Comments about ‘FAIR: Mormon immigration policy considered at conference’

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Published: Sunday, Aug. 14 2011 10:13 p.m. MDT

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oldcougar
Orem, UT

If you're not LDS, then open your minds to others who are seeking reasonable and charitable, rather than draconion, solutions to the immigration problem. If you are LDS, then follow the prophet. Simple.

And whoever suggested the first presidency sign church press releases regarding immigration: If you think the first presidency would allow these messages to continue without their approval, you are truly naive.

BobP
Port Alice, B.C.

I am a child of God . . .

The Pharisees have inundated my beloved church. Thank God that the church's Prophets and Apostles are closer to the truth than these Pharisees.

For the letter killeth and the spirit giveth life.

Yes Indeed, Utah was part of Mexico when my ancestors arrived in 1847.

BoomerJeff
Saint George, UT

Its weird to think that a person here illegally can steal a social security number and work (a felony and identity theft), take a job from a legal American- causing that family to suffer and be unemployed, yet that person is considered "honest" and can enter the temple and serve as your bishop. Those are NOT the values I grew up with, no matter how the Deseret News wants to "spin" it.

Esquire
Springville, UT

@ goitalone, are you with FOX, taking a comment, completely missing the point, then distorting it to advance your own position? No one is saying the INS (now ICE, by the way) is Hitler. The point is that moral conscience sometimes does take precedence over the law of the land. You cite the BOM, and it condemns about unjust laws and rulers. Conscience matters, and life is not black and white. And then you go on to say "the Lamanites will be returned to their lands." Are you saying, then, that the illegal immigration is a fulfillment of this? If so, and you believe in the BOM, then you may very well support illegal immigration. You raise an issue contradictory to your condemnation, proving that you yourself recognize that there are inconsistencies, that life is not black and white, and maybe even that deep down somewhere you acknowledge that conscience has a role instead of mindless following of government authority. By the way, mindless obedience, isn't that the way of totalitarianism?

CJ
Murray, UT

@ BoomerJeff

Your comments are spot on, we have laws for a reason and the 12th article of faith for a reason and the church is flat out wrong on this issue and a majority of members I know are outraged over it. Sorry, but you have to be consistent and many members I know are suffering at the hands of illegals who think the law doesn't apply to them, they shouldn't be blessed by the church for it!

MapleDon
Springville, UT

Unfortunately, the writer's bias shows through.

For instance, all U.S. citizens who oppose illegal immigration are treated as anti-immigration (inferring current application of the Dillingham Commission). Not true.

Illegal immigrants who are LDS are assumed to be "strong, spiritual members." No proof is provided, only opinion.

Other clearly biased (and offensive) comments include "some LDS Church members haul out the 12th Article of Faith and treat it as a solitary religious principle." We have quite a few commandments and another 12 Articles of Faith to consider. If you were to talk to those members of the Church opposing illegal immigration, you might find that this isn't the only principle they hang onto. But you didn't.

"I think the church has tried to stay as neutral as possible..." For those of us who've been following this issue for years, that is simply not true. The Church's media outlets have been and continue to be used to spread support for illegal immigration.

What many of us find offensive is that the Church and its media outlets have opposed civil discourse on this issue and have resorted to half truths, distortions, false accusations, and name calling.

Idaho Coug
Meridian, Idaho

I used to come on this board and talk about LDS history and doctrine that I struggled with. It has only been a week or so since I decided to set all that aside and just be the best person I can be. But I wanted to share something.

I have a very close friend (strong, active LDS) who encouraged me over the years to set those doubts aside and just follow the Prophet. He knew every historical and doctrinal issue I struggled with and yet none were able to chip away at his testimony.

But this immigration issue has almost brought him to the brink of inactivity. For various reasons he has always held a strong resentment for the growing number of illegal immigrants and the damage he believes they have caused society in general as well as him personally.

He is absolutely convinced that the Church's position is driven 100% by the fact that so many members fall under the category of illegal immigrant and that this stance is not in any way revelation.

There was a time when he felt everything the church did was revelation. Until now when it affects something he feels strongly about.

BobP
Port Alice, B.C.

I know of some folks whose SS number was used by illegals that got the tax refunds the illegals couldn't claim.

Clinton King (Ephraim)
Ephraim, UT

Our current immigration laws are the most idiotic set of rules in the history of mankind.

MapleDon
Springville, UT

I keep hearing the call to change existing laws, that the current laws are "broken." Is it because millions of people (non-U.S. citizens) are breaking them and they aren't being enforced?

If immigration laws were changed, would those inclined to cut in line, steal identity, smuggle, all of a sudden stop? I have a hard time believing that.

tobiwan
CENTERVILLE, UT

Let's quote a little more of D&C 134:5.
"We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, WHILE PROTECTED IN THEIR INHERENT AND INALIENABLE RIGHTS by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen THUS PROTECTED, ..."

So we can see that UNCONDITIONAL obedience to laws and judges is not required. Just because it is a law doesn't mean that it is righteous.

D&C 101: 77, 78 tells us that our constitution is meant to protect everyone and that it is up to each man (and woman), because of his agency, to decide whether to obey this law.

"According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of ALL FLESH, according to just and holy principles; That EVERY MAN may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral aagency which I have given unto him, that EVERY MAN may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment."

McFarland
Clovis, Ca

After reading all the comments associated with this article I feel a sense of cognitive dissonance. I have a hard time understanding how individuals are premitted to have temple recommends or get baptized while being in open violation of the law of the land in which they reside. At the same time I have a testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his living prophet. I got to feeling all riled up upon reading the comments to this article. After taking a breath and saying a little prayer in hopes of a sense of peace on issue I realize that it is better for me to trust in God and not the arm of the flesh on this one. I know that President Monson lives the Gospel of Jesus Christ far more perfectly than I do and can there fore be assured that the revelation he is receiving on this issue is in line with the will of God even though I may not intellectually put the two together.

McFarland
Clovis, Ca

Continuation: I feel that the adversary is more than happy to have this be a wedge to those who allow it in their lives, even for only a moment while they read this article. We must align our wills with that of our Father in Heaven if we hope to overcome the adversary to our souls.

DoubtingThomas
Salt Lake City, UT

It is an interesting article, and the comments have varied from supportive to opposed. My opinion is, if we have ten or twenty million illegals now, and amnesty is granted, I can guarantee you that we will get another ten or twenty million illegals, primarily from Mexico. However, it will not take ten years, it will probably take two years.

Our standard of living will suffer, and if we think unemployment is high, just wait for the wave of illegals who will descend on the States. Utah's illegal population will soar.

McFarland
Clovis, Ca

In addition to all of what I mentioned earlier, I live in the heart of agriculture in America. I have lived here since I was six years old. I went to a high school that was predominantly hispanic. I served my mission to the people of Portugal and returned to Sanger/Clovis/Fresno and learned to speak Spanish as it is similar to Portuguese. I am now a Dentist and work in Madera, Ca in a Federally qualified health care clinic that provides medical and dental care for the underserved/low income families. I do so mostly as a means to pay off my school loans thru a loan repayment program. We receive federal grants for farm laborers and other low income populations. I serve the people we are talking about on a daily basis. I love them and they are good people... I also love the ideas the church has put out in the statement on immigration. The only part that I don't understand is the issue of Temple worthiness and/or baptism. That being said, I have a limited understanding of many things and refer to my previous posts for dealing with cognitive dissonance!

Arm of Orion
Cottonwood Heights, UT

ShaunMcC, I think that I may have made a muddied point when it comes to "amnesty." The amnesty that I propose will be to allow the immigrants to become permanent residents and then on to full citizenship, should they so choose.

The amnesty would only be extended to those that filed the paper work in a decent amount of time, to be a permanent resident. After the deadline is passed then they go back to illegal status under the new laws. As such employers and Public Service announcements should be made to be sure that the enitre populace has knowledge of the new deal. That way no one can say, "I never knew."

The purpose for the amnesty and the filing of paper work is to be able to keep track of everyone and then to get taxes off of them as well. Furthermore this amnesty will only be offered to those that have not been convicted of a felony.

This plan will work if every step is accomplished in the order outlined. Secure borders, then amnesty, then new laws. That is the logical progression.

Lax'n the Rockies
Highlands Ranch, CO

It's easy to blame the inept politicians, the greedy business owners but we have only ourselves to blame. It is "we" the people who demanded 99 cent hamburgers, $5 lawn care and below minimum wage nannies and janitorial services. We are the demand and we received exactly what we asked for, low-cost labor that satisfied our wants. We are our own problem!

We can say others should solve the problem with laws, declarations, and defense of our American culture, but until there is real reform the abuse will continue. If people are looking for real solutions from politics it will require real welfare reform (eliminate entitlements) and tax reform (everyone pays something.) Since this would require even the free-loading "legal" citizens of this country to hop off the free-loader bus as well as immigrants; legal and illegal, to contribute something, it will not happen because there is no longer any moral or political will to do the expedient in this country. Everybody is acting in their own best interest.

Since the LDS church's mission is promoting the salvation of individuals and family, legal immigration status is of lesser concern in the eternal perspective of the leaders.

Robroy
Murray, utah

I too have a problem with people now commonly making the statement that the Mormon pioneers entered Utah illegally. There was no offical Utah in July of 1847. It was a land "claimed" by Mexico. There were no Mexican immigration laws governing the territories that made up the future state of Utah. There were no immigration laws broken. There were no Mexican identities stolen. There was no taking of Mexican resources. There were no permanent Mexican settlements. A mere 8 months aftr the Mormons came to Utah, February of 1848, this disputed land officially became part of U.S. Territory via the Treaty of Gualalupe Hidalgo.

CFBFan
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO

It will be interesting to see how many members of the church will end up losing their their testimonies over something of little importance when viewed with an eternal perspective. The current prophet will always be more important that the previous ones. The last General Conference will always be more relevant than ancient scripture. This is a concept that many LDS church members have had absolutely no problem with until now. I was an ardent supporter of exporting all illegal immigrants as any one until recently. I still struggle with the ramifications of what this policy will bring but I find peace in the simple phrase ... "follow the prophet."

momomom
AMERICAN FORK, UT

in regards to the "obey the law until you get it changed" crowd -
Our nation would be nowhere without civil disobedience to irrational laws at its founding. Also, Christ taught this principle when he stopped the adulteress from being stoned, as the irrational law demanded.
I understand that immigration has become so complicated that we do not in effect have the open door policy that allowed my ancestors to come in by simply applying and registering with the state. There are too many preventative hurdles and hoops; it stops equal access to the country and inadvertently encourages people to break the law. If legal immigration were in fact accessible to the poor, uneducated and otherwise, rational and even religious illegal immigrants that we see now would not criminalize themselves by breaking the law in order to improve their standard of living.

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