I agree with the author on both points but am not sure the connection he draws
between them is valid or rational.Very unexpectedly, I found myself
dealing with an awful lot of mostly incestuous child sexual abuse and its
lasting consequences in children and adults in my law practice in Texas. I met
most of these after they had attempted suicide as young children, teens, and
adults, as a result of such abuse. I discovered one other client
was a polygamist but he never identified himself as any branch of Mormon, nor is
he known to and identified by any of the Mormons I know here, so I dont know.
I was in an auto accident in which the driver did not know she was a later
plural wife and the liability insurance didnt cover my three weeks in traction.
The mostly commercial equalization of children is a terrible thing
and causes real, lasting, psychological problems. The U. S. Supreme Court went
completely off the wall when it held in 1980 that commercial nude lap dancing,
or any other form of sexual conduct for that matter, was covered by the First
This article does a good job to take something most everyone can yet agree upon
as an abuse of young women by the monster Warren Jeffs and to show that our
mainstream culture is also in a collective sense being a monster towards our
young women. While it may not be a girl isolated in a cloistered and secretive
group with pressure from parents and friends to please the cult's leader in the
guise of fulfilling some higher purpose God has ordained for them regardless of
their personal feelings on the matter, that "spirit" or
"attitude" that looks upon our young women as sex objects will find
some way to get at them. Likely it will show up by the kid next door or the
really charismatic guy a few years older than them that is skilled at pushing
all the right buttons. Because there is so much focus and attention on women as
sex objects, all of our young women are being isolated and our culture is
becoming a cult just as eager to exploit them collectively as Warren was to do
his exploits. I applaud the author of this article for his points.
Wow, there is a big difference between an kids show and a church leader ordering
them to have sex with him.
I don't think my 2g-grandfather, John Woolley, and his son, Calvin, had child
abuse in mind when they decided to reject the direction of their prophet and go
off on their own to continue the practice of plural marriage in a secret
society. Their ultimate successor, Warren Jeffs, is the eventual, tragic
product of human selfishness in a closed community that promoted secrecy and
strict obedience to arbitrary leaders.Let's keep that dangerous
pattern in mind as we observe both religious and political groups who prefer to
keep all their operations in secret and attempt to wield arbitrary domination
over their "subjects" as they promote their selfish, private
Jeffs operated for years on the border of Utah and Arizona before he finnaly saw
any trouble from the law. It took Texans not blinded by a poligamist
history to prosecute and stop him. So if you want to blame someone for letting
it get this far we may want to look inward. Texans didn't shy away from
investigating him and may have even stepped over a few lines to find out the
truth. Az and UT didn't do that right away.Jeffs was nefarious
because he used religion and 1800's young marriage customs to facilitate his
"exploits". In no time in history would his behavior in taking 75 very
young brides by arrainged marriage be considered proper or good. He will pay and
Perhaps a little clarification of my comments is in order.Warren
Jeffs didn't get half of what he deserved. I am no apologist for polygamists who
prey on the weak and unferaged.I simply think our society is
hypocritical in their approach to lifestyles they will accept. I don't care what
it cost Charlie Sheen to support his "habits". I really care what Hugh
Hefner does behind his closed doors. I just find it rediculous that
we praise and promote promiscuous behavipor on one hand and condemn it on
another. I find it unbelievable that we promote posturing children as sensual
adults and prostitute them for one kind of gain and then seem surprised when
society in general begins to turn a blind eye the the results of that posturing.
Smoe of you missed my point and Evenson's as well.
Mr. Jeffs cultural imprint doesn't spring from modern pop culture. But from 19th
century America, [in that he felt it was okay to have relations with young
girls], and more particulary from 19th century Mormonism, and the Bible in that
he felt it was okay to to have more than one wife.
Thank you jill17. I think everyone else missed the point of the article. He was
not blamimg Jeff's behavior on society at all. Re-read the article if you took
that out of it the first time.
The author wasn't making the arguement, blaming the sexulized culture for warren
jeffs actions. He was rather making a comparison, knowing all or most people
agree with jeffs monstrous acts, can't we see the subte, yet also monstrous acts
we are doing as a society by sexualizing young girls? It was a comparison, not
an arguement about one causing another. And he emphasized that jeffs acts are
beyond horrible and that he got what he deserved. He was just making a valid
point--that as a society we are also guilty of over sexualizing children;
specifically girls, and, even if its not rape, its not okay. And rather than
the majority of these comments seeing this valid point, they're instead arguing
about hugh hefner. When are we going to join together and realize we need to put
a stop to this?! And although pop culture may have not have created the
monster jeffs, does that mean it isn't creating other monsters? That other
pedophiles are not being inticed? And are we not all being affected, even in the
least bit, to think of women (and girs) as only sex objects, as soon as they're
Isn't the purpose of "Toddlers and Tiaras" to hold up this ugly little
corner of society and give those looking in a chance to declare to themselves
"Well, I'm not perfect, but at least I haven't put my four year old in a
beauty contest"? It's hard to see how these crazy (mostly Texas) moms could
serve as a role model for anyone. People watch it, but it's like buying a ticket
to the races, hoping to see a crash or two. I guess creepiness sells.
hes locked up and will NEVER see the light of day again and thats all I care
about. ok now throw the key away just as far as you can throw it .. oh yeah love
the Bubba comment
Thank you Mr. Evansen for writing this article. It is good to see a
counterbalance to the flood of sexualized images of children we all are forced
to see if we choose to consume media in virtually any form.
Of course the key issue with Mr. Jeffs is not the number of his
"wives" but their age.Had they all been adults and had
this not taken place in an insular culture (where true choice even for adults
might be debatable) I think most of society would have responded with a
collective yawn.As to Jay's larger point. I think most folks (LDS
or not) recognize that there is a societal sickness in the sexualization of
girls. But while many of us recognize this in one area, we miss (and accept it)
in another. Thus, sexualization is creeping in (pun intended) at an ever
younger age.We need to be extra-vigilant here and forcefully reject
anything that moves us toward sexualization of our girls and boys. We need to
carefully examine if something truly is harmless or whether it simply further
inures us to early sexualization.Being extra careful here is a must
for ourselves, our families, and our culture. If we slide even a bit toward
sexualizing our young, we inexorably also slide toward the idea that these
children can consent to sex.That is a door we must not allow to open
even a crack.
Modern culture has nothing to do with this. They lived in the 1800's. The
little girls didn't dress provocatively. You are letting Jeffs of
the hook by blaming our 'modern' culture. Our culture didn't turn him into a
pedophile. His sick narcissistic 'I'm special 'cause I talk to God' personality
@ Jas Binns Goitalone wasn't referring to Jeffs or the FLDS people. He was
referring to a different family that has been featured on some cable TV show. I
forgot the name of it. This family is now being charged for bigamy, because they
will now openly admit that they are polygamists.The point that his is
making is that this family are just polygamists. They don't marry young or abuse
anyone. They are just like any normal family except that they are polygamists.
Where as Charlie Sheen is basically doing the same thing, only without the
marriage part. One is going to court, the other is receiving millions.
That's the point made.
Warren Jeffs is a monster. Pop culture, much of which features an 'off' switch,
had nothing to do with it. A more reasonable argument would have been that
warren jeffs is a monster, and religion isn't much better.
ClarkKent, what do you mean? There aren't any "LDS polygamists". The
LDS Church banned polygamy over 100 years ago.
Jas Binns & Spot Light:The orignal post compared Hugh and
Charlie to the polygamist family that except for bigamy have violated no laws is
being prosecuted for polygamy. The comparision of prosecuting consenting adults
who enter into polygamy and how society treats and regards Mr Heffner and
Charlie is a very valid one and does infact point out real duplicity. It is very clear to anyone who reads the post thoroughly that the comparision
was NOT between Jeffs and Hefner/Charlie
Go it alone, You need to remember that there are problems
with polygamy even if the women are all of age. When some greedy ego maniac like
Warren Jeffs has 78 wives that means that 77 men have none! It also wreaks havoc
on the gene pool to have one guy father hundreds of children! Contrary to what
both polygamists and advocates of same sex marriage think the traditional
marriage of one man and one woman is the type of union most conducive to the
health and happiness of both individuals and society; that ts why we have the
laws we do!
As much as the DN may want to deny it, polygamy is part of the Church's history.
It can atone for it all it likes, but it opened Pandora' box. Blaming
"popular culture" is a cop-out and a sad attempt at a distraction.
Whatever happened to "personal responsibility"? Or does
that only count for poor people who are easy to demonize?
There is sick, Sick and then SICK! Jeffs falls in the latter. I think life in
prison doesn't even begin to pay his debt to society but it's the best we can
do.If there's any justice in the world Jeffs will run into a few
Jeffs is a monster.
Should all polygamists who took child brides be deserving of the same treatment?
Or are we going to make excuses for LDS polygamists. Are you willing to use
the same adjectives to describe them as you use with Jeffs. If not, why not?
Jeffs stated long ago while commiting the crimes that if the world knew what he
was doing they would hang him from the highest tree. He didn't quite
get the highest tree but he'll be up there for the rest of his life.
Modern Hollywood has an open and stated agenda of promoting substance abuse and
every form of immorality. Indeed, Modern Hollywood has done everything it can
to glorify indiscriminate and wanton sexuality.Popular culture has
degenerated into a moral abyss that is dragging the Country into complete moral
decay. As a result, rates of crime, addiction, divorce, and broken families
have increased phenomenally.If popular culture is not reformed,
diabolical criminals like Warren Jeff's will multiply like cockroaches. If any
of you parents truly care about your children, you will banish the evil
influences of the entertainment industry from your home immediately.
go it alone"Charlie Sheen lives with two porn stars and his
children, and his lifestyle brings him fame and fortune."Umm,
Chuckles was shoveling out about 150,000 MONTHLY to pay for his ex'es and porn
hookers. OOPS he lost the hookers but still has the exes.Charlie
Sheen is no excuse for Warren or any other Polygamist to misbehave. People in
their right mind know this.And as much as I despise Chuckles, and he
did go after younger women, I dont think he went after children.
I have to say, this sounds like a press release from shortcreek, "evil
world of gentiles" and all that.Nahh, Warren was extra evil,
and he cant blame it on the world. Not buying it.Sorry.
I doubt Jeffs nor his followers watch cable TV to participate in the sick
popular culture in which Evensen speaks. Instead, Jeffs led a very closed off,
closed-minded society where he expected complete obedience. I'm not seeing the
pop culture connection.too much with Jeffs. In Jeff's case (and that of the
FDLS church), this might be a case where the people are better off being of the
It's almost amusing to see the great lengths to which the writer went to
distinguish Jeffs from popular culture be completely ignored by posters.
Lehi's comments to his son, Jacob in 2 Nephi 2 says it all. There
are many "monsters" out there. Warren Jeffs is just one of them.
Those who look the other way when children are hurt share fully in the crime.
Pedophiles are a plenty. They don't even hide in the dark back rooms anymore but
are gathering followerss at every turn.They thrive on the porn sites and
wet their appetites but slowly they begin to need moreand soon they are acting
upon their sick perversion. Warren Jeffs acted upon his desires through the
disguise of religion. His addiction became so large that he began to convince
his followers that it is was acceptable to God. Very sad and morally and legally
wrong.But I agree with the fact that Hugh Hefner as acquired his following
and projects the image of one nice happy guy. But his justice falls under the
same category. Perversion, addiction and degregation of another person. Hugh may
have girls that of age but they are totally under the influence of a very
deprived individual.Evil is Evil and whatever face it appears on it is
criminal, it is sin. Warren Jeffs may serve his time on earth which
that time will end but all those who are using women/little girls as objects and
use them to fulfill and satisfy their own gratification will face the eternities
which has no end.
Since when have women been thought of as equal human beings? I'd like to know
when this small blip in history occurred so that I can learn more about it. I am
not even 30 and yet I've been told that I'm past my expiration date, ugly if I
don't weigh a certain amount etc... However I don't think you can compare Warren
Jeffs to this, he is still way out on the fringe of society, for awhile anyway.
The way our society is headed polygamy will be acceptable just as gay marriage
will be soon, you know, "as long as it isn't hurting anybody."
Goitalone you think hypocrisy by comparing Warren S. Jeffs to Charlie Sheen or
Hugh Hefner? Warren was convicted of both aggravated sexual assault of a 12 and
15 year old girls. Jeffs is married to 78 wives, 24 of whom were under the age
of 17 years. Plus, Jeffs "Bad Acts" included raping a 7 year old
female cousin Shuria Jeffs and sodomizing a 7 year old male cousin Brent Jeffs.
Your comparison and equating of comparable moral corruption is laughable. How
come such monsterous sex crimes are dismissed as just like the real world? I do
see decided hypocrisy in your evaluation. Today, the Royal Mounty Police have
openned an investigation into victims sex trafficked as minors across the border
to be celestial sealed to Warren Jeffs then they were sequestered upon FLDS
Church enclaves. The two girls that he was convicted of raping have vanished.
Don't recall anything approaching this occurring at the Playboy Mansion or
Lepers used to have to warn people that they were coming, i.e. ring bells or
shout unclean, unclean. However, spiritual lepers get away scott free, with no
Most of the world, or developing and educated parts of the world, are becoming
more and more secular. Little sins here and there are becoming less and less
important compared to what your overall life brings to the table. Be happy,
don't hurt nobody, and you're fine. Besides, if God exists ... he forgives! So
live your life and enjoy yourself without hurting anybody else. Not a fan of
little girls being exploited (or exploiting themselves), but this isn't a
Christian owned country. Let people do as they wish and leave them alone, and
they'll do the same for you.
Parable of the sower seems applicable here. Sow the wind and reap the
whirlwind.Jeffs is a pedophile masquerading as a theological leader.
Popes, priests and pastors need not get sanctimonious here, but I do find it
interesting that a polygamist family was recently shown on a national TV show.
They were not on public assistance. The children attended public schools. In all
other respects, they seemed inclined to practice their creed without
interferring with anyone else being harmed, but they are being prosecuted for
bigamy.At the same time. Hugh Hefner lives with multiple women in
his mansion, is lauded with a "reality" TV show. Charlie Sheen lives
with two porn stars and his children, and his lifestyle brings him fame and
fortune.Can anyone besides me see hypocracy here? Evenson will get
blasted by some on these threads, but he raises some very valid dichotomies and
Those at the back of the train like to point a finger at those at the front and
sneer, "Look where he's going!"
The "dance" companies and academies that teach erotic moves to girls
as young as 5 and 6 year olds with accompanying costumes are just as guilty.
The culture and mothers that encourage this are on every corner in Utah
I'm just grateful that the Utah Public Education system isn't getting the blame
on this one. I'm just saying.