Y Grad/Y Dad:Thank you for your input. I would like my kids to go
to BYU (I got a late start in having children, so my first college age child
won't be for about 6 more years), but I have been worried that they could not
have a good wholesome experience like I had more than 30 years ago, because of
the changed environment. Your comments give me hope.People
misunderstand my stance on enforcement of the BYU honor code. I'm all for the
honor code. I think it creates a great atmosphere on the BYU campus. I would
just like to see the BYU administration take more of a rehabilitative approach
to enforcing the honor code than a punitive approach. Especially for athletes
who only have four years to try to make it to the pros (if they have enough
talent), any disruption in their playing career can be catastrophic. Also, if a
student leaves BYU and tries to transfer somewhere else (due to honor code
violations), there is a loss of credit hours and a disruption in continuity of
completing an academic program that results in a significant increased expense
in obtaining a college degree.
Big Daddy Utah: I think that Brandon wanted it handled just the way it was. If
not, if would have been handled different. He was not trying to hide anything.
He manned up, took it in stride, and it ended up being a positive thing for him,
his family, his girl friend, and BYU. There have been other similar cases, and
none were ever handled the way this one was. Everyone was a winner!
Unfortunatly, the honor code is a two-edge sword. There are students who honor
it and have a great experience and others who don't. I had roommates who didn't
honor the code and would not confess it. They would hide it in fear of being
kicked out of school. They would delay the repentence process until they were
finished with school. It was my thought that kids should have free agency to
make the decisions they wanted. I always thought of the gospel as my honor code.
If kids are mature enough to voluntarily go to class, they should be wise enough
to know the difference between right and wrong. Unfortunatly, kids will make
mistakes, code or nor code. IMO, the honor code is more like satan's plan. The
gospel is enough byu!
Draft dumbieYour point is well taken. Ironic that the athletes who
we all think might get a pass or special treatment, actually do recieve closer
scrutiny. However, I think it unfair to blame that entirely on the university.
Certainly BYU has a concern to NOT appear to give favorable treatment to a
student just because he or she is an athlete, but I beleive the difference
mainly amounts to making a public announcement, something that if they didn't
do, would be done for them and in a manner not of their choosing.I
also had a great experience at BYU, once I moved out of the rich kids apartments
and into a basement on the south side of campus. We probably overlapped - I was
there from Jim McMahon through Robbie Bosco and Ty Detmer.To date,
three of my four have attended BYU and had a different but equivalent
experience. There too, they took my advice from the outset, lived in a more
humble apartment setting and had a tremendous experience. I do think what has
increase is an elitist, "richer than thou" atmosphere, but increasing
wealth throughout the church in general may be our greatest trial.
Y Grad/Y Dad:Your "logical conclusion" leaves out one
important factual consideration--namely, that a high profile male student
athlete is more likely to have the media snoop into and publish the details of
his honor-code-violation suspension when BYU suspends him from the team and
makes the announcement in the middle of the season than is a non-athlete
student.In fact, based on the extremely small level of experience I
have had with the honor code--which is second hand information from some
students that did have a problem with the honor code--it appears that the honor
code has been applied much more harshly to high profile student athletes on
several occasions, than it has been applied to non-athlete students.Finally, even though I had a great experience at BYU in the late 70's and
early 80's, I don't think the experience is the same today as it was then, and I
don't know if I want to put my child into the elitist, "holier than
thou" atmosphere that seems to permeate the BYU campus today.
Draft dumbieMy I have your permission to follow your thought to it's
logical conclusion?If you would be concerned for your child and the
honor code if he was a recruitable athlete, would you be equally concerned for
your child even if he was NOT an athlete?If your concerns are
reasonable, then could we not assume that the majority of LDS parents would feel
as you do?If that were the case, then BYU would have no problem
accomodating all of the applicants who did apply.And yet we see that
this is not the case.What would you conclude from this exercise?
Fred T | 2:28 p.m. Aug. 4, 2011 PHOENIX, AZ "calls from moms
and dads....because they want him in that environment...what you really want is
the kid wanting to be in that environment.This is not unlike the LDS
parents wanting to send their rebellious little Johnny or Suzie to BYU to
"straighten" up. They don't...."I quoted you because
that's the same idea I got from this article too. My guess is Coach Doman
realizes this too, which is why he hedges by saying he's not sure it will change
how many non-LDS they actually sign. This article was a bit one-sided. It may be
a side I agree with, but it did seem like a homer job.
Draft dumbie | 3:37 p.m. Aug. 4, 2011 Farmington, UTLooks like BYU
got the exact result they wanted from "sticking to their principles"
in the manner in which they handled the Brandon Davies matter--a lot of positive
PR.-----------------I am 100% certain that "PR" had
0% influence on the Davies situation.
troutman | 5:25 p.m. Aug. 4, 2011 Washington, UT "Last
report I heard was there are as many missionaries not serving their alloted time
as there is going out!"===Ummmm, could you cite your
source?The way you phrased your statement would lead one to believe
that 100% of missionaries leaving are coming home early. Is that your
assertion?Either way, I have no idea where you recieved your
information, but you seemed so proud to be sharing it, that you ended it with an
exclamation point.===Brandon Davies is going to be a
stud-athlete, and has shown he has a solid character. I have no doubt that
during this whole situation he has learned more about life, and being
successful, than he ever dreamed when he signed up for BYU and the Honor Code.
"Big Daddy Utah" would have Brandon run and hide from the
situation, claiming he was "paraded" to the entire country.Instead, Davies decided to "man-up" and grow from his lesson in
"real-life".If the kid keeps it up, the sky is the limit.
To: troutmanYou said, "Last report I heard was there are as
many missionaries not serving their alloted time as there is going out!"Really? If I understand you, that report basically said that not one
missionary is completing his two year mission?Could you give us the
link to that report? It must be a gem.
The way things have been going lately in the Church, (and BYU is part of the
Church whether some want to admit it or not), soon all players will have to have
a temple recommend in order to play there! Last report I heard was
there are as many missionaries not serving their alloted time as there is going
out!Is the BAR-raised to high?
This is a good thing for BYU and its mission to help represent the Church.
What a blessing it is for BYU that such a thing occurred with Brandon Davies.
Maybe after his college career is over they will make him the Recruiting
Looks like BYU got the exact result they wanted from "sticking to their
principles" in the manner in which they handled the Brandon Davies
matter--a lot of positive PR.I wonder what those non-LDS parents
will be saying if their child makes a mistake and violates the honor code, and
gets treated the same way Brandon Davies was treated--and, if the timing is a
little bit different and the violation happens later in their child's career, he
has his athletic and/or academic career seriously hampered as a result. Even
though I'm a BYU alum, an avid BYU fan, and a devout Mormon, I'm not
presumptuous enough to think that my child would never make a mistake concerning
the honor code, and therefore (if my child was actually a recruitable college
athlete), I would think twice before I would encourage him to attend BYU as an
athlete, with the present policies in place concerning the manner in which the
BYU honor code is enforced.
calls from moms and dads saying they wanted us to recruit their son because they
want him in that environmentThis is fine, but what you rteally want
is the kid wanting to be in that environment.This is not unlike the
LDS parents wanting to send their rebellious little Johnny or Suzie to BYU to
"straighten" up. They don't. They rebel more and go off campus or to
other Utah cities for their "fun". Saw it in the 70's and I'm sure it
is the same today.
@Big Daddy UtahStrange you are so concerned about how the Brandon
Davies thing was handled by BYU. They did exactly what you said they should.Maybe your perception is wrong...afterall Brandon Davies himself does
not appear to have a big problem with it so why should you? My guess is he
probably has a better concept of what really happened vs your warped perception
via the media. Brandon Davies appears to be doing the right thing
which makes him all the more impressive of a young man to me. He has nothing to
be embarrassed about at this point.
Re: junkmailI guess if you make the assumption that interest would
grow at a similar rate in LDS athletes. I have always just assumed that BYU can
get into the door of about 99% of the LDS homes. In my opinion, they won't
receive much additional interest from LDS athletes because it is pretty much at
maximum capacity. I would assume that interest from non LDS players would grow
at a higher rate. It isn't a big deal, but under my assumption that non LDS
interest would be growing, and LDS interest would be basically the same
(automatically one of their top choices), that you would see the makeup of the
team change unless the team feels that it is important to have a higher makeup
of LDS players.
@Big Daddy UtahIf you really paid attention to the whole Brandon
Davies situation and were not just looking to find fault with BYU you would know
the way you suggest they should have handled it is EXACTLY the way they DID
handle it. The AD's office simply announced that Brandon Davies was suspended
from the team for violation of the school's honor code. That's it. They did not
give any specific details on the nature of the violation nor the identity of the
girlfriend, and they repeatedly declined to comment when asked by the media for
further details, citing the privacy of all those involved. Of course the media
was able to find out what happened by interviewing other people outside of the
BYU administration and publicize it all over the country because of the intense
interest surrounding BYU at the time, but it is not fair to fault BYU for that.
No matter how BYU had chosen to handle it there was always going to be those,
like yourself, who would criticize them so it was a no-win situation for them,
but the majority of response to the way they handled it has been positive.
@RagnarI doubt there is any sort of quota as you suggest, although
it is an LDS institution whose mission is primarily to provide secular and
spiritual education for members of the LDS faith, and the athletics programs are
designed to support that mission, as well as provide a missionary tool for the
LDS church overall. Having said all that, I would expect there is some desire to
recruit *mostly* LDS athletes, though certainly there has been and always will
be a place for non-LDS athletes - many of whom actually end up joining the
church as a result (see Ty Detmer, Curtis Brown, etc).
Isn't it amazing that morals win out in the end? For all the nay-sayers in the
Brandon Davies suspension it's one more example that the good guys will win. It
might not be on the field or court, but good will win out.
Ragnar,Presumably, as the pool of interested non-LDS students
increases with more exposure, so would the pool of interested LDS students. The
pie will remain the same size, and the number of available ingredients are
increasing at similar rates, there's no reason to expect that the makeup of the
pie will change significantly. Obviously, BYU doesn't accept every
non-LDS student athlete who wants to play here. No reason to expect that to
@Big DaddyUmm, that IS all that BYU said. They never went into
details. It was other students in the know who disclosed the nature of the
violation (possibly the girl herself).
@ big daddyif you recall correctly then you know that ALL the school said
was that brandon davies broke the honor code. that is all that was said by them.
the media is who brought everything else out.
I have no problem with your honor code. It is your school and you can have all
the rules you want. What I did not agree with was the way you paraded Brandon
Davies personal life to then entire country. You could have simply said Brandon
Davies broke the honor code and is no longer a student at BYU, case closed. If
I was Brandon (and his girlfriend) I would run as far as I could from your
"I don't know that the amount of LDS to non-LDS kids we will sign will
change significantly," Doman explained. "But the pool of non-LDS kids
who are looking for a faith-based institution with high academics has increased
significantly for us."Why wouldn't the number of LDS to non-LDS
signings go up then? Does BYU want to stick to a member quota on the team or
something? Are the non LDS kids not necessarily great athletes?Don't bring
up Crowton in your response. I think what he did was down play the honor code;
what this article is arguing, is that more non members want to attend BYU
BECAUSE of the honor code and standards. So why won't those kids be more
accepted?Honestly, this is in no way a knock on BYU. I am just curious as
to why they wouldn't expect the makeup of the team to change with the change in
the makeup of interested students?
BYU -- The nice kid that your parents always wanted you to bring home, but you'd
rather go out with the flashy sports guy (Ohio State or USC), or the
unintelligent bad-boy (Utah).
Wait a minute! Does this mean that not all college atheltes want to act like
hoodlums, drunks and sex addicts? I guess there is hope for the human race after
all! Isn't it great that there is still a school where higher standards are
willingly accepted. embraced and appreciated?
Lest anyone mistake or distort our intentions, Coach Mendenhall is looking for
individuals who are committed to conforming to high standards. The fact that
there are non-LDS athletes that fit the mold is pleasant, but it is not a
surprise. The fact that some are excellent athletes is just that much
better.Athletes, LDS and otherwise, who are willing to conform will
not only stay in school, but also be more likely to sacrifice self for team. As
opposed to the self-centered sense of entitlement that so frequently accompanies
the greatest of the athletic capabilities, team unity can be the equalizing
factor. When your opponent is bigger, stronger, faster, individual and team
disciple can still win the day.Especially when the margin of
difference grows incrimentally smaller.
BYU's unique environment and the exposure with it's partnership with ESPN will
no doubt attract some non-member kids who share the same values. But, if they
start out with a bang and become wildly successful, then who knows? Their
recruiting possibilities just might be unlimited. The future is very
bright for both Cougar and Ute football! Go Cougs! and please don't
underestimate Coach W and the boys in red! Go Utes too! Kick some
Pac 12 tails and show them what Utah football is like! And don't settle for just
sniffing the Rose. Pluck the dang thing and bring it home. Imagine how sweet
that'll be if you can still do it after a shellacking by those unathletic sunday
school boys down south on 9/17, heh? LOL, j/k guys! I love the Utes too...I
just love the Cougs a bit more!
Don't overlook: The balance of this whole equation has to include the sudden
appearance of some highly profiled "LDS" names being brandished on the
national stage--escalating late last year til now--all coinciding with the
sudden surge in recruits knocking on the Y's door. A considerable number of
Americans have overcome prejudice and pride or at least are beginning to get
over the 'Mormon' stumbling-block/issue. Names of especially current
prominence, who've recently given further definition to the face of the LDS
faith of course have to include Romney, Huntsman, Beck (Glenn, who has millions
of enthusiastic, mostly non-LDS followers); add to this current mix the old
trusted names of Dale Murphy, Steve Young, Trevor Matich, (gulp) Harry Reid,
Orrin Hatch, and numerous others, all have to be having some influence in the
thinking of non-LDS athletes and their parents...
It sounds like Coach Mendenhall has the right perspective, by staying with the
current ratio of LDS vs non-LDS players. I think that could have been the
undoing of Crowton. He may have tried to increase the number of non-LDS player
too much. We can only hope that the non-LDS players quality does increase.
Recruiting is really an inexact science to say the least. Physical tools don't
always translate into superior play on the field. But, whether the quality of
non-LDS players increases or not, if BYU holds onto their high standards for the
students/athletes, things will go well for the University as a whole.
CA reader: Yes they did. No one should doubt that BYU will handle any
similar situation the right way. Doing the right thing will always be more
important to BYU than winning or getting a recruit etc.
Cool! Who would have guessed that BYU could attract athletes from
all faiths with great values to play for the Cougars? Oh, that's right, Bronco
TJshhh, you're killing the theory that being a stellar athlete and
having high morale values are incompatible
Gee, I guess BYU handled the whole thing correctly after all.
"We've been receiving phone calls from moms and dads saying they wanted us
to recruit their son because they want him in that environment". The Davies
Issue, both the way the school handled it and Davies high charactar shown in his
continued commitment to BYU have increased interest in BYU from both LDS and
Non-LDS athletes. Guess the Yners were about as wrong about this as anyone
could have been.Honor, Integrity and Class. Gotta love BYU.
Anyone remember the 1994 movie "Blue Chips"? Nick Nolte plays a
college basketball coach who is under pressure to win. J.T. Walsh plays
"Happy", a booster who is paying the players under the table. It's
rated PG13, and stars Shaq, Anfernee Hardaway, even Bob Cousy makes an
appearance. I don't understand lecherous boosters either. They sound
like creepers. Unfulfilled high school athletes trying to smooze college kids in
order to increase their self worth. Wanting their phone numbers, texting them,
etc. It comes off as desperate and bizarre behavior. Do the athletes
a favor by donating your money and cheering them on...from a distance.