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Census: More gay households in Utah

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  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    July 30, 2011 6:13 a.m.

    For those of you that seem to think I'm "uninformed" because I live is Massachusetts you may want to know that I'm a pioneer stock, 5th generation member and lived in Salt Lake and surrounding communities for 50 years. It's the population that hides their head in the sand and refuses to acknowledge the real world actually exists that are uninformed.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2011 11:01 p.m.

    This country was built on two premises-

    1- As rights are given from our Creator, therefore inherent- government cannot justify infringing these inherent rights. | Without this premise any right could be taken away. Governments do not GIVE us rights. We create government to protect rights.

    2- Government should not abridge the freedom to worship/practice religion, to speak freely, etc.

    -------

    Anti-religion doesn't work under our constitution.

    This country was designed for a religious people. John Adams wasn't full of nonsense when he talked of this. Whether it's guy 1, 2, or 3 - No one has more claim to truth than anyone else.

    Joseph Smith essentially said- 'no one can take the claim 'you are wrong' as justification for actions against them.' in the King Follett Discourse.

    ---

    -We govern and refuse to recognize gay marriage. We do not prevent gays from marrying privately, like polygamists do.

    Individual freedom is preserved. We have prevented no

    -We democratically govern but refuse to allow religious beliefs in politics.

    This destroys equal representation and removes any possibility for democracy.

    ---

    Being irreligious is one thing, but being anti-religious is only destructive. Anti-'others beliefs' is ignorant and a refusal to seek truth.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2011 8:11 p.m.

    Pagan:

    "And I do not want to prevent anyone from excercising their right to believe."

    The problem with the LGBT movement is that this simply isn't true of what you guys are trying to do. Consider the following.

    Guy #1 believes gay marriage is wrong based on empirical evidence. (science, biology, anatomy, etc)

    Guy #2 believes gay marriage is wrong based on religious beliefs.

    Guy #3 believes gay marriage is an equal right.

    Your oft-stated premise, that religious reasons shouldn't affect others, etc. is misguided. We believe that we shouldn't impose on others. But state-recognition does not HAVE to impose on private, individual freedoms whatsoever.

    If you want to disqualify guy 2 because of the reasons he uses, then you are limiting free speech, freedom to worship, and so on.

    I've said it before and I will again, there are absolutely NO rules requiring the citizen to 'leave certain beliefs out of the voting booth upon entering'.

    Refusal of a national religion or fostering government support religion is one thing... but what many forget is that I have JUST as many non-religious reasons why gay marriage is wrong.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    'Both groups are exercising their right to believe as they chose and follow it up with actions.' - dlw7 | 10:53 a.m. July 29, 2011

    And I do not want to prevent anyone from excercising their right to believe.

    However, when claiming that those against gay marriage 'they don't throw rocks'...?

    Please keep in mind those very same examples of 'excercising their right to believe and follow it up with action.'

    While not violent action, which is good, and perfectly legal, which is also fine, you cannot claim both at the same time. That those against gay rights are 'doing no harm'...

    when 1) gay marriage WAS legal in CA before Prop 8 and 2) LGBT persons never claimed to adhere to those Mormon belief's in question.

    It is true that LGBT are also vocal, but please, can you give me an example of a LGBT group factually PREVENTING a....

    temple wedding?

    Straight wedding?

    Also that justice..? is NOT the norm. Ergo Hate Crime legislation.

    Matthew Shepard, Larmie, WY. Pistol whipped to death, the initial charges...?

    Burglary.

    DJ Bell? HE was first charged, with kidnapping. From...

    his attackers.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    July 29, 2011 11:07 a.m.

    Pagan- You're conveniently ignoring crucial parts of these stories.

    Direct quote from the last article you cited - "Both teens came from broken homes, but King (the boy shot) was the aggressor by making unwanted sexual advances to McInerney and other boys, Wippert said.

    "He did this out of heat of passion," Wippert said of McInerney. "These were two troubled young men and this was a tragedy."

    Gays are not always the only victim in these stories. Please be fair in your characterization. I'm not advocating killing as a way of dealing with these distressing situations. Kids need to learn how to deal with their angst in positive ways. Adults need to help these kids, not fuel their hatred for each other.

    For every article you cite, there are just as many of the destruction caused by gays. There is domestic violence in gay relationships, there are children abused by gay and lesbian parents, there are innocent victims on both sides of the fence. Again, read Crafting Gay Children.

    Rather than pointing fingers of blame, we should be harshly judging only our own hearts then try to see the perspective of the other side and respond with compassion.

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    July 29, 2011 10:53 a.m.

    Pagan; If you read newspapers around the country, there are many violent deaths that do not involve gay people. In fact violent deaths among gay people would only be a small percentage of those who die. At least in the incident in Salt Lake the people who were responsible were convicted and punished. It would seem that there was justice for the two gay people who were attacked in that case and I am sure that is the norm rather than the exception. I read all of your comments and feel your anger and flustration with the Mormon Church and Mormon people in general because they are vocal in their opposition to gay situations. By the same token, it is the gay men and women who march, file suits, and voice their opinions most vocally. Both groups are exercising their right to believe as they chose and follow it up with actions.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2011 10:20 a.m.

    dlw7 | 9:55 a.m.,

    I am not trying to demonize all who are religious. There are many good and decent people who believe differently, and factually DO allow others to live in peace.

    But do not pretend those are the vocal minority.

    Not x4 months ago we finally had people sentanced for breaking into a gay mans home (DJ Bell) and cracking his partners eye socket. These are not 'random sentences'.

    They present a pattern. A clear and evident need that those who DO believe as you claim, need to address with their own, sometimes violent, members.

    Example:

    *Calif. Teen faces trail in gay classmate killing - By Greg Risling AP - Published by DSNews- 07/05/11

    LOS ANGELES A Southern California teen driven by white supremacist beliefs executed a gay classmate at a junior high school with two gunshots to the back of his head

    There is still much work to be done for your claims to be true.

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    July 29, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    Pagan; you either misinterpret what I say or you have an agenda to promote. I just wanted to express that most people, Mormon, Catholic, Southern Baptist, Sactified Holiness, and many other denominations that do not accept same sex relationship operate on the theory that "I believe as I choose--you believe as you choose and I am willing to live in peace with you." All the little blurbs you quote are random sentences taken from a larger article. Perhaps you chose those things that expound your beliefs, but do not reflect the nature of the entire article.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    July 29, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    @builttolast: I would ask you, respectfully, how this issue is being "shoved down your throat"? Do you have "missionaries" knocking at your door trying to convert you to become gay? Are there gays on the street corners handing out pamphlets letting you know that if you do not support gays, you will not be "saved"? Are your children forced to go to gay events? What direct impact does it have on you?

    Is it exposure that turns you off? Avoid the exposure. You can't, you say? Apparently I can't go to a NASCAR event without exposure to a prayer. I'm not a believer. Is religion being shoved down my throat?

  • zabivka Orem, UT
    July 29, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    Coleman wrote: "To make it abundantly clear, the LDS church will always support marriage as between one man and one woman. That will not change."

    Well, perhaps, unless they decide to go back to "one man, multiple women".

  • Built2Last Provo, UT
    July 29, 2011 9:17 a.m.

    To Dennis from Harwich, MA: Your observations of the Utah population from way over there in Mass.?? That's rich.

    I agree that it's a non-issue. But your figure of 10 to 15% of the population being gay has been proven to be completely false. A figure of 2% of the population is being overly generous. And the word "Fear" doesn't even enter into the equation. I suspect for most people, the word is "disgust" that such a tiny sliver of the population tries to dictate to the rest of the population how things should be. Sorry. If you want to live a gay lifestyle, go for it. I could care less. But when you start trying to shove it down my throat, we have a problem.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    ' In these days and times most people know someone or of someone who is in a same sex relationship and while they may not understand what makes them tick, they don't throw rocks at them either.' - dlw7 | 9:06 a.m. July 29, 2011

    Well, not literally.

    *'LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K' - By Lynn Arave - By Dsnews - 02/03/09

    'Proposition 8 was a ballot measure in California last November that changed the state constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples and eliminated same-sex couples' right to marry.'

    *Mormon Church agrees to pay small fine for mistake that led to late report of contributions in Prop. 8 campaign' - By Scott Taylor - By DSnews - 06/09/10

    'As the state agency for interpreting and enforcing California's campaign finance rules, the FPPC identified 13 instances of "nonmonetary late contributions made and not timely reported" or the church failing to file daily reports detailing $36,928 in in-kind contributions, including the cost of staff time spent by church employees to help the "Yes on 8" committee.'

    These are stories from your own paper moderator.

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    July 29, 2011 9:06 a.m.

    Dennis, you have been greatly misinformed about the majority of people in Utah. People here are educated, informed, and in the main stream of things. The prevalent religion does teach against same sex relationship, but then so does the Catholic and Southern Baptist religions. If one visited some of the Southern States you would find a majority of the people there do not believe in same sex relationship. It is unfair to focus primarily on Utah. In these days and times most people know someone or of someone who is in a same sex relationship and while they may not understand what makes them tick, they don't throw rocks at them either

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 29, 2011 9:05 a.m.

    It isn't necessarily that there are more GLBT households, simply that we've decided to answer the questions such that we are counted.

    This was the first census that my partner and I listed ourselves as "unmarried partners" on the census. We've been together for over 13 years - on the prior census we just listed ourselves as roommates.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2011 8:47 a.m.

    'To Dennis.. how do you know how Utah pop. reacts? Do you live in Utah? Yes, some are afraid, but not near as many as you mistakenly assume.' - twinb | 8:03 a.m.

    I live in Utah. Over 10 years now.

    Dennis | 5:59 a.m., is supported.

    "Gov. Gary Herbert said Thursday that people should not enjoy special legal protection based on their sexual orientation." DSNews 08/29/09

    *'Silent LGBT protest sparks crude comment' - By Mohammad Allam - The Daily Utah Chronicle - 02/16/10

    *'Gays greatest threat to America, Buttars says' - By Aaron Falk - DSnews - 02/19/09

    *Survey shows some LGBT residents dont feel safe By Rosemary Winters SL Tribune 07/12/10

    *'Safety of gay people topic of Salt Lake discussion' - By Jennifer Dobner - AP - Published by DSNews - 07/14/10

    *'Official Statement: Hate Speech Tagged at (Utah Pride) Center' - 08/20/10

    *'5 plead guilty in beating of South Salt Lake man and his partner' - By Spencer Garn - DSNews - 03/21/2011

    And Chris Buttars was elected in Utah...

    three times.

    Acknowledging that someone is LGBT is the first step in dismantling some of the irrational fear around it.

  • desert dweller SAINT GEORGE, UT
    July 29, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    so what ? more same sex couples livimg together so what ? if you dont agree with it then spend your time worrying about your own personal problems and your family and stop thinking you have the right to tell other people how to live their lives because you dont have that right regardless of what you think. more power to them ! I hope they are happy and content atleast they mind their own buisness and stay out of yours. to bad you cant do the same for them.

  • twinb Willoughby, OH
    July 29, 2011 8:03 a.m.

    To Dennis.. how do you know how Utah pop. reacts? Do you live in Utah? Yes, some are afraid, but not near as many as you mistakenly assume. Sorry, but I don't buy it and I've lived in Utah (though I'm not from there). I see such fear here in Ohio! There are people who are fearful all over and not just Utah. It's rather difficult to say many if all in Utah are afraid, that's a naive blanket statement and totally not fair. Oh and BTW, it's not necessarily due to being poorly informed, but rather just the opposite.

  • Soccer4life Herriman, UT
    July 29, 2011 8:01 a.m.

    @ Maudine - Why? The only ill effect they have is harrassment from kids whose parents "LBU" have brain washed them that their parents are sinners!

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    July 29, 2011 5:59 a.m.

    Mention the world "Gay" around the Utah based population and what do you get? A lot of nervous, fearful and poorly informed members of the local population. My observation is many if not all of you are afraid. Let me share a little acronym with you. Fear = F alse E vidence A ppearing R eal. 10 to 15% of the population is Gay. That's 10 to 15% of everyone you see, everyone you are around, everywhere you go. It's time to take away the fear. It's a non-issue.

  • Andy Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 29, 2011 12:48 a.m.

    Welcome to the neighborhood. Please be good, respectful neighbors.

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    July 29, 2011 12:28 a.m.

    Um, we have always been here. The numbers are higher, but the discrimination from the dominant religion in the state of Utah influences how folks fill out their census questionnaire. When the Supreme Court rules that the discrimination will end, and it will happen, equality will be everywhere.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2011 11:05 p.m.

    The article said that a quarter of gay couples here are raising kids. If that isn't a reason for gays to be allowed to marry, I don't know what is. I just don't understand why so many are so adament about denying these innocent kids the protections that my kids have and which I took for granted.

  • joy Logan, UT
    July 28, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    Maybe many of the bloggers need to read some that have already been written. A lot of repetition.
    Statistics show me that Utahans are good at loving their neighbors.
    Yah!

  • Sand Flea FALLING WATERS, WV
    July 28, 2011 10:23 p.m.

    The basic census form did not require answering all the information and the census taker could then fill in observations.

    The article is mis-leading as it states that 6.6 of every 1000 homes are gay. Most would glance at that and say 6.6% as opposed to .66% - below 2000 census numbers.

    Utah is very much gay friendly except for some homophobic souls (that you find everywhere). The persons expousing themselves as gay is about 1% of the population bases on census "observation". The census has NO authority or congressional mandate to determine sexual orientation so anything brought in can only be "observation" and unoffical. The 2000 numbers are extrapolation of same sex households (room mates). 2010 tried to identify this more with the long form questions and instructions given to census workers for "observations".

    Citing gay sponsored surveys also discredits the article, but at least Whatcott stated the source.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    July 28, 2011 10:08 p.m.

    Why is this news? It's irrelevant to our lives. Or at least it should be in the eyes of the LGBT community. Aren't they trying to blend in and become so normal in our lives that they are no different than anyone else? So why should we become aware of how many of them there are?

    LBU- Agreed! Though gays and lesbians may be loving gentle parents, it's unfair to intentionally deprive them of a father or mother.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    July 28, 2011 10:03 p.m.

    @ LBU: Why? They suffer no negative effect.

  • LBU FORT CAMPBELL, KY
    July 28, 2011 9:57 p.m.

    I feel bad for the children who are brought up in these "families."

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 28, 2011 9:05 p.m.

    gay households is spreading in more places than just Utah.

  • Aggielove Junction city, Oregon
    July 28, 2011 7:12 p.m.

    Dn subscriber is sharp. We need more folks like that. Thanks

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    July 28, 2011 6:55 p.m.

    Notice how DN Subscriber hasn't come back with a response yet to those to discredited their post.

    And a question for you: Aside from it being against your "beliefs" and "morals," just how does the gay lifestyle affect you directly?

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    July 28, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    How can this be "poor example" of journalism when everything reported was gathered from the Census. It is a statement of fact, not opinion and it is how it is. People here in Utah have to face up to the fact that "they" are among us and that is not going to change--all that "last days" goings on stuff. I have close relatives who share alternative livestyle. We are cousins, good friends and I have a deep affection for them. I do not hassle them about their life and they do not hassle me for not accepting same sex marriage and we get along just fine.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:40 p.m.

    The survey says that they determine that a couple is gay because person 1 answering the census describes their relationship with another adult of the same sex as "husband/wife" or 'unmarried partner'. It doesn't sound like an agenda to me; it's probably safe to say most of these are gay people. After all, this is Utah, and no one who isn't gay would be brave enough to leave any ambiguity as to their orientation. Regardless of what they are, i'm not afraid of them.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    When there was more than one person in a household, the census asked for gender of the additional parties and their relationship to the primary person filling out the census.

    It is doubtful that two people of the same-sex sharing a residence would choose "married" or "unmarried partners" if they were just roommates.

  • mike ArmedForces OGDEN, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    Calling it an example of "Poor Journalism" simply because you disagree does not make it so.

  • coleman51 Orem, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:36 p.m.

    I am not sure what this article is trying to imply. Does it suggest that the LDS church support some aspects of gay marriage? To make it abundantly clear, the LDS church will always support marriage as between one man and one woman. That will not change. Those couples who are LDS and are actively gay whether in a gay union or not, are subject to Church discipline. If this article is trying to suggest otherwise, it is clearly misleading the public.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:34 p.m.

    Good point by the subscriber above - I don't remember sexual orientation coming from the census and it's unclear where these stats come from, but after having lived in 4 different states, outside of california, Utah seems to be a very gay-friendly place to live. Lots of gay couples in salt lake city. I would be curious to know on a per-capita basis, how Utah ranks among other states. I imagine it is close to top 10. Not as much discrimination compared to other parts of the country.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:33 p.m.

    DN Sub -

    They fill out their gender and then check that they are partners.

    Per the census bureau:

    "The 2010 Census will be the first to report counts of both same-sex partners and same-sex
    spouses. The person filling out the form (Person 1) is asked to identify how all other individuals in
    the household are related to him or her.
    Census data are based on how individuals self identify and how couples think of themselves.
    Same-sex couples who are married, or consider themselves to be spouses, can identify one
    other adult as a husband or wife. Other same-sex couples may instead decide to use the term
    unmarried partner. In general, people who identify as unmarried partners are in a close
    personal relationship but are not married or do not think of themselves as spouses."

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 28, 2011 4:28 p.m.

    @ DN Subscriber: Yeah - if only there had been a question on the census to ask how person 2 is related to person 1 with options like Husband or wife, Biological son or daughter, Adopted son or daughter, Stepson or stepdaughter, Brother or sister, Father or mother, Grandchild, Parent-in-law, Son-in-law or daughter-in-law, Other relative, Roomer or boarder, Housemate or roommate, Unmarried partner, or Other nonrelative.

    Oh wait!

    There was!

    Maybe they got the information because that is how the form was answered?

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 28, 2011 4:09 p.m.

    This is a poor example of "journalism" where a news release from an clearly biased source with an agenda provides data taken out of context, and is accepted as fact.

    There were no questions on the census asking if a person is gay, so therefore they must be selectively choosing data where two unmarried adults of the same sex are living in the same residence and assuming all are gays. Not siblings, nor a child caring for a parent, nor roommates.

    When biased "news" like this is spread, it is clearly an attempt to create a "bandwagon" effect to condone and accept gay behavior.