@mount olympus"I love how BYU fans are living in denial and
claim that going independent is so much better than joining a BCS
conference."Question: who will make more revenue from their TV
contract this year: BYU or Utah? Answer: BYU. Expected to make $8-10 Million
from ESPN. Utah will make $3 mil from the pac12 championship game only. BYU > Utah
@junkgeek"The Pac-12 just announced a nationwide TV deal (for
2012 and beyond) that will put every Pac-12 game on national TV. The Utes won't
have any problem getting people to watch their games."Yeah, as
long as you have cable! Notice Directv nor Dish Network were involved in the PTN
deal. If you have satellite, you won't be able to watch Utah. Larry Scott said
approximately "40 million homes". Well, that's about 20 million less
than BYU TV, but I'm sure ute fans in the state of Utah will see the games, as
long as they have comcast. Also, this network won't be up until
August 2012. That means Utah home games this year are "KJZZ or
Bust"!Go KJZZ and their 30 viewers!
Tomahawk-There isn't much difference between ESPN and ESPN2 these
days anyway. It's pretty commonplace now that any cable/satelitte package that
provides ESPN also provides ESPN2.
@isred"Byu plays 4 WAC teams and a Big Sky team in Provo this
year."Amazingly how near-sighted some comments are. BYU had to
put an independence schedule together at the last minute for 2011. Holmoe has
said without the WAC stepping up and offering to help, BYU wouldn't have been
able to do 2011 as an independent. 2012 will be slightly better, with home games
against Oregon State and Hawaii, plus road games at Notre Dame Boise State, and
Utah. 2013 BYU has Texas, Boise State, and probably Utah at home.
As a cougar fan, I'm looking forward to future years, not just
looking at 2011. One fact: Notre Dame has never visited Rice Eccles,
and never will. On the other hand, BYU has welcomed Notre Dame more than once,
and has 2 guaranteed home games with Notre Dame in the near future. BYU in 2011: 10, maybe 11, games on the ESPN family of networks! Go Cougars!
Many commenters are referencing that BYU can't get good quality games in
October/November. Let's remember that BYU plays TCU and Oregon State
in October this year. And also the Notre Dame game moving forward is scheduled
for October/November time frame. I wouldn't be surprised if Notre Dame is moved
permanently to Thanksgiving weekend. Notre Dame doesn't have natural in-state
rival who they can play every year on Thanksgiving weekend, like Alabama/Auburn
or Ole miss/Mississippi State. BYU could be that new rival, even though we are
over 1,000 miles away. Also, the Hawaii game this year is in
December, and Hawaii will be a great team this year. Georgia Tech
next year will be an October game.The only fact so far is November
2011 is not a good schedule. But, having pieced in a matter of months really
didn't give BYU a lot of options. Remember, BYU announced independence only 11
months ago. Seems a lot longer, but it really was that short of time. 2012 will be better, 2013 will be. Better than that, and 2014 will be great
and all years moving forward.
OK I just figured it out...Utah State and UCF are Friday nights. No
other competition.For the Texas game... ESPN is showing Notre Dame @
Michigan. Tough competition.For the Utah game... ESPN is showing
Stanford @ Arizona. Tough competition.Makes more sense knowing that.
I gotta tell you, I'm highly surprised how ESPN is scheduling some of BYU's
games.Both the Utah and Texas game will be shown on ESPN2. Those are
definitely ESPN-quality matchups, so why ESPN2?Then they decide to
show Ole Miss, UTAH STATE (?)and UCF on ESPN?I don't get it. That
doesn't sound like good judgment.
"We don't like to do Friday night games because of high school football.
But if we have an opportunity to play a great game on a Friday, we'll do it or
look seriously into it."Clearly.They play on a
Friday night three times in 2011 alone.
UU702:Reading comprehension not my thing? Apparently it's not your
thing either. " show me where I said you were slamming BYU. I simply said
your argument is contradictory. Larry Scott wanted a 16 team league. He
currently has a 12 team league. You lobbing out personal insults doesn't cover
up the fact that the utes were plan b.Anyway you will be forgetting
all about this after the Utes start out 1-2.
uu-702Primarily Utah was only an after thought contingency on Scotts
bucket list. Simultaneous and down the line defaulting declines by the entire
group of his BIG 12 hopefuls minus Colorado and Utah's geographical location had
more to do with Utah's invite. Once the ball got rolling and Scott's dream
conference fell apart Utah's selection was a matter of saving face. Let's not
kid ourselves into buying a cop out that Scott is overjoyed with the results of
his venture. Let's also keep in mind what happened to the old WAC when
Commissioner Benson created his 16 team fiasco. If there was any merit attached
to the Utes invitation it was to give Scott an out... to use thier two BCS wins
as a rationalization or as a last effort to smooth over rejections by the teams
he really wanted... more or less in case plan A didn't work...which is the
reality.Actually I like having Utah in the PAC. It brings more of
the nation to all of the state of Utah College and University teams and greatly
improves every team in the state's exposure... I could say more but the pot is
@RiddlemethisReading comprehension not your thing huh...that's cool.
My original comments are about college football, super conferences, and
scheduling. If saying "Utes are safe" and "if byu doesn't get
picked up" is interpreted as slamming byu than that's your problem.I'll leave the slamming to the coach at Idaho. No respect from IDAHO?
UU702 - You have no idea what you're talking about. The PAC-16 offer was made
to the Big12 teams. Utah wasn't invited until after Texas (and the rest of the
big12 (minus CO)teams followed) denied the offer. Utah was only invited to be
the doormat of the real PAC12 power teams to showcase themselves in a conference
UU702: Maybe you forgot about the rumors that the PAC10 was
reluctant to take Kansas or the like? byu fans like to say Utah made it because
Texas backed out; that is very much assumption not fact,So how do
you qualify using rumor folks didn't want Kansas for evidence and accuse BYU
fans of assuming Utah only got invited because Texas backed out? And
as far as getting all twisted up? You're the one commenting on the BYU article
and posing the question that I said what I said because "it makes me feel
better" And as far as miscontsruing someone else's post: I don't need to
feel better about anything. Before YOU get all twisted up maybe you might want
to read where I gave kudos and props to Utah for being in the PAC12.But maybe I haven't been paying attention like you say. I've only heard of the
PAC12 not the PAC 16.
"The similarities of Arizona, ASU and the Utes are amazing. No NC for
football."Kenny G.The similarities of Minnesota,
Army, and the Colleg of Detriot are amazing. All have won long ago NC's.
@RiddlmethisUhhhh...you obviously weren't watching when the PAC16
push was made and Utah was very much in the conversation as one of the 6
additions. Maybe you forgot about the rumors that the PAC10 was reluctant to
take Kansas or the like? byu fans like to say Utah made it because Texas backed
out; that is very much assumption not fact, but if it makes you feel better?Secondly, before you get all twisted up you might want to read where I
stated "if they were not picked up" scheduling could get very tough
(in reference to the article). I think your "Myopic" interpretation of
my original post is the problem.
Independence = WAC with a mask on.They should hesitate to schedule
the big boys of Utah State, an ESPN affiliate can't afford an upset like that
again...If Independence if what they wanted, Independence is what
they got. It seems like a lot of the small issues of being Independent are now
being discovered in Provo. That's why jumping ship and choosing your school's
future should require a bit more time and planning.
my point was simply that for scheduling sake, BYU needs Utah much more than Utah
needs BYU. BYU fans wait for months about the next "big" scheduling
announcement...and then what do they get, Conference USA's Southern Mississippi?
UU702 | 10:40 p.m. July 28, 2011 Layton, UTWatched Larry Scott
predict on the beloved ESPN last night that Super Conferences will happen. Larry
makes things happen in case anybody hasn't been watching.-----Uhh. You obviously weren't watching when Larry Scott tried to create a 16 team
conference out of the PAC 10 and failed.You are in a quandary
pointing the finger of scorn at BYU saying they will be left out of the 16 team
conference, when only a year ago Utah was left out of the creation of a 16 team
conference! The reason Utah is where they are is because the 5 Big 12 Schools
turned Scott down. That's not a jab at Utah. Utah should be proud of themselves
for accomplishing enough to be the 12th team. It's a wonderful opportunity and
based on the nascent success of the fb program well deserved, but it is myopic
and hypocritical to say BYU can't get into a 16 team conference, when the only
reason Utah is in the PAC is because of the failed creation of a 16 team
"You won a National Championship that was ranked by a Sports Illustrated
writer as "The most undeserving NC of all time". I won't even do the
research on this one, I'm sure Sammy G, Ducky, Y Grad...will do it for me (since
they don't seem to work), but tell me the last time a National Champion played a
6-5 team for their "bowl game" & went without beating a top 25
opponent all year."By calling a national championship
undeserved, there is the implication that there was a better team (after all, if
the best team won the national championship then it wouldn't be undeserved).
Please provide irrefutable evidence that BYU was NOT the best team in the
nation.As for Utah demanding a 2-1 with BYU, I doubt they will ever
be so arrogant to do it. BYU would laugh at their faces for suggesting it.
Utah State did the 1-2 with BYU because there was a lot of money involved, which
they need. BYU is not hurting financially and, despite what Utah fans think, is
NOT a worse team than Utah. Imagine if BYU demanded a 2-1 with Arkansas.
Come on GJ:Utah State up and coming, they're not good. SDSU was a
quality team and one of the best quality wins for the Cougs last year. SDSU won
a bowl game and their coach is now leading the maize and blue in Ann Arbor.
They have exciting, dynamic talent most years, USU not so much.Nevada to Central Florida. I will take Nevada every time. Nevada lost one
game last year, their coach invented the Pistol offense and they are truly one
of the most interesting teams in the west year in and year out. They have also
beat the Cougs in their last two meetings.Yes, BYU's home schedule
last year wasn't great but it's worse this year, in fact this is the worst home
schedule for quality of teams I've seen in a long time. But even with that said
independence brings opportunities but let's face it, the 2012 home schedule
isn't one of the benefits.
@Mount Olympus "If they really knew that, then 3 or 4 years ago they would
have started scheduling 12 games a year, instead of just the 4 non conf games.
It obviously was not planned as they said, otherwise BYU wouldn't be playing
half of their games against the WAC."So what you're saying is
that BYU made the decision to go independent the moment Utah left for the PAC 12
and then in the space of one month, when BYU announced its independence, they
had built the most state-of-the-art broadcasting facility in the western United
States, developed and released an APP that allows the broadcasting of BYUtv on
all mobile devices and signed an 8 year contract with ESPN?Yup,
there was obviously no forethought at all to the process (roll my eyes). Give
me a breakBTW, not sure what all the hullabaloo is about our
scheduling. It gets better and better with each season. Look at the 2013 slate
of home games (Texas, BSU, Georiga Tech, Utah). Pretty awesome.Go
Watched Larry Scott predict on the beloved ESPN last night that Super
Conferences will happen. Larry makes things happen in case anybody hasn't been
watching. Most predictions I have seen show the PAC12, Big10, SEC, and ACC
picking off the cream of the Big12 and Big East. The first four are all 12 team
two division formats (probably not a coincidence).64 teams most likely in
creating 16 additional spots and everybody else second tier. Playoff system
solved.IMHO it takes one of the aforementioned four conferences to
go to 16 and it will be a race for the remaining teams. Anybody left out will
struggle for relevance and some may bow out (that would suck). Utes are safe;
byu's current scheduling issues and relevance could pale in comparison if they
were not picked up. Any number of things could happen over the next 2-4 years
including nothing but that is not very likely.
Might be the only tackle that team makes this year.
Welcome to the WAC cougars!
re: sammygIf they really have been planning this for years as they say,
then they should have known that they were going to go independent in 2011 years
ago, like they said.If they really knew that, then 3 or 4 years ago
they would have started scheduling 12 games a year, instead of just the 4 non
conf games. It obviously was not planned as they said, otherwise BYU wouldn't
be playing half of their games against the WAC.
Can't you argue that BYU's 2011 schedule is no weaker than the schedules played
by the previous BCS busting schools, and upon first look it is probably a little
stronger? Boise State played Oregon in 2009 and Oregon St in 2006, and Hawaii
played Washington before beating up on the WAC and other weaker non-conference.
Utah's 2008 schedule included only Michigan and Oregon State, and the 2004
schedule included Texas A&M and Arizona. TCU played Oregon St last year as
the lone significant BCS opponent, and in 2009 played Virginia and Clemson.
Texas, Ole Miss and Oregon St are certainly on par with those teams, despite
being in down years.
"Phoenix a miserable rat trap?" Gilbert was ranked in the top 50
places to live in the USA the past 3 years, so not sure where your getting your
info brother. But Tucson...........not enough $$ in the world.
The similarities of Arizona, ASU and the Utes are amazing. No NC for
football.Being in denial about known fact and history kind of makes
BYU hater comments rather silly, ya think?I like the Glen Beck book
titled "Arguing with Idiots"
@Mt OlympusWinner winner chicken dinner, ding ding ding..."If this independence things was really in the works for years, why
didn't they schedule some good teams for 2011? They should have done this years
ago."Uh, could it be that it was only announced last year?
Can't schedule games until the 'cat's out of the bag'. LOL and ROTF!
@ Mount OlympusAre you serious in needing an explanation as to why
independence may have been considered years ago but schedules were not made
until after the announcement? I'm confident you understand the concept and are
not just getting in a dig.@ 1984 for life said: "Utah fans care
about the quality of the opponent." My response: #1) Montana State; #2) Ute
fans giddy that they "don't have to play Oregon and Stanford this
year"; #3) Ute fans rejoicing that USC is on probation and "even with
a loss" we make it into the PAC 12 Championship game. There is
no debate that BYU's schedule is seriously lacking at the end of this year, yet
it's curious that all I hear from U fans is how glad they are they do not have
to play (or get a gimee with a loss) against the champions of the Conference of
Champions. So, which is it? Quality opponent or a sigh of relief?
@ Duckhunter | 4:41 p.m. July 28, 2011 Highland, UT"With
utah being limited to only 3 out of conference games, one of which will be BYU,
they can't schedule that many sure wins, or they could but the fans will not
like it." You are correct. Utah fans care about the quality of the
opponent. BYU fans care about the record at the end of the year regardless of
the fact that the wins come playing a WAC schedule.
Wow some of these comments are hilarious.Saying SDSU is equal to USU?!
That is hilarious.2011 home schedule would have been a lot better
had BYU stayed in the MWC. Air Force, TCU, Boise State, and Utah all playing at
LES.If this independence things was really in the works for years,
why didn't they schedule some good teams for 2011? They should have done this
Utah 2-1? I don't think BYU has ever done 2-1 with PAC10 teams. If UCLA, Cal,
Stanford, USC, and Washington all do home and home, why would Utah think BYU
would ever give them 2-1? Given the size of LES and the ESPN payoff, Utah would
be more likely to go 1-2 than for BYU to go 2-1.Personally, I'm
looking forward to the spanking the Huskies are going to deliver to the Utes.
Utah will not demand a 2 for 1 deal from BYU since gate revenue and viewership
dont arrant making such a demand. Utah administration officials including AD
Chris Hill also feel somewhat indebted to BYU since they stuck it out with Utah
during the last of the WAC era and the more recent MWC time frame when BYU had a
golden opportunity to bail and go to the Big-12 in 1993 when that league was
formed. Now Utah gets the golden league invitation and due to the mess that the
Big-12 has become BYU must face the scheduling nightmare, and likely delayed
gratification of a significant conference invitation until perhaps
mid-decade.As for BYU demanding a 2 for 1 from Utah State, lets put
it politely, the checkbook talks, and cash is something the Aggie athletic
program is in short supply of. The 2012-2015 home and home deal Utah has with
them will likely be the last strait-up such deal Chris Hill makes with the
school in Logan. The 2013 game BYU plays up there will also likely be their
last since Holmoe had a political bone to throw.
No complaints here . . .2011 schedule is better than a MWC schedule
would have been with four games against AQ teams and one soon to be AQ team.2012 schedule will look a lot like 2011, but with home games against
Oregon State and Hawaii should provide more appeal for the home games.And I get downright giddy thinking about 2013 and beyond with teams like Notre
Dame, Texas, Georgia Tech, West Virginia, Boise State in the mix.
@gonefishnI actually gave your comment a recomendation because it
was actually good. One thing you will notice however is that it is
mostly utah fans calling for a 2-1 despite the obvious facts that there is no
basis for it. I see no real basis for it going the other way either other than
BYU's larger stadium capacity. But that alone is not enough of a reason
either.In my opinion they either play each other 1-1 and every year
or else they should just drop each other. The truth is each team will take turns
being more relevent from season to season. In my opinion BYU will have more
really good seasons than utah because they will have more ability to schedule
themselves some automatic wins. With utah being limited to only 3 out of
conference games, one of which will be BYU, they can't schedule that many sure
wins, or they could but the fans will not like it. They will want to see some
variety of quality teams from around the country and will not want to see two
montana st. every year.
TJ,Duh."and maybe an additional one or two on
nationally per year." Even this year in 2011, there are all
ready 3 nationally televised utah games. Without the unrivaled Pac12 TV deal and
network that starts in 2012. Obviously if Utah remains ranked and wins, it will
turn into more- the only way it remains only three this year is if Utah starts
losing.By any use of logic, one would have to bet big time on that
improving once the landmark TV deal starts in 2010. I would love to take bets
from anyone who agrees with your post.Logic, comon sense, and
reality - great stuff.
I love how BYU fans are living in denial and claim that going independent is so
much better than joining a BCS conference.Really? Why didn't BYU go
independent years ago?Many claim that BYU going independent was not a knee
jerk reaction to Utah going to the Pac-12.If this were the case
wouldn't BYU have planned it more in advance?7 home games, the only BCS
opponent is Utah, then 4 bottom of the WAC teams and a big sky team?Admit it, this independence thing is not going to work out how most BYU fans
think, otherwise it would have been done years ago.
Dear Tom, Just schedule us some decent teams in Oct/Nov. Army, Navy, Notre
Dame. We should have them on a permanent schedule for those months. TCU, Pitt,
UConn, WVirg, any ACC team worthy of top 50 ranking. Consider moving the Utah
State game to the slot vacated by Utah. This should be easy starting 2013. Set
up a few games with Cal and Stanford. Since you coached at Cal, this should be a
piece of cake. Play Hawaii on the road every year to play a 13th game. Besides,
a trip to Oahu is better than a bowl game and a great recruiting tool. Early
December game please.Don't schedule Idaho State or any other lower tier
opponents. Think bigger. Think winner.Sincerely,Tommy
junkgeekActually, there are several regional networks. I heard it in 1320
AM this morning. The "Mountain West" network will cover CO and UT.
Because CO is much bigger, they will likely get the most coverage for now. Not
tinkling on your parade, just repeating what I heard. It was also speculated
that eventually all of these regional channels could maybe end up as all Western
US and possibly even the entire US. It is good for Ute fans either way. It
pretty much guarantees all games will be televised locally and maybe an
additional one or two on nationally per year.
Some of you are missing the main point of the article: Home Schedule. To my
surprise, BYU has done a great Job with the away scheduling. The 2 for 1's with
Texas and ND are great examples. There is no doubt that BYU season
ticket holders are getting downgraded, at least this season. Even in the distant
future they have to play at ND twice before getting them in Provo in 2014.
That's a problem - if I were a BYU season ticket holder. Bad game times, weak
opponents, ect.Like I said before, the overall schedule looks like
it will be improving from decent to great in the coming years, and the overall
schedule is what maters from a post season perspective. It is a good
thing BYU has ESPN leverage to schedule games. The bigger named opponents are
playing the Y for ESPN as much as any other reason (says Bronco himself). Congrats on pulling in some of those big names though. When I first
heard about independence I did not think it was going to happen. I was wrong.
junkgeek, The deal was to televise all of the games, but not all of them will
be nationally televised. Most of them will only be regionally televised. Also,
with a name like yours I wouldn't expect you to like Provo. It's too clean.
Correction: Utah has produced only half a dozen or so ranked teams in its entire
@One Nil to the Arsenal!You can disparage BYU's NC all you want but
it will never change the fact that they were the consensus national champions in
1984. It's in the NCAA record book, you can look it up for yourself.
Scoreboard!Furthermore, since you are quoting national sports
publications, BYU was ranked by ESPN recently as the #25 most prestigious
college football program in the country. Utah was somewhere in the 40's even
after their glorious Sugar Bowl victory. BYU has produced nationally ranked
teams on average every other year for the last 35 years running. In spite of
their great undefeated seasons in '04 and '08, Utah has produced only half a
dozen or so ranked teams in its entire season. The Utes have been fantastic the
last 7 years or so, but they are the Johnny Come Lately's of college football.
"Tucson and Phoenix are miserable rat traps..."Have you
been to Provo in the last 20 years?
The Pac-12 just announced a nationwide TV deal (for 2012 and beyond) that will
put every Pac-12 game on national TV. The Utes won't have any problem getting
people to watch their games.
Hey BYU haters, talk about respecting your opponets, Ute fans have no idea the
buzz saw your team is going into this year. I hope some of Utah fans travel to a
few of your away games this year. Arizona and Arizona St. are you're new rivals
and (I'm not proud of this) theese are rude, nasty people. They treated BYU
awful in 06, Iowa last year, geez, Go youtube Arizona rude fans. Against Oregon,
USC. The fans are also dumb, they WILL think Utah IS BYU, and not a lot of
people like BYU. You UTES have been playing with puppy dogs in the mountain west
and you're still hung up on BYU. I just hope the Utah players are looking ahead
or they're not ready for PAC 10.2. I'll be there Nov 5th vs. U of A Nov 5th
watching the Ute amidst the chaos, Whittingham pacing the sidelines looking lost
like he did against Notre Dame. Except South Bend is nice, Tucson and Phoenix
are miserable rat traps and it hurts to lose here.
Smurf,Also, why can't the BYU/Utah rivalry late in the season be
grandfathered? It's been going on a LONG time and is a pretty big deal for both
schools. It's not a lot to ask either since I just gave the perfect scenario
when the game could be played and no other school in the conference, besides
Utah and USC, has such a longstanding, signficant nonconference rivalry that
they would have to accommodate. I think Chris Hill and Kyle are soft. A little
too worried about upsetting their new conference that with each Pac-12 story I
read, they appear more and more like the conference whipping boy.
Smurf,Regardless of why USC is allowed a nonconference game late in
the season, one thing's for sure: If USC is not playing a conference opponent
one particular weekend in October/November, then at least one other Pac-12
school will either 1) have to be playing a non-conference opponent as well or
2)have a bye. Why not just allow BYU and Utah to play that same weekend while
the rest of the Pac-12 plays each other? Problem solved.
It does not seem to me that the "soft" games listed for this year are
much different than Wyoming, New Mexico, or UNLV last year. While I probably
would not like to see these guys every year, I think it is nice to play them
occasionally. New Mexico State has been begging for a game with BYU for a long
time. A 2 for 1 home with them would give them one sold out game for the year
and a chance to be on TV. As long as there are tougher teams on the schedule,
having a few games that are division I but not power houses seems OK to me.
Last year Ohio State played Marshall, Ohio University, and Eastern Michigan.
Honestly, with the BCS being what it is, I totally get not scheduling non
conference games after September. These conferences look to miss out on $19
million if they only put one team in a BCS bowl. So if you lose an out of
conference game in November, you don't go to that BCS bowl, even if the opponent
is really good. And playing BYU in November if BYU is anything other than
undefeated is no win for any team with BCS aspirations. So while I hate it, and
it may seem unfair, I get it. I probably wouldn't allow my teams to play a late
non conference game if I were running these conferences, or I'd at least heavily
discourage it, quietky.
"Nationally Prominent Team"....man, that makes me chuckle every time I
hear one of you Zoobs say that. I don't know what you think the college
football world owes you guys. It's like your walking around with this big chip
on your shoulder now b/c your completely left out of the BCS Hype. You won a
National Championship that was ranked by a Sports Illustrated writer as
"The most undeserving NC of all time". I won't even do the research
on this one, I'm sure Sammy G, Ducky, Y Grad...will do it for me (since they
don't seem to work), but tell me the last time a National Champion played a 6-5
team for their "bowl game" & went without beating a top 25
opponent all year. Your current situation (worst access to BCS bowl games) is
the product of your own success during the Reagan Administration. Ya, you've
had some great players come through. You've had some prestigious WAC/MWC
Championships. But when your talking about Nationally prominent
programs......I'm pretty sure that unless your LDS, nobody in this country is
writing in BYU in that blank. Again, not your fault. It's the bubble.
If BYU dumps Utah off their schedule, Utah will have no chance of ever getting
on ESPN. Utah needs BYU like a fat kid needs cake. Utah is in the same class as
Wazzu & Oregon State in the Pac 10.2; nobody has any interest in them
outside of their fan bases. It's proof, not one of them got an ESPN game/deal
through the PAC 10.2. Oregon State will probably get theirs through BYU, just
like Utah did. Once again, BYU is carrying the load for little
utah wouldn't be on the map without the last 40 years of BYU football. So who
RE: isrredBYU has a weak home schedule this year (although, being in
a major BCS area, I can tell you that a lot of top BCS schools have weak
schedules, they just have a few really tough games but most of the other games
are powder puff) because they had a short time to fill the schedule. BYU's
schedule will be very strong year in and year out after this year.
Reuben @ 8:30Holmoe, Mendenhall, and BYU have always been respectful of
Utah, it's the fans, and a few of the players that have had issues. But it cuts
both ways, Respect is earned, and disrespect is often earned as well. Utah fans
haven't been the best hosts either. Both side could take a lesson form come of
the classier places to play. I hear ND fans are very gracious hosts.
I can't believe teams aren't lining up to the byu especially with that great new
Silent LurkerBYU fans, how is Utah wanting a two for one with BYU
any different that BYU wanting a two for one with Utah State?Answer:
Beside being classier, BYU is the better team than Utah or Utah State.
Wether it is Utah or BYU, they better insist on as many 1 for 1's as they can
get and not be too heavy handed / arrogant with the insistance of recieving
their own 2 for 1's. This is competitive athletics and the worm turns ie Utes in
the 80's or BYUs Crowton era.
Giantfan,Larry Scott came out and said that the specific game
between Notre Dame and USC is grand fathered in, and since they are the cream of
the crop in the Pac 12, they got to keep that game. Go look up the interview
with Scott back when they made this announcement.
@silent lurker"BYU fans, how is Utah wanting a two for one with
BYU any different that BYU wanting a two for one with Utah State?"Good grief.Let's do the math for you.BYU - 65000 seat
stadium. Sell out or close for every game.USU - 27000 seat stadium. Even
it it sells out it is less than half the size.UU- 44000 seat stadium. Once
again even if it sells out, much less revenue.BYU - 40 years as a
nationally prominent team.USU- no years as a nationally relevent
anything.UU - 7 years as a decent team, 2 years as a very good team.BYU - Concensus National ChampionUSU - Uh.....noUU-
Uh.....no. But they did finish #4 a couple of times.BYU - Huge
national fanbase....worldwide fanbase even. Lotsa viewers.USU - Uh.....has
a few fans in Logan and a sprinkling around the state.UU - Uh....has a
bunch in SLC but they are tenuous. Next to none anywhere else.I
could go on but there is really no neeed.LOL!
How great is independence? Ask the BYU softball team. When the WAC(!) said
they no longer needed the Y because they now had The University of Texas -
(arlington!)the softball team joined the football team in the dream of
independence. More sports to follow?
As a Cougar fan, I'm willing to watch BYU play a few games against Idaho, Fresno
State or even against Ball State or Eastern Illinois if at the same time we can
still schedule games against teams like Notre Dame, Texas, TCU and Ole' Miss. If
you think about it, it's really not much different than the MWC schedule. For
every BYU/Utah game or BYU/TCU game, there were games against UNLV, New Mexico
and Wyoming. Obviously, BYU football is going to have to endure some
growing pains as it moves from the MWC to Independence and a good part of that
includes scheduling. It may take a couple of years, but I have faith the Y will
eventually get into a good groove. As for the BYU/Utah game, here's
a nightmare scenario for you Ute fans. Let's say Chris Hill decides
BYU is now officially beneath the U's dignity and they drop the game from their
schedule. Then, the last scheduled game occurs and the Cougars have another John
Beck style, last second win.Now what?As long as the
BYU/Utah game stays competitive like it has for the last 20 years, it's staying.
silent lurker.USU will use this as a revenue generating "money
game". They can generate more income in one trip to Provo's 67000 seat
stadium than they can with 3 or 4 games in Logan and their 27000 seat stadium.
And all they have to do is take a Bus ride which cuts down on traveling
expense.Also; BYU needs home games in the near future because of the
neutral games and the 2 for 1 deals they are getting to play some very good
teams. Win Win situation.
Byu plays 4 WAC teams and a Big Sky team in Provo this year. If this is the kind
of home schedule independence produces, I would invite byu season ticket holders
to save some cash and just drive to Logan for USU games.
Silent LurkerIf you understand abstract concepts like
"math" and "time" it shouldn't be hard to understand the
difference.Some arrogant conferences won't allow their schools to
schedule games outside of their conference after the month of September. BYU
probably would have no trouble finding BCS teams to play in September. But
because of the self-imposed rules of the self-annointed conferences post
September slots are harder to fill. In order to play teams that would really
give BYU a boost if we win, (like Notre Dame and Texas) the school has had to
give up some two for one. That means if we wish to have six home games, BYU
needs some schools to give it two for ones. Utah State thankfully helped out
BYU. Why give a Utah a two for one at a prime time (September) for
BYU to play in a smaller, hostile stadium? If BYU is going to give a two for
one, it should be worth the risk like Ohio State or another name BCS school.
See? math and time.
@ RuebenThe Utes have had some extremely good seasons. They are a
team that has National buzz even with the lackluster MWC media coverage. But
they are in no position to be asking for a 2 for 1 from BYU. BYU has had
stellar seasons year in and year out, except last year. And people on here
suggesting that the rivalry should take a break. WHAT???? Those games have
been the most exciting, intense, last second, nail biters that I've ever seen.
I would be so sad to see this rivalry fall apart. Even though the Utes will
have numerous high quality games year in and year out, I NEVER want this rivalry
to even take ONE year off. It would be a travesty. If Utah goes
into the PAC 12 and wins it a couple of times and goes to National Championship,
maybe they would be in the position to ask for a 2 for 1.
Re: 9er4lifeHow foolish it would be for either program to want to
discontinue the rivalry. The fact that it still generates a lot of interest and
revenue for both programs makes it a no-brainer. For either side to claim it no
longer necessary because "we've moved on" is 100% arrogance.
From a Ute fan,I don't mind if there's a sabbatical between the two teams. Both
schools are definitely going in different directions. The Utes need to
establish themselves in the PAC 12 and establish rivalries within the
conference. Rivalries create a different atmosphere when those teams head to
RES. The Y have their own agenda by going the indy route and to promote their
religion. So the two schools are quite different in what they deem important.
A 10 year hiatus would be nice.
Re: Silent LurkerIt should be an easy answer. It's no secret that
USU is not at the same level financially, facility-wise and revenue generating
as BYU or Utah. The fact that so many now think that Utah has now broken through
some glass ceiling without proving anything in the Pac-12 is dumbfounding. BYU
will make more money in tv, bowl and gate at least the next 3 years than Utah.
SmurfUSC has this little non-confernce rivalry going with a school
called Notre Dame-maybe you've heard of them-that happens late in the season
(last year it was played in late November, this year late October). Now before
you go off on how "BYU is no Notre Dame" let's be real. The BYU/Utah
rivaly game is just as important to both schools as USC/Notre Dame is for them.
Good points, giantfan. I don't think that Utah State is complaining too much
about the pay they will receive from coming to LES. If the truth were known, BYU
probably had to insist on playing at Utah State every third year or else Utah
State would have wanted all of the games at LES. Money talks.
BYU fans, how is Utah wanting a two for one with BYU any different that BYU
wanting a two for one with Utah State?
Re: SU WildcatSo, in your mind, Utah is so big time now that them
asking for a 2 for 1 from BYU is the same as BYU asking it from USU? That is
exactly undeserved arrogance. Utah has proven nothing in the PAC-12 and here we
have all these people raising them to some stature that you usually have to earn
in college sports. And apparently some fans think that scheduling
football games should be like charity. BYU cannot afford to play USU
home-and-home over the long run. To play the "red" programs, they'll
have to play them on the road quite a bit. That takes up their road schedule
quickly. Playing every other year in Logan makes it harder to accomodate those
"red" teams. BYU doesn't make enough gate playing at Romney to make it
worthwhile to go every other year. And besides, Utah State loves playing at LES
because of the gate they get. Instead of having to travel to College Station or
Norman Oklahoma or Auburn Alabama to get those big paydays to keep their
athletic department afloat, they only have to travel 100 miles south on I-15.
I personally dont think they should have made Utah St a 2-1, and Chris Hill nor
Holmoe should ever ask for a 2-1 in the rivalry. However, if the other major
conferences do what the Pac and others have done, where after Sept, there are no
out of conference games. Then scheduling for the Y, and having decent games in
Oct and Nov is going to get tough. No one wants to see Idaho, Idaho St, UNM, New
Mexico St, Utah St, San Jose St, etc as all of their home games in Oct and Nov,
actually, ever for that matter. The Y will have ESPN's help, but if that
conference rule is in place, it wont matter what ESPN does, Utah, Texas,
Nebraska, Penn St, Ohio St, etc will not be able to come to LES late in the
season, and if the Y loses 1 game early and has cupcakes the rest of the way,
fans may lose interest.
Fun article to read. So glad BYU is not playing Idaho or Idaho State next year.
I hope BYU stays away from lower division schools. That's just such a waste.
Schedule teams like Florida International for those green games. The schedule
for next year looks great. That will be a fun year too.
Reuben said, "Utah has 9 guaranteed games every year against quality
opponents with their conference affiliation. . ."Really? I
cannot believe you said that. Regardless, I do not believe that even you believe
it.Colorado? Washington State? Oregon State? Arizona?Undeserved arrogance? Couldn't have said it better myself.
BYU and Utah Players, Coaches and Administrators have a great deal of respect
for each other with very few, if any, exceptions. The only lack of respect is
from a few pretend fans on both sides whose dislike for the other team
out-weighs their loyalty or like for the team they pretend to be a fan of.
Very few PAC teams are worth a two for one: USC, Oregon (for the time being).
Washington State is worthy of a two for one...in our favor. Until they prove otherwise, Utah is in the middle, one and one or no
deal. And before Utah proves themselves in the PAC, BYU may just as easily
prove themselves "all interesting" and the team folks are trying to
get on their schedule, even for a two for one.
Why does everyone think that seasons coming will be like this one for
scheduling? Let's look at the facts. Teams already have scheduled
games 2-3 seasons out. they are locked into those games. This means that BYU
will have a hard time for these first two years. Then it will be a lot
easier.Think like a AD. There are weeks in any schedule that can be
moved given a two year lead time. If one can be moved to schedule a nationally
televised game and a neutral location for big bucks, why would you turn that
down? It's all about money, and ESPN doles it out to teams who draw.I think that playing utah every few years fits the program just fine. I could
care less if they played every year.
Rueben,Apparently Utah needs BYU to get on ESPN. Without the BYU
game this year, Utah would be relegated to the obscurity of Versus and KJZZ all
season long!And the day that Utah offers BYU 2 for 1 and BYU
actually considers it is the day that the Board of Trustees discontinues
To CougFaninTX:Undeserved Arrogance on the part of Utah??? Really?
If that is the case, why did BYU force Utah State into basically a
2-for-1 deal instead of a home and home, guarantee money notwithstanding. Now
that typifies Undeserved Arrogance.
@lil' reuben"Holmoe, Mendenhall and BYU would be wise to be
respectful to their rivals to the North"What makes you think
they aren't respectful? Of course you know they are what you really mean is you
think they should grovel. Earth to reuben....utah is not the equivalent of BYU
in national prestige nor accomplishment in football. utah is nothing more than a
cling on who must attach itself to other more prestigious and accomplished
programs simply to survive.Sure having a yearly game with utah helps
scheduling but with the scheduling restrictions the pac10 has dictated to the
hapless and powerless utah program it requires them to schedule in the fairly
easy to fill September slots and really doesn't do much at all. BYU has no
problem finding quality September opponents.Return to your fantasy
land where utah is in a position to demand a 2-1 despite it's lack of national
prestige or interest, its small stadium, its lack of respect from tv exec's,
etc. In the meantime the fact chris hill isn't so stupid as to take your advice
is readily apparent considering he has made absolutely no attempt to do so.LOL!
"if Utah wasn't playing in Provo, it would be the worst lineup of home
games since the pre-LaVell era."Last year BYU played a home
schedule of Washington, Nevada, SDSU, Wyoming, UNLV, and New Mexico. This year
it's Utah, UCF, USU, SJS, Idaho State, Idaho, and NMSU. Utah =
Washington (BCS team)UCF = Nevada (quality mid-major team)USU = SDSU
(up and coming mid-major team)Idaho = Wyoming (over matched mid-major
team)SJS = UNLV (perpetually underachieving mid-major team)NMSU =
UNM (hopelessly bad mid-major team)Idaho State = bonus exhibition game Aside from the bonus exhibition game, I don't see much difference from
last year. Are you even old enough to remember the "pre-LaVell" era?
That is very unlike Bronco to 1) use the word "red" in any sentence
ever to the media and 2) say, ". . . red is, proceed with a lot of caution.
Stop and look both ways and make sure you're ready to go."I
know, I know, he put Utah in the yellow category below the top-25 caliber along
with Utah State (ouch). Just saying . . . a bit un-Bronko-like.
CougFaninTX:Do I sense a new buzz phrase in the making?
"Undeserved arrogance," I like it! Your reply is spot on.
We need games. Do we need THAT game? No. Do we need it at the price of being
dictated to? Heck no! Insisting on a two for one, either way, is the surest
way to insure that the rivalry gets a break.
Rueben L"If I were Chris Hill, I would think long and hard about only
offering Holmoe 2 in Rice-Eccles for 1 in LaVell Edwards. If BYU says no, they
lose out a lot more than Utah does and have one more game they need to try to
fill."From a scheduling perspective, you're right, BYU needs
this game more than Utah. But from a "what's best for the fans", this
game is equally important for both. Utah will never find another opponent who
creates the rivalry interest like this one. Neither Utah, nor BYU football
would be the same without this game. To suggest a 2 for 1 instead of a home and
home typifies the undeserved arrogance of some Utah fans.
A couple things are clear after reading this. Holmoe, Mendenhall and BYU would
be wise to be respectful to their rivals to the North, because they need them
for scheduling a heck of a lot more than Utah needs BYU. Looking at BYU's home
schedule next year, if Utah wasn't playing in Provo, it would be the worst
lineup of home games since the pre-LaVell era. The Utah and possibly Central
Florida games are the only home games that hold any interest as far as quality
opponents. Utah has 9 guaranteed games every year against quality opponents with
their conference affiliation, and share equally in the PAC-12 money from the
contracts with ESPN, FOX and the PAC 12 network, regardless of how many times
they appear on TV. If I were Chris Hill, I would think long and hard about only
offering Holmoe 2 in Rice-Eccles for 1 in LaVell Edwards. If BYU says no, they
lose out a lot more than Utah does and have one more game they need to try to
Given recent experiences with the mountain, I'm guessing that not as many fans
will be complaining about night games.
Scheduling must be difficult. For every Nebraska, there has to be two San Jose
States. The smaller schools are lining up but the bigger schools don't need BYU
because they already have conference affiliations. Good thing ESPN is on their
side because individually, most of the games simply would not happen.
I appreciaate the added informatio regarding the legal aspects:"I've never spent so much time with lawyers in my life as since we went
independent."Provides an insight into the complexities of
scheduling that I had not considered befoe. What a pain in the rear end to have
to deal with lawyers so much.