Guess what? I don't care about BCS bowl games. I only care about championships.
@Randy01All coaches families pay a very high price for their focus.
Coaches live in their offices and spend more time in a day with thier jobs than
they do with their families in a week, maybe even two weeks."The tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goal. The tragedy
lies in having no goal to reach. It isn't a calamity to die with dreams
unfilled, but it is a calamity not to dream. It is not disgrace to reach the
stars, but it is a disgrace to have no stars to reach for. Not failure, but low
aim, is a sin." (Benjamin Mays)"Think little goals and
expect little achievements. Think big goals and win big success." (David
Joseph Schwartz)"A man without a goal is like a ship without a
rudder." (Thomas Carlyle)and last:"Goals that are
not written down are just wishes." (anonymous)bottom line, set
your sights low and expect even lower results. Shoot for "maybe
possibly" winning the South Division and you can expect to finish 3rd or
4th in the South Division. Sounds like Kyle is thinking just about what the rest
of us are thinking (Phil Steele included).
Truecoug1: Lombardi was a great coach, but his family paid a very
high price for his focus, In addition, Utah can't win a national
championship without winning a conference championship first. The theoretically
BYU could, but perhaps they should beat Texas and Mississippi first.
@Randy01 continuedDoes K Whitt have confidence his team can win a
national championship? Maybe. We don't know. As a player, I'd
rather that my coach state with confidence, and without hesitation, in front of
the national media that our goal is to win a national championship, rather than
one who says "our goal is to win the PAC 12 South division" (setting
sights rather low) and then hedges it by saying "but there are a lot of
good teams in the division".I think a good quote for K Whitt
and all Ute fans is again from Vince Lombardi: "We would
accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible."As a true blue Cougar fan, I do not think the goal of a national
championship is an impossible one, and I'm glad that my coach doesn't think so
@Randy01Since you seem to like great coaches and all, here's a quote
from a guy who may be considered the greatest football coach of all time. "There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my
game and that is first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green
Bay and I never want to finish second again." Vince Lombardi Wow, isn't that SO arrogant? How can he possibly say that? Isn't he
just giving the opposing teams locker room material?To answer that,
let's look at the stats. Lombardi's the guy who won the first two Super Bowls,
not to mention FIVE NFL Championships before the Super Bowl existed. He's also
the guy that the Super Bowl trophy is now named after.When he said
that first place was the only place in his game, he wasn't being arrogant. He
was confident. There's a BIG difference. When Bronco publicly
announced that BYU has the goal of winning a National Championship, he wasn't
being arrogant. He was showing confidence. As Lombardi also said,
"Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence."
To UtahMan4Ever:YOU SAID: "Utah's undefeated seasons playing
teams like Alabama and impressing voters enough to break the BSC rules and vote
Utah #1, yes, I would say Utah's two BSC victories were much more
legitimate."FACT: One voter in the USA Today Coaches poll was
impressed enough with the 2008 Utes to disregard the rules and vote the Utes
first (in spite of winning a lesser BCS game) in the final 2008 USA Today
Coaches poll: a voter named Kyle Whittingham!FACT: The 2004
undefeated Ute team received ZERO first place votes.PROOF: All this
information is on the final season rankings for NCAA Div I football on ESPN.com
for 2004 and 2008. Also see: Article "Voters give Florida No.
1 ranking; perfect Utah No. 2" on ESPN.com dated 9 Jan 2009. --
"Whittingham said he would vote his team No. 1 in the USA Today coaches'
poll, even though the American Football Coaches Association has agreed to have
all its voters place the winner of the BCS national championship game first on
their ballots. Utah did receive one first-place vote in the coaches' poll and
finished fourth. Whittingham isn't worried about losing his vote."
@BigCougar "Good info. What that's saying is that Utah almost has more
followers who are really BYU haters than they do actual Utah fans. That explains
why Rice-Chex and the Huntsman Center are only half full during down years but
sold out when BYU comes to town."Great analysis, I think that's
exactly what it says :)@Juggernaut "did you hear utah that year
guarantee a national championship, no!"I'm pretty sure that BYU
didn't guarantee a national championship that year, either. In fact, I'm pretty
sure that BYU has NEVER guaranteed a national championship...they've just set it
as a goal to strive for. I don't see what's wrong with that.Go Cougars!
To Mormon Ute:With all this talk about how classy Coach Whittingham
is and how much of a sore loser Bronco is, it's obvious you have chosen to close
your eyes to the infamous November 2007 Utah-Wyoming game. In case
you forgot, Coach Glenn of Wyoming guaranteed a victory over Utah. Foolsih on
Glenn's part, but he was probably trying to fire up his team. I don't know, I
wasn't there.Utah, in an epic display of unsportsmanlike conduct,
called for an onside kick when up 43-0 on the Cowboys. They recovered the kick
and ended up scoring yet another touchdown on helpless Wyoming.Actions speak louder than words. For Whittingham to be playing the
"humble new kid on the block" at a press conference in 2011 doesn't
erase the mean-spirited play calling against a thoroughly beaten opponent in the
past.Coach Whittingham has a good win-loss record and has done well
with the Utes, but he is no saint in coach's clothing. Please don't bash the
character of the team you love to hate, while obviously whitewashing the facets
of your own coach's character you hope other MWC fans won't remember.Play fair!
@Randyo1While Giant fan's checking his facts you should check yours. Just
off the top of my head I remember a particularly over the top piece written by
Rick Reilly that even many of his peers condemned as being jaded and unfactually
scathing when he ripped Jimmer. There was as much negative coverage
of the DAvies thing as there was positive. Also, if you watch ESPN you'll hear
plenty of comments from both sides of the aisles guys like Mark May, Colin
Cowherd, Mel Kiper Jr, etc don't blow any smoke when they talk about BYU.
Neither does Kirk Herbstreit. For every Lee Corso you can find out there I can
find more guys who aren't BYU Fans.
Duck hunter - check my comment. Bear learned there was no benefit from
humiliating an opponent, that doesn't mean he never did. Go read his
autobiography, he apologized publicly for doing it against Georgia Tech.Giant fan - go check your facts, there isn't an anti-BYU sports bias, in
spite of the fans best effort to make it so. ESPN has nothing negative to say.
Outside of comments about BYU's frequently weak schedule, not a whole lot of
negative. There was even a lot of positive coverage of the Davies affair.
@Big Cougar,How is that stat even relevant, did you hear utah that
year guarantee a national championship, no! Good comeback. Anyway, yeah Rock,
lets bite the hand that feeds us and just make everyone in the conference mad
before we have even played a game yet, that's like telling all of your co
workers before you have even started your first day that you are better than all
of them. Good way to start off.
@truecoug1"I was on Facebook and noticed there's a BYU football page
with 64,000+ likes...unfortunately, the U football page only has 17,000"Good info. What that's saying is that Utah almost has more followers who
are really BYU haters than they do actual Utah fans. That explains why Rice-Chex
and the Huntsman Center are only half full during down years but sold out when
BYU comes to town.
@mgr63"I was looking on Facebook yesterday and there is a "Hate
BYU" page"Am I supposed to cry about this or be saddened
by it? Did you think this was startling news you were breaking? Dude, back in
the early 90's SI ran a piece dubbing BYU as the most hated team in America. BYU is like the New York Yankees/Dallas Cowboys, love 'em or hate 'em
they draw people out and generate crazy revenue. When the Yankees go on the
road, opposing stadiums sell out and the local teams actually charge more for
Yankees games when they come to town than they do for other visiting teams.Case in point, when Utah went to UCLA in 2006 59,000 fans attended Utah
getting spanked. A year later, in 2007 BYU traveled to UCLA and 73,000 fans
showed up. That's 25% more fans attending which contributed an additional $2 to
$3 million (conservatively estimated) in tickets, food, souvenirs, parking, etc
going into UCLA's pockets. TV announcers kept commenting on how the crowd
sounded like a BYU home game.BYU moves the needle, Utah is
irrelevant. Thanks for pointing that out. You're helping to make our case.
So when some Utah fans act out of line, we all get dubbed classless by Max Hall
and the BCM (BYU Centric Media) and told we should be more like BYU.Then our head coach and player representative go represent the University with
class and dignity and the BCM tells us we should operate with less class like
BYU.Same pro-BYU media drivel we are forced to endure year after
year here in Utah.I will take Kyle's under selling and over
delivering any day of the week to the constant over selling and under
delivering, dog and pony show, Bronco puts on every year.
@jiggernaut"Remember the "quest for perfection." nuff
said"Remember 2005 and utah's 6th place finish in conference?
When talk and attitude win national championships, we will win it every year.
We're that good at it in east Provo.
Re: mgr63So what you're saying is that a lot of ute fans really hate
BYU? Wow, tell us more stuff we don't already know! How many ute fans will tell
you that their favorite team is whoever's playing BYU and that their second
is...uhhh...oh...uhhh...oh yeah...Utah!But hey, if that's the way it
is, so be it. The Yankees are hated because they're good and they win. The
Lakers are hated because they're good and they win. The Cowboys are hated
because they're usually good. If you say so, then, that's good company!
Randy01 said,"If anything, BYU's top-15 rankings have more to
do with a pro-BYU media bias than their level of their play against quality
opposition."Pro-BYU media bias, huh? Wow, some utes are
certainly delusional! And they say WE live in a bubble!
@mgr63I was on Facebook and noticed there's a BYU football page with
64,000+ likes...unfortunately, the U football page only has 17,000How's that for spitting out completely meaningless numbers :)
Gotta love the delicious irony of Utah fans bragging about a championship the
Utes never won, and then whining about the championship BYU did win.
Shaun | 9:46 p.m. July 27, 2011 Sandy, UT Byu fans are like the guy
who brags he won a state championship twenty years ago. Stop living in the past.
Who cares what you did five, ten, or thirty years ago.Going by your
logic, ute fans should quit bragging about their BCS bowls as well, afterall it
is in the past so who cares right?
mgr63"I was looking on Facebook yesterday and there is a
"Hate BYU" page, which I joined.......along with 11,808
others."What a shocker to discover that there are at least
11,809 "Utah fans" out there who aren't Utah fans at all, simply BYU
@ Hank Pym | 11:06 a.m. July 27, 2011 "Do you hear Fla St,
Miami, Texas, or Penn St flapping their gums?? Its been awhile since any of
those powers have won an NC."Texas won just a few years ago.
Byu fans are like the guy who brags he won a state championship twenty years
ago. Stop living in the past. Who cares what you did five, ten, or thirty years
@runwasatch: what does that say for byu?Whenever I hear byu fans claim
that Utah can't keep up in the PAC they are tacitly admitting that byu couldn't
either. In fact for byu in a BCS conference, the peaks and valleys would be
I love the wording on the questions. I'm sure the words "Cockiness"
and "Entitled" aren't meant to create a reaction from the fan bases
Rock, come on man.NO... Utah should most certainly have NOT spouted
off at Pac 12 day boasting about a National Championship that we all know is a
very very tough and unlikely reality this season.So why in the world
should they have boasted about it? I can't believe you really said that.That's right... let's upset everyone in the conference before we've even
played a game, and alienate all the other Pac 12 fans with our small-time
big-talk. Let's look at it this way... if us Ute fans had seen/heard
Colorado spouting off all that "BYU attitude" during media day, what
would we have thought?I would've wondered what the heck is wrong
@randy01 and mgrYes whittingham really showed his class with that
onside kick while being up 40 points on a hapless wyoming team. You really
pegged it randy when you compared him to Bear Bryant because kicking an onside
while up by 40 is exactly what the Bear would've done....right?
re;dutchmanYour might utes average .05 yards per carry in the game
for a total of 13 yards!! Please stop pretending Alabama was jacked a ready to
go. You got spotted 21 points, let Bama score on three straight posessions and
hung on for dear life. Play a game that counts, when the pressures
on, not when your entire fan base is saying things like, "Well we'll lose
but at least were in the sugar bowl."
re:dutchmanHeck Alabama came to life in the 2nd Quarter. Utah scores
10 points the rest of the way, 10! If deflated Alabama doesn't spot you 21
points(even Utah fans were surprised) you would have never won. Alabama was
deflated and depressed. Live with the truth. Really you scored 10 points the
rest of the way. What happened? Like I said, play a game that counts, when
the real pressure is on. U fans were conceding the game before it started and
you know it. 1234 T#6UTAH2107331#4ALA0107017
Coach Whitt could've talked about winning the national championship or the PAC
12 championship game the first year out.But Coach Whitt is smart and
a good guy.Rock, get over yourself and your team in Provo. It's BYU
and the other PAC coaches that need the Utah attitude. Do you're talkin on the
BYU "attitude" = bad juju. Coach Whit handles himself like a
gentleman, as do the Utes. They simply try their best to win is all. All we get
from BYU players, coaches and fans is senseless boasting, ridiculous t-shirts
and false claims. I was looking on Facebook yesterday and there is a "Hate
BYU" page, which I joined.......along with 11,808 others. I looked up a
myriad of other schools and the closest I found was two that had 438 and 397
haters. The Utes had a "hate Utah" page with 318 haters. I thought it
was hilarious, but sad. Maybe someday you cougs will learn to be
cool.........because people in this world despise you folks.
I grew up listening to Southern football, mostly Bear Bryant, Frank Broyles, and
Lou Holtz. There are eight outright national championships between these three
coaches and 2 more where at least one group declared one of their teams a
national champion. Bear almost always praised the competition, talked about
being lucky to win games, and openly questioned his own ability as a coach.Neither of these coaches would have sanctioned a media day like BYU's.
All would have been much more like Kyle in their approach. Bear in particular
also took steps to avoid running up the score (the man could use the clock) and
learned that it was unwise to humiliate their opponents. What goes around can
and will come around. They didn't let talk detract from goals. The
comparisons used to argue whether BYU and Utah is more relevant is highly
entertaining, but mostly meaningless. Remember, Arkansas and Alabama both
defeated more ranked teams in 2010 than BYU has since 1996. If
anything, BYU's top-15 rankings have more to do with a pro-BYU media bias than
their level of their play against quality opposition.
Remember the "quest for perfection." nuff said
Hmmm. You guys are funny. Now back to this season. Interesting schedule, a bit
of good luck. First season on a very big stage with a lot of eyes on you...glad
to see Whit and Tony have more maturity than some of these posters...they go
into the media gauntlet, show a lot of gratitude, a lot of poise and confidence,
say all the right things. Chest thumping is pure arrogance; the classiest
athletes don't so it even when they deserve to. Love your enemies, but beat them
on the field. The USC game should be very good: Utah's first conference game,
USC will come out wanting to blow everybody away. No lack of motivation for
either team. I predict a fairly sloppy game: lots of emotion, but not late
enough in the season to be polished. I also think the Utes will get better as
the season moves along; getting more comfortable with a new offense. And with
the huge media footprint Scott just forged, a lot of eyes will be watching our
inaugural season. The boys will do just fine...
Talk is cheap. Utah knows what it has to do.
@Fibby1123"Yeah, the Cougs won a national championship...in 1984.
Almost 30 years ago. It's ancient history. Win a national championship in this
millennium and I'll give you some credit."Hey Fibby, just win a
National Championship period in football in any century and we'll give you some
credit. Now, we do give you some credit in girls gymnastics...@Coach
Carter"If the same rules applied when the Utes went undefeated as
they were when BYU did, then the NC count would be Utah 1 BYU 1"What a riot! a ute fan crying about the rules not being the same? Well, if the
rules were the same in 1996 as they were in 2004 and 2008, BYU would've gone to
the Fiesta Bowl rather than the Cotton Bowl and they would've been first to a
major bowl not Utah (even though BYU played in the Fiesta Bowl 30 yrs before
Utah did).The bottom line is you do the best with the cards you're
dealt. On this one, BYU's best was a little better (a consensus National
Championship) than Utah's best (2nd or 4th place). I think that explains why
Utah aims a little lower than BYU does.
The UTES are about to learn how real football is played. No more of playing a
good team on a weekend sandwiched in between to two nearly Jr. College teams.They will face big, fast, and means teams week after week...The UTE train wreck will be a blast to observe...
Re: Man in Charge"We may not have any weber states on the
schedule but we have BYU who is the equivalent of weber state now."Ohh, that cuts deep! Not as deep though as the pain of losing to BYU on
September 17 will be! Don't even try to tell me you're not worried because we
know you are!!
Henry Drummond"I think Coach Kyle believes in doing his talking
on the field,"Both he and his players, like they did pre-game
against Boise State, before getting crushed by the Broncos.
Re: Henry Drummond"I think Coach Kyle believes in doing his
talking on the field, rather than putting it on t-shirt."No, I
think what you mean is that he chooses not to state his goals out loud so that
by chance if lightning strikes again for his Utes, he and they can claim it was
their goal all along. Pretty savvy, I must say.
BYU was as legitimate a national champion in 1984 as any national champion. All
five major selecting organizations awarded the national championship to the
Cougars. They deserved it!
It's amazing, all of the BYU fans' derogatory comments on this article on the
Utes. It's called sour grapes.
Re: Mormon Ute,I know that a lot of Utes thought they had a chance
of winning that game. My point was that the majority seemed to also believe
there was a chance of being blown out like Hawaii the year before. I don't think
they were too confident since Utah had to squeak out some pretty tight games
against Oregon State and TCU, among others. It wasn't until after that shocking
win in New Orleans that Ute fans even put their team in the NC discussion.
We may not have any weber states on the schedule but we have BYU who is the
equivalent of weber state now.
I think Coach Kyle believes in doing his talking on the field, rather than
putting it on t-shirt.
Re: JustGordonSeriously? Washington deserved the NC? They didn't
even win the Pac-10 or else they would've gone to the Rose Bowl that year! And,
they left an invite to play the #1 team and a chance to win an NC on the table
to go play for more money in Miami. They deserve what they got which was NO
Utah's definition of a "quest"...is to have all of the
best PAC 12 teams put on probation, back into winning the PAC 12
South with only two or three losses, hope to slip past another less
than stellar PAC 12 North winner, then beat their chests about
playing in the Rose Bowl...as if they've actually accomplished
Re: DutchmanWe'll agree to disagree about Pearl Harbor. One more
thing, though, I wouldn't say the Japanese "missed" our aircraft
carriers since in the first place they miscalculated their worth to our
military. The Japanese believed that the war in the Pacific would be decided by
battleships, that's why our's were their primary targets. They wanted to take
out our battleships while also buying themselves time to build more of their
own. That proved to be a major strategic blunder as it turned out our carriers
are what allowed us to win the Pacific. Also, the Japanese choosing not to send
a third wave into Pearl Harbor to target our fuel storage and submarine base
proved to be a poor decision.Go Cougars!!
deductive reasoning @ 3:46 p.m. July 27, 2011Steven Black's analysis
and a nickel is worth about 5 cents. Steven Black? Steven Black?
Can't you find someone better than that? He had written a whopping 8 articles
for Bleacher Reports and ranked a miserable 8,614 (on a scale of 1 to at least
8,614 with 1 being the best); no not miserable, more like pathetic. If you're going to do Shakespeare, don't go to Jerry Lewis. If you're going
to talk sports, don't....well I'm sure you can fill in the rest.
Back in '84...Sincerely,Uncle Rico
nosaerfoecioveht "In 2008, Utah went undefeated against quality
opponents, and capped it off by winning a huge bowl game against a great
team."and still Utah only finished #2/#4 in the polls.Maybe if Utah had actually done something from 2005 to 2007, the Utes might
have had enough credibility to have been considered a national championship
contender in 2008.Call us the next time Utah has FIVE Top 12
finishes in SIX years... The kids on the hill have never even
sniffed at such an accomplishment,in fact,BYU's FIVE Top
12 finishes in SIX years is more than Utah has accomplished in its ENTIRE
HISTORY.The difference between being a legacy program and being a
one or two hit wonder, is doing it year after year after year.
JustGordon. You and Steven Black need to look at the score from the
BYU/Washington game in 1985. Sure, college teams turn over each year but
anyways.Also, Washington had an invite to play BYU but chose money
over a NC.I guess I can't compare the feeling of a BCS win to a NC
but my guess is there is no comparison. From what I hear, the trophy for a NC
is way cooler.
JustGordon"Here's Steven Black's analysis of the mythical Y
championship, "The AP probably should've awarded their No. 1 ranking to
Washington, a team that went 11-1 and won the Orange Bowl over No. 2 Oklahoma.
Instead, the Huskies finished second in the final poll behind a BYU team that
had not truly been tested all season."The Huskies were invited
to play #1 ranked BYU, but chose to play #2 ranked Oklahoma instead. If
Washington had accepted the invitation to play BYU, this debate wouldn't be
occurring, would it?Besides, what makes you think one person's
opinion is more legimate than the 60 or so AP writers who voted on the AP poll
Actually, I ask this one question.... How many times in the history of UU
football have the been ranked #1 in any poll? How many times in Utah Football
History have the Utes beaten a #1? Are we really this petty?
GoGetter | 3:08 p.m. July 27, 2011 Sandy, UT and Rock is one
of the better ones. Imagine Harmon writing this article.
What is wrong with having lofty aspirations? What is wrong with wanting to
achieve the seemingly unachievable? If in fact it is beyond the realm of
possibility for BYU to win (another) national championship then it is beyond the
realm of possibility for most D1 college football programs, and the whole thing
is a complete sham. Of course, everyone knows the BCS is a complete sham, but I
see nothing wrong with Bronco openly stating he wants to be able to reach the
same heights that his predecessor did in the 80's. The only people who seem to
be offended by this are the fans of schools who have yet to achieve this for the
first time. For BYU fans this is nothing more than the perfectly natural desire
to see your team accomplish something again.
GoGetter"Let me just say one thing:Utah 2008- The
Quest Perfected"Only a delusional Utah fan would try to claim
that something less than a national championship is "perfection".Of course, that's SOP for Utah.Winning the 2nd best
tournament in 1944.Losing the championship game in 1998.Finishing
2nd in 2008.Always a bridesmaid; never a bride.
I can't believe DNews actually hires guys that write this kinda junk. It must be
a slow day in the newsroom for sports.
In 2008, Utah went undefeated against quality opponents, and capped it off by
winning a huge bowl game against a great team.The Yners have NEVER
even sniffed at such an accomplishment.But stay on that quest!
Here's Steven Black's analysis of the mythical Y championship, "The AP
probably should've awarded their No. 1 ranking to Washington, a team that went
11-1 and won the Orange Bowl over No. 2 Oklahoma. Instead, the Huskies finished
second in the final poll behind a BYU team that had not truly been tested all
Nice work Rock. You knew this article would turn a bunch of adults into 3rd
Utah fans simply can't live with the fact that no matter how they spin it#1 will ALWAYS be better than #2It would be nice if Utah
fans would show a little consistency with all of their BCS drum beating. The official BCS poll is the Coaches poll, which only ranked the Utes #5
in 2004 and #4 in 2008.If the Utes are going to insist on citing
their #2 ranking from 2008, they should get off their BCS high horse, because
the AP poll, which ranked the Utes #2, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the
Coachcarter,So, what does that say about your BCS
"invite"? You didn't win your way into a BCS game, you were
"invited". Your final ranking? It was voted on. Wow, you beat a
bunch of teams that finished .500 or worse, then watch as Alabama plays some of
the worst football of their season. That is really something to beat your chests
giantfan,You obviously don't know me. When asked by my BYU fan
friends about the upcoming Sugar Bowl and who our opponent would be, I told them
all I would prefer Alabama out of all the top ten teams at the time and I felt
we had a legitimate shot at beating them. Most of them laughed at the thought,
but I truly felt that way.
coachcarter, What's the difference today? The NC is still
"awarded" to a team because there is no true playoff system. Sure,
there is a "BCS National Championship" game but to be
"invited" to play in that game you still have to be #1 or #2 in that
beauty contest that is the BCS rankings (2/3 human polls). And even with that,
the AP poll still awards it's national championship exactly the same way it did
in 1984 and they are not held to the results of the BCS CG. So keep trying to
diminish what BYU did in 1984, the fact of the matter is they were a consensus
national championship, something only 18 other teams can claim in the last 50
years, and still something the BSC era has failed to ensure (USC 2003).
It's always a good idea to pay attention to, and follow Big Brother.
coachcarterTell me one single team from 1936 (when the AP poll was
started) until 2010, that wasn't AWARDED the AP national championship.Don't forget that even in the BCS era, USC won the 2003 AP national
championship WITHOUT playing in the BCS championship game.BYU can
beat their chests because in 1984 BYU was voted #1 by all FIVE selecting
organizations, the very same experts who ranked Utah 2004 #4/#5 and Utah 2008
You guys are too funny. Are your two BCS bowl victories really somehow
tarnished by BYU's national championship? Somehow your accomplishments are
somehow less relevant because BYU was voted the consensus national champion in
1984???I agree with a previous poster. I am terribly sorry you feel
threatened somehow by our t-shirts.
The jealous football revisionists up on the hill just can't live with one simple
fact, the ONLY criteria for winning the AP National Championship (the only poll
Utah fans cite), is to convince the majority of AP football experts that you are
the most deserving team to win the national championship.BYU did
that in 1984. How?By building a resume from 1979-1984 that included
--FIVE Top 12 finishes--back-to-back Top 7 finishes--a 24-game
winning streak that included two road wins over Top 15 teams--6 straight
conference championships--an overall record of 66-9(88%) Utah
couldn't do that in 2004 and 2008, because from 1999-2004, Utah only had--ONE Top 12 finish--NO back-to-back Top 20 finishes--a 15-game
winning streak that included NO wins over a Top 25 team--only 3 conference
championships--an overall record of 44-22(69%)and from
2003-2008, Utah only had--TWO Top 12 finishes--NO back-to-back Top
20 finishes--a 13-game winning streak that included three wins over Top 25
teams (at home)--only 3 conference championships--an overall record
Giantfan,The US was a weak disorganized military force at the
beginning of WWII fostered by years of neglect by our politicians. The Japanese
had the latest in new equipment including the "zero" fighter planes
designed by Howard Hughes who couldn't sell the design to our own leaders. The
superior Japanese forces took out our naval fleet at Pearl Harbor but luckily
missed our aircraft carriers because they had left to go to sea. It was General
Marshall who had the skill and leadership to rebuild the US military into a
fighting force.Laser,"......Alabama who were
disheartened and deflated"I get so sick of hearing this from
BYU fans. You obviously did not see the game or have not reviewed it lately. I
was there in person and I have watched it on DVD several times. Alabama was a
bit shell shocked the first half but when the second half started they were
jacked and on fire. They got the score to within one touchdown and were kicking
off to Utah. Stop Utah, get the ball back and score again and the game is all
tied up. Instead, Utah takes the ball 80 yards and a score.
My point is still valid. BYU didn't win the NC, they were awarded it. Wow, you
beat a bunch of teams that finished .500 or worse. That is really something to
beat your chests about.
To the screener: how many of the comments between UTE/BYU fans violate your
comments policy? Seriously, just because a comment is critical of the author and
his motives the comment is rejected? You've posted much more offensive
comments.My original comment (that was rejected) asked what the
purpose of this article was. Was it to provide "thoughtful and helpful
[comments] to your fellow readers with additional insight or counterpoints to
the article"? Or was it simply to provoke another battle between UTE/BYU
fans full of name calling, and other inappropriate comments. If the goal was to
provoke the ire of the fans, I ask where the journalistic integrity of the
artilce lies. If it was to provide thoughtful insight, I argue that the author
fell well short of the mark...
To giantfan;Considering the level of competition BYU played in 1984
(a 6-6 hurt Michigan team was your greatest triumph) compared to undefeated
seasons playing teams like Alabama and impressing voters enough to break the BSC
rules and vote Utah #1, yes, I would say Utah's two BSC victories were much more
legitimate than the 'national championship".
"Where are my Cougars expected to finish in the Independant league this
year?"The pundits have them finishing no lower the 4th, I
personally think those awsome fellers will finish no worst than 2nd!Mark it down!
Re: UtahMan4ever"Utah has shone brightly, winning two BCS
games, which no matter how much it pains the cougs, are much more legitimate
than the "national championship" backed into in 1984. "This is the kind of thinking that just blows my mind! Only in Ute Fantasyland
are two also-ran finishes better than one first-place finish! Quick, go tell the
Utah Jazz and the Buffalo Bills! Their long sought after championships are no
longer necessary since they've finished second more than once!!
Undefeated:To you guys, its a quest. To us, its just
what we do.
Re: JoCo UteHaving a goal and stating it publicly is not the same as
guaranteeing it. By stating their goal is a National Championship, BYU is not
making a prediction that they will win a championship. That's one thing Ute fans
fail to recognize. They get all up in arms at BYU and its fans, calling them
arrogant and cocky for stating their goals. Weird. I'll leave you
with this: 1. I hope that BYU wins a National Championship this year
and I'm glad it's the team's publicly declared goal.2. I predict
that BYU goes 10-3 this year with wins over Utah and in their bowl game. But no
National Championship in 2011.See the difference yet?
Let me just say one thing:BYU 2008- The Quest for the PerfectionUtah 2008- The Quest PerfectedThe difference between Utah and BYU
is that BYU talks a perfect season while Utah makes it a reality.
tO TrueCoug 1Even if the "national championship" of 1984
wasn't tainted, it was still almost 30 years ago. Typical of a BYU fan to live
in the past, since the present is not all that rosy and the future will really
be nasty. The "national championship" led to the current system,
designed to keep schools like Utah and BYU out of limelight, but guess what?
Utah has shone brightly, winning two BCS games, which no matter how much it
pains the cougs, are much more legitimate than the "national
championship" backed into in 1984.
BigCougFan | 12:05 p.m. July 27, 2011 Cottonwood Heights, UT and what place in the Independant conference will we be happy to get?
Remember the "Quest for Perfection?" How'd that work out for BYU?
Now BYu has the "Quest for a National Championship." Wonder how that
will work out. One of my favorite quotes is "Under promise and over
deliver." It's all about the bottom line and not some fancy
quote that will come back to choke you.
Attitude? No, it's confidence. BYU is much more confident in what can be
accomplished than the Utes. Utah will be happy to come in third place this
Re: DutchmanThe Japanese were planning military action in Southeast
Asia and knew that if they had a chance to do it successfully, they had to
cripple the U.S. Pacific fleet first. Hence Pearl Harbor. If the Japanese were
already a superior force, why didn't they just go ahead and do as they pleased
without striking the U.S. first? Fact is the U.S. was a superior military power
and Japan knew it. When the U.S. subsequently declared war on Japan, Germany
immediately declared war on the U.S. Both Hitler and the Japanese believed they
had a decent shot of defeating a U.S. divided into a two-front war. Still didn't
work.Back to football, the truth is Utah is scared to ever publicize
their goals because of the possibility that they might not accomplish them.
They've always struggled in their confidence but I guess maybe by not readily
declaring goals, they can "exceed expectations" more often.
UTAH should do things the UTAH way...period! You can say anything
into a vacuum. Talk is cheap and it's apparently on sale in provo. Compare that
to Los Angeles, Bristol, and New York. Thanks for the advice Brad but our new
peers run in different, not so peculiar circles now.
But why, some say, [a national championship]? Why choose this as our goal? And
they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the
Atlantic? Why does [BYU] play Texas? We choose to go [independent]. We
choose [a national championship] in this decade and do the other things, not
because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve
to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that
challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to
postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, tooMany years
ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest,
was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."
Well, a [national championship] is there, and we're going to climb it, and
[independence] and the [BCS] are there, and new hopes for [exposure] and
[national recognition] are there. And, therefore, as we set sail we ask God's
blessing on the most hazardous and dangerous and greatest adventure on which
[BYU] has ever embarked. Thank you. Modified from JFK's Moon Speech
AZRods "We play and compete in ALL the major sports.Check your record
on championships in basketball, baseball, football, wrestling, swimming, track,
golf or whatever sports you like."Yet Utah didn't win a MWC
championship at all last year. Won't it be tougher going to a conference where
they pride themselves on champions and your team isn't even winning
championships? BYU won 140 MWC championships. Utah won 39, about as many as
UNLV. Utah needs to earn their own championships if they want to add to the
"champion" part of the conference. With 11 other teams, that will be
EXTREMELY challenging to ever get one championship in any sport.
@JDL @ 7:18"BYU is playing on a field very few programs are
brave enough to dream about.." Just like the Y to follow in the footsteps
of Utah State and ten's of other teams who have been brave enough to dream of
independence only to wake up from the nightmare.As for others ... if
national championships are the only criteria for football respectability then
BYU must be half as good as Army.
Give the Cougars credit for going undefeated because there is not much else they
did in 1984 to deserve national championship consideration. Several
"mid-major" teams since, like Boise State in 2006, Utah in 2004 &
2008, and Tulane in 1998, have gone undefeated only to miss out on any serious
national title consideration.The Cougars defeated only one bowl team
during the regular season (Air Force), and did not play anyone who finished the
season ranked in the top 20. BYU's most impressive road win was at Pittsburgh,
who finished the season 3-7-1. Lavell Edwards' squad clinched the
national championship by playing in the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan
team, easily Bo Schembechler's worst squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. It is
still the only Michigan team to finish without a winning record since 1967.And there you have it Cougar fans. The summary of a 1984 undefeated
season.The Utes deserved it especially in 2008 when they went 12-0
and gave a shallacking to Alabama in the Sugar Bowl 31-17. The finished 2nd.And I'm a cougar fan! Please stop smacking the Utes about our 1984
BCS wins are nothing. They've been dumbed down so much. The only game is the NC,
period. Utah BCS wins were against Pitt, who were pathetic at best and Alabama
who were disheartened and deflated. Utah get into a game that counts
and then you can talk. You hold up BCS games like it's a NC. There not! You got
whooped last hear by two BCS crasher themselves, so basically you're the weakest
of the crashers, just sliding in above Hawaii. You got exposed last year as all
talk no show. You barely managed to beat BYU, a team full of freshman and
sophmores! And you needed a bad fumble call for help to boot!There's
your persepective. Stop calling Cougars arrogant when you are afflicted and
crippled with the disease. If your so powerful how come you barely have 3
outright conf. championships in the last 60 years?!The PAC 12 is
going to expose every flaw and WHITtle you down to nothing. No Weber States on
giantfan,Any great general will go for the surprise attack when he
can even if he has superior forces. Just because a surprise attack is used and
preferred it does not mean that the initiator of the suprise attack is inferior
in anyway. When the Japanese pulled off the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor
they had vastly superior forces. They had been fighting in China for a decade
and had trained veteran forces while the U.S. was cutting defenses and defense
spending to the point that in 1939 when WWII began the U.S. was ranked about
16th in the World in military might. So another analogy. General Whittingham
has the forces to win and he knows it but he is not going to show it. So, in a
precise "feint operation" meant to throw the opposing forces off, he
brings an offensive lineman to the media day rather than some big play makers to
give the impression to the opposing force that he may be weak. Nice move
general. This is how great war planners think and work.
ummm AZRods, you must be new. sammyg is an ankle-biting cougar fan. He is
constantly on here barking, but he has very little bite.
Two things above the fact that I really don't get what this article is about. Is
Rock calling out the Utes because the need more fire. Is he insinuating that the
Utes don't think they have a chance. After all the bragging last year (TCU
coming to town, all fan boards thinking NC, Rock seemed to miss that
highmindedness) and for the last 8 months is Rock trying to convince people the
utes are humble? What championship does BYU have to play for now?
Nothing but the NC. So why not set your sights on it. Does he want BYU to say,
"We just want to win a few games." What is BYU supposed to say? Take a stand Rock call out the Utes or the Cougs, but neutral is weak.
Dennis;"Emulating anything "BYU" is the last thing
Utah should do, and certainly not on the mind of anyone up on the hill."Does that include winning a national championship?Just curious
@sammyg, Yes, we call it the conference of champions because.......WE ARE. And
it's not even close.You then mention your BCS wins compared to our
championships???You can have your BCS wins, we'll keep the
championships.It's all about balance sammy.We play and compete in
ALL the major sports.Check your record on championships in basketball,
baseball, football, wrestling, swimming, track, golf or whatever sports you
like. You can't just pick one to make a case.Personally, I'm hoping
Utah comes in quietly and kicks some arrogant west coast tail.
@ Fibby1123 | 1:31 a.m. July 27, 2011 "Yeah, the Cougs won a
national championship...in 1984. Almost 30 years ago. It's ancient history. Win
a national championship in this millennium and I'll give you some
credit."Exactly. Do you hear Fla St, Miami, Texas, or Penn St
flapping their gums?? Its been awhile since any of those powers have won an NC.
I for one am glad that BYU was "awarded a NC" back before they decided
they should stop handing them out to teams who didn't beat a single ranked
opponent, including their bowl game. (Bleh) Somehow this award
from last century still helps coug fans get their hopes up and beat their chests
before every season, declaring themselves pre season champions
"again". So thank you, broken system of the past, for so,
so, so many years of entertainment.
Where are my Cougars expected to finish in the Independant league this year?
Its hilarious that BYU fans continually bring up their ancient championship when
erroneously claiming present day superiority over the Utes. You were better
than Utah 30 years ago. We get that. However, its pretty obvious Utahs been
the better team in recent history and has a much better situation in the
upcoming season and beyond. So by all means BYU fans, keep living in the past
because your future really isnt so bright when compared to Utahs.
I am with the poll in the article-this is apples and oranges. BYU is
independent, they have no division or conference to win, their goal is to win
the one title within (hopefully) their reach. Does that mean it will be this
year? No. Even an undefeated season would require much outside help because we
don't start in the rankings. Utah's situation is entirely different and I'm
glad they didn't come in guns a'blazing. However I bet their first and foremost
goal is to win their division, then to win their conference, then on to a NC.
You reach for what is in front of you.The same could be said of the
BCS wins vs. NC argument. No question that two BCS wins in the past decade is
more relevant to football today than a national title 25 years ago (yes, the
year I was born...). But forty years from now if neither team does anything
noteworthy then a NC will outweigh any number of bowl wins, no matter how
prestigious. Apples and oranges... I won't say I'm not jealous of that notch
in Utah's belt, and I bet most Utah fans wish they had a NC :)
JJ Morales,You conveniently left off a few a few items:1. Utah BCS victories = 2; BYU = none2. Utah = in a prestigious
conference with more NCAA titles than any other conference; BYU = future
uncertain, and would kill to be in one of the top BCS conferences3. Most
recent game = Utah 17 BYU 164. Utah's overall record against BYU = 54
wins; BYU 34 winsMost of your list includes individual awards.
Anyone who has ever played football and understands the dynamics of the game
will tell you that it's a team sport. Individual awards have little relevance
to the overall success of the program.By the way, you say "Utah
can't have BYU('s) attitude because their winning tradition doesn't compare to
BYU's". You say this in spite of BYU having 20 more losses in head-to-head
competition against Utah. Interesting.
screenname123I was!That was also the beginning of an
unending disrespect for Barry Switzer and Bo Schembecler. Well okay,
I can't remember how to spell their names, but that IS a long time to carry a
grudge. I also remember how sad all washington fans were that they
played BYU at the beginning of 1985 instead of the end of 1984.
This is the most ridiculous article I have ever read.... What else does byu
have to play for, absolutely nothing!!!! Not being in a conference only leaves
them that one goal. And guess what after one loss, just one loss it is over.
What else do they have to play for. nothing except pride.Utah has
used the same one game at a time attitude to get them to two bcs bowl games, not
t-shirts before the season stating their greatness before a game has even been
played. This doesn't mean Utah doesn't have a national championship as a goal.
Guess what... every team does. But there are steps to that goal. Like winning
your division, then your conference and then guess what, now for the Utes the
chance for a bcs game every year. while all byu has is their goal of a NC....
what else do their players or their coach have to talk about, again nothing. So
don't applaud them and think they are so great because they are out there
trumpeting this. There is nothing else for them to say. Good luck with that
goal...PAC12 >>> independence - no contest based on this
who cares if BYU doesn't have BCS wins, we have a National Championship
screenname123"How many BYU fans commenting about 1984 on here
were even alive when BYU won their National Championship?"How
Utah fans commenting on this blog are old enough to remember Utah's 1998 NCAA
championship game run? Yet Utah fans constantly bring that up when talking about
Utah's past glories in basketball.Utah fans have selective memory
when it comes to football and basketball.
Attitude separates the winners from the losers. Either BYU or Utah will be
weighed and measured by the outcome of the Sept 17 game in Provo. If Utah or BYU
end up 3-0 after the game then sugar plums will start dancing around in their
fans' heads. If either one has already lost, then no sugar plums for either
Re: screenname123I was 10 years old. I remember it vividly as it was
like my birth of being the rabid sportsfan I am today. Am I allowed to talk
about it then? According to you?
Remember, BYU has never "won" a national championship. However, in
1984, they were "awarded" a national championship.
The Cougars have a national title, but have never played in a national title
game. The BCS is a whole different world. For BYU, the only path there is
perfection. One loss and done.
Uh coach carter...as TrueBlue so aptly pointed out there is no difference
between the system now and the system when BYU won a concensus National
Championship in football. The difference between what BYU did in 1984 and what
utah did in 2004 is that the voters actually considered BYU worthy of being
named NCAA Football National Champions and they did not consider utah worthy of
that honor.The bcs championship is an entity unto itself, the other
organizations that award the National Championship are not beholden to the bcs
and in fact just a few short years ago, the AP awarded the National Championship
to usc whereas the bcs awarded their championship to LSU. In
otherwords utahs undefeated seasons were so underwhelming to the voters that
utah basicly was given no consideration whatsoever from any of them for the
honor. That was true even in the year utah was the only undefeated team in the
Congrats to the D News for not even pretending to be anything but a cheerleader
for BYU. I don't mind either approach. If BYU wants to talk about winning a
national title, fine. If Utah doesn't want to put a target on their back by
doing the same thing, fine. They have different goals with each
statement.BYU wants to get their fans excited.Utah wants to win as
many games as possible, which they have found that stirring the hornets nest
doesn't help. The goal is the same, they want to win. They just take
different approaches. BYU does not have the same target on their back by making
this statement as Utah would.
Re: DutchmanNice analogy, except that the surpise attack by the
Japanese at Pearl Harbor was the only way they had a shot against the superior
American army. Same with Washington. Read the book 1776 by McCullough, you'll
see that Washington was severely overmatched and knew it. He knew they were
inferior to the British in numbers and it was due in large part with the help of
the French later on that the American Revolution was won. So, by not stating
their goals publicly, are Kyle and other Utes saying they know head-to-head they
really have no chance?Fact of the matter is Utah has always
struggled with having confidence in their abilities and it translates directly
to their fanbase. Take 2008 as a prime example. The dozens of Ute fans I know
were nothing less than astounded that they were able to finish the regular
season undefeated and they were scared silly of being embarrassed by Alabama in
the Sugar Bowl. It was only after that surprising victory that you started to
hear ideas that they should've been in the National Championship discussion.
Before that? Not a chirp.
yarrlydarb says:"Sounds like they'll be so evenly matched they'll all
have .500 win/loss records in conference play. It'll be SO interesting, not one
of them will go to a BCS bowl."Wrong, my friend. The winner of
the Pac-12 championship game is GUARANTEED a BCS bid, whether their record is
8-5 or 13-0. It's called an automatic bid. And if two Pac-12 teams are highly
ranked (like Stanford and Oregon last year) there is a chance that they both get
BCS bids. BYU should negotiate a better deal with the BCS before
they discover that independence isn't all it's cracked up to be. For the Y to
get an automatic bid, they must finish in the top two of the BCS standings. To
do this, you need to be ranked in the top 15 at the START of the season. Auburn was ranked #23 at the start of last season and made the biggest
jump ever, to #1. It helped that they beat several teams in the Top 10-15 along
the way. For BYU to make such a jump, they will need to win out, and hope their
opponents have good seasons also.
How many BYU fans commenting about 1984 on here were even alive when BYU won
their National Championship? Can you really re-live the past if you weren't
even alive to "live it" in the first place?
Bronco sets high expectations and declares them publicly.Whittingham keeps
his expectations secret. Results:BCS winsBronco - noneKyle - oneAP Top 25 FinishesBronco - fourKyle - twoTop 15 FinishesBronco - threeKyle - oneMWC
championshipsBronco - twoKyle - oneBronco never lost to
a lower division MWC team (undefeated against New Mexico, Colorado State,
Wyoming, and UNLV).Kyle lost to every team in the MWC at least once,
including that humiliating shutout to UNLV(2-10) 0-27.
The Desperate News trying to get the Cougar fan base to react. It was PAC 12
media day, no one spoke of or thought about BYU. Move on folks.
@mussingaroundBronco blatantly throws out national title speak so
that his failures to even get to a BCS game, like even Hawaii has done, seem
more "nobel." Bronco should try walking (BCS game) before
he tries sprinting (National title).But he can't bring up the word
BCS. It just angers BYU fans and reminds them on the BCS accomplishment chart,
they are 2 notches below Utah, and a notch below Hawaii, Wake Forest, Pitt,
UConn, West Virginia, Maryland, etc.
Robert Johnson, and all the others:"Utah would rather do its
talking on the field where it actually counts. We all know what happens when
blowhards walk in feeling cocky....they leave looking like fools."The last team I remember talking on the field was right before kickoff in the
LV bowl, a certain team getting right up in the faces of a non-bcs opponent and
behaving, if you'll pardon me for saying so, unjustifiably arrogant.K-Whitt (I really do love that guy!) and his players appear to have learned a
hard lesson from that experience. Some of the fans? Not so much.
coachcarter"If the same rules applied when the Utes went
undefeated as they were when BYU did, then the NC count would be Utah 1 BYU
1"This is a Utah fan fantasy.The same rules did
apply in 1984, 2004, and 2008, finish #1 in the AP and Coaches polls.BYU did.Utah didn't.Being undefeated never has been a
criteria or a guarantee for winning a NC. Lots of teams have been undefeated,
and not won a NC -- see Penn State, Marshall, and Tulane, as just a few
Nice try Brad. The Deseret News will do anything to get their BYU fan base to
read an article. Football is war and in war surprise attacks are a lot more
devastating and effective than telling everyone you are on the march and coming
after them. Witness the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor. Remember Washington
crossed the Delaware River and defeated the British in a suprise attack.
Washington never said, "Hey British, we are better than you and now we are
coming after you and we will knock your heads off". Nope, he just quietly
planned and put a strategy together and then beat the tar out of them.
Whittingham is a general. He knows how to war game. He handled the PAC 12
media day just right and he didn't bring any # 1 T-shirts.
"To Utah, the big fish from a little pond. Welcome to the PACific ocean.
Watch out for the sharks."Sincerely,The PAC-12
@ Mormon Ute | 9:24 a.m. July 27, 2011 Kaysville, UTIt will.
Utah keeps their national championship goal secret so when they fail, they can
deny that they ever had such a goal to begin with.
I looked in the on line dictionary at the word "insecure". It said to
look at the posts of anti-BYU Yners on a DN football article. I was curious so I
looked up "obsessed". It had the exact same definition as insecure.
I am going to look up "jealous" next. In all
fairness. Kyle Whittingham is a "speak softly and carry a big stick"
kind of coach. Players tend to take on the attitude of their coach to some
degree. Bronco Mendenhall tends to be more emotional and outwardly
inspiring. He hired coaches who tend to have this philosophy. His players have
adopted this same attitude to some level. Two different styles that
have been working pretty well for the last several years for both men. Funny thing is. If the personalities were reversed. Fans of both schools would
be defending their coaches style just as passionately as they are now.
I like Coach Witt's approach. This way he doesn't put other teams on the
defense nor does he give them bulletin board material. He also doesn't set the
press up for a bunch of smack talk back at him after the season, if things don't
go well.What BYU is doing comes across as arrogance, not confidence.
If they had already won a few BCS games, it would be different. If they had
finished with a decent record last year, it would be different. If they
acutally had an agreement getting them into a BCS game, it would be different.
Right now all they have are a bunch of high profile games on ESPN in which they
will look really silly, if they don't win. When I read all the quotes from
BYU's media day I couldn't help remembering 'Quest for Perfection'. For BYU's
sake I sure hope history doesn't repeat itself.
BYU- One National Championship utah- noneBYU- 20+ conference
titles (WAC & MWC) utah- less than 10BYU- Heisman Trophy
utah- noneBYU- 2 Outland Trophy winners utah- noneBYU- Numerous all-Americans utah- very few, if anyBYU- BYUtv
and ESPN utah- kjzz and versusBYU- national fan base
utah- local and state fan basesBYU- legendary coach Edwards
utah- Meyer was 2 yrs. and oututah can't have BYU
attitude because their winning tradition doesn't compare to BYU's.
Jimmy James, you posted,"It feels like every other year BYU is
talking about their national championship chances and then not even coming close
in the long run.""Feels like" is much different than
actually saying it. Please name one time before this year that Bronco or anyone
officially connected to BYU said they would win a NC.If you say some
posters and some fans said it, you are correct, but remember last year when the
same was posted all across these boards by U fans and they surely didn't bring
Utah would rather do its talking on the field where it actually counts. We all
know what happens when blowhards walk in feeling cocky....they leave looking
LOTRIt's interesting how fixated Utah fans get on BYU announcing
their goals publicly, like there's some kind of nobility in keeping your goals a
deep, dark secret until you've accomplished your goals, and then crowing about
your accomplishment after the fact.Of course, Utah fans weren't at
all shy about proclaiming Utah's national championship expectations last season
just before that humiliating meltdown in the "biggest game in Utah
history", but that's "different".
Great article. Rock on. i believe what we are seeing is Utah being told to sit
in their seat and don't ask questions. it will be interesting to see if that
translates the same for the Utes as it has for AZ and ASU who mandatorily were
put in the cellar for a few decades OR will the Utes be "allowed" to
play to win? Certainly the Package 12 hierarchy is "scared" the Utes
will win right off the bat so the conference has "penalized" them
monetarily for several years in an effort to keep them down and out and
hopefully forever similar to AZ and ASU who are not "true" pacific
coast teams similar to Utah and Colorado now. Expansion was and is about the
money and supposed TV markets including expanded Sunday play coverage.
talk is cheap
Great comment earlier "BYU comes out every year claiming they have the best
team ever and they're on their way to a national championship...until they get
pie on their faces from that first loss. Then they have to work their way back
from the disappointment from their own fans and mocking from everyone
else." I also agree with BamaUte who said he'll take Kyle's quiet
confidence over Bronco's Utah Valley MLM hype.It's so true, byu
fans, although very loyal and passionate, which is extremely admirable and cute,
are always big talk in the off-season and overly optimistic that it does get
very annoying. I agree that many Utah fans are arrogent about Pac-12, but as a
fan base, utah fans aren't as obnoxious about predictions as BYU and bragging
about 15 year olds that make verbals.
@Fibby1123, coachcarter, HappyLDSUteI said "Now let's hear all
the Ute fans excuses about how BYU's national championship doesn't count".
Thanks for validating me :) The only FACT that concerns me is that
BYU has a national championship and Utah does not. The only FACT
that concerns me is that BYU was voted consensus national champions in 1984 by
everyone that mattered (and that, unfortunately for U, didn't include U fans)
and Utah never has been, even in their two 'amazing' BCS years.The
only FACT that concerns me is that BYU has a national championship trophy in
their Legends Hall, while Utah hangs their hat on their two lesser BCS wins.So @TheNIT, is it arrogant for BYU to have a goal for something which
they've already done once before? I don't call that arrogance...I call it
confidence, and I'm glad that Bronco and the boys in blue have it. But to each his own.Like I said, Brad Rock sure knows how to keep
us busy during these long, slow, offseason months. Gotta love it
Season about to start. Whitt is smart to keep the bravado down since he is the
new kid on the BCS block. Walk softly and carry a big stick. I'll judge Utah's
success as follows:Break .500 and lose to BYU Downer
for UBreak .500 and beat BYU Better than nothingWin the South Conference and lose to North Good seasonWin the South
Conference and beat North Off to the BCSWin a BCS Bowl Game
Great SeasonWin a National Championship
hohumDon't embarrass Happy with asking for details about Utah's
leather helmet era, 5 and 6 win "undefeated" seasons. Especially don't
ask about that undefeated season where Utah was SHUTOUT by BYU 0-0.
Funny how BYU always wins the off-season. Unfortunately, not so much when it
comes to doing it on the field.
Gotta love Rock ruffling the feathers of those strutting birds on the hill who
have been crowing about being one of the "big boys" for over a
year.As far as national championship aspirations go, except for USC,
BYU has more concensus national championships (#1 in AP and Coaches polls) than
the rest of the "conference of champions" COMBINED!To win
a national championship takes putting together a string of good seasons, like
say, finishing in the Top 15 in back-to-back seasons -- something BYU has done
on multiple occassions (as recently as 2006-2007), but something Utah has NEVER
done!As much as they whine about BYU's "ancient" national
championship, at least BYU is smart enough to understand how the system works.
Utah fans still think that their one-hit wonders of 2004 and 2008 were worthy of
NC consideration.Sorry to disappoint you, but your 6th place finish
in the final BCS standings proves that you weren't even close.
Let me explain to you why the Utes don't need to be arrogant or cocky. First,
they let their game do the talking; meaning that if they lose, they take
ownership and give their opponent credit (try explaing to Bronco this concept),
and when they win, the compliment their opponent and explain what good they did
and where they need to improve. Whit is a class act who is humble and a true
leader, Bronco, well he needs a HUGE slice of humble pie! The more I see how
Bronco operates the more I have come to realize that he is cocky, arogant and
disrespectful of his opponents, sometimes referred to as a sore loser. Go ahead
and claim he is a competitor, if that is what you want to call it, then excuse
poor behavior once again.
Rock knows this, but is trying to get a reaction from fans.This
shows the difference between these programs. BYU prints T-Shirts
about what they plan to do. Utah quietly has the same goal, says
nothing about it, then goes out and actually accomplishes the "Quest For
Perfection."Just the way these programs role. One
has huge success in the BCS era that dwarfs many programs from BCS conferences.
The other has huge dreams of being as good as they were in the
1980's. Or being as good as their rival to the north.Nothing new
here, just a media member trying to rehash reality.
Rock, you just don't get it.Talking a big game and not bringing it
is what drives me NUTS about BYU. It feels like every other year BYU is talking
about their national championship chances and then not even coming close in the
long run. I think this is partly because you paint a big target on your back
when you talk big. If you put yourself on a pedestal, other teams are going to
want to knock you off it.In my opinion, BYU should be following
Utah's lead on this. Keep the talk low key, fly under the radar, and then let
your play on the field do the talking for you. Or perhaps, we should
make you a "Quest for (Journalism) perfection" t-shirt?
Nice sensational writhing Mr. Rock. Were you just sitting around bored and
thought you'd stir up a fight just for fun?Here's the reality:1. Yesterday had *nothing* to do with BYU. With all that went on, the
best news you had to report was that the Utes were humble? Even if you can't do
better than that, surely your editor recognizes this is an article for sometime
when there isn't any news, not for the day of the PAC12 media day.2.
Real athletes and coaches know it's stupid to overlplay their hand. Utah had
*nothing* to gain and a lot to lose by going into this thing cocky. Furthermore,
like it or not, the Utes represent Utah and it's culture (including the
predominant religion in this state) to the PAC12. This is a place where we value
humility and excellence. I am proud of how they showed. There's no shame in
walking into a fight humbly and then destroying your opponent. That's what coach
and the Utes have always done.3. What do you think BYU should play
for? With no conference, there is nothing else but the National Championship.
It's not cocky, it's just reality.
this headline is meant to draw in readers but then the article itself just jumps
all over the place. There is not a central point that I can take from
Happy:What coaches were undefeated and what were the seven seasons?
I really want to know as I am not that up on the u.
When Utah announced that they were going to the Pac 12, a Ute fan was a guest on
one of the sports shows on local TV, and he said the rivalry was now irrelevant.
What a laugh.
BYU fans and newspapers discuss high school players ad nauseum, Ute fans discuss
which of the former Utes will be All-Pro this year in the off season and who may
get slighted. Fans in NC are freaked out when Steve Smith lists his house, John
Beck is denied entrance to the Redskin's training facility yesterday because
security didn't recognize him.I'll take Kyle's approach EVERY day to
Bronco's Utah Valley MLM hype.Remember Holmoe brought Cal's football
program to its knees, in spite of everyone's early optimism, he'll do the same
for BYU. You can put lipstick on a pig, but....
What? Not one comment yet about Brad being a BYU homer?
Well, to hear Oregon State's coach Mike Riley, they're all so good in the PAC-12
that it should really "be interesting." Wow, that really
says it all right. They'll "be interesting."Sounds like
they'll be so evenly matched they'll all have .500 win/loss records in
conference play.It'll be SO interesting, not one of them will go to
a BCS bowl.
@NIT. You said,"The word isn't "attitude" it's
"unjustified annoying arrogance" - especially interesting for a
program with zero BCS wins."There is a ton of irony in your
statement, just look and you'll see it. Congrats to U for two BCS
wins and invitation to join a BCS conference. U earned the right to be proud and
even a little justifiably arrogant. Mockery on the other hand is not a sign of
humility nor is it ever justifiable.Whitt played his media day very
conservatively and in IMO rightfully so. BYU & Bronco on the other hand are
in a completely different position not bound by conference protocol. BYU is playing on a field very few programs are brave enough to dream about
with significant risk and it fits their profile and mission. Time will tell how
it works out for them.Utah is playing in a safe and comfortable
security blanket and it fits their profile and mission, Time will tell how it
works out for them. Two Schools with very different agendas. BYU is
Independent, Utah is dependent, Utah football is the end, BYU football is a
means to an end.
If the same rules applied when the Utes went undefeated as they were when BYU
did, then the NC count would be Utah 1 BYU 1, and we wouldn't even be having
this conversation. The FACT is that BYU was the ONLY team to finish undefeated,
so they were awarded the NC. Utah has also finished the season as the ONLY
undefeated team, yet got snubbed. Go look at the season by season breakdown and
see how many times Utah has gone undefeated compared to BYU.
Easy to be less confident when you know your team isnt that good...
And they call it the Conference of Champions? Obviously not in football.Utes have more BCS wins than their conference foes, except USC? Wow,
that's an interesting factoid. It didn't make a difference in the
MWC so what makes it any different in a supposedly stronger conference?
Three comments in and we're already talking about 1984? Brad Rock
is everywhere in this article. It seems as Rock just reads through these boards
to find a topic which will stir up the same old. He has a negative slant most
of the time but will say something that 'makes up' for it so it doesn't look
like bashing. I have said it before and I say it to myself after every BR
'article'. Why does he even write for the Utes?
Emulating anything "BYU" is the last thing Utah should do, and
certainly not on the mind of anyone up on the hill.
I disagree that if BYU wins all their games, they might not get a BCS bid. With
their games on ESPN nationally and with the ESPN promotion, BYU will be fine if
they just win games. Good luck Utah in the Pac 12. Go Cougs
Looks like Rock is trying to create an argument here. Possibly some DNews bet
to see who can get the most comments. I'll add mine: BYU has a more difficult
road to a BCS game - must go undefeated and blow out the chumps on the schedule.
Utah can lose one, maybe two, and still go to a BCS game. This being said,
Utah has a PAC 12 schedule, and only losing one game this year would be pretty
amazing. But, their draw is promising, so they might be able to do it, not
withstanding their loss to BYU in September.
@truecoug1Lol! Oh boy, you BYU fans crack me up. So, you want to talk
numbers, huh? Try this on for size: We've had 3 Head coaches post undefeated
seasons, which is all you can really do to win a NC, and on top of that, the
University as a whole has seen 7 undefeated seasons in it's history. Now -go
ahead- google how many times BYU has gone undefeated...you back yet? How is that
1 undefeated season feel, now? Having fun yet? Now try this: Go back to Google
and type in "Top 5 most undeserving College Football National
Champions." That one has GOT to sting a bit. How does it feel knowing that
when the nation thinks of fluke and National Championship put together, BYU
comes to their minds? Just curious. You're right- this is WAY fun!
@truecoug1:Yeah, the Cougs won a national championship...in 1984.
Almost 30 years ago. It's ancient history. Win a national championship in
this millennium and I'll give you some credit.As for the matter at
hand:Actions speak louder than words.Coming into the spotlight
as a relative unknown in a big conference with guns blazing and overconfidence
just sets you up for failure and criticism.BYU comes out every year
claiming they have the best team ever and they're on their way to a national
championship...until they get pie on their faces from that first loss.Then
they have to work their way back from the disappointment from their own fans and
mocking from everyone else.
Remember that day - "It is great to be a Utes" on that big day
anouncement.Media day, utah kept it quiet.This is how it
will work, BYU goes undefeated (maybe) but will get ignore to bcs game (maybe).
Utah goes undefeated and won't be playing for NC (ditto). Go ask Auburn
(remember?). BcS won't change. Oh, one more - now that NFL finally got things
taken care of and Utah won't have to worry about Sunday's game(s) (I think).
Sorry Brad- Utah fans prefer a program that actually goes out and gets BCS wins,
rather than just talking about it.
"Is BYU more entitled to say it's shooting for a national championship than
Utah?"Been there, done that! Of course BYU is more
entitled to talk about repeating something they've already done before.
@The NIT "especially interesting for a program with zero BCS wins."And yet, BYU has one national championship...one more than Utah. Guess
it's more realistic for the Cougs to set a goal for something they've
accomplished once before, than for the Utes to set their sights on their very
first NC.Ok, now let's hear all the Ute fans excuses about how BYU's
national championship shouldn't count...This is going to be fun.Go Cougars!
Uh oh, let the jawing begin."Gentlemen, start your
engines!"Brad Rock sure knows how to keep us occupied during
these long, cruel summer months without college football.My take on
the article? Similar to AD Chris Hill's comments in the article on Sunday play
about essentially not wanting to make waves in their new conference (since the U
are the new kids on the block and basically have to do what they're told), K
Whit and Bergstrom didn't want to make waves for fear of upsetting the current
balance in the PAC 12 and getting the U kicked off of the PAC 12 TV schedule
entirely.Any thoughts? :)Go Cougars!
The word isn't "attitude" it's "unjustified annoying
arrogance" - especially interesting for a program with zero BCS wins.