Follow the money! This issue IS all about the money. The Dept of Agriculture
has estimated that the cost of labor is near 7-8%.So, if a head of
lettuce at your market, say, costs $1.00, then there is about 7-8 cents in the
labor of the product. Now, if employers are paying, let's say, $10 per hour,
they could, if they really wanted to, double the wage paid to $20, and that
would raise the price of that head of lettuce to $1.08.IF they
really needed labor, they could even triple what they are paying - which would
make a $30 per hour pay for their labor, and raise the cost of that head of
lettuce to $1.16.We have right now, about 100.000 unemployed folks
in OUR state that are unemployed. I am betting that EVERY ONE of them would do
this job -- IF the employer would offer a fair wage to get the help they need.
They want, however, to continue to pay the $10 (or less) for this VERY difficult
job - and they have found a way to do so. That of course, is to hire illegals.
Hey LED Z. Notice that we are commenting about illegals. Not illegal Mexicans.
Stop giving us a big "R". Black, blue, yellow or red, we want
illegals to go home and get in line, then we can welcome them back with the rest
of the LEGAL immigrants. Today my wife's step mother is receiving the oath in
SLC. I guess she will have to resign from her job. A job Americans won't do.
We ALL are expected to follow the law -- unless we are illegal aliens. Why?If fair for one is fair for all, when do I get to choose the law I want
to break?Why does the business owner feel they have some right to
pay less than the legal and prevailing wage for any job? Why do they feel they
have some right to hire those who are in violation of our laws?Why
does the business owner have no compassion for the 100,000 unemployed citizens
in our state? They tell us to have compassion for those that intentionally
break our laws, yet no compassion for the unemployed citizen? Why?
@danaslc: "Look at the jail records everyday and tell me how many are
really deported."Someone calculated deportations amount to a
mere 1/2 of 1 percent.The effective way to deport illegals is for
them to deport themselves. How is that done? Enforce E-Verify. No police
action required. Without jobs illegals will go home.
It seems that our corporations are paying a ton of money for this type of
reporting. We all know this is baloney. Look at the jail records everyday and
tell me how many are really deported.
Once again, some of you are laying the fault for this problem on the USA. If
the governments of other countries would or could provide jobs, security and
decent healthcare instead of stealing everything they can, many of these folks
would be glad to stay in or return to their own countries. These people have
the same unalienable rights we do, they just have no one to make it work for
them. Did you ever think about that?Every major civilization that
has allowed uncontrolled immigration has fallen so far that most of us cannot
even remember their names. If we don't provide something and some place for
others to step up to, we will fall to their level.
Led Zepplin ll; At least in the Western States, the largest majority of illegals
are Hispanic--from Mexico and other South American countries. Other people who
enter this country from other foreign countries ARE treated the same way. It is
the law of the land insofar as people who enter this country illegally. The ones
who march, appeal to the ACLU, and call attention to their
"mistreated" condition are from Mexico/South American countries.
That's what we hear about, read about and live with so it would appear they are
not discriminated against. There are only so many more of them in this country
Let me guess. All of them are hispanic. Only Hispanics can be illegal according
to people in the Republican party. If you are going to have laws apply them to
everybody. Dont discriminate.
The majority of people here illegally don't work on farms. TMR, we don't need
illegal immigrants to harvest food. We already have guest worker programs, as
others have said. The pro-illegal folks jump right to farming, and
ignore the fact that the majority here are in construction, housekeeping,
janitorial, grounds keeping etc. All jobs that are taken from Americans. Doesn't citizenship mean anything anymore? Can we blame this generation
for not feeling patriotic, or being proud of our citizenship in this country,
when we are willing to give it to anyone who breaks our laws to come here?It looks like the major media is out to change America, and how we look
at our country. The greed of cheap labor has done America in. Unless we wake up,
they will sell us out completely.
Some folks think this all about something they call "fairness",
whatever that is. "Leave these poor people alone" one poster said.
These "poor people" have committed a crime by not obeying the law.
Some Americans think that this is a zero sum game where there has to be a winner
and a looser. That is what the Democrats say but it is not what most
conservatives believe at all. Balderdash. No one I know seriously
thinks we can or should send them all back to where they came from. What we
should do is first; ignore the Democrats who want to make this a good versus
evil thing. That is pure political sophistry. Second, get control of those who
are here illegally. Document them and handle them as one would for any
misdemeanor and then make them chose whether they are here for work or something
else and register them.
At the risk of defending myself in such an unfriendly group of posters, let me
explain just a bit. I was raised on a farm in Utah. Illegals were needed then
and are needed now. Deport all of the illegals in this country and you will
wake up tomorrow, my friends, with very little to eat. They have rendered a
tremendous service to this country and deserve our gratitude, not our
condemnation. In my experience, they generally are more humble, gracious,
polite, and hard-working than are U.S. citizens.
NeilT, My family has worked the orchards of Utah county, back when
they were plentiful. We worked side by side with Navajo's, people with 50%
unemployment. Some of my family started out as visa workers (from Mexico) until
they earned their citizenship after years of work. It was worth it to them. Your family had unlimited visa workers available to them, like all
farmers do. If they are having trouble, it's their own fault. We
have 12-30 million people here illegally, if farmers have shortages now, then
the illegal aliens have reached the point where they won't work on the farms
either. What's a fair farm wage? Go to the site for the H-2A visa
and see the guidelines.
NeilT, I think you could have found enough labor if you'd pay a decent wage.
There is no job Americans won't take if the price is right. Unfortunately,
illgals knowingly bid wages way down so they can get the jobs.What
is a fair wage for farm labor, you asked? A fair wage is whatever it takes to
get an American citizen to take the job. And we have about 15 million sitting
home on their couches, drawing billions in unemployment benefits (up to 99 weeks
worth) when they should get off the dole and get a job.
@RRB"The majority of Americans want our laws enforced."I would have to disagree.If this were true, the majority of
Americans would be recalling most of their elected officials in Washington and
locally for blatant law breaking of the Constitution that they raised their hand
to the square to obey. Disobedience to the law is the very reason why we are
suffering as a country today, but we seem to be okay with it.I
suppose the reason Americans do not demand true obedience to the law is because
they really don't know the law themselves; except of course the laws pertaining
For the law-abiding, working immigrants who have not yet achieved legal status:
Give them legal status and get them on the tax rolls. We need them, our economy
needs them.1. Give them legal status2. Close the borders3. Increase by 4-5X the number allowed to enter legally each yearThis would help our economic problem AND would allow us to act like the
citizens we should be - compassionate, smart and willing to admit our mistakes -
fix them and move on. It is as much our fault as it is theirs that
they are here. The system we have allowed to develop encourages them to come.
Let's fix the system, embrace our new immigrant neighbors, benefit
economically and be able to hold our heads up knowing we did the right thing for
other human beings. It's a win-win-win.
They are here illegally & they know that they are here illegally. With that
mindset, & coming from countries where laws are often ignored & bribes
are commonplace (and expected), ignoring & violating the laws in their new
U.S. community is a way of life for many. For example, driving a
stolen car---"I didn't steal it, it's my cousin's & I'm only driving
it." Driving an unregistered and/or uninsured car--"It's not my car.
My cousin said I could drive it." Now, most of us would never be in those
circumstances. We would check out ownership first.Another
example--registering a child for school. Proof of residency is typically
needed, & they often forge or get someone else to forge a document stating a
residence. Also, with the confusion over names it's not uncommon that they
register someone else's child as their own (while the parent is in jail or
deported).Free and reduced lunch forms at school--full of
"inaccuracies" & completed by an illegal alien!And,
medical bills. Here in Az they use the ER for just about anything, & they
walk away from the bill. Our facilities are bleeding out!Lawbreakers. And they know it.
This is about the Democrats bolstering their voting block at the expense of law
and order. But then they always think what they want to do is more important
than the rules. It goes back to the hippie days of free love, drugs and rock and
roll when scoffing at societal norms was cool and expected. Now as adults, these
same people have integrated their irresponsible ways into the way government is
Dear TMR how clueless you are. My brother was approached by an illegal. This
illegal told him he would work for less than what he was currently paying his
other employees. My brother told him to leave. The illegal said he would work
for less than minimum wage. My brother told him to leave. The illegal then
said my brother could pay him under the table. He only left when my brother
said he would call the police if he didn't leave. I simply do not understand
what you and others cannot comprehend about what the word illegal means. Years ago in Arizona when they passed a law to punish employers who
hired illegals many left. All of a sudden these jobs they had were filled by
law-abiding Americans. Wow, so much for that mantra, "they take jobs
Americans won't do." At Swift in Northern Utah thousands
applied for the same jobs the illegals had when the Government raided the plant.
IF they want a job let them do exactly as my grandparents did.
Follow the rules and the law and we will welcome them.
@TMR How absurd. Leave these poor people alone. We need the labor and the
expense of deportation is a waste of valuable resources. Obama, you know better;
quit caving to the hateful right.Folks this is from Lost Angeles
illegal capital of the Country who I might add is Bankrupt. As John
Wayne said: "Head em up and move em out"Cheap labor is
misnomer. It is a way to shore up the bottom line. it has nothing to do with a
lower price. My biggest expense in my business is gasoline. Come on
folks all of you pay so I can have cheap gas!!!
The laws need to be enforced. As far as TMR's comment, calling the right
hateful, he/she needs to get over name calling. This issue is not about hate
but about common sense and the law. We are a nation of laws and if we chose to
follow some laws and not others then chaos will ultimately rein as all law then
RRB I grew up on a farm and we could not, I repeat could not find locals to
harvest crops and do other manual farm labor. We needed immigrant labor,
period. By the way what is a fair wage for farm labor? Oh by the way I thought
Obama was a marxist socialist who was soft on immigration.
If any illegal comes to the attention of law enforcement such that they end up
being locked up in jail, then I don't think it really matters whether they are
committing serious crimes or, as the mayor of Boston would say, non-serious
crimes like stealing cars. That is an illegal that needs to lead the rest on
his/her way home. Call it bad luck if you like, but they have no right to be in
our country in the first place, so sending them home is just a normal result of
TMR - "We need the labor..." How is that unemployment rate
looking? If our need is labor, wouldn't it make sense to put citizens to work
before the non-citizens who will send a huge portion abroad via remittances?
63,000 divided by 12,000,000 = .00525 or 1/2 of 1%! Yep, we are
making real progress here! What a dedicated effort.The invasion
That is great news. However I am confused. Does the article mean immigrants or
illegal trespassers? Immigrants are legal, Illegals are ...well illegal and
should be deported as the law provides.
@ TMR - you really must be joking. These 'poor people' are breaking the law.
There's no hate and it's not just the right that expects people to live by the
law. Unfortunately, race seems to be an excuse for breaking the law. However,
if it really was about race, you'd hear "Deport all Mexicans" instead
of "Deport Illegal Aliens" - of which includes all races ironically
enough. Hence the reason the statue of Lady Liberty has a blindfold on. The truth of the matter is citizens of this country (the law abiding
ones anyway) are becoming more and more intolerant of this excuse of hiding
behind alleged racism. If we are not a nation of laws, then we may as well be
Fact: Scapegoating, prejudice, propaganda and hysteria increase during economic
How absurd. Leave these poor people alone. We need the labor and the expense
of deportation is a waste of valuable resources. Obama, you know better; quit
caving to the hateful right.
The majority of Americans want our laws enforced. Our current laws say we deport
everyone here illegally. There is no question here. As for jobs
American won't do, it's been proven that at a fair wage there are none. And
let's not forget the unlimited visas for agriculture. What we are
talking about is business's insatiable appetite for cheap labor, and they are
willing to cripple this country and put 9% of our citizens out of work to get
it. Where is the compassion of our business community?