@DevilishUte "Why are we talking about an onside kick that happened several
years ago?...What's more, it was a game that none of you had a dog in. Why
belabor the point ad nauseum?"That's an extremely ironic
comment since it's coming from the same guy that keeps bringing up BYU's 1984
National Championship as being a sham, most recently on the Uona Kaveinga
article "DevilishUte | 10:09 a.m. July 20, 2011 " (yes, Devilish...I
am stalking you :)That also was a game/season that no Ute had a dog
in. Why belabor that point ad nauseum?Please don't try to go all
"high and mighty" on us, Devilish...we both know Ute fans and BYU fans
alike bring these things up to get a rise out of the other fan base :)It's all part fo what makes this rivalry great!Go Cougars!
Devilish,Please take of the red glasses so that you can see the irony in
your comment. "Why belabor the point ad nauseum?" Exactly, over 250
posts on this article, and half of them from Utah fans who want to belabor a
goal of the BYU football team "ad nauseum". I hope that clears things
up for you. I was only trying to use the story to make a point of how much of a
double standard Utah fans have.
Someone call KWhit - we need an adult in the room. Obviously Bronco and his
childish dreams of grandeur have started all the kids bickering with
eachother...What happened to the Bronco who was just the average
football coach who put respect above winning championships, etc., but now is in
the mode of any great football coach and will stop at nothing to win his trophy?
Give Jim Tressel a call, he has a few secrets.
I don't really care about an onside kick that: 1) didn't involve BYU; 2)
happened years ago; 3) was executed against Wyoming.In fact, I have
no love lost for Wyoming. Not that long ago, I traveled to Laramie to watch the
Cougs battle the Pokes and was pelted by a bag containing human waste. I don't condone Whittingham's actions, but I don't like Wyoming, either.
trew kewg1, sports fan, kewg 1,Why are we talking about an onside
kick that happened several years ago? I thought the article and discussion was
about whether it was a good idea to proclaim your pursuit of a national title
publicly or keep that goal within the family. We get it. You
didn't like KWhitt's decision from 2007. What's more, it was a game that none
of you had a dog in. Why belabor the point ad nauseum?
@Pac12 loves U"Apparently you "Y?" fans don't know
the reason Coach Whitt pulled the Onside Kick while up 40 points. "It couldn't have had anything to do with the waxing that Wyoming handed
Utah the year before in '06, could it? Wyoming was us 31-0 in the 3rd QTR and
ended up winning 31-15.It couldn't have had anything to do with K
Whitt's pride being a litle hurt?Nah...definitely not :)Go Cougars!
PAC 12...BYU fans are fully aware of the excuse Whit used to justify
his bush-league behavior... in fact, Whit wasn't even man enough to admit the
real reason at first, initially trying to justify the onsides kick as Utah just
"needing to practice" their onsides kicking game.Sorry, I
have great respect for Kyle as a former BYU player and as a coach, but there was
no legitimate excuse for attempting an onside kick when you're up by 40 points
in the second half.
"The onside kick was a statement that you just don't make comments like
that against Utah. Joe Glenn ate his words while giving the one finger salute to
Whitt!"What? Worst justification I have ever heard. Beating
them by 40+ isn't enough humiliation? By your reasoning, BSU would have been
justified doing an onside kick with 2:00 left in the game because of the
"girlsy state" comment. It's not like Joe Glenn called out the Utes;
he gauranteed a win while talking to students in the student union building. So
I guess because he didn't tell them that Utah was a much better team and they
should expect a loss, Utah was justified. Whitt must really get his feelings
hurt a lot if his skin is that thin. Hypocrites.
@ SportsFan"Unlike Utah fans, BYU fans would have ripped Kyle
if he'd been coaching at BYU and pulled that onside kick while up by 40
stunt"Apparently you "Y?" fans don't know the reason
Coach Whitt pulled the Onside Kick while up 40 points. Utah was playing Wyoming
in Salt Lake City back in 2007. The week of or day before the game. Wyoming
coach Joe Glenn told boosters and media that he will Guarantee a Wyoming
victory. You just don't do that as a coach, that comment became bulletin board
material for Whitt and the Utes. The onside kick was a statement that you just
don't make comments like that against Utah. Joe Glenn ate his words while giving
the one finger salute to Whitt! Y? fans will argue its unsportsmanlike, but to
Utah fans it was a statement to a coach who disrespected Utah's program. He got
what he deserved!Go Utes! Go Pac 12!
utahcountyute"interesting that BYU offered Kwitt the job first.
Had he accepted, you would be praising his name and saying how great he
is."Actually, you're only projecting your own myopic view of
the world, that "your coach" walks on water and could never do
anything wrong.Plenty of BYU fans criticized Chow before he left BYU
(you should have listened to some of the post game call-in shows), but now that
Chow is a Utah coach, Utah fans claim that BYU fans never criticized Chow while
he was coaching at BYU, and now they've turned on Chow because he's a Ute.Unlike Utah fans, BYU fans would have ripped Kyle if he'd been coaching
at BYU and pulled that onside kick while up by 40 stunt.
"Interesting that byU offered Kwitt the job first. Had he accepted, you
would be praising his name and saying how great he is. You can try and rip on
coach Whit all you want, but it will all come back to bite you in the end. Is
that all you got on Kwitt anyway? lol"Bronco states his goal
for the football team in general. Is that all YOU got? I like K Whit. He is a
great coach, and obviously would be welcome at BYU. I was trying to make a point
as to how hypocritical Utah fans can be. Criticize Bronco for stating his goals,
but not say a word about something as below the belt as what Whit did. Whit
apologized and I think he made an honest mistake; no big deal, but Utah fans
want to analyze and criticize everything Bronco says as it relates to his team.
cougar1...you said"I would rather have a coach that states his
goals over a classless coach who goes for an onside kick in the 4th quarter with
a 40+ point lead"Interesting that byU offered Kwitt the job
first. Had he accepted, you would be praising his name and saying how great he
is. You can try and rip on coach Whit all you want, but it will all come back to
bite you in the end. Is that all you got on Kwitt anyway? lolBronco
and Hypes can "talk" all they want. Does not bother me a bit. Just back it up.
Tomahawk Red"The reason is... it brings a high potential for
harm, but offers very little benefit."I disagree. There is a
benefit when bloggers and rival fans go into a frenzy claiming that "it's
unrealistic", "it's impossible", "it can't be done",
ramping up the challenge to BYU's players to prove the naysayers wrong.One team's high expectations may be labeled "audacity" by opposing
teams, especially when opposing teams don't have those same high expectations.
"That's the debate. Mendenhall has demonstrated his penchant for bold talk
in the past (quest for perfection/band if brothers) so it appears that he can be
a little loose lipped at times."Red,It really comes down
to a difference in philosophy. You and howie prefer coach Whit's approach, and
Cougar fans prefer Bronco's approach. Nothing wrong with either approach except
that Ute trolls like to get their feathers in a ruffle over everything Bronco
says. By the way, I fail to see what is wrong with "band of brothers".
It's no different than MAFU. "Loose lipped"? That would be your
opinion. Personally, I would rather have a coach that states his goals over a
classless coach who goes for an onside kick in the 4th quarter with a 40+ point
lead. Or a coach who puts the opposing teams logo on the urinals in the locker
room. And you criticize Bronco for creating extra motivation for opposing teams
because he simply states his team goals? TCU's Gary Patterson openly stated that
TCU's goal was to win a NC. He even showed the camera the chart on the locker
room wall with the goal.
I think most people are misinterpreting the question. There is
nothing wrong with aspiring to win the championship. No one would argue that.
It's legitimate to question whether Mendenhall should come out
publicly with it. The reason is... it brings a high potential for harm, but
offers very little benefit. BYU's opponents this year may use those
remarks as extra motivation to go out and pound BYU to a pulp. It may work, or
it may not. But why put a Target on your own team's back? Meanwhile, you can
instill the same goals and aspirations in your team if you just do it privately.
That's the debate. Mendenhall has demonstrated his penchant for bold
talk in the past (quest for perfection/band if brothers) so it appears that he
can be a little loose lipped at times.Personally, I don't know how
much I'd like it if Whitt added extra motivation for teams looking to cream Utah
in the years to come. It's a valid argument.
What a hoot, reading all of these silly comments from bitter and jealous Utesies
over BYU's 1984 NC and a coach's comment that he's going for the big one.What really inspires the human spirit are the comments along the lines
of 'we can still lose some games and play in the Rose Bowl'. We can lose a few
and still get a BCS bowl game. Talk about a cop out for mediocrity.Yeah, that's really great, that's a winner's attitude, that really
inspires.Don't change a thing Coach Mendenhall. BYU's football
program is headed in the right direction and we thank you for being at the helm
and correcting the course.I love all the great things that are
coming together, 10 games on ESPN, TV coverage for everything, some great games
this first season, XM and Sirius Radio, an IPhone / Ipad app, BYUtv coverage and
archives, internet coverage and archives, HD for everything... 24/7/365. Can it
get better than this?More wins than U this fall and most definitely
a solid win on Sept 17th!This will be big, Heaps and company are
going to be fun to watch this year!Utes... on the radio!
There are alot of comments that have been posted today and one thing that should
be evedent to any honest reader is that although Utah is a good program and has
had good success the last 8 yrs or so, BYU has by far better numbers as far as
wins, awards, rankings etc and especially when you look at the whole sports
program (olympic sports). BYU is a top notch sports program, no matter who you
compare them to.The ute trolls/BYU haters want to say the reason the utes
got the call to join a BCS conf. is because they have the better program, NOT
TRUE, the stats prove otherwise. You can argue all you want about how important
or impressive the 2 BCS bowl appearances were, (& they were) but that isn't
why they were chosen over or ahead of BYU. BYU not getting into a BCS conf.
doesn't have anything to do with how good their football program is or how good
their sports programs is, (the stats show they are better than most and better
than Utah or Colorado). The reason BYU didn't get into a BCS conf. has nothing
to do with sports.
Gotta give the Ute trolls credit. They get bloodied and battered and beaten
down over and over again and still keep coming back for more punishment. If you
had 1/10 of the passion for your own team as you have for BYU, Utah would
actually have some solid fans but I'm willing to bet that most if not all of the
trolls on here, rarely if ever post on Utah articles. Oh well keep enjoying
your beat downs, I know it was entertaining for me!
@BleedCrimson "Those two BCS victories got us in the Pac 12!"So what got Colorado into the PAC 12?Some fun stats:Since 2004, Colorado has gone 34-49 with 0 BCS bowl appearances and 0 BCS
wins.Since 2004, Utah has gone 69-20 with 2 BCS bowl appearances and
2 BCS wins (good job).And yet....Both CU and the U get invited
to the PAC 12. What's more, Colorado gets more scheduled games on TV than do
the Utes and their premier game against USC gets placed on the ESPN family of
networks (ESPN2) while the Utes big game against the Trojans get relegated to
the mtn 2 (Versus).So, in a nutshell, your two BCS wins got you
stuck in the high chair at the "big boys" table, while Colorado's
horrible football team gets an actual seat that includes dessert.Ouch. Those BCS wins have really helped U become relevant,
huh?But hey, on the bright side, U get to listen to Bill Riley a LOT
this year...hopefully he remembers to tell U the score of the game before the
4th quarter. He tends to forget that... :)Go Cougars!
BYU fans have sufficiently trashed all unworthy/illegitimate opponents on their
2011 schedule.Where it once looked like BYU had 4 legitimate
opponents, they actually have only 3 legitimate games on their schedule in
2011.Mississippi, once, one of the four legtimate teams, has since
become the Vanderbuilt of the SEC West. The prestige that was going to come to
BYU for beating an SEC team has evaporated.Conference USA: UCF, Big
12(-2): Texas, and MWC: TCU remain as the only legtimate teams on BYU's
schedule.If BYU can steal one of those three games, a win against a
Conference USA team or a win against a Mountain West team, a 10 win season is
guaranteed.Again, kudos to Tom Holmoe for scheduling 9 guaranteed
wins.Bronco should easily be able to lead BYU to, at least, a 10 win
Mgr and company just proves that even with a pac invite all they still can talk
about is byu. If your new club is so great why are you spending so much time on
Listen up friends from the hill...Sincere thanks to our many from
the hill for spending countless hours validating BYU's move to independence. If
this was going to be such a miserable failure, you wouldn't have to spend so
much time trying to convince everybody.
IndifferentBronco sleeps just fine knowing that he is returning BYU
football from the Crowton ashes to the glory days of the 80's and beyond. BYU's
entire athletic program has been elevated from the MTN to the Worldwide Leader
"Why does it bother you so much that your big brother aspires to something
higher?"I agree.BYU represents a church we all know
about. That church teaches its members to excel at everything they do and be
the best you can. BYU is living up to the Churchs' teachings it represents by
setting the highest goal it can, by trying to win ANOTHER national championship.
Anything less than that is not living by the standards of the Church. If other
schools don't set their goals for everyone to see then who cares. BYU is proud
to set very high goals. If perfection is not reached and they fall short, then
at least they had a goal for perfection and did their best. If you don't like
this philosophy, then you'll never like BYU because this will never change, and
will especially never change as long as Bronco is at the helm. I'm
very proud to be a BYU fan. Bronco's goals inspire me to set my own goals as
high as I can.
"Best team lost." That is going to be my motto for everything going
forward. Never take responsibility. Blame other, don't give anyone else credit.
How does Bronco sleep at night when the football program has single-handedly
demoted all other BYU sports?
mgr63for fans that the nation can't stand, see mirrior; there's
nothing more despised than a fan who's nothing but a hatertalk about
being exposed, remember7-473-273-26outscored
by a combined 13-100 in their three nationally televised gamesafter
that debacle, it's no wonder the PAC 12 did their best to hide utah from anymore
nationally televised embarrassments
The more exposure BYU gets the worse off they are. I believe church officials
wish that the wwweb was never invented. It has proven to be a real problem. The
nation cannot stand BYU fans, and now they'll be on TV every week? Oh my
goodness?.......every board on the net proves that. Utah will be just
fine......we have some very good athletes there and are well coached. Let's hope
they do well. Go Utes!
BYU has one NC and is making the moves that will create another one. Utah has it's own knitting to worry about and is pretty much not relevant
outside of Utah. It has some respect for it's BCS bowls but those are fading.
There is no reason at this point to expect Utah be be much better
than last year which means middle of the PAC this fall.BYU on the
other hand should get a lot of exposure and make progress over last year. Both have to win or they are just another top 30-50 program. Good but
most of the nation is not going to care.
OK folks, is it a realistic thought that BYU will ever go undefeated
again.......No, it's just not going to happen. Their scheduling woes, having
decent schools scheduling a few games, having to play on the road with very
limited talent and future recruiting due to many factors that impede BYU to
attract "ALL" people.......it's just not going to happen. BYU is a
good school, serves it's people well, but it's curriculum and shortcomings
academically, as it relates to post grad degrees, science, etc......really hurts
BYU's capability to attract a BCS conference. Sure, nobody can deny that BYU has
a good athletic dept........they do. But, in the overall scheme of things they
could only expect to be associated with a mid-major conference.......so they
went indy because they were dissed. Wish BYU luck, because they need it.
The only people in the country you'll find calling BYU's 1984 Championship a
sham are jealous Ute fans (BYU haters). Sad really.
Bleed CrimsonI'm saying Utah should change their fight song to
"Utah Woman", because without the Utah women, Utah wouldn't have any
national championships.After losing in the opening round of the NIT,
Utah won the NCAA tournament, but Army was awarded the 1944 National
Championship. Only Utah fans would try to claim that beating Idaho State twice
and Colorado College once is a national championship caliber season.While Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State, and Michigan were winning
National/Conference Championships playing decent competition during the leather
helmet era. Utah was winning "conference championships" in conferences
that the rest of the country didn't even know existed.Utah's leather
helmet era championships were so meaningless that Utah never once finished in
the final AP Top 20 poll from 1936, when the poll was established, to 1993, long
after BYU and Utah had helped create the WAC.Utahs two BCS wins had
nothing to do with Utah's PAC 12 invite.BYU's consensus national
championship got them into an exclusive club that has only admitted 19 members
mgr63,"BYU got the ESPN deal because of #s. Not how many fans they
have......but because millions and millions want to see them LOSE! Go to the
deep south Cougar fans......see how many football fans can tolerate
BYU.......not many. And, a ton in California as well. "Nevermind the "recommend" button, where's the "laughing
utahcountyute"......the Utes have done it 7 times."a typically meaningless stat by a desperate Utah fangotta
love those 5-0-2 and 6-0-2 "undefeated" seasons, especially that 1928
"undefeated" season where the Utes were SHUT OUT by BYU 0-0.How many of Utah's "undefeated" seasons ended in a national
championship?Or even a Top 10 ranking?
Hey boys, how is the ice cream down in Provo these days? I think after week
three you'll need something "honorable" to brighten your
outlook......sweeten ya up a bit!
@ Snack PAC"Except women's gymnastics and skiing (coed team),
the Utah men have never won a national championship"So, your
saying women's championship sports do not count? Are you being sexist now? For
your information Utah has won a National Men's Basketball Title (1944). "Most of them during the leather helmet era. In the last SIXTY
years, BYU has won 23 championships; Utah has only won 6."So
your saying that Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State, and Michigan's National/Conference
Championships don't count because they were played in the Leather Helmet Era?
logic should tell you that you count your sports accomplishments from the
beginning of your sports history. From the beginning of both Utah and byu's
football history; Utah has won 24 conference titles, byu won 23. Quit spinning
stats to favor you! Record books still show Utah owns the rivalry! There was
football played prior to 1973."Utah has two BCS wins and
virtually nothing else on their football resume.BYU is a legacy
program that has been a perennial Top 25 program for the past 34 years."Those two BCS victories got us in the Pac 12! What has your National
Title gotten you?
Blue,My misunderstanding.By the way, does anyone know mgr's
address? We need to send help; I think he has finally cracked.
Interesting fact:On the list of teams with multiple undefeated
seasons all-time in football, guess which school is not on the list? Hmmmmm....we know it's not the Utes because they've done it twice in the last
10 years. Oh that's right, byU has only done it once.....EVER. btw...the Utes have done it 7 times. I love to hear the talk of
undefeated this and NC that, it just set's them up to fall flat on their face
once again. Nothing new. Just do it and then talk.
mgr63...over a dozen posts on one BYU article by the same
BYU-obsessed 2nd grader.Get a life already.If Utah fans
are content with something less than an undefeated season and a national
championship as your goal, you won't find any BYU fans spamming Utah blogs to
whine about it. Why does it bother you so much that your big brother aspires to
The bowl is so insignificant I cannot even remember it's name?
Hahahahahahahahaha! Man O man?
Cougars1I was only illustrating the track records each team built
leading up to their best seasons ever.BYU 1996, 1983, and even 1981
may all have been better than BYU 1984, but the one thing 1984 did, that the
rest of them didn't, was refuse to lose.BYU's goal-line stand just
before halftime at Pittsburgh, Kyle Morrell's epic line-leaping, backfield
tackle at the goal line against Hawaii, and Bosco, playing on one leg, leading
BYU to a come-from-behind win over Michigan, are the performances that will
forever distinguish BYU 1984, from those other great BYU teams.
"Quest for the Armed Forces Bowl." That has a nice ring to
it.......realistic too......if BYU can stay at .500.
"Quest for the Armed Services Bowl." That has a nice ring to
it.......realistic too......if BYU can stay at .500.
truthsandwich"You haven't come close to a championship by
todays standards"As much as jealous Utah fans like to believe
this, it simply isn't true. The AP determined its national champion in 1984 in
exactly the same way it determined its national champion in 2003, 2004, and 2008
-- by a majority of voters selecting that team #1 in the final AP Poll.BYU won the 1984 AP National Championship using the exact same standards that
exist today.Utah hasn't come close to winning a national
championship by any standards.--Utah finished 6th in the final BCS
standings in 2004 and 2008.--Utah didn't play in the BCS championship
game.--Utah has never been ranked #1 in any major poll, before, during or
after the season.Bottom line: Utah's undefeated seasons are no more
meaningful than any other team's undefeated seasons that weren't considered
worthy of a national championship.
.......38 comments by Yner fans complaining about people that don't agree with
them on "their" board...........poor lil' fellas. Need a tissue blue
truth,Agreed; and if I am going to be honest, I must admit that when Utah
handed it to Alabama, I was wishing it was my boys in blue instead of Utah.
Either way, our local Universities are building a pretty good tradition in
Cougars1Another thing we can actually agree on. Utah was not a good
football team way back when. They had the same opportunity, and it was BYU who
capitalized. I'm really not a hater on that 84 team- all you can do is beat the
teams that are put in front of you and they did that. It wasn't their fault they
were playing in a broken system, and didn't get a chance to play Washington, or
any other good teams. I'm just pointing out that it does not compare to a
championship today, where beating at least one good team is a requirement.Even though we're in a BCS conference, we'll always remember our recent
undefeated years when we were denied a shot. College football deserves a
200+ comments on a BYU article. Look at all of the exposure. Thanks for the
turnout trolls. You want to know what all of this means? More BYU articles.Go Cougs!
national championship?? Well maybe the Y should first tackle Texas and Ole Miss
this year and see how they do. BYU has some good players but they aren't a top
20 team this year - at least on paper. Anything can happen as we saw last year
with the BYU/OU game in Dallas but I just have a feeling BYU is going to start
the season with losses - Texas and OU and perhaps even Oregon State as well. I
don't see the Y being athletic enough to stay with these guys.
Blue,You left out the 96 top 5 team. Probably a better team than the 84
Cougar1"if BYU could win a NC with a 108 strength of schedule,
why couldn't Utah?"Because Utah fans mistakenly believe that a
program with no past history can suddenly win a national championship with one
great season.BYU's best versus Utah's best:BYU
1979-19841979 11-1 #13/#12 - WAC champion1980 11-2 #12/#12 - WAC
champion1981 11-2 #13/#11 - WAC champion1982 8-4 unranked - WAC
champion1983 11-1 #7/#7 - WAC champion1984 13-0 #1/#1 - WAC
champion, National ChampionUtah 2003-20082003 10-2 #21/#21 -
MWC champion2004 12-0 #4/#5 - MWC champion2005 7-5 unranked2006 8-5 unranked2007 9-4 unranked2008 13-0 #2/#4 - MWC
championCombined recordBYU 65-10 FIVE Top 12 Finishes, 6 WAC
championshipsUtah 59-16 TWO Top 12 Finishes, 3 MWC championships
@lonerstar"Washington beat Michigan by more points in the big
house than BYU did at a neutral site." Nice comeback.None of my posts have re-written history, just stating facts that you clearly
find disturbing. And youre exactly right, most of these fans weren't
even alive in '84. So maybe they should stop saying that "another
championship is made so much more plausible because we've been there
before." You haven't been there. You haven't come close to a championship
by todays standards, where beating at least one good team is a requirement.
1984 was a nice accomplishment, but when it gets repeatedly thrown in my face as
evidence that BYU is a few months away from an actual championship (not a
shampionship) I don't mind pointing out a few facts.Bottom line is
we need a playoff.
I love the comments of anti's:"BYU did not beat one single
quality opponent. Shampionship." Yep, not even Utah was worth anything that
year."And now because of the knee jerk actions of holmoe, they
can't even get to the Vegas bowl." BYU wanted to give Utah the chance to
continue their amazing success in that bowl, so they handed it over to U."BYU is like the brother in Napoleon Dynamite, the one who lives in
a van and relives glory from 30 years ago over and over. Really Sad."
Funny, because your pal Bleed Crimson said, "Utah has won more National
Championships than BYU, Utah has won more conference titles than BYU." If
that's not living in the past, I don't know what is!"That is
why Utah is in the Pac 12 and byu is sitting in the corner by themselves
reminiscing." Bleed Crimson, there is a chair in our corner with your name
on it. You are an authority on reminiscing all state of Utah programs so we
need your input. Bring your pals too! We can all sit together and talk about
BYU's past...you all have so much knowledge!
Lonestar, That was a great post. If it was so easy to win a NC pre-bCS,
then where is Utah's NC? They played under the same rules and system that BYU
did, so if BYU could win a NC with a 108 strength of schedule, why couldn't
ute trollsSo you've had your say. You've got it all out. There you
go. Calm down.Nothing has changed.We still have a
National Championship.We still 10 of our games on ESPN.We still won our last bowl game.Feel better?Instead of
trying to tear down BYU why aren't you rooting for your team?It's
hard to respect someone who wants to tear you down and has no pride in their own
team.So in the next article, let's see if you have any new
truthsandwichWashington and Nebraska both decided to play
lower-ranked teams, rather than play the #1-ranked team (both polls).Washington only beat Michigan 20-11, the same Michigan team that BYU beat
24-17.One other little caveat; neither Washington, nor Nebraska, won
their conference championships, which is why they were both available to play in
the Holiday Bowl as at-large teams. How can you argue that a team that didn't
even win their conference championship was worthy of being the national
champion, if neither of them beat the #1-ranked team in their bowl?The poll voters carefully scrutinized BYU's record and every other contender's
record for over a month before finally awarding the concensus national
championship to BYU.But here we have a bunch of whiney, jealous Utah
fans, most of whom weren't even alive in 1984, trying to rewrite history simply
because BYU's reality doesn't match their Utah fantasy.Win your own
national championship; then you can compare whose national championship is more
relevant. Until then, a 1984 national championship will always be infinitely
more relevant that NO national championship.Of course, Utah might
want to start by making winning a national championship a goal!!!
truthsandwich,I agree 100%. We don't have to look too far to find
something we can agree on. More changes need to be made so we don't have
heartburn over a 2 loss team winning the NC while an undefeated team gets
"By making theese kind of statements byu will get noticed good or bad which
i think was byu's whole point"byu116970, You bring
up a great point. I do agree that holmoe and bonko are looking for any attention
they can get... if you can't get it by winning(good) then get it by saying
you'll win (bad).Personally I would think that a religious school
would want to come of as more humble, confident but humble. Instead you get this
sense of entitlement...Again, bab steps1) beat USU2) get
to a BCS bowl game3) win a BCS bowl game
BleedCrimsonToo bad Utah still hasn't figured out how to work the
Color of Crimson into their uniforms, instead of Nebraska Red.BYU's
National Championships are in.... Football Track and
field Rugby Mens Volleyball (3)Womens Cross Country (4)Golf Basketball ('52 NIT, was THE National Championship) Total 12Utah'sWomens GymnasticsSkiing BasketballTotal 20?If U can count Womens Gymnastics,
then BYU can count Ballroom Dancing. About 20 straight years now. Or maybe Drill
Team National Championships.Who has a more balanced, overall
Athletic Program?BYU has 23 Conference Championships in Football in
the Modern Era. (from the WAC on)17 Top 25 finishes in Football.BYU had "9" Top 25 Programs last year. Utah had only 1.Oh yea, Utah, you'll be just fine in the Pac, where Olympic Sports are
King.Sorry Utah, seasons of 8 games, when High school games were
literally on the schedule, and every BYU-Utah game was played in SLC, don't
count. What a pathetic desperate stretch.Give it up
boys, by no objective measure does Utah's historical record measure up to BYU's
in Football and overall all.
@Cougars1"If there are so many who don't like it, maybe they
should lobby a little harder for a playoff. Otherwise, they should just keep
their mouths shut and learn to live with the results."BYU's
Shampionship caused the entire system to be changed- something was done about
it. Strength of schedule actually matters now.I agree though, a
playoff needs to happen. While improved over '84, the system is far from
truthsandwich,"Haha yeah they decided to play a better team in a
bigger bowl, rather than settle for a mid-major in a money-less bowl."Uh, and win a NC if they win. By the time they share Orange Bowl money
with the PAC 10 schools and travel all the way across the country, it probably
COST them money. What a moronic thing to post.
It's interesting how Utah fans like to pretend that college football history is
only relevant since 2004, but if you switch to college basketball, suddenly 1944
seems like only yesterday.The Utah fan dilemma is, if you only count
relevancy since 2004, their once stellar basketball program become irrelevant
and pales in comparison to BYU.The real issue with their football
comparisons, is even if you only count the Bronco/Kyle era as relevant, they
only want to compare Kyle's lone highlight, 2008.BCS Bowl WinsKyle 1Bronco 0Looking at the bigger picture, howeverAP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 2Top 15
FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Head-to-Head 3-3To win a
championship, you have to build momentum from previous seasons. BYU has a
history of doing that, with many back-to-back-to-back Top 25 finishes. Utah has
never done that.BYU won the national championship in 1984 by putting
together back-to-back Top 7 finishes.Even in their greatest football
era, Utah has never even managed back-to-back Top 15 finishes; something Bronco
did in 2006 and 2007.
"To each their own though I guess, and if Bronco wants to make statements
prognosticating that they will win a title when they have no chance is his
choice, it is just not the right one."Papa smurf, If that
is your opinion, it is your right to have that opinion and I respect that.What I want to know is where were all of you haters of stated goals when Brent
Casteel proclaimed his freshman year that he would win the Heisman?
Finally a coach says what he really feels. How many coaches use cliche after
cliche, its old and boring to hear where just happy to be here, or were just
focused on a conference title etc etc........ Does it really matter that
he is saying it publicly or behind closed doors. By making theese kind of
statements byu will get noticed good or bad which i think was byu's whole
point. More people will may watch byu just to see if byu sink or swim because
of theese statements alone, my guess is the ute coaches are saying the same
things behind closed doors. The bigger question is why do you care
uties how would you react to kyle if he had said the same things since the only
real chance you have at a nc is on paper in the near future.
@Bluto"Washington ducked playing BYU"Haha yeah they
decided to play a better team in a bigger bowl, rather than settle for a
mid-major in a money-less bowl.But BYU beat a completely different
Washington team (who had a bunch of losses) the next year, so history is on your
side! BYU did not beat one single quality opponent. Shampionship.
Bleed Crimson"Utah has won more National Championships than
BYU"Except women's gymnastics and skiing (coed team), the Utah
men have never won a national championship.BYU men have won national
championships in football, golf, volleyball, rugby, and track & field."Utah has won more conference titles"Most of them
during the leather helmet era. In the last SIXTY years, BYU has won 23
championships; Utah has only won 6."Utah owns the
rivalry"Once again, most of Utah wins came during the leather
helmet era. BYU has won 26 of the last 39 BYU/Utah games.But the
most important comparisons are these:Major College Football National
ChampionshipsBYU 1 (concensus, all five national organizations; #1 AP, #1
Coaches)Utah 0Heisman TrophyBYU 1UtahNational Individual Awards (Heisman, O'Brien, Outland, etc.)BYU 17Utah 0National College Football Hall of Fame InducteesBYU 7
(six players)Utah 1 (zero players)AP Top 25 FinishesBYU
17Utah 5Utah has two BCS wins and virtually nothing else on
their football resume.BYU is a legacy program that has been a
perennial Top 25 program for the past 34 years.
Starfarer,Ute players and coaches probably do do the same, and hope
for and set goals of a national title. They just dont make shirts about their
QUEST, and they dont come out with their QB and coach and proclaim it to all the
world. Heaps said he was going to win a title in his press conference before he
had ever taken a snap at the Y, or even practiced once with the team. I am all
for having an ego and being confident in sports, but keep it in the locker room
for crying out loud. You make yourselves sound stupid when you proclaim things
like that in public. When players guarantee a victory, then they lose. Sometimes
it does happen, but 1 game is a bit different than pretty much saying that you
will go undefeated and win a national title. To each their own though I guess,
and if Bronco wants to make statements prognosticating that they will win a
title when they have no chance is his choice, it is just not the right one.
"Your program has plateaued since LaVell Edwards retired!"Bleed Crimson,So true. Levell took the kewgs to the Cotton bowl
before he left...since then? a fired coach and Vegas bowls. And now
because of the knee jerk actions of holmoe, they can't even get to the Vegas
"That is why Utah is in the Pac 12 and byu is sitting in the corner by
themselves reminiscing."Bleed Crimson,Not reminiscing,
setting goals that Utah doesn't even have on their radar and getting Utah trolls
all lathered up over it. Look at you morons posting on an article about BYU's
goals. I think I would be more worried about the goals of my own team; seeing as
how you have moved on to the PAC12. Why can't you trolls back up what you say by
just simply not posting on BYU articles. Thanks for the relevance.
truth,It's not about what's true. It's about someone cherry-picking facts
to back up their own opinion.For example, I could cherry-pick and
say that Michigan was a top 5 team that was hit hard with injuries before
getting everyone healthy for the Holiday Bowl. Or that the same Washington team
you claim should have been #1 was beat 31-3 at the start of the 85 season. Or
that same Washington could have played BYU in the Holiday Bowl, but chose not
to. That was very damaging on their part. You get the point.The
truth? BYU did play a weak schedule, but the way the season played out was in
their favor so that at the end of the season they were voted #1. If there are so
many who don't like it, maybe they should lobby a little harder for a playoff.
Otherwise, they should just keep their mouths shut and learn to live with the
@ Bluto "Note ute fans ..... BYU has all 4 of the
"Official NCAA Champion Trophies", right there at BYU's Legacy
Hall.Right along with a Heisman Trophy, Outlands, Davey O'Briens,
Sammy Baugh trophies etc."Utah has won more National
Championships than byu, Utah has won more conference titles than byu, Utah owns
the rivalry 54-34-4. Who cares what byu and Utah have accomplished in their
past. It's all about what you have done lately that people remember. That is why
Utah is in the Pac 12 and byu is sitting in the corner by themselves
reminiscing. You got a sweet ESPN contract which will give you national
exposure. Well so does Utah beginning in 2012 when the Pac 12 tv deal kicks in.
Every Pac 12 game will be nationally televised. Time to come back to the 21st
century. The glory days of byu football are over. Your program has plateaued
since LaVell Edwards retired!
mgr63 | 10:46 a.m. July 18, 2011 Haven't you had enough? You've
been school 5 ways to Sunday.For the love of.....give it
@mgr63That's all you have....Utah is a better school?lol
@Cougars1Then I'm sure you'd be happy to tell me which part of that quote
isn't true :)
Well folks, Utah is a better school and has a far brighter outlook than BYU as
it stands today. Utah is a red state......true?
@truthsandwichWashington ducked playing BYU, they were invited, they
had their shot. Thus becoming the only team in College football
history to turn down playing the number 1 ranked team, for the National
Championship, accepting Orange Bowl money instead. Very next season, BYU beat
Washington 31 to 3.Nice try though. History is not on your side.
BYU is like the brother in Napoleon Dynamite, the one who lives in a van and
relives glory from 30 years ago over and over. Really Sad.
Oh hedgie and mgr63Look at you guys, so cute and cuddly and still
wet behind your ears. Thinking History began with You. You really do think
that College Football began 6 years ago, right as Utah won their first BCS
game.How Convieeeeenent.Well trolls, Storied Elite
Legacy Programs, all over this Land, like BYU, display their NC Trophies (all 4
for BYU), Heismans, Outlands, Obriens, Baughs, Doak Walkers, Consensus
All-Americans, College Hall of Famers, alumni's NFL MVP's and Super Bowl MVP
trophies, every day.Recruits really notice...uh oh Utah, what to do,
what to do?Legacy Teams build Halls, like BYU's, on 3 levels, others
settle for Closets, like Utah's.It demonstrates their
"Achievements" and "Legacy" and "Tradition".If and when Utah ever equals any of these, let us know.
truthsandwich,Bleacher report? Really, that is what you are using as your
source to try to discredit a NC from 84? It's a blog by a nobody. There are also
blogs on bleacher report talking about how Jimmer will go down as the next
Pistol Pete. Any Utah fan can get on bleacher report and spew their nonsense.
For all we know, you could have posted that.
mgr63 | 10:15 a.m. July 18, 2011 My coach always told us you are
only as good as your last game.So, I'll bite.I am
willing to admit that BYU's national Championship was last century if you are
willing to accept that teams are only as good as their last game. Because in
that same line of reasoning, 2008 and 2004 are ancient history too.Wanna play?Yes, utah played a tougher team, but were exposed as
being a terrible team who is on the down slide.BYU played a weak
team and built momentum going into this season.What spin would you
like to play on that?Careful what you say, four years ago in
football is just as bad as 25 years ago."What have you done for
mgr,".that "hardware" in Legacy Hall is antique. Talk about
this century.......then we should talk about the Utes.....they are the real
deal."So, any school with a NC before 2000 is not the
"real deal"? Way to throw out over 200 years of history with your
@ mgr63,If what's happened in this century is really the "real
deal," then why is BYU getting all the TV exposure and Utah not?ESPN knows who's the real deal. You apparently don't. Dream on.
@ mgr63Doesn't matter if those people are tuning in on ESPN to watch
BYU LOSE!! As you say....They are tuning in and ESPN knows that fans
of college football care about BYU winning and losing, which in the end makes
BYU Nationally relevant.The BYU brand is something alot of college
fans know about nation wide and ESPN executives know this.Can't
argue with it....Sorry
@ it is what it is-Bleacher report on 1984:"The Cougars
defeated only one bowl team during the regular season (Air Force), and did not
play anyone who finished the season ranked in the top 20. BYU's most impressive
road win was at Pittsburgh, who finished the season 3-7-1. The AP
probably should've awarded their No. 1 ranking to Washington, a team that went
11-1 and won the Orange Bowl over No. 2 Oklahoma. Instead, the Huskies finished
second in the final poll behind a BYU team that had not truly been tested all
"but because millions and millions want to see them LOSE! Go to the deep
south Cougar fans......see how many football fans can tolerate
BYU......."mgr,Really. What is your source. You are
famous for making up numbers to back up your point.(ie.45 required religion
credits at BYU) Back it up. I have been to Texas and all over the deep south
wearing my BYU apparel, and the only comments I get from people are positive.
You're just making up #'s again.
I made my annual pilgrimage to Mecca (Provo) two weeks ago. My oh my, that
consensus National Championship trophy is an amazing thing to look at. It is so
tall and when the sunlight hits it just right it looked like there were two of
them in the trophy case. It was like a sign from Heaven. I'm pretty sure that
was confirmation that another will be joining it sometime in the next few
years.Maybe once we get the second one we can give the old one to
our little brothers up north. Then they can say they have a National
Championship trophy too.
HedgieSame stale, old, lame arguments.No matter how you
wish it. No matter how you spin it. No matter how many times you post it.BYU is still a Consensus National Champion.Give it a rest.
No matter how much you want to change it. You can't.
@Bluto.....that "hardware" in Legacy Hall is antique. Talk about this
century.......then we should talk about the Utes.....they are the real deal.
"No, what I said is it's impossible for bYu to duplicate what they did 2
1/2 decades ago. bYu will not be able to have a 108 SOS and play a 6-6 (6th
placed big 10 team) in a mid December bowl game and win a Shampionship."Hedge,Changing what you said in your original post that I
responded to is not helping your credibility. The quote above is not the same
thing you said in the post I was responding to.Hedge= Zero
UU702once again you catch yourself in a circular reasoning uties
often fall for.Is anyone saying that we "will" win a
national championship? No.they are saying it is a goal.by parlaying
you bias into the mix, you create something that has never been said. the question is why do you care what BYU has for it's goals? It takes not a
man to belittle another man's goals, but a fool who has no goals of their
own.you tirades are tiresome, because you have no objectivity.
BYU got the ESPN deal because of #s. Not how many fans they have......but
because millions and millions want to see them LOSE! Go to the deep south Cougar
fans......see how many football fans can tolerate BYU.......not many. And, a ton
in California as well.
Bluto,your defense has a bigger hole in it than the titanic."BYU won 24 straight games over 2 years" against WAC
team...."They beat a Top 3 Pitt, a preseason Top 5 Michigan
team"who finished with a total of 9 wins combined....."beat the Pac 10 champ UCLA, in '83, as part of their 2 year winning
streak, the same UCLA team which beat #1 ranked Illinois in the Rose
Bowl."And Utah beat Alabama who went on to win the NC the next
year....."And nobody beat anybody that beat BYU"Because no elite programs played bad WAC teams...
BYU has a National Championship, Utah does not. That's all that it comes down
to. BCS wins are NOT National Championships. There is no way to say they are
close to it. It is what it is. People only remember the champions.
Again, tell me who won the 2007 Orange Bowl, tell me who won the 2009 Sugar
bowl, tell me who won the 2008 Rose bowl, tell me who won the 2004 Fiesta
bowl.... Nobody remembers and they shouldn't because the champion is the true
winner and the only one that matters.
All these ute trolls/BYU haters amaze me. I don't understand why there are so
many posters that hate BYU but have such an inferiority complex regarding
anything BYU that they have to post something negative. Why does it bother all
of you that BYU voices what their goals are? It shouldn't matter at all to you
guys. Your hatred, negativity, demeaning,belittling comments just show your
character and it isn't pretty. Why can't everyone congratulate each other
on their accomplishments, instead of downplaying them. Example: I congratulate
the Utes on having Longi sign to play for Utah, the same could be said for all
the players the Utes sign. Why do so many Ute trolls belittle, or make degrading
comments about BYU's signings or BYU's goals. Does it make you all feel better?
If it does that is sad. I congratulate the Utes on their undefeated seasons and
I hope they can have more, why do so many of you hate BYU and hope they fail?
Grow up people.Bantering back and forth doesn't prove anythng and it just
makes those who are demeaning, degrading and negative about their rivals look
like an immature crybaby child.
@mgr63wow, that's a whole lot of talk by someone who is trying to
convince other people that you are better than they are.Who are you
trying to convince?I have lived all over the US and in a couple of
foreign countries. BYU is not hated as you want to believe, they are
respected.The hate seems to be coming from you, in your own little
world. You should get out more.Dissed?Yep you were.
Talk is cheap...that's why byu breaks the BCS and wins the NC every July.Why don't they get all square with Utah State first?
@mgr63Dissed?That would be Utah, by ESPN, when they
chose which teams they would put on their Blowtorch of a Network.BYU
10 games...Utah none (excluding the coat-tail ride on BYU)Now that is being Dissed!
MgrUm, no, I didn't hear it!
@mgr63Memo ute Trolls....There sure is a whole lot of
Hardware in BYU's Legacy Hall, for all their so called "talking"!
hedgehog | 8:31 a.m. July 18, 2011 Your post makes me laugh.With your reasoning, there has been no national champion, ever.You bolster the BCS which is nothing more than organized crime as stepping in
and saving the nation,I guess they saved them too when they denied
utah the chance to play for the NC in 2008.Thank heavens because we
wouldn't want a playoff, like every other legitimate sport in the history of
sports so that the players can decide who the champion is on the field, rather
than some sports writer, or coach who gets to vote.Good thing that
uties see the BCS as their BFF now.Just cause you don't think that
BYU deserved its NC doesn't make the trophy in our legacy hall any less
shiny.As it has been pointed out, let me help you with a vocabulary
word. Consensus, as in BYU was the consensus NC. It means that all the people
who mattered were in agreement on who would win it. (I guess you didn't get to
vote?)Nice try though. Maybe with a few hundred more posts you can
prove it wrong.Maybe...
@HedgieBYU won 24 straight games over 2 years. They beat a Top 3
Pitt, a preseason Top 5 Michigan team, which when they played BYU, had all their
horses back and healthy for the Holiday Bowl. BYU beat the Pac 10 champ UCLA, in
'83, as part of their 2 year winning streak, the same UCLA team which beat #1
ranked Illinois in the Rose Bowl.And nobody beat anybody that beat
BYUThe fact is this, Hedgi, "EVERY" Major Poll voted BYU
#1.It was not Split nor Debated, outside of Switzer, Gumbel and
Jealous Utes. It was a "Consensus", I suggest you look up
the definition of "Consensus".Utah could not even eek out
a 1 in 4 split in '08.You said: "Thank goodness the BCS
stepped in to bring Sanity to college football or BYU just might have won the NC
last year".Sanity? Really? Like when Nebraska played for the
BCS National Championship, even after having lost their last game in the Big 12
Championship game?So now you praise the same BCS system which left
Utah out in the cold, twice? And TCU/Boise St?Your ignorance
regarding College Football History is Epic!
At whats........because there is nothing more amusing than watching you frail
souls capitulate. BYU was dissed......"DISSED!" Did you hear that son?
"Maybe, just maybe you should stop talking....because few folks outside of
Utah could care less about your ridiculous commentaries."mgr,You would be wise to follow your own advice. Nobody is doing more
talking than you are.
""Sorry, but you can't "do that again"."Hedge,You said the same thing all season long about Jimmer."kewgar 1,No, what I said is it's impossible for bYu to
duplicate what they did 2 1/2 decades ago. bYu will not be able to have a 108
SOS and play a 6-6 (6th placed big 10 team) in a mid December bowl game and win
a Shampionship.Since that date bYu has not come close to having the
qualifications to compete for the legitamite BCS National Championship....not
@ mgr63,If you could care less about BYU posters' "ridiculous
commentaries," then why are you on this board? Sounds a bit
hypocritical.Glad for your support, as misguided as it might be.
The best thing about BYU fans.......they just cannot how to be cool. They
talk.....that is what it has always been......"talk."
All this talk is to get BYU on the NC map this year nothing else. If the
"Y" defied the odds and won all their games, then BCS becomes a
political lobby. Bronco and BYU are trying to get in that picture since they do
not have a conference.
No need for talk Cougar fans......let's see how you do? One thing is for
sure.....not many football fans in this country wanna see you win. Maybe, just
maybe you should stop talking....because few folks outside of Utah could care
less about your ridiculous commentaries.
"Sorry, but you can't "do that again"."Hedge,You said the same thing all season long about Jimmer."Can't"
get past the first round."Can't" beat San Diego State."Can't" win Player of The Year."Can't" blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah."Can't" died in the cornfield along with
you and your credibility a long time ago.
"Just recognize that it rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and not just
Utah fans. Just 4 days ago, an article (BYU Football National Championship
Aspirations Unrealistic) was published to that effect in the national
media."Utah 95,First of all, this is a blogger, not
someone who I would call "national media".Second, it didn't
"rub him the wrong way". He just said that he prefer that his teams
set more realistic goals, which is understandable since he is an admitted Jet's
fan.Third, this is the same guy who said Oklahoma would not lose to BYU in
09, and that he would "bet my life on it".His blog was a
good read. Nothing like the rhetoric that we keep hearing from the ankle biter
Utah trolls on this board.
@ Bluto,GREAT RESEARCH!Most BYU fans probably weren't
aware that BYU was the CONSENSUS NC that year. I didn't.And for
those who think beating a 6-6 team for that championship invalidates it, well
they either weren't alive then to have seen it, have never watched it, or simply
are Ute trolls who could never accept it, thus their feeble attempts to make it
sound weak.Tough! Consensus is consensus, no matter WHEN!
@ Utah'95,BYU fans LOVE rubbing their detractors the wrong way. It's
called "jimmering" when they make predictions and then back them
up.And before you reply that BYU won't back up it's predictions,
that's just a detractor being a detractor, nothing else.I'm amused
by all the RELEVANCE Ute posters give BYU via their comments on these articles.
Cracks me up!Must be an underlying issue here...
Who doesn't want a title?
""Let's do it Again." That's BYU"Bluto,Sorry, but you can't "do that again". You see the two and a half
decades ago Shampionship was played against a 6-6 team. Thank goodness the BCS
stepped in to bring sanity to college football or bYu just might have won the NC
last year...after all, you played a 6-6 team in a bowl game last year.
Bluto"BYU is one of only 19 "Consensus National
Champions" since 1959... the reason BYU has a National Brand and are
considered a Legacy School"Add to that Bronco's goal to add
another national championship trophy to BYU's trophy case and it's almost more
than the folks on the hill can bear; which is why they've worked themselves into
such a frenzy trying to convince themselves that this an impossible goal. It's
much easier to ridicule other programs, than to actually go out and win your own
I agree that BYU as an Independent will just have to win games...1st
: Win BYU/Utah game 2nd : Win marquee match-ups against high level
programs3rd : Try to go undefeatedSimple right...P.S. Heard a great comment on ESPN radio. An interview with David Steele
from the Sporting News, talking about the new NFL CBA agreement and the new
rookie deal for first round top picked players... "This will protect
teams from paying the big contracts to busts like, Ryan Leaf, Alex Smith and
Jamarcus Russel".ohhhhhh ouch!
The only difference between Bronco and other teams and coaches is he said
it...win every game and win a national title. If you don't go out to win every
game then get a new job. I suspect Utes are expecting to win every game as well
and that would put them in the position to be national champs. So say it. I'm a
Cougar fan and I love it that we have two great programs in the state. I am
really looking forward to having the Aggies come to Provo. Who called that a
rivalry last year? Winiing once every ten years does not make it a rivalry. That
was USU's national title game.
@hedgieWhen you "Have been there and done that", the motto
then becomes, "Let's do it Again." That's BYU.When you are Utah, and have never won a NC if Football or a Heisman or
Outlands, etc.. then your motto is..."Maybe, perhaps, if we're
lucky, someday, we just might be able to go to a BCS game again"Which ten teams a year play in.As for Utah "Aspiring" to
a National Championship if Football, their Motto is.."Fredettaboudit!"
@ModerateSince 1959 there are only 4 "Official Polls"
which are sanctioned by the NCAA to dertermine an NCAA College Football
Champion, they are....AP-Associated PressCoaches (UPI etc.
currently USA-T) (Waterford Crystal Trophy)FWAA-Football Writers
Association America (Grantland Rice Trophy)NFF-National Football
Foundation (MacArthur Trophy) In the last 51 years, only
"19" teams have been voted #1 by all 4 Official Organiztions.Many other years there were split titles. Note: BYU was voted #1
in all 4 Polls, and thus were a"Consensus National Champions".
No debate!BYU is one of only 19 "Consensus National
Champions" since 1959Here are the others:AuburnAlabama (3)Florida (3)LSUTexas (3)Ohio State (2)Miami (3)Oklahoma (3)Florida St. (2)TennesseeClemsonGeorgiaUSC (3)Nebraska (2)Notre Dame (3)Penn St. (2)SyacusePittsburghAnd Still.....No Utah!Note ute fans ..... BYU has all 4 of the "Official NCAA Champion
Trophies", right there at BYU's Legacy Hall.Right along with a
Heisman Trophy, Outlands, Davey O'Briens, Sammy Baugh trophies etc.No Utah, these are all Post-Leather Helmet Era, and the reason BYU has a
National Brand and are considered a Legacy School.
" I suspect that no team and its fans spends more time talking about
winning a national championship that has less of a chance of actually doing it
than BYU."Utah'96,Great comment.What
worse is the head coach and AD are say this as well. Talk about amatuer hour.
If Coach Mendenhall and the Cougar Faithful want to continue to talk about
winning another National Championship, it's no skin off my nose. Just recognize
that it rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and not just Utah fans. Just 4 days
ago, an article (BYU Football National Championship Aspirations Unrealistic) was
published to that effect in the national media.I like the idea of
setting goals for things you have control over. For example, going undefeated.
BYU, or any other team for that matter, can't "will" their way into
the National Championship game - they have to be invited. Four non-BCS teams
(Utah, Boise State, TCU, and Hawaii) have gone undefeated seven times in the
last seven years, yet none were given the opportunity to play for the
championship. I'm not saying that it is right, but I don't see it changing
anytime soon.I can't prove this, but I suspect that no team and its
fans spends more time talking about winning a national championship that has
less of a chance of actually doing it than BYU. It's been 26 years since you
went undefeated; do it again, then hope for the best.Good luck!
*one of those 46
Moderate | 8:48 p.m. July 17, 2011 Salt Lake City, UT"He should
have said to win ANOTHER national championship. Few teams can even say
that."By few you mean... 46 teams.Funny, the Utes
aren't on of those 46.
It's ok to set your sites on working towards a national championship, but its
entertaining to me that some cougar fans think this is so much more plausible
because they've "already been there."No they haven't. They don't give out championships for beating teams w/ 6-6 records
anymore. 1984 was a nice accomplishment, but it was accomplished entirely
against sub-par teams. You actually have to play and beat a good team now, in a
national championship game, to be crowned a national champion. The
system is still flawed, but at least strength of schedule matters now. Everyone
who isn't a BYU fan knows that by todays standards 1984 wasn't a championship.
It was a shampionship.
@Afro14 Most BYU fans realize that BYU does not currently have the talent to
get a NC this year. However, the first year or two of independence should
produce enough talent that BYU can start to serious build for a NC run during
the Heaps era. BYU needs a great TE (or two), consistency in the
WRs, and very good dbacks. The rest of the positions on the team are probably
good enough to contend now. The Dline is deep and strong. Ditto for
the LBs. The OL is great a usual, the RBs are good. Heaps is getting better and
will set records if healthy.BYU's coaches are young but fairly
capable. BYU could beat TX and TCU but it would be difficult. TX is
still adjusting their offense to a pro set. TCU has a new QB. Both should have
great defenses. MS, Utah, ORst, UCF and HI are not easy games.Mendenhall has always believed in the spirit and attitude of the team. If they
can get the confidence they can roll in spite of not quite enough talent.A lot depends on the TE/WRs. If they catch fire the D is adequate.
"I just cannot figure out why BYU fans criticize Utah, which is a way
better football program, invited to the "glorious" Pac-12 and
represents the state of Utah admirably."Here's a thought...We criticize utah, because utah fans post on a BYU article trying to
stir the pot. Therefore, it's like defending our territory.BTW since
we are on the criticize mode, utah IS not that good at football period. They had
what 2 great years out of the last 50 or so. Maybe when utah can start winning a
league title on a regular basis maybe utah will be a little more respectable in
the football dept. With utah's history of winning league titles, the PAC does
not need to worry about the ute football program for a very loooooonnnnngggggg
time. But hey, gymnastics has the winning tradition that ute fans can get behind
and support, I am sure they will contribute way more then the football team
will, over the next 10 years or so. Plus utah football does not represent me or
the majority of Utahns, only a select few of diehard fans can claim utah
football as their own.Go Cougars!
@mrg63 Sorry to assume you are a Utah fan. You are most likely a TCU fan. TCU
probably will dominate the Big East but then you know how much respect the Big
East generates. TCU in the meantime has a lot of respect because
they have earned it the last 2 years and they have had great recruiting classes
so they are likely to continue to do well.
mgr,There you go saying things you can't back up again. 08 Oklahoma played
in the NC game and lost to Florida. You need to quit making things up. 09
Oklahoma wasn't bad. They beat Stanford in the Sun Bowl. The same Stanford team
that went to the BCS in 2010. Oklahoma was a healthy qb away from going to
another BCS bowl in 09.You never did answer the question.
@mgr63Your comments are applicable to Utah. You might want to look
in the mirror. Joining the PAC does not change anything about Utah's program
except the amount of money you get. You get NO respect for being an also ran in
a BCS conference. I live in the Big 12 and used to live in the SEC. How much respect do you think losing in those conferences generates? What do
most people think of the also rans in the PAC? Especially West of Utah? When Utah goes undefeated in the PAC then we can talk respect. In the
meantime you are just another schedule filler for the real powers.
It's funny to watch the Utesies get all worked up. They all like to pretend the
whole "girlsy state" fiasco didn't happen and that they weren't just
pounding their chests last year (before the "biggest game in Utah
history") that they would win the NC that year. Silly Utes.
Thanks for the laughs.
"We're confident in ourselves and believe we can go out and have a
successful season this year, and our goal is to play for a national
championship, and we dare someone to say we can't, because we're going to prove
people wrong."You dare me? Challenge accepted. Mr Heaps, you
can play for a national championship, but I guarantee you won't win it, and so
do TCU and Texas. BYU can beat any team on their schedule except those two.
(Although personally I think that Utah, Hawaii, and possibly Ole Miss will pull
out wins against the cougs.) Plain and simple, the cougs do not have
enough talent to win a national championship. They can play for it all season
long, but a 9-3, even a 10-2 team will never win the national championship with
the current system, especially when they have a schedule that's half WAC
cupcakes. Mr, Heaps, (and Bronco) thanks for giving the media and
every other team's fans more reason to believe that BYU has a tradition of loud
@mgr63"I wish [BYU] would set the lofty goal of being a legit top 20
team sometime soon."What are you talking about? Texans should
know the facts. Here are the facts, for four of the last five years, and we'll
be back in the Top 25 again this year.2006 - 11-2 Final Rank 162007 - 11-2 Final Rank 142008 - 10-3 Final Rank 252009 - 11-2
Final Rank 12
"He should have said to win ANOTHER national championship. Few teams can
even say that."By few you mean... 46 teams.
He should have said to win ANOTHER national championship. Few teams can even
Rockmonster, you wrote, Look at BYU's schedule: Mississippi, Texas,
Oregon State, TCU, Utah and a Central Florida team. BYU won't run the table on
that.You have been wrong many times in the past. I predict this is
another time when you are wrong again!
HAHAHAHA! Oklahoma in 08 was way overrated.......worst team Bob Stoops ever had
at Oklahoma and finished the season ranked 47th........just like Bo's Michigan
squad in 84'. His worst team he ever coached their!
mgr63That game against lowly Montana St, is that like your bowl game
against lowly "Girlsy" State?Talk about too much mouth,
not enough game! And you say cougars never learn?
sammyg "Obvioulsy the view is straight ahead and the Utesies see nothing
but a blazed trail to the NC by BYU."The trail blazed by BYU
doesn't exist anymore, just like leather helmets. The new way is called
"The BCS", a strange and unknown place to Cougars. Yes, you could go
for the "AP only" NC, but be honest... if the AP had given an NC to
Utah when they beat Alabama, Cougar fans would say "That doesn't count.
It's not the REAL national title."
U sure are looking defensive and insecure. Why else would you be trolling a team
that isn't even in your Conference? Do U troll the Pac-12 papers trying to
discount their trophies that U don't have?
Hedge-"I beleive the folks out in lil'old Utah only got to see the Iron
bowl. But guess what winning does."Not true. We watched 4
Auburn games. Could have watched more, but had conflicts.
mgr,Ok, I'll bite. 2008 No.3 Oklahoma, and no.18 Oregon State.
Technically not road games, but they weren't in Provo. Before that no.15 TCU
2006.So answer me this, when was the last time Utah beat a ranked
team on the road, besides Alabama.
Why not shoot for the top? nothing wrong with believing in your ability to coach
and your players ability to get it done on the field. I would be worried if they
didnt believe they could win every game. Why even take the field if you dont
believe you can win? Good for Bronco and the team in setting a goal to reach the
top, thats why they play and thats why we as fans watch and hope for.
Rock knows what he's doing. He was laughing when he hit the submit button to the
paper. An article like this stirs up the Ute fan base, they'll say some nasty
things (i.e read the message board), Cougar fans will defend until next Sunday,
they'll pull out every stat they can think, U fans will say BCS bowls, Cougars
will say National Championship, etc.EVERYBODY is guilty of the same
thing, being over zealous for their team.Rock got everyone to read
his article...he's still laughing.
You know Cougar fans, you have two road games that you could easily lose and
then have to face Utah after they only have one hard game and the other one is a
joke against lowly Montana St. I would relax a bit with the
"greatness" talk until you perform. And remember.......one loss and
your season will end with the Armed Forces Bowl.......a real yawner......like
all the other bowl games you have played in, lost many of this century.
"If a team is not on tv will anyone miss them???"KennyG,How many times did you watch Auburn on TV last year? I
beleive the folks out in lil'old Utah only got to see the Iron bowl. But guess
what winning does.
OregonCougarFanIt is what ankle-biters do. But the season comes
soon, so we tolerate them. First rude awakening, Sept 17. Well, actually it
probably won't be the first for Utah, but it will just have to do. Listen to me, sounding all spiteful. I actually believe in Utah, and hope
they do well. But I really am looking forward to getting scoreboard back.
First, win the state...
I wanna have the Cougar fans start speaking about how wonderful they are after
week 6. The annual pre-season national champs should stop the jinx they have on
them by boasting so relentlessly.
This is one pathetic article of troll comments. I thought BYU was in
a ute rear view mirror? Obvioulsy the view is straight ahead and the Utesies see
nothing but a blazed trail to the NC by BYU.I like goals, they
inspire. I could watch Glory Road, Hoosiers, Rudy, The Rookie, Blind Side and
Miracle over and over again.Bronco inspires and that will motivate
his players to do more and more is needed to achieve a lofty goal. Nevermind the
obstacles, nevermind temporary setbacks, nevermind defeat, nevermind the stupid
naysayer comments. Win games and the goal becomes closer.BYU will
win more games this year and will win on Sept 17th.U... not so much
this year and who cares? If a team is not on tv will anyone miss them???
As a Cougar fan living out of the state of Utah, I like to read articles about
BYU on the DN website. Do very many Cougar fans go onto the Salt Lake Tribune
website and make comment after comment about Ute articles? Just wondering
because it seems ridiculous to me that so many Ute fans seem obsessed with BYU.
I can gratefully say that I don't care one whit about what Whit is saying or not
saying about the upcoming season.
I have a new motto for the Cougars: "Walk softly and carry a big
stick". Until you have walked the walk and did your talking on the field,
be careful with what you say as the teams that are preparing for you watch and
listen as well. Right now this talk proves nothing and does nothing for the
program but bring closer scrutiny. Talk first about winning a game and then a
second game. Let your work speak for you and not your mouth. The Cougars are
setting themselves up for a lot of disappointment if they don't measure up to
this talk. One game at a time and one win at a time.
1984 is a long time ago Cougar fans! If BYU was the "real"
deal......some BCS conference would have snapped them up........but they didn't.
I wanna know when BYU will beat a decent team on the road.........when?
"I just cannot figure out why BYU fans criticize Utah, which is a way
better football program, invited to the "glorious" Pac-12 and
represents the state of Utah admirably. BYU does the best they can, which is a
good thing, but Utah is in another "league." Literally, and
figuratively. Stop with the talk Y fans"mgr63:I'm
sure there's a lot you can't figure out - come back in about 30 years and we'll
talk about your glory years.
"I just cannot figure out why BYU fans criticize Utah, which is a way
better football program, invited to the "glorious" Pac-12 and
represents the state of Utah admirably. BYU does the best they can, which is a
good thing, but Utah is in another "league." Literally, and
figuratively. Stop with the talk Y fans.......just win and you'll need not say a
thing. Go Utes!"Uh, mgr, you do realize that you are talking
trash on a BYU article, right?Trolling the BYU boards, calling out BYU
fans for defending their coach from the trools....that's rich.
"Brent Casteel may never live down the flippant comment he made before his
freshman season when he said he was going to win the Heisman Trophy."-Mike
Sorenson, Deseret Newswwookie, nobody saw Utah fans going crazy
about Brent Casteel's arrogant prediction that he would win the Heisman. At
least Bronco is just saying that is the goal. No prediction."We
could go into the rivalry game 0-10 and as long as we win the game, it's a
successful season."-Wes Tufunga, Utah, 2000Now there's a team
that has their sights set high.
hedgehog...I STILL have a man crush on Jimmer, and I'm proud of
I just cannot figure out why BYU fans criticize Utah, which is a way better
football program, invited to the "glorious" Pac-12 and represents the
state of Utah admirably. BYU does the best they can, which is a good thing, but
Utah is in another "league." Literally, and figuratively. Stop with
the talk Y fans.......just win and you'll need not say a thing. Go Utes!
Hedgehog (nice name....)If this is true I assume you've thrown out
your "man crush" jimmer season as meaningless? After all he's a loser
( in your opinion) who's team didn't win it all._____How
is he a loser? Jimmer won THE NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD... clearly he
is not a 'loser' as you say? We all know UConn is the champion but Jimmer is,
wel Jimmer.And for your information, I still have a MAN CRUSH on
Jimmer. And I'm proud of it! Hedgehog, you just got Jimmered!
mgr63"Only one undefeated season against awful teams in their
history..."Call us the first time Utah has a 24-game winning
streak with back-to-back Top 7 finishes and a concensus national championship!
Utah fans are just jealous that BYU is talking about winning a second national
championship, when Utah has never even sniffed their first.Utah
finished SIXTH in the final BCS standings in 2004 AND 2008. As much as they like
to pretend that they were "in the discussion" for a national
championship, the fact is, they weren't even close.
I like the angle on apparel for the " Quest for Perfection " season
@BigCougFanYou are so brilliant. The Utes have two undefeated
seasons, two BCS bowl wins and pounded both opponents in the process
"THIS" century, and are in the PAC-12........and BYU????? Yeppers, a
nice t-shirt collection is all, nothing more.
@ LonestarRunner"You mock rivals who are.BYU: 10
games on ESPN this seasonUtah: 1 game on ESPN (courtesy of BYU)"I see what you mean!Utah has 5 marquee home games this year
against BCS teams.BYU has 1 marquee home game this year against a BCS team
(courtesy of Utah).
Only one undefeated season against awful teams in their history..........why
talk? Because that is all BYU can do. The odds of them having a BCS bowl come
their way is nil. I wish they would set the lofty goal of being a legit top 20
team sometime soon. Just win BYU and you'll silence all the critics!
The Cougars aim high, but the Utes don't even aim.. they just take whatever
scraps they can get. I suppose that if there is no hope then why
set the bar high knowing you're going to fail? I'm glad my Cougars never expect
to fail and always go into the season with high expectations.Go
It is amazing that many have posted what Bronco did not say. Read the article.
He said BYU would again win the NC, hopefully on his watch. Most likely he'll
get it done also.My first post was rejected because the DN
moderating staff got called on the carpet. It appears they are being much less
hypocritical of their own policies since my morning post.Go Cougars!
Go Utes! Go Aggies!
The big question is why are our jealous little brothers still trolling BYU
articles when they supposedly "moved on" over a year ago?
Thank you Ute fans for your continued obsession with BYU. 86 comments so far on
this article that has absolutely nothing to do with Utah and yet at least half
of the comments are from you. Nicely done!As a BYU fan, I want to
say thank you to our administration, coaches and players who have the courage to
aim for the highest and best, both on and off the field. Players who keep the
honor code, excel in academics, and strive to be the best they can be
athletically is what being a student athlete at BYU is all about. If their
goals were anything less, I would be very disappointed. Furthermore, having
once tasted the sweetness of a NC, why wouldn't we want to get there again?
Conference championships have been nice, bowl games are fun, national rankings
are great but once you've been to the top of the mountain, nothing else
compares."Persecutions may rage, calumny may defame, but the
truth will go forth boldly, nobly and independent!"
We're in for some more good laughs at the cougars this year. If I were a cougar
fan, I would be a little peeved that our goal isn't to go undefeated, but to
actually win the championship. Better to set a goal that isn't IMPOSSIBLE. It is
out of the teams' hands to win the championship - unless of course BYU is
willing to front millions in bribes to the BCS (which might not be beneath this
school who believes winning is more important than how you play the game).And to call the cougar team respectful? The most disrespectful team in
the entire FBS is BYU - even the lead-in to the article says tons about this
team and their leadership "the better team lost" in the utah-byu game.
hmmm, not only untrue and unsportsmanlike, but eaking of envy. Lots
of laughs to come...
We got your back Bronco! You can even quote a scripture while you make these
goals. Your coaching is awesome and your vision for the future is our vision
too. We are in it all together, Rise UP!
"The Cougars won the championship in 1984, but that was back when their
toughest opponent was ... well ... they didn't really have one."Well .... Mr. Rock, ... BYU won the national championship. Well ......"You have to aim high to get high and that's how you win."
Unbelievably profound.No one guaranteed a National Championship this
year. I will guarantee on thing, though - utah loses to BYU in September.
roquetman Don't let truth get in the way of your humility. Someone
who fronts an air of self-righteousness should at the least stick to facts and
leave your feelings in the bedroom. "...ever since this whole
independence thing have they somehow become more arrogant, not to mention
serving mammon over God, I'm personally getting sick of hearing about the money.
So good luck in another vain ambition, and the better team winning last year? If
I do recall BYU only beat Wyo and SDSU because of the bad reffing, and if anyone
remembers the SDSU game they had someone cheating for them."You
can throw out irresponsible comments like these without some correction.
Apparently you know nothing about the BYU-San Diego game last fall. You were not
there. BYU did not have someone cheating for them. This is documented fact.And please, Brad Rock, if you are going to paraphrase someone as
inaccurately as you have done, at least try to follow it up with an explanation
of what the meaning of the statement was. (See Bluto's comments at 7:13 a.m.)
Bronco is a very wise coach. Saying that we are playing for the National
Championship is for his own players good, and nobody else. You do not inspire
players by playing not to win. What happens when you have teams who are playing
not to lose, vs. teams that are playing to win? The ones that play not to lose,
lose every time, and often lose big! Anybody who has a winners mind set
recognizes that you must set goals and play to win. It does not matter if there
is a chance to win or not. What matters is the intent of the heart and the
mindset moving towards the goals. I can guarantee this... that is they did not
set a goal to win a championship, they absolutely never would! Nobody wins by
accident, and if they say they did, they are being overly humble, or not
completely honest. So anyway, that is my two cents worth. Play to win boys!
Win or lose, we're behind you all the way! No fair weather fans here! :)
I say let them aim that high. So they end up getting a few at large bids to a
BCS bowl, then perhaps sometime in the future, they get the big invite to the NC
game. I don't understand why people can't just let them have their dreams.
It's not like BYU saying they are going to aim for a National Championship is
going to hurt Oregon's chances. So what! Just live and let live.
@ fresnogirl,"The greatest danger for most of us is not that we
aim too high and we miss it, but we aim too low and reach it."I'll bet Michalangelo was thinking about the Utes when he said that.Considering how much the Ute commenters deride BYU for aspiring so high.Jealousy is a funny thing.
So-called BYU fans who doubt the Cougars' ability to win a NC as an independent,
really are NOT true BYU fans. It's totally possible to do this.If
previous non-AQ BCS busters can get into BCS bowls with the week SOSes they've
had (in most cases), BYU will have no problem, either, because BYU's SOS will
get stronger each year as they evolve from having to use WAC opponents as
fill-ins until they can get their schedules worked out.BYU's
credibility and SOS will both rise in short time to where a shot at the NC isn't
out of the question.The BYU football team will jimmer its doubters.
What would Brad Rock that Bronco would have said instead. The media are
hypocrits. They critize coaches and players for 'coach' speak and they critize
the coaches when they say what they feel?Should he have said, 'our
goals are to win the Utah state championship'. Frankly, i want a coach and team
who sets high goals. But then again, 'turkey's don't know anything of reaching
for the sky.......nice work Rock! LOL
It's funny that everyone wants to rip the cougars for declaring that their goal
is a national championship and thinks that they can't achieve it.TCU
and their coach Gary Patterson did the same thing with the horn frogs before
they were even relevant or had been to BCS games and won the Rose Bowl. And
anyone who says that Gary Patterson and TCU couldn't put together a NC team or
play in the NC game is an idiot.Is BYU where TCU's program is now?
Of course not but it starts with making it a goal and working toward that goal.
TCU is not quite there yet but they're leaps and bounds ahead of where they were
and have 2 BCS games under their belt. Whose to say that BYU could never do the
same thing? Bronco's not an idiot like Rex Ryan to declare that this is the year
that we're going to win the NC. He's saying that its the goal and that it's what
they're working toward and he believes that with that goal BYU will get better.
Reading Ute comments on BYU articles makes me think they are not as secure with
their future as they claim to be. Go Cougs!
"Nobody remembers 2nd, or third place winners, they only remember the
champions."Portland,If this is true I assume you've
thrown out your "man crush" jimmer season as meaningless? After all
he's a loser ( in your opinion) who's team didn't win it all.Got it.
zamboni,"Quite simply stated, BYU talks a great game every year. Utah
takes their schedule one game at a time and gets the job done."You mean like last year? No one was taliking as much as Utah and their fans
last year before the melt down. Classic example of not taking it one game at a
time. Before you criticize someone's ambitions, take a good look in the mirror.
And for the myopic Utah fans who want to try to drag Bronco through
the mud, just remember it was your coach who showed the ultimate arrogance and
classless act when he went for an onside kick in the 4th quarter while up by 40+
points. What goes around comes around. I remember when Utah's only
goal of the year was to beat BYU.
The big question for the Ute's, are they a bunch of quitters like last year. I
think you remember the BSU game. All fight before the game no fight during the
game. So, will the Ute's quit after losing to USC and BYU early? I think they
will along with their bandwagon fans. This isn't a big deal, because Utah only
has fans in little SLC. BYU=WORLDWIDE=ESPN. BYU 9-3UTAH 5-7SAVE IT AND POST IN JAN
Love the way you dismiss the 1984 title team. Remember that Michigan, team was
much better than the one the 2004 Utes played. It had extensive injuries in
1984 that led to the disappointing record. But, those players were well and
playing when they came to the bowl game. And, they played with one objective
injure the qb, which they did, but still lost the game. If every team going
into the season does not have a chance to the champion by its play on the field,
then what does that say about the championship? And, the idea that playing a
bowl which is not for the national championship is anything but just a vacation
and pay day is proven wrong by Utah beating Alabama in 2008. The Crimson Tide
had played their game at the end of the season for all the marbles lost and
didn't show up until the fourth quarter of the meaningless Sugar Bowl game. It
meant something to the wanna bee, but nothing to the "we are the club
What's the deal with Brad Rock? He's looking foolish.
I love it, Quest for Perfection II. Get those old tee shirts out of the garage
rag box.The bad news: not everyone shoots for the NC this year. These
things are multiyear achievement things. Only 20 25 teams have this shot in
part due to achievement in the near past especially last year. Add to that
quality wins over a top 10 team or two. How in the world does one of the BCS
teams on their schedule loose to BYU and go on to play well enough to get into
the top 10?Oh and congratulations, BYU had a close game with Utah while
the Ute QB was injured. Wonder what happens if he is not hurt? Motto: Have
never lost, but did beat ourselves a few times.
That's the last time I'm reading one of his articles.Go Cougs!
"I'm not convinced the best team won" - Bronco MendenhallLook at
the score board.
True Blue:Nice spin, but a but selective, don't you think? How
about:Top 5 finishes - Kyle 1, Bronco 0Kyle and the Utes
put themselves in the NC conversation that year by their play on the field, not
by talking endlessly about it beforehand. He knows you simply don't talk about
your competitive goals in public and in the face of your competitors. At least 6 locker rooms will have his comments on the bulletin board this fall
and Bronco will be reduced, again and again, to saying that his team was better
and should have won.Endlessly entertaining.
anybody remember the Quest? And as someone who is LDS but does not cheere for
BYU these are reasons why, LDS doctrine says not to follow vain and prideful
desires, they say not to be prideful and stiffnecked, and boy ever since this
whole independence thing have they somehow become more arrogant, not to mention
serving mammon over God, I'm personally getting sick of hearing about the money.
So good luck in another vain ambition, and the better team winning last year? If
I do recall BYU only beat Wyo and SDSU because of the bad reffing, and if anyone
remembers the SDSU game they had someone cheating for them. Why did I type this
Des News will probably deny it like always while keeping all the pro BYU
comments that break all their rules....
@ Portland Trail Gangsta:I must admit that I do not know who won the e
2004 Fiesta Bowl nor the 2007 Orange Bowl. I do however know that:The University of Utah WON the 2005 Fiesta Bowl and . . .The University
of Utah WON the 2009 Sugar Bowl. Undefeated 2008 regular season capped off by a
January 2nd Sugar Bowl beat-down of the Hounds-tooth Hat Crimson Tide in the Big
Easy. Man that was great. You should have been there.Pretty good if
you ask me
SoCalUtahFanToo"AP voters have an unoffical
"agreement" with BCS that they will vote for one of the 2 NC game
participants"Nothing could be further from the truth.USC was voted AP National Champion in 2003 without playing in the BCS
BYU's product has been so underexposed during the 21st century that a few years
of overexposure will be welcomed by the Cougar faithful. If the Cougars are
unbeaten when they play the last few games they'll be plenty of eyeballs looking
at the Cougars. Regardless I'll be having my Cougar watching party every game in
2011 on my big screen tv. Quite an improvement over last decade which could be
considered by some as the lost decade on the MTN.
Being a triple war combat veteran I don't know any general or any soldier for
that matter who doesn't go into battle with an advocating desire to win. And
for certain the outcome of who wins and who loses is determined by such resolve.
If you believe that it takes attituded resolve to set and accomplish a
predetermined objective...then the war is half won. It may take a while and
battles will be lost but those who refuse to and never abandon thier resolve
will win the ultimate goal. Any athletic team who does not set those goals high
will never reach that level. If your goal is to only reach the BCS
or return as an also ran... then that is as far as you will ever achieve...If
that is enough to satisfy you then that will be the limitations of your growth
and development as a team. Let's be honest people... before we criticize a
program's stated goals let's at least be realistic. There is no athletic team
out there in the real world who does not have a quest for
perfection...especially as connecting as both Utah and BYU.
10cc"The cardinal sin in marketing is to overexpose a bad
product."That's a glass half-empty argument...The
cardinal sin in marketing is to underexpose a good product.Nobody
cares if a bad Notre Dame is on television weekly, they simply ignore them
during those seasons. But when Notre Dame has a great season, everyone wants to
able to watch their games.
Lonestarrunner:The cardinal sin in marketing is to overexpose a bad
product. If BYU doesn't beat at least most of the big names on their schedule
this year the question asked throughout America will be "how did these guys
get on TV so much? What was ESPN thinking?". (Over exposing even a good
product is frequently a bad thing. Anyone else get tired of seeing Boise last
year? They were on only 6 times)By the time BYU is playing New
Mexico State on ESPN, executives at all the other cable networks will be
giggling and thinking of presents to send to ESPN for the extra viewership.Just as 1984 was the catalyst for the creation of the BCS, the ESPN
BYU-a-thon may become the most convincing argument FOR the BCS in 2011,
particularly if they get handled by a few of those big name teams and then
clobber the weak teams on their schedule in dull games. It will be the primary
topic of discussion.
Cougars - Wise Older Brothers...BYU doesn't have to play in the BCS
championship game to win an AP National Championship...That may be
true in the 1984. But not in today's world.AP voters have an unoffical
"agreement" with BCS that they will vote for one of the 2 NC game
participants as champion--2008 Utah Utes is an example, only a few voters voted
for Utah to make a statement; these voters were threatened with being taken off
the list of voters.This is why I've repeatedly said 2008 Utah, 2010
TCU would win NC in 1980s. And that 1984 BYU would not win NC in 1990s and
Bronco provided Utah with great bulletin board material.Coach M does
have a tendency to say and do things in the summer that set-up the team and fan
base up for disappointment as soon as the Cougars lose their first game of the
I'm not sure who you people think is aiming for the mud hole.Quite
simply stated, BYU talks a great game every year. Utah takes their schedule one
game at a time and gets the job done. So which is of greater value?
Lofty goals or spectacular achievements? I'll buy into your aspirations once
you've accomplished something outside of 1984's fluke.
bigutefan"This is what you do when you know you are not
relevant."You mock rivals who are.BYU: 10 games on
ESPN this seasonUtah: 1 game on ESPN (courtesy of BYU)
I have a goal to become a $Billionaire. My neighbors all know about it. I show
people I meet the photos of the private jets I'll buy and the private islands
I'll acquire. I get up every day and work until sundown. Some people think I'm
a fool, but I just know they'll all be wrong.Seriously, BYU nation
does this every year. It's gotten to be as comical as it is predictable.
They're one of the most ferocious programs in all the land...offseason. Come
October, not so much.2008 is the textbook example of this
phenomenon. "Quest for Perfection" was everywhere, then all the
apparel went back in the closet before November, while the team 40 miles north
quietly made it happen. (We just didn't feel the need to turn the internal team
goal into a line of apparel and put a bullseye on our chest.)Undeterred (but without the slogan), the very next year in 2009 the Cougs were
sure it was their year. Even radio commercials talked about the "BCS
Bustin' Cougs", after TWO weeks of the season.Well, it is
amusing, if nothing else.
Why wouldn't K-Whitt declare the Utes were on course to win the national
championship in the next season or two? Well, basically because
he's not an idiot. That's why. It's moments like this Ute fans have to feel
lucky to have Whitt on the Hill -- let me tell ya.
I can't believe this is a big deal. Every teams goals should be to go undefeated
from USC to Montana St. This crap that Witt would never say this publicly, but
will say it in team meetings to stupid. I don't think team philosophy will
determine wins. That will be the players. Sept 17 = BYU 34-UTAH 17
@ Cougar_Independence | 10:41 p.m. July 16, 2011"1984 is an
excellent example of why you set high goals""Go ahead,
jump" - David Lee Roth
BYU's goal: Win a National Championship!Utah's goal: hope USC and
Oregon are both ineligible; hope to finish ahead of a bunch of weak opponents to
win the PAC 12 south; hope to sneak past the only remaining decent team in the
PAC 12, Stanford, to win the PAC 12 championship; hope to get to the Rose Bowl
with a pedestrian 8-4 record where we will have no hope of even sniffing a
national championship (but, keep our goal secret to avoid looking foolish when
we get crushed by USC in our PAC 12 debut)Then mock BYU for having
the audacity to set "unrealistic" goals if BYU doesn't reach the
pinnacle of college football this season, even though we're too chicken to set
such high goals for ourselves.
From 6-6 and the New Mexico Bowl to the BCS Title game and national
championships! This would be laughable if it weren't so strange.Hey
Bronco, good luck with the "quest" redux.BTW, thanks for
giving K-Whit plenty to hype his boys up with for the September edition of the
Holy War. You know what you said....
Short-sighted naysayers who claim that BYU can't win a National Championship
because BYU will never qualify for the BCS championship game as a non-AQ team,
are forgetting one key fact:BYU doesn't have to play in the BCS
championship game to win an AP National Championship.There are no
secret computer formulas or BCS-biased hoops to jump through to win the AP
National Championship.The only requirement is finishing #1 in the
final AP poll.BYU already did that in 1984 under the exact same AP
rules that exist today.
This is what you do when you know you are not relevant. This change to
independence was not smart, and this is the only way to cover the mistake up is
to convince everyone how great a move this is, its all a publicity stunt. The
truth, they are not even the best independent program, not the best program in
the state of Utah, and certainly will never go undefeated. It's sad, all this
hoopla, it's not reality.
"The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today.
Let us move forward with strong and active faith." ~ Franklin D.
Roosevelt"The greatest danger for most of us is not
that we aim too high and we miss it, but we aim too low and reach it." Michelangelo"For God hath not given us the spirit
of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
It really is true, BYU isn't a BCS team, but they are a national championship
team. They won in 1984, and they will again some day in the near future, and
they realize to do that they have to have their eyes on the main prize. The
National Championship. Nobody remebers 2nd, or third place winners if they win
their BCS game, they only remember the champion. Tell me who won the Orange bowl
in 2007, tell me who won the Fiesta bowl in 2004, tell me who won the Sugar bowl
in 2009... nobody remebers runner ups, only the champion matters. Go
well byu certainly has beat utah every year when it comes to big talk. that's
all they can claim as champions. every offseason they are #1, but the season
shuts them down EVERY TIME it's comical
Oh wow. While I agree that BYU's goal should be to win a national championship
(what other goals can you have as an independent?), it is a FAR stretch to say
that they will do it as an independent. They have to walk a fine line of
playing a hard schedule to be respectable, but going undefeated to be considered
worthy (see: Boise St in 2010). I agree with the author that BYU just can not
go undefeated against the schedule they do have, or will have in the coming
years. Either they schedule too light to get to undefeated and they
don't get respect for their strength of schedule, or they schedule hard
opponents and sacrifice the undefeated season.While I agree with the
goal, it sets fans expectations at a bad level...especially if they lose to Ole
Miss, Texas, or Utah.
Blame it on the officials is not a Ute fan. Nobody cares if bronco
says crazy things. It keeps the fans crazy as well. Everyone should aim high. It
does however make your team a bigger target. Whether it is a t shirt, poster,
commercial, whatever, other teams are always looking for a reason to beat you
down. You would think bronco would have learned. After the first loss, all fans
that dislike the BYU nation will remind them of the silly things that bronco
keeps saying. In fact t shirts will be printed as a reminder. If you
talk the talk.....
re: Moderate | 10:01 a.m. July 17, 2011 "As an independent, it
will be a challenge for the Cougar staff to evolve goals throughout the
season."Big picture & Reality check time: How exactly have
independets fared in the BCS era? **What do you tell the team after
you lose a game, and then another? There is always the assumed goal of
"play well on national TV and present a positive image for the LDS
Church", but how do you get a football player to be excited about
that?**Have a little talk w/ the Bishop or Stake Pres?
If Bronco and the Cougars want to have the remote chance of attaining such a
goal, they wont be able to do it as an independent. Granted theyre better off
for a few seasons than they would be in the disgusting MWC, but the bottom line
is BYU needs to be in a BCS-AQ league to do it. 1984 was an accident in sports
history that contributed to creating the BCS in the subsequent years. BYU has
been 2 decades overdue to join such a league, but the Utes inability to compete
during the 1970s and 1980s held BYU back and eventually out for the time being
as the league shuffles go.
Those who criticise, find fault with or belittle BYU for having the goal to win
the NC are morons. It is just common sense to set high goals and then work to
accomplish them. Any team , especially a team in a BCS conf or a team with a hx
of winning should have it as a goal to win every game and possibly play for a
NC.Those who criticise BYU for their slogan, quest for perfection are just
hate mongers. Everyone should have it as their goal. We may fall short (I know I
do) but it is still the goal. I like Heaps attitude and BYU does have the
quality of players to win every game and play for a NC.
hedgehog"Kinda sad really."Kyle avoids
announcing his goals publicly. Hardly any talk of even winning a conference
championship.Result: One great BCS busting season, and little
else.Bronco has openly declared his high expectations since day one
as head coach.Result: Three very good seasons, but no great seasons,
yet.Bronco: 4 AP Top 25 finishes, 3 Top 15 Finishes, 2 MWC
champioships.Kyle: 2 AP Top 25 Finishes, 1 Top 15 Finish, 1 MWC
championship.There's nothing sad about setting and declaring high
goals.There is something sad about a program that pretends they're
one of the big boys, but is too chicken to declare their goals.The
biggest difference between BYU and Utah, is BYU has been able to maintain a
consistently high level of performance for the last four decades -- 17 Top 25
Finishes in the last 34 years.Utah has occassional breakthrough
years, 1964, 1994, 2004, and 2008, but otherwise, mediocrity. Utah has five AP
Top 25 finishes in their entire history, only once have the Utes managed to
finish in the AP Top 25 in back to back years.
Talking is quite easy--it does not take much effort to talk, does it?Dreaming is even easier--dreaming the impossible dream is also easy.What about the concept of putting these team goals into practice, game plans
and win on the field?The goal of every team should be..."be the
best it can be/play the best if can play every game"
I believe the cougars can do it.I believe.
...Beyond 2011, BYU's schedule includes games against Georgia Tech, Texas, Notre
Dame, Boise State, Utah and Oregon State. If the Cougars scale back to two or
three big-conference opponents a year, and a bunch of WAC teams, I don't see
them getting in the BCS championship game, either even with ESPN's constant
promotion....Maybe it's another reason that they chose Indy--in
addition to exposure opportunity to promote the religion and the school.They always blame BCS for not letting them in a BCS game--let alone a NC.
Every team has a National Championship goal before the season. But most teams
have secondary goals as well. What are BYU's secondary goals?If
they lose to Ole Miss out of the gate, is their season over? (of course Ute
fans will say so) The advantage of a conference team is you get a second
season. You can sluff off losses non-conference opponents because they
"don't count" towards the goal of winning their division, winning the
conference title, qualifying for a BCS game.As an independent, it
will be a challenge for the Cougar staff to evolve goals throughout the season.
What do you tell the team after you lose a game, and then another? There is
always the assumed goal of "play well on national TV and present a positive
image for the LDS Church", but how do you get a football player to be
excited about that?
@mtseatss...I have no problem with Bronco's remarks and find them
moderately amusing...For as long as I've followed Utah football, I
don't any time that Kyle would comment that "the best team lost the
game" after a Utah loss--perhaps, my memory does not serve me right
anymore.(don't mean to be picky...but shouldn't he say "the
better team". Why use the word best? )
Same story every year. Last year the y was also going to go undefeated . . .
and the year before that . . . and the year before that . . . Pass
the kool-aid boys, schedule Heap's Heisman photo shoot and set aside a time in
January for the NC parade. Just don't make any non-refundable deposits for NC
plans as you can wrap up this years daydreaming after the September trip to
Of course winning every game should be the goal that the Cougars aim to achieve.
Winning every game is Utah's goal as well. I have absolutely zero problem with
that statement. Neither do I have any problem with Bronco so unabashedly stating
that the better team lost the rivalry game lat year. He just gave my Utes even
more reason to get fired up, not that they needed it. But ask Nick Saban what
happens when you question the legitimacy of Kyle Whittingham's team. As always I
expect a close game in Pornvo on September 17th, 2011, but this will give the
Utes a decided edge. Utah 24BYU 21
phoenix...It's better to aim for the sky and miss, than to aim for a mud
puddle and hit...well, Bronco always aims for the sky...but then hit
the mud puddle... the best team lost the BYU-Utah game last fall
...sounds like very sore loser to me.I'm going to quotes
someone here...."...1) Good team usually finds a way to
win game even though they did not play well the whole game2) Well coached
team practiced, practiced and practiced hard for the block-FG situation (and
other special plays)3) Good coach makes good play calls --ie the blocked
FGOn the other hand...1) Bad team sometimes finds a way
to lose a game even they play "well" almost the whole game2)
Not-so-good coach doesn't make good callsIn summary, the better team
won the rivalry game even though its QB was playing hurt. ..."
You have to aim high to get high and that's how you win.
I love that the Cougars announce their goal of a national championship... It
ensures disappointed Cougars every single year.
Hey Bronco...If your team can't execute a simple field goal blocking
scheme, you're not the the best team on the field.
Go Cougars.... Take State...
@om"My money says that BYU will be the "best
team"...the best team ever to never win a national championship, or even
come within a whiff of it."1984.Utah has never had
a whiff of a national title.
Kinda sad really.Even Army can look for the season ending game
against Navy for motivation and ND can rally around the USC game late in the
year.ByU needs Utah more than ever. Having said that,
I'd like nothing more than Utah to drop bYu ( atleast annually) for more
There is nothing wrong with aiming high! It gets the fans thinking crazy
thoughts. Also puts a bigger target for which teams use it as motivation to
humble the bronco disciples. There is simply not enough talent in
Provo to make it happen. Don't stop dreaming. Need something to keep
the fans chomping at the bit.
Who ever accomplished anything great by being tenative, frightened of taking a
risk or playing it "safe"? Only eagles rule the sky, chickens scratch
about, safe on the ground where they belong never daring to be great! BYU dares
to be greater!
No matter how ridiculous the odds, every individual that steps up to the craps
table or purchases a lottery ticket believes they can win the big one. Besides,
given Bronco's insurmountable situation, what else would anyone expect the man
to say? I have no problem with Bronco's remarks and find them moderately
amusing. Go Utes - Beat the Buffs!!
Gee, think I have written about this before.ute fans love to make
fun of the Quest shirts, The ankle bite BYU fans for believing, hoping and
wishing. They say that BYU fans are the only one's who say they want a national
championship every year.The real question should be why don't you
utes do the same?Look, I don't care if we never win another NC under
the BCS system. All I care about is shooting for it, playing our guts out, and
doing the best we can. The system is corrupt to say the least. Until there is
a true playoff, there is no real national champion. The NC is a gift bestowed,
not earned.So ankle biters, why doesn't your team have quest
shirts?Why are they not men about their goals?if utah
would have had the guts to print the quest shirts before their undefeated
season, I would give props to their manhood.Goals are goals. So
before you go out disparaging BYU for having them, ask yourself, why your team
doesn't have the same goals?
Seems like all the cougar faithful are in lock step again. Haven't they chanted
this every year since 84' from February to August only to be brought back to
reality in September to December?
Gee, think I have written about this before.ute fans love to make
fun of the Quest shirts, The ankle bite BYU fans for believing, hoping and
wishing. They say that BYU fans are the only one's who say they want a national
championship every year.The
High risk, high reward, anyone up for Notre Dame?
I have no problem with the goal of winning a National Championship. And if it's
a goal, then you have to start to develop confidence that you can achieve that
goal. The same goes for other aspects of our lives. Individuals and
organizations who set high goals and work to achieve them, often reach them.Will it be difficult to achieve? Absolutey.But BYU is
beginning to develop the talent and the depth to make a National Championship a
possibility. We've always had talented players, but I don't remember ever
having this many talented players where we have depth at every position.Will it take a few lucky breaks? Absolutely.Even if BYU is
undefeated in the regular season, and there are two undefeated teams from AQ
conferences, BYU will be playing in a BCS bowl but not for the NC.But if there are only one or two teams with an unblemished record, and BYU is
one of them - they may have a shot at it.Personally, I think BYU
will be stronger in 2012 and 2013 than they are this year. This is still a
young team, working to reach their potential. The future is bright. Go Cougs!
No problem having "HIGH EXPECTATIONS" but I just don't see BYU ever
winning a National Championship with their WAC opponents on their schedule.
I don't have a problem with setting a lofty goal. I wish my Utes would do it
instead of settling for being in the middle of the pack. We spout off about all
our accomplishments after we have achieved them but I've never heard coach Witt
talk about National Championships at the beginning of the season. Maybe even he
doesn't believe in the teams ability to reach a goal that high.
Hey, Rock, you play one game at a time, especially when assessing one team
against the other in direct competition.Bronco's statement that the
better team lost last game is absolutely right. So, how about
accepting the fact and quit stirring the pot to get a lame reaction from readers
like me.The Cougars ended up a better team than the Utes last year,
and now they'll leave the boys on the hill in the dust despite Utah's lofty(?)
status in the PAC-12.
What other choice do they have? Other than win every game.
RE; "Wow. Looks like Bronco has bolted the stable.Welcome to the new
and unapologetic Cougars, still polite and respectful, but darned if they don't
have a touch of Jim McMahon in them."Wow. Thats what I want to
see as an ambassador of the church. I guess this years cliché will be
every player wearing sunglasses and a white head band. The horse bolts the
stable when its spooked!Oh, pass the weak sauce, need to spice up the WAC
The real goal is to play well enough to get into a BCS conference.
@RockDoubters and Cynics only "Report" on Sports.Winners, on the other hand, have actually played the game. It's
amazing how guys who have never so much as earned a High School Letter, are so
Negative, while Champions (Heaps) dare to dream big, because they have been
there and done that, while the Uncle Rico's of the World, only wish they could
have.Before any goal is realized, it must be envisioned first. To
say that a BYU, down the road, after having busted the BCS once or twice (as
Bronco clearly stated) could not compete for a NC, is nonsense. They said the
same thing in 1983 and 1984.Rock wrote that Bronco said (the best
team lost the BYU-Utah game last fall).That is not what he said!Brad, you stated this on the radio the other day, it was not true then
and it is not true now.When will reporters stop paraphrasing and
just give the quotes?Bronco said; "I'm Not
Convinced the Best Team won" Hardly an emphatic statement as
you have portrayed it to be.So convince him Brad. He's open to
persuasion. Stop spinning others words and just give the quotes.
It is a proven fact, over and over and over; in finance, in sports, in life -
that it is far better to aim for the stars and hit the mountain top than to aim
for mediocrity and fail to achieve even that. Write it down, mark it
up, shout it from the press-box and the practice field, but keeep it in front of
you. Work hard, sacrifice, fight through the pain and exhaustion,
but keep it front of you.There is NOTHING wrong with aspiring to
play for the National Championship every year, whatever your affiliation. And
those who chide others for having such aspirations simply do not understand the
laws of success and should not be listened to.Go Cougars! Go Utes!
Go Aggies! . . . and don't listen to the naysayers; you know you can.
There are alredy indications that the new BYU setup will attract some better
players (non-LDS) than they would have signed before. Won't take long to reach
the tipping-point, if this continues.
No, nothing wrong with high goals--except announcing them to everybody. You'd
think Bronco and SDS would have learned that lesson in '08, when TCU and Utah
cheerfully ended "The Quest".Einstein was right: Insanity
is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
Right-on Rockmister. Go for it Bronco and Jake. And thanks for being honest.
Many of your detractors say it is ok to have the goal, but keep it within the
team; don't make it public, ie lie to the public.
Let's see, what has changed?In the past, if we lost a game or two,
we still ended up in the same bowl. Now we can lose up to six and end up in the
same bowl.In the past, even if we only lost one game, we wouldn't
end up in a BCS bowl. In the past, if we had gone undefeated, and at the
end of the season we were ranked number one, no matter why, and we beat our
opponent in our bowl game, no matter who, we would be national champions.That seems about the same too.If Bronco keeps it a secret,
and doesn't say it out loud, would any of his critics decide to like him better,
change their allegances, actually start to be civil?No, that seems
about the same too.So why change now?
Although rather improbably, I do like hearing coaches and players occasionally
talk about wanting to win a national championship. I appreciated his success,
but grew tired or hearing LaVell sound as if he didn't care much about winning
his nonconference games. Why even play those games then?
Good for BYU and good for Bronco. I for one am glad to hear about goals set
high. It is too bad that some critics thing playing for the NC is too far away.
Well, they and their team should aim to simply participate for the green
ribbons. Go Cougars.
It's better to aim for the sky and miss, than to aim for a mud puddle and hit.
Why not have a quest for intelligence. Perhaps a whole group of commenters could
be taught. They might develop some.
It's better to aim for the stars and only make it to a couple of planets than it
is to aim for low earth orbit and achieve the goal but never do anything
exciting or memorable. If we were intent on mediocrity, we could have re-joined
the WAC and been practically guaranteed a lower tier bowl game that would
actually cost more than we made. How much better to stretch - to challenge
ourselves against some of the best. We might lose some but then again, we might
win some. Once in a great while, we might even have a magical year like 1984
when the chips fall our way and we accomplish the "impossible dream".
And every little boy or girl wants to be president of the United States someday.
Hyperbole is the BEST THING EVER, Bronco. "Best team lost"
the rivalry game? Only if you're drinking that blue kool-aid can you say such a
thing with a straight face. My money says that BYU will be the
"best team"...the best team ever to never win a national championship,
or even come within a whiff of it. Recent history does not shine favorably on
the team from Provo. And future scheduling doesn't shine favorably either.
The goal every year should be to go undefeated against those on your schedule.
The team appears much stronger than last years and the opponents, at least the
Texas schools, have chinks in their armor. The key to going undefeated is to win
in Texas. If the team does this, the rest is doable. Following 2 years, Cougs
should be a lot stronger. I predict a BCS game in at least 1 of the next three
I can see why someone would set a goal that high. I can also see why someone
would think it is stupid to set a goal that high. All in all, I think Bronco is
right on this one. Something spectacular is usually acheived through goals.
Jimmer's goal wasn't to play on his high school basketball team, or even on a
college team. It was to play in the NBA. Apparently it wasn't too high.
Why not have a Quest for Perfection? Perhaps a whole line of apparel can be
produced and sold.
BYU aims for national championships, and 1984 is an excellent example of why you
set high goals.Good for Bronco and good for BYU!Go