The Desnews is a little jumpy with their sensorship. Wow! I can't believe some
of the posts they keep off. Disappointing.
Once again I plead, references please and it wouldn't hurt to use spell check
while your busy spewing intelligence.Evidently some of you have no
intellectual idea the legislative history of the social progressive
individual[s] you are so proud to blindly follow. I think Steve
Largent could expose your former majority leader, Freedom Works CEO [Armeys]
track record for you.
What are the freedoms of Freedomworks?1) Freedom to exploit the
ignorant.2) Freedom to take advantage of the weak.3) Freedom to
deceive the trusting. 4 Freedom to encapsulate powdered pine bark and
grape seeds and sell it as a miracle cure.5) Freedom from regulations.6) Freedom from taxation.7) Freedom from liability for amputating the
wrong leg.8) Freedom to process diseased cattle for human consumption.9) Freedom to go back to laissez faire and caveat emptor.
Too bad there's no organization called CompassionWorks. If there were, neither
of these senators would make the cut, nor any of our other representatives with
the occasional exception of Representative Matheson.
"So, has Hatch really swung back to the Constitutional Conservative
position?"No. He is an authoritarian pseudo-conservative, and
he does not really mind a big government (the very same big government that the
Constitution was intended to restrain).
Several posters have asked us to tell us what Hatch has done that we don't like.
Well here is a very small sampling.Hatch sponsored or co-sponsored
85 earmarks totaling $127,075,000 in fiscal year 2010, ranking 28th out of 100
senators.Hatch said this " six years ago, it was standard practice
not to pay for things,"Now he says, Ultimately, Utah taxpayers
shouldnt be footing the bill for other states." Funny how hes been okay
with forcing people from other states to pay our bill for years.Hatch has said the individual insurance mandate is unconstitutional. but in
1993 Hatch co-sponsored a health care bill that included an individual mandate.
A jobs bill with a price tag of $17.6 billion Sponsored by Hatch.He never tried to block judicial nominees until the tea party came after
him.SCHIP was like goverenment health care that Hatch supported.He voted for tax cheat Guithner. He voted for Bush's stimulus.If you like the things he has done vote for him.But most don't look at his
record and have no idea of what he's passed.
Some of the comments against Sen. Hatch would be substantively credible if the
authors actually understood and exposed the legislative process at minimum and
revealed the propaganda agenda source they are beholden to, if you dare.This quasi debate would be less nauseating if backed by historical
legislative facts revealing the rest of the story rather than postmortem bumper
To facts_r_stubborn | 11:03 a.m. July 15, 2011Kaysville, UT Are you absolutely SURE it was liberals who got us into this mess? I was
there and still remember a two-bit B-Movie actor named Ronald who started the
ball rolling. The rolling ball was pushed along by a flock of corporate shills
who all had a big R beside their names on the ballots.
Facts - you do understand that government spending held steady in this country
as measured as percentage of GDP for 50 years, until Reagan became president and
it began to spike. Claiming one party or another started this whole
thing is just living in a false world of simplicitude. My side is good, their
side is bad. How rediculas of a proposition is that.I equally find
it ironic that the tea-party types liked to point out that Hatch last week had
raised money from outside the state... and yet here they are with open hands
going after support of an outside lobbyiest group that has no roots in Utah.
Double standard perhaps?And to whom ever spewed that FreedomWorks
was a left leaning organization, that is really a frightening comment... becuase
there just isn't too much more right winged than FreedomWorks... save it were
anarchy or totalitarianism.Scary stuff that people get so wrapped up
in this that they will believe what ever media outlet they listen to that much
without fact checking a little in the process.
So far all the tea party groups have accomplished is unseating conservative
senators with conservative senators who yell louder. When they have unseated
President Obama, taken control of the Senate with a 60 seat majority and solved
the entitlement problems which are the true cause of deficit spending, then they
can crow.Until then they are taking us to the brink of default for
the first time in our nations history. If they succeed in taking us there,
economic recovery and reducint the deficit will be infinately more difficult.
And that will be the least of our problems.If they deliver, I'll eat
my words. Until then the tea party groups are the second greatest danger facing
our nation and freedom, next to the liberals who take the top prize for getting
us into this mess in the first place.
I lived in UT when Hatch first moved to UT to run for office. I met him, and
shook hands with him, at an informal address he made to a group of students at
Utah Technical College (the name at the time). As I have moved around the
country over the years I maintain strong friendships in SLC, visit frequently,
and, as a strong conservative, track Senator Orin Hatch's career.Hatch displays a mindset typical of those inside the beltway. His core is
plastic emphasized by statements like, "I can work with Senator Ted
Kennedy," or "I can work with Senator John Kerry." His vote is
directed more by "go along to get along" rather than a strong
conservative heart. I am surprised he has lasted as long as he has. I am also
surprised that he hasn't had a long lasting epiphany from previous close calls
at the GOP primary conventions.I do not believe Hatch is the
conservative some, including himself, claim him to be. He is just conservative
enough to schmooze the Utah electorate. Yes, it is time for a change.
@ Ultra BobDon't think that I am not aware of the two parallel
governments that we see at odds with each other; a very strong corporate UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA and a very weak Constitutional united states of America.
Educated and wise Americans pine for a vibrant Constitutional government. The
blissfully ignorant will never understand how even intelligent men like Orrin
Hatch were carefully enticed into this matrix of corporate entitlements at the
expense of humanity.There is no boogey man. I agree with you there.
We don't need one because we are surrounded by real live bad guys. They're not
boogey men. They are politicians, lobbyists, bankers and flag waving voters that
really don't know who they are voting for. And sadly, they ALL work for the
corporation. For this, I am obligated to apologize to my kin for doing my part
in letting this happen.
What a goal- "something while in power" thus acknolwedging that you
will not be in power forever and even setting the bar low enough that you will
acknowledge you will will loose power- sounds like a place I should invest my
money- lets do something while we can but in the end we will loose- sounds like
Dick Armey's career in a nut shell- take what I can and then take more later if
I get a chance
Why do these politicians get so entrenched that they can not see the writing on
the wall and can't make a decent decision to benefit the people? Hatch needs to
realize he is in trouble and do the people of Utah one last service-spend his
time, effort and considerable war chest to help us elect a GOOD Republican
senator rather than risking handing his office to the democrats. Why is he being
Please, when disparaging Sen. Orrin Hatch, prove your fiscal, socially
progressive, ethical, divisive intelligence by citing examples of your
transparent rhetoric supporting your mindless accusations.IOW, back
up with facts what you spew. Senator Hatch would love to have the power he is
being accused of, this country would be a .... of a lot better than it is if he
did.The tea party IE freedom works is nothing more than the Obama,
Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Clinton, Carter and on and on and on politically ravenous
wolves in sheep clothing, using the holy wood Mr. Chaffetz and Mr. Lee as case
study. They have not and will never be in a position to make a difference
because they are professed one termers?.Freedom works wants nothing
more than to retire Sen. Hatch so they, the social progressives will have more
power to do what they want with Utah's energy resources and public lands and
[the family]. Please pardon the grammar I am a product of public
education, NCLB. So I suppose I actually do fit in.
Jonathan Eddy | 8:41 a.m. Do you recall when your parents apologized
to you for the National Debt. I can't seem to remember such with my parents.
As a matter of fact, despite hearing about the national debt all my adult life,
I cannot point to a single event or problem where the national debt effected my
life. Just what is it that you feel the need to apologize for. Other than that
mystical intangible thing that the politicians and hucksters keep talking about.
Is it just possible that your children will chastise you for being
distracted by a phony boogey man and ignoring the real problems of this nation
and thus allowing the loss of freedom and rights under the government by
corporation. But it may be too late to apologize then.
Senator Hatch is a great man and a great senator. However, it's time to retire.
He'll be eighty when he runs againf or a six-year term. His desperate campaign
to hold on to his job is really beginning to look pathetic. I hope he'll
reconsider rather than get humiliated at the convention. I think that's the way
The most important and first lie in this article is the omission of the first
word in the name. It should read BusinessFreedomWorks.Another lie:
"Every time government acts, it does so at the expense of individual
liberty." The truth is, whatever freedom we have comes from the collective
government of the society we live in. Without government we would have no
rights and no freedom."FreedomWorks is all about the same
things that prompted me to run for the U.S. Senate and that same principle which
motivates my every policy decision here, which is the idea that freedom isn't
free," The business lobby is extremely expensive.Lee said
during a recent phone call. "Freedom is something we have to look out for
and protect; freedom is something that is fundamentally at odds with government
action". In this statement Lee ignores the part of the Constitution that
is the Preamble and the Declaration of Independence that says: "That to
secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men".Some
of us hope that people will see these lies and rebuke the Tea Party false and
Sometimes feelings are very important and you should follow through on them.
So, has Hatch really swung back to the Constitutional Conservative position?Time will tell and it will just be a few days before we can see how he votes
on the raising of the national debt limit. Will he vote to not
raise it? Does it make sense to keep getting and using more credit cards when
you are facing bankruptcy? His vote on just this one issue in my
opinion will tell voters all they need to know about Senator Hatch now.I think I can safely predict that he no longer has the political courage to go
against the establishment Republicans. Spend and spend, tax and tax! Its still
time for a Tea Party!
I agree totally with Jonathan. Couldn't have said it better. We all let Hatch
get away with government becoming too large and taking away our freedoms and
making our country go bankrupt. It's very hard for me to have any kind word for
When people get involved and learn for themselves how our elected officials have
voted, they will not "need" organizations like "freedom
works" to do their research for them.That is the crux of our
nation's problems. People sit back, watch the thirty-second political
advertisements and make up their minds to vote for smiling Senator Hatch because
he "looks like a senator". Looks can be deceiving. Mr. Obama looked
great and sounded great but he is woefully inexperienced. Senator Hatch looks
great and says all the right things, but just look at his ENTIRE record. He has
helped cause our financial crisis. We don't need Senators who dig our financial
grave. It's time for him to retire, whether "Freedom Works" says so
I'm surprised to read that there are only 1 million people in the tea party
movement. That is only .3% of the population. There are more people than that
who believe in a hollow earth populated by blue reptilians. With all the press
they've received, I thought that there were about 100 million of them or a third
of the population. Most of the people involved in this movement seem
egregiously uninformed. Don't they realize that cutting government means
cutting jobs? Until this year, government workers felt secure enough to still
be making major purchases, i.e., cars, houses, etc. I wonder how many tea
party members own business and are wondering where their customers have gone.FDR got us out of the depression by raising taxes on the wealthy and creating
the WPA, aka government jobs, putting people back to work. When working people
have money, they spend it and it ends up back in the pockets of the wealthy.
If the government doesnt step in to keep it flowing, all of the money ends up in
the pockets of just a few.
My children and my children's children have a life of huge debt waiting for
them. They are basically slaves from cradle to grave. Why? Because I trusted men
like Orrin Hatch (I am as much to blame for this as he because of my blind
trust). He has cared more about special interests than my children. I let him
ruin my children's future while he was having fun with his friends in
Washington. I'm sick about it and now I will spend the rest of my life
apologizing to my kids. But I will not let it end there. I will
punish Mr. Hatch. I will scold him for being a foolish steward. Then I will fire
him. Then I will do my best to fix what he messed up by finding men and women
that know how to govern by Constitutional principles, just like my original
forefathers did. Finally, I will continue to beg forgiveness from my family for
believing in Orrin Hatch. I have no animosity toward him but I need to let him
know with my vote that he let me down.
Mililani Hl:I accept your opinion GLADLY and appreciate that you may still voice
an opinion. Professional politicians(as I feel Hatch has become)seem to be
geting closer to ending some of those freedoms. These types of leaders seem to
be more interested in their personal careers than in the people. In the state I
reside in, we were blessed enough to have more conservative leaders in the last
election. I attribute this in great part to the Tea Party. I have attended
meetings(have you?)and have discovered nothing that would encourage anything but
freedom. As far as Huntsman and Romney go..they are already distant in some
ways, to me. I am very glad for that. Personally, I would rather Huntsman have
waited and not competed with Romney...wonder why he did that? Seems strange...
Would it not be s good time to review the reasons why Utah did not receive as
high a rating by freedomworks as it could have? It seems to me that Utah was too
much like Bedford Falls and if it were more like Pottersville it would have been
ranked much higher by this "freedom" loving organization. Their
version of freedom leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I feel like eating
manure to get rid of it.
Does anybody really think Jason Chaffetz would better represent Utah than Orrin
Hatch? I mean, Hatch shouldn't have expanded entitlements over the past 30
years, but he seems to understand that now, and has the seniority in the senate
to get a lot done. A junior senator will be pretty far down the pecking order
and that wouldn't be good for Utah. Term limits don't work very well in the
senate because of the benefits of long tenure.
[ FreedomWorks is ... chaired by former U.S. House Majority Leader Dick Armey.
]Which is why I say this tea party nonsense is a poor attempt by the
Republican Party to rebrand itself.
Old school republicans have had their chance and their lack of passion for
conservative principles hurt them. Voters who lament the defeat of Bennet and
perhaps Hatch and who chose Obama can thank themselves. Obama's policies,
appointments, and lack of love for America and our capitalistic system scares
the daylights out of conservatives who have thus awaken with a vengeance. We
have cause to fear for our children and grandchildren. Voting to remove old
timers from Washington is our best -and apparently only - effective option!
If FreedomWorks supports Lee, then it shows that it has no credibility at all.
Hatch has become a dinosaur of sorts and out of touch. I'm sorry but the time
has come for him to move on in life. Thou he has done things over the years it
just hasn't been happening for him in the last few years and we need so new
blood and ideas. The status quo has got to change now. I see that benefit in Lee
now that's why I'll support him at this time. Sorry Mr. Hatch you've been a good
workhorse but it's time for you to go.
Not too many flashs left in the far right wing pan.
Dick Armey makes tons of money from his new profession as he and his
organization use the poorly informed people who protest the government while at
the same time relying on its benefits. And $13,000+ from FreedomWorks won't
make any more difference than money from other sources. Yet Hatch is willing to
sell his soul to the pernicious tea party. This whole situation reeks of
hypocrisy and is the germination of the the seeds of tyranny. The poor tea
party people are being used and they don't even know it. The winners in all
this are the wealthy and the corporate interests, while the rest of us lose not
only our financial position but our personal rights. The threat to this country
is coming from the right, not the left.
Hatch's situation just underscores the need for the Tea Party to remain active
in the years ahead. Nothing motivates a politican to keep the "minimal
government faith" more than a threat to his re-election. Because Sen.
Hatch didn't have credible opposition all these years he drifted into RINO
Hatch doesn't get it. And that is astounding to me. He has been and is a
brilliant politician, but he just doesn't get it. He makes sweeping statements
about what Utah politics is and what Utah politics isn't and he doesn't see that
Utah politics have changed.He has lots of money. This is reported
as though it is the full answer. But he has been on the prow of the ship that
has slowly been taking us to economic disaster. WIll he vote against a debt
limit increase? Of course not.Hatch has the same attitude as Bennet
had: "I know better than the people." When he fails to come out of
the primary then he will know that his arrogance was without foundation.
May the Readers be reminded that these two gentlemen are not personally going at
each other; its the Tea Party Organization whoever they are. I hope that these
political differences brewed by this organization or certain leaders of this
organization will not cause any hard feelings between these two fine leaders. I
am seeing the same thing this Tea Party organization is doing to Mitt Romney and
Huntsman. This wise maneuvering by the Tea Party is causing a division between
these great leaders. But, does this Tea Party really care about these gentlemen
or is it for a much deeper and darker political reason to get all of them out of
the nations political arena because they are Mormons?I am very weary of
the DIRTY POLITICS going on in our nation. Please Help!
This is the deepest foundation of why I have such extreme distain for the Tea
Party. I believe in some of what they stand for. I say this because it
illustrates what the TPers lack, which is the ability to see the other side of
different issues. You do not have to compromise on everything, but if you
compromise on nothing you will be part of the problem, nay, THE problem that
exists in Washington DC.I admire Senator Hatch because he can see
that knowledge and ideas can come from all minds, not just those deluded by one
party (TP).If you are inflexible, you will be temporary. As polls
have shown, the majority of the US population are not extremists on either side.
Example: only 20% of the population think the debt ceiling problem can be
addressed by spending cuts. In fact, a supermajority (67%) of the nations
population believe we should have tax increases as part of the plan for the debt
ceiling solution.The TPers will be short lived, but they can really
make problems for the US. Look at Ross Perot. Clinton was President with 43%
and 49% of the vote because of Perot.
FreedomWorks' support for Lee and not for Hatch shouldn't be surprising at all.
Yes, Hatch has done a lot of good and he USED to be conservative. But in more
recent years he has sometimes buddied up to liberal senators in various
big-government causes. Then he has come home and condescendingly scolded us
when we disapprove of his freedom-eroding ideas.Now he's appearing
conservative again - especially after seeing what happened to Senator Bennett.
But personally I don't trust him, because I don't think conservatism is in his
heart any more, and I think we're naïve if we re-elect him.I'd
rather have a senator who is a principled conservative, not one who merely
becomes conservative when re-election time rolls around.
If Freedomworks and Lee think the people of this country are going to stand by
and just watch the social safety net be decimated they've got a few things
coming. There will be a massive revolt. This could be Hatch's ace in the hole,
but it probably won't happen soon enough to save him (and then remember this is