In "the world" folks tend to like edgy, impure art and candidates for
President, that is why Mormon's stand out, they are not conflicted, trying to
have both goodness and badness at the same time.
To Grace: How would you feel if you found out on judgment day that Joseph Smith
was a prophet called of God and that the Book of Mormon really was hidden by the
Prophet Moroni, son of Mormon, for whom the book is named, to come forth in the
latter days, and was in truth another testament of Jesus Christ? I think you
would feel exactly as Saul of Tarsus felt when he received a vision of the Lord
Jesus Christ, who asked him, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? It is
hard for you to kick against the pricks". But then might it be too late
for you to change your life, as Saul (Paul) did, since your earthly life at that
point would be over. I offer that only as a question for you to ponder. I
testify that Joseph Smith was (is) a prophet of God and all the revelations he
received were from our Heavenly Father. He said once, "I never told you I
was perfect, but all of the revelations I received are from God".
Huntman and Mitt, dualing Non Mormon, Non Issues. Claim the fame but have no
OnlytheCross & Grace (probably the same person)"My point is
that even Muslims with their great heritage, millenia of persecution for having
strange doctrines & practices, and telling the world that only they have the
truth, could put on an impressive epic of their history, and Christians would
still object to the message of their pageant, right?"As long as
they preach tolerance, love, and peace I would have no problem with a
"Muslim production." It is when they preach "death to all
Infidels" or "join Islam or die," that I would object. There is
nothing in the LDS message at the pagent that is offensive or oppressive. It is
uplifting and bears "good fruit." So, no, I really can't understand
the hate and intolerance from many of the protestors. Are they really that
insecure in their own religion that they have to go out of their way to try to
discredit the Mormon faith with distortions and mistruths? I appreciate their
right to protest, but just don't ask me to understand it. I just find it very
When did Jesus ever protest anyone's beliefs. He simple taught the truth. If
you object to me enough to protest, spend your time spreading your
"truth" as Jesus did. It is a mean, Satan led, individual who wears
away his life kicking against the pricks. Love the sinner - hate the sin.
Really, only in one church would folks donate this much? And "even if it's
not true"- what a way to live?Let me introduce you to the rest
of the world. I've lived in fabulous communities whose divorce and suicide
statistics don't come close to any of our states. I have Muslim friends who are
horrified at the rampant immorality of our society and schools into which they
have immigrated, fair Deseret included. My dear father could not believe that
the Univ. of BYoung, where he had sent me from the California of the '70's, had
to expell students for breaking the school code of conduct.My point
is that even Muslims with their great heritage, millenia of persecution for
having strange doctrines & practices, and telling the world that only they
have the truth, could put on an impressive epic of their history, and Christians
would still object to the message of their pageant, right?Having
passed out literature at events where I object to the message, may I help some
here understand that it's not the good communal lifestyle of the LDS that is
being protested. It is simply Joseph's original message on the BoM Introduction
For another perspective to be shared here, (from another BYU Humanities
major):There seems to be two opinions being expressed here. 1- The
quality is great. No one has belittled the production value or dedication of
the Pageant and its players. 2- But many have tied in extraneous analogies
with their kudos of its quality. They have been upset that anyone would dare
object to the pageant, but have given no information on why there is
protesting.While many religious productions can be fabulous, with
great effort and expenditure involved, the message is the focus. I feel that
point was missed in all the fuss about the protestors. What is their complaint?
Why does the man come so far to object to the Pageant? I think we
can all agree that there are many devotees who give much of their time and $ to
worshipping their beliefs. Consider the life-long sacrifice of Muslims, who
actually risk their lives in just the Hajj (trek) to Mecca. But their sincere
experience around their sacred Kaaba, Abraham's temple to God, cannot be equated
with the truth of their claims.I propose that you allow people to
object to the message without offense.
Thanks for the feedback Lone Star. Luckily, like WaybackCougar, I don't rely on
pageants to increase my testimony.Thanks to sixpacktr for reminding
us what dedication it takes for the performers and the local church community to
host such a production.
Remember folks, there is no such thing as bad publicity. Thanks to all those
who attempt to denigrate the Church overtly or covertly.
The first time I saw the pageant I felt the same as Truthseeker. All my life I
had heard how amazing it is. When I finally saw it, I felt it tried to do too
much. While impressive in its portrayal of epic scenes, it lacked an
interesting, coherent story. I felt much the same about the Manti pageant. I
guess they're not for everybody but I'm glad there are some for whom they are a
gateway to joining the Church. Personally, I prefer to visit Palmyra
when it isn't overrun with people and am fortunate to have had that opportunity
several times. A quiet walk through the grove followed by contemplation in the
Palmyra temple is better than a thousand pageants.
I was on assignment yesterday as it was one of our ward's days to act as
security. Got to sit on top of the hill by the monument and look out over the
landscape and watch people as they came up the hill to see the view and look at
the monument. All I can say is that the look of happiness on everyone's face
(and not some 'cult-like trance' happiness, but true happiness) on everyone's
faces was very heartwarming. As my SS teacher said when I was a teen long long
ago 'it is true, but even if it isn't, can you imagine a better way to live?'I had the opportunity to speak to a cast member yesterday, from Indiana,
who said that only in the church could you convince people to 1) spend their 2
week vacation in Western NY in a play, 2) have them work from 8:30 a.m. to 10 at
night rehearsing, 3) have them pay all of their own expenses, 4) have them pick
up and clean the chairs after the last performance and 5) have them consider
themselves richly blessed!What a church!
Dear Truthseeker - go to the Nauvoo Pageant. It is live and extremely well
done. The actors and production is truly top-notch. Then, please visit all the
sites there and your testimony will increase. It truly is a wonderful place.
By the way, you will see "the dogs yapping at the caravan" there too.
But I feel sorry for them.
Listen to your wife. Get back to where you belong, bub....
Reading my great, great, great grandfather's journal the other day about when he
came to the U.S. via New York, of course. He mentioned the names of various
plays he attended in New York, including one called "The Mormons,"
which he enjoyed. So, really, history repeats itself.I must say
when attended the Palmyra Pageant 15+ yrs ago I was a little disappointed. I
was expecting a live production, not a lip syncing act with no live dialog or
singing. Guess my expectations exceeded reality. Is it the same with pageants
I can't help but wonder if the Hill Cumorah Pageant would win a few Tony's of
it's own, if only Hollywood would even consider a peek at the event!
I took a friend who happens to be Catholic, to this year's Mesa AZ Easter
Pageant. And when he ran across the street to get some water, he was
confronted by a couple of these protesters. They were quickly silenced when he
proceeded to explain to them that he was a guest of an LDS friend, and he was
Catholic.And how disgusted he was to see someone claiming to be "true
Christians" come to a beautiful non-denominational religious program (the
story of the life of Christ) to spout off their ignorant and crude rhetoric.He told them he'd never seen such a thing done at any of his church's programs
or activities! Yay to our Catholic friends!
My parents joined the church after seeing this pageant 50+ years ago. I'm glad
the Times shone a little spotlight on this amazing, spiritual production. The
antis will always be there protesting, but the spirit overpowers anything they
come up with.
I wonder what the point of mentioning protestors is in articles like this. I
think the New York Times would get a better picture by just ignoring them.
It is a miracle that the Hill Cumorah is LDS owned, with a grand story told of
how that was accomplished. I can't help but thank the Prophet Joseph for
Article of Faith 11: We claim the privilege of worshiping...dictates of our own
conscience...allow all men the same...how where or what they may. The USA, only
country in the world where we have this freedom so extensively. Thank you,
Father in Heaven.
Yes, he will miss here in the hereafter.
@Hitterite: Haha, pretty much the only thing this humanities major remembers
from college geography is that the Hill Cumorah is a drumlin formed by glacial
ice movement. But what a exceptional drumlin the Hill Cumorah is! Glad the
pageant is getting so much publicity.
It's still just a drumlin.
* ....one man who protests at the pageant every year despite the fact that his
wife of 30 years is LDS. When asked how it is to leave her in Florida every year
while he travels to Palmyra to protest the religion she loves, the man said:
"'It's a heartbreak every day.'""'I tell her I'm
going to miss her, and I love her,' he said. 'She says the same.'" *Sounds like a marriage made in heaven. I wonder how these lovebirds
found each other. It must have been interesting to be their kids.
"....including one man who protests at the pageant every year despite the
fact that his wife of 30 years is LDS. When asked how it is to leave her in
Florida every year while he travels to Palmyra to protest the religion she
loves, the man said: 'It's a heartbreak every day.'"==========================Hmmm. The question I'd ask is, "If
your wife is LDS and ,presumably, believes all the stuff you're protesting in
Palmyra, why not save yourself the pain of separation and the long trip every
year and simply perform your protest in front of your wife?"So
many birds with one stone.
We were there (in New York) last Friday - the stage is as big as our yard (.5
acre)! Twelve hugh lighting/sound towers - 100's of cast and performers - the
special effects were incredible, the message even more so. The two sweet older
local-area ladies who sat next to us said they go to the Pageant every year -
they thought it was just great. They wanted to know if Mormons still practiced
polygamy! They loved the stories and the message.The Lions and
Rotary Clubs told us that they were so appreciative to the Church for allowing
them to set up food stands (funds goes back to the Palmyra community). Mormon
bashers were there, but most everyone just kind of chuckled at them.
It's one thing to dedicate your life or part of your life to proclaiming your
religion. It is quite another thing altogether to dedicate your life or part of
your life bashing someone else's particular religion. Mormons sometimes have
their causes, but I seriously doubt you would see Mormons protesting and bashing
at a Baptist convention.
So this protester claims to break his wifes heart every year as he fights
against the very thing she believes? This is either the most heartless man ever
born or she is LDS by name only. What's his religion? Maybe the wife
should spend the same amount of time protesting his religion and yelling at
members of his congregation. Evidently that would fit his definition of being a
It would have been unimaginable to see this kind of attention and focus on the
LDS church even 10 years ago.TWO members of the LDS church running for
president of the United States...The New York times ongoing articles and
attention focusing on the LDS church.Of course the sleazy play about the
BofM has only stirred up interest from those wanting to get "the rest of
the story".And ongoing publicity programs by the church like I'm a
Mormon, which happens to have been timed perfectly with all the other publicity
going on.So to those who continue to proport that no one really
knows or cares about the church outside of Utah, or that the LDS church is going
to shrink and whither away from all of the outside pressure of society, guess
what, we've dealt with pressure and exposure since day 1. And like they say,
this isn't 1830 anymore and there aren't just 8 of us.
It seems the Mormon religion is intent on lifting others up, sharing burdens,
and teaching Christianity. How misguided can someone be who tries to make life
better for someone else?