Comments about ‘Atlanta teachers aren't the only ones cheating’

As a teacher in Utah, I have never been tempted to help my students cheat on tests, but then again, I don't work in Ogden. Can't wait to see what happens up there.

This is a CRITICAL issue. It is deeply saddening that administrators and legislators have created an environment where cheating is happening so much, and is equally saddening that some teachers would engage in it, regardless.

Yet another brick in the wall of public education crumbles away. Where is the good news?

"Utah has had a couple of cases over the last few years of teachers violating protocol when it comes to administering state tests, said John Jesse, state director of assessment and accountability, but he said most of these are handled at the local level if they do not involve licensure."

In all other instances that I noticed, when the author referred to issues in other states, the word "cheating" was used. Just to be clear here .. are we also talking about cheating in Utah? Why change the lingo just for Utah?

If the teachers cheat, hard to blame students when they cheat.

So....we create an incentive for certain behaviors. A portion of the affected population engages in those behaviors. Why are we surprised?

Multiple choice question in the Army:
Which of the following . . .
a . .
b . .
C!!!! (shout shout)
d . .

I can cheat at work every day and I will make a lot more money. I have a ton of incentive to cheat every day. I feel pressure to cheat. I choose not to cheat because it is dishonest.

End tenure for teachers and keep the good ones.

This should be no surprise. Look around the country at places where government is totally incompetent and your find that the schools are a total failure. Detroit, Philadelphia, Newark are places that come to mind. It is unrealistic to think that school systems in this kind of environment can be successful in educating children. I'm frankly surprised that the Atlanta fraud was ever published in the media. When the leaders of the school system are not qualified to lead, this is what you get.

End of Leve Tests in science are too hard and difficult to understand. Language arts and math ask questions to trick students. The formats change each year. Glad I don't work in Ogden District. Talk about harsh.

Maybe it's time to have the tests administered by an outside group. I hate to think of the logistics of it, but given the ethics today, maybe it's the only way we'll get accurate test scores.

Does good teaching = good test scores? What if the two do not have a strong correlation. What if teaching to the test = good test scores. Or what if excluding weak students from your class = good test scores. What if a bad test = bad test scores (or random test scores). High test scores = a good education is a big assumption to be making.

Not to mention if you create a huge incentive to cheat you will have cheating.

School administration officials should take a large portion of the blame for widespread pervasive cheating. A teacher should not be administering the test in the first place. If they set incentives then they need a system that accurately gauges progress made. Have teachers swap classrooms or whatever.

Just waiting for the Teachers Union to spin this in their favor!

To Gunner and the others who want to rip on teachers: there is no spinning that can take place with this. I feel bad for my colleagues who have resorted to cheating. It is inexcusable. With that said would any of us call a parent a bad parent if one or more of their own kids ends up in prison because they were continually in trouble with the law? Would we call them a bad parent if they raised a child in a loving home but the child got involved in drugs and criminal activity? So please answer me this. How can we call a teacher a bad teacher if Timmy or Susie scores poorly on a standardized test? The teacher is not taking the test. I remember a few years ago our state legislators were offered the opportunity to take the now extinct UBSCT test and only one accepted the challenge. The same test that was going to be used for graduation purposes. A pretty simple test as well and these individuals did not want to. So if we are going to call teachers bad should we not also judge parents as well? I hope not.

EJM: For one I was referring to the Teachers Union and not all teachers. But i CAN call a teacher a bad teacher if they cheat on their students exams for them. That is not what I call a GOOD teacher. If a parent as you used in your example smokes weed and is abusive to their kids I can call them a BAD parent. Your comparison is not even related to what has gone on.

So we create a system where incentives are attached to standardized scores and then we are surprised when people find entreprenurial ways to game the system in their favor- why are we surprised we all seek entreprenurial responses to things we find in our way- some we accept as reasonable and others we are shocked at- really we should not be- better oversight if you want things to work is usually the only real solution- otherwise expect the system to be dealt with so as to advantage oneself- nasty view of human nature but most humans have yet to show me differently

Easy answer:
1. Fire any teacher cheating.
2. Make teachers accountable for their students test scores.
3. Give big raises to successful teachers.
4. Fire incompetent teachers.
4. Stop making excuses for teachers.
5. Stop the teacher propoganda.

I wanted to comment on this school cheating issue because it is so important, in my opinion, with regard to learning and moral issues.
My husband was a teacher in the Los Angeles Unified School district for more than 40 years, and was considered an excellent teacher. At the time there were no specific incentives for teachers, but children were expected to pass the math tests. The state mandated teaching methods to teach to the tests. His school's teachers, after years of studying methods for teaching, with success, found better ways to teach math and submitted their ideas to the appropriate administrators - to no avail.
So, they "taught to the test" as dictated. Teaching to the test does not address critical thinking skills, and we wonder why those who go on to college fail the math entrance exams and have to take remedial math - my husband taught this class at a well-known college. When teachers cheat they are depriving children of the ability to reason, and teacher-incentives cannot work if their students need more help and cannot achieve the desired results in a given time-framework - so teachers and students cheat and think it is ok.

'According to the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, all students should be testing proficient or better by 2014.
"Every time you increase the stakes associated with any testing program, you get more cheating," said John Fremer, a specialist in data forensics who has investigated cheating in several states, in an article in The New York Times last year.' - Article

'The legislation was proposed by President George W. Bush on January 23, 2001. It was coauthored by Representatives John Boehner (R-OH), George Miller (D-CA), and Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH). The United States House of Representatives passed the bill on May 23, 2001 (voting 38445),[6] and the United States Senate passed it on June 14, 2001 (voting 918).[7] President Bush signed it into law on January 8, 2002.' - Cursory Wikipedia search

No child left behind.

Another failed Bush-era policy that others will probably blame Obama for.

When I was in high school back in the dark ages, 100% of my years mark was based on the final exam. For me it worked. The only algebra test I passed all year was the final.

Cheating should be heavily punished.