I didn't realize Holmoe worked at Stanford, but knew he'd coached at Cal...
I Still Can't Say It ... then don't. I've yet to read anything from you worth
reading. Come back to the boards when you're old enough to actually attend
Cougar fans, that's fantastic you're exited about the WCC....The
moves perfectly show the difference between the two schools. One thinks small
(WCC) while the other thinks larger than life (PAC-12).
BYU is about to become a whale in the backyard pond.I do not mean to
say that the WCC is not a solid conference, but there is no question BYU sports
would be better off in a conference like the BIG-XII...if they are after true
athletic competition rather than mere championships. But Texas is not likely
going to be pushing for conference expansion and we know how the Pac 12
feels.Once the Cougars went indy in football, they took the best
available for the rest.Good luck Cougars.
Riverton CougarDon't worry about feeding the trolls. Some boomerang
trolls will return no matter what. They just can't resist the impulse to blather
on. It makes them feel important.
CarnakOK ... that was funny. That was an extremely diplomatic way of
disagreeing with me. Enjoy your weekend.
"HOUSTON Embattled scouting service owner Will Lyles told Yahoo! Sports
that University of Oregon coach Chip Kelly personally approved a controversial
$25,000 fee that sparked an ongoing NCAA investigation and was in constant
contact as Lyles provided the Ducks with recruiting assistance that may have
violated NCAA rules."Howard S; Uteology; etal:Whatever it takes to win, huh? Have fun in the Pac.
Speaking of "boomerang children," thanks for your interest in BYU
athletics, Howard. You almost made it a full day without commenting....
The WCC is not an ideal fit. They were the only viable option at the time.
However, the way they handle league revenue sharing is acceptable to BYU.TX does not like the big 12 playoff as they tend to almost lose to NE
and other teams too often. They do not care about the playoff revenue as they
have other sources. They care about getting ranked as high as possible and the
playoff game in the past has not helped them a lot. There is still
some chance of a new super league forming with TX leading the first super
league. BYU is more likely to get included in that IF it happens. It would be
hubbed around TX, OK and A&M. The problem is where does TX get the other
teams? The PAC, SEC, and Big10 will have great TV contracts making it hard to
raid the good teams of those conferences.If the BCS implodes then
they may be some incentive to reorganize some of the power conferences.
Howard,I had an interesting premonition about recruiting the most
honorable of the best non-lds athletes when the news broke about the devoutly
catholic linebacker that just committed to the Y. Here we are, about to
increase exposure on the west coast 100 fold.Unless of course the
reason the WCC wants us is so their catholic schools can have a better chance of
recruiting the best of the Utah LDS athletes...
BYU in the WCC is about as good a fit as Lady Gaga at point guard for BYU BB.
Riverton Cougar:I fully expect BYU to dominate WCC competition...
After all.... it's the WCC, not a real athletic conference.Do you think those future WCC conference championships will further BYU's
proselytizing efforts among your new conference mates? Oh and
remember, let's not feed the trolls. It only encourages them.
And "like a boomerang child" Howard S. is back making his dire
predictions and criticisms about BYU.
"It won't take long before BYU's new WCC conference mates hold them in the
same contempt as any of their former MWC/WAC conference mates."So Howard, are you suggesting that BYU will win almost 50% of all the
conference championships in a short period of time? That's very flattering!
Thanks for recognizing BYU's athletic program!
It won't take long before BYU's new WCC conference mates hold them in the same
contempt as any of their former MWC/WAC conference mates.
Let's not forget USF, though they have been down for quite a few year they have
had some great teams and great NBA players come out of there.
JustGordon,It is a true delight to my heart that you follow BYU so
much to know all the information you provided. A true BYU fan at
heart, but it is safe with me, I will not expose you to your Utah friends...we
will keep it between you and I.Please, try to keep that same
knowledge about Utah as it joins the PAC 10.2 even when it becomes discouraging
and embarrassing.Remember, even if the information is humiliating,
still having knowledge is a good thing. Good Luck ps.
Very quietly and just for you and I...GO COUGS
Where do you guys get the right to think your better than Boise St? they have
been to BCS games and won. BYU fans come marching in like, "we are better
we deserve better because we have members of the church all over the country and
they will come watch us". The problem is regardless of your record the last
5 years or so you haven't been invited.
@ fresnogirl | 3:19 p.m. June 30, 2011 Fresno, CA Nice
comments because you seem to be a very kind person. However, BYU athletics
deserves to be in a major (BCS) conference. Independance in football (once the
schedule gets beefed up) should work out great (for exposure not sure about BCS
access), but the other sports really deserve to be in a conference superior to
@TrueBlueSure why not, worked for Boise when it found 3 wheels o
missing. But then again Boise was moving up while BYU was moving down.No plans to replace Fresno and Nevada? Didn't the WAC just expand? @Counter IntelligenceJust like classy thing for BYU to do would
have been to let the MWC know that it was doing backdoor deals with the WAC. It
would also be classy for you not to make up stories about attending Ute
games.@StarfarerI agree, every school will do everything
in their best interest. Just like USU with trying to get BYU into the WAC from
the backdoor, only to be punked by the MWC.
I have a hard time understanding why top teams in a conference can like the idea
of a conference championship game. Here's why:1. After going
undefeated in the conference, a team could end up losing to a one-loss team from
the "other side" (upsets happen). That then nullifies their year's
worth of work. Just because the one-loss team beats the undefeated team doesn't
mean they'd do so 2 of 3 times. In other words, winning once against a team
doesn't prove you're better FOR THE YEAR--just for that game.2. The
conference championship game is just one more chance to get key players injured,
which can affect the outcome of the future bowl game.So, why WOULD
the Big 12 want to expand to 12 just for that game? Doesn't make any sense.Personally, I like it when one team stands above the others in its
conference and gets the better bowl game.Thus, I really like BYU's
independence, because that puts them in the driver's seat without worrying about
a conference championship game getting in the way.Remember, years
ago BYU lost out on a BCS bowl when Oklahoma upset their conference leader.
@AZJazzFan:The ONLY way BYU goes back to the MWC is if they come
begging and make several concessions for broadcast rights, and there is
subsequent political pressure on BYU from LDS Church headquarters to go in and
support a likewise invitation to Utah State.
@Moderate:BYU brings to the table MUCH MORE than TCU, SMU, Houston,
Memphis or some of the other silly propositions (Boise State, San Diego State,
UNLC) you often hear about.More than likely the Baylor AD is playing
coy since there is tremendous political pressure in Texas to add Houston,
something Commissioner Dan Beebe and the Big-12 president DO NOT WANT to do.
Baylor has actually been one of the biggest proponents of adding BYU to the
Big-12 in the past.Btw Sirius Satellite Radio just sent out an email
adding BYU Radio to their lineup.
I predict this conference affiliation will not last long, even perhaps as
little as 2 years. BYU is just passing through. BYU would jump at an
invitation to the Big 12 but that may take some time. I would not be
surprised the MWC may come back inviting the cougs for all sports sans football.
@SLC BYU Fan "If you're attempting to portray BYU as a revenue
gamble".I'm not trying to portray BYU as anything. I was just
curious what you thought BYU would bring to the Big 12 table. Your answer
" the Salt Lake television market" is fine, but I don't think the Big
12 wants it.Last week, an article on the Big 12 "a year
later" reports that all members are very happy. The Baylor athletic
director said expansion is not even on the radar. "It's a non-issue".
I was very impressed with the WCC's commissioner when I heard him speak last
Summer. I am happy to be part of that Conference. I, honestly, don't care if
anyone not affiliated with my school likes the move or not. I think it's a good
move. I think Independence is a good move. You can agree with me or
not -- I don't care either way.
Comments that BYU levereged way down completely ignore the realities of how the
WCC and MWC stacked up in other sports. In Basketball, it could be argued that
below Ganzaga and St. Mary's you had a lot of B-Leagers, but in fact most of
those teams have had pretty rich basketball traditions. A league that sees
basketball as it's primary focus is a lot better than some of you might think.
The real butter hits the bread in other sports. The WCC is equal to or superior
to the WAC and MWC in almost all other minor sports like vollyball, tennis,
baseball, softball and golf. You might think basketball is a step backwards but
at least BYU will no longer be embarrassed by New Mexico which will subsequently
lose early in the tournament. Ganzaga is better than any MWC program and has
been for 10 years. St. Mary's is as good as BYU, UNLV, SDSU or New Mexico. I
believe with BYU IN THE LEAGUE other programs will step up a bit as well. San
Francisco, Santa Clara and pepperdine have good basketball traditions and I
think they improve now.
Just that list of who's who from basketball would make one heck of an all-time
all star team. I have been advocating BYU had more in common with the WCC
schools than the WAC and MWC schools for years. I think this is the beginning
of a great long relationship that will benefit BYU and also benefit each of
those other wonderful institutions a lot. Great move!
BYU could be attractive to Big12, but Texas would seem to be the hinge on that
one. Either Texas would want BYU around so they can emulate BYUtv or not want
them around because of BYUtv. BYU is in a very enviable position right now,
shared broadcast rights with ESPN and their own network. 140+ live sporting
events or rebroadcasts on BYUtv this sports' season alone, 60M+ homes have
access to BYUtv, what school in their right minds wouldn't want that? It's why
Texas is trying to build their own network right now. The great thing about
BYUtv is that it's not there just to make money, it's there to increase
exposure. Once Texas' network is going it'll just become a part of the rest of
the top-tier sports options on cable/satellite systems. Any Big12 invite will
be heavily scrutinized by BYU and its Board.I agree with earlier
comments about undergrad qualifications. Both BYU and the U have bettered their
standings, but way back in 1991, my frosh year at BYU, BYU's average ACT score
was 7 points higher than the U. Both have bettered since then but BYU maintains
extremely high standards for enrollment.Go Cougs
1. As a BYU fan, I admit the WCC is not want we wanted.2. Kuddos to
the U for their acceptance to the Paac 12.3. Independence in
football will work much better than our affiliation with the WCC.4.
Any notion that the U has a better athletic department makes me laugh (MWC
championshipsover the last 10 years: BYU 142, Utah 41)5. BYU sells
more 10 X tickets around the country than Utah.6. Aside from
Football and Gymnastics, Utah is going to be totally embarrassed in the Pac 12.
Count on it!
Further FYI is that in 1944 Utah actually lost to Kentucky in the NIT which made
it even possible for them to play in the NCAA at all.... Now, prove me wrong! :)
Fact is that in 1984 BYU won a championship based on going 13-0. They didn't
have to lose in order for the NCAA title to be placed on their shoulders.
Where and what time is the big party for BYU joining the ever so powerful WCC
Just an FYI trolls the Utah basketball championship is the equivalent of winning
the NIT title. Back in the black and white days that Utah had their
'championship' the NIT was where it was at and that is not where they played. Do
a little research to see if Utah's 1940's championship is as big as BYU's 1984.
Then, go ahead and troll away.
JustGordon, I am glad utah has some history in Basketball because right now that
is all they have, history. The utah basketball team is in shambles right now
and may take several years to get it back to any respectable level. It is funny
hearing Utah fans bash BYU for talking about 1984 Football when history is all
utah really has in Basketball in the Present!!!
Mediocrity is when you never make it into the NCAA tourney. I remember an Ainge
led team played Ralph Sampson's Virginia in an Elite 8 game. BYU lost. They
still show highlights of the last second drive by Ainge to beat Notre Dame in
the Sweet Sixteen. We are still looking forward to making a Final Four. Cougars
don't always get the highest ranked players but they get the most out of them.
@Dutchman:The expulsion from the AAU makes Nebraska now looks like
the adored stepchild in the Big-Ten at best. I highly doubt theyll ever get
back in since at least one Big-Ten president reportedly was amongst the 44 votes
tallied to boot them. Utah could get in there one day, but there will more than
likely be further purging.@Moderate:The Pac-12 taking
Utah was a much more significant revenue gamble if youre attempting to portray
BYU as a revenue gamble for the Big-12. Texas has much more to gain in revenue
with BYU being in the Big-12, than Stanford and California do with Utah in their
league. Salt Lake City is one of the largest emerging media markets in the U.S.
and all the data on broadcast listener and viewership as well as attendance
point to BYU being the dominant team in this media market. Which is one reason
why I see it coming along with the fact that the Big-12 needs BYU if they want
Pac-12 level $$$.
"They couldn't have dreamed a school like BYU would be available to add to
the conference."Most rational people outside of u of u
territory appreciate quality institutions like BYU.JustGordon:
"Mediocrity and obscurity is what I see the Y and the WCC sharing."
I know it's hard to see outside of the utah box you live in.
@Veracity...When you have never made it to an Elite 8, a Final Four, the
National Championship game nor been an NCAA men's basketball champion, when you
are 14-29 in NCAA play, a .264 win percentage, when you are not in a major
conference, play in gyms that are smaller than many high school gyms...when you
have no BCS appearances ever in the 21st century and now no BCS conference
affiliation and think that 1984 matters...that is THE definition of
mediocrity.@ Veracity...When you have two BCS appearances and two
BCS wins in the 21st century, are the original BCS buster and now a member of
the conference of Champions...the PAC 12, when you are picked to be the favorite
in the PAC12 Southern Division in your inaugural season, when you have more
NCAA basketball appearances (27) than your little brother has wins, four Final
Four Appearances, a National Championship in Men's D1 Basketball and a .538 win
percentage (twice little brother's)...only those who choose to ignore the truth
would argue as you.
As a Laker fan, Andrew Bynum never went to college. Is he a student there?
@SLC BYU FAN. Expand on "Big 12 needs BYU" I don't see it.CCG. The BCS doesn't require a CCG. It was an additional revenue generator,
which they don't need anymore. The Texas AD never liked that game. They want
to earn their BCS berth by winning in the regular season. They don't want their
BCS slot taken by a mid-tier team that gets in by upset in the CCG (Kansas State
for example).Revenue. They certainly wouldn't expand and dilute
revenue. If you make the arguement that BYU could bring their share of revenue
plus more... why would BYU do that? Stay independent and keep the money.Tradition. BYU will pitch "we won a NC in 1984". Since 1984,
7 Big 12 teams have won a NC. A big 12 team played in 7 of the 13 BCS NC games.
They're doing fine on tradition.To get in, you have to convince
Texas, assuring them that you won't dilute their revenue and you won't compete
for their BCS berth. Taking that means taking Texas' money. Also, BYU would
have to be successful the next few years. If that happens, BYU fans would say
I really don't understand the comments from some people that the move to the WCC
will be a major downgrade in competition from the MWC. In mens basketball the
bottom of the WCC may be worse than the bottom of the MWC, but the top of the
conference is very good and the bottom team last year (San Diego) does compete
well and even beat Utah (that's not really saying much, I know). As far as the
other sports, the only real drop off that I see would be cross country, as New
Mexico and AFA (men) had really improved their performance over the past few
years. Of all sports Cross Country and and track are the sports for which
conference affiliation is the most meaningless. These teams train and prepare
for nationals and it doesn't matter if they are part of a conference or not.
Gonzaga has a much better women's basketball program than anything in the MWC,
and women's soccer is much stronger in the WCC than in the MWC. Baseball will
no longer be in the same league as TCU, which has an excellent program, but they
were leaving anyway and the WCC is much deeper.
SLC BYU Fan,That is very interesting that Nebraska got bumped by
AAU. Every member of the BIG 10 conference is a member of AAU and I would think
that played a role in Nebraska's entrance in the BIG 10 conference. I wonder if
Nebraska is undertaking some kind of appeal process to get AAU affiliation
reestablished or it they will work to get back in from scratch?
Did Holmoe just say that "BYU and the WCC are a good fit"?Seriously, does he think we are that stupid?
@Justintime Y:Youre very correct in your acceptation that BYU will
be in a more stable and enviable position over the long term by accepting a
Big-12 invitation when it comes. Boise State took the MWC offer knowing that if
Utah, BYU and TCU bailed that Fresno State and Nevada (the best of the WAC),
that the MWC would be the more stable alignment. The entire reason for Craig
Thompson calling Utah State first was a blackmail ploy at BYU for which they
called his bluff on and left anyway. In the end this will work out better for
BYU since I think staying in the MWC would require a 2 year notice and more
substantial reparation for departure. Nebraskas move to the Big-Ten more than
anything messed up BYU merely replacing Colorado in the Big-12 line-up.The Big-12 has first tier rights expiring in 2016 and they will need BYU
before then. I think Tom Holmoe would have firmed up more 2013 opponents by now
if he didnt think or had solid knowledge that the Big-12 might invite them to
play for that year.
Going Independent 1.3 is the best thing for BYU...Being a new member
of the WCC is the best thing for BYU...Having all your bases covered
is the best thing for BYU...As long as you keep winning. (Tom
Loyola Marymount/Bynum???They claim Andrew Bynum as a famous alum?!?
Maybe he has taken some college courses there but he went straight from high
school to the League. Bit of a reach from LMU.
@Dutchman:Oklahoma and Texas might have their wishes now to try the
league for a season or two without a CCG, but many of the Big-12-2 sportswriters
feel that will only last 1-2 seasons. There has even been some talk of taking
BYU on as a standalone 11th school much the way the Big-Ten dealt with Penn
State for 18 years.As for Utah joining the AAU, this is an
organization that is actually talking about contraction more than anything.
They expelled Nebraska last April, which has a few other schools looking over
their shoulders. But Utah does meet the AAU criteria better than Nebraska
having an on-campus medical school which generates massive levels of NIH and NSF
grant funding. The fact that Utah has over 70 Ph.D programs is what makes it
AAU viable. The caliber of the undergraduate student body at BYU is something
however that many of the AAU schools envy and their presidents all wonder why
BYU has only 25 Ph.D level programs (including LawJ.D. & Ed.D) programs?
The latter more than anything is the official reason the Pac-12 would not
consider taking BYU.
I hope BYU stays in the WCC. They seem like a friendlier bunch of schools and a
better fit than being in a conference with a bunch of secular schools who have a
problem with BYU because they are religious and... BYU. I just wish there were
some way to get Notre Dame into the mix.
Currently, ESPN projects 3 WCC teams to make next year's NCAA tournament -
Gonzaga, BYU, and St. Mary's. And that's not all: Both San Francisco and Santa
Clara have very good basketball teams that can challenge the top three. It's not
just DeepBlue that's taking about the WCC being a three-bid league, Mesoute,
many of the Sportswriters at ESPN and Sports Illustrated have been saying the
The WCC has already been a two-bid league with both Gonzaga and St Marys both
making it in the NCAA tournament. The league has mostly been a one-bid
conference but it has had 2 bids in the past. With the addition of BYU it is
likely that the league would be a two-bid league most years with the possibility
of three bids in a good year.
The more I have analyzed this move of BYU non football sports to the WCC the
more I like it and I believe it will work out very well for BYU and the WCC. It
may be that BYU decides that they like football independence and the WCC for the
other sports and just stays that way for a long time. I don't see the Big 12-2
conference changing much any time soon or until Bob Stoops (Oklahoma) or Mack
Brown (Texas) leave their posts because both are on record as disliking and not
favoring a conference championship game which is really the only reason to have
12 teams in a conference. Things appear to be working out well for BYU in
either regard.Red Headed Stranger,You are a bit behind
the times in regard to incoming freshman at the U. The U has started to
significantly beef up its entrance standards and according to reports is making
moves to gain admittance to the prestigious group of AAU universities. Arizona
got there six years after joining the PAC 10 and Utah is on a similar track.
Given the circumstances BYU acted in their best interests as did everyone else.
USU, et al don't need BYU to look after them.
@ DeepBlue:Really? A two or three bud league? 2 perhaps in some years.
Uteology"BYU left USU at the alter. The classy thing woiuld
have been to back USU by staying in the WAC. After all is that why USU turned
down the MWC offer."Classy selective use of facts.BYU's agreement to join the WAC in all sports except for football was
contingent upon ALL existing WAC teams, except Boise State and Louisiana Tech,
remaining in the WAC for at least 5 years. As soon as Nevada and Fresno State
reneged on the agreement, there was no agreement.If you agree to buy
a car from your buddy and when you return to pick it up you find two wheels
missing and your buddy tells you he has no plans to replace them, are you still
going to do the "classy thing" and buy the car?
For Football independence made the most sense and seems to be headed in a great
direction to start. Playing Gonzaga and St Marys in basketball will be good
competition. I think the WCC will be a two or three big conference with these
three teams. I still hope that BYU will get an opportunity to be in a BCS
conference and preferably the big 12 in the not too distant future. I think the
Football team will do well with independence in both the short a long term but I
think all other sports in the long term will need a BCS conference affiliation
for continued growth. Don't mind independence and the WCC for now but this fan
would prefer a big 12 invite for long-term stability of all BYU sports.
"Mediocrity"? Hardly.From an academics perspective, the
WCC is a step up from the MWC. Looking at the ACT and SAT test scores from the
"old" WCC and comparing them to the University of Utah, the WCC comes
out on top. For example, according to the College board website, the middle
25%-75% of BYU kids score in the 84 to 96 percentile. The U? 55 to 88. Yikes.
Meaning? The higher end kids at the U score about the same as the lower end
kids at the Y.The WCC kids scores are closer to the Y,Pepperdine 80-96Loyola 80-94USD 80-94Gonzaga 80-94Santa Clara 84-96The WCC admits high quality freshman and rewards
them with a high quality undergrad education. Not mediocrity.PAC
10.1.1? I guess the Stanfords and Berkleys get balanced out by WAZZU, OSU and
UU. Just sayin', no offense. By the way, wasn't the U having
trouble verifying if its incoming Freshman had actually finished high school?
Lest we forget the purpose of college is well, education.
JustGordon,Mediocrity and obscurity is what I see the Y and the WCC
sharing. I am sure you miss spoke, mediocrity and obscurity is what
everyone sees with Utah in the PAC 10.2.I know this is what you ment
This was the best choice given the options. It is short term anyways as in the
next 10 years there will be another re-alignment and hopefully a real
championship series for football. In the meantime, I like the schools and
religious affiliations AND the chance to build some bridges with these churches.
Everything has a good reason in the end.As for USU - why doesn't
their fellow state school Utah look out for its little brother?? USU wouldn't
exist if it weren't for the revenues from BYU games.
JustGordon | 4:45 a.m. June 30, 2011Wishing doesn't make it so.BYU will never be mediocre or obscure no matter where they play.Uteology | 5:04 a.m. June 30, 2011 Classy? O.K why didn't
utes have class and reject the pac10.2 invite to put pressure on the BCS? Because every school is going to do what's in their own best interest.
BYU, UTAH, everyone.
BYU sought to leverage its assets in football, and we will see if that happened.
In the other sports, they leveraged way down.
@TJBYU left USU at the alter. The classy thing woiuld have been to back
USU by staying in the WAC. After all is that why USU turned down the MWC offer.
Mediocrity and obscurity is what I see the Y and the WCC sharing.
Gonzaga and Saint Mary's will be BYU main competition in the WCC, but there are
some other decent programs in the WCC as well. With BYU, the top of the WCC
could be every bit as good as, if not better than, the top of the MWC, and the
WCC will be a two- or three-bid league.
Boy I don't see any reason why BYU doesn't steamroll every team in this league
in Basketball except for Gonzaga. Gonzaga is the only competition.
That is great that the WCC was able to complete the deal with BYU within 2 weeks
even though they had decided not to expand. I had thought that BYU initiated the
contact after the WAC deal fell apart. It should also be mentioned that
USU was the first school the MWC contacted but they turned it down. Classy, but
it diddn't work out too well for them.Now the trolling about high
school gyms and 10PM tip-offs etc.