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Migrant targets — Notorious 'notarios': scammers claim they can help illegals

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  • Gregg Weber SEATTLE, WA
    July 1, 2011 10:29 p.m.

    Make the procedure for getting and keeping in simple enough that anyone can do without a lawyer. Laws must be readable and understandable by the common man to be fair.
    Those legally here can stay here. To be fair to those already here, others must get back into the pipeline even if that starts in their own country.
    Secure the border.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    June 30, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    DougB
    Our recent regulations allow over a million people in each year on just green cards. That does not include visas. More than any other Industrialized country in the world.

    You don't flood an economy with cheap labor, it will destroy the middle class. To many jobs, you see wages go up, to few jobs, you see wages go down. You artificially inflate the labor/wage cycle, you drive down wages for everyone, and end up with 9-10% unemployment. A mature countries growth must be fixed and steady. Other countries do it, we have a right to also.

    Americans should be setting our immigration quotas, not foreign citizens, countries, or dishonest businessmen looking for welfare.

    Wait your turn like the rest of the world. It's a matter of honesty, and respecting a country enough that you follow it's laws.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    June 28, 2011 10:21 p.m.

    to Peter Coyotl

    I know exactly what you mean. The real standard is do you believe in open borders and amnesty? If you don't your comments are "offensive" or some other arbitrary thing.The DN is a media with an agenda and is more censored than publications in countries without freedom of the press. Tow the line or don't waste your time.

  • Noah So Ogden, Ut
    June 28, 2011 5:47 p.m.

    RE:Walt Nicholes I repeatedly hear people complaining about the "vote" of the illegals, as in "They just can't do without the vote of the illegals." FInd me one real and documented example. Find me a single poll worker who can prove that an illegal voted, or a single illegal who will attest that they did actually get on the voter registration rolls and cast a ballot. What hooey!

    I just had to comment on your above paragraph....Didn't you read the article in the DN "Vargas admitted to breaking numerous laws to conceal his citizenship status... in the original New York Times Magazine article, Vargas admitted to breaking numerous laws to conceal his citizenship status. The memo also directs ICE officials to avoid prosecuting a wide array of individuals, including those who grew up in the U.S. and attended college both of which Vargas did." Apparently he came as a teen, got a Drivers license, etc....

    My employment consisted of working stolen identity cases for the IRS...so I know not only do they file fraudulent IRS returns, but vote as well... please reconsider your position.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    June 28, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    @billysworkshop.

    Then YOU pay for all their health care, food, housing, education, etc, etc, etc.

    I am tired of seeing our bridges broken, roads with way too many pot holes and seeing our national debt out of control.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    June 28, 2011 2:50 p.m.

    Those who have illegally entered or overstayed their visa's are breaking our laws and need to be deported. The recent world cup soccor game at the Rose Bowl in LA demonstrates clearly where their loyalties lie. The crowd cheered for Mexico and boo'd against the USA. Utah seems to be following the same course as California and the law of the harvest will be the same, bankruptcy,and extremely business unfriendly enviroment and crime and corruption. Yes these people are poor and desparate but by leaving their country which they should be helping they are increasing our problems.I am completely fine with legal immigration,it is great to serve those who are being persecuted in Africa or Albania but obey the law and do things legally.It is too bad that crooks prey on this group.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    June 27, 2011 11:44 p.m.

    The laws are not broken, the system does not need to be fixed. We just need to force people to be honest. That's the problem, we have a lack of honesty driven by greed. And it not only hurts Americans, it hurts those waiting in other countries when we let people crowd in line.

    Walt Nicholes,
    2005, U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. You can find the link to their site with a search engine.

  • DougB Spanish Fork, UT
    June 27, 2011 7:04 p.m.

    tenx,

    if 3.5 billion people came here tomorrow then America still wouldn't even come close to the population density of my ancestors' country of origin: England. America has room enough and to spare. We have a lion's share of natural resources as well. Arable land to farm, oil, minerals, etc. 3.5 billion people are not going to come. But if they did, we could handle it. We'd have to kick-start American ingenuity and innovation again and get off our butts a little. But we could do it.

    Built2Last,

    Do you find it a good thing that our recent "immigration regulations" are designed to keep people out? If so, why? What makes these new immigrant of so much less worth than your ancestors who most likely didn't face centralized planning restricted liberty and quotas by a government that believes it knows best about everything and takes increasing amounts of your taxes to preserve that illusion?

    When my ancestors came they didn't take people's jobs or scarce resources. They innovated, irrigated, built industries and businesses and communities.

    Where on earth people are getting these entitlement notions and trust in secular governments, I don't know, but it's un-American.

  • Neanderthal SLC, Utah
    June 27, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    @billysworkshop: "I only wish all of you were placed in the same exact circumstances as these people."

    There are 3 billion (with a "B") people in this world who are in much the same situation. We can't take them all so, to be fair, we shouldn't be taking any. They have to make it where they live. (Watch Immigration Gumballs on YouTube for an eyeopener)

    "They are not leaving tropical paradise, they are leaving some of the worse places on earth and doing it for a love of their friends and family."

    So? They need to stay home, work their buttocks off, and help lift their native countries by the bootstraps. That's what immigrants (legal) did to this country.

    ----------------------

    @Lyle: "Well, that's the problem being described here. The victims of the notarios think they 'are' following the legal system."

    Isn't it ironic that law breakers are being scammed by other law breakers?

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    June 27, 2011 2:31 p.m.

    billyworkshop 12:45. You need to get out and about a bit. There are a few billion people on this earth worse off than the ones you describe on the streets of Mexico City. And how many "huddled masses" do you want? 3 billion, 4 billion? The USA presently takes in more immigrants than any other country on earth! If you want to help those who can't come you might donate to some relief agencies. Viva LEGAL immigration.

  • Miss Piggie SLC, Utah
    June 27, 2011 2:31 p.m.

    @Peter Coyotl: "I would comment on this story but the control freak moderators who do not agree with what I say, despite not violating any polices of the DN, will reject my comment."

    Get in touch with Deseret News' Greg Kratz by phone or email. He's very understanding. He will take your complaint and is very fair about it.

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    June 27, 2011 2:05 p.m.

    Lyle
    If the illegals were following the system of immigration which presently is the "law of the land" and were in this country legally they would not need the services of the notarios or any immigration lawyer.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 27, 2011 1:55 p.m.

    HB116 essentially would do the same thing (beginning in 2013), inasmuch as it would -- even without a federal waiver, as set forth in the bill -- charge illegal aliens a $2500 (or $1500) "fine" and then issue a "Utah guest worker permit" that would still leave a permit-holder vulnerable to Federal prosecution and deportation. Thus HB116, too, essentially is a "fake work permit" scam.

  • Lyle Springville, UT
    June 27, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    dlw7 wrote: "It is OK to circumvent that process and do whatever it takes to "get theirs" without following the legal system."

    Well, that's the problem being described here. The victims of the notarios think they *are* following the legal system.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    June 27, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    This article would like us to believe that it would be better for the illegal aliens to go to a lawyer rather than a notary. Immigration lawyers may not be much better. Back in 2009 for example 7 members of the Alcala Law Firm were indicted on visa fraud, working a scheme with Mexican partners. It was estimated that they helped provide nearly 5000 fraudulent visas.

    In my opinion it would be better for illegal aliens to return to their country of origin and save their money rather than trusting even immigration lawyers.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 27, 2011 1:21 p.m.

    @Walt Nicholes

    "I repeatedly hear people complaining about the "vote" of the illegals...Find me one real and documented example. Find me a single poll worker who can prove that an illegal voted..."

    Actually this is a known problem in Arizona, and one of the ways they're able to prove it is that an illegal will get a jury summons but will swear under oath that they are not citizens and therefore do not qualify for jury duty -- but will already be registered to vote. In one year alone hundreds of cases of non-citizen voter registrations were reported. Some of these were prosecuted. Undoubtedly this is happening in Utah too. Ever heard of fake ID's?

    The problem is glaring enough that Arizona enacted voter-ID laws requiring proof of citizenship in to register to vote. And sure enough, the Obama administration is at it again, fighting Arizona in court over this as it already is over its other immigration enforcement laws. Earlier this month Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne openly accused the Obama administration of doing this in an effort to garner illegal-aliens' votes.

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    June 27, 2011 1:05 p.m.

    Illegal scammers taking advantage of illegal immigrant! Somehow that seems Poetic Justice. There is a system for immigration to this country. For alot of year, it worked. Immigrants came to this country, learned English, found work, contributed to the community around them and became legal citizens of the United States of America.
    Now, it that seems passe. It is OK to circumvent that process and do whatever it takes to "get theirs" without following the legal system. Schools, welfare systems, etc become overloaded with these people and who pays for them? You, Me, Us!! No matter what a Church, Hispanic Leaders,and Politicians say---this is wrong morally and is wrong legally.

  • billysworkshop PROVO, UT
    June 27, 2011 12:45 p.m.

    I only wish all of you were placed in the same exact circumstances as these people. They are not leaving tropical paradise, they are leaving some of the worse places on earth and doing it for a love of their friends and family. 90% of the Hispanics here are extremely peaceful, loving, friendly, and are only here because there was not other alternative. I guarantee if your family was starving, living in the streets of Mexico City you would have done the exact same thing...I know I would..... Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    June 27, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    DougB 9:50. After 32 years of working in foreign countries I have seen my share of immigration problems. Been there and done that. My wife is a immigrant and her father also. Our system works. If you can pass the background and health tests then you must have patience, currently 12 years worth. We have a quota system which many say is the "broken part" of our immigration laws. I think those quotas are necessary otherwise you would have 3 billion plus coming here. The illegals wake up one day and want to come here the next day. Rather than wait 12 years they just jump the line and sneak in. Increase the quotas if you want, but we must stop those that want to jump to the front of the line. That's not having respect for the laws of our country.

  • M.Sanchez Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 27, 2011 12:39 p.m.

    Proyecto Latino de Utah and Utah immigration lawyers, stated this would happen. It is a part of why they are against HB 116. These groups along with diametrically opposed groups like the Utah Minuteman Project spoke at legislative committee meetings about the problems HB 116 (SB 60, SB 288) would bring about. No one listened. Within days of the Governor signing the bill, these scams began, world wide. The sponsors and the people who wrote this bill should be held accountable for the countless victims this bill has caused and will be causing.

  • Peter Coyotl West Jordan, UT
    June 27, 2011 12:28 p.m.

    I would comment on this story but the control freak moderators who do not agree with what I say, despite not violating any polices of the DN, will reject my comment.

  • danaslc1 WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 27, 2011 12:12 p.m.

    Enforcing the law would be the right thing to do. Shut down these predators. These people should go to jail. America has become a wicked place.

  • Built2Last Provo, UT
    June 27, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    DougB,

    Can you quote any statistic that shows "A majority of the 'undocumented' tried the legal paths and failed because of our broken immigration system"? Just because you want to believe it doesn't make it so.

    Being one who emigrated to the U.S. legally, I am very doubtful that most who are here illegally applied at a consolate for a visa or a green card. Too expensive and it is well known that unless they have a legitimate reason to be in the U.S., the INS will deny your application. Their job is to keep people out of the country; not help people come into the country.

  • Mr. Bean SLC, Utah
    June 27, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    These poor hapless Notario Publicos, et.al., are ill-informed. When they sit down with an illegal immigrant client and they don't immediately turn them over to the federal ICE agency, they are in violation of the Federal Aiding, Abetting, and Harboring of Illegal Aliens law (8 USC 1324).

  • wrz SLC, Utah
    June 27, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    @Walt Nicholes

    Walt, I think you're a bit confused if you think politicians are going after the "illegal vote." Illegals can't vote. And won't try, for fear of being exposed and deported.

    The votes politicians are going for are friends and relatives of illegals. In other words, they want the vote of American citizen Hispanics... of which there are about 343,000 (12%) in Utah and 48,400,000 (14%) in the US. And by 2050 the Hispanic population in the US will be an estimated 132.8 million... probably enough to take over and run the country.

  • Ace Farmington, UT
    June 27, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    CJ and others: The "Law" you want to follow allows an immigrant to seek a change to permanent status after they come here. These people are doing nothing wrong by seeking the services of an immigration attorney to help with the confusing (and in English) paperwork associated with changing immigration status. In fact, our laws make it practically necessary to hire an attorney as one mistake in the paperwork will render the entire application void.

  • Jazz Cop San Francisco, CA
    June 27, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    If S.American countries could possibly afford to make their immigrants legal, before they flee to the us for better lives, they would probably use the money to support cultural wars in the usa, since the majority of s.american governments were put in place by terrorist orginizations embedded in american govt., this is whatthe fuss about Reagan selling weapons to contras.
    this is one of the problems with immigrant workers the usa now faces, but who knows what the truth really is, the lesson is if you take the media message as gospel ur a bigger jerk than any bigot from utah.

  • mecr Bountiful, UT
    June 27, 2011 10:11 a.m.

    DougB,

    Finally, a voice of reason! What people don't see is immigrants trying to fix their status and being scammed. How many times we have read of people who came here under amnesty and then a so called lawyer rip them off?

    The system needs to be fixed
    The borders need to be secured
    Immigration system didn't exist until mid 20th Century. Before that was getting into a ship, arriving to Ellis Island, inspected to check you have no lice and writing your name on a passenger list. But if you came thru Canada, you just needed to find your way thru the border.

  • DougB Spanish Fork, UT
    June 27, 2011 9:50 a.m.

    tenx,

    It is not at all true that potential immigrants who go through the "legal process" encounter "no problems". A majority of the "undocumented" tried the legal paths and failed because of our broken immigration system. Be grateful that your ancestors got in before "Big Brother" went and broke the front door.

    I have great empathy for the undocumented in our country. I completely fail to see how they are so much more evil than my British ancestors who came here before our contradictory, complicated, unevenly enforced, and problematic system of "immigration regulations". I do, however, feel quite strongly that those who view our recent immigrants as sub-human and then lie to, cheat, and steal from them are doing something quite immoral and contemptible.

    We need to streamline and overhaul the overgrown and inept system at our border that tries to do the things that destroyed our communist rivals -- it attempts to dictate who can do what and live where and why. Despite the large quote on the Statue of Liberty welcoming the poor and outcast, the Feds now accept only those with lots of money and power as "legal" immigrants. It's un-American and needs reform.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 27, 2011 9:40 a.m.

    Re: one day... | 5:33 a.m. June 27, 2011
    "You will find better solutions than yours, sorry!...next!"

    There is a better solution than enforcing the law? People entering our country are expected to be invited in through the front door ... not through an unlocked back window.

  • Walt Nicholes Orem, UT
    June 27, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    I repeatedly hear people complaining about the "vote" of the illegals, as in "They just can't do without the vote of the illegals."

    FInd me one real and documented example. Find me a single poll worker who can prove that an illegal voted, or a single illegal who will attest that they did actually get on the voter registration rolls and cast a ballot. What hooey!

    The illegals may make a huge difference in the statistical polls and surveys that support this or that, but I'm betting than more dead people voted than illegals.

  • carman Alpine, UT
    June 27, 2011 9:06 a.m.

    Sadly, there are many locally who would scam their neighbor, an illegal, an immigrant, or even their own mother - all in the name of making ends meet for their family. The scams come in the form of "Notarios", some potion that is supposed to cure this or that (unproven by hard science, no doubt - or at least grossly exagerated), or are built on multi-level organizations where company leadership knows its "salesforce" is making obsurd claims to sell overpriced product.

    Well folks, buyer beware. The snake-oil salespeople are everywhere, and they want your hard-earned dollars. Don't think because you are in Utah, or because the salesperson goes to church, that they aren't willing to take your money and give little-to-nothing of value in return.

    It's time we demand a higher standard for making a living. Let's start with delivering real value as opposed to wheeling and dealing, scamming and taking advantage of others.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 27, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    In a fair world, most of the clients discussed in this story would be turned over to immigration autorities for deportation, not assisted in continued illegal presence.

    I must have missed the story praising the hard working men and women prtoecting the interests of all citizens and legal residents by enforcing our laws and securing the border.

    Oh, wait, those people are despised by the politically correct crowd and will be undercut and underfunded by pandering politicians, and never receive a word of praise by the liberal media.

    Too bad we have our priorities reversed.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    June 27, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    One day..
    "better solutions"??? I suppose that means amnesty and allowing those who are here stealing jobs, healthcare, education, and anything else they can to cut themselves some kind of deal instead of obeying the law. Do you really think that the millions of jobs that illegals are stealing with the money going straight to Mexico isn't devastating the economy? Can't wait to hear some of your "better solutions". I suppose you think HB116 is one of them. Rewarding lawlessness is never a solution to anything. Why don't you tell us all some of your great solutions?

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    June 27, 2011 7:53 a.m.

    It's hard to cheat an honest man.
    C'mon, people. Those scammers are just trying to make a living and take care of their families. That's a noble cause. We ought to just leave them alone and let them break the law.

  • E. Matscheko St. George, UT
    June 27, 2011 7:26 a.m.

    The worst about illegal immigration, are those who take advantage of it; the coyotes, "notarios", employers, civil rights activists, politicians...

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    June 27, 2011 6:37 a.m.

    CJ 11:27. I agree completely with your comments. Scammers include the politically correct crowd who are encouraging illegals to come here. They are part of the problem. Immigrants who go through the legal process have no problems. Viva LEGAL immigration.

  • whistle219 princeton, IN
    June 27, 2011 6:04 a.m.

    CJ , I agree with you in part but, in other countries they do not have a good documentation practices which makes it harder for someone to navigate our system. I understand that this is no excuse or reason to justify break the law, but we do need to fix this so people can come here legally and protect our system of emigration

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    June 27, 2011 5:46 a.m.

    Why don't we do everyone a favor by enforcing the law and sending everyone accused of any crime straight to prison? No arraignment, no preliminary hearing, no plea bargain, no presumption of innocence, no trial, no attorney, no appeal. Who cares about civil rights or the Constitution? They just get in the way of law enforcement. What we really need is a police state. Think of the money it would save. Now there's a way to cut spending!

  • one day... South Jordan, UT
    June 27, 2011 5:33 a.m.

    to CJ
    You will find better solutions than yours, sorry!...next!

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    June 27, 2011 5:14 a.m.

    CJ you are right but you know the politcians aren't going to enforce the laws already on the books. They'll just write some new farce of a law that will do nothing and then say we don't have the money to enforce it. They just can't do without the vote of illegals. This problem has to start at the borders,get our troops home from overseas and put them on the border with Mexico and Canada and do their training there. But then again that would be to simple for them to think about.

  • My2Cents Kearns, UT
    June 27, 2011 3:54 a.m.

    So how does it feel? Scamming the scammer, I love it, there is some justice left.

    Now they know how americans feel when Hispanics are favored by prejudice and discrimination by cities, states, federal government and law enforcement.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 27, 2011 1:59 a.m.

    "Some enterprising notarios have begun selling fake "Utah Work Permits" for as much as $2,500 each."

    Very, very interesting. Sounds uncannily and effectively identical to what Bramble, Lockhart, Mero, and others are doing with their HB116 "Guest worker" program: in the name of a $2500 (or $1500) "fine," and beginning in 2013, they effectively would sell a Utah work permit to illegal aliens EVEN WITHOUT a federal waiver -- which would make these "permits," what?

    Fake Utah work permits!

    Like those discussed in this article, these "guest worker permits" pursuant to HB116 would leave the permit-holder perfectly vulnerable to Federal prosecution and deportation.

    Yes, that's right, illegal alien, these legislators who pretend to be your friends are the most egregious of the "notarios." Their scam is on a massive, state-wide scale. The unscrupulous special interests they work for -- the businesses who want you as disposable servants, for example -- are very much part of the scam.

    Remember, illegal alien: those here in Utah who condone your illegal presence in America are not your friends. The Most Reverend Bishop Wester, to his credit, finally figured this out, which is why he has withdrawn his support of HB116.

  • JBrady Murray, Ut
    June 27, 2011 12:19 a.m.

    If we enforced our laws, this would not be a problem.

    The time to apply for citizenship was before you came, not after being here for years and threatened with deportation.

  • CJ Murray, UT
    June 26, 2011 11:27 p.m.

    Why don't we do everyone a favor by enforcing the law and letting these people go home to their own country and apply from there like everyone else does? Then you don't have to worry about it. "Legal" starts in the right place and that isn't within the borders of the USA. If you want to do it right begin in your own country instead of breaking into ours. Anyone whose first action is to crash the border should never under any circumstances be given American citizenship. You break the law before anything else and you should be sent home without ever being allowed to become a citizen. Can we please start worrying about the problems of American citizens and quit spending our time trying to work out deals with people who have no right to even be here?