BluCoug said, "Maybe the 2008 utes would have a little more respect if
they beat anyone of real significance" Was Alabama not a
significant enough of a win for Utah that year? I believe they were ranked
Number 1 for the majority of the season.
LDS/BYU ConvertLocally BYUtv is available over the 'airwaves' in HD
as well and it's FREE to all.Kind of like 700 AM radio, where you'll
hear the Utes for free but... not see them.
BYUtv is on Direct TV and the DISH but not in HD. The only place you can watch
HD is with Comcsat in Utah and that is a major negative at this point.
@Hedgie... "As in they have a shot at any elite athlete. ByU?
That "nationwide" chest pounding only incorporates zeliot
mormons."... and a 4 star Catholic from California.;>0 "snicker, snicker"
"There are extensive comments on the subject from big east fans on the
reports on those sites."I just want to add that those Big East
sights are where I first heard the rumor from, not from BYU (which is saying
something, especially because I am a student at BYU and I like to know what's
going on). Second, out of the hundreds of comments, here is what I learned:1) Only about 5 or so of the 300+ comments wer negative toward BYU. The
rest showed BYU a lot of respect, and many fans hoped BYU would join the Big
East.2) When the PAC was discussed, it was unanimous among those
that mentioned it that BYU was not invited because of religious reasons (of
course this is common knowledge to everyone except many in the Ute fan
community, who are under the impression that their sports program is superior to
BYU's).3) While many hoped BYU would join, many thought BYU was
smart to reject a football only invite if it were to come.These are
not my words. Also, if this rumor were false, wouldn't the Big East have denied
it? Evidence suggests it is true.
@ Uteanymous | 11:05 p.m. June 28, 2011 Salt Lake City, Utah I
think he was just grazing. Kinda like the Duckhunter.Both are just
trying to fill up the time in a day.
@devlishuteYou are wrong. pretty much all of the media entities you
listed reported and commented on it. As I said the orioginal report did come
from a BYU blog but those outlets picked it up and reported it. There are
extensive comments on the subject from big east fans on the reports on those
sites. It is unfortunatel that you are either incapable of using the google to
find this out or else you are simply clinging to a lie to try to save face but
the fact is you are wrong and those mdeia outlets all re-reported the story.@mildew in fillmoreI am happy with independence. I would not
want BYU to join the big east at all and have my doubts about any other
conference either. I am very happy to see how independence plays out over the
next several years and if it doesn't then it can be revisited.As far
as the comments go, well it is being discussed and there are ute
"fans" making (surprise) false claims about it. I am refuting them.
That has nothing to do with whether or not I like independence. Ute
"fans" like yourself are very predictable.
@Blowhard S"Alas, citing a lot of numbers does not constitute
quantifiable evidence that your assertions are true"And
sticking your head in the sand and closing your eyes so you don't see me does
not constitute quantifiable evidence that I'm invisible either yet you continue
to do it.Look, I understand it's hard for haters like you to accept
Utah's status as a local community college. Instead of letting all the negatives
about Utah's community college status get you down you should focus on the
positives. Its carved out a nice niche for itself along side UVU, SUU, USU, etc
as an easy to get into alternate destination for kids who aren't smart enough to
get into BYU.
"is that Utah was undefeated in both 2004 and 2008"A very
weak and mediocre schedules at that. Especially 2008... the 2 rank teams the
utes beat were from the MWC "a non BCS" conference. Maybe the 2008
utes would have a little more respect if they beat anyone of real significance.
Sorry, Weber State does not count. Great way to pad wins..."a
feat that BYU has only accomplished once in their history and that was a
generation ago."The result: National Champions!Nice
TMung99Was there a point to any of that, or are you just grazing?
Seriously... all you Ute Trolls... you have to win games too otherwise you will
end up like Washington State. Same goes for BYU though to all those fans out
there thinking independence is the best thing since sliced bread, bottom line
you have to win games. All this talk about whose conference is better than our
conference... I am pretty sure Boise State is viewed as a better program than a
mid-level Pac-12 team or even a top ranked Big East team. Each team is viewed by
how they have fared in the winning category... now whether a program will make
it to the National championship is another argument all together but lets not
kid ourselves BYU and Utah have a LONG way to go before that happens. Oh and for
those Utes and Cougs who think its going to happen within the next few years
both of you keep dreaming.
September 17th can't come soon enough!
Re:Duckhunter Your Welcome! Fight on TROJANS!!!
Love the schedule. Only one teach I really wish they would get rid of forever,
Utah State. It is absolutely a waste of a game. It is a meaningless game.
Almost without fail, one of the star players seems to get injured and for what?
Against a team who will never be good enough to match BYU. This is a patsy game
against a patsy team. If BYU wants to be looked upon as a legitimate contender,
then stop scheduling teams like this one.
I would personally like the cougs to get a big12 invite. independence may work
out but, long term, it's risky
@DeviishUte & ALL OTHER Ute fans in denial of BYU ever joining a BCS
league:The administration probably put the kibosh on the Big-East
INQUIRY into the potential interest of BYU in a football only alignment very
quickly and didnt want it out, even though perhaps a few people might have
leaked it to the likes of Brett Richins (DeepShadesofBlue). Such a piece of
information getting into the mainstream media would be very bad for the other
sports at BYU, particularly Dave Rose and the basketball team which felt chucked
under the bus last August. Tom Holmoe was lucky he and President Cecil
Samuelson (A Crimson Club founder btw) were able to convince Rose to stay at BYU
when he had firm offers from both Oklahoma and Utah. As Ive pointed out, the
Big-East has first tier rights coming up for renegotiation, and BYU would have
been an ace in their pocket for such financial positioning. Perhaps more than
anything BYU does have a solid consensus amongst the Big-12 presidents
(something TCU lacks) that when they expand, theyre wanted according to several
media sources in Oklahoma and Texas.
@ Duckhunter | 2:37 p.m. June 28, 2011 Highland, UT I'm
confused again. I thought we were all happy with our Independance league. If
so, why all the talk about meaningless rumors?
Way to cover all the bases BYU fans! Now you are actually slobbering over
rumors of potential conference invites from years past.
Wow, I think we have reached an all time low with these comment boards. I've
never read more outrageous and irrational posts in my life and I've been an avid
comment reader for at least five years. We need to think sometimes before we
post. Most of this stuff is just the same stuff we've heard a million different
times. Why don't we all just wait till after September 17th.
DevilishUte:How dare you denigrate the World Series Champions like
that! You are clever, though. I'm sure you're very good at trying to belittle
any success any other sports team has had, i.e. Giants in 2010, BYU in 1984,
since the two teams in your username have never experienced that same level of
success. Figures. Oh yeah, lest I forget, you're a girl too!! Take
Ducky-I believe the blog and the Daily Universe more than I would
ever believe anything you have to say. By the way, none of the places I
mentioned reported the story. smallfan -Case wide open.
You've failed to mention a reputable source. Why you cannot admit that you
don't have a source is beyond me. You girls crack me up!
DevilishUte,Dick Harmon writes for a legitimate news source. I'm not
sure he ever mentioned the Big East thing or not but the fact that you don't
consider him reputable is evidence of your bias to not accept any positive news
about BYU as legitiamte. Case closed.
Re: DuckhunterEgggggggsactly!! Thank you for putting so succintly
what I could not. And who really cares when who we're arguing with are a couple
of grade school kids and their immature "neener neener neener, we got
invited to a BCS Conference and you didn't!" rant.
giant - "there are mutliple sources"Okay, name
a reputable source. Neither the blog, nor the Daily Universe, nor Dick Harmon
are legitimate sources. Why is it that the blog and the school newspaper are
the only sources to report this? Hmmmmmmmm.....
@devlishuteFunny but it was reported on in virtually every single
one of those media entities you mentioned. LOL!Now the original
source was a BYU blogger and that makes sense. That is exactly the the type of
media that would go looking for that sort of info. Like most stories reported in
the larger media this one was 1st discovered by someone who spends his time
scrutinizing and digging for info on one particular program. So I
suppose technically you are correct, nothing has ever been confirmed on this
story, but anyone that bothers to research it can easily find that almost all of
the national bloggers and online media thought it was very credible, and highly
likely, that there was some contact between the Big east and BYU.If
that isn't enough for you then so be it. The truth is you really don't want
there to be anything to it so until the big east commisioner and the Prophet
personall tell you there was some contact you are going to try to discredit even
the meer thought of it.I wonder why you care though?
"This rumor would not have shown up on a Y-ner site (DeepShadesofBlue) if
there weren't some cradability to it."Ha! This is one of the
funniest lines I've read on these boards in weeks. If only factual information
were published to that blog, there would be sparse content. I'm sure reputable
sources have tried to confirm the report on the blog, but have not been unable
@Blowhard S"In the reality that most people live in $20 million
reflects a greater value than $10 million."Quite the opposite.
Based on the economies of scale in the Pac 10+2, your $20 million isn't worth
nearly as much as BYU's $10-15 million is as an independent. It's kind of like
bragging that your $900,000 500 sq ft condo in San Francisco is better than my
$450,000 3500 sq ft home in Park City because your's cost more.Utah's AD will find that the $20 million gets gobbled up faster than BYU's
$10-$15 million does and because of the economy of the Pac 10+2 the Utes will
have less to show for it than BYU will. All your other sports will suffer.Sorry, that's just the reality of economics.Utah was able to
survive being a smaller budget program in the MWC because the disparity wasn't
that great between the "haves" in the conference like BYU and TCU and
the "have nots" like Utah.All that $20 million does is get
you into the lower-income neighborhood of Washington State, not the high rent
district of USC, U-Dub, Oregon, Stanford, etc.
Re: DevilishUteNo, there are mutliple sources, you just choose not
to accept any of them because it doesn't fit your agenda. If what is rumored is
true, that BYU expressed no interest when the Big East sought them out as a
potential suitor, neither BYU nor the Big East would be calling a press
conference to announce "no interest". So all you're left with are
"rumors". Who cares, though. I wouldn't want BYU in the Big East
anyway because I believe there is more upside in Independence right now. The BE
may not even have a BCS auto-bid in a couple years anyway.
Devilish Ute...I think I read it The Yners school newspaper. So it must be
true. It also said that Jimmer walked on water.
@crowntownOnce again let me congratulate you are your decision to be
a usc "fan". That was a very brave choice on your part considering
usc's limited history of success, small media market and limited fanbase. It
really does take alot of courage to go out on a limb like that and I hope that
you received some sort of well earned reward for taking that risk.Also I really want to thank you for charitably comming around here several
times per day and putting all of us small state, small school rubes in our
place. I know it is a sacrifice of your precious time, afterall choosing to be a
usc "fan" comes with its responsibilities, but you obviously are
extremely generous and simply want to make sure that everyone knows their place.
Afterall choosing to support a school like usc makes you a superior person, who
can argue against jumping on a bandwagon like that? There isn't any risk
involved and it let's you tell yourself how much smarter and better you are than
people who support "smaller" less successful schools.Once
again congratulations on your choice and thank you for your concern for the less
giantfan -You have no source. It's that simple. Otherwise you
would have gladly shared. I would hardly count a blog written by a Yner as a
source. If this really did happen, why isn't it being covered by any reputable
sources? ESPN? CBS Sports? FOX Sports? Rivals? Sports Illustrated? Crickets!
@DevilishUte:From what I've heard BYU administrators will niether
confirm nor deny any contact with the Big-East. In all liklihood the Big-East
having their 1st tier rights coming due in 2013 wanted to gage the interest of
BYU in joining their league in a football only deal. This rumor would not have
shown up on a Y-ner site (DeepShadesofBlue) if there weren't some cradability to
it.The BYU to the Big-12 rumor is one that won't likely die down
since with Utah now in the Pac-12 such a move will likely get approved. That
also could come which is why Holmoe hasn't firmed up more of a 2013 schedule
since it would typically be in the best interests of an FBS independent to do so
at this point. The Big-12 has expiring 1st tier rights in 2016.
DevilishUte,I wouldn't expect you to or any other BYU-hater to
accept a reputable source referring to anything positive about BYU if it hit you
in the face. So I'm certainly not going to waste my time.
giantfan,"it's rumored that the Big East recently approached
BYU about joining for football only but BYU shot it down before it even got to
being any sort of official invite. That too has been reported outside the
"bubble". Not too hard to find either with a little google
help."Please cite a reputable source that has reported on this
(hint: citing a blog run by a Yner does not count as a reputable source).
@Sweatpants & Giantfan:Yes that is a reality (BYU & the
Big-12 formation in 1993), but the concern a few of the LDS Church leaders have
now is "what happens to Utah State?" Part of the reason BYU went
through 2 short tenured Athletic Directors between Glenn Tuckett (retired 1993)
and Tom Holmoe (hired 2005) is the fricition between some of the senior brethren
and these two athletic administrators (Rondo Felberg & Val Hale) was over
conference affiliation and the future league alignment of BYU Athletics. Utah
wasn't even close to what it is now 18 years ago, and things have become much
worse in Logan. If this small minority (as Tom Holmoe acknowleges and refers to
it as) of senior LDS Church leaders had their way, Provo would turn into Rexburg
VERY quickly. There are those church leaders who are quite concerned over a big
church school taking away and diminishing from the mission of a state school
like Utah State.
Sweatypants,It has been quoted and referenced here before. If you're
too lazy to actually look it up then I or any one else can't help you. Hint:
google Rex E. Lee & Big 8 Conference.Also, it's rumored that the
Big East recently approached BYU about joining for football only but BYU shot it
down before it even got to being any sort of official invite. That too has been
reported outside the "bubble". Not too hard to find either with a
little google help.
giantfan, you said:"In fact, it's on record that BYU was in the
mix in the past for a big conference invite but the board of trustees, aka First
Presidency/Quorum of the Twelve of the church, were leary of leaving the U to
fend for itself (1990's). So BYU by it's actions has proven that a BCS
Conference is not the ultimate goal of the athletics department, that a move to
such a conference would have to be in harmony with the mission of the
university."I have heard/read several BYU fans make reference
to a Big 12 invite in the past, but I haven't been able to read it for myself.
Please quote chapter and verse, if you can, where I can see evidence of this
BYU's only chance of long term success is IF they get an invite from the BIG 12.
With TCU gone to another conference now I think that possibility is less likely
now but you never know. The BIG 12 would have to match some other team with BYU
and bring with in to bring them back to 12 teams and a conference championship
game. I really think the Y would be a good fit but I don't see another school
the BIG 12 would be interested in unless it is Notre Dame.
re:CGYou are right about the Y's national fan base and Utah
certainly can't match that. However, when Arizona and Arizona St left the WAC
years ago and joined the PAC 10 it wasn't long before both schools jumped into
the national spot light. The reason for the rise of both schools was simply
recruiting. Utah will see the same rise from year to year with the caliber of
athlete they are going to get. You have to admit the Pac 12 is BIG TIME both
from a TV and revenue standpoint and a name recognition standpoint. Money means
bigger and better facilities as well as being able to pay for better coaches. TV
exposure really sales a recruit when you sit with him in his living room along
with the Rose Bowl and the other HUGE stadiums in the PAC 12. BYU will lose the
best LDS athletes to Utah - no question. If a mission bound lds kid who is
capable of also playing at the next level (Ben Olson) comes around he is always
going to go with the program that can get him the best exposure and that is NOT
BYU. Watch and see.
How Weird all the numbers support BYU.
I'm a realist I know BYU won't have the athletes to compete week in and week out
with the big boys. I know it the College Football nation knows it, BYU fans do
not. You guys have been predicting this for years now, first during those good
years with John Beck and then Max Hall and now all of sudden you you have this
much better more athletic team and your playing top 10 teams and your gonna win?
I will stick with rwality. YOu are you are I have never understand why BYU
especially football fans make BYU football as big as Ohio State, USC's of the
world. Oh I understand because in the LDS bubble it is.
One Nil to the Arsenal said:"Then why no invite from a BCS
conference? If I was a Cougar fan, I'd be upset too. People deal with jealousy
in many ways."Maybe an invite from a BCS Conference is not the
end-all be-all for BYU. In fact, it's on record that BYU was in the mix in the
past for a big conference invite but the board of trustees, aka First
Presidency/Quorum of the Twelve of the church, were leary of leaving the U to
fend for itself (1990's). So BYU by it's actions has proven that a BCS
Conference is not the ultimate goal of the athletics department, that a move to
such a conference would have to be in harmony with the mission of the
university.BYU certainly has the football legacy. It really doesn't
make sense that they wouldn't even be considered when you look at their
far-reaching fanbase, facilities, history and ability to generate revenue.
Especially when the Baylors and Vanderbilts and Iowa States of the world do
belong to BCS Conferences. The insistence of BYU hating Utah fans to rub it in
our faces is comical when you think about it.
@ SwoopThen why no invite from a BCS conference? If I was a Cougar
fan, I'd be upset too. People deal with jealousy in many ways. Great to see you have so many individual awards in team sport. Good on ya."Win a national award, of any kind, then you can talk about Utah's
national relevance". I thought Coach Whit won Coach of the year in 2008.
@Howard S."Let's all remember to not feed the trolls. It only
encourages them..."says the Utah troll trolling a BYU
article.Unlike you, the collective is very excited about the
upcoming season and playing Ole' Miss, Texas, Utah, Utah State, UCF, TCU, and
Hawaii on ESPN HD.How excited are you about playing USC on VERSUS?
Where will Utah's other games be played - Fox Regional, KUED?
@Howard"not to mention that their ESPN payout is significantly
less than Utah's PAC12 payout..."BYU's ESPN games will pay the
Cougars $8m to $12m THIS YEAR.How much will Utah's PAC 12 payout be
THIS YEAR?How many years is it going to be before Utah actually gets
their first pie-in-the-sky $21m to $30m payout? Has anyone bothered to tell you
that the PAC 12 television deal is back-end loaded and that the first few years
pay SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the last few years.Of course, when all
else fails, U can also run home to that big pay check waiting in some mailbox of
the future. U can take great solace in knowing that U have money in the bank
when the Utes are fighting Washington State and Colorado for PAC 12 cellar
dweller.Afterall, money is the only thing that really matters in the
crowntown,1) I was speaking hypothetically, that if BYU did have
that schedule 5 years in a row and went undefeated and won the national
championship, then Howard would still doubt. I never said it WOULD happen.2) Although it was hypothetical, never say never. BYU beating all those
teams COULD happen. BYU could beat anybody in the nation. To say they
absolutely cannot is just ignorant. Perhaps that could be said of teams like
New Mexico or UNLV, but not of a higher caliber team such as BYU. That schedule
will be nearly impossible to put together, but going undefeated is always a
Howard S.The collective just destroyed U in national ESPN-televised
games - SEVEN to one - with your only game courtesy of BYU.You are
operating under the delusion that it only matters if BYU wins.Have
you considered the fact that Utah also has to win or your PAC 12 membership
won't be any more meaningful than Washington State's?Where do you
think Utah's games will end up on the PAC 12 "family of networks" if
the Utes become PAC 12 cellar dwellers?Answer: Buried on the PAC 12
subscription-only station that only Utah fans and their weekly opponents will be
watching.This U fan propaganda that BYU has to win, but Utah
doesn't, is laughable.
One NilA 27-year-old national championship is INFINITELY better than
NO national championship.A 20-year-old Heisman is INFINITELY better
than NO Heisman.15 national individual awards are INFINITELY better
than NO national individual awards.6 college football hall of fame
inducted players are INFINITELY better than NO college football hall of fame
inducted players.17 Top 25 finishes (both polls) is more than three
times better than 5 Top 25 finishes (both polls).This little boy
mentality that nothing significant happened in college football before some fans
left grade school is laughable.Win a national award, of any kind,
then you can talk about Utah's national relevance.ESPN already let
us know what they think of Utah's relevance.
Congratulations my Cougar friends,It took some work, and while none
of your numbers are conclusive, you have found some interesting statistics. But, I do wonder how frustrating it must feel for the Collective that
with a belief in that massive fan base, it has been insufficient to attract a
major conference invite?And without a major conference affiliation,
the Collective is now left to scramble for WAC/MWC match ups in October and
November, not to mention that their ESPN payout is significantly less than
Utah's PAC12 payout, and beyond that the Collective's only claim for validity
rests on game broadcasts that mean nothing if they don't win the games.That's really got to be frustrating.Let's all remember to not feed
the trolls. It only encourages them.
crowntown11984 is modern day!You guy just don't seem to
comprehend that the difference between a johnny-come-lately program and a legacy
program is legacy programs have a history that goes back more than 7 years and
have more than a couple of accomplishments.Even by your definition
of modern day (that is, the last 11 years), BYU has finished in the Top 15 THREE
times and Utah has only managed to finish in the Top 15 TWICE!BYU
has FOUR AP Top 25 finishes in the last 5 years. Utah only has FIVE AP Top 25
finishes in their entire history.BYU's trophy cases are filled with
15 national individual awards (including a Heisman), SEVEN national college hall
of fame inductee citations, and a national championship trophy.Utah's trophy CASE doesn't have a single national award of any kind, and only
one hall of fame inductee, a coach, from the 1940's.
@ Cougar_IndependenceAre you really pulling the National
Championship thing? When was that, the Reagan Administration? I was so young,
I can't even remember it. Let's face it, your little bowl game in San Diego
against 6-5 Michigan was nothing to brag about. I bet you still watch reruns of
that game on KBYU don't you? Good for you. Go Cougars! How did your last
quest for perfection go?
Duckhunter,You've read my comments, so you know that I do "have
an issue" with Ute fans who refuse to recognize "BYU's 40 year run of
success."I also have issue with your prolific use of
"LOL," for what it's worth. Anyway...you assume that I
don't rebut some of the pro-Ute posters because I don't like BYU. That's not
true. If you read my posts more carefully (check the two in this string, for
example), you'll see that I rarely say anything negative about BYU. I was
disagreeing with your statements that Utah's value is limited to being the
requisite 12th member of the new Pac-12, and to being the opponent for
"elect teams." You also said, "anything I write eats
at you." That's not true either. In my proceeding post, for example, I
said, "I agree that BYU has 'added value to every conference it has been
in.'" That was YOU I was agreeing with!I'm sorry if you feel
singled out. I'll watch for a chance to rebut something Hedgehog says, if that
will make you feel better.
@TrueBlueRadio broadcasts? Like I said on SL Trib as a die hard Ute
fan I don't know of a single Ute that listens to the radio broadcasts, unless
the game is on and we're driving to a friends or a local pub. I wonder how many
BYU fans are at local pubs watching?I haven't listened to a radio
broadcast since the 80s, odd that people would listen to the radio when one,
with a little research skills, can find a live stream on the Internet. I would like to see numbers for teams like USC and Texas.
Re:Riverton Cougar But you guys don't have the team to beat LSU, USC
Ohio St etc. So kudos on the scheduling but in all reality your never gonna win
a NC in modern day college football.
Looks like deductive reasoning's numbers were a little off Howard.BYU Football Fans(184,000) vs Utah Football Fans(75,000) is more like a 2 1/2
to 1 advantage.
BYU could have 5 seasons in a row playing Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Stanford,
Oregon, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Ohio State, Utah (have to throw that in there for
them), Boise State, and Notre Dame each year, go undefeated all 5 years, and win
the national championship each of those years and Howard will STILL claim that
it was undeserved and that BYU is a rotten team.
Don't ya just hate it when all of those silly numbers get in the way of a firm
denial of reality?
@HowardMaybe this will help our doubting friend:"According to Arbitron's Portable People Meter (PPM) data for the Salt
Lake City-Ogden-Provo Designated Market Area (DMA), BYU Football on KSL Radio
outperformed Utah Football on its ESPN 700 radio home by a better than
two-to-one margin in most key demographics (2010 season, game-by-game analysis).
Season Average - Season High - Best Five Game AverageBYU
Football on KSL Radio - 184,000 - 229,200(Utah) - 212,700Utah Football on
ESPN 700 - 75,000 - 153,100(TCU) - 97,200In-Game, Head-to-Head: BYU
@ Utah on 11/27/10 (% Share of Listening Audience)Team - Persons 12+;
Adults 25-54; Men 25-54; Adults 18-49; Men 18-49BYU - 27.0; 23.3; 29.6;
23.0; 27.2Utah - 6.8; 3.8; 1.8; 4.1; 1.7Spin away, Howard, but
the numbers don't lie - and they are quantifiable and verifiable.
@Uteanymousdeductive reasoning made statements about significant
differences in out-of-state fan bases, which despite considerable effort on the
part of the Collective no one has been able to quantify.As I recall
s/he also made claims of a 2-1 advantage in the state of Utah fan bases.
Relative stadium sizes doesn't prove or disprove a 2-1 assertion.
@Just the FAXJust, my friend, deductive reasoning asked
me to prove his assertions were wrong. Fyi... that would be proving a
negative.As for supporting an argument... read carefully... I have
made no assertion, or argument... I have only asked that deductive
reasoning and his/her supporters provide quantifiable evidence to support their
assertions.Which they have been unable to do.
Point 1: Can some ute tell me why you refer to BYU's football championship in
1984 like it was ancient history, generations ago. When in reality it was in my
lifetime, and I'm not that old.Yet U refer to Utes basketball
championship in 1944, not in my lifetime, like it was the latest news and proves
U have a basketball dynasty.U can't have it both ways.Point 2: I just read an article on the LA Times about USC. There was not a
single comment by hedgie, kamute, or howie. Face it, U are obsessed with the Y
and are not ready to move on. U need to know everything about BYU, by reading
every article and spewing their negative vermin in hopes of consoling each
other. Reality - U will never be able replicate what BYU has achieved, even
with the PAC10.2 trying to boost U on her shoulders.
Howard has adopted the ostrich technique for debate. When the evidence is
against you, just bury your head in the sand and pretend that it doesn't
exist.However, two pieces of evidence are undeniable and
incontrovertible:BYU has had a 65,000 seat stadium for over 30
years.Utah has had a 45,000 seat stadium for less than 10 years, and
it was even smaller before that.Physical proof that Utah's fanbase
is MUCH smaller than BYU's, even in Utah's home state.
@Howard S.Looks like you're just spouting off.Proving
that there are more Utah fans than BYU fans in California, Arizona, Washington,
Oregon or Colorado isn't proving a negative. Your utter lack of any factual
evidence to support your argument is simply your admission that the original
assertion was true and you have no evidence whatsoever to dispute it.
@Swoop "Alumni numbers don't tell the whole story,*********Right... and your numbers don't tell the whole story
either.So as I suggested to our friend Mr/s. deductive reasoning,
perhaps it's best to not try to quantify the unquantifiable.Just a
@deductive reasoningLooks like someone has been busy. Alas, citing a lot of numbers does not constitute quantifiable evidence that
your assertions are true. And asking me to prove a negative does
not constitute evidence supporting your statements either.Perhaps
you should try again...Or maybe it would be best to stop making
unquantifiable statements and admit that there is no evidence to prove your
HowieA little simple math on the numbers from "deductive
reasoning" for the last 30 years:AlumniCalfornia - BYU
123,000; Utah 30,000Arizona - BYU 45,000; Utah 6,600Washington - BYU
51,000; Utah 8,700Oregon - BYU 27,000; Utah 5,100Colorado - BYU
30,000; Utah 9,000Alumni numbers don't tell the whole story, but its
certain that a commuter school like Utah isn't going to attract very many fans
from outside its core base of Utah who aren't Utah alumni.
nomad1, you clearly think that a BYU season ticket is not worth that much. So
name what you think it is worth.
Anyone interested in buying my byu season tickets? Shoot me an email. I'm not
paying to watch us play the wac. Too many 2:1 games tell me good teams don't
want to play in Provo. With only 1 or 2 good games at home a year, I can't
justify spending $3000.00! Tom Holmoe get us in the Big12!
PAC12Fan"Utah fans need to move on. Focus your attention on
teams that matter. Come out to PAC 12 day on Friday at noon to celebrate your
school entering the Conference of Champions."Gotta laugh at the
irony of a Utah fan posting this on an article entitled:"BYU
football adjusting to schedules and its new-found freedom"Nothing speaks little brother like a "call to arms" on your big
PAC12Fan,I love how you bring USU into the international
conversation, yet somehow forget that BYU TEACHES more languages than any other
school in the US, and the next closest is Yale by about 12 languages. BYU is
more international and diverse than you think. BYU even has a campus in Hawai'i
that attracts many Asians and focuses on sending them back to their home
countries to make a difference there, not just to train bright students to be
brighter. By the way, I highly doubt that Utah's involvement will have any
impact on BYU's international presence. I've attended BYU and BYU-Hawai'i and
BYU has a very set foot in the door to the international community. By the way, how do you know "that Utah and Utah State have worked closely
with multinational organizations for years" if you claim to be one of many
"If the accomplishments of previous generations had any current relevance,
BYU would have been invited to a major conference."Again, that
is under the assumption that football is the ONLY factor that decides who gets
invited. I guarantee you that if Utah and BYU had completely switched football
history (i.e. Utah has a national championship and no BCS games while BYU has no
national championship but have 2 BCS wins, etc.), Utah still would have been
invited over BYU. Why? It has been discussed multiple times already, so if you
don't already know, then I feel sorry for you.The amount of hatred
you guys show for BYU is stunning. You guys should find a more satisfying
hobby. If your happiness depends on BYU failing miserably, then I'm afraid you
may find that your life isn't a very happy one.
Howard S."Care to support you assertions with a little
quantification?"Although not all Mormons are BYU fans, the
majority of Mormons are BYU fans. The only PAC 12 state where BYU
students don't significantly outnumber Utah students is Utah, and everyone knows
that BYU fans outnumber Utah fans at least 2-1 in Utah. Student
enrollments are only the tip of the iceberg, but even there, BYU students
outnumbered Utah students at least 3 to 1 in every other PAC 12 state in 2010.
Extrapolate that out for the past 30 years, and then extend that to families who
are BYU fans, but have never even had a student attend BYU, and there's no
question that BYU fans outnumber Utah fans by a significant margin in every PAC
12 state. It's not even close. 2010 Enrollment BYU 33,000; Utah
31,000State - Mormon Population BYU Students Utah StudentsUtah - 1,885,000 BYU 10,700(33%) UofU 22,000(71%)California - 758,000
4,100 1,000Arizona - 381,000 1,500 - 220Washington - 263,000
1,700 - 290Oregon - 147,000 - 900 - 170Colorado - 140,000 1,000 -
300Care to prove my assertions wrong?
Utah fans need to move on. Focus your attention on teams that matter. Come out
to PAC 12 day on Friday at noon to celebrate your school entering the Conference
of Champions. Do you realize the company you are joining and the hundreds of
millions of dollars your university will now receive due to this new
affiliation? It's not just network money but larger grants from foreign nations
such as Japan, China and Korea that support the PAC 12 schools. It's what they
know. Huge oriental multinationals send their best and brightest to PAC 12
schools. I know that Utah and Utah State have worked closely with multinational
organizations for years. It will increase dramatically and the locals will see
the bar raised over the next few years. It will even raise the bar at your
hated rival down the road. It's good for the state. Your football
team will do very well this year and should go to a good bowl game. Your
gymnastics team will be the best in the conference and compete nationally. I
expect great things from my newly adopted team. Many of us transplants are
adopting the Utes.
MichiganCoog"Go ask WSU..."*****Okay,
while I'm at it I'll ask the Cougars what it feels like to go to the Rose Bowl
in this decade.The Red Cougars know the feeling of going to the Rose
Bowl in the current decade... The Blue Cougars wouldn't even know
what it feels like to go to a BCS game, much less the Rose Bowl.
@Cougar_Independence National championship?If the
accomplishments of previous generations had any current relevance, BYU would
have been invited to a major conference.
Hey Howie,Go ask WSU, and other so-called BCS teams that are bottom
feeders in BCS conferences, go ask them what all that money does for them...kind
of like the old Beatles hit: "Money can't buy me love"...which was so
obviously demonstrated when the PAC10.2 announced their TV broadcasts this
spring...leaving Utah out in the cold with their little binkies and blankies
huddled up in a corner and wimpering to themselves. You don't have the love, nor
the money (yet), and are relegated to KALL 910 for its fans to pic up their
games this fall...what a bummer to be a Ute, left the MWC to join the big boys
club, only to be left outside in the cold, looking in: No money, less TV
exposure than they did while in the MWC, a green offense that has no experience
to speak of, a very likely down year, and the potential for a major face
plant...Oh the pain, oh the misery...whereas it is great to be a Cougar!
re: BlueSaint | 8:05 p.m. June 27, 2011 The same ESPN that annually
bludgeons our senses with Berman & Vitale? I could care less
what ESPN thinks. After all, they believe Derek Jeter has a military rank.re: hedgehog | 6:25 p.m. June 27, 2011 "Utah can offer
the **best of both worlds**."Paging Sammy Hagar aka the Red
Wow, howie > hog today. NightOwlAmerica,"You're only
deal is with ESPN." Buddy, that is the only deal BYU needs. They are
going for one thing---exposure, and not money, although ESPN will give them
money. Being on ESPN gives them that. Utah's deal gives them money, but not
near the exposure BYU is getting. Both moved on to places that fit both
schools. Don't try to make it one sided.
@Howard SShow me a national title utah? Oops! Would you like BYU to show you what a national title looks like?Go
@Cougar_Independence I understand that in the absence of a major
broadcast payout, and in the absence of a major conference affiliation the
Collective has only TV appearances to justify their relevance.But
here is the truth... no team has ever had a relevant football season based
solely on the number of TV appearances.You have to win the games to
be relevant, and without winning TV appearances mean nothing.So,
perhaps the Nation should win a few games as an independent before claiming
independent glory and relevance.On second thought, waiting for
victories before claiming the glory is not really part of the make up of the
Cougar Collective. BYU prefers to claim the glory of the quest for
perfection... Utah shows them how its done.
Old Navy: Typically if leagues add members it comes just prior to renegotiating
their 1st tier TV rights. The Big-East has rights coming due in 2013, the
Big-12 comes in 2016. With this independence deal in place, BYU is in a
position to join the Big-12 at the pleasure of either party. The Big-East
coming up explains why they might well have made BYU a football only offer or at
least inquired of their interest.
@Old NavyNo need crying over spilt milk. Ute fans can say BYU is and
never was close to a big12 invite. I'm fine with that. But in that same
sentence, let's hear the ute fans state that BYU has the only college football
national championship in the state of Utah. Can any ute fans face that
reality?I have yet to meet a ute fan who isn't talking about how
they deserved the 2004 title, or how they deserved the 2008 title. Face reality
Utah fans, you didn't get it. BYU has one, and you don't! Go
Where's Stockton"Care to quantify where all the Utah fans are
on the West Coast and in Arizona."**********No, I do not
care to quantify... I didn't make an unsubstantiated assertion. deductive reasoning did. But deductive reasoning doesn't seem to
care to substantiate his/her assertions.And apparently neither do
@hedgehog"Thank goodness a handful of mormons live outside of
Utah county because the best ones all are picking Utah."Jake
heaps = 5 star QB, #1 overall ranking by scout.com, from state of Washington,
chose BYU over USC, Notre Dame, LSU, Washington, Texas, Oregon, Utah, etc.Ross Apo = 4 star WR, offered by Texas, but decommitted to go to BYU,
from the state of TexasNational recruiting pool is very accurate!
Remember Austin Collie? From California. Remember Max Hall? From Arizona.BYU gets athletes from all over. And from Utah? You remember Harvey
Unga? You remember Matt Reynolds? BYU as a private school can out
recruit Utah, any day! Go Cougars!
Howie... Care to quantify where all the Utah fans are on the West Coast and in
Arizona...If you're looking for Non Mormon types... it won't be an overwhelming
number...What you will find at away games will most definitely be Mormon support
of Utah... and among those...most will definitely support Utah ...but second
only to BYU. BYU's National Fan Base is Utah's largest support element outside
of Utah and most likely especially when Utah is not winning still it's largest
in state base support against Non Utah sports teams regardless of where in the
US they come from. Utah's fan base is only bigger than BYU fans that support
Utah when Utah is playing BYU.
BYU has adjusted quite nicely to Independence, of course when you have espn on
your side, it makes things that much smoother. It's so nice to know we will be
playing on national tv each week ( at least 7 games on ESPN and the rest on
BYUTV) instead of settling for the MTN, Versus or having to try and search the
web for a broadcast. You jealous ute trolls really crack me up especially
Howie S, you must have close to 20 posts on this BYU article alone. Hey all you
jealous Ute trolls, remind me how many televised games you have this year? lets
see you play on versus, FSN and ESPN2 one time each. And we all know who got you
on ESPN2, you can thank BYU later. Good luck finding the other games, I guess
you can search for them on the web or there is always the radio broadcast LOL.
@ bleed crimson"utah + espn & fox + $21-31 million + Rose
Bowl > byu"utah has a home game on ESPN = falseutah
has a game on fox = falseutah has played in a rose bowl = falseUtah
will win the PAC 12 = falseBYU has 7 games guaranteed on ESPN =
TrueBYU has won a national title = trueBYU will outshine Utah in
football = trueGo Cougars!
Utebuster:Thank you very much, you validated my point exactly. It's
actually been more like 15 years that the pro-BYU media has drug around this
illusion that BYU is headed to the Big 12. Whatever the reason, BYU has not
been invited. Since you are the self-proclaimed expert of BYU
football, please tell us exactly when the grand event is going to happen so we
can all write it on our calenders?BYU class of 1977
@Howard S"That is different than 4 games at South Bend, for
example, in return for 2 games at LES, for example."And I will
say it once and I'll say it again, 4 games in South Bend are better than home
and home games against USC. Why? Because all 4 games in South Bend are on
national TV on NBC. Utah's game against USC is on versus! That's laughable.BYU left Versus behind in the MWC, but apparently Utah couldn't do
that!Enjoy regional games against Washington State and Colorado that
are broadcasted on Fox Sports net and versus.BYU will enjoy bringing
in Texas and Notre Dame, and will be playing those teams on ESPN.Go
@hedgehog"Thank goodness a handful of mormons live outside of Utah
county because the best ones all are picking Utah."hh, who are
you talking about? Did Jake Heaps, Tayson Hill or Tanner Mangum pick Utah. How
about Ross Apo or Josh Weeks? Kyle Van Noy, Alani Fua, Uona Kaveinga and Zac
Stout didn't pick U. I could spout off another dozen "best ones"
outside of Utah county who didn't pick U. So I'm curious who you're talking
deductive reasoning"PAC 12 where BYU fans don't outnumber Utah
fans by a significant margin."**********deductive
reasoning is full of assertions, but short on quantification.Care to
support you assertions with a little quantification?Or do you just
prefer to spout unsupportable statements as if they were fact?
Hedgie...the Non Mormon pro Utah fan Base hardly exists. You will always have
more Pro BYU fans Supporting Utah at home or away games than you will ever have
non Mormon pro Utah fans. And just as logically seuqential is the fact that
there already is almost as many Pro BYU Mormons at Utah home games supporting
Utah against other teams other than BYU as there are Pro Utah Mormon fans. Then
when it comes to playing on the West Coast or in Arizona...Utah will invariably
be predominantly dependant on Pro BYU Mormon fans coming out to support Utah in
thier away games. There is no way that you can escape how much you need BYU's
Large National fan base.
BYU will be Independent, period! I don't see them accepting an invite, if it
ever comes from the big-12. People are underestimating what the partnership with
ESPN means, and what it could do for the BYU in the long run. This first year of
Independence for BYU is just the beginning of something bigger than any of us
ever imagined. Look for BYU and ESPN to change the landscape of Collegiate
Football by this brave move.
ute buster"What you still don't get is that BYU's recruiting
pool is also nationwide"*****************BYU's nationwide
recruiting pool, just like their nationwide fanbase is a thousand miles wide...
and a half inch deep.A real national program has a recruiting pool,
and fan base, a thousand miles wide... and a 10 miles deep.
uteBusters & Old Navy: The Big-12 invited BYU to the organizing table in
1993 BYU President Rex E. Lee revealed a couple of years after the fact. Yes,
BYU was the religious school that Texas and the Big-8 (Nebraska, Oklahoma etc)
Presidents wanted, but it really isnt known which took place first; The
political shenanigans of a few Texas Legislature members and then Governor Anne
Richards (Poor George Bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth!), OR the
decision by the leadership of the LDS Church to no allow BYU to make such a move
largely out of the fear of what such a move could do to a Utah program that was
absolutely nothing compared to BYU back in 1993. Which came first is anyones
guess, but some in LDS Church leadership are concerned about the BYU program
becoming too big for its own good. I think they will allow BYU to join the
Big-12 when it comes now that Utah is in the Pac-12, but there will no doubt be
some who feel strongly about Utah State being left further behind and resent
what happened 50 years ago even more.
Holmoe says of offended MWC and WAC teams..."...They'll get
over it..."************Funny... sounds like what an
unfaithful husband says about his outraged wife.
re: sprywolf | 8:53 p.m. June 26, 2011 Perhaps. The real question(s)
are: Will the record and talent base?
"What you still don't get is that BYU's recruiting pool is also
nationwide"ute buster,Wow! that sound sooo
impresive...until you peel back the onion. ND,USC,MI,TX are what one typically
thinks of when you say "nationwide". As in they have a shot at any
elite athlete. ByU? That "nationwide" chest pounding only incorporates
zeliot mormons. You couldn't slice that piece of pie and smaller.Thank goodness a handful of mormons live outside of Utah county because the
best ones all are picking Utah.
KamUteOh that's right it will only be every other year that Utah loses in
front 92,516 predominantly USC fans. After the novelty wears off in a couple of
years it will be Utah losing to USC infront of about 14,000 predominatly BYU
fans who came out to RES to try and give a little support to Utah because Half
apathy had set in as is typical with the usual Utah fan base loyalty.
According to Holmoe BYU needs home and home games with the MWC.The
delicious irony is that when BYU plays on the road in the MWC, the games will be
broadcast on the MTN. because they own the broadcast rights.Suuuweeeet...
I love that in the alternate reality of the the Collective their $10 million
ESPN payout (generously estimated) reflects a greater value of their program
over the value of Utah's program as reflected by their $20 million
(conservatively estimated) PAC 12 payout.Clue for Cougars...In the reality that most people live in $20 million reflects a greater
value than $10 million.
uteBusters said:: And, Utah can't offer a legacy program that has
been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977 and has won all of the awards that
really matter -- national championship, Heisman, multiple College Football Hall
of Fame, multiple national individual.BYU's trophy cases are filled
with national awards.Utah's trophy case has a couple of BCS
trophies, and nothing else."Some legacy program. And people are
still stuck clinging to that flypaper? All that legacy got BYU was a career in
the WAC & MWC. And a crackerjack national title against a 6-6 team. Whew
that was a tough win.
Funny how posters like to stretch the truth here.Go look at the 2011
TV schedule for college football and look how many times BYU will be playing on
the ESPN family of channels, and then look at what potentially could be shown.
Some happy go lucky fans are getting ahead of themselves here. BYU is not the
only school playing on ESPN multiple times kitty fans. Utah is part
of a multi network deal that BYU does not have. I know what people are going to
say "Utah is only on TV once this year." Alright. Look down the road.
Utah is going to make a boat load of money as part of these TV deals. And they
will be on TV, that is a fact. Even the Pac-12 Network plans to show all home
and away games of both basketball & football in a couple years.Go
ahead and make fun of Versus. At least Utah & Pac-12 fans will have a choice
to watch on the Pac-12 Network, ESPN/ABC, Fox Sports and Versus. BYU fans won't.
You're only deal is with ESPN.
Schedule Nebraska! I know they'd think BYU would be an easy win, but BYU would
surprise them. Please, stop scheduling USU and all other lower
division quality schools. Let's play other teams that might be easier like
Buffalo, Temple, Tulsa, Wake Forest, etc. We can travel all around the country
still that way.
KamUte...Have to admit... losing most every year in front of 92,516
predominantly USC fans does have a bit of zing to it...If that's what you call
exciting...It will be the closest that Utah will come to a Major bowl for quite
hedgehogWhat you still don't get is that BYU's recruiting pool is
also nationwide. Over 2/3's of BYU's students come from outside Utah. Half of
BYU's football players are from outside of Utah. With an average of 25
scholarships offered each year, it's obvious that only about a dozen of those
scholarships are going to be offered to Utah LDS athletes, and BYU and Utah will
only be going head-to-head for a handful of those athletes.Utah
can't offer the best of both worlds, because Utah can't offer the culture that
is unique to BYU. Utah can't offer the national fanbase that BYU offers. Utah
can't offer the variety of elite nationwide competition that BYU can offer. And,
Utah can't offer a legacy program that has been a perennial Top 25 team since
1977 and has won all of the awards that really matter -- national championship,
Heisman, multiple College Football Hall of Fame, multiple national
individual.BYU's trophy cases are filled with national awards.Utah's trophy case has a couple of BCS trophies, and nothing else.
Old Navy You may have been attending BYU games for decades, but you
obviously aren't a BYU fan or you would know that the Big 8 was ready to invite
BYU to the Big 12 when it expanded, until the governor of Texas intervened to
force the Big 12 to take Baylor instead.The Big 12 nearly
disintegrated last summer and come November, when the Big Ten, ACC, SEC and PAC
12 are all playing conference championship games, the Big 12 is going to feel
sorely left out.It's only a matter of time before the Big 12 decides
to become the Big 12 again, and when that happens, BYU is the odds on favorite
to be invited.The only illusion is your supposed knowledge of
conference expansion history.
"Utah can't match BYU's national fanbase"CG,Ok, we got it; More mormons follow BYU on a National level....shocker. I agree
most out of state mormon athletes would chose byU over Utah...again shocker.
As far as instate elite mormon athletes? Not so sure anymore. Utah can offer the
best of both worlds.
Armed Forces Bowl will sure be exciting if BYU hits 6 wins this year. Humbling
losses on the worldwide leader.
Howie...Playing Cal, Oregon and Stanford is one thing...winning in October and
November is something altogether different. Survive September beyond Montana
State and the Southern conference and then we'll see wherein Utah's momentum is
headed. Look too far beyond September and Montana State could be your Appalacha
State. Doesn't matter how big they are or even who they are... you still have to
beat them... You've got a winged quaterback who wasn't involved to speak of in
the Spring...due to his injury and surgery. Two backups that looked terrible in
the spring game...a completely new and complex offense under Norm Chow that no
one is going to learn overnight and who will be lucky to have half down by the
end of the season. Langi and your other two new running backs are going to have
to be able to catch the ball first more times than they'll ever be running it
from scrimmage. Your O line is like a sieve right now so protecting Wynn is
going to be a big question mark. Other than these few minor details Utah be
very fortunate to hit November over the .500 mark.
I live in Provo and I've been attending BYU games since 1974. I've been hearing
that BYU is going to be invited to the Big 12 for about 10 years now. When is
this great event going to happen? Or is this another illusion created by the
pro-BYU media?If the Big 12 wanted BYU, this would have already
happened. It's time to face this fact BYU fans.
patriot"All I'm saying is the Y can't match the Pac12 which
gives Utah a huge advantage recruiting blue chip LDS athletes."Only in your dreams.Utah can't match BYU's national fanbase,
national television exposure, or the strict living standards of BYU that are a
huge advantage for BYU in recruiting many blue chip LDS athletes.Delusional Utah fans will soon find out that Utah's supposed "BCS"
recruiting advantage has existed at other BCS schools for years. Utah doesn't
offer anything that USC, Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, Notre Dame, Ohio
State, LSU, Georgia, ad nauseum, have had for years, schools BYU has been going
head-to-head with for blue chip LDS athletes for DECADES!A couple of
mediocre seasons in the PAC 12, and Utah's supposed recruiting advantage will
disappear as quickly as basketball crowds at the Huntsman.
@Kampuke"You act like Utah games simply won't be on
television."Don't worry, ma'am, you'll get at least one game a
year on ESPN, thanks to BYU. S'funny though, our game with Utah State is good
enough to be aired on ESPN (the mother station) while you guys were seen as less
than the Aggies (ESPN2). But, playing USC did get you a game on Versus.
Woohooo!Speaking of ESPN, I understand it's a tad complicated for
you to comprehend seeing as how ESPN is ginormous and has zero interest in you.
Matters like these are beyond your scope (which is why the U always needs big
brothers to take care of them). ESPN signed the deal with BYU first, then BYU
started scheduling games with some of these landmark, historic college football
powerhouses. Aren't you tired of being jealous all the time?@Howard,Interesting you bring up playing San Jose STate, seeing as how
you guys have played them twice in the past few years. I guess they're not as
bad as Montana Tech though. Also funny how neither ND or Michigan found you
worthy of return games in your high school stadium (Rice-Chex Stadium).
There is way too much my "Stretch Armstrong doll can beat your GI Joe
Doll" going on here. BYU and Utah have virtually walked the same path since
Kyle and Bronco took over. Utah had an awesome win over #4 Alabama, BYU had one
over #3 Oklahoma. The U was good enough to get an invite from the PAC10 and BYU
was good enough to go independent. That is the cold hard truth people. Love me,
hate me, hit me with your Rockem Sockem Robot dressed up like a Ute or Cougar.
Utah is joining the Pac 12 which brings prestige, quality games, and a ton of
money. They deserved an invite for being consistently good for a while now and
having had two great football seasons. They beat BYU about half of the time and
they have many players go on to play in the NFL. Since the invite to the Pac 12
their recruiting has improved and they are getting more quality in-state
recruits than they were able to sign in the past. Their football program is in
a great position. Now that that is out of the way... I'm pretty
sure that this was an article about BYU, its scheduling, and new-found freedom.
Yes, BYU had to schedule some cupcakes these first few years as they adjust (as
the article points out). This isn't much different from other elite teams (i.e.
Florida, OSU) that schedule several cupcakes to round out their schedules. I'm
amazed with how many great teams BYU was able to schedule in so little time.
And the t.v. deal is pretty sweet too. I'm glad that I can now consistently
watch my team on t.v. Go cougs!
@KamUteGotta good laugh out of that Ute logic (as always). You kids
say: 1) No "good" teams would want to play BYU; 2)
The only reason good teams want to play BYU is because of ESPN; 3) ESPN
wouldn't save any good time slots to show BYU games 4) ESPN is only
showing BYU games because of the teams they are playing.Ute logic
completely ignores the fact that BYU has been playing (and beating)
"good" teams for decades. ESPN wouldn't partner with a team they had
no interest in showing on their network. All but one game (so far) is on
Saturday. They really ought to make "Basic Logic" a GE
class up there on the hill.
KamUteNice spin, but you and I both know that if BYU was only
playing one game on ESPN (at Utah), and Utah had SEVEN ESPN games scheduled for
2011, you would be able to hear the chestbeating from the hill all the way down
to Provo.EVERY Utah fan was bitterly disappointed when they found
out Utah's PAC 12 debut at USC was going to be televised on good ol' VERSUS.
Those who claim they weren't are only fooling themselves.Three of
BYU's seven ESPN games are home games, with a fourth still to be announced.
BYU's contract with ESPN guarantees at least four home games televised each
year.It's funny that Utah fans are so insecure that they have to
predict massive losses for BYU just to feel better about Utah's only humiliating
losses last year -- the worst, at the hands of non-BCS teams.
re:Truth MachineAll I'm saying is the Y can't match the Pac12 which
gives Utah a huge advantage recruiting blue chip LDS athletes. Every passing
year you will see a significant rise for the U and a decline for the Y and it
has nothing to do with Bronco or what BYU has to offer. It really boils down to
what BYU can't offer compared to the U - playing against the NCAA elite and
playing in one of the biggest TV markets to boot. There will always be student
athletes who want to play in Provo but what gave the Y an occasional top 10 team
was when they were able to attract those kids who weren't the proto-type lds
athlete... the Ty Detmers, Jim McMahon etc... Utah will now be getting those
types because of the PAC 12 and Utah will also get the LDS kid who is good
enough to play in the NFL and wants to serve a mission too. BYU will get decent
players but just not the blue chipers. Watch and see.
@ Independent 1:23 p.m.I'd say one "problem" is that Boise
usually wins it's big games and never gets blown out at home.
At the "Truth Machine?" Very few are bothered by the ESPN
thing. It's old. I know that I will be able to see my team every single week on
my regular cable and many will see the games without cable. You act like Utah
games simply won't be on television.BYU's goal is exposure and that
is what they got. Be happy for your team. Boise State was the darling and it got
them noticed but did not help them land in a decent conference. Your exposure
will help BYU land some decent games but it won't help BYU get into a BCS
conference or game. BYU's independence also won't help them earn 19-30 million
annually. ESPN will however show BYU's 50 point losses to TCU, Texas, etc. How
will that feel being exposed? I wonder if KBYU will replay the big losses. Speaking of ESPN, does anyone think that maybe ESPN wouldn't be showing
BYU at all if they weren't playing Texas, Ole Miss, Utah, TCU or that midnight
slot at Hawaii? Notice that very few of the home games are on the
"Worldwide Leader". I wonder why.
@PAC12Fan: You hit the nail right on the head. BYU will end up in the Big-12
more than likely, and you're very correct about the conference affiliation
futures of Boise State and Utah State. USU might have to drop football or if it
survives drop down to the Big-Sky. Boise State won't go to another conference
since their academic make-up is less than Utah Valley University...practically
no post-graduate programs to speak of.
Did Utah and Colorado bring any value to the PAC 12 expansion or as Duckhunter
claims did Utah bring no value at all except to add a conference championship
game? This question was posed and answered by Jon Wilner of the Mercury News
back on May 11, 2011. He had TV experts with no dog in the fight analyze the
new PAC 12 TV deal and the championship game. Their conclusion:"So if we assign $14 million to the football championship game and back
that out of the $50 million difference between the deal the league actually
signed with 12 teams and the estimated $200 million deal it would have signed
with 10 That leaves $36 million as the value of Colorado and Utah
themselves or about $18 million each."This will probably not
settle the matter with Duckhunter as he seems to always draw his own conclusions
which are to slam Utah any chance he gets.
KamUte | 1:58 p.m. June 27, 2011 South Jordan, UT"Say
what any of you want. The jealousy pill is hard to swallow."=====It's nice to see you finally have the courage to admit that.
clowntown"I wonder how you think you will get to the BCS bowl
when you will be out of contention by October?"I wonder how you
think you will get to a BCS bowl when you're out of contention after your first
PAC 12 game, which, btw, is September 10th?
"Utah is the sure bet and the Y is a big risk for recruits in my
opinion."patriot,you are correct... and recuits
seem to agree.Byu is and will continue to be outside looking in.
patriot"Already you can see the recruit wars being won by
Utah..."You're only deluding yourself. A recruit
choosing Utah because he was promised a chance to play QB at the U instead of LB
at the Y doesn't prove anything.Take off your crimson-colored
glasses and you'll see that a handful of recruits in one season is an
insignificantly small sample size that doesn't in any way prove a particular
trend. Recruits give all kinds of reasons for choosing a particular school, and
the same factor that is a positive factor for one recruit, may be completely
ignored or even be a negative factor for another recruit.
Many of you are correct that Utah was in the right place at the right time.
There were not better choices. If anyone thinks two BCS wins didn't help, they
are mistaken. Whatever it takes. I'm happy for BYU. They are in a
better situation than being in the MTN. Too many Cougar and Ute
haters posting on these articles. BYU is happy with their
independence.Utah is happy with their conference affiliation.Be happy that you aren't Utah State. They are a good school. They try hard
but will never be invited to a larger conference. Boise State is
another that won't end up in a large conference because.... it's in Idaho and
outside of football, they have nothing else to offer any conference. They are no
longer the darling of ESPN. They were adopted and stayed in good graces because
they won 90% of the time. BYU has that opportunity to be the
"darlings". As long as they win, they will remain the
Re: crowntown1Did BYU sign a contract to play Ohio State and USC?
Did I miss that announcement? Awesome! Things just keep getting better in
Already you can see the recruit wars being won by Utah and that is mainly due to
the Pac 12 conference. Kids just know what they are getting with Utah - USC,
UCLA, Cal, Standford etc... along with having the chance to play in the Rose
Bowl and all the TV exposure that goes along with that. BYU can't come close to
matching that no matter how they spin things. Add to that Utah is a
mission-friendly school and there is really no reason - athletically speaking
-to go to the Y anymore for blue chip LDS athletes. BYU is really in a struggle
for survival and this indendence thing is a - could be good or could be bad -
deal. No one really knows yet. I suspect if the Y wins the big games then all
will go pretty well but I don't see prosperity lasting unless the Y can get into
the BIG 12 conference with Texas. Utah is the sure bet and the Y is a big risk
for recruits in my opinion.
Ok so then you will be humilihated on ESPN by the Notre Dame's, Ohio State's
USC's of College Football. I wonder how you think you will get to the BCS bowl
when you will be out of contention by October? "WInning" is not the
main focus of BYU football? I see right through you BYU fans.
KamUte"The jealousy pill is hard to swallow."The jealousy pill is indeed hard to swallow, especially when you're a newly
minted BCS team and you get totally ignored by the Worldwide Leader, while that
upstart Independent to the south steals all of your thunder by having over half
their games on ESPN.
@Utah95Do you have those same issues with wedgie, christina, howie,
etc. and their dismissive attitudes towards BYU's 40 year run of success? My
guess is that while you may disagree with them you really don't care because you
don't like BYU. So those comments don't matter while anything I write eats at
you. But let's examine what utah has accomplished. Certainly they
have improved over the last 20 years. Certainly they have had two great season
in the last 7 years. But is that really an indicator that they'll be a decades
long national power? Is it even evidence that they will be more than a middle of
the pac program?Frankly in comparison to the rest of the pac10 utah
has some real negatives. They are located in a mostly caucasion city in a cold
weather state that is dominated by a conservative religion. Now other than the
mostly caucasion aspect, which makes no difference to me, the other things I
look at as a positive. But does the pac10? Do the top recruits? utah will still
have the smallest athletic budget in the conference as well.6-7
years does not make a program. 40 years does.
@ Utah'95,I generally read your posts, but skip over the Ute trolls'
posts. They give Ute posters a bad name. I can get the gist of what they posted
from replies to them.My comment earlier about the trolls was that
they were really busy early on for this article.The Ute trolls know
who they are, as do the rest of us, so I don't need to name them.Too
bad so many posters keep feeding these trolls. They might go away if they got
ignored.Bantering is one thing. Trolls don't banter. (They might
think they do, but they don't.)
@nomad1You aren't fooling anyone. You are a utah troll and do not
have BYU season tickets. We've read your other anti BYU posts. That wasn't even
a good try.LOL!
Uteology | 1:17 p.m. June 27, 2011 Lame.BYU had a quest
for perfection. Doesn't every team? I don;t know a single team who doesn't want
to be perfect.Men state their goals and go out and accomplish them.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. It didn't make the quest any less realute trolls mock BYU for putting out the t-shirt, but the question is...Why isn't Utah putting their goals on a t-shirt? Why are they not being
man enough to state that they want to be perfect too? Maybe because perfection
was a fluke, not a destination.Be a man... Just saying
Utah making it to two BCS bowls had absolutely nothing to do with Utah being
invited to the PAC 12. And, even Dr. Hill has said that Utah's athletic
facilities are subpar. Utah was simply in the right place at the right time when
the conference realignment deck was being shuffled. Colorado, with subpar
basketball and football programs was invited before Utah, proving that athletic
success wasn't a factor.U think you're sitting in the cat bird's
seat, when, in reality, you're a small fish that just jumped into the shark
tank. September 10th could be an historic day for Utah, or it could be the
beginning of the end of Utah's football glory days.
UteologyThe "Quest" is old news.If 2008 was
really such a ground-breaking achievement, how did ABC/ESPN completely forget
about it so soon?Reality: BYU's 1984 National Championship, STILL
remembered 27 years later = 7 games on ESPNReality: Utah 2008 BCS
win, COMPLETELY forgotten 3 years later = 0 games on ESPN (except for your game
manaen | 11:56 a.m. June 27, 2011 Buena Park, CA Dude, get
away from Comcast they suck! Go with Verizon Fios. I live in So. Cal too and I
can get BYUtv. You are just like all the other Utes, give up before you even set
foot on the field. Please show up on Sept 17. The little brother think, he is
moving on to bigger and better things. Don't forget to show up for the family
reunion and get a spanking.
Say what any of you want. The jealousy pill is hard to swallow. Utah made it to
two BCS bowls when it counted. This is more than most of the Pac 10 schools.
This is one of the reasons they were invited in to the Pac 12. It made sense
along with some of the finest research institutions in the West, wealthy donors,
great facilities, loyal alumni, being in Salt Lake City. There is a lot of value
having Utah in the Pac 12. Utah won the lottery.I hope BYU gets
invited to the Big 12 and all the stuff that is being thrown at Utah will
boomerang back at them. We will then have to hear how the Big 12 is better than
the Pac 12. More bantar for all of us! It probably will happen one day and I'll
be happy for them. :)Don't forget Pac 12 day on July 1st and get
your Pac 12 gear.
nomad1There are plenty of BYU fans who will be more than happy to
buy your season tickets; besides, any fan who is giving up $3,000 worth of
season tickets because of one less than stellar home schedule doesn't seem like
a real fan; more like a troll.
NightOwlAmerica | 11:40 a.m. June 27, 2011 "Not all BYU games
will be on ESPN anyway. You might want to take the time and study the TV deal
that Utah will be involved with the next several years. Its big money and
several networks. ESPN/ABC, Fox Sports, Pac-12 Network, & Versus."The Pac 12 teams that is good with a winning record will be on TV. There
is no guarantee that Utah will be on TV just like Wazzu. On the other hand, BYU
is guarantee to be on TV.Just being on T.V does not guarantee a
victory just win and you will be on t.v. That goes for BYU and UT a like.
Hedgie:If your making that bold of a prediction. Well count BYU in
then because you are always and I mean always off on your prediction.Howie: exactly what I said you can't answer the questions you know that makes
your arguments garbage. You change the subject and go to basketball, really? You
and Hedgie and Chris B, are so typical and predictiable that its seriously
funny. I will talk basketball or football anytime with you however, you need to
do us all a favor, go do some homework before you continue to make yourself look
Boise State got to two BCS games by playing less impressive schedules than next
year's BYU schedule. What's the problem here?
@anti BCS | 12:11 p.m. June 27, 2011 BYU - SEVEN games and counting on
ESPN for 2011Utah - one game on ESPN (courtesy of BYU)BYU
reality vs Utah fantasy ---------Nope.Fantasy: BYU printing 50,000 preseason "Perfection" t-shirts Reality: BYU having to Fedex 50,000 "perfection" t-shirts to
Univeristy of Utah in the postseason
It's great that DirecTV has BYUtv, but the last I heard, they were NOT carrying
BYUtv in HD. While many games are on some form of ESPN this year, some are not.
For those of us away from the Wasatch front, we will once again be relegated to
watching BYU in MTN resolution...blurry! For those on this list from outside of
the Wasatch front and with DirecTV write them in a hurry to get BYUtv in HD.
Tell your non-sports friends, too.
I certainly hope that BYU is not considering playing any MWC foes on the road.
Wouldn't that be right back where we started...I mean on "the mtn."?
Of course, any MWC games could be played at neutral locations like TCU this
The home schedule sucks except for Utah. I'm getting rid of my season tickets
and will buy single tickets only. I cant get excited paying $3000.00 to watch
San Jose, Idaho and Idaho St. This indy thing is going to be a tough gig. I
think we should have stayed in the MWC!!
MiPRegardless of whether the rest of BYU's opponents are mediocre or
really bad, nobody is going to be able to argue that BYU didn't beat anybody, if
BYU beats Texas, TCU, UCF, Hawaii, Utah and Oregon State.Sure, the
SOS of BYU's other opponents would probably prevent BYU from finishing high
enough to play in the BCS championship game, but they wouldn't prevent BYU from
qualifying for a BCS bowl.
NightOwlAmerica"Before Cougar fans keep boasting about their
ESPN deal and playing games on NBC against Notre Dame. You might want to take
the time and study the TV deal that Utah will be involved with the next several
years."Who cares what TV deal Utah is "involved"
with? What matters is how much Utah is actually INVOLVED.ABC/ESPN COMPLETELY IGNORING Utah when they announced their scheduled games
for 2011 proves just how little Utah matters to the people who really count -
the bean counters who decide which PAC 12 games they're going to televise.Recruits couldn't care less how much money Utah is getting from
television. All they care about is how often they're going to be playing on
national television.BYU - SEVEN games and counting on ESPN for
2011Utah - one game on ESPN (courtesy of BYU)BYU reality vs
"The last time I looked at the Utes November schedule, I saw games against
UCLA, Washington St and Colorado. I'm not sure those three teams are that far
above NMSU and SJSU.And conveniently U always fail to bring up
Texas, TCU, UCF, Hawaii, Utah and Oregon State."---More awesome logic
from our friend in Frisco, TexasSure...NMSU is the same quality as
UCLA. I doubt anyone else believes that. The UCLA game you said you watched last
year...could it have been UCLA clobbering Texas (34-12)? Later you claim Iowa
State is a deplorable team, perhaps beating up on Texas last year too was enough
to shake your doubts(28-21)?Yet your logic states that this year
Texas is an unbelievably awesome opponent. Why? Because BYU plays them. Last
year's Texas results show otherwise, and against teams you would put up with the
likes of SJSU and NMSU.More of the same spin.This 2011
schedule of BYU's is respectable, particularly since they switched the LA TEch
game for neutral TCU. But it definatley has more than it's fair share of
@Howard S:Wow! The BYU haters are out in force anytime the Des-News
or Tribune publishes such an article on the Cougars! The Big-12 worked out a
sweet deal with FOX-Sports for their 2nd tier rights this past spring as their
commissioner Dan Beebe promised Texas in particular which is why the Longhorns
and their clinging entourage (A&M, Oklahoma etc) stayed put rather than try
to form a Pac-16. The addition of BYU will be a key component for the Big-12 to
get the Pac-12 level of money when first tier rights come up for renegotiation
prior to the 2016 season. Utah represented Larry Scotts last expansion option
since he and EVERY TV network executive knows the Utes play 2nd fiddle to BYU in
the Salt Lake City TV marketwhich is why he went after Texas first. Utah fans
can hope eternally, but they will not reverse 40+ years of BYU leading the Salt
Lake City market for media and fan numbers draw!
"BYUtv is available on DirecTV, the Dish Network and 600 cable
companies".But not Time-Warner. I've asked T-W why not and
they said there isn't enough demand -- here in Orange County, CA!.But BYUtv has been on a campaign of self-degradation. For example:* They started running announcements of other shows (aka commercials) during
their programs instead of only between them.* They are wandering
away from their unique mission and doing it with puzzling choices. I used to
spend much more Sunday time refreshing with the back-to-back spiritual programs
they ran; now they run forgettable films featuring forgotten actors, like the
recent run of Dean Jones films. DEAN JONES?????* The program
schedule on their website used to allow replay of ANY program broadcasted in the
last 30 days. Only some programs can be replayed now.* Viewers not
only could replay all programs from the last 30 days before but had the option
of defining a segment (e.g from 05:30 to 11:27) for which BYUtv's site would
create a unique link that could be saved or emailed to a friend. This was lost
when they "upgraded" their on-line schedule's page.
As long as BYU does not play sports on Sunday. They are going to have a
difficult time being invited to a BCS Conference. Other big fish in the pond
won't put up with that. BYU could get away with it in a smaller conference.
Where is the Sun Belt Conference when you need them!!! Because the Baptist Belt
Big-12 will not take them.
Not all BYU games will be on ESPN anyway. What is not covered will be ported
over to BYU TV. Good luck getting a national audience around that.Before
Cougar fans keep boasting about their ESPN deal and playing games on NBC against
Notre Dame. You might want to take the time and study the TV deal that Utah will
be involved with the next several years. Its big money and several networks.
ESPN/ABC, Fox Sports, Pac-12 Network, & Versus.
For a program that they supposedly left in their dust over a year ago, the
trolls seem obsessed with all things BYU - the dog days of summer are really
bringing out the jealousy and insecurity of the kids on the hill.
Wiley Old School Sorry pal - the epitome of major college football
is a national championship.BYU 1984 is a Lamborghini - #1/#1 Utah 2004, 2008 are Corvettes - #4/#5, #2/#4BYU 1996 is a
Shelby Cobra - #5/#5Only delusional fans of a program that has never
won a national championship would even try to argue that #2 is better than #1.
All this bantering back and forth is fun and all, but the truth of the matter is
that we'll have to see what happens come football season. Utah could do
semi-well in their first season in the Pac-10.2, and the Cougs could struggle in
their first year of Independence. Or nothing could go according to anyone's
predictions. Being a lifelong Cougar fan as well as a graduate
student at the U of U, I hope that both teams do well. But come September 17,
I'm hoping my Cougars squash the Runnin' Reds.
Howard S:Im looking for a phrase to describe the fact that you have
10 comments on a BYU article. The phrase "rehashed ad nauseum" comes
Duckhunter,My chief disagreement with you is not about whether BYU
has a better athletic program "top to bottom" than Utah, or who has
the larger TV audience. It is with how utterly dismissive you are of what Utah
has accomplished.Clearly the addition of Utah, by being the 12th
member, allows a Pac-12 championship game. But saying that is all they bring is
inaccurate.Utah football has improved substantially in the last 20
years. You may not respect what the Utes have accomplished in the last decade,
but the rest of the nation certainly does. Where is the evidence to say that
they aren't "here to stay," or that they can't continue to improve?
And while Ute basketball is weak right now, is there any reason to believe that
it won't get back on its feet?I look forward to seeing what the next
5-10 years bring for both Utah and BYU. I wish them both well, but am wishing
harder for Ute than Cougar success in the seasons to come!
Howard S:You're setting yourself up to eat a super size helping of
crow. You might want to back off spouting about your super bowl utes. September
could hurt real bad - know what I'm talking about??
@Wiley Old SchoolBYU's Program and Brand is a Bentley, and they own
the dealership.Utah's Program is a Cadillac? A
Government Motors Cadillac. That's your ceiling?Not only does Utah
not own the Cadillac dealership, but they merely borrowed the car for a test
drive around the block, Twice.Legacy is not defined by 6 good years,
but it is a Generational thing. With wide and numerous achievements.This seperates the BYU's, from the Vanderbilts, Wazzu's and Utah's.Pretending otherwise is just that, pretending.
RE: hedgehog @ 7:44 a.m.Let me get this straight, the Big XII no
longer wanted Nebraska? They, in effect, kicked them out? Is that revisionist
history or did you really not understand what happened there? The Big XII would
love love love to have Nebraska back. If anything, in the eyes of the other
current 9 schools (minus Texas), Nebraska helped balance things out and their
defection only increased the stranglehold Texas has on the conference.You keep telling yourself that the Big XII will never come calling for BYU.
I'm sure it scares the you-know-what out of you that they will. Fact is, if the
Pac-10 was willing to add Utah and Colorado just to get a Championship Game, the
Big XII would have no problem adding a BYU to get one too, as soon as they
realize that Championship game is really worth getting back to 12 members. It's
certainly in BYU's favor that the Big XII is not run by some snooty,
nose-in-the-air, liberal, agenda-driven, bigoted university presidents.
bigutefan said:"The future calendar posted sure shows a lot of
away games. Not many quality opponents look willing to visit Provo. For the
record, many Sooner fans and administrators from the Oklahoma athletic
department feel that it was a real cheap shot that took out Sam Bradford a few
seasons ago, there is no way Oklahoma will vote for BYU to join the Big 12.
After Texas, the Sooners rule that conference."Of course they
thought it was a cheap shot! They just lost their reigning Heisman Trophy winner
that subsequetnly derailed their whole season! Bias reigns supreme!Not one nationally respected journalist called it a cheapshot. Look at it
again, try to without the crimson glasses, it was a solid, hard, football play
completely within the rules, a hard hit that happens all the time in football.
Unfortunately Bradford got hurt. Not the first football player to be seriously
hurt on a CLEAN football play. Try not to let your own bias cloud
your judgment, bigutefan!
To the Ute fan that compared the Utes to being an 'ESCALADE' in Football,
especially in 2004/2008. Well, I could be mistaken, but 'ESCALADES' were voted
to be one of the most unreliable, most overrated, vehicles in those years. What
do you know! Coincidence?
@ute95Thanks for confirming my hunch that a couple of the cupcake
teams u play are really not that much above some of the cupcake teams we
play.The reality: Colorado and and Washington St will not make or
break the utes season any more than SJSU and NMSU will make or break the Cougs
season. If both teams can't beat the cupcakes on the schedule, whether they're
89 or 115, we really don't need to have the conversation about whether the Y or
the U will have the better season.The success of your season will be
determined by games against USC, Arizona, Arizona St and Pitt. And the success
of our season will be determined by games against TCU, Texas, UCF, and Ole
Miss.But most of all, it will be determined by the game on September
mrj56 wrote:"But what about BYUTV in HD???? I will not be happy until
DirecTV picks up BYUTV in HD. Just can't stand the thought of watching the games
in SD."If you really live in South Jordan, you can get BYUTV in
HD with rabbit ears. The over-the-air signal is a better quality HD anyway since
it's not initially compressed and then decoded. That should tide you over until
it's included with satellite. Not much reason for DirectTV to do it now since I
don't think there's currently a lot of demand for BYUTV content in HD.
Attn: HedgeBig 12 not taking BYU because of baggage? That's how
you describe it "baggage"?What's so wrong about trying to
live what you believe? Keeping the Sabbath Day?Last I thought this
was America, where religious freedoms weren't looked at as
"baggage".Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe
that the Big 12 might show they have some religious tolerance for a solid BYU
atheletic Program with a national following that would absolutely bring monetary
gain to the conference?Baggage..... Nice choice of words....
@utah95Utah's value to the pac10 was that it allowed them to have a
championship game. Period. Colorado's value is that it allowed the pac10 to have
a championship game and it got them into the largest remaining market they were
not already in in the west. utah did get them into a market they weren't in but
utah does not deliver that market as they are a distant number 2 in their
market. Now as I have said before, based on the pac10's criteria
utah and clorado were the two best options for expansion out there. BYU does not
fit into the pac10 despite the fact its athletic program is top to bottom far
superior to utah's and the fact it delivers its market plus millions of more
fans nationwide. utah's value is it was a 12th team. That is it. It
isn't even arguable. BYU's value is it is worth millions all on its own. That is
also inarguable. What is arguable is whether or not the $ value BYU adds is
offset by the baggage it brings such as no Sunday play and a conservative
philosophy in a liberal dominated education system. We'll see eventually I
The haters are really on one today. Can't stand to hear anything positive about
big brother. Still Rollin with the trollin, zealous with the jealous,
unconfessed but still obsessed and transparent as glass with lack of class. Sad
but still sort of comical.
WhatsInItForMe and bluecoug89,You both ask, "Why do so many Ute
fans post on BYU articles?"I read the articles because I am
passionate about college football. And when a poster - pro-Utah or pro-BYU -
says something that isn't consistent with what is widely accepted as fact, like
"UCLA, Washington State, and Colorado aren't that far above New Mexico
State and San Jose State," sorry, I feel compelled to call the author
out.Take Duckhunter's recent posting. He suggests that the only
value of schools like "utah, colorado, kansas state" (notice he can't
even bring himself to capitalize them) is that they give "elect teams"
(like BYU) someone to play.And yet, Utah, a school "that has no
value by itself," has 2 undefeated seasons, and better overall,
head-to-head, and bowl records in the last decade than BYU.I agree
that BYU has "added value to every conference it has been in," at
least in my lifetime; arguing otherwise can't be supported with the evidence.
But saying that Utah adds no value is silly.Duckhunter, Larry Scott
and the Pac-10 invested millions in the Utes and Buffs. Are you suggesting that
you are smarter than them?
Jeff R: "amature Mnt network." Wow, if you're going to
call someone out, use spellcheck won't you? "amature"... I'm still
laughing... good luck with your GED
Bluto,Car analogies might be interesting but yours doesn't make sense at
all.Let's admit that both Utah's and BYU's undefeated season's are
their "Cadillac" seasons that can be a basis for a good car analogy.
And so that we can compare two seasons each, we'll throw in 1996 for BYU. In
that case, the analogy would go as follows:Utah: 2004 Escalade, 2008
Escalade, 2011-12 models being sold at Larry Scott's shiny new dealership
BYU: 1984 Cimarron, 1996 Fleetwood with one dent in the rear passenger
side, available at Tom's Independent Used Car EmporiumEven if you
combine the total value of all of the high-mileage 1980-era Toyota Camry's on
Tom's lot, they don't compare to the value of even one vehicle in Larry's
Howard S.BYU has the biggest name in sports, ESPN, broadcasting 8 of
their games this year, so far, while Utah is only on 1 time, riding BYU's
coat-tails to do so.The Notre Dame series is the only 2 for 1 series
BYU has. All others are Home and Home. Even the latest Texas series
is a Home and Home. The first game was a one and done and set up before BYU's
Independence, a completely seperate contract.When this Notre Dame
contract is up, ND (The most storied Team in College Football History) will have
come to Provo 4 times.Let's see Notre Dame or Texas play in RES?
And understand that every one of your Pac 10 mates, have already
played in Provo with home and homes with more series coming.BYU's
already hosted the likes of a #1 Miami, Penn State, Texas etc. Because even 25
years ago, BYU was a well enough of an established National Brand to have home
and homes with these storied programs.Utah is a nice Regional
Commuter School. Void of a College Town Atmosphere. Now they've joined the Pac
as the "New Washington Generals" based in the "New Laramie.
BYU'sNational Championship (Consensus)23 Conference
Championships Heisman TrophyDoak WalkerOutlands (2)Davey
O'Briens (4)Sammy Baugh's (7)60 All-Americans 15
"Consensus" All-Americans7 College Hall of FamersLegendary
Coach23 Top 25 finishes NFL MVP's (2)Super Bowl MVPSuper
Bowl winning QB's (2)Their own TV Network8 ESPN games this yearvs.Utah's 2 BCS Bowl games (Which 10 teams play in every
year)This is why ESPN views BYU as the Only Legacy School with a
National Brand in UtahThat '73 Gremlin you are trying to pawn off as
a Jaguar XKE? Nobody is buying, especially the Executives at ESPN!
@howieYou see howie most schools, utah is one of them, have no value
on their own. An elect few schools, BYU is one of them, has value all on their
own. Therefor they ADD value to any conference they are in. They don't subtract,
or at best simply do nothing like utah does. The majority of the schools in a
conference are just like utah, they add nothing really on their own, but as a
block, and paired up with a school that is actually of value by itself, they can
make a viable entity of worth. They schools that actually are of value need to
play someone and since there are only a very few schools that have value on
their own they get schools like utah, colorado, kansas st., etc. to give them
opponents to play.That is the value of a school like utah, they are
something for an actual valuable school to play. You see that is why they are
going to have their one single ESPN game this year, because they are someone for
BYU to play and getting BYU on tv is what ESPN desires because they actually
At least Utah and Byu fans can agree that it will be alot more fun to watch the
rivalry on ESPN HD than the amature Mnt network. I hope that Byu's offense will
continue where it left off last year and that their defense will continue to
beomce dominant again. I think Utah is going to have a rough year but should
pull it together by the end off the season. I would like to see both Utah and
Byu run the table this. Byu in the Sugar Bowl, Utah in the Rose...Who's with me?
This whole thread amounts to nothing more than a good old fashions junior high
shower room comparison contest. Time to move on. BYU and Utah have taken
different paths that fit well to their respective team. There is no reason any
more to hate the other team.Bashing on the other teams schedule or
tv lineup is pointless. It really matters when the guys you cheer for get on
the field and play that particular day. The rivalry only matters on Sept 17.
Other than that, it is time to cheer both teams. A meaningless hate will make
Ute football articles must be running dry because there are more Ute fans
posting than there are BYU fans. What's wrong guys, nothing to read? Nothing to
look forward to? Last time I saw a Ute football article was, well, never
because I like reading things that are worth my time.
I'm amazed at how many Ute trolls are posting on this BYU article.That level of jealousy is astounding!Well, maybe not. Kind of a
little brother thing.
Hold on there. Every Utah game is on television. I will be able to watch every
game. We don't know exactly how many games will be played nationally as of now
as the full television schedule has not been announced but all PAC 12 games will
be seen regionally. People act like if you aren't on espn you won't be seen at
all. That is not true and if you have satellite, you can still pick up regional
games from almost anywhere.
We will have the best schedule in America pretty much every year and who wants
to loose to Oregan and Cal too?
Unless Texas leaves the BIG12 I see no shot of bYu joining the league. If NEB
didn't bring enough to the table....then bYu must be a joke. Do you really see
TX and other big12 teams wanting a team with so much baggage? TX will not
(repeat) will not accomidate the "no Sunday rule".Never
"Holmoe should get some tips from Notre Dame schedulers, if he hasn't
already. Recommend"morpunk,I suspect ND would
give this advice: Unless your ND, be prepared to play Idaho st(s) in oct/NOV
CougFaninTX,You said, "I'm not sure those three teams (ie.
UCLA, Washington St and Colorado) are that far above NMSU and SJSU." YOU
may not be sure of that, but anyone who is objective certainly is!According to Sagarin's computer ratings, this is how those teams have AVERAGED
over the last 5 seasons:UCLA: 52Colorado: 76WSU:
89SJSU: 115NMSU: 151 UCLA finished all five seasons
with a higher ranking than SJSU and NMSU - 10 out of 10 times.WSU
finished more highly ranked than the 2 WAC teams 9 times out of 10.Colorado also finished more highly ranked than SJSU and NMSU 9 times out of
10.Each team's HIGHEST RANKING in the last five years was:UCLA: 33WSU: 37Colorado: 56SJSU: 61NMSU: 129I know it's tiresome rebutting "the trolls," but don't resort
to posting stuff that isn't even close to being accurate out of frustration.Good luck, Cougars - except on 17 September, of course!
The future calendar posted sure shows a lot of away games. Not many quality
opponents look willing to visit Provo. For the record, many Sooner fans and
administrators from the Oklahoma athletic department feel that it was a real
cheap shot that took out Sam Bradford a few seasons ago, there is no way
Oklahoma will vote for BYU to join the Big 12. After Texas, the Sooners rule
Some one posted on here that BYU would be in the "Big 12"???! Beg to
differ, not a chance!WAC play will be a cake walk, over and over
again!!! Enjoy your ESPN run too!
@The Deuce "The MWC had some real potential starting this year and BYU ran
for greener pastures. Where is this program going?"Didn't you
just answer that question? BYU's moving "on to greener pastures".
Nobody watched the MWC, why? Because they couldn't. BYU's move to independence
has placed them in a great position to get exposure, play top quality programs
from around the country, and earn a little bit more money as an added bonus.
Who cares if they have 3-4 cupcakes on their schedule? Most good
teams do (as an example, Florida plays UAB, Florida Atlantic, and Furman this
year). I'm excited for what the future holds because it's way better than being
in the MWC was.@BleedCrimsonUtah+ESPN&FOX=1 game on
ESPN this year, 1 game on FSNColorado+ESPN&Fox=2 games on ESPN, 2
games on FSNBYU+ESPN=7 games on ESPNBYU>Colorado>UtahWho knows, maybe after the new TV deal kicks in you'll have more air
time than Colorado? After all, the U has won 2 BCS bowls in the last 10 years,
right? That makes them relevant, right? We can always hope... :)Go
Howard S. "Next year BYU will play 8 non-BCS teams. Utah on the
other hand will play 2 non-BCS teams, one of those being BYU."All BCS teams are not created equal my friend. Your wins against Iowa State,
Louisville (2X) and Michigan the past couple of years are not that impressive.
Your big loss to Boise State (a non-BCS team) should have made that lesson
clear.TCU, UCF and Hawaii will all be ranked higher than UCLA,
Washington, Washington State and Colorado this year. It's the quality of the
players and coachers, not the conference they're in, that makes a team great.But the only game the really matters in the rivalry is on September 17.
Remember, BYU has won 3 out of the last 5, soon to be 4 out of 6.
CougFaninTXThe last time I looked at the Utes November schedule, I saw
games against UCLA, Washington St and Colorado. I'm not sure those three teams
are that far above NMSU and SJSU.-----------Nice try,
but those PAC-12 teams are way better. I'm not sure you did any research before
making such a claim...2011 Final Rankings (Source: USA Today)45 BYU 62 UCLA 68 Colorado 79 Washington State
...161 San Jose State 172 New Mexico StateNOTE:
BYU is closer to UCLA than SJSU.
To Howard S., BYU's biggest fan. I think you have posted more here than any
other article ever. Is it a slow month for football or what?
Holmoe should get some tips from Notre Dame schedulers, if he hasn't already.
@BluCoug"How is this "ANY" different from what utah
did in 2004, 2008?"***************The difference, BluCoug
my friend, is that Utah was undefeated in both 2004 and 2008, a feat that BYU
has only accomplished once in their history and that was a generation ago.
@ Cougar_Independence"byu + espn > utah"Utah + espn & fox + $21-31 million + Rose Bowl > byu
"Next year BYU will play 8 non-BCS teams"Seriously Howard?
How is this "ANY" different from what utah did in 2004, 2008?What's the conclusion: ute fans have short term memories, or selective
memories, not a fan until 2009 or not born yet?So what is it
Howard?or you "Still have not found what your looking
DuckhunterBYU's value?Even the most generous estimates
place BYU's value under the ESPN contract at about $10 million.$10
million of value split among 11 other BIG 12 teams means nothing, especially to
Texas. Make no mistake, nothing happens in the Big 12 without Texas
approval and Texas has no reason to accommodate BYU and their Sunday play
This independent thing still has too many holes in it for me. The ESPN deal is a
minimum of 3 games, if they are winning they may see more games. Did you take a
look at the schedule for 2011 - San Jose State, Idaho State, Univ. of Idaho and
New Mexico State? Not exactly the type of schedule that is going to get you
noticed for a national ranking. And this is all dependent on winning the first
part of the schedule. Yes, the ESPN money looks good up front but it is all
dependent on winning the big games first. The schedule for 2012 still has New
Mexico State and San Jose State games listed. This ship right now is what the
Navy calls "Drifting". This means that it is coasting based upon
previous momentum but is not under power. The next step is "Adrift"
when you are being tossed about by the current, wind and tide. The MWC had some
real potential starting this year and BYU ran for greener pastures. Where is
this program going?
Howard:FYI I have lived in Seattle for 5 years and for me it was
Seattle U err whatever until Utah somehow managed to lose to them in Basketball.
That's when I first became aware that Seattle U had a team. The lead story on
the sports segment of the news that night was that "Seattle U (errr
whatever as you so eloquently put it) ...beat a MWC team: Utah."I didn't claim that Utah didn't have a home and home with teams in their own
conference.Whether it's home and home, home and away, Utah won't be
playing Stanford, Cal and Oregon every October or November because they are in
different divisions. If you spent as much time following Utah football as you do
BYU football that might be something you would know.
Counter Intelligence"...ad nauseum troll posts."***********Don't feed the troll, my friend.It only
@old navyYou are just spouting things with no knowledge and little
thought.At some point the big12 will expand so that they can have a
championship game. That is the only reason utah is now in the pac10. They
brought no value to the conference other than giving them a 12th team and
allowing them to have a championship game. Now whether or not the
big12 will invite BYU, or whether BYU would even accept the invitation, is
something none of us know. It is obvious BYU would be one of the prime
candidates for them, although not the only one. As far as Texas being worried
about sharing revenue is concerned, well BYU's exclusive contract with ESPN
pretty much puts that false concern to rest. BYU adds value to anything they are
in. BYU would actually help increase the value of any future big12 media deal
not diminish it or, like utah, simply add nothing to it. What
excellent 'points' you made.LOL!
Our schedule against WAC teams is better than playing a PAC-12 schedule. Can't
wait for a Saturday afternoon in Provo watching us play NMSU, Idaho or San Jose
State while those Utes have to play PAC 12 teams. I'm no marketing guy, but
that will be an easy sell.
@bballjunkie"...before you talk about anothers team your better
look at the so called D-1 scheduel your team is putting together this year and
next."**************bballjunkie my friend, you may be
well advised to stick to bball.Next year BYU will play 8 non-BCS
teamsUtah on the other hand will play 2 non-BCS teams, one of those
being BYU.I think Utah has a pretty respectable D1 schedule... BYU's
schedule... well... not so much.
"...The bottom line is you have to win games...". (Tom Holmoe)Automatic wins, at home, in front of 65,000 fans, against the likes of
San Jose State, Idaho State, Idaho and New Mexico State, should leave the
Cougars in search of only two more wins to become bowl eligible as long as a win
against Idaho State counts towards that 6 win magic number. If not,
the Cougars only have to beat 3 more teams to become bowl eligible.Wins at home against UTAH, UCF and Utah State could seal the deal making the
Cougars bowl eligible.The Cougars could lose against Ole Miss.,
Texas, Oregon State, TCU, and Hawaii, on the road, and still become bowl
eligible.Thanks to the WAC, the Cougars should be playing in the
Armed Forces Bowl in 2011.Amazing!
CougFaninTX Rumored opponents?Yeah... I'd be counting on
those rumored opponents to vault BYU in the stratosphere of BCS competition.
@Howard:You are right you win! Utah has to play that power house
Montana State opening game 2011.Howard before you talk about
anothers team your better look at the so called D-1 scheduel your team is
putting together this year and next. Now with that said go a head
and make the excuses because we all know ute fan has plenty of them to justify
their teams actions, to make everything look right.
@SeattleUhasabballteam?Try to keep up
Seattle..uhh...err...whatever.I said home and home series. That
doesn't mean starting next year or even on consecutive years.I means
for every game played at their stadium there is a return game at RES.That is different than 4 games at South Bend, for example, in return for 2
games at LES, for example.
*and while Utah will be playing Cal this year they won't be playing Cal every
@Howard S. "Being on TV doesn't win the games, my friend..." True, but it sure beats the alternative of not being on TV. Obviously,
BYU will still need to win in order to maximize its independence route, just
like Utah needs to win to really be considered relevant in the PAC 12. The wonderful thing for BYU is that they have the opportunity to win in
front of a national audience, while Utah is stuck in obscurity. I wonder how
many people this year will actually realize that Utah has joined the PAC 12 when
they play on TV all of 3 times this year, two of those being on regional TV and
the only game on ESPN coming courtesy of BYU? You do realize that
even Colorado has more games on TV this year than the "mighty" U?How ironic.Like I've said before, the Utes finally get
invited to the "big boys" table and find themselves stuck in the high
chair. But hey, you've still got those two BCS wins to fall back on, right?
@Howard S."Oh and I'm sure Cougar fans are looking forward to those
hotly contested home and away series' in October and November with New Mexico
State and San Jose State. You know October and November... when Utah will be
playing California, Oregon, Stanford... you know real D1 teams."What's been debated ad nauseum is the schedule that U keep bringing up. The
last time I looked at the Utes November schedule, I saw games against UCLA,
Washington St and Colorado. I'm not sure those three teams are that far above
NMSU and SJSU.And conveniently U always fail to bring up Texas, TCU,
UCF, Hawaii, Utah and Oregon State. I concede, we have a few cupcakes on the
schedule as do U, but overall I believe BYU's schedule is comparable to Utes
this year. And I think we'll end up playing more ranked teams than U will in
2011.Looking at future years and rumored opponents, BYU's schedule
will outclass the Utes schedule every future year. Have you seen who's already
confirmed for 2012?
Howard S:Guess what dude? Utah DOESN'T PLAY Stanford OR Oregon this
year. California is in the North Division with Oregon and Stanford and while
Utah will be playing call every year either. And BYU won't be
playing NMSU, SJSU et al every year either.You are so preoccupied
with hating BYU, you don't even know your the schedule of your own team.
I totally agree with mrj56. We are back in the age before the MTN. How long
will it be before BYUtv is on Directtv in hd. I heard a rumor and I present it
as a rumor that Comcast now owns the rights to BYUtv's signal and that is why
Directtv and dish have not pick up the HD signal.It does no good to
be able to broadcast in SD; without having national broadcast in HD.There is nothing uglier than watching sports; any sports on an HD set in
SD..This is an absolute mess. Some one needs to wake and get this
fixed now. I sure hope we have not sold our soul to the Comcast Devil. It will
be three years or more before we see BYU sports in Hd on any satellite service.
Cougar_Independence1984?If BYU had done something
noteworthy in this generation they might not be left to pick up the scraps that
the MWC and the WAC offer them in October and November... you know, when big
time college football is played.
It is sad but true defining moment, as an independent only the $ will bring in
the big games. BYU will need to stay at a minimum of 8 wins and 4 losses to keep
the $'s flowing. If by some slim chance they actually make it to a BCS game in
the next 3 years, they will make it big. If not, the football program will
become a long struggle for acceptance, but one they can still make work. As
much as I hope the Big 12 calls, I will not be holding my breath. It is really
hard for the Baptist dominated culture to accept the LDS culture in anything,
whether it be politics or sports. We had a better chance of a BCS bowl being a
Football only in the Big East. It looks like the 2012 schedule will be the most
difficult to put together. They will most likely have to add an "Eastern
Washington" type to the schedule to get 5 home games. Its ok, thats what
all the big boys do anyway.
I hope BYU does not ever get back to a conference, including the Big 12. Next
year's schedule is entertaining and the first-year schedule is supposedly the
hardest to fill. Keep Wisconsin, Ohio State, Nebraska, Navy, etc. on the radar
and other teams sprinkled around the nation year after year. That will be better
than seeing the same teams over and over.
@Howard SBYU's national championship > Utah's 2 bcs bowl
appearances1984 > 2004 and 2008You are welcome to
come sit at the adult table after you earn the title of "National
Champion".Until then, it's ok little brother up north. You can
always look up to BYU.Go Cougars!
But what about BYUTV in HD???? I will not be happy until DirecTV picks up BYUTV
in HD. Just can't stand the thought of watching the games in SD.
BYU has one thing that Utah doesn't have and that is marketability. BYU can go
independent and get Notre to play in Provo. ESPN realizes the marketability of
BYU which is the reason so many games will be on TV. Utah has to have a
conference to survive. ESPN also has the all powerful dollar and Blaine Fowler
a BYU alum and a Mtn. footbal analyst pointed out that if ESPN wants a BYU team
in a BCS bowl as an independent the BCS will listen. Utah has the PAC 12 to get
them to the BCS and BYU has ESPN.
I'm looking forward to playing in the Independant league. I hope we finish
Cougar_IndependenceBeing on TV doesn't win the games, my friend...
Of course unless BYU is completing in some parallel dimension where victory is
achieve by TV access and not points scored.As for Notre Dame as long
as Utah has perpetual home and home series with Oregon, USC, Cal, Stanford, they
really don't need two 2-for-1 series with Notre Dame.And as for
Washington State, they have played in the Rose Bowl this decade... now remind me
when was the last time BYU played in the Rose Bowl, or even a BCS game... Oh, I
If the Big 12 was going to come calling, it would have happened when Nebraska
and Colorado made their move. And clearly that didn't happen. BYU
fans are getting way ahead of themselves. Do they really believe that the Univ
of Texas is willing to reduce or share their piece of the Big 12 financial pie?
@ Howard SInteresting thing is Utah gets to go to USC this year, and
the game is on what channel? Versus. BYU goes to Ole Miss and
Texas, and both games are on espn networks. BYU gets to play Notre
Dame 6 times, and Utah will never get Notre Dame to come to SLC. BYU will
travel to Notre Dame 4 of the 6 times, yes, but all 4 of those games will be on
NBC, which beats playing USC on Versus every year! byu + espn is a
winning combination. utah + washington state = 11th and 12th place
in the pac 12. Go Cougars!
BYU/RSL Fan"AND GETTING HUMILIATED BY California, Oregon,
etc"***********I suppose this implies that the Collective
would rather beat San Jose State and New Mexico State in October and November
than be challenged by real D1 teams.Those are games that will
certainly vault BYU to that elusive BCS game.As for me and my team,
I choose to be challenged... But I understand that testing yourself against the
best isn't for everybody... That's why a lot of recruits still choose BYU.
byu + espn > utahGo Cougars!
"You know October and November... when Utah will be playing California,
Oregon, Stanford... you know real D1 teams."You forgot to add
"when Utah will be playing AND GETTING HUMILIATED BY California, Oregon,
etc."It will start this year after Utah gets humiliated by BYU.
Every dies hard Ute fan/BYU haters fear is the Cougars being invited by the
Big-12. Such people will hide behind the Sunday Play issue, but everyone knows
that isn't realistic.
Gotta give Holmoe credit for putting together the schedule he has so far.
Hopefully the last couple of teams from the 2012 schedule will include teams
from the Pac-12, Big 12, or even Big-10. Why not get Army and Navy involved
since, presumably, they face similar circumstances? Perhaps travel from the east
coast?Of course, Utah and Utah State should be an annual given,
though starting in 2013, the Ute game has not been determined. I know their are
plenty of fans from both sides who'd like to see the rivalry cool. I am not one.
The past 18 years have given us some of the best games in any rivalry, anywhere.
Why would I want that to stop just because of some, minority, fringe fans. Come
on Holmoe and Hill. Make it happen.Good luck, Cougars.
Is there one single statement in this article that hasn't been hashed and
rehashed ad nauseum?Oh and I'm sure Cougar fans are looking forward
to those hotly contested home and away series' in October and November with New
Mexico State and San Jose State.You know October and November...
when Utah will be playing California, Oregon, Stanford... you know real D1
As Brad Rock pointed out not quite a month ago, a conference will come calling
for BYU sooner than later, and I and many others suspect a possible Big-12
invitation is likely the reason we have yet to see many firm 2013 dates with the
Texas game becoming a conference game. The biggest obstacle BYU has run into
with scheduling as an independent is BCS league policies that make OOC games
virtually prohibitive after the first weekend of October, hence the reasons he
mentions finding ways to continue MWC and WAC rivalries. This will not bode
well for independence since it will make it more difficult for BYU to recruit
and attract the best LDS student athletes and those non-LDS that are willing to
live by the rules BYU has. For BYU it is either move up or move out of big time
college athletics. Independence Forever kool-aid drinkers better be aware that
this is the reality for BYU, and they should not be expected to continue to use
their BYU brand to prop-up financially mediocre and fan unsupported programs at
places like Utah State. Provo could become Rexburg in such a scenario.
Go BYU! I can't wait to be able to watch all the games. BYU's schedule will
only get better.