First, Ty benched Bell and started CJ. Then he gradually started playing the
rookies more. Finally at the end, he played around with starting Al, Favors,
Millsap, CJ and Harris and started playing Hayward more minutes and relying on
him more. Hayward stepped into the roll flawlessly. He earned the respect of his
team and gained confidence by besting his season high 3 different times in the
last 5 games. Also, Ty figured out that Big Al at C and Millsap at PF does not
work defensively but any combination with Favors at the PF or C seemed to work.
If the Jazz can build on how they finished the season and add some nice talent
without blowing up the team, they could be a championship contender very soon.
Add some outside shooting with someone like Jimmer to space the floor and a
solid defensive player like Singleton (who is better offensively than people
give him credit for) could be just what the Jazz need. If the Jazz have to trade
down so they can justify doing it, they could trade with Washington for their
6th and 18th. This would also give them another pick to land more depth.
@uteologySounds to me like you didn't catch many of the games at the
end of the season. I did and I believe you are dead wrong about how well Sloan
would have done. Injuries, the lack of outside shooting, and the ability to
defend the pick and roll or the 3pt shot killed the Jazz. Sloan's last month
with the Jazz was terrible. The Jazz lost like 12 out of 16 games before Sloan
retired. They lost to loosing teams and they lost at home. Teams figured out
that they could pack it in on the Jazz and it worked. They also figured out Al
Jefferson's weakness in the pick and roll. Those two events lead to the Jazz
demise. When Ty took over, the team struggled to find its way and then the
injuries came. It wasn't till near the end of the season that he really started
playing with lineups and started figure some things out that worked.
The Jazz just may get Irving.Minnesota just signed Rubio.Cleveland could go with Williams, the Wolves pick Kanter, the Jazz get
Irving.Or a Minnesota trade could throw the whole draft up in the
air.In 2005 the Jazz got Dwill with the 3rd, New Orleans got c3po
with the 4th pick. Bynum was 10th, Grainger 17th, David Lee 30th. Too bad this
isn't that draft. Or maybe it is. Is Kanter Bynum without the bad wheels?
I was high on Singleton but after further review he is one dimensional, zero
Bugoff: I haven't been to happy about the idea of Knight being the pick from the
brginning. I've tried to have people tell me why they think he is so good or why
he is better than Jimmmer but no response or the response I get is he's young,
long, has potential. At the point guard position being long might help but it's
not as important. Stockton wasn't the most athletic, long, physically gifted
player, he just knew how to play and played hard and smart. I think Knight
is lot like Harris with a better jumpshot, but even that is inconsistent.
I am really backing off of Knight at 3 since I saw his position adjusted win
score. He could develop but his score is 1/2 of Irving's and much lower than
Kemba and Jimmer. Further, last year and during the first 1/2 of
this year Jimmer was almost as good as Irving. Jimmer's score went down when he
lost Collingsworth/Davies. He had to shoot a lot more than normal. Of the PGs available to the Jazz at 12 Jimmer is as good as they are going to
do. I think Valanciunas is going to be the best big in the long run.
However, Kanter is more NBA ready right now. Kanter has the potential to be very
similar to Love. Valanciunas will add 20 lbs in the next couple of years to 265.
Kanter/Valanciunas are probably the best bigs the Jazz will get a
chance at this year or next. I think the Jazz should go big at 3 and fix the
wings via trade. Or resign AK, play Hayward at SG and back up with CJ.Trade Harris/Bell. Watson/Jimmer can PG unless the Jazz can get someone
Another player I'd consider at 12 is Montejunas, he's very talented, with alot
Winglish: I would love BB at 12, if the Jazz take Knight at 3, we need a big
that can control the paint and rebound, BB would do that. BB would also get you
10 to 12 pts a night just on hustle plays, dunks etc. Boguts injury hx is
too worrisome for me, I'd rather take Jonas or Kanter.Even though I would
prefer a big at 3, I do like Knight better than Harris, at least Knight has a
good jumper and better from outside. Potential is so hard to project, Knight
could be real good or just so so. Same with the bigs but even having the chance
to draft a good big doesn't come along very often.
I agree that the Jazz desperately need a PG who can both shoot the three and
distribute the basketball. Opponents can sag off of Devin Harris because he's
not a real three point threat. I also agree that the Jazz will really need
a wing player if they don't sign AK to a new contract. I further agree
that the Jazz need a shot blocking, rebounding center, but not a stiff without
skills like Fes or Biyombo. Andrew Bogut would be absolutely perfect on the
Jazz if he could stay healthy.
Kanter - Jimmer make it happen
@ Uteology 1:23pm,If you think statistics can't be used to mislead,
you're quite naive. ANY stat professor knows that. Politicians know it. Vegas
bookies know it.And, it wasn't luck that beat the Lakers. Did you
even watch the game? Great team defense did it, with a little individual effort
by Hayward. Hayward got a lot of team help in his defense against Kobe, although
some times his own effort did the job. But, it was the team work against the
Lakers' bigs that had a lot to do with winning that game. The Jazz offense was
mediocre, except for Hayward.Corbin showed, for those who bothered
to watch the end of the season for the Jazz (and you apparently didn't), that
team defense is in their future. It won games that they shouldn't have won.
Corbin started to figure things out near the end. He'll do just fine next year,
regardless of overall talent.The only reason I have Jimmermania is
because I paid attention to his college career enough to know what he's capable
of. Teams that evaluated him all came away with higher opinions of his NBA
worth. He hasn't disappointed me yet.
@ Bugoff 1:12pm,I was with you all the way until your last
paragraph.I believe the Jazz are worse off at PG and SF than at C,
PF, or SG.Depending on whether they intend to hold on to Harris for
awhile, the Jazz need two more PGs that are at least as good as the
Watson/Harris duo; one as a productive backup, and one as a future starter.It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if they drafted both Knight and
Jimmer. That's because I'm not so sure a Kanter/Williams/Jonas pick would do
that much for the team as two hustling PGs, battling each other for the starting
job.If Williams isn't a very good SF, he shouldn't be drafted by the
Jazz. Kanter, maybe, because the Jazz don't have a good, natural center.I'd be surprised if the Jazz don't get some sort of trade done to
improve this year's draft results for them.Ideally, they'd get
Kanter, Knight, and Jimmer.
The Jazz do need a big guy that has more talen than that of Fes, don't get me
wrong I like Fes, but we need a big man that is over 7' that can shoot around
the basket. I think the Jazz need a shot blocker, a defensive minded player. We
have some offense in our players, but none of which play defense. Millsap
used to play defense until he got his fat contract. Favors is still raw.
Jefferson plays a little more defense than Boozer did.Biyombo reminds me
of a shorter version of Shaq. No offense out side the key, however can finish
very strong around the basket. He's long and can play D. You can teach someone
how to shoot, but you can't teach defensive instinct or length.
'"he had a game of one on none...and he lost" if that gives you an
idea of his offensive ability. He literally hit like 2 of 20 mid range jumpers.
This guy is junior jazz level on the offensive end. A defensive freak of nature
for sure but a total offensive zilch.'-Jazz SourceThat's Ben Wallace
you're talking about right? Oh Biyombo. I'm not saying he is my top Choice, but
if a guy has an elite NBA skill, such as D, that is not a bad choice for a #12
in a weak draft. 3 potential guys that keep being mentioned at #12 all have
weaknesses but also have an elite NBA skill. Fredette-Shooting,
Singleton-Defense, Biyombo-Defense/Rebounding. I'm fine with any of them because
the Jazz lack in all of those areas.There seems to be alot of people
who don't want a defensive 3 because of a bad comparison to AK. The negatives to
AK were that he was overpaid (not his fault) and his injuries. Look back to
whenever the Jazz were at their best over the last ten years, AK was healthy and
impacted the team on both sides.
If the choice is between Kanter & Valanciunas, it's no choice at all--Kanter
is available to play right now and has an NBA body for a big. He could very
easily be Koufos 2.0 tho; imagine if Kosta had stayed in school four years, he'd
prolly be the #1 pick Thursday!Valan's buyout terms have been
carefully hidden by his agent, and while indeed he may have the most upside in
the draft, most observers think he's several years away at least physically,
whatever his contract situ in Europe. Valan, Vesely, Donatas, way too many
unknowns to take at 3 for a rebuilding club with an impatient fan base imo.Agreed if it's btwn Singleton & Biyambo at 12 go with BB due to the
sick physical tools, who cares if he's 24? The offense needs to run through
Favors, Hayward, AJ & Sap. AK's replacement will be lucky to get 3 shots a
game aside from putbacks, breakaways, buzzerbeaters & alleyoops.
Singleton can't be a worse defender than AJ, frailer & more expensive than
AK, or a worse shooter than CJ. That said, as mentioned above, his ceiling
prolly isn't much higher than Evans if it all, so let's develop Jeremy.Who on Earth started this Jazz trade for Bogut nonsense?
If the Jazz get wings who can shoot and defend and have a PG who can shoot and
will distribute, then Millsap's numbers next year shoot up to 18-20 points with
9-10 rebounds. Millsap will extend his range and improve his
shooting. If the paint is unpacked his rebound numbers go up. I
would hold onto Millsap. He is a great 3rd big. If the perimeter D improves so
does Millsaps defense. The Jazz are also listening to offers on AJ.
KOC is very flexible. If Kanter/Valanciunas are drafted they will
take a year or 3 to develop into a starter. Millsap/AJ can be traded then.Harris should adjust and be a better distributor next year. Over several
years he has not been a good efficient shooter. I think it is wise to get a
different PG. The Jazz have time to get the right PG. However,
reducing salary is an issue. Kanter can do what Okur does and
probably a lot better. He can also plug the middle about as well as Fes and may
rebound better. Valanciunas should be as good as Bogut in the long run. Lots of good options.
@WhatsInItForMeStatistics lie? Wow, my statistics professor would
be shocked.True the Jazz did get lucky and beat the Lakers in LA
86-85, but they also lost 8 straight before that including @ESA Washington
(23-59, 3-38 on the road) and @Sacramento (24-58), in both games allowing 100+
points.Hey, I get it you have Jimmer Mania but lets not get carried
away with ignoring facts.Defense wins championships, so if Jazz want
to be a contender then they need to get better on defense. Salon
wasnt the problem; it was lack of talent on the court. Junior Jazz in Chicago
won, TimberNets in Utah did not. Corbin went 8-32, Salon would have gone 20-20.
BPA has a very serious over looked consequences. If you draft BPA you have to
trade a lesser logged jammed player. It can be very hard to get good
value under those circumstances. BPA has some high transaction costs that
everyone ignores. It also messes with your chemistry. Further, there
is only one Jordan so that one example is not a general rule. Beside the Rockets
took Akeem ahead of Jordan and did okay. You need a combo of BPA
and need. Besides you can't ignore the financial side. Some picks are primarily
financial decisions to replace old expensive Vets. I like Jimmer I
think he is a good player and has a lot of potential for the Jazz. However, it
will not be the end of the world if he goes elsewhere. The key to
the Jazz success is to get enough of the picks right in the next 2 years to fix
the shooting, rebounding and defense problems. Jimmer can be part of that but he
is not a magic player who will fix it all. The Jazz need an upgrade in bigs
just as bad as they do at the wings and PG.
@Vince Harris shoots poorly, penetrates well and does not distribute well. He
is a good player but fits another offense well. He does not open up the inside
he helps to clog it up on offense. He is a decent defender. He is like Brewer
only a PG. In my opinion he does not make the other players better at least on
the Jazz. Jimmer will need time to develop into an NBA PG. He does
open up the floor, has great range, can pass decently and will pass a lot more.
His defense is adequate. His rim game is suspect. I have
consistently said the Jazz should trade Harris and let Watson run the team and
develop a young PG behind him. Tank the lockout year and get an extra lotto
pick. Trade Harris and Millsap for picks in next years strong draft. 7 lotto picks = a great team. Favors, 3 & 12, 2 next year and 2 from
Harris/Millsap. There could be some trades instead of lotto picks. I
have NEVER said Jimmer is better than Harris right now. Jimmer will
do okay where ever he goes. Jimmer haters need to get a grip.
Would the Jazz take Singleton?Simple answer is: if he is the best
player available. You don't draft for need. Ask The team that drafted Sam
Bowie instead of Michael Jordan.If Singleton is the best all around
talent then maybe but you don't draft him because he can play defense. Good
grief, just trade something and get a 2nd round pick and take Biyombo who stock
is falling because he is 100% defense.The said "he had a game
of one on none...and he lost" if that gives you an idea of his offensive
ability. He literally hit like 2 of 20 mid range jumpers. This guy is junior
jazz level on the offensive end. A defensive freak of nature for sure but a
total offensive zilch. Ronnie showed us what happens when your man
does not have to guard you. Been there done that. Next. Bottom
line, defensive hustlers trying to get into the league through defensive
intagibles should not be getting drafted at 12. At 12 you better be drafting
someone who is a potential starter 3 years from now. That could be a challenge
with the talent in this draft. Thats not O'Conners fault.
Are you actually suggesting someone on the Jazz team might actually play
@ Uteology 10:50am,Stats can lie, and yours did.Jazz
finished the season playing great TEAM defense, which helped them to beat the
Lakers in LA, something D-Will had a hard time doing. The rest of the season's
stats are meaningless, as they retired along with Sloan.ALL YEAR,
including near the end of it with Corbin coaching, the Jazz still lacked very
much an outside threat. They had a little with Hayward's coming of age, but
that's only consistent one. They need another.I'll stick with
needing an outside offensive threat more than an individual defender.@ Bugoff 11:42am,Jimmer won't have any problem running a team. If
you watched ALL of his college games carefully, you could see that he'll do just
fine when he has teammates who can produce, and the Jazz have enough of them. He
knows how to pass in traffic, and will be very willing to assist over score.Jimmer knows he can score, so it'll be like an extra dollar in his back
pocket while he's trying to get his teammates going.Jimmer was more
of an assister than scorer his Junior year because he had options.
Bugoff are you nuts? Rating this Jimmer guy ahead of Harris now is ridiculous!
You "wonderful ones" from the Y are drunk with fantasy. Wake up and
take a drink of reality please.
IF knight is going to be as good as DWill then you take Knight and say thank
you. If he is not you take Valancuinas or Kanter. It would not hurt
to leave Valanciunas in Europe during a lockout year. He is going to be 260+ and
7 ft same as Bogut. He should be better offensively. Kanter is a
cross between Fes and Okur (only much better). He is athletic and should be able
to defend and plug the middle. He can shoot the 3 pretty much at will and also
has good inside moves. He did indicate he took pain shots before the Nike Summit
game for his back. That is a concern. The big question on Jimmer is
not his D. It is his ability to run a team as a PG. He has experience running
BYU. The big question is how good will he be as an NBA PG? I think he is worth
developing. He will always be an off the bench shooter (floor) but he could
become a great PG. I think he fits better than Harris and can play
this year behind Watson.KOC has lots of very good options.
I'd like to see the Jazz go with Knight/Walker at the #3 pick - Long term
solution at PG, and with the #12 pick I'd love to see them go with a guy like
Singleton...If we wanted a lineup that is "Long" we could go
with 1.Harris 2.Howard 3.Singleton 4.Favors 5.Jefferson. or 1.Harris 2.Singleton
3.Milsap 4.Favors 5.Jefferson.
Jazz don't need a big and a pg. They just need to take the best players
availiable. If it is 2 pgs or 2 centers or 2 pfs, it doesn't matter because if
you get somebody that another team wants then you can shop them.
Dude has a Bill Cartwright head.
WhatsInItForMeThe Jazz need outside scoring WAY MORE than they need
individual defensive ability.---------Defense...
Defense.... Defense...Jazz finished 9th in FG percentage at .465 and
14th in points 99.47 (overall 14th)Jazz finished 19th in points
allowed 101.3 (overall 19th).Yes they need shooting but they need
Millsap produced 17 and 8 in a very turbulent year. He will improve his outside
shooting and develop some additional inside moves. His defense is a limitation
but he is more or less a top 10 PF based on numbers. He actually is top 3 if you
look at just power forwards and not PF/Cs.Millsap is already
producing Bogut type numbers. Bogut is a C and AJ is a C. AJ is not a good PF.
Go look at the 82 game numbers by position for AJ. He gets killed on D by the
PFs. A line up of Bogut/Favors is tempting. It depends on what you
get for AJ? Bogut's injuries are also an issue. Could you trade AJ
and the 3 for Bogut? Would you want to? Does Bogut fit the Jazz?The
Jazz may have more options than we realize. MN may draft Williams
and then shop him. What do the Jazz have that MN might want? Do the Jazz really
want Williams that bad? This draft is fluid and several teams are
going to make moves to trade players who do not fit them for others who do.
not sure why so many people are high on Biyombo. The Jazz already have a guy
that's long and is crazy athletic in Evans. His contract is crazy cheap right
now, so they can just develop him. He showed some flashes of a good offensive
game. I wish that Irving or Williams would be available, but they'll be gone 1
and 2.But here's what the Jazz could do based on how i see it:one option is3.) Kanter (He's a legit big man, but injury history
and a glut at the 4 and 5 might not help too much. Not sure12.) Fredette
(he can shoot...Jazz need it. And with Watson and Price being FA's, you need a
back-up point.or3.) Knight (again, need a point guard.
who knows if he'll want to stay after his contract, though.)12.) Burks or
Singleton (someone that can shoot in Burks or a defensive stopper in Singleton.
With AK gonna be gone you think, Singleton is big and athletic to play some good
D, and he wont be like AK and get hurt if someone sneezes on him or
something.)needs: shooting and defense in my opinion
Did Rodman now how to shoot? No. Play defense and rebound and he too can have
a long NBA career.
Valanciunas is considered by many scouts to be the best player in the draft but
that will not be clear for 5 years. Great Cs are very hard to get. They also
consider Kanter to be a good prospect but with more risk. Biyombo is
dropping. Knight is perceived to be dropping a little. Someone indicated Jimmer
would drop out of the top 15.The Jazz need wings who can shoot badly
but they also need better perimeter defense. They need players on the wings who
can do both O and D. The Jazz claim Jimmers defensive footwork is
adequate. PHO claims he can defend in the half court. Those are not ringing
endorsements. Could be posturing?MIL may trade Bogut to MN for the 2
pick. There are still questions about Bogut's injuries. MIL wants Williams.The Jazz might be able to get Bogut for the 3. It would be steep but
Millsap and the 3 should get Bogut. Not sure how to make the salaries match.Is Bogut better than Kanter/Valanciunas 5 years from now? Bogut's best
year was 16 points with 10 boards. I think Kanter/Valanciunas are capable of
that. Trade Millsap for wings.
I think Jimmer is more of a penitrator/creator than Hory was.I like
JonasV. he could be better than Kanter, I have been on the Kanter wagon for
months but I'm leaning towards Jonas, I would be happy with either one though. I
just don't want Knight at 3, we need a big at 3. At 12, I like Jimmer, BB,
Singleton(leary of his poor shooting though), Burks, Harris.Joker: You are
being a joker, why don't you like what Jimmer would bring to the Jazz, he brings
what we need. Great outside shooter, and a player that can put the ball on the
floor and create for himself or his teammates. Jimmers D will be fine, he's not
as slow or unathletic as people think , his D won't be a problem. Jimmer is much
more versatile than Korver, as good or better shooter, better passer, can move
his feet and play D better. Jimmer has a good attitude and will learn how to be
a pass first point.
The Jazz need outside scoring WAY MORE than they need individual defensive
ability. So, Singleton isn't the answer at any pick.The Jazz also
need HEIGHT to compete with the likes of the Lakers. Williams and Kanter and
Jonas are the best tallish prospects in the draft.So, the Jazz need
to guarantee themselves the best tall guy AND the best long shooter. Anything
less leaves the Jazz still wanting, still short of fixing their weaknesses.Getting the two they need won't happen with the 3rd and 12th picks.The Jazz need to make some trades for better picks. At least get the
12th moved way up.
To answer the question posed by the headline: "NO"
The Jazz already saw Biyombo in Europe. I think if he drops to #12, the Jazz
would take him. Chris Singleton or Tobias Harris also look like a pretty good
picks at #12.
Do not draft singleton. Jazz have had a SF with no offense for the last 12 years
in AK. We need a player that can score from the perimeter not a guy that you can
pick up in free agency every year. Defensive wing players are a dime a dozen
Jazz need a defensive big like a Chandler type player.
If the jazz want defense they should take Bismack Biyombo over Singleton in my
opinion. He is bigger, longer, stronger. He is also a question mark on offense
but he can definately finish at the rim. He can rebound. Odds are that the Jazz
won't take him though, since they didn't bring him in for a workout.
Anybody would be better than Jimmer at 12. Defense wins championships and that's
what kind of team a championship team needs to be. I don't know if Singleton
would be my first choice at 12 but I wouldn't complain if we took him.
The Jazz brass are telling Jazz fans and Jimmer he's not going to be the 12th
Isn't the complaint against AK-47 is that he can contribute on offense? His
offense hasn't been fixable and I think he shoots better than 40%.
I think a good comparable for Singleton is a longer, faster Ron Artest (without
the crazy personality).
Could Jeff Hornacek be a good comparable for Fredette?
At the #3 spot, you would think the Jazz priority list would be something like
(1)Kyrie Irving, (2) Derrick Williams, (3) Enes Kanter, (4) Brandon Knight, (5)
Jonas Valanciunas, (6) Jan Vesely, (7) Kawhi Leonard.At the #12
spoot, you would think the Jazz priority list would be something like (1)
Bismack Biyombo, (2) Chris Singleton, (3) Alec Burks, (4) Jimmer Fredette, (5)
Tobias Harris, (6) Donatas Motiejunas, (7) Jordan Hamilton, (8) Marcus
Morris.My comparables (best case scenario): (1)Kyrie Irving -- a
poor man's Isiah Thomas; (2) Derrick Williams -- a poor man's Carmelo Anthony;
(3) Enes Kanter -- Kurt Thomas; (4) Brandon Knight -- a smaller Clyde Drexler
(that's who I think he moves like).At the #3 pick, I would be happy
with one of Irving, Williams, Kanter or Knight. At the #12 spot, I would be
happy with one of Biyombo, Singleton, Leonard (if he fell that far), Burks,
Fredette, Harris, Hamilton or Motiejunas.I don't really like
Valanciunas, Vesely, Marcus Morris, Tristan Thompson, Klay Thompson.
I watched Singleton in the NCAA tourney and he shot well when it counted. He can
play D and his offense is not bad and will improve with time. You want players
who can play both D and O not just specialists.Tobias could develop
into a very good SF. The Morris Bros are not likely to be better
than Millsap and the Jazz want to get longer at SF. I am not a big fan of either
for the Jazz as they don't improve the team beyond the players the Jazz already
have.KOC is right about longer and taller. He is tired of losing to
LA and so am I.