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BYU-Utah rivalry taking on a different feel

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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 24, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    @utes21

    A "tangent"? How many states outside of Utah are making u of u liscense plates? I'd venture none. Seriously utah's spike in merchandise sales is attributable to fans never even had any of their stuff finally buying some because they are no longer ashamed to wear it. It will die off soon enough. If you really want to prove something let's see the numbers for purchases of utah fan gear outside of the salt lake valley. If they have sold more than one hat in ann arbor, Michigan to go with exactly zero of it anywhere else outside of salt lake I will be shocked beyond belief.

    But if it makes you feel better to think people are buying utah gear in Macon, Georgia and Sioux City, Iowa then by all means believe that. No one else does.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    June 23, 2011 1:38 p.m.

    Duck you crack me up man! All I was saying is that Utah has accomplished a lot in just one decade. Then you go off on a tangent about texas people buying byu plates? Proves my point about your insecurities. Why does that matter? The U still out ranks them in sales of merchandise so there must not be to big of a demand for those plates. If you look at it montana makes more then byu. There must be a lot of montana fans in texas also buying there teams plates.
    Its great to see the respect The U deserves for its hard work. I cant wait for the season. I dont care if we dont meet expectations, all I care about is this team coming out and competing. It may be a rough year but I still am excited.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 22, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    @utes21

    If you have to declare victory it generally means no one but you thinks you are victorious.

    So is the university of utah now so relevent that they are getting these in other states?

    "Many BYU fans are located in the heart of Texas. In fact, there are so many BYU fans in the Lone Star State that the Texas DMV is in the process of making a BYU Texas license plate"

    Got that little tidbit from a Texas site.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    June 22, 2011 12:55 a.m.

    Uteology

    "I can't wait to get out here wit these Boise State or should I say Girlse State they a bunch of cheerleaders...lol." DeVonte Christofer, Utah Football Player

    "During halftime of the Pepperdine-Utah basketball game, Utah defensive end Christian Cox guaranteed a victory while he was speaking to the crowd."

    Whittingham said there would be no disciplinary actions for Christopher, but that the two had several conversations about it.

    Of course, after his famous on-side kick against Wyoming while leading by 50 points, Kyle could hardly discipline his players for boorish behaviour.

  • Utes21 Salt Lake City, ut
    June 21, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    @Duckhunter
    The more and more you comment the more and more you show your little brother insecurities. You always just try to come up with stuff to stay revelant. Utelogy has you beat
    A) BCS busters
    B) to the PAC-12
    C) to being recognized as a national brand
    Utah has come pretty far in one decade while byu has struggled. Not saying byu hasnt had a great program in the past but they havent done what TCU and Utah have been able to accomplish. Honestly the best mid major around at least the last couple years has been Boise st. They have whooped up on all the Utah schools.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 21, 2011 2:59 a.m.

    @DeepBlue

    It's about the fact that while BYU's national brand has basically stayed the same over the last 10 years Utah's brand has risen due to success on the national stage.


    @Duckhunter

    No what I am telling you is while you guys keep talking about "national brand" with accomplishments from Edward's players Utah in just 10 years has passed you by from nothing to...

    A) BCS busters
    B) to the PAC-12
    C) to being recognized as a national brand


    Funny how TV ratings and merchandise sales reveal that both programs are about equal yet BYU fans keep on talking about "national brand" because of "7 games on ESPN" next year.



    @Riverton Cougar
    "However, it is some of the "fans" that almost make me want to wish that they are blown out by 4 touchdowns every game."

    I feel the same about BYU because fans like this...

    BYU apologizes to USU for ill-advised Jumbotron message -- Deseret News (Nov 18, 2010)

    And players like this...

    BYU football: Max Hall reprimanded by Mountain West Conference -- Deseret News (Nov. 30, 2009)

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    June 21, 2011 12:32 a.m.

    The growing Utah fan base is an illusion, but forcing an entire stadium full of Utah fans to shell out good money for those hideous camo jerseys for blackout night is obviously paying off for the Utes. Unfortunately, all good things must come to an end. A couple of losing seasons in the PAC and Utah gear sales will plummet like a rock.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    June 20, 2011 10:25 p.m.

    "A Ute alum calling himself BlueCoug? That probability Okay, now I've seen everything."

    My dad is currently getting a doctorate degree at the University of Utah in a medical program. He got his undergraduate degree at the University of Utah, partly because tuition was cheaper for him because his dad was a physics professor there at the time. I believe my grandpa (the one who taught there) also got one or more of his degrees at Utah, but I'm not sure.

    They're both BYU fans.

    In fact, my first college football experience was when I went with my dad and grandpa (who had student tickets) to see Utah play against Texas A&M back in 2004. I wore a red sweater and cheered on the Utes.

    I don't have a problem with the University itself; it is a great university and has many very respectable programs (such as the medical school). However, it is some of the "fans" that almost make me want to wish that they are blown out by 4 touchdowns every game.

    I am a very faithful BYU fan who likes to take jabs at the U in jest, but I respect the U. Respect the Y.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 20, 2011 10:24 p.m.

    @uteology

    So what you are telling us is that no one owned a peice of utah clothing or gear before a couple of years ago and then all of the fair weather fans ran out and bought stuff causing a short lived surge. That pretty much confirms what I have noticed. 10 years ago there wasn't a bit of ute gear anywhere, ute "fans" were either apathetic, or ashamed, and never wore any of it. Now that they have an illusion of relevence they all bought stuff all at once. Over the next couple of years it will fall back to pretty much zero again. Get back to us when they actually sustain something.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 20, 2011 7:37 p.m.

    Reverse just a couple years...

    2008
    1. Texas
    2. Michigan
    3. Florida
    4. LSU
    5. Notre Dame

    46. Brigham Young
    53. University of Utah

    Wow. After Utah's greatest decade in history (actually just 2 great BCS seasons in 2004 and 2008), Utah(49) barely edged BYU(51).

    On the heals of Jimmermania, a stellar year for Heaps and company could easily skyrocket the Cougars past the Utes in 2011, especially with BYU football and basketball being televised weekly on ESPN, while Utah is toiling in VERSUS obscurity.

    The spike in Utah sales because of their BCS success and PAC 12 invite will wain quickly if the Utes become a perennial middle of the PAC team, which is very likely considering the Utes have only won 6 conference championship in the last 60 years.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 20, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    Fast forward 10 years of success on the national stage...

    "2010
    1) Texas
    2) Alabama
    3) Florida
    4) LSU
    5) North Carolina

    (49.) University of Utah
    (51.) Brigham Young University '

    well played uteology, well played indeed. Ducky's had a rough few days on the boards. And by the way, LOL!

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    June 20, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    Uteology

    Another way to measure fanbase is which teams are national broadcasters most interested in televising.

    BYU in 2011 - SEVEN games on ESPN

    Utah in 2011 - ONE game on ESPN (courtesy of BYU)

    When ABC/ESPN had a chance to pick Utah's PAC 12 debut against USC, the World Wide Leader passed.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 20, 2011 5:01 p.m.

    Duckhunter | 9:19 a.m. June 20, 2011

    Gotta echo phoenix and Troll Hunter, I'd love to know where this "growing fanbase" is coming from? utah has pretty much all of the fans they are ever going to have.

    -----------

    Try success on the national stage. Heres one way to measure such success...

    According to The Collegiate Licensing Company Names Top Selling Universities:

    2001
    1) North Carolina
    2) Michigan
    3) Tennessee
    4) Nebraska
    5) Florida

    46) BYU
    Utah unranked

    Fast forward 10 years of success on the national stage...

    2010
    1) Texas
    2) Alabama
    3) Florida
    4) LSU
    5) North Carolina

    (49.) University of Utah
    (51.) Brigham Young University

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 20, 2011 4:40 p.m.

    @BlueCoug
    "As a Utah alum, I've known many people who are/were fans of other schools, who, when they moved to Utah became Utah fans just so they could root against the Mormons."

    ------------

    A Ute alum calling himself BlueCoug? That probability Okay, now I've seen everything.

    I'm a Ute alum class and a diehard Ute fan that grew up in Salt Lake, of the dozens of Ute fans that I know not one I would stereotype like you just did.

    I can't imagine ANY fan moving to another state and then switching teams, probability is closer to zero. If they hate Mormons so much why move to Utah in the first place?

    Second I have a hard time believing that someone is going to come up to you and tell you they hate Mormons and worse yet you did nothing about it. Is this Counter Intelligence?

  • DevilishUte Tempe, AZ
    June 20, 2011 3:58 p.m.

    Blew Kewg -

    I think the number of extremists is smaller than you think and certainly the exception rather than the rule. I am Mormon and attended the U for undergrad and, while I witnessed some unfortunate incidents and heard some disparaging remmarks, they were fairly limited. Certainly, no worse than what one experiences anywhere outside of Utah. You may have attended the U, but you view the world through blue goggles.

    As a part of my undergrad program, I attended BYU for a study abroad program and noted that there were extreme BYU students who claimed that only good Mormons attended the Y and anyone who went somewhere else was not worth their time.

    The extremism is found on both sides, but is a small, if not, insignificant cross section of the population.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 20, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    Uteology

    Strange as it may seem to you, there are a lot of Utah fans who are more BYU/Mormon haters, than they are Utah fans. As a Utah alum, I've known many people who are/were fans of other schools, who, when they moved to Utah became Utah fans just so they could root against the Mormons. Kind of a the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend kind of thing.

    The U has a strange pro-Mormon/anti-Mormon mix. A mostly pro-Mormon administration, with a large segment of anti-Mormon faculty, and majority LDS studentbody. I once attended a BYU-Utah football game while I was a student at the U where they passed out a "special" edition of the Chrony that was almost entirely anti-Mormon propaganda.

    It's even apparent in the comments made on the DN blogs, that many of the bloggers who pretend to be Utah fans are decidedly more anti-Mormon than they are pro-Utah.

    Utah, for them, is simply a foil they use to vent their anti-Mormon hostility.

    Sad, but true.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 20, 2011 2:37 p.m.

    @BlueCoug
    It's ironic that so many Utah fans are really just BYU haters and are only Utah fans because they hate Mormons.

    -------

    Really, how many? What's more ironic is hating Mormons but then cheering for the ones in crimson, like Kyle Wittingham.

  • Thlete Draper, UT
    June 20, 2011 1:02 p.m.

    "You have to build a resume of steady performance to win a NC."

    Oh really? Maybe true for a non-AQ like BYU, but how many steady performance years did Auburn have leading up to their title last year?

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 20, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    EdGrady

    "The BYU-Utah rivalry is driven by religion."

    It's ironic that so many Utah fans are really just BYU haters and are only Utah fans because they hate Mormons; ironic since the majority of Utah's students and fanbase are Mormons.

    That segment of the Utah fanbase will never see Colorado as a rival.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    June 20, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    The BYU-Utah rivalry is driven by religion. That hasn't changed, so neither will the intensity.

  • davidutefan Evanston, WY
    June 20, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    Reading these posts, I started to realize one thing. I really don't hate the TDS nearly as much. I'll never really like them but, I can see myself cheering for them in games against over-rated so-called storied teams. They'll be great spoiler against those teams. I get sick of hearin how tough the SEC , for example, is. Yes, beating Vanderbilt, Kentucky, and such and then playing at least one patsy every year. Then they brag about how tough the schedule is. I'd like to see the Y beat Ole Miss and a couple of other on their schedule. and Then there's Notre Dame. The last Nat'l title they won was only 3 years after the Cougs but, these are "storied programs. I say Give them Heck (since I can't say the other word here. I hope you win every game except Utah.

  • CG Orem, UT
    June 20, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    2020

    "BYU's football program is good, therefore attendance has gone back up. If the ways of the Crowton era would have continued, there would be 20,000 people at the games in Provo."

    Even during the Crowton years, BYU football attendance was still around 60,000. But you're correct, BYU football is good, has been good for the last 40 years, and has all of the assets in place to continue to be good.

    Even during BYU's 1-25 basketball season, BYU attendance never dropped to the 5,000 level we saw in the HC this year. Utah listed attendance at 8,000+, but that was paid attendance; actual attendance was far less as anybody who's watched games in the HC for that last 30 years could tell you. For many Utah games, the lower bowl was only half full and the upper bowl was nearly empty.

    Bottom line for football is BYU had enough fan support 30 years ago to expand their stadium to 65,000. Even with their AQ conference invite, Chris Hill is still hesitant to expand 45,000 seat RES because he doesn't what to spend millions on seats that could go unused.

  • 2020 Herriman, UT
    June 20, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    I love BYU fan getting on Utah fan about being bandwagoners. Even the Cougars don't show up when BYU's teams don't either. I remember in their 1 win basketball season when there were approximately 1,500 people in the Marriott Center. During the Crowton era, the numbers were starting to dwindle. I will be the first to say that Bronco saved the day. He's a great coach, BYU's football program is good, therefore attendance has gone back up. If the ways of the Crowton era would have continued, there would be 20,000 people at the games in Provo.

    As an active member of the church and a Ute fan that has been to games at BYU, I can also say that approximately half of BYU fans aren't really fans at all. they are just members of the church who think going to the games is just something fun to do.

    Any team needs to keep winning to keep the attendance up.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 20, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    @kamute

    Gotta echo phoenix and Troll Hunter, I'd love to know where this "growing fanbase" is coming from? utah has pretty much all of the fans they are ever going to have. It isn't like some kid from SoCal, Seattle or Tucson is going to start liking, and following, them for some reason. In utah they are always going to have a minority of the fans and the majority of the "fans" they have now are very tenuous and only show up when they are winning. Maybe you haven't been in the h.c. the last several years? I can't blame you if you haven't been there as not much of anyone has.

    That really is the 100 pound gorilla in the room as far as the utes are concerned. They lack any national appeal, frankly they don't have any real regional appeal, and despite ute "fan" attempts to gloss it over it is a big deal. Their potential fanbase is limited to however many people live in this state and since 60% of those are going to be BYU fans their potential is less than half of the population of utah. But they'll never even get that many.

  • Troll Hunter Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 20, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Phoenix, you took the words right out of my mouth... Growing fan base ????

    This is one of the smallest fan bases in the country, they may pick up a few "bandwagoners" or ie BYU Haters (trolls) because of their success over the past 8 years and their invite to the PAC 10.2, but I doubt the fan base will reach a national following.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 20, 2011 8:19 a.m.

    KamUte

    "Growing fan base"???

    From where?

    Except for their loss at BYU, nobody is going to see the Utes play except on regional FOX and Utah has already maxed out on attracting casual fans from the local market.

    Uteology

    Sure, it was great for Kyle playing in a BcS game, but other than that, he's done a disappearing act. That's why Utah will never have a shot at a NC. You have to build a resume of steady performance to win a NC.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    June 20, 2011 7:41 a.m.

    Every year it will be fun.

    Home games vs. USC UCLA ASU U of A Stanford Washington Cal.

    21 to 31 million for the U

    Growing fan base

    Inclusion

  • byu116970 Tooele, Utah
    June 20, 2011 4:29 a.m.

    i can see the uties spinning it now lets get rid of the rivalry so we can play SW Missouri st, duke and memphis instead cuz our pac 10.2 schedule is too hard. We cant afford to lose to byu so we can get our shot at a NC. My how fast the bcs arrogance spreads. With the tailspin they did last year, a better sos, and pretty much the same team last year, we will find out that their bcs bark is worse than their bite

    for some miracle you pull it together(rofl) and you get to the pac championship, just hope its not because that usc cant play in the post season, then you will be labeled division champs by default, not legit.

    do us a favor and don't lay an egg with montana st so your not 0-2 for the sept 17 evening behind the woodshed game

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 20, 2011 12:50 a.m.

    Hegdehog | 6:31 p.m. June 19, 2011

    Umm. ...did you watch how that 2006 recruiting class did on the field against ranked teams and bowl teams?!?

    -------------------

    Yes I did. They did much, much better than BYUs 2006 class did against cupcakes.

    In fact, some experts, not from Utah County, have picked Utah as favorite to with the PAC-12 South. So I can only assume they believe that KW has enough talent to compete.

    Thanks for your concerns but Utah will be just fine with KWs recruits.

    Go Utes!!

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 20, 2011 12:28 a.m.

    @TrueBlue

    I do agree that the only one that cares about BYU's rankings with an average ranking of #18 is BYU... since everyone else in this era is counting BCS wins.

    It seems teams like Tennessee from the SEC weren't impressed. It seems they feel the guy with 33% is more impressive than the guy with 66%. I can only assume that if BYU's rankings were impressive then Bronco would be in demand like KW, Chris Petersen, and Gary Patterson.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 19, 2011 10:29 p.m.

    @One Nil

    Football is a violent and brutal sport. Sometimes people lose their temper. I loved Max Hall's comments. Extremely competitive, and perfectly worded.

    Sounds like you should go back to women's gymnastics. I hear they are much nicer in that sport. Fans are very respectful.

    Go Cougars!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 19, 2011 10:19 p.m.

    @nil

    As I'm sure you'll print out and show him the original post by the howie I was responding to. What? No glass houses response for him?

    Typical ute "fan" hypocrisy, but not in anyway surprising.

    LOL

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 19, 2011 10:11 p.m.

    @one nothing... Christmas 2010

  • IndianaCoug Bloomington, IN
    June 19, 2011 8:29 p.m.

    Only 75 days until kickoff. I can't wait!

  • One Nil to the Arsenal! Gilbert, AZ
    June 19, 2011 7:43 p.m.

    @ Ducky

    "But let's pose a question to ute "fans" like yourself. Seeing as though the state of Utah is a samll state, with a small population, and it clamors for positive attention to attract tourists and business wouldn't it behove the stats flagship university to make a better attempt at creating a sense of goodwill and sportsmanship with their opponents?"

    I couldn't agree more. Wouldn't it be great if after throwing a game winning TD in OT, your QB would avoid shoving and taunting Sylvester in the back on the way to Celebrate in the end zone. Or even better, wouldn't it be great if the home fans could avoid taunting the visiting head coaches' wife as she makes her way to the field to find her husband. Lame remark. It's not all Punch and cookies down in Provo brother.....I work with an orthopedic surgeon who use to play center for Utah State. You should hear the stories he has about Your beloved cougars "creating a sense of goodwill and sportsmanship with their opponents." That's a cute remark. I'm going to print it up and show him.

    "People who live in Glass houses......"

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    June 19, 2011 6:31 p.m.

    @uteology
    "...I can safely assume he can compete with his own #60 class of 2006."

    Umm. ...did you watch how that 2006 recruiting class did on the field against ranked teams and bowl teams?!?

    They were juniors & seniors and leaders on the team who needed a bogus fumble call and major gaffes by BYU coaches to eke out a questionable win at home against a bunch of mostly freshman. Then against TCU, ND & BSU they were routed by a combined score of 13-101.

    Its time to wake up and smell the Postum, those were Kyle's recruits from 2006 & 2007 leading the way. There's a lot of words to describe the results against decent or good teams last year but "competitive" isn't on the list.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2011 4:59 p.m.

    The best possible scenario for future BYU/Utah rivalry games would be for BYU to accept an invitation to the Big-12 (and No Sunday Play naysayersit will happen despite what you think or like). At that point I see commissioners from the Pac-12 and Big-12 agreeing to a possible late October date for the match-up since theyll agree to give it some form of protected rivalry status.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 19, 2011 4:54 p.m.

    Uteology

    You seem to be getting lost in the minutia, so let me help you out here.

    In school, it doesn't matter if you ace the final, but bomb the mid-term. The only thing that matters is the "B" that you got on your report card for your final grade; nobody, besides you, cares how you got there.

    College football is like that. It doesn't matter if you ace the final (beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl), but bomb the mid-term (get shutout by UNLV(2-10) 0-27. The only thing that matter is your final grade, i.e., your final ranking in the polls; nobody, besides you, cares how you got.

    Recruits, draft picks, great wins, ugly losses, have already been calculated into the final rankings for each season. It doesn't matter how they got there.

    Bottom line, during the Bronco/Kyle era, which is the only era that matters when comparing current programs:

    Bronco finished in the Top 25 (both polls) four out of six seasons (66%).
    Kyle finished in the Top 25 (both polls) two out of six seasons (33%).

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2011 4:34 p.m.

    I see both BYU and Utah Kool-Aid drinkers attempting to troll the comments in this story perpetually. Lets put some cold hard freezing water on the reality of this whole direction of this rivalry:
    Evan as an independent, since most BCS conferences have October/November scheduling restrictions, BYU scheduling more than 4-5 opponents from these leagues each year is pure fantasy. Look for increasing numbers of the FBS dregs leagues like the WAC, Sun-Belt or worse yet FCS schools from the Big Sky on future Cougar schedules should they remain independent. This as much as anything is why BYU is now in a more precarious position where their popularity or marketability could decline.
    Utah still is not the equal of BYU in fan support in the Salt Lake City TV market, and this as much as anything was why Utah was the last real option on Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scotts Radar in taking to his school presidents/chancellors. This is why they sought Texas and Oklahoma schools first before turning to Utah. It will take time but Utah could regain their preeminent position in the local market not seen since the 1960s.

  • MichiganCoog Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2011 2:15 p.m.

    Howie,

    Just stating facts as I see them, just like the pros like Phil Steele, Athlon's and other national College Football writers that see from results on the field...Utah face-planted and/or lucked out to finish 3-3, lost a vast majority of their upper classmen, and BYU finished on a highnote 5-1 (nearly 6-0). Facts that are right there in front of you to make objective judgements on how well any given team will perform, from one year to the next. Yes, we don't really know how well BYU or Utah will perform, but based on the obvious signs as to how last season ended, how well spring ball went, who is returning, in what key positions, leads one to state what projections of the success and/or failure of something. One Paper, BYU could finish no worse than 8-4, and potentially 11-1, and Utah from 5-7 to 7-5 based on the same criteria.

    I guess we'll see how it all plays out...IMO that BYU will finish 10-2, and the Utes 6-6, with a 31-17 victory for BYU on 9/17...mark it down!

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 19, 2011 12:43 p.m.

    @Hegdehog

    According to Scout the class rankings for Urban recruits:

    2005: Utah #71 vs BYU #53 ... 5 years ... KW 10-3
    2004: Utah 68 vs BYU 55 ... 5 years ... KW 10-3
    2003: Utah 95 vs BYU 59 ... 5 years ... KW 13-0

    According to Scout the class rankings for Kyle recruits:

    2011: Utah 50 vs BYU 63
    2010: Utah 50 vs BYU 22
    2009: Utah 55 vs BYU 40
    2008: Utah 65 vs BYU 57
    2007: Utah 66 vs BYU 42
    2006: Utah 60 vs BYU 46

    NOTE: In 2011 it was the first year Utah has had better recruits than BYU.

    In conclusion, if KW can take a 2003 #95 recruiting class to AP #2 (13-0) I can safely assume that he will be able to compete with his own #60 class from 2006.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:29 p.m.

    "our #26 Utah lost to #2, #8, and @ND "

    Correction, your #26 was DESTROYED by TCU, and embarrassed by Boise State and unranked Notre Dame. That's why you plummeted from Top 5 when you played TCU, to unranked at the end of the season.

    You're either ranked or you're unranked. #26 is just as much unranked as #120.

    #14 average ranking is insignificantl to #18 average ranking. Unless you're perennial Top 10 team, nobody cares.

    BYU has three Top 15 finishes in the Bronco/Kyle era. Utah only has one.

    Bronco never lost to Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, or UNLV.

    Kyle lost to all of them, including that humiliating loss to UNLV(2-10) 0-27.

    Kyle had one great year in 2008, 13-0, #2/#4, but was only finsihed in the AP Top 25 one other time.

    Bronco had three very good years in 2006, 2007, and 2009, 11-2, Top 15 each year, and finished in the Top 25 four times.

    Kyle had a higher a high, but he lacks the consistent excellence of Bronco.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 19, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    @LonestarRunner | 11:36 a.m. June 19, 2011

    When U get to 17 Top 25 finishes, THEN you can quibble about BYU's and Utah's lowest Top 25 finishes.

    --------------

    13 of 17 were with Edwards' recruits which included 3 top 10 teams (last team was in 1996).... since then Utah, TCU, and Boise have had multiple teams finish in the AP top 5.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:10 p.m.

    Uteology

    If you knew half as much about recruiting as you pretend to know, you'd know that recruiting is cyclical.

    Some in-state recruits are dyed in the wool crimson. They're going to pick Utah regardless.

    Some in-state recruits are dyed in the wool blue. They're going to pick BYU regardless.

    What will change in recruiting is that both programs will be recruiting more and more athletes from out of state and there will only be a handful of athetles that BYU/Utah go head-to-head in recruitng that were truly undecided before the recruiting process started.

    Don't be so certain of your superior BcS conference draw.

    Playing storied teams from throughout the country, being a very successful independent, and playing most of your games on ESPN has its own special draw.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 19, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    scenic view | 12:00 a.m. June 19, 2011

    Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 3
    Utah 2

    -------------

    I love it, BYU fans keep lowering the bar down from top 10 to top 15.

    Top 10 finishes:

    WAC: BYU 3 vs Utah 0

    MWC: TCU 3 vs Utah 2 vs BYU 0

    As far as MWC top teams:

    Utah
    1. 2008 #2 13-0 16 AP #1 beat #6 #7 #18 #25
    2. 2004 #4 12-0
    3. 2009 #18 10-3
    4. 2003 #21 10-3
    5. 2010 #26 10-3 98 votes for top 25
    Average: #14.2

    BYU
    1.2009 #12 11-2 beat #18 Utah spanked @LES by 7-6 FSU
    2.2007 #14 11-2 down year for both TCU and Utah
    3.2006 #16 11-2 beat #22 TCU
    4.2001 #25 12-2
    5.2008 #25 10-3
    Average Ranking: #18.4

    In conclusion, our #26 Utah lost to #2, #8, and @ND and never struggled against cupcakes but we can't say the same for your 2001 and 2010 #25 teams.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2011 11:36 a.m.

    Midi

    "two of your AP top 25 finishes have been at #25"

    BYU has 17 Top 25 finishes
    Utah only has 5.

    When U get to 17 Top 25 finishes, THEN you can quibble about BYU's and Utah's lowest Top 25 finishes.

    Until Utah actually does something in a BcS conference, the Utes are nothing more than Washington State, an also ran used to fill out the field for a conference championship.

    As far as the WCC, fans of a team that couldn't even beat WCC cellar dweller San Diego should just hold their tongues. I see Utah down-graded to San Diego Christian this year. If that doesn't work out, what's next, San Diego Junior High?

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 19, 2011 11:31 a.m.

    @Swoop
    "explain how Utah is going to be competitive in the PAC 12, if the Utes can't win PAC 12 road games. Utah is 4-9 on the road against the PAC 10 since 1991."

    -------------

    Simple, they have to have better talent than before.

    Recent history, under coach KW, reveals that Utah is 0-3 on the road losing soundly in KW's first two seasons and barley losing to #11 @Oregon in 2009. Overall Utah is 3-3 vs PAC-10 teams under KW (2-0 @RES and 1-0 neutral).

    As of today Utah/TCU are doing a better job of developing NFL talent while BYU has had better recruiting classes according to Scouts. Average class ranking BYU 46, Utah 68, and TCU 70.

    There seems to be a trend developing for top 5 in state talent. In 2009 and 2010 Utah got just one player each, PAC/big boys picked off 2, and BYU took 2. Last year Utah took 4 of the top 5... Langi is the type of player that would have went to teams like USC.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 19, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    MidMajor

    "FYI, two of your AP top 25 finishes have been at #25."

    #25 is still ALOT better than being UNRANKED!!!

    Sticking with football, since Utah basketball is a trainwreck, Utah's #1 draft pick has been a complete bust. Your draft picks argument is as hollow as your national championship trophy case. After BYU beat then #3 Oklahoma, BYU haters panned Oklahoma as not being a very good team, yet that Oklahoma team had three of the first four draft picks, INCLUDING #1, who, by the way, is doing ALOT better than Alex.

    Sorry, Utah's utter lack of national cachet was proven when the Utes were COMPLETELY ignored by ABC/ESPN. Having to settle for VERSUS for their PAC 12 debut at storied USC is a slap in the face of epic proportions.

    Utah may be associated with a BCS conference, but you're still a little fish in a big pond.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 19, 2011 9:52 a.m.

    @knightowl

    As a native of Arizona, i know ASU and AZ have not done much on the football field as far as national prominence is concerned. Arizona has never won the pac10 in football. ASU has won the pac10 once, in 1996 with QB Jake Plummer. They lost the Their only Rose Bowl to Ohio State. ASU and AZ have never won a Rose Bowl or any BCS bowl since joining the pac10.

    Utah and Colorado will soon follow suit, because one school in the pac12 south, USC, will win that division every year for the next 10 years.

    BYU will win more games than Utah in 2011. Take that to the bank!

    Go Cougars!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 19, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    I actually like the rivalry game and I hope it stays. For those of u who want the rivalry game to end, why don't you start by ending your rivalry comments. Search for articles on Colorado and Washington State and write your negative comments about them and enjoy your new rivalries with the PAC cellar dwellars.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 19, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    MidMajor4ever
    FYI, Kyle has a winning record against the PAC-10 (4-3) and has a winning record against BCS teams (11-5). Bronco on the other hand has a losing record against BCS teams (8-9).

    This irrelevant statistic keeps coming up from so many of U. Beating Iowa State, Louisville (2X) and Michigan in their worst year are not credible BCS wins. A win against Air Force would have been a better accomplishment than these BCS teams.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 19, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    @Howard S

    What is a fact is Whittingham has gone .500 against PAC 10 teams in his tenure as head coach at Utah.

    So, lets do some math:

    Utah has 9 pac10 games, let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say Utah wins 5 of those 9.
    Utah has 3 nonconference games. They will probably beat Montana State, lose to BYU, and the Pitt game is a toss up.

    So Utah will either be 6-6, or 7-5 depending on how the Pitt game goes.

    Simple math for ute fans to understand.

    BYU on the other hand, at least 10 wins, probably 11, hopefully 12!

    Go Cougars!

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 19, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    @knightowl

    National championships in other sports? Everyone knows there are only two sports which major universities usually make money on: Football and Men's basketball.

    The biggest and most important sport at any university is usually Football. Which sports has the biggest Stadiums? Football.

    I know utah fans want to talk about their women's gymnastics team and how good they are, but honestly, I speak for all sport fans everywhere, we don't care! You can win 90 national championships in that sport, and no one will know!

    However, how many people watch the Super bowl or the college football national championship game every year*? Answer: billions.

    1984 > anything Utah has done.

    Go Cougars!

  • dww722 North Salt Lake, UT
    June 19, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    Im not sure how the rivalry can feel different when a game hasn't even been played yet. I think that the rivalry will be just as intense as ever (at least in football) if not more so. Utah will want to prove even more that they are the better team because of their PAC12 affiliation and BYU will continue to prove them wrong year after year.

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    June 19, 2011 4:23 a.m.

    @Howard S

    What will change? Plenty. Last seasons growing pains hurt plenty but served a worthwhile purpose. BYU had one of the youngest teams in the country but those players led by Jake Heaps (a pre-season Heisman candidate), Ross Apo, Cody Hoffman, Juice Quezada, along with some key RM returning former starters added to some key USC & Buck transfers give Bronco something he's never had, a full pipeline of major league talent, athleticism and critical depth at every position.

    Because 80% of BYU players serve 2 year missions its taken this long to recover from the Crowton mess. The next few years will likely net BYU yet another Heisman trophy and a 2nd National Championship. Utah, however, is headed in the polar opposite direction. On a positive note, maybe they can become an occasional host of the Kraft Food Fight Hunger bowl (that will require a concerted effort forcing Utah to finish in 6th place every year.

    That's a mighty tall request.

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    June 19, 2011 2:22 a.m.

    @midmajor
    Urban had 2 recruiting classes, 2004 & 2005. Giving each player 4-5 years would've meant that the bulk of the players would've been seniors in the years 2008-2009 and a handful after 2009-2010.

    This means the majority of players from 2010 are Kyle's and all of the players in the Utes disastrously nightmarish 1st season in the Pac12 are his recruits and clearly NOT BCS or Pac12 caliber athletes.

    Players getting drafted have been in sharp decline now that they're all Kyle's recruits. Basically, things are returning to the pre-Urban Meyer period of Ute football. (In other words, the Ron McBride era).

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:51 a.m.

    scenic view, bluto, howhard s, hegdehog (all the same person),

    FYI, two of your AP top 25 finishes have been at #25.

    This century Utah has been ranked by the AP in the top 5 two times to byu's 0. Utah has been invited to play in two BCS games, winning both, to byu's 0. Utah has been invited to join a BCS conference, byu hasn't.

    Utah has had the #1 pick in the NBA and NFL draft, byu hasn't ever. Utah has had 26 players drafted in the NFL this century to byu's 19. Utah has had two first round picks, byu has 0. Utah has had nine 2nd and 3rd round picks, byu has had three.

    Utah, TCU and Boise State have been the top three mid-major programs this century with Utah and TCU being rewarded to BCS status.

    Good luck in the Independent 1+3 and WCC.

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:29 a.m.

    howie

    The more relevant question for you is,

    "What will change for Utah in the PAC 12 to bring the Utes to national prominence?"

    Utah has only won 6 WAC/MWC championships in the last 60 years. Kyle has only won one MWC championship. Kyle consistently loses to MWC celler dweller, Wyoming, UNLV, New Mexico, and Colorado. And, Kyle has never beaten a PAC 10 team on the road.

    So what makes you think things are going to change for the Utes moving to the PAC 12?

    Utah's last 60 years of history suggests Utah is more likely to be another Arizona -- 30 years in the PAC and no Roses -- than another USC or Oregon.

  • Judge Smailes Cedar Hills, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:23 a.m.

    Utah Coaches use to recruit players by saying "you have a better chance to go to a BCS bowl game at Utah than most teams in the Pac 10" and "we have been to more BCS games than 8 of the 10 teams in the Pac 10 in the last 10 years" You know what, the Coaches were right, now BYU and other teams (Boise St.)will now use that against Utah when recruiting as I think BYU and Boise have much better chances to go to a BCS game than the Utes! Utah will go the way of ASU and U of Ariz as between them they have 2 BCS games in 33 years since they were invited back in 1978.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 19, 2011 12:17 a.m.

    Mountainman56 said:

    "..... will labor for relevance in the PAC 12 but will not compete on a consistent basis with the big boys of the conference. Why would anyone have any expectations that Utah would fare better or differently than Arizona or ASU? Those teams dominated the WAC for years before moving to the PAC 10."

    Since joining the Pac-10. AZ & ASU have done very well in baseball, softball, basketball, wrestling and football. Look and you will find national titles won by both schools in several sports.

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    June 19, 2011 12:14 a.m.

    Howard S.

    What will keep Utah from becoming a PAC 12 cellar dweller when the Utes have only won 4 of their last 13 PAC 10 road games? In fact, the Utes haven't won a road game against a PAC 10 team with a winning record since 1996.

    Kyle is winless against PAC 10 teams on the road:

    at UCLA 10-31
    at Oregon St 7-24
    at Oregon 24-31

    First game in the PAC 12 -- a road game at USC.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 19, 2011 12:13 a.m.

    Face it folks. BYU fans suffer from small man syndrome. Can't get over the fact that they have not been officially invited and accepted into a major conference. Even after 40 years of accomplishments that even today BCS conferences don't bother with.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:10 a.m.

    FYI mountainman,

    Utah and byu have had the same number of MWC Football championships. If byu has a long history of playing and beating teams of national prominence, why have they only scheduled four BCS opponents next season? Why does Bronco have a losing record against BCS teams?

    Do San Jose State, Utah State, Central Florida, Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State and Hawaii have national prominence? How many of those games do you think anyone outside of Happy Valley will want to watch on TV?

    Seven patsies, TCU and four BCS teams make up your 2011 schedule while Utah plays 10 BCS opponents and two patsie mid-majors (byu and Montana State).

    I would be jealous too if I were a y fan, so I understand your bitterness. Utah has left their old rivals behind for a new one, U. of Colorado.

    I wish you well in your independent 1+3 return to glory persuit and in your step down to the WCC.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 19, 2011 12:09 a.m.

    scenic view said:
    Baltimore, MD
    ""Just because they are on ESPN does not mean anything if people don't watch."

    Utah fans just keep embarrassing themselves. ESPN, didn't schedule seven BYU games for 2011 because they thought no one would be watching.

    Even the BYU haters who troll these blogs will be watching.

    What's undeniable is ESPN didn't think Utah's signature game, its PAC 12 debut at USC, was intriguing enough to televise. The Utes were fortunate that that ol' MWC standby, Versus, came to the rescue or the Utes would have be stuck listening to the game on ESPN 700."

    Yawn. ESPN could televise all BYU football games. At the end of the day its ratings. We wont know how that goes until the end of this season.

    BYU won't be the only team on ESPN. They are right up there with Toledo, Akron and others. Oh yeah there will be BCS conference games televised. Bet they get high ratings.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:00 a.m.

    @Mountainman56

    "BYU on the other hand, has a long history of playing and beating teams of national prominence..."
    *********

    Hey Mountainman, What will change in independence that will propel BYU to consistent victory over teams of national prominence when the Cougars currently have an overall losing record against BCS teams?

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 19, 2011 12:00 a.m.

    Midmajor

    "How many of those accomplishments and awards came in this century?"

    National Individual Awards
    BYU 1 - Doak Walker
    Utah 0 - lifetime

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 5
    Utah 4

    BYU has AS MANY AP Top 25 finishes THIS CENTURY, as Utah has in its ENTIRE HISTORY.

    Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 3
    Utah 2

    This century, even with the worst 3-game stretch for BYU in the last 60 years, Utah still can't keep up with BYU.

    Utah has a couple of BcS wins... sadly that's Utah's entire football history.

    Not a single national individual award; not a single player in the national college football hall of fame; no national championships; no Heisman Trophies.

    Sorry to disappoint U, but getting invited to the PAC 12 is not a college football hall of fame type of "achievement".

    Utah's resume is completely devoid of any real major college football hall of fame accomplishments.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:55 p.m.

    Classless name Hegdehog...

    FYI, Kyle has a winning record against the PAC-10 (4-3) and has a winning record against BCS teams (11-5). Bronco on the other hand has a losing record against BCS teams (8-9).

    If Meyer left after the 2004 season, how do you figure that Kyle doesn't have his players being drafted by the NFL? Meyer's players would have left by 2008 and Kyle has had many players drafted during the last two drafts. Care to compare Bronco's players drafted over the past two years vs. Kyle's players?

    Didn't think so.

    Enjoy your Independent 1+3 and WCC.

    Go Utes!

  • Mountainman56 Alpine, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:49 p.m.

    The rivalry will definitely take on a different feel because the two teams are heading in different directions. BYU will become an even bigger name program with independence and national television exposure. Utah will labor for relevance in the PAC 12 but will not compete on a consistent basis with the big boys of the conference. Why would anyone have any expectations that Utah would fare better or differently than Arizona or ASU? Those teams dominated the WAC for years before moving to the PAC 10. Utah has had 2 good years but has certainly not been dominant in the MWC or the WAC. BYU on the other hand, has a long history of playing and beating teams of national prominence like Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Miami, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Boston College, Texas A&M and multiple wins over 10 of the 12 teams in the PAC 12.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 18, 2011 11:33 p.m.

    "Just because they are on ESPN does not mean anything if people don't watch."

    Utah fans just keep embarrassing themselves. ESPN, didn't schedule seven BYU games for 2011 because they thought no one would be watching.

    Even the BYU haters who troll these blogs will be watching.

    What's undeniable is ESPN didn't think Utah's signature game, its PAC 12 debut at USC, was intriguing enough to televise. The Utes were fortunate that that ol' MWC standby, Versus, came to the rescue or the Utes would have be stuck listening to the game on ESPN 700.

  • Howhard S Bountiful, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:21 p.m.

    @slightowlamerica
    You said,"Typical BYU fan always living in the past", when someone posted about BYU's consensus 1984 National Championship.

    Utah's BCS glory is also in the past. Does that make you a typical Ute fan always living in the past? Or are you going to split hairs and try to pawn off on everyone that your past isn't as past as their past?

    You already have no credibility as it is...

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:10 p.m.

    @Howard s

    What former coaches like Ron McBride, Jim Fassel, Wayne Howard or Urban Meyer, etc did vs BCS teams doesn't have any bearing on today's utes or how they'll do this year in the Pac10+2. What matters is how your current Head Coach has done. During his tenure Kyle has gone .500 versus the PAC 10. He managed this very mediocre record while coaching the very best era in Utah football history. It took the very best the program had just to struggle to a .500 record.

    Now that all of Urban's recruits are gone and Kyle is forced to rely on his own recruits, Utah no longer has any NFL talent on their roster and looks slow and un-athletic on the field.

    Washington St is probably the happiest Pac12 team to have you join the conference. They now have a shot at finishing ahead of someone.

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:01 p.m.

    Bluto,

    How many of those accomplishments and awards came in this century?

    Keep holding onto the past... 1984 was a very long time ago. I doubt you are old enough to know this so let me help you understand that byu played the 7th place team from the Big Ten. Only two teams finished below Michigan in the Big Ten in 1984. The six teams ahead of them all played in better bowl games that produced more revenue for the schools and conference.

    byu's come from behind win over 6-6 Michigan did give them a NC based on the way media and coaches voted back in that era. With the poor SOS byu had during 1984 they would have had a very difficult time reaching a BCS game in today's NCAA football and would not have been invited to play for a NC without playing any strong teams. Only four teams they played finished above .500 (Utah, Air Force, Tulsa and Hawaii). byu, 1984 *National Champions.

    I'm looking forward to head-to-head competition with our new rivals, Colorado. I'm hoping byu enjoys their football rivalry with Navy? Army? Utah State? Basketball rival Pepperdine? Santa Clara? Portland?

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 18, 2011 10:52 p.m.

    You are absolutely right Howard S.
    Now would you mind showing me where I said anything about Utah's BCS wins please.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 18, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    MiP, "CougFaninTx: You (conviniently) left out Utah's wins over Cal in 2009, Alabama and Oregon State in 2008, and UCLA in 2007. Also, consider last year's Iowa State team won AT TEXAS (yes, THAT Texas, the marquee team on BYU's schedule this year."

    MiP, do you read my post? I was highlighting the cupcake BCS teams you played, not all the teams you played. And I specifically applaudeded the Utes for the win at Alabama. Go back and re-read my post. Selective reading?

    And do you honestly think the Texas team that shows up in 2011 will be the same team that was out there in 2010? That was their first losing season since 1997. I guarantee they will finish with double digit wins this year. I'm just hoping one of their loses will be on September 10. I'll be there cheering on the Cougs.

    Texas will finish the season ranked higher than any team U will play this year, unless of course BYU really exceeds my expectations in which case BYU could be ranked higher than Texas. (I'm expecting a 9-3 or 10-2 season.)

  • Howhard S Bountiful, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:47 p.m.

    @nightowlamerica

    News Flash!!!! Utah's 2 BCS bowl wins are also things in the past. Maybe you should pull the beam out of pour eye...

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 18, 2011 10:22 p.m.

    Bluto said:

    ".......BYU was voted "Number One" by all Four Major Organizations, making BYU, The "Consensus National Champion"!

    Your opinion..Irrelevant

    BYU's Legacy and Brand was established over 40 years!"

    Yep 40 years. And all that time nobody wanted them. Not even the Big Sky conference. Sounds like consensus national irrelevancy to me. Some legacy and brand.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    June 18, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    CougFaninTx: You (conviniently) left out Utah's wins over Cal in 2009, Alabama and Oregon State in 2008, and UCLA in 2007. But hey, selective stats can be some much more persuasive. Also, consider last year's Iowa State team won AT TEXAS (yes, THAT Texas, the marquee team on BYU's schedule this year.

    Bluto: Pretty sure you are the only person on this planet that believes BYU can get into a BCS bowl this year despite 2 losses.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 18, 2011 10:12 p.m.

    Cougar_Independence said:

    ".....And yes, Utah still doesn't have a national title. This will always be something the bigger brother has, and the little brother will always envy.

    Go Cougars!"

    Last time I checked, both Utah & BYU play more than football. Looks like Utah has won national titles in other sports. Some posters can't look beyond football.

  • FanofBYU American Fork, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    SoCal - Maybe you're just not paying attention so I'll help you. BYU should be happy to be playing 1 BCS school every year? BYU will be playing no less than 4 BCS teams in 2011 and they will be continuing that schedule for the next several years.

    It will not surprise me to see BYU playing 5-6 BCS schools in the future, which will be comparable to what Utah will do.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 18, 2011 9:46 p.m.

    Bluto said:

    ".....Let me demonstrate for you what makes a "Legacy Program", with enough of a Brand to have the Blowtorch ESPN want to televise 8, so far, of their games.

    When Utah has achieved these, get back to us, better yet, get back to ESPN.

    * A "Consensus" National Championship (5 Trophies)
    * A Heisman trophy
    * Two Outland trophies
    * Four Davey O'Brien trophies
    * Seven Sammy Baugh trophies
    * A Doak Walker trophy
    * 23 Conference Championships in 40 years
    * Two Super Bowl winning Q.B.'s
    * A Super Bowl MVP
    * Two NFL MVP's
    * 60 All-Americans 14 Consensus
    * Seven College Hall of Famers
    * One Legendary Coach

    ESPN knows a "Legacy Program" when they see it (BYU) and conversely, when they don't. (Utah)

    Why has BYU gone Independent?

    Because They Can!"

    Really? Just because they are on ESPN does not mean anything if people don't watch.

    Oh golly! That list of accomplishments is impressive. Apparently its not good enough for a BCS Conference invite. BYU went independent because nobody wants them.
    Utah is joining a conference that has won more national titles in all sports than any other in the country.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:30 p.m.

    @Truth Machine

    The events you described were inappropriate and should never happen.

    There I said it.

    Any recognition from the Collective that improprieties initiated by the Cougar faithful have ever occurred?

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 9:26 p.m.

    @Howard S

    I loved Max Hall's comments. I've attended BYU/Utah games in SLC before, and I cannot even count the number of things thrown and hit me from ute fans!

    I support Max Hall's comments 100%. He said what every BYU fan wants to say to any ute out there.

    And yes, Utah still doesn't have a national title. This will always be something the bigger brother has, and the little brother will always envy.

    Go Cougars!

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:23 p.m.

    @kamute
    And soon Utah will become Washington State. You can tell your kids & grandkids that the U actually once upon a time went to a couple of ABC's bowls. Then when they don't believe you you can bring out a history book and show them.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:15 p.m.

    @Bluto

    The puzzling thing Bluto, is that with all those awards and all that legacy, how is it that on the field (you know, where it counts) BYU has a losing record against BCS teams.

    Weird...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:10 p.m.

    @MichiganCoog

    "...realistically 5-7 is more likely..."
    *********

    MC, please just stop... you're embarrassing yourself.

    You don't know how Utah will do in the PAC any more than I do.

    You don't know how BYU will do in the Indy league any more than I do.

    What we do know is that BYU has a 46% record against BCS teams and Utah has a 69% record against BCS teams.

    Those are facts, and anything said more or less than that is just blowing smoke.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    One thing that will not change is BYU winning the academic war.

    US News 2011 USA Full time MBA rankings:

    #32: BYU
    #80: University of Utah

    Yeah, pac10 was looking for strong academics too....did I mention Arizona is ranked #83?

    Go Cougars! Winning on AND off the field!

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    June 18, 2011 9:06 p.m.

    NightOwlAmerica

    Same ol' jealous blather from the kids on the hill.

    Utah fans and their phony arguments about BYU's four-decade history of nationally significant success are laughable. Utah fans desperately try to downgrade BYU's history, because Utah has no history.

    BYU as an independent already has 7 nationally televised games on ESPN.

    Utah as an big boy, BcS associate, had to rely on a bone from BYU, or the Utes wouldn't have had a single game on ESPN.

    BYU has a history of reality.

    Utah has a history of fantasy.

  • MichiganCoog Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 18, 2011 8:24 p.m.

    Wow the Ute fans are out in force on this article, like flies to you know what. It'll be a blast to hear how quiet these comment boards become after Utah start 0-3 next fall. Interesting read in Phil Steele's 2011 College Football magazine, along with the Athlon's magazine both feel that Utah will stumble out of the gate in their maiden voyage into the PAC10.2...

    Howard S, KamUte, and all you other Ute slappies are just plain up in the night...Utah will continue to "face-plant" their way to at most a 7-5 record (AT BEST); realistically 5-7 is more likely.

    Mr. Wynn is by no means capable of leading your team...no guts, will be running for his life 50% of the time. No RB's with any experience...thank goodness you have a decent front 7 on "D", but your secondary will be the undoing of your Utes next fall. Based on the stumbling and bumbling to finish the season at 3-3 with a so-called veteran team (which should have been 2-4 Thanks to that terrible call), just a continuation of your wonderful b-ball team lies ahead...

  • parrothead orem, ut
    June 18, 2011 8:24 p.m.

    Howie, It's killing DuckHunter--can you hear his frustration--someone get him some warm milk so he can sleep!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    @NightOwlAmerica

    BYU was voted "Number One" by all Four Major Organizations, making BYU, The "Consensus National Champion"!

    Your opinion..Irrelevant

    BYU's Legacy and Brand was established over 40 years!

    Not 2 good years in 10.
    Or 2 BCS bowl games....which 10 teams play in every year.

    10 years ago the BCS did not exist, 10 years from now it won't exist either, so Utah is resting on this for Legacy? Sorry, doesn't cut it.

    Let me demonstrate for you what makes a "Legacy Program", with enough of a Brand to have the Blowtorch ESPN want to televise 8, so far, of their games.

    When Utah has achieved these, get back to us, better yet, get back to ESPN.

    * A "Consensus" National Championship (5 Trophies)
    * A Heisman trophy
    * Two Outland trophies
    * Four Davey O'Brien trophies
    * Seven Sammy Baugh trophies
    * A Doak Walker trophy
    * 23 Conference Championships in 40 years
    * Two Super Bowl winning Q.B.'s
    * A Super Bowl MVP
    * Two NFL MVP's
    * 60 All-Americans 14 Consensus
    * Seven College Hall of Famers
    * One Legendary Coach

    ESPN knows a "Legacy Program" when they see it (BYU) and conversely, when they don't. (Utah)

    Why has BYU gone Independent?

    Because They Can!

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 18, 2011 7:52 p.m.

    Bluto...

    You always give me a great belly laugh whenever you chime in.

    A 1-loss BYU will never male a bcs bowl. A 2-loss BYU will have trouble finding any bowl. If you are really foolish enough to believe any of the BCS bowls will even look at a 2-loss BYU then I genuinely advise you to stop making posts for your own reputation.

    On the other hand, a 2-loss BYU won't even be close to the top 10. So your rhetoric is all moot anyway.

    Of all the Y fans on these boards, you sir are the one whose posts reek the most of bitter jealousy and sour sour grapes.

    Thought I'd let you know.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 18, 2011 7:40 p.m.

    PistonHonda...

    Yea... the quality of Utah's opponents in the future will increase (and decrease) but the Ute squad itself will only be as good as the 2011 team, forever.

    Sound logic.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2011 6:54 p.m.

    Howard S.

    "I would be happy for, and supportive of, any tradition adopted by Utah to demonstrate goodwill and respect for their athletic opponents."

    Why don't you suggest something to the Utah administration. Did you utter a single word of complaint after last seasons' classless displays by your fellow Utah fans/athletes?

    -kicking snow on and showering Bronco with a constant stream of expletives during his post BYU-Utah game presser

    -sending out "girlsie-state" taunts

    -instigating near brawls before games against BYU and Boise State

    -treating your Notre Dame hosts with disdain and arrogance

    -not to mention, the beer pouring incidents and tasteless t-shirts/sweatshirts worn by Utah fans to BYU-Utah games.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 18, 2011 6:53 p.m.

    Cougar_Independence said:
    "@ Howard S

    Utah is in the pac12, but the bottom of the pac12 is where they will start and where they will be for the forseeable future.

    Utah = Washington State Jr.

    Congrats on the pac12 invite Utah! Enjoy going 6-6 this year!

    BYU's 1 National Championship overrides anything Utah has ever done! That's the bottom line.

    Go Cougars!"

    Typical BYU fan, always living in the past. Is the 1984 straw man title more important than winning a BCS title in the future?
    Make fun of WSU and Utah all you want. Even at the bottom they will be rolling in millions of cash.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 6:52 p.m.

    @Swoop

    Isn't it funny how SOS is relevant in evaluating Utah's success, but has no relevance at all when evaluating BYU's lone undefeated season which featured no ranked teams and an SOS ranked 104th.

    Weird...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 6:46 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Mutual respect? Trollish? Just because the question makes Cougars uncomfortable with the mission and purpose of their program doesn't make it trollish.

    Is that mutual respect reflected in the number of BCS conference invitations extended to BYU?

    Is it reflected in the comments of Max Hall from the BYU podium.

    Is it reflected in the comments of BYU fans and supporters on boards like this.

    Is it reflected in BB scoreboard messages disrespectful of opponents?

    It is reflected in the Haka that BYU performed on opponent's fields even knowing that it was antagonizing to opposing fans and players.

    Just wonderin' how BYU athletics goes about developing all this mutual respect?

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 18, 2011 6:44 p.m.

    Bluto said:

    "................It's amazing just how fast Utah and her fans adopted the Snobbish Elitist Attitude.

    It goes to show how insecure Utah really is with their own History. A program which could not win Conference Championships in the WAC or MWC, will certainly soon be relegated to Bottomfeeder Status in the Pac 10.2

    BYU, on the other hand, has a Brand worthy of ESPN telecasts and their own security of History with Heisman, Outlands, National Championship etc.

    Utah needs the "Contrived Comfort"."

    If all that BYU history is so great then why are then an independent? You would think a BCS Conference would jump on that. The National title was phony. Get real, they beat a 6-6 team. Any team in the top ten that year would have crushed BYU. Oh well its something we have to live with. A straw man national title that BYU won.

    Insecure indeed. BYU has a long road ahead of them. And their fans will always have a Snobbish Elitist Attitude.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2011 6:42 p.m.

    Howard S.

    "no one has explained yet how BYU will do better than their 46% record against the BCS"

    Watch and learn.

    In the mean time, maybe you'd like to explain how Utah is going to be competitive in the PAC 12, if the Utes can't win PAC 12 road games.

    Utah is 4-9 on the road against the PAC 10 since 1991, and only 2 of Utah's 4 wins were against teams with winning records.

    Utah PAC 10 Road Games Since 1991
    L @Oregon(10-3) 24-31
    L @Oregon(9-4) St 7-24
    L @UCLA(7-6) 10-31
    W @Arizona(3-8) 23-6
    L @Arizona(4-8) 17-23
    L @Oregon(11-1) 10-24
    L @California(3-8) 21-24
    W @Washington St(3-9) 27-7
    L @Oregon(7-5) 13-31
    W @Stanford(7-5) 17-10
    W @Oregon(9-4) 34-16
    L @Arizona State(6-5) 0-38
    W @Oregon State(1-10) 22-10
    L @Arizona State(6-5) 15-21

    The last PAC 10 team with a winning record that Utah beat on the road was Stanford, way back in 1996.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 18, 2011 6:22 p.m.

    @howie

    BYU does do that. Other than the bitter members of their former conferences who simply hated them because of the many years of beatdowns in almost every sport, and the lowclass segment of ute fandom, BYU has great mutual respect and goodwill with pretty much everyone they compete with.

    Your trollish post was was a new low, even for you.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 18, 2011 6:03 p.m.

    BYU 42
    Utah 10

    In the future,Cougars will reach a BCS bowl first.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    June 18, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    Of course, I am talking about BB not FB, regarding my previous post.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    June 18, 2011 5:52 p.m.

    What useless blather.

    If Utah wins anything in the PAC12 within 5 years, I'll be surprised but hey, if they win they win, and we'll see them in a big bowl.

    I expect BYU to do well as an independent. If they win, they'll get a big bowl.

    Comment about Utah being eligible for NC with a loss to BYU is lame. No one-loss PAC12 teams gets into the NC game.

    A 12-0 BYU team in the NC game? Maybe, but not likely. But they would get a good BCS bowl.

    Now lets see how often Utah and BYU are 12-0?

    As for the rivalry, I went to Washington. BYU beating any PAC12 team but Washington is a good thing. So naturally, I'd root for BYU over Utah regardless. However I've adopted BYU and that makes a BYU victory over Utah double sweet.

    But deep down, I couldn't care less if BYU never played Utah again. I don't like the tone of this rivalry - too much anti-Mormon bigotry from some parties.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 18, 2011 5:23 p.m.

    Howard, et al,

    BYU has been consistently good (last year notwithstanding) and we have every reasonable expectation to be consistently good this year and in the forseeable future.

    Utah has been inconsistently great, including last year, and I personally have every reason to expect that to continue into your new and exciting future.

    You may disbeleive and you may mock, but I would not trade the honor code and Sunday play for an AQ conference slot, and I would not trade your two BCS bowl triumphs for the loss to UNLV and your humiliation at the end of last year.

    And no, I am not talking about a loss to a highly talented Boise team. I am talking about the punk behavior before the game and THEN losing, thus proving that Boise was both better and classier than U.

  • rfrmac Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 18, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    I already don't feel the same about the game. I think it sounds good to say it will remain as important but I think it already has lost some importance to both schools. It is just another good football game. Nothing more. Sure I want the Utes to win but I am getting tired of the whole thing.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2011 4:35 p.m.

    "BYU will always have a national championship to boast about."
    You guys have anything on your resume from the modern era of football?
    I'm pretty sure they were still wearing leather helmets in 1984.

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    June 18, 2011 4:07 p.m.

    It seems as though these endless articles about the changes in the rivalry just bring out the worst on both sides without adding any new knowledge. Besides getting a lot of comments on your boards (with posters trying to belittle and top each other), is there any reason to keep on doing these articles?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 3:59 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    I would be happy for, and supportive of, any tradition adopted by Utah to demonstrate goodwill and respect for their athletic opponents.

    I just thought that given the missionary aspect of their program, BYU would be more interested in developing the goodwill and mutual respect of their athletic rivals.

    That's all...

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    June 18, 2011 3:33 p.m.

    At this point playing BYU does nothing to help Utah and only benefits BYU. As BYU becomes USU, the game will simply be played for nostalgia. Over the next 10 years, the casual fan in Utah will switch allegiances in order to see better competition.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    June 18, 2011 3:18 p.m.

    @ Cougar_Independence

    "Utah is in the pac12, but the bottom of the pac12 is where they will start and where they will be for the forseeable future."

    Whats with you Cougar fans making claims that Utah will be bottom feeders. The season hasn't even started yet. Nobody knows how Utah will do this year. Utah may suprise everyone and win the Pac 12 or go 6-6 this year. The point is you can't predict yours or anybody elses season. Remember 2008 when byu printed "The Quest For Perfection" t-shirts. Well, Utah was the team that was perfect!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 18, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    @Howard S.
    "Oh and btw, no one has explained yet how BYU will do better than their 46% record against the BCS when they move to independence."

    That's an easy question to answer. We could easily improve our percentage by playing Iowa State instead of Texas and Louisville instead of ND like U have done. Several of the non-AQ teams we will play this year (Hawaii, UCF, TCU) are much better than these BCS teams you are taking credit for beating.

    You make it sound like such a big deal to beat a BCS team. There's no glory in beating Iowa State and Washington State.

    Go out and beat USC, Texas, Okahoma, and ND on a regular basis and I will give you credit for those BCS team wins. (btw, BYU is undefeated against Texas and Oklahoma over the last 40 years.) I applaud your victory over Alabama, that was a big win just like BYU's win over Oklahoma in Cowboy Stadium.

    But you can't just say Utes % of wins over BCS teams is higher than BYU's without looking at the caliber of BCS teams played. You have to admit you've played some cupcake BCS teams the past fouryears.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 2:02 p.m.

    @ Howard S

    Utah is in the pac12, but the bottom of the pac12 is where they will start and where they will be for the forseeable future.

    Utah = Washington State Jr.

    Congrats on the pac12 invite Utah! Enjoy going 6-6 this year!

    BYU's 1 National Championship overrides anything Utah has ever done! That's the bottom line.

    Go Cougars!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 18, 2011 1:58 p.m.

    @howie

    "If BYU athletics is considered a missionary tool of the Church, why do they not make a greater effort to create a sense of goodwill and respect with their opponents?"

    That is laughably false.

    But let's pose a question to ute "fans" like yourself. Seeing as though the state of Utah is a samll state, with a small population, and it clamors for positive attention to attract tourists and business wouldn't it behove the stats flagship university to make a better attempt at creating a sense of goodwill and sportsmanship with their opponents?

    Or is mocking them with such statements as "girlieU" or picking fights at pre game bowl festivities, or mocking them after having a fieldgoal blocked, or any of the other absolutely lowclass behavior their fans and players engage in a sufficient representation of our state and the way to encourage visitors and business opportunities for our state?

    For example wouldn't it be a great showing of goodwill if before the kickoff of a game rather than corssing the field and taunting the players from the opposing team utah's player stood respectfully while the othe team finishes their pre game rituals?

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    @Howard S

    Yep, BYU will always have a national championship to boast about. Utah on the other hand? Never achieved the top prize.

    It's ok little brother, Utah can always be runner-up!

    Go Cougars!

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    June 18, 2011 1:50 p.m.

    I think the rivalry will actually (if possible) become more intense with the new changes. All those Yner fans boasting about getting the Utes on ESPN2 this season, just wait, in a few years the game will be on National Television on Fox and then you can thank us. GO UTES!

  • Jeff ls Farr West, 84404
    June 18, 2011 1:40 p.m.

    Personally I don't care what Utah does or who they play. I am a long time season ticket holder and I can think of 30 or 40 other teams I would rather see play than Utah. End the games now. Utah is just taking up schedule space.
    Jeff

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 18, 2011 1:24 p.m.

    @CougFaninTX
    Congrats on beating the doormats of the BCS to pad your stats!

    -----------

    SOS smack by a BYU fan?

    BYU's 1984 SOS was #104, congrats on beating the doormats to your NC. The first and ONLY NC team that did not play/win a single final top 25 team.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    June 18, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    KamUte 11:43

    "Soon BYU will simply become USU. We'll remind our kids that BYU was once a decent competitor."

    This may come as a surprise, KamUte, but utah is nothing more that a "Johnny Come Lately". Make sure your children know.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 1:08 p.m.

    @SLC BYU Fan

    Since you appear to have some insight or contacts into BYU athletics and Church hierarchy, let me pose this question.

    If BYU athletics is considered a missionary tool of the Church, why do they not make a greater effort to create a sense of goodwill and respect with their opponents?

    For example this week President Monson endeared himself and the Church to an audience at the University of Utah by singing the chorus of Utah Man.

    Wouldn't the missionary aspect of BYU athletics be advanced if some traditions of good will were adopted by the program?

    For example, wouldn't it be a great statement of goodwill if before each game the team stood respectfully as the BYU band played the opponents fight song?

    My guess is that the gesture of goodwill would soon be reciprocated by opponents, enhancing mutual respect and sportsmanship all around.

    That would certainly be a better gesture of goodwill than the Haka.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    June 18, 2011 12:57 p.m.

    @ Bluto

    The irony is, that when Utah busted the evil BCS they said, "See we told you the whole BCS Supriority was Phony".

    There is no doubt that Utah led the charge in trying to take down the BCS. Thats why Utah will forever be known as the "Original BCS Busters", meaning they were the first to kick down the doors for non-aq schools like Boise State and TCU to follow. As much as people hate the BCS and want it to be done away with. The truth is, the BCS isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Because there is too much money involved for the AQ schools to give up or share. "If you can't beat them, join them" and thats what Utah and TCU did. Utah will be better off in the Pac 12 and TCU will be better off in the Big East, then they would be fighting the BCS in the MWC like Boise State.

  • Brettski2024 Concord, CA
    June 18, 2011 12:24 p.m.

    ESPN smack!?! hahaha that is rich! Keep spinning things coug fans! Utah's recruiting is getting stronger and if it weren't for fluke plays BYU wouldn't have a win over Utah since the Cotton Bowl year.

    PAC12 will be exciting! Utah will have some growing pains but it beats being NON AQ anyday :)

  • Itchy Lehi, UT
    June 18, 2011 12:18 p.m.

    It's pretty sad that all that BYU fans have to fall back on is their 27 year old championship and the fact that they are on ESPN. In spite of these supposed advantages over Utah, I'm still much happier as a Ute fan knowing that my team has a MUCH brighter future with a BCS conference affiliation, recruiting advantages, $$$, and last but not least, the chance to actually play for a championship. Cougar fans, by all means keep on enjoying living in the past since your future isn't nearly so bright.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 12:14 p.m.

    @sammyg

    The "Doink" heard round the world was 12 years ago my friend, like most of BYU's historic wins... they are just that... historic... and not really relevant today.

    Oh and regarding your previous comment...

    "...you had a 2004 and 2008 season and nothing else."

    Correct me of I'm wrong but that's two undefeated seasons in the last decade for Utah (including wins over ranked teams), compared to one undefeated season for BYU 27 years ago (including wins over no ranked teams).

    I'll take Utah's superior on-field performance to BYU's any day...

    And I'll take the PAC 12 to independence any day...

    And so would the majority of the Collective, who still yearn for a Big 12 invite.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:47 a.m.

    Doink! It hit the goal post, it HIT the goal post... BYU WINS!

    yeah, we have our historic endings Howie but BYU has won games against big boys too... and we still got that precious NC trophy regardless to how U spin it.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    Did all of you see the article about how well the transition to the PAC-12 is going for the Utes....

    I hope the transition to the WCC is going just as well for the team in Provo. Or wait, I mean the transition to independence or I mean to the WAC.

    I give up, good luck for whatever the team in Provo is doing...

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    @MESOUTE: Read my point above about the debate between those in the senior LDS Church leadership and that will explain the debate around Sunday Play and BYU. There are those minorities of senior leaders that use this as a blackmail tool demanding a league-wide ban on Sunday play that will NEVER happen even though it is entirely possible to schedule around BYUs policy. There is a brinksmanship of wills between the BYU Athletic Department and its supporters in senior LDS Church leadership and those that have longed for keeping BYU in any future athletic alignments with Utah State (you saw the entire fiasco last August), or just give up high level intercollegiate athletics entirely. The Big-12 is VERY interested in BYU, and once they make up their minds to go back to 12 and feel they can get BYU without the political mess I described, it will happen. At the very least the move last August should demonstrate that such a minority isnt going to last, and all signs point to the Big-12 NOT having the same objections Pac-10 leaders had against BYU.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 18, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    Once the novelty wears off...You'll be back...like moths to a flame.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:50 a.m.

    @CougFaninTex: That worst case scenario is one that cant last and have a program that is dependent upon ESPN who will lose interest in renewing any deals. If the BYU program is to move forward and be the missionary tool the majority of the senior LDS Church leadership feels it should be, moving into a BCS-AQ league (like the Big-12) is the best scenario for BYU athletics. Independence in football over the long term will not work and will only hurt basketball and other sports. However a small minority of the senior leadership also feels strongly that BYU athletics takes away from the mission of state schools, most notably USU, and that missionary athletic missions are best served by LDS Student Athletes taking scholarships at other schools. I think readers need to realize that this more than anything should explain why BYU isnt in a BCS-AQ league to date, BYU having passed on a potential Big-12 invite when the league was formed back in 1993 for this very reason. There are a few at the top who wish for Provo to follow the Rexburg model.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 18, 2011 10:47 a.m.

    Once the novelty of a couple of years time of being team PAC-8.3 which gives Utah the benefit of the doubt over Colorado as not being the bottom conference rung while still firmly placing Arizona State at PAC-8.1 followed by Arizona at PAC-8.2. Insert the probability with almost certain likelihood that sooner and not later Whit and Chow will be moving on... it isn't hard to paint the image of another age of half apathy among the now present so called... Utah faithful... to the degree that interest in Utah sports will again decline and the rivalry will almost out of boredom for the now boastful but truly fickle Utah faithful become a welcome relieve from mediocrity. You can fool half of the the people all of the time...or you can fool all the people half of the time...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. When it does happen and it will...The fickle finger of fate will bring almost all of you back to the rivalry...Write it down!!!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:43 a.m.

    @CougFaninTX

    Comparing strength of schedule?

    Okay, how many ranked teams did BYU beat on their way to that much revered NC in 1984?

    Oh and btw, no one has explained yet how BYU will do better than their 46% record against the BCS when they move to independence.

  • R.Burgundy Cedar Hills, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    The Rivalry is dead and it is fine with me! What fun will it be to beat up on a bottom of the PAC 12 team every year and stomp them on National TV! BYU will soon be in the BIG 12 were the real football is played and then maybe the Big game will return.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    June 18, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    I see no reason to play Utah in the future. The game means much more to Utah than to the Cougars. I would much rather see teams from outside the area come to Provo.

  • Teddy Bear Las Vegas, NV
    June 18, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    @Bluto

    How many non-AQ teams have made it to a BCS bowl with one loss? Zero. As with any argument for a one-loss BCS buster, a lot would have to happen where such a team could back into one, but so far, history has not been kind to those types of possibilites. BSU last year was probably the most deserving one-loss non-AQ, yet they were shut out in the end. With so many variables needing to align in favor of the one-loss non-AQ teams, chances of it happening for a one-loss BYU are less than slim to none.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 18, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    @Howard S.
    "Lets look at the numbers...
    Bronco's record against the BCS is 47%
    Whit's record against the BCS is 69%"

    Let's look at the facts...
    Utah has played some of the weakest teams in the BCS
    2010 - U beat Pitt (3rd in Big East, but even 1st place UConn was not ranked in Top 25 this year) and Iowa State (11th in Big 12)
    2009 - U beat Louisville (7th in Big East)
    2008 - U beat Michigan (11th in Big 10) Toledo beat Michigan by more than U did this year.
    2007 - U beat Louisville (6th in Big East)

    Congrats on beating the doormats of the BCS to pad your stats!

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:23 a.m.

    Bottom line here -- with a "real" BCS conference schedule and direct access to the Rose Bowl, the Utes no longer need that game every year against the team in Provo. The team in Provo, however, badly needs Utah to avoid a schedule packed with WAC and div. II teams.

    If Utah bails on the Holy War, the whole independence delusion will come crashing down in Utah County and a certain team will go crying back to the MWC with its kitty tail between its legs.

  • Cali Coug Visalia, CA
    June 18, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    Three cheers for the PAC 10.2!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:15 a.m.

    @sammyg

    "...7-47 against TCU, 3-28 against ND, and 3-26 against BSU."
    ***************

    Must make losing to Utah last year all that more painful.

    It's blocked.... It's blocked.... It's blocked.... Utah wins... Utah wins... Utah wins...

    Yeah baby...

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    June 18, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    Bulto, pray tell which team owns the series by 20 plus games? Which team has the better overall winning percentage for all games played? Which team has one of the best bowl winning percentages in the county and which team has one of the absolute worst bowl records in the country? Which team has gone undefeated twice in the last 10 years? Which team was deemed worthy of an invite to a major conference and which one wasnt? I think the evidence is pretty clear on who the dominate team in Utah is at this juncture.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 18, 2011 10:00 a.m.

    @Howard S.

    "We conclude what we have always known... BYU does great against weak to mediocre opposition, and pathetically against good teams."

    and as recently as last year Utah has the same problems... 7-47 against TCU, 3-28 against ND, and 3-26 against BSU.

    Your point being? Yep, you had a 2004 and 2008 season and nothing else.

    No legacy and more importantly ZERO media coverage for this year. Your PAC 10.2 conference really stuck it to you this inaugaral season.

    Yippee for AM radio coverage!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    @mussigaround

    "When the BcS visitor has to rely on their gracious host to give them their only chance to play on ESPN...
    ************

    I'm looking forward to BYU graciously exposing their 46% winning record against BCS teams on ESPN.

    Should be fun...

  • MESOUTE Karchaj, A.V.
    June 18, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    @Bluto

    Wow, wow! You start off above with a very good point regarding some very obnoxious Utah fans having forgotten their roots as a non AQ BCS buster and remind us to never forget where we came from. But after that you stated that a 1 loss, and perhaps 2 loss BYU team would still garner a likely BCS bid.

    Do you really believe that? It really only lessens any credibility that you may have had in a prior more convincing statements. And no, BYU will not be getting a BIG 12 invite. Sunday play to begin with, and the BIG 12 is not the WCC, or the WAC for that matter. They will not allow any school to divide their sports to avoid Sunday play and they will not acquiesce to BYU's petition to curb Sunday play. And please let's stop already with the national championship talk BYU. You know how it was won. Or do you? I fear that no, revisionist history has created a new 1984 myth. BYU needs Utah much more than Utah needs BYU. BYU may have an ESPN deal by vacating Boise's slot, but they still have Novembers withough quality opponents.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    @Rock of the Marne

    Funny....

    Not only do we not see ESPN or any other National Network televising Minor League Salt Lake Bees games, we also don't see any Major Network (ESPN/ABC) televising Utah Ute games either, even when playing USC.

    However, we do indeed see ESPN televising not only Major League Baseball but BYU as well, 7-8-9 times!

    It's pretty clear which of the Utah College Teams are considered Major and which is considered Minor by ESPN Executives, conference affiliation, notwithstanding.

    Those same ESPN Executives who actually "Choose" which games ESPN will telecast. Utah and Wazzu were the only Pac-10.2 schools "Not" to be chosen by ESPN for telecasts..

    As Lee Corso of ESPN stated last year at Utah's Gameday debacle with TCU,

    Speaking of RES, Utah etc. "This place is "Almost" as nice as Provo".

    So, all this bluster by Ute fans is contrived and in their own minds, those in the know, not only know, but have stated on many, many occasions, which is The Major program in the state of Utah.

    BYU

    Utah claiming Major status over BYU, is as laughable as Indiana claiming Major status over Notre Dame.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:35 a.m.

    @Grad / Y Dad

    ".. it follows that your record against non-AQ foes must be worse than ours."
    *********

    Interesting point YGYD.

    Lets look at the numbers...

    Bronco's record against the BCS is 47%
    Whit's record against the BCS is 69%

    Bronco's record against the non-BCS is 80%
    Whit's record against the non-BCS is 75%

    We conclude what we have always known... BYU does great against weak to mediocre opposition, and pathetically against good teams.

    Makes you wonder how they expect to excel against upgraded independent schedules.

    I think we can also conclude that Whit has gained more from a superior BCS record than Bronco has gained from a better non-BCS record.

    Thanks for asking.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    Cougar_Independence

    How pathetic is it that a fanbase must pin the legitimacy of their program on a 27 year old NC awarded to their grandfathers?

    Earn your own legitimacy... earn your own way to a nationally prominent conference.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    June 18, 2011 9:01 a.m.

    Sure it feels different. One team was called up to the big leagues and one was left behind in the mid major minors; simple as that. The game from now on will be kind of like when the Major League teams occasionally throw a bone to their minor league affiliates and play a game against them. BYU should be grateful as without Utah (the only AQ team) on their home schedule all they would have is New Mexico State et. al. . Go Utes

  • CheeseFries SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 18, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    @Y Grad,

    While you are waiting to see if Utah or BYU makes it to a BCS bowl first, I'm going to wait and see who gets elected US President first: Obama or Huntsman.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 18, 2011 8:45 a.m.

    Howard S, I'll take your word for it. Now considering that during the two current coaches tenure, their respective records are very, very similar, and assuming your record against BCS foes is better than ours...

    ... it follows that your record against non-AQ foes must be worse than ours.

    Could I then infer that BYU beats the teams it is supposed to and half the teams it isn't supposed to, while the team on the hill beats the teams it isn't supposed to, and loses to the teams it isn't supposed to?

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 18, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    Funny how instate recruits arn't buying into the "indy" delusion. Last years Ute pick-ups speak for themselves.... and just look at how this years class is shaping up....ouch.

    Bottom line, most athletes want to play for something beyond religion.

  • La Tortuga Murray, UT
    June 18, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    @SLC BYU Fan: This U fan absolutely agrees with you. I have nothing against USU, but it is nonsense to play them instead of BYU. The Utah/BYU game simply generates too much interest/money for both sides to simply go away. Plus, all the childish bickering aside I think we all have to admit that they have been some incredibly exciting games. Both sides want to feign indifference for the other, but I think the state would miss the games if they didn't happen. Even people that I speak to around the country (with zero connection to the state) know about the rivalry and that it is a huge game. The state doesn't have many of these kinds of nationally recognized events...

    All this being said, I do think the rivalry is going to cool some over the next decade. I can already see the significance of the game starting to diminish amongst U fans (most of the hype is about USC, ASU, Rose Bowl chances) and would assume the same on the Y side in terms of their big games.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    June 18, 2011 8:06 a.m.

    Utah fans need to start focusing on bigger goals & more important games, and so getting the game done and over with in September is a good thing.

    Personally, I think with only 3 non-conference games the Utes should alternate playing BYU & USU and broaden their exposure to other areas of the nation.

    Utah & BYU need to do what's best for themselves. Congratulations to BYU for their accomplishments in getting exposure. In that regard Tom Holmoe has done a great job.

    Utah has achieved a major milestone in getting entry into the PAC. Now they need to focus on what their next steps are, which involve focusing on winning PAC games and diversifying their own exposure for the remaining 3 games.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    @socalute

    BCS Conference Team should be happy BYU gives them a chance to play on ESPN one time each season.

    What TV channel is the USC game on again? Versus?

    That's embarrassing.

    Go Cougars and Go ESPN!

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 8:02 a.m.

    @Kamyewt

    "We'll remind our kids that BYU was once a decent competitor."

    And I'll remind my kids that Utah used to have a men's basketball team.

    And I'll also remind them that if they want to see the only college football national Championship trophy in the state of Utah, they can drive to Provo to see it, not to SLC.

    Go Cougars!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2011 7:59 a.m.

    @Teddy Bear

    BYU with 1 or possibly 2 losses is still a good bet for a BCS game.

    as far as Utah and the Rose Bowl?
    see Arizona.....33 years and still waiting.

    "I know Arizona, Arizona is a good friend on mine, believe me Utah, you are no Arizona."

    Remember U fans, the Pac 10.2 is an "AQ as a League".
    Utah individually, is not AQ.

    Remember, that's one slot out of 12 teams. One.

    BYU's path is much more likely than the U's. Regardless, the BCS will be obsolete in short order.
    see US Dept. of Justice.

    Then where will Utah derive it's boastfullness? Especially as a perpetual doormat?

    If BYU is hovering around Top-10 they'll get an at large, long before Utah, with a comparable record and ranking.

    ask ESPN

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 18, 2011 7:57 a.m.

    @Howard S

    Still no national championship for Utah, so you're still not invited to the adults table. Get a national title then you can talk.

    Go Cougars!

  • mtseatss Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 18, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    @ SLC BYU: Who said anything about Utah fans wanting to play Utah State? Politics are no less powerful than the money you use to justify the continuation of this game. It will be the politics of Logan in the Utah State capitol that forces Utah back to Logan which leaves Utah with only one slot for an out of state non-conference game. In my view, that stinks. BYU to the BIG 12 may happen, but for now it is just wishful thinking and speculation on the part of Cougar fans as well as the local media. Like it or not, my views are shared by an overwhelming majority of Utah fans. I am one Utah fan that believes Utah's first year in the PAC 12 will be a year of adaptation and prove to be very difficult. Dealing with BYU is simply an unwanted and unecessary nuisance.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2011 7:42 a.m.

    BYU should not bother playing Utah anymore.

    There is no value in beating them, anymore than there would be value beating other "So Called BCS" schools.

    You know, teams like, Baylor, Iowa State, Louisville, UConn, Rutgers, Wake Forrest, Vanderbilt, South Florida, Washington State, Northwestern, Indiana etc..

    You see, when one has to derive all of it's self worth by "Belonging" to a "Self Annointed" superior league, then things like History, Tradition, Legacy and Brand don't matter.

    It's simply a phony construct (BCS) and a cheap back door approach to a "Contrived Legitimacy".

    Nobody buys it anymore.

    The irony is, that when Utah busted the evil BCS they said, "See we told you the whole BCS Supriority was Phony".

    It's amazing just how fast Utah and her fans adopted the Snobbish Elitist Attitude.

    It goes to show how insecure Utah really is with their own History. A program which could not win Conference Championships in the WAC or MWC, will certainly soon be relegated to Bottomfeeder Status in the Pac 10.2

    BYU, on the other hand, has a Brand worthy of ESPN telecasts and their own security of History with Heisman, Outlands, National Championship etc.

    Utah needs the "Contrived Comfort".

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 18, 2011 7:39 a.m.

    @SLC BYU Fan
    "Provo could turn into Rexburg by 2020 with none or drastically curtailed athletics."

    There is no chance of this happening. If you are a BYU Fan, you're a very pessimistic one. You sound more like a Ute fan who has changed his name to hide his motive.

    Worse case scenario, you will see a schedule that looks like 2011's schedule - front end loaded with high caliber teams and MWC / WAC teams in the second half of the schedule.

    In the MWC, we typically played two AQ teams each regular season. In a rush to put together a schedule for 2011 we play four AQ teams plus TCU. We also play two decent non-AQ teams in UCF and Hawaii and our traditional game against USU. That's eight good / expected games with only four cupcakes. This is a much better schedule than we had in the MWC and comprable to most AQ teams.

    However, I think there's some truth in the rumors that BYU is negotiating with top tier schools and the schedule will continue to get better each year. Independence is looking much better than I ever thought possible. Go Cougs!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    June 18, 2011 7:33 a.m.

    The media will try amd make this the greatest game ever played in the history of the state every year. After all, they're in the business of "selling sports" so that's their motivation. It isn't.

    Utah will be bottom feeders in the PAC 12 and will occasionally beat BYU. Big deal. Utah will look to drop them, just like they did USU from basketball, because without being in the same confereence the Utes need to win all 3 of the non-conference games to have any chance of beeing a .500 team.

    And while KamUte tells his kids that BYU was "once a decent competitor" BYU fans will be telling theirs that "Utah used to think they were good after they won 2 BHCS games, but they've never come close to winning a national championship. Like the Arizona schools, they decided they wanted to be a very little fish in a bigger pond. They got their wish and slipped into obscurity."

  • PistonHonda Houston, TX
    June 18, 2011 6:50 a.m.

    Rest assured, if Utah loses to BYU, they will definitely not be playing for a national championship. But, keep dreaming Teddy Bear. If Utah doesn't win the Pac South this year, then their future looks pretty dismal. Washington State has proven that even the worst team in the league can occasionally win the conference, so Utah should make a run at it every decade. However, Utah this year plays the easiest Pac schedule that they will possibly ever have (no Stanford, no Oregon, and USC non-eligible for the championship). If Utah doesn't make it happen this year, that is a terrible omen for Ute fans. Considering the way Utah played against SDSU, BYU, ND, BSU, and TCU last year, Utah has a ridiculous amount of improvement to even seriously consider playing for the NC.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    June 18, 2011 6:25 a.m.

    From this point on, Utah gains little (other than tv exposure, but that will change after the new contract takes effect - maybe) from playing BYU. BYU could use this slot to schedule a higher profile BCS team (not trying to knock Utah, but I believe the Utah market is already aware of BYU) for a home and home. I say play every 3 to 4 years, but that's it. The rivalry can take a break - for the benefit of both teams and their fans.

    I do believe that fans from both teams (many of them, not all of them) could end us supporting each other should we stop playing each other. Utah is a huge football state.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    June 18, 2011 4:51 a.m.

    Cougs4life, you should thank Utah for throwing your team a bone in thus allowing for at 1 BCS team on their home schedule; sans Utah it would have to be about weakest home schedule in Div. 1 football ala the Sun Belt Conference; you're welcome.

    For traditions sake and an opportunity to increase the 20 game head to head lead Utah has in football, I support the continuation of the rivalry.

  • nunya sacramento, ca
    June 18, 2011 4:00 a.m.

    BYU does not benefit at all from playing utah. just how it is when a stronger team (byu) plays a weaker opponent (yoots). Win or lose, byu does not benefit...yoota on the other hand would look like the hero if they were to win....but if they lose...well, they will say it's okay because they're suppose to. Sad really.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2011 1:05 a.m.

    Nope, it is the same like it has in past. I don't care if yewta is a BcS AQ. Team up north faces team down south whatever you want to call it. So, let relax and have a nice summer only if it gets warmer soon.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    June 18, 2011 12:41 a.m.

    When the BcS visitor has to rely on their gracious host to give them their only chance to play on ESPN, it's pretty clear which team has the national cachet, and which team is the pretender.

    Pretended greatness by association, is like eating in the same restaurant as a celebrity. It may make you feel special and give you something to brag about to your friends, but it doesn't make you a celebrity.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    June 17, 2011 11:54 p.m.

    I love how Holmoe referred to the scheduling issue as "a Pac-10 thing." Classic.

    The BCS TUN should be happy that we allow them to have a game on national tv on their schedule every year.

    Can't wait for September...

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:43 p.m.

    Soon BYU will simply become USU. We'll remind our kids that BYU was once a decent competitor.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:39 p.m.

    @mtseatss: Why would anyone in the Crimson Club want to play Utah State in Logan instead of BYU? That makes about as much sense in precious non-league game scheduling logic, as playing an in-state high school team on the road. As for scheduling Utah State, what most likely will evolve in the next couple of years is them trading pay-day games with Utah and BYU strictly in Salt lake City and Provo for a mere bus trip rather than going back to Auburn, Oklahoma or Clemson as has been the case in the past. BYU is scheduled to pay Utah State $500,000 each of the next 2 seasons to come to Provo to be kicked around. Both Tom Holmoe and Chris Hill are no longer willing to send their football teams to Logan to prop up the attendance, but would rather open up the check-book to get the Aggies as one of their annual punching bag games. BYU/Utah is a much better national TV cross-league game and could get VERY fun should the Big-12 invite BYU in the next couple of years. Hence the motive for both ADs.

  • West Ham Fan Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:26 p.m.

    I've always been a Y fan. Without the conference rivalry, I almost feel like I have two teams to support. I can support BYU because it represents the religion I love and I can support Utah because it represents the state I love. Regardless of my love for BYU, I would LOVE to see Utah humiliate Colorado. I think THAT'S a rivalry the whole state can get behind!

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:20 p.m.

    What could put the best light on this rivalry is for BYU to be invited to the Big-12, something that will likely come sooner than later for the Cougars. At that point Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott will be forced to sit down with his Big-12 counterpart Dan Beebe and figure out the best plan for the game since the SEC/ACC have season ending rivalries in cross-over territory in Georgia, Florida and South Carolina. It wasnt until 1969 that the BYU/Utah game became the season ending fixture that it has becomeironically just as Utah was about to begin its 20 year swoon of not being competitive with BYU. If BYU is forced to stay independent however, I dont give the rivalry much of a future since interest in BYU will wane as they will only be able to get a limited number of October games from other BCS leagues and November games will be strictly limited to perhaps Notre Dame and a slate of the dregs of FBS in the WAC, Sun-Belt or worse yet FCS schools. Provo could turn into Rexburg by 2020 with none or drastically curtailed athletics.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:55 p.m.

    @Y Grad / Y Dad

    "We ARE grateful to have BCS quality teams on the schedule each year - Texas, ND, etc."
    ************

    It seems odd that the Collective would express such gratitude, since BYU only has a 46% winning record against BCS teams.

    It's true... do the research.

  • SoCalTrueBlue San Diego, CA
    June 17, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    The "different feel" to the BYU-Utah rivalry is that in basketball it is no longer a question of who will win but rather how much will BYU win by.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 17, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    @SoCalUtahFan
    BCS Conference Team should be happy they get to play on ESPN one time each season.

    @Teddy Bear
    A loss to BYU may not take you out of contention for a BCS bowl, but a one loss Utah will not play for the NC. A one loss team out of the SEC, BIG10, ND, Texas or USC may have chance to play for the NC, but not the Utes. Sorry. Once USC gets off probation, the probability of Utah going to a BCS bowl is slim. USC will win the South 9 times out of 10.

    I was at BYU in the late 80's. The rivalry wasn't that big of a deal then, because one team dominated for nearly 20 years. The reason the rivalry has heated up now is because of the nearly equal record against each other since 1990 and the number of close finishes where the game wasn't decided until the final series or even final play (like the last two years).

    It will be tough to keep the rivalry intact. PAC12 won't let Utah play in late season, and BYU will have plenty of offers to play more storied teams in September before conference play.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    June 17, 2011 10:31 p.m.

    BYU > Utah

  • mtseatss Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 17, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    While I have all the respect in the world for Dr. Hill, I must disagree with his assertion that this rivalry is important to Utah fans. The overwhelming majority of fellow Crimson Club members and other Utah fans with whom I associate place a far greater value on our 3 non-conference games than that of playing BYU every year. If Utah were to play Utah State that leaves only one slot for a non-PAC 12 out of state team. Being part of the PAC-12 is exciting, but as a long time Crimson Club member, I view these 3 games as a rare and precious commodity for the opportunity and benefit of Utah fans to see teams that previously would not have entertained a trip to Salt Lake City to play a former non-AQ team.

    I would submit that the majority of those that feel differently are those that stand to benefit monetarily - most prominently, the local media.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    June 17, 2011 9:04 p.m.

    We ARE grateful to have BCS quality teams on the schedule each year - Texas, ND, etc. We're also happy to give Utah some TV exposure next year! U are welcome.

    Seriously, Ted makes a good point, but I think we can deal with the disadvantage. Right now, we look forward to regaining scoreboard, then racing to see who gets first to the BCS bowl in this brave new world.

  • Teddy Bear Las Vegas, NV
    June 17, 2011 8:57 p.m.

    Fact of the matter is if BYU loses, the season is all but lost in terms of BCS bowl hopes. If Utah loses, they still have a legitimate opportunity at the Rose bowl and can still possibly play for a national championship. Advantage Utah.

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    June 17, 2011 8:45 p.m.

    non-BCS TDS should be happy that they get a BCS-conference team on their schedule every year.