Comments about ‘Readers' forum: Utah's liquor law’

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Published: Friday, June 17 2011 12:00 a.m. MDT

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JustGordon
Cottonwood Heights, UT

All I can say is, "Wow!" What part of fair, practical and reasonable don't you get? If all eating establishments followed your advice, we all would have only fast food choices and Denny's would still be open for special occasions.

botdriver
Midvale, UT

Maybe I can answer that for you, 1. Since alcohol production produces jobs, those people keep working 2. By those people working they pay taxes, and feed their families, because it's called a job. 3. Then those people that work in the liquor stores, bars or restaurants they sell alcohol, it's produces tax revenue for the state. Since jobs are hard to come by, you know the economy. These people pay taxes, it takes money to run things. 4. They need to feed their families to, if you don't mind if they try to feed their families. Well, maybe not like you living the life of luxury, But if you want the alcohol stores shut down, that's fine, I'm sure that the legislators could raise property taxes up 20%, and and another 10% on everything else, like cars, food, electronic's, you name it, they'll find something to tax.

BUT

I think the best thing, if you are Mormon, just stay out of other peoples indulgence, If you are Mormon, leave your morals and convictions to yourself, and leave their rights and privileges alone.

Practice your religion, that is your right, and privilege.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

More questions:

Why does a church (via a puppet legislature) have any business dictitating what adults are able to consume.

Why does a non-drinker have any business peeping into another's personal drinking habits?

Why don't busy bodies mind their own business?

Esquire
Springville, UT

Are you saying that if a restaurant owner doesn't like it here, they should just leave? Yeoweee!

I thought people here liked free enterprise and less government influence in business. But this issue proves it ain't so....

Grover
Salt Lake City, UT

Helen, there seems to be a disconnect in your logic. You ask questions that one would normally expect of a Utah county non-drinker, but when we compare your opinion with that of the mayor of your fair city, there is conflict. The Mayor recently pleaded with the Liquor Control Commission not to close the liquor in Provo as he cited the severe economic harm that would be done to the community by closing the store.

There are only two choices here Helen: 1. Close the store and all liquor establishments in Utah county and raise your taxes to compensate for the shortfall. 2. Let the status quo remain just that and you go back to your knitting.

Rand
FLAGSTAFF, AZ

Helen,
Your comments suggest that you live in an insular world and don't have many conversations with people outside your religion. Otherwise the answers to several of your questions would be clear.

Excellent questions, RanchHand, here are a few more:

1. What gives you the right to force your religious views upon anyone?

2. Do you understand that most adults responsibly consume alcohol?

3. Would you support religious edicts passed down through government if they came from another religion? If not, can you now understand why many residents of Utah tire of this?

4. Do you understand that Utah is becoming a more diverse place, and that eventually it will be difficult to keep these theocratic laws on the books?

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "RanchHand | 6:20 a.m." does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?

JustinSLC
Salt Lake City, UT

I'm a lifelong, sixth-generation resident of Utah. I'm not a member of any religion. I want to be able to go out with a few of my friends, to a local restaurant or pub, sit around a table, and order the same beverage options I can get in Boise, Denver, Jackson, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, and yes, Reno or Las Vegas. I would like to buy a bottle of wine at the grocery store, or Costco, like I can in every state surrounding Utah. I'd like to feel like I'm not being forced to live under somebody else's religious-based morality every time I feel like going out somewhere with a few friends. I'd like to walk into a bar without having my ID scanned into a state database.

This attitude of "This is our state and you'll live by our rules", which is held by many in the cultural majority of Utah, will eventually be what causes me to leave this state. There is no room, or acceptance, for anybody who thinks or lives differently.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

RedShirt said: " does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?

Different churches... same "religious zealots."

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

No one is willing to list the "cost" of liquor consumption to the State. They cite the "profits" made by selling liquor, but they ignore the welfare payments made because of liquor. They ignore the lost tax revenue when people loose their jobs because of liquor. The ignore the costs to feed and clothe and house broken families because of liquor.

If the numbers were published, I'm sure that we would all see that the State pays out much more to pay for the results of drinking than it receives in profits from the sale of liquor.

Last year the State levied a tax on tobacco, listing as the reason the high cost to the State of medical and welfare costs that result from smoking.

Perhaps it's time that the State did the same for all forms of alcohol. Let those who consume it pay all associated costs related to it.

Al
Vernal, UT

botdriver,
"I think the best thing, if you are Mormon, just stay out of other peoples indulgence, If you are Mormon, leave your morals and convictions to yourself, and leave their rights and privileges alone."

Does that hold true only for Mormons? Couldn't that also be true for say........liberals?

If you are a liberal, just stay out of other people's health care. If you are liberal just keep your hands out of other people's pockets. If you are liberal leave your lack of morals and convictions to yourself, and leave other people's rights and privileges alone."

Also, you didn't factor in the financial benefits of the results of your beloved alcohol cunsumption. I'm sure that all the money paid for the divorses and family break-ups caused by alcohol helps the economy. I'm sure that the money spent at medical facilities due to alcohol consumption also helps the economy. All that money spent at mortuaries because of alcohol related deaths must help.

I have many friends and loved ones who have suffered greatly because of alcohol. The latest was a cousin who died from alcohol poisoning. But, you'll find a way to blame the Mormons for that, too.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

@Mike Richards;

Do you support an Ice Cream tax and a Soda tax as well as a Tobacco Tax?

These items "cost" every bit as much to our society as Tobacco does. Honest.

isrred
Logan, UT

"Let those who consume it pay all associated costs related to it."

Sure, raise the taxes on alcohol under this pretense as long as you're willing to also levy/raise a tax on the following to cover the "negative social ills" they cause:
-Soda and candy
-Ice cream
-Fast Food
-Families with children that put a strain on the education system
etc etc etc

Once you start taxing "vices" you must tax pretty much everything under that same logic. And here I thought the people of this state were AGAINST taxation...

Rand
FLAGSTAFF, AZ

"does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?"

Excusing the bad behavior of one group by pointing out the same bad behavior in other groups is poor justification.

BSU
Lehi, UT

All I know is that when my wife moved here from Pittsburgh she commented about two things. One, that she had never seen beer or any alcohol for sale in stores. The other was that everyone drives too fast here in Utah.

Pittsburgh has very low death by automobile accident rates, Utah also has low rates. One other thing about Pittsburgh, besides that life is more important than tourist dollars, is that people can't blame EVERYTHING on the Mormons. It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry.

Ron Burgundy
Ogden, UT

To BSU,

Did you marry an amish girl?

Rand
FLAGSTAFF, AZ

"It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry."

Huh? About 2/3 of the population is LDS. The state legislature is 90% LDS and something like 75% Republican. If you are conservative, it is one of the easiest states to get something done because you can just steamroll any opposition.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Rand | 11:32 a.m. June 17, 2011
FLAGSTAFF, AZ
"It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry."

Huh? About 2/3 of the population is LDS. The state legislature is 90% LDS and something like 75% Republican. If you are conservative, it is one of the easiest states to get something done because you can just steamroll any opposition.

==========

It's actually about 60% - with less than half of that being "Active".
But your percentages in regards to the State Legislature is correct.

It's a perfect example of any other Totalitarian State - when the minority controls the majority.

botdriver
Midvale, UT

Hey, umm Al is it, I hope you can understand this and well, I am not much of a drinker, maybe every so often, every couple of months I'll by a 12 pack of Coors 3.2% soda pop, because that's what it is to me, but I will indulge you. The reason I hammer on the Mormon faith is that 57% of Utah is Mormon, and the MAJORITY of legislators are MORMON, I have no representation here, but I must do with what I have, but I as a infidel, since I have no care to go to church, because I don't need him as a crutch, do not believe in infringing on any peoples rights, like you and the rest of the Mormon's in this state like to do. Since you like the communist lifestyle, why don't you move to China, then you can wish you could practice your religion, because you can't it's illegal, so since this is the United States you have the privilege to pray, and those who drink have the privilege to drink. Oh, and thank your veterans, like me who served to keep that right.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "botdriver | 12:20 p.m." so what you are saying is that the majority should give up their representation and bow to the desires of the minority.

I don't know about you, but whenever I hear about the the majority having to do what the minority wants, it never ends well for the minority.

Last I checked we area a representative democracy, which means that the majority does in fact rule.

If you don't loke it in Utah, there is nothing forcing you to stay here. If you don't like the laws, there is nothing preventing you from running for office and working to change the laws yourself.

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