Quantcast
Opinion

Readers' forum: Utah's liquor law

Comments

Return To Article
  • dave Park City, UT
    June 19, 2011 8:41 p.m.

    Mike Richards | 5:01 p.m. June 19, 2011
    South Jordan, Utah

    And the net result of these dry counties and onerous laws is???

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 19, 2011 5:01 p.m.

    Alabama has 6 "dry" counties.

    About half of Arkansas counties are "dry".

    Connecticut has 1 "dry" town in the state.

    Florida has 5 "dry" counties".

    Kansas has 29 counties that prohibit the sale of liquor by the drink.

    Kentucky as 43 "dry" counties.

    Massachusetts has 13 "dry" towns.

    Nevada has 1 "dry" city.

    New Jersey has at least 8 "dry" cities.

    New York has 10 "dry" cities.

    North Carolina has 1 "dry" county.

    Texas has 26 "dry" counties.

    Utah has NO "dry" counties and NO "dry" cities, yet people complain because they can't buy liquor at the corner market.

    People try to tell us that because people using cell phone have caused accidents and that because the misuse of prescriptions have cause fatalities, that alcohol should be allowed. What kind of nonsense is that? Every person who drinks water will eventually die. Should we ban the drinking of water?

    I'm thinking that too many of the posters first tried the "beverage" before writing and that the "beverage" impaired their ability to think.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    June 19, 2011 11:25 a.m.

    @atl134

    Prescription drugs vs Alcohol...."One is people getting themselves killed, the other can involve killing other people.

    Prescription drug use also involves killing other people. Most prescription drugs that are being abused have warning labels that say something like this....Don't Drive or Operated Heavy Machinery While Using This Medication. Don't Mix with Alcohol.

    According to the 2006 Nation Survey on Drug Use and Health, an estimated 10.2 million people admit to driving under the influence of drugs. It is important that car accidents caused by drugged driving due to not only illegal substances but prescription and non-prescription over-the-counter medications are stopped and that the dangers of this kind of DUI are taken seriously.

    Prescription Drugs are capable of killing other people....so atl134....you are wrong.

    Also....University of Utah psychologists have published a study showing that motorists who talk on handheld or hands-free cellular phones are as impaired as drunken drivers. June 29, 2006

    Also....RAC Foundation director Stephen Glaister said the research "clearly shows that a motorist who is texting is significantly more impaired than a motorist at the legal limit for alcohol."

    Perhaps you should not perpetuate false assumptions!

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    June 18, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    Well City Creek Mall (a church owning a mall?!) have any business that serves alcohol?

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:08 p.m.

    I think what non drinkers do not understand some of the these laws are just plain stupid.

    What is the point of the of a Zion curtain really? It isn't about limiting consumption it is about control. If a legislator is getting complaints from parents about their kids seeing drinks being mixed then they should tell them not to patronize the business any more. If a business is losing customers then they will adapt if they want to survive.

    Why should a government tell a restaurant that seventy percent of its sales must come from food and only thirty percent comes from alcohol? Would you like it if you owned a business and the government told you can only sell so much of your product?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 8:06 p.m.

    "Facts - Utah deaths due to Perscriptions Drugs = 435 per year. While Drunk driving runs about 37 per year. One is specifically listed in the Word of Wisdom given in 1833, but the far more dangerous one is not."

    One is people getting themselves killed, the other can involve killing other people. That's a key difference.

    "Modern medicines and Cell phones and texting weren't around in 1833 - but they are FAR more deadly than alcohol."

    In a vehicle maybe (I don't know the stats) but alcohol is way deadlier overall.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    Just because the 21st amendment allows for sale of alcohol doesn't mean it can't be regulated properly to make sure it goes into the right hands and is safe....wait a minute...

    Just because the 2nd amendment allows for gun ownership doesn't mean it can't be regulated properly to make sure they go into the right hands and is safe.

  • Rand FLAGSTAFF, AZ
    June 17, 2011 5:57 p.m.

    procuradorfiscal,

    "Second, why do liberals believe it's OK to control my cell phone use, but not my alcohol use?"

    Bad logic. Control of dangerous alcohol use is already in effect and supported by nearly everyone. Its called DUI and public intoxication laws. No one wants to ban your phone outright, which is what Utah liquor laws are dancing around.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 17, 2011 5:17 p.m.

    Thanks RanchHand.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    It almost makes me want to give up. You ask a supporter of the laws what the laws specifically do and they have no clue. They support something they know absolutely nothing about.

    There is not one person that is willing to give specific examples as to how these laws make this a safer place. All they do is say that they can pass the laws and neener neener neener to you... That is the height of ignorant arrogance. It is the same attitude slave owners had.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 17, 2011 2:21 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal | 1:51 p.m." Al Gore would have one if we were a democracy. However, we are a republic, which means that the US is more like 50 small countries that are joined together. Al Gore had to win the election in each of the 50 states.

    That is the result of a representative democracy.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    June 17, 2011 2:19 p.m.

    Re: "Cell phones and texting . . . are FAR more deadly than alcohol."

    First off, that's a demonstrably false statement.

    Second, why do liberals believe it's OK to control my cell phone use, but not my alcohol use?

    To quote -- "Hypocrites? Yes"

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 17, 2011 1:51 p.m.

    Facts - Utah deaths due to Perscriptions Drugs = 435 per year. While Drunk driving runs about 37 per year. One is specifically listed in the Word of Wisdom given in 1833, but the far more dangerous one is not.

    Modern medicines and Cell phones and texting weren't around in 1833 - but they are FAR more deadly than alcohol.

    The Utah State legislature reminds me of the Pharisees, who want everyone's strict adhereance to the Letter of the law, while ignoring the spirit of the law.

    Hypocrites? Yes.

    And RedShirt - The "If you don't like it, leave it" arguement is just plain childish. BTW - If the Majority rules - then Al Gore should have been the President of the United States.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 17, 2011 12:53 p.m.

    To "botdriver | 12:20 p.m." so what you are saying is that the majority should give up their representation and bow to the desires of the minority.

    I don't know about you, but whenever I hear about the the majority having to do what the minority wants, it never ends well for the minority.

    Last I checked we area a representative democracy, which means that the majority does in fact rule.

    If you don't loke it in Utah, there is nothing forcing you to stay here. If you don't like the laws, there is nothing preventing you from running for office and working to change the laws yourself.

  • botdriver Midvale, UT
    June 17, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Hey, umm Al is it, I hope you can understand this and well, I am not much of a drinker, maybe every so often, every couple of months I'll by a 12 pack of Coors 3.2% soda pop, because that's what it is to me, but I will indulge you. The reason I hammer on the Mormon faith is that 57% of Utah is Mormon, and the MAJORITY of legislators are MORMON, I have no representation here, but I must do with what I have, but I as a infidel, since I have no care to go to church, because I don't need him as a crutch, do not believe in infringing on any peoples rights, like you and the rest of the Mormon's in this state like to do. Since you like the communist lifestyle, why don't you move to China, then you can wish you could practice your religion, because you can't it's illegal, so since this is the United States you have the privilege to pray, and those who drink have the privilege to drink. Oh, and thank your veterans, like me who served to keep that right.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 17, 2011 12:01 p.m.

    Rand | 11:32 a.m. June 17, 2011
    FLAGSTAFF, AZ
    "It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry."

    Huh? About 2/3 of the population is LDS. The state legislature is 90% LDS and something like 75% Republican. If you are conservative, it is one of the easiest states to get something done because you can just steamroll any opposition.

    ==========

    It's actually about 60% - with less than half of that being "Active".
    But your percentages in regards to the State Legislature is correct.

    It's a perfect example of any other Totalitarian State - when the minority controls the majority.

  • Rand FLAGSTAFF, AZ
    June 17, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    "It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry."

    Huh? About 2/3 of the population is LDS. The state legislature is 90% LDS and something like 75% Republican. If you are conservative, it is one of the easiest states to get something done because you can just steamroll any opposition.

  • Ron Burgundy Ogden, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    To BSU,

    Did you marry an amish girl?

  • BSU Lehi, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    All I know is that when my wife moved here from Pittsburgh she commented about two things. One, that she had never seen beer or any alcohol for sale in stores. The other was that everyone drives too fast here in Utah.

    Pittsburgh has very low death by automobile accident rates, Utah also has low rates. One other thing about Pittsburgh, besides that life is more important than tourist dollars, is that people can't blame EVERYTHING on the Mormons. It's much easier to get things done without all the anti-religious bigotry.

  • Rand FLAGSTAFF, AZ
    June 17, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    "does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?"

    Excusing the bad behavior of one group by pointing out the same bad behavior in other groups is poor justification.

  • isrred Logan, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    "Let those who consume it pay all associated costs related to it."

    Sure, raise the taxes on alcohol under this pretense as long as you're willing to also levy/raise a tax on the following to cover the "negative social ills" they cause:
    -Soda and candy
    -Ice cream
    -Fast Food
    -Families with children that put a strain on the education system
    etc etc etc

    Once you start taxing "vices" you must tax pretty much everything under that same logic. And here I thought the people of this state were AGAINST taxation...

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    @Mike Richards;

    Do you support an Ice Cream tax and a Soda tax as well as a Tobacco Tax?

    These items "cost" every bit as much to our society as Tobacco does. Honest.

  • Al Vernal, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:49 a.m.

    botdriver,
    "I think the best thing, if you are Mormon, just stay out of other peoples indulgence, If you are Mormon, leave your morals and convictions to yourself, and leave their rights and privileges alone."

    Does that hold true only for Mormons? Couldn't that also be true for say........liberals?

    If you are a liberal, just stay out of other people's health care. If you are liberal just keep your hands out of other people's pockets. If you are liberal leave your lack of morals and convictions to yourself, and leave other people's rights and privileges alone."

    Also, you didn't factor in the financial benefits of the results of your beloved alcohol cunsumption. I'm sure that all the money paid for the divorses and family break-ups caused by alcohol helps the economy. I'm sure that the money spent at medical facilities due to alcohol consumption also helps the economy. All that money spent at mortuaries because of alcohol related deaths must help.

    I have many friends and loved ones who have suffered greatly because of alcohol. The latest was a cousin who died from alcohol poisoning. But, you'll find a way to blame the Mormons for that, too.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 17, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    No one is willing to list the "cost" of liquor consumption to the State. They cite the "profits" made by selling liquor, but they ignore the welfare payments made because of liquor. They ignore the lost tax revenue when people loose their jobs because of liquor. The ignore the costs to feed and clothe and house broken families because of liquor.

    If the numbers were published, I'm sure that we would all see that the State pays out much more to pay for the results of drinking than it receives in profits from the sale of liquor.

    Last year the State levied a tax on tobacco, listing as the reason the high cost to the State of medical and welfare costs that result from smoking.

    Perhaps it's time that the State did the same for all forms of alcohol. Let those who consume it pay all associated costs related to it.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    RedShirt said: " does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?

    Different churches... same "religious zealots."

  • JustinSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    I'm a lifelong, sixth-generation resident of Utah. I'm not a member of any religion. I want to be able to go out with a few of my friends, to a local restaurant or pub, sit around a table, and order the same beverage options I can get in Boise, Denver, Jackson, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, and yes, Reno or Las Vegas. I would like to buy a bottle of wine at the grocery store, or Costco, like I can in every state surrounding Utah. I'd like to feel like I'm not being forced to live under somebody else's religious-based morality every time I feel like going out somewhere with a few friends. I'd like to walk into a bar without having my ID scanned into a state database.

    This attitude of "This is our state and you'll live by our rules", which is held by many in the cultural majority of Utah, will eventually be what causes me to leave this state. There is no room, or acceptance, for anybody who thinks or lives differently.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:03 a.m.

    To "RanchHand | 6:20 a.m." does the same church that you claim runs Utah also run the 17 other states that have equal or more strict liquor laws?

  • Rand FLAGSTAFF, AZ
    June 17, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    Helen,
    Your comments suggest that you live in an insular world and don't have many conversations with people outside your religion. Otherwise the answers to several of your questions would be clear.

    Excellent questions, RanchHand, here are a few more:

    1. What gives you the right to force your religious views upon anyone?

    2. Do you understand that most adults responsibly consume alcohol?

    3. Would you support religious edicts passed down through government if they came from another religion? If not, can you now understand why many residents of Utah tire of this?

    4. Do you understand that Utah is becoming a more diverse place, and that eventually it will be difficult to keep these theocratic laws on the books?

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 7:35 a.m.

    Helen, there seems to be a disconnect in your logic. You ask questions that one would normally expect of a Utah county non-drinker, but when we compare your opinion with that of the mayor of your fair city, there is conflict. The Mayor recently pleaded with the Liquor Control Commission not to close the liquor in Provo as he cited the severe economic harm that would be done to the community by closing the store.

    There are only two choices here Helen: 1. Close the store and all liquor establishments in Utah county and raise your taxes to compensate for the shortfall. 2. Let the status quo remain just that and you go back to your knitting.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    June 17, 2011 7:05 a.m.

    Are you saying that if a restaurant owner doesn't like it here, they should just leave? Yeoweee!

    I thought people here liked free enterprise and less government influence in business. But this issue proves it ain't so....

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    June 17, 2011 6:20 a.m.

    More questions:

    Why does a church (via a puppet legislature) have any business dictitating what adults are able to consume.

    Why does a non-drinker have any business peeping into another's personal drinking habits?

    Why don't busy bodies mind their own business?

  • botdriver Midvale, UT
    June 17, 2011 4:42 a.m.

    Maybe I can answer that for you, 1. Since alcohol production produces jobs, those people keep working 2. By those people working they pay taxes, and feed their families, because it's called a job. 3. Then those people that work in the liquor stores, bars or restaurants they sell alcohol, it's produces tax revenue for the state. Since jobs are hard to come by, you know the economy. These people pay taxes, it takes money to run things. 4. They need to feed their families to, if you don't mind if they try to feed their families. Well, maybe not like you living the life of luxury, But if you want the alcohol stores shut down, that's fine, I'm sure that the legislators could raise property taxes up 20%, and and another 10% on everything else, like cars, food, electronic's, you name it, they'll find something to tax.

    BUT

    I think the best thing, if you are Mormon, just stay out of other peoples indulgence, If you are Mormon, leave your morals and convictions to yourself, and leave their rights and privileges alone.

    Practice your religion, that is your right, and privilege.

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 4:41 a.m.

    All I can say is, "Wow!" What part of fair, practical and reasonable don't you get? If all eating establishments followed your advice, we all would have only fast food choices and Denny's would still be open for special occasions.