1 Nephi 8:33"... but we heeded them not."
I believe that to most people in Utah believe the only acceptable musical about
the LDS church or the Book of Mormon would be officially produced by the LDS
church, or stands as a recruiting tool performed at the Conference Center
Theater. The Book of Mormon musical is a comedy satire that takes the
"peculiar" traits of our culture. It is a satire, so of course things
need to be exaggerated and blown out of proportion. Having grown up around
many "naive" Mormons at BYU I have met many "Elder Price"
type kids who believe Mormon lore as actual doctrine, and have no clue about the
world and different cultures. As for how this article trying to prove this
musical inaccurate with facts, you should do some additional homework. Female
Genital Mutilation (circumcision) is a religious principal that may be
"illegal" but is still performed within the Muslim religion. This
practice is even performed in the UK and the US. The Book of Mormon
musical is well written, produced, performed and I for one am looking forward to
The Adversary is skilled at finding perverse people with perverse ideologies
that share their perversions by means of their so called art form in places like
Broadway and Hollywood with the kind of reckless abandon that infects like an
uncontrollable disease without a cure. Thankfully Divine Providence
knows how to use foolish and harmful acts for His purposes. Somehow I expect
that this attempt to slander the goodness of "Mormonism" will backfire
and will leads millions more of honest, inquisitive minds ultimately toward
membership into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, much to the
chagrin of those that are now getting a good laugh as a result of their crude,
@wazupPerfect. Right on.
Let's not forget that this is show biz (I guess there's no business like show
business). I don't find anything attractive about these two smug guys making a
pile of money off of beliefs which if not sacred to us are sacred to those we
care about. This is where liberalism meets business - not pretty.
Maybe with all the hoopla some people will actually be motivated to seriously
read the Book of Mormon for themselves. What a unique experience that would be
for them! Most people and popular culture doesn't have a clue what's between
those covers. People are left by the media to believe that 'some responsible
someone' has read the Book of Mormon and decided it's not worth their time--that
it doesn't apply to their life. There are probably more non-sectarian college
courses offered on the Talmud and the Koran than there are on the Latter-day
Saint cannon of scripture. All I can say is, "Read the Book of Mormon
Ditto Jonathan Eddy: The fact that people are willing to put up with blatant
misrepresentations and the foulest of language shows what kind of people attend
January 16, 2007 BYU Devotional Boyd K Packer: " Much of their attack is
indirect, in mocking the faithful and mocking religion."
No worries! Let them have their day. Somehow the church keeps moving forward.
On the one hand, as a religion gains greater social acceptance, it will also be
subject to greater social scrutiny and scorn. To date, media has largely
ignored LDS. How many TV shows have even a single, token, LDS character?
Including shows set in cities like Las Vegas that have a significant LDS
population?Once media does include a church in its plots, it almost
always distorts the religion. I was amazed the first time I attended a catholic
wedding how very different it was than all the supposedly Catholic weddings I
had seen depicted on TV and in movies over the years.
Somebody help me out here. The fact that there are inaccuracies in this play are
pointed out in the show. But what Mormons believe isn't said and I don't know
anything about what you guys believe........
"We all know that Art is not truth. Art is a lie that makes us realize
truth." -Pablo PicassoDespite a few minor inaccuracies, the
Book of Mormon Musical is inspiring, uplifting, and yes, true, because it
teaches that Faith is genuinely powerful, and that shared Faith can change a
community, and improve our world.
"Read the Book of Mormon seriously yourself." I did.
Many times, beginning with a response to a seminary teacher's challenge,
throughout my mission, and for many years afterward. All along, I prayed
sincerely, with real intent, having faith in Christ for a witness of the book's
truthfulness. Nothing happened, ever. When I finally opened up and shared my
failure with family and church leaders, I was told through well-meaning language
that it was all my fault (maybe I lacked faith, had some unrepented sin, wasn't
listening, wasn't really willing to live up to the standards of the church,
etc.). After hearing that for a number of years both in person and over the
pulpit, I couldn't take the self-loathing it caused anymore and left the church.
The Book of Mormon musical is awesome! I love the soundtrack. It's very
therapeutic for me.
"This is where liberalism meets business - not pretty."The
producers of this play are considered pretty Libertarian, not liberal.
When I saw the soundtrack that had explicit lyric warning, that showed me right
there the direction of this trashy play.
Agree with new Yorker (after watching the song "I am a Mormon" last
night on TV). The Church would have had to pay $,$$$,$$$ to get the exposure and
create the interest in the Book of Mormon that has been provided by the
"Book of Mormon" show on broadway.I read all of the
Doctrine and Covenants after reading "The Work and the Glory" created
more interest in me to check the accuracy of the novels.
If you want to see a show about mormons, I suggest the new movie "17
Miracles"... It's a miracle of the common believers and their struggles
pressing forward in a faith in the face of impossibly difficult physical
circumstances.Broadway's vulgar attempts to entertain do no justice
to a religion that's had plenty of intolerance and mocking since it was
conceived. The very name "Mormons" was intended a slander--now it is
no big deal, and ultimately such will be the case with any group that attempts
to do likewise. The Book of Mormon is a holy book of scripture that
has made my life better. I'm grateful to have read and studied its pages. I love
the stories therein. They are filled with messages of hope in the face of
overwhelming spiritual odds and constant hardships. It illuminates the human
condition and its backsliding nature regarding God. It foretells of great
blessings to be had as we put our faith in Christ and is another witness that
God loves ALL mankind. It's a shame that more don't want that, but I
Satire of the Quran? I am glad most members of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints, Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Jewish synogogues can
laugh when they are the object of satire. The Catholics and Jews
have successfully withstood satire for thousands of years.
Does it really matter whether or not it is entirely accurate? Not really - this
musical will do more for raising interest in the Restored Gospel among the
general public than all that we as memebers have not done (and should have
done). Perhaps this is the Lord's not so subtle way of reminding us that we
still have a long way to go in Preaching the Gospel.
So what are the producers message? It sounds like the show has only a patina of
misguided doctrine while loaded with obscene satire. Do they think this
represents us in any realistic way? Just a pile of broadway garbage that could
have misrepresented anyone's religion.
So they "did their homework" on LDS doctrine huh. Several good
comments thus far, but I suspect later on there will be the "Mormon"
bashers who will come online to praise this Broadway show. I find it
disappointing though that we actually pay homage/reward entertainment like this.
I know that members of the church want accuracy, but this is a fictional play
and it just won't happen. It is meant to entertain, not to inform, so you will
just have to live with it. It seems to me that the fact this article was even
written suggests that you don't get it and being thin-skinned is still a Mormon
It's really sad that some people use their God-given talents to mock Him.
However, past experience shows that these types of things actually bring many to
the restored Gospel. The "Godmakers" come to mind. The guy thought
he would destroy the Church with it. Instead, many had their curiosity sparked,
investigated the Church and were converted. I believe that will happen here,
Bad press is better than no press at all.
Perhaps Im off base but it seems to me that since we have at least one Mormon
candidate for the presidency we should see more quotes from this book concerning
some of the issues we face today. What is the key to prosperity? What does Jacob
say about concentration of wealth? What does Benjamine say about attitudes
toward the poor? Other hot issues include taxes, education, defense of freedoms,
laissez faire economics, democracy, backroom business deals, gangs, and the list
goes on and on. The Book of Mormon is the best handbook for good government and
we can encourage people to read it by quoting it in our public discussions. We
can do so in blogs, comments and various other venues. Dont you think it is
These occupants of the "great and spacious building" are having a good
time right now. They will find that it is only temporary. God will not be
mocked!I actually have a sense of humor and I don't have a problem
laughing at some aspects of our culture. But, sacred things are off limits.
This is a sign of the times!
"I mean why not it might even be funny to mock Islam?"I
don't expect people to be up to date on everything that the creators of
"South Park" have done (I've only watched one full episode, and that
was enough), but if you're going to throw around accusations you should probably
know what you're talking about. If you did even cursory research you'd find
that the creators have, in fact, mocked Islam, and more than once. While I rather dislike "South Park" (and probably this musical), the
two creators do, in fact, mock a wide variety of people and beliefs and things.
No, they didn't write a musical about mocking Islam, but they have directly,
openly mocked the religion on multiple occasions on their TV show and in the
"South Park" film. If it doesn't get mocked as often as, say,
Christianity or Hollywood celebrities, it's probably because the average
American has less everyday exposure to practitioners of Islam than to those
others. You'll notice they also don't spend as much time making fun of the
Baha'i faith or of the Tamil Tigers.
Have any of you seen the show? It actually is a very sweet story, with an
unfortunate foul mouthed script. Take out the swear words and it would be a show
that you could take your family to. It's just a shame that foul mouthed is what
sells these days. I really don't think the church has anything to worry about.
It's just in fun. If it had been written by LDS people, without the foul
language everyone would flock to it. Anyone remember Latter-day Ruth? I think
the church can take some ribbing. They don't mock things we hold sacred. Let's
face it, there are plenty of things about our church that are funny to the
outside world. People need to just chill. You can choose to see it or not see
it. No one is holding a gun to your head to see it. But if you choose not to see
it don't pretend to be an expert on what it is about.
One of the awards, "Best Musical Based on a Book," was the ultimate
irony. The parody of God and the Mormons actually gave credit to God for the
book from which the musical sprang.
There are strange LDS doctrines that are rarely mentioned, except by "that
guy" in Sunday School and high priest's quorum.These points mentioned
in the play weren't simply made up, they are based in some sort of fact.
Forget all the Tony's, the amazing thing is the DNews referring favorably to
All faith based religions are hard to believe. Jesus being born of a virgin is
hard to believe. Turning water into wine, feeding so many with a few fish,
walking on water, healing lepers, translating through a peep stone, angels
appearing throughout Christianity,dying on a cross only to resurrect three days
later...its all hard to believe. But its always been that way. Christianity in general needs to lighten up. LDS history is no different from
"main stream" Christianity. It contains things that are hard to
believe. People that want to find out the truth will. Crazy LDS
reaction will do more harm that this musical ever will.
I suppose that it will spark some interest and some people will actually read
the Book of Mormon. The first shock will be the written testimonies of so many
witnesses who saw the plates (how Parker and Stone could have gotten this very
important fact so wrong is astonishing) and that it is a very complex and
inspiring book -- far beyond the capability of an uneducated, backwoods boy in
the early 19th Century.
Satire is part of modern Western civilization. Have any of you read Voltaire's
"Candide?""Candide" was a critical parody of
elements within 18th century European society and Catholicism that Voltaire
found distasteful. But no serious scholar of today would claim that
"Candide" revealed the core beliefs of the Catholic faith. Catholicism
survived "Candide." But Voltaire's criticism helped ignite a
revolution that his beloved French monarchy did not survive.A word
of warning for all wannabe satirists.
ExUtahn:I am sorry you had a bad experience. The gospel is not about
making people feel bad.There is no set time for a testimony to be gained,
it comes in the "Lord's own due time". Ether 12:6 - "...ye
receive no witness until after the trial of your faith."
I think Joseph Smith is thrilled. He lived his entire life with other's
conclusion of his irrelevancy. And now, what a triumph it is that the words
"Book of Mormon" are even on a marquee on Broadway. Just think of it.
From obscurity to Broadway. Who of Joseph's contemporary critics would have
predicted that?As regarding us, if we're offended by this play an
it's success, I unfortunately have to suggest is it because:(a) we
take ourselves way too seriously,(b) we wrongly think we're smart
enough know exactly how the Lord will bring about the world's condition where
"all people" speak of Joseph as good or evil, and(c) we
lack to faith to remember and truly believe that the Lord can overrule all
things for his good.It strikes me that in a society as cynical as
ours, perhaps the one avenue into the the person still left open is humor and
comedy. Many people could literally laugh themselves right into a heartfelt
realization that our message is true.The Spirit goes where IT
listeth, not where we think it will and won't go.
@ goatesnotes The award "best book of a musical" refers to the
"book". In musical the book is the non-singing/spoken portion of the
show the bridges between the songs, sets scenes, builds characters, etc... The
award is for writing the best musical book not for the best musical based on a
I just wanted to say that as a non-Mormon, I think that the play I saw last
night on the Tony Awards is most unfair. I see Mormon churches here in Denver
that are beautifully maintained, there is a church not far from me that is so
well attended on Sundays....must be doing something for folks, for many of the
other churches are not so well attended. I went to school with Mormon children
that were well dressed, kind to others, and all around nice children. I worked
for many year with Mormons at the Telephone company and they were to the one,
fine folks. What ever the the Mormon church teaches seems to me working, so
keep up the good work, and know that lots of people, not of your faith, have
great respect for your organization. So there! New York!!
WAtransplant:Please do a search for what Mormons believe and you
will be able to find some accurate answers on their website.
I have heard a lot of people over the years complain that the doctrines of the
church have been "dumbed down." I don't personally believe it, but as
a Gospel Doctrine teacher I note that the lessons over the years have focussed
on very basic, very elemental doctrines - those geared toward new members of the
church. And at our rate of expansion there are a lot of new members of the
church.At the same time for the older members, and for those who
really dig in to the doctrine, there can be found precious advanced gems of
truth. I want to have my own planet one day - it is one of the things that
motivates me when my resolve is weak. I think that multiple wives will be
practiced hereafter. I think one can have one's calling and election made sure
in mortality. Strange doctrines? Perhaps, but all have been officially taught
in this church.It would be an interesting survey of the membership
to see what the saints believe has been taught as compared with what is
currently and officially being taught.
I suppose what we struggle with is history. Many people argue that the Book of
Mormon is fiction, so that could explain why people aren't flocking to read it.
As to people seeing this play (which I will not) and then reading the Book, I
doubt it. It is a hard read. And as to it being written by a simple farm boy,
the first edition was so full of errors that one COULD see it being written by
someone of that background. And I have read some pretty interesting evidence it
wasn't written by Joseph Smith. And the 4,000 changes since then don't help.As to the "miss" on the writers not capturing that 11 people
saw the Golden Plates, many argue they didn't really, and instead saw the plates
only through their "spiritual eyes."All of these things
make it difficult for us to get our message through in an Internet age: We need
to just put our shoulder to the wheel, press along, and have faith. It will all
I agree, such bullying and mockery may be funny, but the books are much better,
and have improved many more lives : ).Still, Im thankful that I live
in a country where we are free to speak against religion, but Im not looking
forward to "The Talmud" or "The Koran" or any other such
bigotry or anything mocking any other race, religion, sexual orientation,
etc.And, Im disappointed that I live in a Country where we are not
so free to speak FOR religion, and where such anti-religious bigotry is
applauded, and we loudly award those profaning loving service, another's faith,
and my love for humanity and Christ.
ExUtahn | 3:23 a.m. June 13, 2011 APO, AE Well, good for you.
I hope you are happy now. Although, I really don't believe much of what you
wrote. But, it sounds good, eh?
Mormonism is becoming a central theme today in the media and hollywood. Of
course much is depicted inaccurately. But we need to be prepared to answer even
uncomfortable questions accurately and honestly. In today's internet age that
means that a sweeping response that everything negative toward the church is
either false or anti will not be sufficient and may actually cause us to lose
credibility with honest investigators.
I haven't seen and won't see this musical and it sounds perverse and profane.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if it does more good than harm. Those
who mock religion and good in the world will continue to do so. Those who are
honest in heart and are seeking the truth will find it.
49 F-bombs? Boy, people are easily entertained.
Assuming every show is a sellout, The Book of Mormon musical is being seen by
3,324 people per week.In contrast, based on the LDS's church
statistics from 2010, 7,671 people are joining the LDS church per week.And joining a church is a much greater committment than going to see a play
(theoretically, at least).I'd say it's pretty obvious who's winning
Tornogal,"The first edition was so full of errors that one
COULD see it being written by someone of that background"Seriously?A great deal of work has been done to shed light on this
subject. Find a book like "The Book of Mormon: The Earliest Text"
Where it shows early text compared to every major edition released since.I find your "full of errors" statement deceptive. I don't
think the Lord was particularly concerned about the minutia such as grammar and
flipped word here or there (which many of the corrections are.) There are also
typical mistakes that anyone would make when writing journals and books. God
himself didn't hand write the book. To expect absolute 100% perfection is so
absurd. The Bible certainly could not hold up to this standard--and yet I have
faith in it every bit as much as the Book of Mormon.The Book of
Mormon, to me, is a powerful second witness of Jesus Christ.
One thing is for sure, there are many more people with access to the Book of
Mormon than there are people buying tickets to the musical. It is entirely
possible that some people who otherwise might not have read the BoM might do so
just out of curiosity. They can then form their own opinions. With that in mind,
I don't think the average "Mo in the street" should be so concerned
about the inaccuracies in the musical. Rather they should perhaps remember the
story about 116 pages that got lost....seems like THAT one worked out for the
home team? :-)
So why not just ignore it? Do we really need to spend time analyzing it and
whining about it?
Let's apply this same level of scrutiny to the actual Book of Mormon. Pollen
grains of wheat, barley and flax in the Western Hemisphere during BofM times? No
evidence. Horses, elephants and cattle? No evidence. Semitic DNA? No evidence.
Steel, about 1,000 years before the Iron Age? Once again, no evidence. Seems the
producers did a better job of depicting Mormonism than Joseph Smith did of
depicting the pre-Columbia Americas.
The 'I Believe' song on the show last night was filled with things for folks to
consider, although the audience seem to be compelled to laugh throughout,
because it was 'supposed to be satirical', but every line of doctrine he sang
was true, even when he sang to the black Ugandan warlord that he could join with
full inclusion since the 1978 revelation. Although its phrased for ridicule,
the fact remains that this revelation came only 14 years after black segregation
in America was abolished in 1964. That sacred part of the restoration could not
be received until white America was ready.The only part of the
awards that I found distasteful was the final jab when they accepted the best
musical award, thanking their 'co-writer' Joseph Smith.However, my
perspective is that this production may be the only way to get through to some
people of the world, who otherwise are unaccessible. Souls will be touched
amidst the laughing and profanity. Somehow they will hear the promptings deep
within their hearts, in the middle of the facade of satire and ridicule.
I haven't been able to see the play yet, but reading parts of the script and
listening to the music actually made me more sympathetic to the church. From
what I've read and heard, the play seems to reflect the church in a positive
light. I think people are just assuming that it is an all out attack on
Mormons, but that just isn't the case. Honestly, the overreaction from many
members makes the church look worse than what the play does. When people are
overly sensitive to this type of thing, it makes me feel like they have
something to hide. It reminds me of the way the church of Scientology goes
around suing anybody that says anything negative about it. By the
way, some things about Mormonism are simply peculiar. That's the truth. I
often sense that some Mormons are embarrassed by that, but if you believe it,
don't hide from it, embrace it. Who cares if somebody else finds your beliefs
odd? They are odd. I don't think there is such a thing as a religious belief
that is not odd to somebody somewhere.
The word "mock" is appropriate to describe those who wrote, those who
produced, those who act and those who attend that production.They
must have left out Ether when he said, "Fools mock, but they shall
Just proves how big "the Chuch" has become. There have been 100s of
movies/plays about catholism and now they take a punch at Mormons, get used to
it. The bigger you are, the more they throw punches.Now go ask
yourself, "who am I, what am I doing here, and where am I going".
All posters have not seen the play nor have they listened to the soundtrack.
All opinions attacking the play are based on ignorance and hearsay.
It seems most likely that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction, so why get so
upset about something that is not real. Is the play mocking the Mormons or the
Book of Mormon. There is a difference: the Mormons are real. The Mormons
themselves deserve some compasion and understanding. They like the victims of
many other cultures are caught up in polictical religious bondage.
And yet no one here has condemed the racist bigotted portrail of Ugandans,
Truth be told hollywood and Broadway elites are racist bigots.
Every dog has their day, the only problem with that is that at the end of the
day, you're still a dog.Glad they are making millions. They won't be able to
take it with them.
Mr. GlassAll posters realize this is just a sham of a play written
by fools. How many times do they drop the 'F' bomb in this play? No, I don't
think there is any good taste or of redeeming quaility in the play. Withour
having to see it.I have read the B of M many times and have felt the warm,
peacful influence of the spirit often while pondering the message.
What could be more appropriate for a satire written about a religion that
distorts history to have that distorted history distorted?
"And great was the multitude that did enter into that strange building. And
after they did enter into that building they did point the finger of scorn at me
and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not....For as many as aheeded them, had fallen away."Not
much else to say here.
Congratulations to Joseph Smith for finally winning a Tony Award for his
contributions to religion.I find little positive to write about a
Broadway season that unleashed on the unwary public "The Book of Mormon
Musical" "The [you-know-who]with the Hat" "Priscilla Queen
of the Desert" and "Spiderman - Turn Off The Dark"And
the best play, Scottsboro Boys, which had a positive message, got shut out after
12 nominations. A young man from Salt Lake City did the choreography.There is Broadway in a big nutshell.The Irony of the title
"The Book of Mormon," both as book or play title, is that it does not
really describe what the book or play IS. The scripture should be titled either
"The Lehite Covenant" or "The Lehite Testament." One running
gag in the play (should be titled "Mormon Missionaries in Uganda") is
that the elders haven't read the book and don't know it.The big
mystery in all of this is why the Intellectual Reserve did not sue "The
Book of Mormon Musical" for copyright infringement and demand royalties for
use of copyrighted material.
If I was the mission president in New York City, I would station missionaries
outside the theater after each performance handing out the Book of Mormon to
each theater patron under a banner saying "You've seen the play, now read
To ExUtahn,I'm sorry you spent so long "Waiting on the Road to
Damascus" for a vision before giving up. You should read President
Uchtdorf's conference talk by that title. Did you not find one story, one
thought, one persona in the Book of Mormon that was of spiritual and ethical
value to you? Was King Benjamin so far fetched to you that you didn't hear his
lesson. Even if the Book of Mormon were total fiction, its teachings should at
least be part of at least the American cultural debate. Instead, the contents of
the book are still in relative cultural obscurity. These stories and characters
should at least become part of the American cultural idiom. And, more than that,
the Book of Mormon is true. It is actually what it purports to be!
It's amazing to hear all this belly aching about "inaccuracies".
These guys did the mormons a favor by NOT talking about Helen Mar Kimball, Peep
Stones, and Egyptian Mummies. Telling the truth would have been worse for the
Lily59:What you just said to ExUtahn is precisely what caused the
"self-loathing" that caused him/her to leave. Please be careful what
you say.You say you are sorry ExMormon had a bad experience, then go
on to say "There is no set time for a testimony to be gained, it comes in
the "Lord's own due time". Ether 12:6 - "...ye receive no
witness until after the trial of your faith." That was my
favorite scripture, too, and the only thing that helped me stay in the church as
long as I did. Nobody offended me or caused me to leave, although I do find your
comments to ExUtahn pretty hurtful (to him/her, me, and likely countless others)
considering the circumstances.
RE: New Yorker: I doubt as you say that the Book of Mormon is true; but I agree
with you that there is good to be learned by its fiction of lessons taught. I
think the answer to your question as to why more people don't read the Book of
Mormon and profit from its teachings is because there are many other books and
sources of material that teach the same lessons in a more modern, real and
applicable manner, ie.: the Boy Scout manual, etc. But then we do not always put
those lessons in practice either, do we. May be that we are just more human than
we imagine ourselves to be.
Many people on this board seem surprised that the church gets scrutinized or put
under the microscope so to speak. But it is clear that a church that claims to
be the one true church will have to put up with that kind of scrutiny. A church
with that big of a claim will have to back up that claim with proof, and of
course there will be criticisms. If the church was just like any other faith
that does not claim to be the one true church the scrutiny would be much less.
I love how people think the creators of South Park are creating a
"war" against the church. South Park just makes fun of anything and
everything. If I am going to watch something making fun of Scientology (see
episode "Trapped in the Closet) or Judaism (almost every episode) then I
must be willing to allow them to make fun of me. If anyone takes Matt and
Trey's comments as serious criticisms, they are over thinking and over
Good point rightascension, what is the Church legal response to usage of its
name and scriptures for commercial gain? Even down to the missionary name
tags!Regarding the true name of the Lehite Covenant, notice how many
times through the Book of Mormon, it refers to the 'Words of Christ'.
mdwaite | 10:13 a.m. June 13, 2011 NORTH LAS VEGAS, NV"And great was the multitude that did enter into that strange building.
And after they did enter into that building they did point the finger of scorn
at me and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them
not."Why are you commenting about the City Creek Center
Some people seem to think this musical is going to put more people in the pews
on Sunday, but I don't think so. It brings a lot of Mormonisms more
controversial teachings right out into the open (and often out of context) and
paints them in an extremely comical way. It provokes the behavior of flippant
dismissal of the supernatural stories found in the doctrines and history of the
church. People aren't going to come away wanting to know more, they're going to
come away thinking, "wow, I'm never letting those guys through my front
door. Their culture and the stuff they believe in is just so laughable."This musical has got to be the most powerful and cleverly crafted piece
of anti-mormon media that's ever been created. It's going to cause a lot of
headaches for members of the church as its influence spreads.
I have to admit, as a former LDS member I am amazed at how thin skinned the LDS
people are. Where is this outcry of religious persecution when there is a
satryrical or dramatic movie, musical, play, movie or even joke when it's about
another religion?? Examples:"Nunsense" "Nunsense 2 The Second Comming""Sister Act" (also
nominated for Tony Awards last night.)"Agnes of God" (About a
nun who claimed to have had God's baby.)"Doubt" (Dealt with the
priest sex abuse scandal.)"Spamalot" (Can't succeed on Broadway
if you haven't any Jews.)Those are all fine, but do ONE musical
satire and it's sack cloth and ashes, wailing and gnashing of teeth and the
"Why are they pickling on US???".It's satire, NOT a
documentary. My advise: Get a sense of humor.
Major Bidamon,You obviously have little cultural and historical empathy.
Most people alive today do not grasp the way humankind lived and thought in the
early part of the 20th Century, much less 100 years earlier. For my grandparents
it was most important to be respected by their children, not loved by them. The
world you know today is not the earlier world. There is nothing to hide or be
ashamed of in the events you cite. I read and translate centuries-old church
records and have seen some interesting entries in Catholic and Lutheran church
books. For example, one Catholic priest authorized a parishioner to take a
second wife because his first wife was disabled. It would be a positive thing
for us in the 21st Century to get a better grasp of other times and other
cultures. Then perhaps we would not be so arrogant when dealing with our
contemporaries in other lands.
Clearly they did some research, but made no effort to be accurate. Could it be
that they arent seeking to understand? Bullying always requires some self
blindness. Rather than see the humanity of the ridiculed we must cling to and
foster stereotypes. That is expected.We see some of the same in
comments here. Some Professional anti-Mormons posting things such as "just
be glad they didn't tell them just how awful you really are you Mormons"
others pretending to be LDS (no, not you IC, Ive given up on figuring you out).
They justify their own bigotry by painting us as the bigots, and repeating age
old debunked anti-Mormon claims, as if we hadnt heard them again and again. (For
example: witnesses only saw with spiritual eyes! Do your history! That claim
was posed so long ago that Book of Mormon Witnesses were still alive to counter
it. One pointed to the eyes in his head these eyes, these hands. Another I hope
you'll understand me now--it was no deception, it was real." They hefted,
and saw. You can read these and many other statements on FAIR lds etc.
To skeptic,There is a substantive difference between the Book of
Mormon and most other sources for humanistic teachings. The Book of Mormon is
mantic. The others are sophic. I'd suggest you read Nibleys "Three Shrines:
Mantic, Sophic, and Sophistic" before moving ahead, including the lessons
that Nibley draws from Oedipus Tyrannus.The Law of Parsimony leads
to the conclusion that Book of Mormon's own explanation of its origin is true.
Study the book critically and then study all the documentation as to how it was
produced. Simply put, there is no better explanation as to why the Book of
Mormon exists than the one found in the book. The few suggested alternatives
just don't hold enough water. The documentation of what happened when the book
was produced is prolific and multi-sourced. Whether from the mind of Joseph
Smith or from gold plates, it is certainly on a par with the other historical
volumes of scripture which, at the time they were produced, were also
miraculous.The real question is not whether the Book of Mormon and
the Bible are "true." The real question is whether Jesus is the Christ
the Son of God.
@ Bluffdale You made this comment, "The Book of Mormon musical is well
written, produced, performed and I for one am looking forward to seeing
it!" I am not challenging the accuracy of your evaluation of the
musical, I am just wondering how you can run these two statements together. On
the one hand you admit to having not yet seen the musical and yet on the other
you state that it is well written, produced, and performed. Care to explain?
I DARE THEM!!! It is easy to make satire and show disrespect to a church that
you know will take the high road. So do these guys have the courage to do a
musical about the Muslims? They don't, cause if they treated the Muslims with
the same kind of vulgarity and mockery, there would be many that would not turn
the other cheek. It really is sad when people think they are acting tough by
attacking someone by being sarcastic, but doesn't that really show the weakness
behind them? The guy left the church, he was a RM and I think deep in the dark
corners of his soul, there is some guilt and it angers him, so he attacks. Some
people may view rudeness as being strong, but in all actuality it is a weak
person who is rude, kind of like the saying that sarcasm is a show of lack of
Pretty interesting, all about this play. In the meantime, my son serving in the
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania mission informs us through his weekly e-mail that he
and his companion have 10 baptisms scheduled for next month.And the
work rolls forward.
OOOOOOOOOOps..My bad, I forgot one:"Angels In America"
(Both parts) Dealt with a Mormon man coming to terms with his homosexuality
during the AIDS outbreak. Not Satire, but I don't remember people crying in
their Postum over the way it represented Mormons.
@ teri88 | 7:25 a.m. June 13, 2011 I have a well-developed sense of
humor, was raised in the theater, have acted and sang professionally, and have a
considerably open mind about art in its many forms. However, it pains me when
an otherwise wonderful piece of film, literature or theater sells itself with
profanity, explicit sexuality and moral depravity.Your justifying
this work by calling it 'clever', with a few swear words reminds me of a
favorite phrase of our family: "That was the best ice cream I ever ate, and
it only had a few cockroaches in it."Recently, we were
counseled, "If it isn't OK to do it, it isn't OK to be entertained by
it". To do otherwise is to invite the deepravity of the world into my
home, where it can eat away at the moral fiber of my children like a cancer.
We discuss the media regularly in our home, recently having an
animated discussion on whether the material in "Sweeney Todd" was
worthy of our indulgence and the world's glorification. Well written, well
performed, but....cockroaches.So you go ahead and rationalize. We
will seek out more worthy entertainment.
@New Yorker, and obviously you missed my point. The author is upset the true
doctrines of the church were taken out of context. I would say most members
(you obviously not included) would have a huge problem if they knew about our
true history -- the Church should be counting it's lucky stars none of this was
brought up. BTW, Please have some empathy for those who doubt my friend.
I watched 10 minutes of South Park once, but I started to get sick. It does not
take talent to get your humor from discussions of bodily functions or profanity.
Unfortunately we pretty much have lost sight of what is real humor; South Park
is funny only to the ignorant. The better question is why someone would place
it on TV. It illustrates the liberal agenda that permeates the media and is a
part of the social engineering taking place in our country. I could understand
putting together a play that pokes a little fun at good people, but why not
first put one together that pokes a lot of fun at bad people? The awards
earned by the play are only liberal patronage because of subject matter and
despicability, not talent or merit.
It's Ok, World, we'll keep sending missionaries to testify about the Book of
Mormon until The Man comes back; it`s OK.
I, for one, don't mind the attention or humor. Still, in a world where bridges
are so needed, wouldn't it be nice to poke fun in more respectful ways, rather
than promote stereotypes and bigotry? Most LDS generated media like
"Saturday's Warrior," etc include satire and poke fun of Mormonisms.
But I think it's a little different when we applaud those who foster
misunderstandings and disdain. The play, as I understand it, pokes
fun of things sacred to LDS, Christians, and religion in general. That's perhaps ok. Maybe it's also viewed as ok to poke fun of
Jewish peculiarities, but mocking Jews or Judaism is quite different, it
approaches promoting the same misunderstandings that create holocausts, whether
Jews bore arms or not.LDS did have an extermination order, here in
America, due to the same sorts of misunderstandings. And mocking the martyrdom
of Joseph Smith isn't funny. And abundant evidence proves the BoM was written,
not by him, but anciently.There is already much hatred against LDS
people, we daily read its subtleties in DN comments, my children deal with it at
school and with neighbors, etc. Why not increase peace and love?
@FDRfan"Dont you think it is time? "If you
want to stoke the claim that Mormons want to impose their religion on everyone
else, then sure, go ahead and quote the Book of Mormon repeatedly with regard to
politics. @Max"of so many witnesses"11
close friends and family members isn't very many.@walt nicholas"I want to have my own planet one day - it is one of the things that
motivates me when my resolve is weak."Ah, so you want power?
Whatever happened to "hey I just want to be a decent person"."I think that multiple wives will be practiced hereafter."Oh... and women. Power and women.
From the article "the BOM musical was watched by the kind of people who
watch Broadway Musicals." It seems to me it's also being watched by people
who have a vendetta against the Church. The "F" word is
becoming so commonplace nowadays that its no longer considered vulgar in certain
factions of society. The article says that a man took his children to see that
play? Obviously he saw no vulgarity in the obscene language used in the
musical. I seriously doubt his children learned anything about Mormonism, good
or bad. What they probably learned were a few new swear words.@EXUtahan: While you doing all that soul-searching of the truthfulness of the
BOM, were you convinced that it was not real? While on your mission, did you
think the stories in it were absurd or full of lies? Exactly what were you
looking for when seeking the truth of the BOM? It's a beautifully written book,
by an uneducated farm boy who barely knew how to write. Why would he make up
such a story? Maybe its unlikely origins speak of its truthfulness. Sorry you
has experience with some well-meaning, ignorant people.
This a mockery of the church if they really believed that is how we are then
they are asking for it...this is not acceptable and I don't ever want to see
that musical due to the fact that they are not accurate and ridicule the
church...if he was really trying to teach his children how he was raised than
they were taught wrong...Families are Forever whether he thinks it is or
not...Read the Book of Mormon not the play...the book contains more powerful
truth than some play that doesn't make you want to feel good yourself.
@tornogal"Many people argue that the Book of Mormon is fiction, so
that could explain why people aren't flocking to read it. "People can still read and like fiction though. @brave sir robin"The Book of Mormon musical is being seen by 3,324 people per week.In contrast, based on the LDS's church statistics from 2010, 7,671
people are joining the LDS church per week.I'd say it's pretty
obvious who's winning this war. "What if we throw in the
numbers of people who leave the church and walk out of the theatre
Misrepresentations: All three aforementioned witnesses eventually
broke with Smith and were excommunicated from the church he had founded. Each
had made a significant financial investment in the publication of the Book of
Mormon. Each witness merely signed a prewritten statement. (wikipedia) Is a
lone signature enough to assume that a person was being truthful about something
so important? Maybe and maybe not."God's plan involves me
getting my own planet". Is this doctrine or a couplet? I wish the church
would choose a side and stick to it. It can't be both. Finally, if
Mormon doctrine depicts a kinder view of heaven and hell, why do so many LDS
feel that it's such a tragedy when a family member leaves the faith? How can
one feel that it is possible for "worthy" people to "visit
down" and, at the same time, believe that all is lost within the family
unit if not everybody remains faithful? This is just me thinking out loud, but
sometimes I wonder if LDS believe their own doctrines. The fear expressed seems
to go better with a fire and brimstone version of the afterlife. It certainly
doesn't covey hope or mercy.
Whats funny about this is I made a comment it was denied and I then I get i
email that I have over 10 recomendations for the deleted comment wow!
Remember that art isn't meant to be a mirror to reflect the world--it's a hammer
to shape the world. 9 Tonys folks----That means Book of Mormon the Musical--is
WIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNG!!-(with Tigers Blood-as the fabulous Mr. Sheen would put it).
And this is one Utah boy who thinks it mah--velous! I'm having to fan myself
just writing about it. Don't mind me, I'm just walking on clouds this morning.
"Yet, "The Book of Mormon" musical also contains less benign
inaccuracies, like misrepresenting Joseph Smith's history,..."---Which JS history would that be? The real one or the fantastical,
completely fictional one put out by the LDS Church?Cats;"It's really sad that some people use their God-given talents to mock
Him."--- They aren't mocking "Him", cats, they're
mocking you.If you think this will make people join the
"church", you're sadly mistaken. There are a lot of savvy people out
there and they're far more likely to do an online search about mormonism before
reading the bom. There they will find more real history than I ever learned in
30 years as an active mormon in church.
While it's true that about 3,500 are seeing it per week, the 9 Tony's pretty
much insures that the BofM musical will be a mega popular movie down the road a
ways. Beiber should be just about the right age to play the lead by then, so
scores of teen girls will not only learn about church history--they will be
sah---wooooooning while they do so--(a few boys as well, wink wink). In any
case, the national tour and world touring companies and subsequent bus and truck
follow ups will make this show a world wide phenomenon. I see concert versions a
la Les Miz and when future converts are considering joining the LDS faith--now
instead of just saying "have you read the Book of Mormon--and will you do
so with an open heart---" the rational counter by caring individuals on the
other side will be, "have you SEEN the Book of Mormon--and will you do so
with an open mind?"Balances things out--doncha think?
Brave Sir Robin | 8:53 a.m. June 13, 2011 San Diego, CA Assuming
every show is a sellout, The Book of Mormon musical is being seen by 3,324
people per week.In contrast, based on the LDS's church statistics
from 2010, 7,671 people are joining the LDS church per week.---It's too bad the lds church won't post/report on the number of people
who also leave the church each week. Do you happen to know the actual count for
how many people join the lds church and then never, ever go back after the first
month or so?Real numbers aren't forthcoming.
[How can one feel that it is possible for "worthy" people to
"visit down" and, at the same time, believe that all is lost within
the family unit if not everybody remains faithful?]Can you imagine
what the TSA screenings must be like for travel into and out of the celestial
RE: Newyorker 11:24, Thank you for your response: "The Law of Parsimony
leads to the conclusion that Book of Mormon's own explanation of its origin is
true".I find your response confusing, because I think The Law
of Parismony, or Occam's Razor or the Kiss principal would all favor the side of
the Book of Mormon being a work of fiction. Please explain. Thx.
These guys said they did their homework. Well, they get a "F" on it.
The Adversary has been trying to make light of sacred things for hundreds of
years. Now he's using some x-latter-day saints to try and mock sacred things.
"Oh and don't forget to throw in a scene of hell and make it as
funny as you can so no one takes me seriously either." nice work satan,
you've made it to broadway blatantly this time! you try and use parody and
satire to hide what your really after, to mock the truth's that bring true
happiness to all of God's children. You're not fooling anyone, just keep digging
yourself deeper into your pathetic misery you will be in forever. Oh, and in
case you haven't heard, we currently have 11 more temples under construction,
and 15 others soon to break ground. Your not getting to any of us!
JM:Peace and love will only be achieved when both sides are willing
to admit wrongdoing. Neither side is blameless, and the more each side asks the
other for understanding without acknowledging their own mistakes, the more the
divide will continue to grow.
And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound.D & C
45:27Imagine their talents used to uplift and sustain. All of you with
talents, remember the reason we have talents. Entertainment isn't just
entertainment. Paul's admonition was to seek things praiseworthy or of good
I am hoping that the PR from this musical exposes the church for what it truly
is for all of its lies. I hope it sends those who are inquiring and doubting
Mormons to do not be afraid and do more research and find out the real truth of
this so called church. This is all part of the LDS demise unbeknownst to the
true followers who actually believe that of the 12 million members on its rolls,
12 million are actually active. I am a Black ex-Mormon who was lied to by the
missionaries for not telling me about the church's past and I ended up looking
stupid trying to defend this house of lies for over 25 years. No more. I hope
Romney becomes more successful in his bid as well which is more PR to expose the
truth of this house of lies. He definitley won't get the Black vote that's for
sure not that people from Utah really care about that.
As I pointed out above, the hatred towards Mormons runs much deeper than just
satire and having fun. Humor is often ok, even poking fun of religion etc. Mormon hating seems to run so much deeper. Those who hate Mormons seem
driven to explain and justify it to themselves (seen Nationally, worldwide, and
in comments etc). They do this by dismissing overwhelming evidences that the BoM
is truly ancient and that The Christ it testifies of is truly God. They paint
LDS as bigots, or uneducated etc. Most of all, they must avoid
thinking about the fact that God has spoken to every true LDS, not just Joseph
Smith. Critic illogic perhaps help then deny that there is more to
Christs Church than simply blind faith, backed by a 'just cuz.' God has spoken
to every true LDSAtl: you know some witnesses were attacked,
threatened, mocked, publicly stripped, tarred, surrounded by 500 anti-Mormons,
still, with guns to heads, they boldly asserted their testimony. BoM
witnesses did not deny. They insisted to the death, "it was real." @LDS Professional anti-Mormons will probably post many repeats
(Witnesses, philosophy, etc) for any questions check FAIR lds, Maxwell, honest
"They do this by dismissing overwhelming evidences that the BoM is truly
ancient "So the Smithsonian and basically every single non-LDS
historical institute in the world is just full of a bunch of haters? Or maybe,
just maybe, the "evidence" you claim is far from
No need to get our feathers ruffled over this notoriety. Statistics show that
any publicity the Church receives, good or bad, leads to an increase in
baptisms. There will always be those gullible individuals who will
believe everything they read or hear. There will always be those intelligent
individuals who will want to know for themselves if what they're being told is
true.I think it's hilarious that it got an award for "best
book." Some will see the literature entitled "The Book of
Mormon" and think "oh this won some type of award for best book. I
think I'll read it." It doesn't come as a surprise as Broadway
has higher than average numbers of homosexuals, lesbians, cross-dressers and
those confused about their gender identity. They may think they've
stuck it to the Church in response to Prop.8 We'll see who has the last
laugh.It's also ironic that mocking Mormons is considered okay. Can
you imagine the outrage if a play mocked the Amish culture or the Jewish faith
The Book of Mormon musical is a long list of trash that is produced by theater
elites and major movie studio's. These are people who have no moral values or
any kind of scruples. What's true is that this might be some of the best
missionary opportunities for the church. Interest in the church will probably
be very good while this play is running in New York. We need to take of full
advantage to explain our beliefs to people who show interest.
I cant even imagine spending my time or money to see this....Im going fishing !
Michael Medved, the author and radio commentator, wrote an article back in April
about this piece of entertainment entitled "Would Broadway Produce a
Satirical Musical Called "The Koran"? Google it for further
Sarah B: What rock have you been under? The jews HAVE been the butt of MANY a
joke! AND persecuted for centuries. The same with the Amish, they have been
portrayed in less than flattering manners as well over and over again, but you
don't hear them crying that they are being picked on, singled out or persecuted.
Do you think they view their religious beliefs or lifestyle as any LESS sacred
than the LDS do? Again, the LDS people need to grow a sense of humor and a
thicker skin. The more you whine about it the more pathetic you look and the
more you feed those who will mock you. You don't get to set yourself on fire
and call yourselves a martyr, it simply doesn't work that way.
arl134 and Ranch hand - My, My, My do we have an axe to grind here? It's just
very sad that a musical has been developed that pokes fun and ridicules LDS
beliefs. All in the name of entertainment? But we are thick skinned, we can
take it.No unhallowed hand shall stop the work, it will roll forth
until the great Jehovah shall say the work is finished.Mark it Down.
One other thing, Joseph Smith himself taught that he would be known for good and
evil throughout the world. He knew how it would be in our day. Truly a
Brave Sir Robin,You wrote: "...based on the LDS's church
statistics from 2010, 7,671 people are joining the LDS church per week."You are misrepresenting the growth of the Church, either deliberately,
or through ignorance.If your numbers are right, it would mean
398,892 convert baptisms occurred in 2010. That is not true.In 2010,
the Church grew by 306,613. Of those, 120,528 (39.3%) were "Children of
Record", and 272,814 (89%) were "Convert Baptisms". That leaves
86,729 names removed from the Church records in 2010.That means only
about 3,579 people "joined" the Church per week, very close to the
3,324 who are watching the Musical each week.
@cymrulThe reason the Amish aren't crying that they are picked on is
because they don't use the internet.Seriously though, anyone who
thinks a few pro-Mormon comments on this message board constitutes an outcry is
I guess some people are upset that the church has grown every single week since
Common Sense in Idaho: Common sense would dictate that you are also aware of
many of the things prophesied by those claiming to be prophets of God that never
have happened. Joseph's name was already being "known for good & evil
throughout the world" at the time he was teaching that revelation, so of
course he could claim that when it was currently happening and have it look like
it was prophesy being fulfilled.
Re: "Is the 'Book of Mormon' musical accurate satire?"[Yawn] Who cares?
I realize comments here are not representative of all people, but I find it
amazing how all-knowing and snooty a lot of believing members are here. Just
because someone has another worldview about religion doesn't mean they're
uneducated. A lot of people arrive at different viewpoints from the same
studies. It's amazingly egotistical to assume your way is the only right way,
and even more injudicious to proclaim that opinion so violently. If
you really just believe, why don't you just take all these things and ponder
them in your heart? I'm not saying it's wrong to disagree with other commenters
or play-producers, but the world is certainly big enough for lots of opinions.
How could anyone not love the "I Believe" segment on the Tony awards?
This is the best recruitment tool the Mormon church ever had.
I don't know about you but I have no interest on watching any show in which the
"f" word is mentioned 49 times. Not cool!
Well, Mr. Stone and Mr. Parker, now that you've had your laugh at the expense of
my faith, I wonder if you'll be brave enough to do the same on the Koran and the
Muslim faith??? Will you do that? I bet you don't even have the gall because
you know your little behinds will be blown to pieces in a nano second. It's so
easy to mock a religion who you know will never retaliate violently to your
nonsense. Thank goodness we each will answer for ourselves in the end. Justice
will surely be served, and if this work is of the Lord, then you will certainly
find out when you face Him in the end. Good riddance!!!
To me, these things point up the importance of our focusing on and teaching
primarily the Gospel of Salvation, and not every other little social
engineering, societal platitude, or urban legend that strikes someone's fancy.
When we switch the focus to the size of beverage bottles in Utah,
"immigration" (invasion), polygamy, squabbling with the gays in
California, buying "rare documents" from a con artist, walking back to
Missouri, etc.,etc., we lose the impact of the heart of the Gospel, and give
others plenty of EASY targets to shoot at. Beyond that, let's not take anything
too seriously that comes from Broadway. Or Washington D. C.
thebigsamoan:It sounds very much like you're advocating the threat of
violence as a way to keep people from making criticisms. And I have to ask: Are
you saying that all Muslims use violence to retaliate against those who
criticize their religion? Because it sounds like you are. And your last
sentence makes it sound like you perceive God as somebody who gets his vengence
on people as well. So again, I ask you: Do Mormons believe in three
degrees of glory; the lowest of which being a place that any man would kill
himself to enter, or do Mormons believe in a fire and brimstone sort of a hell?
Please weigh your options carefully before deciding. Incidentally, Matt and Trey have been known to poke fun at just about
everybody. Not just Mormons. Isaac Hayes was all fine and good with it (and
the money it made) until they started mocking Scientology and then he up and
left. I guess some people just don't have a very good sense of humor after all.
The duty of LDS members is to Testify, to stand for truth and righteousness, not
to contend. If that has happened, there is one thing to say: the Gospel and
Church of Jesus Christ is true and perfect, people aren't. That is what the Book
of Mormon is about. It is about people like us who were on their journey to be
like Christ, but they certainly were imperfect. Like us, they struggled with
pride, power, anger, fear, light-mindedness, etc. When they yielded to such,
they never experienced long-term joy and suffered the consequences. But they
were the happiest when they received a personal witness of the Truth and lived
by that testimony. The invitation is to do your part, open your heart and ask
until you receive an answer. I testify that God does answer. Joseph himself said
he wouldn't have believed it if he hadn't experienced it himself.Once you know
the Truth, you know that God does not mock or play with anything sacred and
there are consequences for those that do, sooner or later. "If there is
anything..of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."
Don P. If I was the mission president in New York City, I would station
missionaries outside the theater after each performance handing out the Book of
Mormon to each theater patron under a banner saying "You've seen the play,
now read the book". Would do the same for the Bible? When Jesus
Christ was portrayed as a Superstar instead of God in the flesh(John
1:1,1:14)God became man,not man becomes God. Some lyrics, "Do you
think you're what they say you are? Jesus Christ Superstar, Do you think you're
what they say you are"? And they mock him as well,"Come on
God this is not like you, Let us know what you're gonna do."You know what
your supporters feel, You'll escape in the final reel."The play Jesus
Christ superstar is offensive to Christians, I dont know about Mormons.
Low brow humor. Wow, here is a great and spacious building, with no foundation,
filled with people pointing and mocking. Don't heed them. It amazes me that
profane "entertainment" like this actually sells. To each his/her
Interesting and ironic... what escaped Trey and Matt is that the Book of Mormon
(the book) gives quite an accurate illustration of those standing in that great
and spacious building, mocking those who seek the love of God. According to that
book, great shall be the fall.
A Scientist posted: That leaves 86,729 names removed from the Church records in
2010.==========================removed doesn't mean they were all
requests for name removal. I bet old age/natural death removed more. ;-)
Kjallbee, I don't see winning 9 Tonys after a successful career heading up South
Park and other projects as a great fall, and I doubt Trey and Matt do, either.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for their fall. Perhaps you'll
be right in the end, and they'll be punished in the next life, but they seem
pretty happy in this one. I can't speak for them, but I would guess being happy
and fulfilled in this life is good enough for them, since there are no definites
about the next.
Music Satire,The play Jesus Christ superstar is offensive to Christians, I dont
know about Mormons.Don P. If I was the mission president in New York City,
I would station missionaries outside the theater after each performance handing
out the Book of Mormon to each theater patron under a banner saying "You've
seen the play, now read the book". Would do the same for the Bible?
When Jesus Christ was portrayed as a Superstar instead of God in the flesh(John
1:1, 1:14)God became man,not man becomes God. Some lyrics, Do you think you're
what they say you are? Jesus Christ Superstar.
As long as we don't take it serious, the mocking of someone's sacred beliefs is
not only acceptable but even cool and widely popular within some circles. The
parody can even be ignorant, intolerant and foul as long as is directed at the
right group of people and done in order to "enlighten" the world.
Funny makes everything okay. This is "an atheist celebration of
religion". Which religion or set of beliefs is next? Maybe someone will
mock atheists beliefs as funny and ridiculously silly.
These guys are much more than just potty humor and profanity. Don't get me
wrong, those are elements to their work, but not the main tool. I think many of
you would enjoy the episode titled Margaritaville, talking about the economic
downturn and the different ways people reacted to it. I also love
those "daring" Matt and Trey to mock Islam. Uhm... they already have.
Plenty of times. So much so that their producers made them stop after threats
against them and the company. If they had it their way they would continue to
poke fun.In truth, that is all they really do, poke fun. Never any
HARSH insults or slams; mostly pointing out humor in the things we already see
on a daily basis. They may exaggerate them, but mostly it is backed up what is
We all remember how the LDS church mobilized its members in support of a certain
proposition in California a little while ago, right? Isn't it fair to consider
the idea that a considerable amount of people in the Broadway community and fan
base would love to see some vengeance dealt on the church for that? What better
vehicle for revenge than dishing out 9 Tony's to a romping musical mockery of
the church? I'm not saying the artistry of the musical wasn't deserving, but it
really hit the stage at the perfect moment didn't it?
moniker lewinsky: "Finally, if Mormon doctrine depicts a kinder view of
heaven and hell, why do so many LDS feel that it's such a tragedy when a family
member leaves the faith? How can one feel that it is possible for
"worthy" people to "visit down" and, at the same time,
believe that all is lost within the family unit if not everybody remains
faithful? This is just me thinking out loud, but sometimes I wonder if LDS
believe their own doctrines. The fear expressed seems to go better with a fire
and brimstone version of the afterlife. It certainly doesn't covey hope or
mercy."Thank you, moniker! I've wondered this myself. I'm a
convert to the LDS Church from another religion (I won't say which one, for fear
of starting stereotypes). Some in my family acted like it was a tragedy when I
left their faith. With the teachings of the plan of salvation, I see no reason
for LDS to do the same. It shouldn't even be seen as an automatic ticket to a
"lower kingdom." I believe God is more powerful than that.
Have not seen it. I am waiting for the sequel, wherein Messrs Stone & Parker
utilize their wares to ply their satire of innocent, impish, silly fun to spoof
the Koran. Perhaps they will be so amusing that others will laugh their heads
right off. Wonder if they'll be awarded another "Phony" award, hmmm?
This is not just poking fun. This is about an attitude. An attitude of disrepect
toward religion and anything else that Trey and Parker. They have called people
who really believe in the Mormon religion (and probably other religions) as
demented. They are "enlightened" atheists.
Satire and fiction fit well together. The musical is delightful however.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned."1 Cor 2:14
I can tell that by the posts so far that both sides are going to weigh in
heavily about this "musical". The fact that they used the opinion of
a person who left the church after his mission some how gives them credibility
doesn't go unnoticed. Now there is an unbiased opinion. I just don't
understand why mormons in the public eye would be hesitant to discuss their
religon with a reporter... go figure. Plus there is the "my cousin is
married to a mormon" credibility Line. thats always a good one. This
remindes me of the river in Lehi's dream.
As a faithful, Temple-worthy Latter-day Saint, I am sickened and appalled by the
disrespect of this musical. It should be outlawed as hate speech!I
was also disgusted by the inaccuracies of Shakespeare's sacred works in Kiss Me
Kate, and Cole Porter's offensive lyrics that poked fun at Lassie, who holds a
special place in the hearts of all true Americans.The hatred and
bigotry displayed by those fowl Broadway bad-people in their horrible mocking
portrayals of the moral works of The Brothers Grimm in that revolting musical,
Into the Woods, proves their debased sense of what is "artistic". I
will never forgive Stephen Sondheim for his participation in such disrespectful,
inaccurate prejudice and bigotry.The sordid and filthy way Broadway
producers mocked that sacred institution, Sesame Street in their appalling
"Avenue Q" just repulses me.And don't get me started about
Urinetown, Spamalot, Hairspray, How to Succeed in Business Without Really
Trying, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Phantom of the Opera, Cats, Little Shop of
Horrors, The Producers, and especially that travesty A Funny Thing Happened on
the Way to the Forum.Have these people no decency?
i highly doubt any of you posters have taken the time to understand this
musical. i have seen it on Broadway. It's mostly accurate, with a few liberties
taken for dramatic purposes. It is not blasphemous if you really understand what
is happening. To answer the author's question with a question: Does it need to
be accurate? Can't a musical be as silly as religion is?
LDSareChristians,"removed doesn't mean they were all requests
for name removal. I bet old age/natural death removed more."I
never said otherwise, did I. What is your point?
A new spin on "The Mormon Musical." I have read so many of your
comments and I find it interesting that only a hand full, if that, has not seen
this musical. As a faithful member of LDS Church in the Northeast. You all might
be interested to know that our Missionary effort for teaching has increased
since the musical hit the big stage. People of all walks of life come out of the
musical and are contacting the missionary's. At first, we as members were very
worried about this musical and the negative impact that it would have on the
church. Not so......The Lord is so smart. Instead, people are having their
hearts opened to learn and become familiar with the church and that it did start
here in the great state of New York.Yes, the musical is filled with
expletives, slang and grunge church banter. To be frankly honest, there are
things in this musical only Members would understand. So when the Director's
hear laughing coming at those parts, they know that members are in the audience.
They almost follow you out of the Theater to get your reaction. The missionary
effort is going strong!
When I first read about this, I thought "What a couple of bigots."
But, then I realized that this will probably do more to interest people in the
Book of Mormon than sway them against it. It just seems that when the church
takes hits, a lot of times, some good comes from it. After all, anyone who has
a bias against the church already HAS a bias against the church and this show
just feeds what they already believe. Others will likely think, "I wonder
what Mormons and their church are really like?" and will try to find out.
After all, the mobs thought they killed the church with Joseph over 150 years
ago, now its all over the world.
If I were NYC mission president I would send pairs of missionaries to stand out
front of the theater, offering free Books of Mormon and tracts to the arriving
attendees. Not sure if this has been said. Couldn't make it through the 143
comments. Sorry if so.
I am not offended at all by their play, but I know I would never treat the
heart-felt beliefs of others with such cold disrespect. The play is irrelevant.
People who are inclined to see others as their inferiors will continue to enjoy
shows like that. The rest will hopefully find someone like me waiting anxiously
to explain the facts.And for those of you posters who are so sure
that there is an alternate history to the LDS Church, the reality is that you
chose which history to believe and it was the one that suited you best. I have
read a ton of what is being claimed out there and I have yet to see anything
from opponents of the church that proved them more accurate with the facts.
Where do we check the comment box "Who cares"?
JRJ - why in the world would you be wasting your time and mine with that
comment. Surely, you have something better to do with your time...
I read many of the comments and am pleased that most LDS don't seem too upset by
this satire, even though it takes making fun too far. I also notice that many
of the anti-Mormons seem pleased that Mormons, Joseph Smith's martyrdom, faith,
and religion are being denigrated. They also seem to hope that LDS will be angry
about this, so project closed mindedness and their own anger onto LDS. ; )atl134 I don't think anyone is saying that all who disbelieve the Book
of Mormon are hateful. There was a time in my life when I didn't believe it, but
I wasn't hateful, and came around. You also mention the Smithsonian. There are
several good articles about that, the only one I remember by title is by a
prominent scholar named Wade Miller it's called "Science and the Book of
Mormon" I believe it's on FAIR lds, or Maxwell ; ).IndependentUtahn thinks both sides have to admit to wrongdoing if we want
peace. I'm not sure...even if Jews said it was wrong to keep priesthood to one
race, stone adulterers, etc I still doubt it would have stopped Nazi scientists
from their experiment in unnatural selection
I just figured out a way to answer the main question to the Book of Mormon
musical: Can religion really solve our every day problems? For the sake of not
getting this comment denied lets say you gets some kind of skin infection. How
can religion help you get rid of the infection? Well I have the solution. You
just divide people into two groups. One to use religious methods to cure the
infection. And one group to get antibiotics, wound care, etc. Run some
statistics and see which is more effective.
Contrary to what one poster accuse me of, I wasn't lying in my previous post.
To the rest who responded, thanks for the kind words. I wish I had received
that testimony. It's undeniable the BoM is filled with good teachings, but so
is the New Testament, Torah, Rig Veda, the Buddhist sutras, and the Upanishads.
Mormonism doesn't monopolize good teachings. I needed that testimony to help me
deal with some troubling historical and doctrinal issues, but it never came
despite my desperate attempt to gain one. I came to this thread to add my voice
about the positive side of the musical. I do find it kind of therapeutic. Even
though, in hindsight, I do now find some elements of the Mormon story to be kind
of silly, the musical makes me miss my fellow church members. Mormons really
are some of the nicest people around, exactly like the Southpark dudes keep
saying. It's undeniable. If only the church didn't have all of that other
"seek for a testimony", "I know the church is true",
"here's how you detect personal revelation" stuff in the curriculum.
I might come back if it was all eliminated permanently.
Found it highly, HIGHLY interesting that some "artists"(Trey Parker
and Matt Stone)can write/say ANYTHING at all they want about Mormons for the
sake of laughs on Broadway----and that "artist" Tracy
Morgan CAN'T say anything he wants about gays as a stand up comic.Wow--bit of a double standard there, don't you think??
The song on the Tony's was spot on!
When will the road show be at the Capitol?
These producers, Hollywood, and others in theatre claimed they did their
homework with barack....just goes to show living in a fantasy world of pretend
is much different than real life.You would think coming from the
"elite" of the world, that they would be culturally sensitive to the
people of Africa, people of faith etc. Once again they show that even with
their careful studying they manage to stereotype and insert their own racism
into the show.Of course they just claim it's joking around and
having fun. It's satire!I suppose hate groups can claim the same
thing when they burn a cross, put a noose on a tree, paint themselves....The left is progressing quickly backwards in time. Shouldn't they be
moving forward? The left should be known as the digressive movement.
@windsor;Tracy Morgan advocated in his standup "stabbing his
gay son to death".The Mormon musical doesn't advocate killing
mormons.If you can't see the difference, well...
Being curious is a natural human characteristic and people will be curious as
Mormonism gets more PR from the play and Romney. With the help of the internet,
people will be able to do much more research and the church cannot hide as much
as it used to in the past. Active Mormons will see that their church manuals and
other teaching materials are sanitized and whitewashed and do not contain the
truth (the BY priesthood/RS manual does not mention him as having several wives
which was taught as doctrine to obtain exaltation, the vile things said by
so-called men of God about Black people,etc.) Non-Mormons would be able to find
out what the church really is...a house of lies built on sandy foundation. I
used to be such a believer and defender of the faith too....I endured 25 years
of lies. No more.
Anyone familiar with Parker and Stone knows that they did, in fact, mock the
Muslim faith in an episode of South Park but were censored by the studio. In
fact, all the other major religions have been treated much worse than Mormons in
that regard. In fact, the Mormon kid in that episode has the last laugh by
telling one of the main characters:"Look, maybe us Mormons do
believe in crazy stories that make absolutely no sense, and maybe Joseph Smith
did make it all up, but I have a great life. and a great family, and I have the
Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I don't care if Joseph Smith
made it all up, because what the church teaches now is loving your family, being
nice and helping people. And even though people in this town might think that's
stupid, I still choose to believe in it. All I ever did was try to be your
friend, Stan, but you're so high and mighty you couldn't look past my religion
and just be my friend back. You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy".
This musical has helped me see Mormons in a much better light than I did when
all I had to remember Mormons by was my childhood being raised in the Church,
and the memory of the total abandonment I experienced at the age of 15, after I
had the audacity to fall in love with another girl. I got thrown out of the
house and all of my friends abandoned me. This has made it very difficult for me
to acknowledge the positive aspects of the religion. Ironically, the production
complained of in this article and so vehemently in the comments (by people who
have never even listened to it in its entirety, no less), has helped me love
Mormons again. Praise be to Joseph! American Prophet Man!
I noticed that some of our anti-Mormon friends pretended to be irate or
otherwise offensive LDS. Im guessing the real LDS responses werent what they
hoped for, so they made some up again, as usual ; ). I wasnt sure
why they needed to do this, so googled the medved article:He says :"The Book of Mormon."...depicts clueless missionariesMormon
prophet Joseph Smith as a con man..." (it apparently also mocks his murder
and harshly pokes fun of other non-funny things)."The LDS
church didnt...denounce...faithful Mormons...traveled far to see it...The
contrast between Mormon and Islamic responses to provocation shows the
difference between people who are secure and confident in their faith...and
those treating...disrespect as potentially lethal to an ancient but troubled
religion."I also noticed there is a continuation of discussion
by those who seem to believe that claiming that they never got an answer to
prayers will lead those who have to their disbelief. Those claiming this Mike
Ash articles often admit they once testified they knew the Book was true. Not
sure if they lied then, or now, but it doesn't change the fact that God speaks
Here is a partial list of accurate doctrinal, cultural, and historic portrayals
in the Book of Mormon musical:1. Joseph Smith claimed to have talked to
God.2. Joseph Smith claimed to have found gold plates in upstate New York
containing a history of an ancient people who lived on the American
continent.3. Joseph Smith claimed that an angel named Moroni appeared to
him and informed him about the people who wrote the plates.4. Joseph Smith
claimed to be a prophet.5. Joseph Smith led his people on westward
migrations.6. Joseph Smith was killed by an angry mob.7. Brigham
Young led the Mormons after Joseph's death.8. Mormons believe that
ancient Jews built boats and came to the Americas.9. Mormons leaders have
taught that the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, MO.10. Mormon
leaders have taught that God changed his mind about black people in 1978
(priesthood ban lifted).11. Mormon leaders have taught that Mormons can
one day have their own planet.12. Mormons believe it is not a sin to have
homosexual thoughts, but that engaging in homosexual actions are sinful.13. Mormons believe doubt is bad, belief is good.
Even more accurate doctrinal, historic, and cultural portrayals in the Book of
Mormon musical:14. The Book of Mormon says that Jesus Christ came to the
Americas.15. The Book of Mormon says that God cursed the Lamanites with a
skin of blackness.16. Mormons believe that the current prophet, Thomas S.
Monson, speaks to God.17. Mormon missionaries receive training in a
missionary training center.18. It is against mission rules for a
missionary to leave his companion.19. It is against mission rules to leave
your apartment after a certain hour.20. A person joins the Mormon church
by being baptized by immersion, which baptism may be performed by a
missionary.21. Brigham Young led the Mormons west to Utah, where they
built Salt Lake City.22. "The most important time in a Mormon kid's
life is his mission."23. Mormon missionaries are motivated by a
desire to help save mankind.24. Mormon missionaries do not have final say
in where they are assigned to serve.25. Mormons believe that if you are
righteous and pray for something, God will provide it.26. Mormons believe
that confirmation of the Book of Mormon's truthfulness comes through spiritual
And even more accurate doctrinal, historical, and cultural portrayals of Mormons
in the Book of Mormon musical:27. Some missionaries have leadership
aspirations and get carried away with their self-image and goals.28.
Mormons tend to take a literalistic approach to interpreting scripture, meaning
that they tend to believe stories in scripture were real historic events.29. Mormon missionaries who break mission rules sometimes experience intense
guilt.30. Mormons who are attracted to people of the same sex attempt to
overcome that attraction.31. Mormons believe in both the Bible and the
Book of Mormon.32. Mormons wear special religious underwear.33.
Some Mormon missionaries are unprepared, clumsy, and may not have even read the
Book of Mormon before serving a mission.34. Mormons believe you can live
with your family and friends forever.35. Mormons are generally very
polite, nice, well-intentioned, dedicated, sincere people who are doing what
they believe is right--even if it seems strange to others.I could go
on, but suffice it to say, the knee-jerk reaction to cry "persecution"
and complain of inaccuracies is unmerited. In fact, people will be more willing
to talk to Mormon missionaries after seeing it.
Loved my vacation in Calif. No one even knows about this stuff there, let alone
I love the fact that the LDS Church is taking advantage of all the free
publicity. I think what is missing here is one of the greatest gifts God gave to
us......A Sense of Humour! I am a writer of screenplays and my new novel that
was just released, The STALLION WARRIORS is a creative piece of work. The Book
of Mormon musical, like most forms of entertainment allows us to look at the
human side of life regardless of where it comes from. Geesh, this looks like a
gift to the Mormon Church with all the attention it is getting. The missionaries
are sure to make some new friends with this one! Celebrate and be grateful they
chose the Book of Mormon. See it for what it is; A musical!
Very well said Andrew Ainsworth!As someone who grew up LDS, in Utah
I can completely get the accurate satire of this musical. For all of the people
out there who are offended, get over yourself. Sometimes the truth hurts when
it is about things you are uncomfortable to begin with. And, yes, the Mormon
Religion does have some weird beliefs and cultural quirks. If you are going to
continue to practice this religion, you need to understand ALL of it's history
(not just the sanitized version we get in Seminary and Institute). Defending
the faith and denying the reality has gotten many LDS members in way over their
heads. I may not agree with some of the language used in this musical, but I
can certainly appreciate it for what it is. A satire, not a documentary. I
can't wait till it comes to DC.By the way, I have always hated
Saturday's Warrior. I grew up with people going to see it "feeling the
spirit" and taking it for doctrinal accuracy. I remember gospel doctrine
teachers who would use it for teaching purposes. It was one of the few things I
was allowed to watch on Sundays.
I can promise this show is NOT an accurate depiction of LDS doctrine or culture,
not even close!What a farce to even print that.
I have been in the Church all my life. I was recently on a vacation to New York,
New York. I was given tickets to the Book of Mormon musical. (I thought it was
tickets to something over to the ward.) Well, I have to say that although I was
surprised by what I saw on that stage, it was a pleasant surprise. Why, all
those kids singing and dancing about the Church! And the energy! Sure, there
were a few swear words, but not as many as I've heard at some "Church
ball" games I've been to! This new play shows that we Mormons can go to the
ends of the Earth, such as Africa, to help others in need, not to mention make a
few happy converts along the way! Oh, I enjoyed my evening at the theater ever
so much! I encourage you to see this play and to tell others of it. Or just
listen to the music! Either way, you will hear some beautiful new songs about
our missionaries in the field today. Thank you. --Sarah
Musical creators gave credit to Joseph Smith, I think it only right that they
pay 10 percent of the take to the Mormon Church.
some teachings really are True.the trick is figuring out which ones.
I was offended by the Newsweek cover. I wonder how the dominant
culture would feel if their religion were mocked that way, and their famous
members were mocked that way. Newsweek is supposed to be about news, not
satire.I would bet on a mob of angry Baptists if someone wrote a
mockery of their sect as a musical comedy.The Newsweek cover was
shameful.I read that the creators of South Park have suddenly stopped
producing new shows. I suppose they think they have a new career in
"legitimate theater". I have more tolerance for a theatrical
production of that ilk, than I do for a supposed news organization mocking a
religion and one of its famous members.
I am glad to see so many positive interpretations by the posters on this thread,
of the musical and its presentation of members of the LDS.
I know that the mission of the LDS Church will move forward, but that does not
mean I find any good out of the obvious negative attack on the LDS Church this
musical provides. Why would anyone want to write such a play about any religion?
The only motive is negative in purpose. I would hope that religion can be
appreciated for the good it can provide. Why can't the authors of this musical
focus on that? The answer is they obviously don't like the LDS Church for some
reason. If I saw a musical like this about any church, I would find it offensive
and disrespectful. That is why this musical should not be supported. LDS people should not get proud thinking that this will somehow turn out to be
positive. A negative musical show is what it is -- negative. Yes, positives can
be generated through religious interest, but I would just rather have such
negatives (like this musical) removed from our lives. It is a religious attack
on the LDS Church and hopefully people will ignore it. I
respectfully request that all in our society vote with their pocketbooks to not
attend this disrespectful production.