Comments about ‘Role reversal: Gay-rights advocates 'not tolerant'’

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Published: Saturday, June 11 2011 11:38 p.m. MDT

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isrred
Logan, UT

" It is not hate for people; it is disgust from the perverse acts performed that define what you are."

It's a sad indictment on your character and the fragility of your humanity that you believe deep love, commitment, and selfless sacrifice between two human beings to be perverse. A God that would be angered over two of his children loving each other to the utmost extent possible is not a being worthy of worship or adoration.

isrred
Logan, UT

"You say that the LDS church donated money in the fight for Prop 8 but that claim is absolutely, positively NOT true."

The campaign disclosure forms submitted by the LDS church itself, as well as the fines imposed on the Church by the California election commission for improper filings, say otherwise.

Dan Maloy
Enid, OK

Read this through several times:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant [my insert here: I agree with the article; the "intolerant" these days is largely the pro-homosexual crowd], if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." - Karl Popper

Now, I am not suggesting in any way that we not tolerate homosexuals by their persecution and death, that obviously is evil in the extreme, too. However, I AM saying that conservatives and the anti-homosexual marriage crowd have every right, and even a moral obligation in the name of tolerance, to not tolerate immoral behavior; to not just roll over and give up in any fight concerning right and wrong.

In the future, homosexuals in America may very well gain the legal right to enter into 'marriage', but that doesn't make homosexual activity moral nor does it mean conservatives must just give up the fight against evil.

TJ
Eagle Mountain, UT

According to the bible homosexuality is "an abomination in the sight of God". Of course if we say anything about that we are being hateful but if the gay comminity says opposition is being hateful our comments don't get approved. I am on Gods side. Love all his children but condemn immoral behavior.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'You say that the LDS church donated money in the fight for Prop 8 but that claim is absolutely, positively NOT true.' - The Caravan Moves On | 6:44 p.m. June 12, 2011

About that...

*'Mormon Church agrees to pay small fine for mistake that led to late report of contributions in Prop. 8 campaign' - by Scott Taylor - DSNews - 06/09/10

'As the state agency for interpreting and enforcing California's campaign finance rules, the FPPC identified 13 instances of "nonmonetary late contributions made and not timely reported" or the church failing to file daily reports detailing $36,928 in in-kind contributions, including the cost of staff time spent by church employees to help the "Yes on 8" committee.' - Article

The LDS church has gone on record for almost $200,000. It's MEMBERS, donated much more.

And DSNews, this is a fact, reported by you. Don't deny this post due to bias.

When making the CLAIM that the LDS church 'didn't donate funds to support Prop 8'...?

Make sure they are TRUE.

It is not. They did. Accept it, or make your objection known.

The Caravan Moves On
Enid, OK

@ isrred | 7:18 p.m. June 12, 2011

You're talking about the Church's payment of airline tickets for LDS officials to and from California and other administrative-type expenses.

The LDS church did not take any money and dump it into the Prop 8 fight in the manner you claim. If you disagree, by all means, cite your historical sources: government documents, dates, form numbers, signatures of LDS officals, dollar amounts, etc.

Come on, you made your claim first, prove it.

KJB1
Eugene, OR

So, A Guy With A Brain, what exactly is wrong for a private company to fire someone solely for being a Mormon?

Is this not America?

If I run a company, MY company, don't I have a right to operate my the way I see fit?

And yes, if I worked for a company run by a Mormon and they fired me because I opposed Mormon activity, then yes, they have that right to do that as well.

Again, isn't this America?

DanO
Mission Viejo, CA

The Caravan Moves On, whether the Church donates the money directly or instructs it members to do so, the end result and the intentions are the same. The Church just used its people and its people were just happy to oblige.

And "A Guy With A Brain", replace homosexual with any other minority (Black, Jewish, Mormon) in your scenario and ask if it's not wrong to fire someone because who they are not their capabilities.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Back to the claim that the LDS church did 'not' donate to support Prop 8...

*'LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K' - By Lynn Arave - DSNews - 02/03/2009

'"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has filed the final report of its contributions all of which were nonmonetary to the ProtectMarriage coalition," said Scott Trotter, church spokesman. "The report, submitted in advance of the Jan. 31 deadline, details in-kind donations totaling $189,903.58.'

The LDS church made continual refferences that it's donation was 'less than 1%' when compared with other donations...

while 1) Trying to distance itself from the fact that a religion DONATED on a very much politcal issue in another state, California

and 2) That it did NOT take into account the donations of it's members. Who make up less than 2% of California's population.

I Choose Freedom
Atlanta, GA

Jesus Christ will soon return to the earth. He will resolve this issue once and for all. He will not conduct any polls. He will not ask for a vote. He will not be swayed by majority opinion. When He comes, EVERY knee will bow and the wicked who refuse to repent will be destroyed. I recognize that I have room for much improvement in my life. But I am not trying to change His word to fit my behavior. I am trying to change my behavior to fit His word. That is the only path to true happiness and eternal life. There is no valid alternative!

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

I don't understand why people want to deny the LDS Church's role in defeating Prop 8. The LDS Church was heavily involved in the campaign and was public about its support. The Church leaders urged its members to donate time and means (money) in support of Prop 8. Church members appeared in the commercials. A Church member wrote the "Six Consequences if Prop 8 Passes" missive. A group, "Mormons for Proposition 8" reported:
"As of Nov. 8, 2008, there are 6,585 total donations of $1,000 or more listed here. Of those, 3,365 (51%) have been identified as Mormon/likely Mormon. These donations represent $15,305,050.17, or 48% of all donations."

So, own it. Own the success of the campaign. As every Mormon knows we have a very effective ability to organize and raise money.

Taking a stance means risk.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Vandalism and violence are against the law and should be prosecuted.

As for me, I chose not to suuport Prop 8.

Tekakaromatagi
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia

With regards to the comment that it is OK to fire someone because they are gay, I disagree. I don't know if it is illegal but I think that it would be termination without cause and that could result in a lawsuit.

Tekakaromatagi

very concerned
Sandy, UT

Certain things have always been wrong/immoral and always will be: Theft of what is not yours, lying, etc. etc. come to mind. Just because the gay community currently tries to couch their behavior in terms of "individual rights", or whatever terms/philosophies will hit the most buttons doesn't mean it's OK.

But, I will agree that this whole argument (and others like it) depend on whether you believe in God and His prophet. If yes, the path is clear. If no, then I suppose that path is inevitable as well.

I DO believe in God and His prophet. I feel fortunate to do so. It lends great peace, focus, and happiness to my life.

Hellooo
Salt Lake City, UT

The only public opinion polls that are real are those that take place in
the isolation of the voting booth. To date in the US, every time gay marriage has come to the vote of the people, it has been rejected. This in spite of widespread media support, the lock step education lobby of the NEA, and the well funded advocate groups. It will be interesting to see, if that changes based on these new poll findings.

coleman51
Orem, UT

It is apparent that the Deseret News editors reject that same-sex attraction is an addictive behavior. I would suggest that you read "Letter From One In Recovery From Same-Sex Attraction" page 305 in the book, He Restoreth My Soul, by Donald L. Hilton Jr., M.D. You will find that the same chemical processes that affect those who are addicted to pornography and other sex addictions are the same that govern same-sex attraction. Rather than hide you heads in the sand, you need to look at the problem clearly for what it is. Homosexuality is a sex addiction and to grant those afflicted with it the same rights as someone with normal heterosexual behavior would be the same as granting rights to any other form of sex addiction no matter how egregious and criminal the behavior might be.

KamUte
South Jordan, UT

I for one love all but have no tolerance for acts I believe to be wrong. I believe homosexuality is wrong. As the vice president of a large company, my right hand man was homosexual. He grew up back East with a conservative family that has shunned him. I don't know all the facts. I know he is a great worker but he and I will never see eye to eye with respects to morality and partnership views.

sjgf
South Jordan, UT

@DanO

"Replace homosexual with any other minority (Black, Jewish, Mormon)"

You can't do that. Being black, or white, or some other race, is not a choice. Being Jewish or Mormon has elements of choice and elements of indoctrination by the familial society into which one is born.

However, choosing to be public about being homosexual is strictly a choice. (I don't think very many people concern themselves about people with homosexual inclinations as long as they keep it private. It is when they become so proud of their inclinations that they announce it to the world and make a big deal about it that people have concerns.)

Being "in your face" homosexual is definitely a choice.

Being black or white or some other race is not a choice.

You are not comparing apples to apples.

People should not discriminate based on things that people have no choice over, such as race or gender. But a decision to be "in your face" about something people consider a vice will offend people and cause them to want to distance themselves from such a person.

Homosexuals should learn to not be "in your face" about their vices.

christoph
Brigham City, UT

Organizations without a leader and without unity will disappear; if such an organization is wrong, it will play out over time. If you truly believe your way is the right way, then be at peace. If you feel you are right, then you don't ever need to argue. Not all gays are alike, some oppose gay marriage and are embarrassed by those having to be "even" at everything in society.

Kevin J. Kirkham
Salt Lake City, UT

panamadesnews
Yes, these pro gay rights persons have the right to say or do what they want so long as they do not infringe upon our rights. But we also have the right to say and do what we want, so long as we do not infringe on their rights. ...Let us remember that important teaching in the scriptures. May righteousness prevail.

KJK
I agree 100%. Both sides should use kindness, gentleness, meekness, persuasion, long suffering, etc... to convince people. May both sides eschew force and treat all equally. We LDS may not believe same-sex marriage is correct, but we don't believe in the Athanasian Trinity, Calvin's TULIP, women clergy, infant baptism, etc..., but we tolerate them. We should likewise treat SSM. Allow it and try to persuade those with Same-sex attraction to resist yielding to it.

SSm advocates are not asking anything different than what we LDS asked for 125 years ago regarding our own unique form of marriage.

slcskp
Mukilteo, WA

Wow, thanks so much, unnamed persons on this board, for highlighting what "tolerance" means to you and your fellow believers: the right to call gays "abominable", "abnormal", "perverse", leading our fair Republic to "the brink of disaster".

And thanks, Deseret News comments board moderators, for validating their vitriol as the sort of civil discourse that you're willing to post.

So, for the aforementioned-but-nameless posters (to comply with the rules of the DesNews comments moderators against inappropriately inflaming people by using their names):

1) Under the freedom of speech (and religion) rights guaranteed by the First Amendment, you can continue to call gays the hateful, bigoted names like what you've used on this board.
2) Under those same rights, we can continue to call you out as hateful bigots.

Everybody wins!

And "tolerance" of one another's disparate beliefs and practices demands no less. When the gays start circulating petitions among the electorate to dissolve LDS marriages and interfere in your families, then we can have a legitimate discussion about how gay people and their supporters are just as intolerant as you are.

Do we have a deal?

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