LOL!!! Are these two having a debate or a love fest.......its like listening to
two guys fighting over who is the bigger dope! At least give us a debate before
you post a story ...this is like watching MSNBC
Love how the main stream middle is now describe as the "far right".
Not much demeaning in that term. Really, why doesn't the article say it is the
"far left" extremist political establishment that....
The overt and outright bias in this article is amazing. So any citizen in Utah
who against mass amnesty for illegal criminals is an "extremist" or
"far right" wacko? Wow, the deseret news has truly reached a new low,
and it's telling of how desperate the open borders/mexican reconquista crowd
really is. EVERY Utahn I know of is law abiding, and is against amnesty for
illegals. None of them that I know are "far right", racist, or
"extremist". Delegates: Do the right thing and throw
this amnesty monstrosity in the trash can where it belongs. Don't let the
biased media, or some pressure groups push you around. Remember who it is that
you work for.
My own hope is that HB116 will be repealed and that this will be one more nail
in the Republican Party's coffin. I'm hoping that the Far Right, who for some
unknown reason consider themselves mainstream, will tip so even farther to the
right so that they finally rip the Republican Party in half, thus restoring
balance to Utah politics.
The thing that is not mentioned here is that the practical, state-based,
solution to the immigration problem was actually spearheaded and introduced to
the legislature by the Utah democratic representative Luz Robles.
countryscotty | 9:58 a.m. June 12, 2011 Orem, Ut HB116 needs
to be repealed. I am ashamed to be LDS. .....Bazinga |
8:03 a.m. June 13, 2011 Taylorsville, UT So, since I want to
follow the guidance of my church, I feel the correct thing to do is repeal H.B.
116. ================== Amazing.Political
ideology ahead of official LDS Statements.All I can ask is this:#4 ...Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities
of the Church?#7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any
group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those
accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?But
since you don't drink Coca-Cola, so you feel you are fully Temple worthy,
right?Sad -- I will continue my prayers for the Latter-Day Nephites.
Isn't it AMAZING how much support lawbreakers receive from the media?Others have ALREADY EXPRESSED most of the points that I could make.I would only add that I was taught to "honor, obey, and sustain" the
law of the land.The Obey part to me is obvious.The
"honor, and sustain" part to me means we should elect those persons
would work to uphold the laws and in some cases, fire from employment those who
refuse to enforce laws (police chiefs).The pandering to illegal alien
trespassers and trying to make all sorts of excuses for NOT enforcing the law
has got to stop.Passing a whole new set of "feel good", but
meaningless and worthless laws doesn't help much either!
One argument that I don't see anywhere from the LDS church's recent press
release was that they clearly stated that immigration was a federal issue.
Hence, any attempt to tackle this at the state level could be seen as a direct
contradiction to the church statement. Sure the statement only specifies the
"enforcement only" type bills, but, for me, it also includes states
creating quazi-amnesty bills.So, since I want to follow the guidance
of my church, I feel the correct thing to do is repeal H.B. 116.
Love this quote:"The LDS Church could not be more explicit in
supporting the package of immigration-related bills that passed in this year's
legislative session, including HB116. Anyone who suggests otherwise doesn't
understand plain English, is playing games or is flat out lying."I was at the Utah County GOP convention and the question of LDS support
*never* came up officially in all the heated official debates. It seemed nobody
wanted to deal with the, erm, "elephant in the room." Neither the
supporters nor the opposition.Maybe now, with two more official
communications on the subject, delegates can at least tackle the question. Why
does the LDS church support the thing?I'm hoping that -- regardless
of religious affiliation -- more delegates might take a moment to soberly
reflect on the actual messages explaining why the LDS Church supports HB116 and
possibly re-consider their own rhetoric on it.
country scotty 9:58 you sadly are so correct. The pressure they used to
intimidate the legislators was unbelievable.
It is amazing to me how many who generally hate any political involvement from
the LDS church are suddenly thrilled about church support for amnesty.Similarly even as LDS Church members who agreed with the church on Prop 8 were
called lemmings and those who disagreed were praised as being independent and
open minded, suddenly all church members are supposed to agree 100% with the
political views of the LDS church on HB 116 and any who disagree are
castigated.When the men I sustain as Prophets stand up in general
conference or put their signatures under a letter to be read over the pulpit
telling members that the good Lord wants us to support amnesty, I'll consider it
my religious duty to support amnesty.Until then, I'm not inclined to
let a bunch of PR people, lawyers, or those with close associations with the
chamber of commerce dictate my political views with mere press releases.If this is doctrinal, put it over the pulpit.Otherwise,
expect that there will be some honest political disagreement....just as liberals
want there to be when the church takes a conservative political position.
Majority of Utahns and Americans are against amnesty, which HB 116 is. When
someone comes here illegally to work, and we allow them to stay and work, it's
amnesty. I see both commentators support a sub class of worker for
the Salt Lake Chamber. That is not something to be proud of. Neither should
ignoring the 9% of America that is out of work. This legislation is
anything but fair, it gives welfare labor to the business community. It's not
innovative or courageous. It's not compassionate to those out of work, or those
who lose their jobs, or depressed wages caused by the glut of labor, or to the
people waiting in line in other countries to come here legally. It's dishonest
and creating a sub class of labor is a disgrace.
Utah is controlled by the radical right not Republicans.
The arrogance of these two is amazing, anyone who disagrees with their open
borders amnesty rhetoric is off base. If anyone is misguided it's these two. As
for who controls the party I think it will be clear on Saturday that delegates
are going to oppose HB116 and not care what the Church, the Chamber, or anyone
else says, the only ones who count in our Democracy are the people and we are
fed up with all these groups telling us what to do and believe. The motives of
all these groups are suspect, the fact is the majority of Utahns have had enough
of illegals and their supporters. Turning Utah into a sanctuary state is the
only thing that will come of it all.
One of the first tactics for those losing an argument is to start the name
calling. "Far right" (ie. extremists, facist, racist, etc.) have been
thrown around a lot in this particular question about those who are taking
advantage of our country and system. I am a registered Democrat and far from
"far right". There are many of us who see this as what is fair, what
is right for Utah, and what is right for our country. If you are name calling,
you have already lost the argument. Down with HB116 and vote out those who would
compromise what is right for a cheaper than cheap labor underclass that we all
end up paying for with our education and medical system abuses.
Who would think that being against illegal activity would not be considered
mainstream by Utah businesses and churches? In any event, I will be using HB116
as a litmus test for my vote. Since we're talking Utah, I will be voting
against any Republican who is for HB116. The vote will either go to a Democrat
or to a Republican who stands with the average Utahn. We'll just have to see
which it will be.
"Right wing and Left wing extremist hate the plan, which is clear evidence
of its fairness."Really? I think it is the opposite.Here are some examples.During the committee hearings on SB 60, (the bill
that HB 116 is based on before the bill number change) diametrically opposed
groups on the illegal alien issue came together in agreement that this bill
HB116 is bad for their various reasons. The Citizens Coalition on
Illegal Immigration, 9/12 groups, Eagle Forum, The Utah Minuteman Project,
UFIRE, ACLU, Projecto Latino, United Front for Social Justice, Immigration
lawyers, Bishop Webster and many legal immigrants are following different
processes to end HB 116. They are all writing editorials, letters to the
editor, speaking on radio shows,talking with neighbors and personally talking
with state Senators and Representatives. Some Utah citizens have organized
an effort within the Republican party's process for a resolution to repeal
HB116. All of this effort is by the citizens of Utah. It is saying
the concept of HB 116 and SB 60 is wrong. Please listen to us the citizens of
It's time again, to set the record straight. Is this a mass cover-up?. As the
Mormon Church sinks deeper and deeper into the battle over amnesty for illegal
aliens in Utah, it risks raising questions about the influence that the Mormon
Church will attempt to exercise over Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman should one of
them eventually be elected President of the United States. When Republican
delegates introduced resolutions to repeal HB116 at county Republican
Conventions, the Mormon Church issued an "Immigration Response" that
set out its support for HB116 and specifically for provisions "that will
allow those who are now here illegally to work legally." Now, political and
Church leaders face the very real possibility that elected delegates to the
state Republican Party convention will support a resolution on June 18 calling
for the repeal of HB116. According to reliable sources, the Mormon Church is now
considering issuing yet another statement that will effectively instruct Mormon
delegates to kill the resolution. However, if it does and if the delegates do
indeed defeat the resolution, questions will arise about the control that the
Mormon Church exercises over people sworn to represent those who elect them.Deport illegals.
I tire of the continued false claim of the pro illegal crowd that those
delegates that are against hb116 are "far Right" Republicans. They
use it as a derogatory term in yet another attempt at shame tactics. Once again,
they don't have the facts on their side, nor do they have the moral high
ground.I would hope that our Republican delegates do not give into this
undo and unfair pressure being placed on them by groups and individuals that are
not representing the interest of Utah Citizens. HB116 is nothing more
than institutional racism and its supporters know it. They are motivated in
their support of the idea for various reasons, all having personal financial
gain at its core. This is financial gain that is at the expense of Utah
Is the definition of "mainstream" when one agrees with Pignanelli and
Webb?This piece is just another in a long string of lame attempts by
these two to marginalize any who favor anything short of open borders and
From reading all these wonderful news articles....I would say the Utah GOP is
owned and operated by LDS inc. just as the papers are. HB116 needs
to be repealed. I am ashamed to be LDS. I was taught growing up to obey and
sustain the laws of the land and to uphold the constitution. This law and the
support of it by "the church" goes against everything I was taught
growing up LDS. I believe in compassion and loving thy neighbor but this goes
to far. You should not reward those that break laws for their gain. HB116 does
just that.This law (HB116)is not only a slap in the face to those
that come legally but to those that do not live across the border and have to
wait in line to come legally. This is exactly why immigration laws have quotas
for how many people can immigrate from each country. Where is the fairness or
compassion for the starving African or those in refugee camps in Thailand?
Repeal hb116 and replace it with a law that is FAIR and does not reward those
that have broken our laws but rewards those that follow it.
The right wing is too extreme even for the Church. People, it is time to stop
the conservative bullies.
Far right wing? You mean those who believe in our Constitution and Citizens
Rights to live and work? You mean a free society? Is that the far right? This is
interesting to be called the Far Right. Ok, well whatever.
Would HB116 showdown will reveal who controls Utah GOP?. Did you ever notice how
the pundits and talking heads seldom refer to the ramifications of some
politico's action, but how they will be perceived by the voting public? It
seems in politics that it isn't important what you actually do, but what you are
perceived as doing by one faction or another. Utah plus Congress passes
legislation telling the voting public only what they think we want to hear and
will support, never even giving a hint of the rot the bill contains. As long as
we perceive it to be a beneficial piece of legislation that's all they want, to
heck with the actual harm the bill can cause, we peons don't need to know about
that until it's too late then DN prints it. Have you ever watched a good slight
of hand artist at work? He does his seemingly impossible tricks by getting you
to focus on one hand while the other hand does the magic. As long as the hand
we're watching is not involved, our perception is directed away from the action.
I say report then deport illegals.
It is not the far right who oppose the bill but mainstream Utah'ns. There is
nothing extreme about following the law and allowing people from all nations a
chance to come to the USA. The current preference for law breakers from our
south is hurting many honest imagrants from other parts of the world.
why can't Pignanelli tell the difference between legal and illegal
immigration?And why do you characterize those who support upholding
the law as far-right? By your definition everyone who is not
"far-right" has no respect for the law.
Pignanelli:"without all the nasty rhetoric"Kind of like "Right-wing and left-wing extremists hate the plan, which is
clear evidence of its fairness?"By the way: the assertion on
the part of both Pignanelli and Webb that those who oppose HB116 constitute only
an extreme fringe minority of Utah citizens is absolutely ridiculous and of
You are missing an important point. The resolution that passed in Washington
County dealt with HB 116 and the GOP Platform. The Resolution being considered
on Saturday not only deals with that, but it deals with the constitutional
nature of HB 116 as a state power. HB 469 is a key to the question.
Most of not all conservative legislature members voted for HB 469. Several of
these members did not vote for HB 116. The reasons for the votes against HB 116
vary, as do the reasons for those that voted for HB 116. HB 469
raises the same question, under the US Constitution is Immigration an enumerated
power? Obviously not, if you read the current Deseret News Editorial. If the Resolution on Saturday fails, it may be that a very few conservative
activists care more about censuring the legislature over the finding an answer
to immigration. The Resolution on Saturday fatally questions the oath of office
of its own co-sponsors. Is HB 116 flawed? Yes. Is HB 116
unconstitutional? No. Is that understood by many conservatives? Yes.
I am betting on the far right to win at the convention. Then this will get to be
really fun. I just hope that the one thing that comes out of all this is an end
to the caucuses and the introduction of the open primary system.