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Comments about ‘In our opinion: Preserve the Utah Solution’

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Published: Sunday, June 12 2011 11:09 p.m. MDT

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EJM
Herriman, UT

A thoughtful and well written editorial that will drive the so-called Constitutional scholar/posters on here nuts. Eventually this could get to the US Supreme Court. I say they back it but what do I know, according to L White and Mike R. Let the posting begin.

Utah_1
Salt Lake City, UT

There are 4 bills. One that provides enforcement HB 479, one that provides for migrant workers HB 466, one that provides sponsoring HB 469, and one that provides a guest worker permit HB 116.

Leave out HB 469?

The sponsoring principle of HB 469 provides a limiting factor of how fast immigrants can come, makes sure they do not place a larger burden than we can handle, and is more like co-signing a friends car loan. It is the truly unique piece of the puzzle.

Bryan
Syracuse, UT

HB 116 must go. It rewards aliens who chose to flout American sovereignty and entered or remained unlawfully in the United States. The only thing "broken" about our immigration system is its lack of enforcement. Allowing millions of illegals to stay in the United States is unjust to all those foreign nationals who have or are trying to enter the country in a legal, honest way. We should not welcome law breakers to our country. Rather, whenever an illegal alien is discovered by local law enforcement, that person should be handed over to the Federal government for deportation. That person's spot should be taken by someone who chose to obey our laws and immigrate here the right way.

Utah_1
Salt Lake City, UT

There are 4 bills that the Governor signed together as the "Utah Solution". One that provides enforcement HB 479, one that provides for migrant workers HB 466, one that provides sponsoring HB 469, and one that provides a guest worker permit HB 116.

Both HB 469 and HB 116 have a similar constitutional warning.

Several conservatives voted for and several voted against HB 116, but almost all, voted for HB 469.

Hunt
Spanish Fork, UT

"HB116 is the portion of the Utah Solution that would allow undocumented immigrants residing in Utah prior to May 11 to work in Utah after meeting numerous preconditions, including a criminal background check."

How do you perform a background check on someone who is undocumented and can therefore supply you with whatever fake identity they choose? How do you verify that the documents used to prove residency prior to May 11 have not been falsified, especially when a simple electrical bill is all that is needed? If there is one fact, it is that illegal immigrants (a more descriptive term as illegals using fake documents are definitely not undocumented) are very adept at falsifying documents.

Hunt
Spanish Fork, UT

"HB116 provides challenging but achievable preconditions that allow undocumented immigrants who have resided in the state to work and contribute using their own identity. It eliminates the demand for false documents."

Interesting considering the fact that using false documents and fake or stolen identities is a felony. No one should kid themselves into thinking that these stolen identities have not also been used to obtain government benefits, personal loans, mortgages, etc. creating a situation where there are real victims who are being brushed aside and forgotten by this bill. HB116's provision to compensate the victims makes it next to impossible for the victim to obtain compensation as they will have to prove that it was an illegal who stole their identity. How easy do you think that is going to be?
Which part is the sham, the criminal background check or the continued claim that undocumented workers are not criminals? I should say illegal workers as the Dnews just admitted that they are actually documented and, after all, their employment by less then ethical employers is in fact illegal.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

All this Constitutional gobbledygook really points to one thing: granting residency, employment, and other preferential treatment to a legion of foreign nationals who by their own behavior have amply demonstrated deep disrespect and disdain for the United States, its laws, and its sovereignty.

Such a plan would knowingly take jobs badly needed by Utah's numerous unemployed and hand them to these foreign nationals who do mock our nation.

It would knowingly exacerbate our schools' already severe overcrowding, language, and quality-control problems.

It would thumb its nose at the will of the people -- who have suffered enormously by the presence of illegal aliens and who have made it abundantly and repeatedly clear that they want the law to be enforced.

Some say HB116 is not Amnesty because it offers no path to citizenship. Actually, it is worse: it foolishly extends the red carpet to "friends" who don't even PRETEND to pledge allegiance to this country or aspire to U.S. citizenship and its lofty standards. Allowing such persons a place among us -- especially in such astronomically high numbers -- would pose a genuine threat to the integrity, unity, and well-being of Utah and the country itself.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

"the Utah Solution would weed out dangerous criminals"

At least two problems:

One, there is scant reason to believe that dangerous criminals would have any incentive whatsoever to submit to such a check. They could submit to such a check now. Of course they do no such thing.

Two, what would Utah do with those who do not pass the background check? If we are to believe what Curtis Bramble tells us, there is nothing that we can do with them. The truth is that if the law can be applied to them, it also could be applied to all illegals in the state.

"It eliminates the demand for false documents."

And handing someone a hundred thousand dollars would eliminate the "need" for that person to rob a bank. This does not ameliorate the real problem. We don't want foreign nationals who would forge documents to be in this country.

"...would allow undocumented immigrants residing in Utah prior to May 11 to work in Utah..."

It ALSO would allow illegals who have EVER lived or worked in Utah prior to May 10, 2011, to RETURN to Utah (line 778 of HB116).

LiberalEastCoastMember
Parkesburg, PA

"it is unfortunate that a highly vocal effort to undo the Utah Solution has emerged within the Republican party."

We'll see if Utah Republicans choose to follow the views of their religious leaders on the thorny issue of immigration or their political leaders.

My gut is they'll chose their political leaders.

Hope I'm wrong.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

@LiberalEastCoastMember

"We'll see if Utah Republicans choose to follow the views of their religious leaders..."

Scott Trotter and the Church's Public Affairs Office are not religious leaders. The Public Affairs Office spoke for no religious leader by name. As far as I have been able to detect, President Monson has not spoken to the church membership in regard to HB116 in his own voice or likeness, nor has anything in this specific regard been published with his own name or signature attached to it.

As I understand the doctrine, no member of the Church is obligated, spiritually or otherwise, to regard a ghost-written, incognito press release from the Public Affairs Office as the Mind and Will of the Lord.

Instead, God gives each person a conscience and a mind and the agency and charge to use these to think for ourselves and make correct decisions. Blindly and unquestioningly heeding the words of the ghost-writers of the Public Affairs office has no actual foundation in the gospel as I understand it.

FDRfan
Sugar City, ID

That's great for immigration. Does Utah (i.e.Utah GOP) have a position on healthcare other than to repeal or negate Obamacare? If so, what is it?

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The statement: "the popularity of legislations' aims, the support enjoyed from a variety of institutions (including the Chamber of Commerce, the Sutherland Institute and our owner, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)" says it all.

The Utah state government is owned and operated by commercial interests that place business profits well above the concern for people.

It is sad that we may be ruled by government that believes business is more important than people.

Third try screen name
Mapleton, UT

Once you toss out the rule of law, can the Constitution itself be far behind?

mohokat
Ogden, UT

Reagan was duped into an amnesty with the promise of no more. What happened is more invasion by those who would wait in the shadows for a woosey American Congress and public to give them another one. Tough enforcement is the only answer and the Utah Solution is not the answer.

Chickenchaser
Centralia, WA

It is time to review the issue of state's rights. Dictatorship is dead but . . ..

danaslc
Kearns, UT

The Utah Solution does nothing to improve Utah's unemployment of citizens. It does nothing to get our young people the jobs that they need. The Utah Solution is still for the businessman and not for those who pay into the tax system. Illegal Immigration hurts all States. It hurts the citizens. The Utah Solution is wrong. No matter how hard they try to re-word it and re-work it, it will not be a workable solution. What is wrong is wrong. Wrong never makes things right.

evensteven
Sandy, UT

The statement: "the popularity of legislations' aims, the support enjoyed from a variety of institutions (including the Chamber of Commerce, the Sutherland Institute and our owner, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)" is a bit redundant since the Church, via its business arms, runs the Chamber.

How can the DNews argue that immigration is a federal issue then print an editorial pleading for Utah's state-based "solution" to be given a chance?

Does anyone else find it curous that the editorial does not challenge Fr. Wester for his opposition to HB116? Or is it just the Republican delegates, a large number of whom are LDS, that the Church is trying to influence?

Even their latest statement is mush. Consider that the Church itself will not employ illegal immigrants (policy 21.1.16, an interesting conundrum in itself) nor does it support the sponsorship of immigrants by members (same policy). They acknowledge that the "flow of undocumented immigrants, unchecked and unregulated, may destabilize society and ultimately become unsustainable" yet vigorously oppose any effort to stem that flow to Utah by citizens who recognize that destabilzation and unsustainability are already present and are rightly alarmed by it.

Tulip
West Jordan, UT

A couple of questions for the editorial board and the Utah Legislature: What consequences will follow if our "alien friends" do not comply with the stipulations of HB116? If we haven't had the "backbone" in the past to enforce laws on the books how do we really create a solution based in reality. As a Republican delegate, I see HB116 as a good faith and honest effort to indeed bring undocumented workers out of the shadows. I genuinely like the idea. My problem is how will this change the mindset of those we are trying to help? Will all undocumented workers run out and get the required permits? If not, what will be the consequences? Are the Latino leaders behind this?

And, as a guest worker permit holder but not a legal citizen, will they have voting rights?

sjgf
South Jordan, UT

I have lived in a foreign land, as a dependent in the US military. I had friends who were children of US civilians, working in the foreign country with proper visas.

We never had a thought of circumventing the laws of those countries and living "in the shadows." We came according to their laws and we left appropriately when it was time to go. Had any of my friends' families been evicted back to the US, I don't see that it would have caused them any hardship. They spoke English and would have fit in fine back in their native country, the USA.

I fail to see why there is this outcry of people saying what a hardship it would be to follow the laws, and if laws are broken, to simply go back to their homelands. I have been on the other side of this issue, and I think people are making mountains out of molehills.

MormonDem
Provo, UT

I'm amazed that people like anti-liar | 5:22 a.m. and otherssomehow still try to convince themselves that the Church's support of the Utah Compact is still ambiguous--that it's the Church P.R. office, not the Brethren, that have issued statement after statement about immigration, including support of the Utah Compact and HB116. It's right there, over and over again, on the Church's Newsroom page--which is, to quote the Church's web site, "an official voice of the Church."

Some GOPers opposed to HB116 and the Utah Compact still just refuse to admit that they and the Brethren are on opposite sides of this issue.

If somehow we could harness that cognitive dissonance as a source of alternative energy! Our energy independence problems would be solved!

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