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About Utah: Not all glad bin Laden was killed

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  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    May 9, 2011 5:04 p.m.

    How ironic,
    This story is not much different than being a Muslim in Utah.

    Our own domestic extremeists [Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity] are considered heros, and could easily find refuge and hide out here.

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    May 9, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    the people who celebrated bin laden's killing are no beter than the islamists celebrating when an american dies. I agree it is good that he is gone, but celebrating in the streets makes us look as bad and evil as they are.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 9, 2011 7:47 a.m.

    Riverton - even those numbers you quote aren't exactly honest. The current years numbers will always be higher than the previous administrations by virtue of inflation. These numbers are never listed in constent dollars. I am not saying that the "idea" behind them isn't true - but just raw numbers like that do not tell an honest story.

    A better measure would be as a percentage of GDP. That way it is relative to the overall economy.

    As long as everyone wants to make more next year than they did this year, there will be inflation. Quoting numbers not equalized for inflation is not a true comparison.

    But let the zingers keep flying... there are millions of them. I was in marketing for year, I can bend the story to meet the need with the best of them, all the while not "lying".

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, Utah
    May 7, 2011 8:34 p.m.

    "Republicans are not happy because it shows a President who actually was competent enough to lead in the finishing off of this mass murderer."

    You are absolutely right, because this never ever would have happened if anybody else had been president. Especially if Bush was still president. Only Obama could be the savior of the world and single-handedly do all the things that nobody else could do.

    Sarcasm aside, you are right that Obama has done something that no one else has done: increase the debt from 5 trillion to 11 trillion in a record 2 years!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 7, 2011 7:20 a.m.

    "They, on the other hand are very upset and call us names for defending ourselves. Where were they when our country was in mourning for the loss of those killed in the Twin Towers, and at the Pentagon?"

    I had just landed in Indonesia when 9/11 happened. I was actually in the air on a United jet and learned about the events while riding in a taxi on the way to my hotel. I was then stuck in Indonesia for 2 weeks as foreign flights were all cancelled at the time. Where were the Indonesian's.... who are predominately Muslim.... they were extending the most warm hospitality toward me at the time.

    Generalities about the people of the middle east and muslims are so dishonest - particularly those making the comments have had very little exposure to either other than the fringes of each which the media play up for the purpose of ratings.

    Yes, there are some very bad people in the middle east. Guess what, there are bad people everywhere... even here in the US.

  • nautilus Home town, UT
    May 6, 2011 5:32 p.m.

    Can anyone else see the irony here? The reversal of roles is astounding. Here they were glad for the United States to lose 3000+ people and they danced in the streets. We the United States of America rejoices for one person, and we are the bad guys? Give us some slack here.

    They, on the other hand are very upset and call us names for defending ourselves. Where were they when our country was in mourning for the loss of those killed in the Twin Towers, and at the Pentagon?

    I think some people need to take into consideration of our loss and have some empathy for those who died, by the command of a terrorist. It needs to call a spade a spade.

    There is no stretch of imagination of the revenge that was spewed out toward the United States. Are we supposed to lie down and play dead? I think not.

    Maybe the U.S taxpayers need to scream loud and clear to stop the financial assistance and get out of their country so it may be appreciated for what it is. Generosity in the name of foreign relations.

    Maybe then, and only then they'll understand.

  • Hoss817 Queen Creek, AZ
    May 6, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    I am not sure what the point of your article is. You didnt tell us anything new except for the information on the LDS members who are from Pakistan. If you are telling us that we should not take appropriate action against an enemy who has killed thousands of innocents, because his friends and supporters will get madder and take out their displaced rage on more innocents. If that is the case, you do not understand the realities of war and are really naive.

  • GmaxD Lehi, UT
    May 6, 2011 3:58 p.m.

    Happy Osama bin Gotten!!!!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 6, 2011 2:39 p.m.

    Where in the world is that 80-90% of muslims support bin laden come from? Anyone have a source for that number?

    According to the Pew Global Attitudes Project which tracks such things, Osama's popularity in even Pakistan was a low as 18% of those poled. 18 to 80 or 90 percent is a quantum leap. The one country that came even close to him having general support was in Nigeria - home of the email scam. But through out the middle east, his support was far south of 50%. In Egypt, it stood at 22%, in Lebanon 1%, Turkey came in at 3%, and Jordan was at 13%.

    And looked at over time since 2003, those numbers were falling steadily.

    So 80 to 90 percent supported the man? I need to see a source on that number.

  • FieryDarts Kaysville, Utah
    May 6, 2011 2:37 p.m.

    I don't believe the "80-90%" figure. It's possible that 80-90% of the public response is pro-Bin Laden/anti-American, but it is wrong to extrapolate that to the entire Pakistani population, much less to the entire Muslim population.

    For an example of this fallacy that is closer to home, consider illegal immigration. From following the public debate in places such as this, it is easy to assume that 75-90% of people are in favor of mass deportation of all illegal immigrants, but actual polls have shown the support for that to be less than 50%. The debate is dominated by a vocal, passionate minority while a quieter (not silent) majority holds a far more moderate position.

    In Islam, there is tremendous social pressure from that more vocal group that suppresses dissent and helps to build the impression of overwhelming support for Bin Laden. This is part of what the Arab Spring may be able to improve, and even if it can't we all need to do our part to love Muslims, even when they wish to be our enemies, or to curse us and despitefully use us.

  • mkSdd3 Ogden, UT
    May 6, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    @FieryDarts | 12:08 p.m. May 6, 2011

    "if a group of Baptists were to bomb mosques in the name of Christ and Christianity, would it be appropriate to blame Catholics, Mormons, or even other Baptists?"

    If 80 - 90 percent of the Catholics, Mormons, or Baptists came out and were dancing is the streets, YES I would say they share in the guilt.

    The Pakistani that was quoted in this article stated he thought 80-90 percent of the people viewed bin Laden as a hero. There have been many other sources that say that this attitude is wide spread and popular in the Arab world. I do not believe that 80-90 percent of the people are radical islamists. But when that big of a percentage of people support bin Laden, I for one will quite saying it is the radicals doing this.

    It is a much bigger problem, and we need to see that. We have been avoiding the issue because we do not wish to offend. But we do have to call a spade a spade. It is not just radicals that want Americans dead.

  • jans Pickerington, OH
    May 6, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    Our foreign military bases are security blankets for American corporations. Don't delude yourself otherwise. We provide more financial support than our allies because we are the richest and most capable.

    And I'm wondering if some of the previous posters actually read the article - it was about a Pakistani Christian living in Utah, who is discussing the aftermath his Christian family is dealing with in Pakistan. He doesn't hate America, neither does his family in Pakistan.

    And Screwdriver has a good point - the US seems to have little compunction putting a military presence wherever we feel like it to secure our interests, with little consideration to how the "host" country feels about it. Germany didn't have a choice. Neither did Japan, Kuwait, etc. Do they have some benefit from a US military presence? Sure. But do they really have a choice?

    And Japan did send aid to help with the recent tornado disasters in Alabama. Maybe it isn't much compared to the amount of aid we sent them, but again, we can't compare their resources to ours, in any way.

  • cindyacre Shelley, ID
    May 6, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    We do have a military base in Saudi. My son went there for duty.

    It could be that while we give aid to countries whose people hate us, that they don't know that we are giving them money. Those countries' media are just as selective on info as ours.

    "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't make for very good friendship, but they have been taught that all their lives, it is that they know. When they receive the gospel of Jesus Christ, they learn a better way of life.

    The people who pulled the woman reporter away from the mob in Egypt were women, who understood exactly what she went through. Do the perpetrators of the violent act know that if this happened in the USA they would be arrested and put in jail? Probably not.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    I was a bit dismayed to see the celebrating here as I was when 9/11 happened and it was the Muslin's celebrating. This does not mean that I wasn't glad that justice has taken place, which I knew would come eventually. Interesting that the photos are not being shown for fear of retaliation. Under this premise, might it have been just as appropriate not to have given out the news at all that Bin Laden had been killed? It would have gotten out to the Muslin world without verification. The hype that has come with this announcement just calls for a "revenge" attack. To have chosen this path would have been 'mission accomplished' without political payback. Ah, the price of ego.

  • FieryDarts Kaysville, Utah
    May 6, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    I have noticed a dangerous tendency for people to confuse Islam with Islamic terrorists. I'm not sure why there is such an eagerness to blame the violence on the entire religion, but it isn't helpful in any way to do so.

    It is important to remember that Islam is far from a monolithic religion. It is broken into two major sects (Shia and Sunni) and within those there is a vast spectrum of beliefs (akin to the range of beliefs you can find among Catholics). To say that all Muslims believe the same thing is like saying that all Christians believe the same thing (although it would be more accurate to compare it to the Christianity of 1600).

    Consider this: if a group of Baptists were to bomb mosques in the name of Christ and Christianity, would it be appropriate to blame Catholics, Mormons, or even other Baptists?

    Violent Islamic fundamentalism can be defeated, but it won't be defeated by an application of force from outside. We need to build alliances on a national and personal level with the Muslim world if we are to weed out terrorist in all our societies.

  • AlaskanLDS Juneau, AK
    May 6, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    I was hoping that this article would address Americans who are not celebrating Bin Laden's death.

    I am surprised at the celebrations of another person dying. I don't care who he was or how terrible he was. When we celebrate the killing of a person we have sunk to the basest of animals.

  • mkSdd3 Ogden, UT
    May 6, 2011 9:57 a.m.

    @Flashback

    If your statement is true that "...Islam is at war with America", and I am not doubting your statement, I think it would only be prudent for America to wake up and go to battle.

    If we are under attack we must respond. If some organization is working for our destruction we must act to prevent it. If they are at war, we must also go to war. So the first part of your statement would be foolhardy "America in not at war with Islam..." if the second part is true.

    If Islam has truly started a war with us we must respond, and the first thing that we should do is stop saying we are not at war. We should be telling them that we are at war and we are willing to do what ever is necessary to win the war.

  • HaveANiceDay Ogden, UT
    May 6, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    It is not any surprising news that 80 to 90 percent of the Pakistanis view bin Laden as a hero, and that they hate America. The thing I do find uprising is that there were Mormons living in Pakistan (now in Utah).

    My heart and admiration goes out to this man. Evan though I do not know you, you are now one of my heroes.

  • gizmo33 St. George, Utah
    May 6, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    Im glad hes dead and thats just fine with me dont need to say anything else because this is now becomig old news time to move on

  • Tami Herriman, UT
    May 6, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Why do we continue to give millions of dollars year after year to countries whose people hate us no matter what we do for them? Lets start taking care of our own people here at home and let the rest of the world do the same.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    May 6, 2011 8:43 a.m.

    @Lost in DC: Yeah, we finally agree on something. My sentiments exactly, starting with your first sentence!

    @Liberal Ted: See lost in DC's post!

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    May 6, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    We ought to cut the billions that we send to Pakistan, and we need to go in and steal their nukes. I personally don't care what the Pakistanis think. America is not at war with Islam, Islam is at war with America.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 8:35 a.m.

    Sorry screwdriver, do not compare a liberal democracy like the US with countries in the MIddle East. Countries that we have "occupied" such as Germany, Japan, Philippines, South Korea, etc. have all been returned to sovereignty. Our foreign bases are a security blanket for many nations. If Saudi Arabia had something to offer the US like protection from Islamic radicals, make us an offer for a military base.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    May 6, 2011 8:31 a.m.

    I was neither happy nor sad at hearing Osama had been dispatched from this world. Why, because it changes nothing. Radical Islam is still at war with us and we are still pretending that they are not. We are pretending that if we play nice with them then they will do the same to us. Get us out of these immoral wars and take care of things at home.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    May 6, 2011 8:06 a.m.

    @ do da do da Schmidt, Please stay in California. You had to drag your leader the community organizer into this discussion. But with his record if he was my leader I would feel the need to defendd him every time I opened my mouth also. He made a great decision. That makes an even one. What he did do is capitalize on someone elses work and policies. Get over Bush. He is gone.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    May 6, 2011 7:56 a.m.

    With friends like Pakistan, who needs enemies.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    May 6, 2011 7:54 a.m.

    Lots of talk about how Pakistan still hates USA. Try going there. The majority of the people there are like the people in Utah. They try to make enough to feed their family everyday.

    Having worked on UN projects it is those people who benefit from donations from this country. The money donated goes to build schools, buy basic computers, put in telephone services to places that lie outside of major metropolitan areas.

    Much of the money is siphoned off by country leaders before it gets to where it will do the most good which is deplorable but the same thing happens in this country. UNICEF takes over 60% of all donations to run their office in USA. It is the way business is done.

    These people hate America the same way most people here hate Tunisia. Most of us have not heard anything about it and it is the same there. While traveling there one taxi driver asked where I was from and when I replied USA he looked at me and asked if that was close to Australia.

    I am sure the extremists are upset, good thing they need to be, they are now being hunted.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    May 6, 2011 7:35 a.m.

    Republicans are not happy because it shows a President who actually was competent enough to lead in the finishing off of this mass murderer.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    May 6, 2011 7:09 a.m.

    This is why there will be no pictures released, which would further inflame anti-American sentiment. No apologies for how this went down. In fact, kudos to the soldier who took him out - reportedly against orders - as he saved us millions in taxes to hold and try OBL over a time period that would most certainly have served to escalate violence and rhetiric against the USA.

    This article just shows that, while our beef is with Radical Islam Terrorists - "Islamists" - , most of the Islamic world still hates us. It is only the enlightened "western" practicioners of Islam who see the terrorist factions for what they are.

  • FreeMan Heber City, UT
    May 6, 2011 7:06 a.m.

    Obviously this man is clueless. He says 80 to 90 percent of the muslim in Pakistan view OBL as a hero and hate America. We've been told by our political leaders and the press, which cannot lie, and does not have any agenda, that 90 percent of all muslims are peace loving fans of America. Oh, this is so confusing... who can we trust?

  • tom_e Kaysville, UT
    May 6, 2011 6:47 a.m.

    Great article. Thank you for doing the research on this story.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    May 6, 2011 6:40 a.m.

    Wow, I would not have expected 80-90% of Pakistanis would support Bin Laden! That is alarming. Pakistan is a really tough case for us. The cultural differences are huge. We estimate that they have over 100 nuclear warheads. They have something like 170 million people. We can't simply cut our support for their government and yet when I hear that there is that much love for Bin Laden there I would sure like to distance ourselves from them. We need some incredible leadership and statesmanship to deal with Pakistan.

  • tyndale1 Pullman, WA
    May 6, 2011 6:35 a.m.

    This is sad but true. So many do not know why they hate America, but just that they do. They mistake their hatred as divine, yet they do not allow themselves the opportunity to step back and to evaluate the situation fairly. It is mob rule. Individually, they might see more true, but collectively, they will always go foul. So sad - so sad.

    But that cannot stop our efforts to help them. Sometimes we have to help those who do not see themselves as needing of any help.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    May 6, 2011 6:24 a.m.

    Wait a minute, Muslims keep telling us how peaceful and loving they are. Why would they blow themselves up and attack christians? Is that peaceful?

    I know all Muslims don't feel this way. When I've traveled it has been the Muslim community that has treated me by far better than the catholics and other christian communities.

    But, for muslims to preach a victims mentality; then threaten revenge by murdering innoncent people. It doesn't sound like a religion of peace to me. If these pakistani muslims feel this way about us. Then let's cut the $$$ supply to them. Let them live on their own. After all they are the supposed inventors of math and science (right barack?).

    As for the United States being arrogant and selfish. Have you ever traveled outisde of this nation? How much aide and supplies did the world flood us with during our hour of need? Very little. How did we respond to others when they have disasters? We donated more than all other nations combined. Even then France and a few other nations told us we aren't doing enough. Is that arrogance? Maybe it's time other nations grow up.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    May 6, 2011 6:10 a.m.

    I don't understand the point of this article. It's telling us something we already know.

    Moa, Stalin, and Lenin were all butchers who were responsible for the deaths of millions of people but were revered by some.

    Even Charles Manson had his followers who would have been upset by his death.

    Just because some poor fools are duped by a madman does not mean the world is not better off without the madman.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 6, 2011 5:05 a.m.

    That is just one perspective. My former boss is from Pakistan, and he tells of a much different story. He relates that it is much like the Tea Party, where you have a very vocal and motivated segment of the country who gets a lot of attention, but who do not necessarily represent the majority. He himself is a very conservative person, and a Muslim. He and his wife have lived in this country for 14 years now, but visits his home annually.

    Is Pakistan a friendly place for Americans? Not like Salt Lake is. Are there Muslims that hate Americans? Yep, just like the Tea Party hates Obama. Same rhetoric, just different names. Both use religion and moral superiority as justification for their dislike of the other side.

    And then there are the extremist, which is a group beyond even the tea-party types of Muslims. These are those that are truly dangerous. The Tea-Party Muslim types are bound by their faith to act accordingly... civil. Throwing stones, yes, demonstrate.... of course. But the extremist believes the ends justify the means.

    Don't confuse angry muslims with extremes - any more than we would brand ourselves likewise.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    May 6, 2011 3:06 a.m.

    When there is a Palitinian state between Canada and the US and there are Muslim army bases in the US then people will some idea of how we have treated the rest of the world.

    Really, where should we allow the first army base from the middle east? Utah? Nobody would be upset about that right? Non of our tea-oarty friends would be upset if a foreign military came and started confiscating guns...

    I suppoese if Saudia Arabia decides it's in thier national interest to have a military base in the US nobody would mind?

  • Nacho Libre Holladay, UT
    May 6, 2011 1:19 a.m.

    Right, America is the enemy of Islam... Is that why we've been giving billions of dollars to Pakistan over the last few years? Is that why we've been building schools and digging wells and creating a semblance of freedom in Afghanistan? I'll be the first to admit that America has it's problems. We can be arrogant and selfish--unable to focus on anything than ourselves. However, by and large, America has helped billions of people around the world live better and more peaceful lives. Most of those that hate us don't even know why they hate us. They just know that they've been taught all of their lives that we're evil. Their grandfathers hated America, their fathers hated America, and so they'll hate America too. Nothing we ever do will change that, however, we must never give up the effortthat's what makes us Americans.