Comments about ‘Support the 'Utah solution'’

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Published: Friday, April 29 2011 12:00 a.m. MDT

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LDS
Cedar City, UT

to sjgf | 3:24 p.m:
I don't think you're making an honest argument. Almost all "illegal immigrants" do in fact assimilate into our society. Their kids are in school. They work hard. They pay sales taxes as well as indirect taxes thru renting.

Again , I ask: Why would we want others cast out?

The laws must be changed, as encouraged by the Church. In the mean time we need to love our immigrant neighbors and friends and show it by accommodating them. We can help them as they strive to be contributing members of our communities.

Jazz Bass Man
Wellsville, Utah

cowshed said: "everyone is our neighbor..... Many of the comments here appear to me to be based on hatred for, not love of, one's neighbor."

I agree that Christ said we must love everyone. Yes, it's easier said than done. But he never said that we have to put up with people who break our laws so they can get freebies out of our wallets. By your logic we should not punish anyone regardless of what they do. So you really think we should just open up our prisons and let everyone go free? After all, nobody is perfect, and we surely wouldn't want to "cast the first stone". Oh, and you're ok with someone who comes into your house and steals your food and everything in your medicine cabinet, sells your kids drugs, or squats in your house for free? After all they are just "hard working people trying to better their lives" - right?

Hunt
Spanish Fork, UT

@LDS

Where is your love for your neighbor who is currently spending tens of thousands of dollars to bring their loved ones here legally only to find out that there are those trying to halt there efforts by rewarding illegal line cutters? This in contrast to your neighbor who has violated our sovereignty, committed felonies to obtain work, raided our welfare system at the expense tax payers and stolen our children's identity (50,000+ in Utah).
Call me crazy but I've been raised to believe that we reward good behavior while doing all we can to discourage bad.
Do you believe this too or are you in favor of a bill that seeks to enact institutional racism by rewarding one race and nationality over all others?

sjgf
South Jordan, UT

@Game For Any Fuss:

"the state isn't giving away jobs to anyone. The free market is."

You have ignored one important concept.

40 years ago, the jobs you are talking about would have been filled by 16-18 year old youth from our state. But the government, by passing "child labor" laws, and laws requiring that employers provide benefits in certain situations, has made it so that 16-18 year olds can no longer be employed under similar conditions as 40 years ago. The only way to fill these jobs now is to go underground and employ people outside the law. (My teenage children can no longer find reasonable summer employment because of these laws.)

The "free market" is not causing this shift to the underground, it is our own government and the side-effects of well-intentioned but ill-conceived laws.

Don't say that the "free market" is doing this. Be honest and say that the "black market" is doing this. (No, this is not a racial slur, but a common term used to indicate illegal activity.)

LDS
Cedar City, UT

to Hunt | 3:41 p.m.
My friend, I know several families who are here without documentation. They are hard working, honest in their dealings and trying hard to establish their families here. Just like you and me.

The churches (LDS and Catholic) want to provide a way for these good people to stay permanently. I believe we need to support that effort.

Hunt
Spanish Fork, UT

@MormonDem

The studies you use to make your claims that immigrants actually benefit our economy and add more to the tax base than they take do not differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants. How convenient of them to hide the truth by padding the stats.

As for your claim about making laws to adhere to. I suppose I should choose a law I don't like and start breaking it in the hope that at some point in time a law will be passed that will legalize my illegal actions. The argument is absurd.

Hunt
Spanish Fork, UT

@LDS

So in other words you refuse to address one point that I made. Why is that?

I am not arguing that they are not hard working or that they are trying to establish a family here.

However, they are NOT honest in there dealings by the very fact that they are here illegally. No way around that one as it is impossible for them to obtain work without contributing to the felonious acts of their employer or by committing document fraud themselves (and in many cases identity theft).
Lets not forget the fact that by supporting HB116 you are inadvertently supporting institutional racism.
Care to address, or are you going to feed me some more feel good lines that fail to recognize the significant negative issues of illegal immigration?

twoartistic
Draper, UT

I am deeply concerned that my church leadership would thwart the rule of law. Are we not taught to live by the law? So now, we not only have a political ruling elite that for the most part feels no need to reference the constitutionality of regulation they put forward, we also have the LDS church urging law makers to disregard the law of the land.

I wan't freedom and prosperity for all mankind. The only way that happens is that good, decent, honest citizenry take a stand against corruption, and promote freedom. I often hear the argument that illegals are just hard working folks that just want a better life, so we should let them in. Think about this, if we create a way for them to thwart the rules, we are lowering the standards of our society thus encouraging the slide towards greater corruption. The very thing that is keeping most of the world from enjoying the opportunities that we once enjoyed here. Are we going to continue to dilute the Constitution for a short term poor solution, or are we going to gird our loins for the harder, but ultimately more compassionate solutions for all.

cowshed
Provo, Utah

Some have said, rightly, that a large part of the immigration problem is due to people thwarting the rules. It is obvious, due to the size of the illegal population, that the current rules are not working. Every year in this country laws are changed to try to redress problems with current laws. Even in sports there are annual changes in rules to try to improve the way the game is played.

I believe the Utah Compact advocates a change in our national laws to really address the immigration problem in a rational way, rather than to just continue to sweep it under the rug as the federal government has been doing for years. HB 116 is an attempt change the rules in a way that is reasonable and compassionate. It allows people who have been living in the shadows to come forward, pay reasonable penalties, and be able to live, work and pay taxes here legally without granting them citizenship. Breaking up families or sending teenagers who were brought here as young children is, to me, somewhat akin to assessing the death penalty for doing 75 miles per hour in a 55 mph zone.

cowshed
Provo, Utah

To those who are concerned about the LDS Church supposedly supporting lawbreaking: I do not see the LDS Church's nor the Catholic Church's nor any other Church's support of the Utah Compact as being in support of breaking the law. The Utah Compact is intended to provide a model for modifying national law from a law that doesn't work to make it a law that does work. I would be very disappointed if any Christian Church did not come down on the side of compassion.

Laws are changed every day as an attempt improve things. Even the United States constitution, which many believe was inspired by God, provides a way for itself to be modified. That same constitution established a legislature to make and modify laws as necessary.

I applaud the efforts of our Utah Legislature and governor in framing HB 116, and would be terribly disappointed if the Republican Party delegates vote to advocate its repeal or to take punitive action of any kind toward those thoughtful and courageous legislators who voted for it.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

There is a great and insurmountable problem with the Utah Compact. That problem is one of trust. The Federal Government has shown that it cannot be trusted to secure our borders, nor have they made any effort to rectify the problem of illegal immigration.

What do you do when a government abdicates its responsibility. Do you close your eyes and pretend that you have no responsibility as a State to protect your own borders and to require all who enter, enter lawfully?

Utah, by itself, cannot solve the problem, nor can it pretend that the Federal Government has any interest in fulfilling its duty to protect our borders. That leaves us with a problem. As a State, we can look the other way and say that it is not our problem. We can enforce the law when violations become known. We can actively pursue any suspected violators of the law. Prudence would dictate that we choose the second option, that we enforce the law when violations become known. Humanity towards others requires us to treat with dignity those people, including families, who have placed themselves outside the law.

A civilized society cannot exist without obedience to law.

Alfred
SLC, Utah

@utesovertide: "How does giving someone the right to work here, pay taxes to all locales, create jobs, take risks, and add to the community, all without the right to vote, remain once the right is expired, or benefit from social security, equal Amnesty...?"

Amnesty is being allowed to stay in this country. Most illegals don't want citizenship. They just want jobs. We ain't got no jobs for them. As has been stated many times on many threads, we have 15 million unemployed Americans who need work. We don't need any workers now. And when we do, we'll invite them to come legally... and go home when visas expire.

Considering
Stockton, UT

The hypocrisy of this editorial is rank.

Anytime someone talks enforcement, the pro-amnesty crowd including among the DesNews editorial staff wrings their hands about this being a "federal issue".

But when someone proposes amnesty, suddenly the same editors are fine with the States making things up for themselves?

This is even more stark because efforts to enforce the law have not involved States violating federal law. Rather, such efforts have simply involved getting State and local police involved in identifying and when appropriate, detaining illegal aliens to turn over to federal officers just as federal law allows. Amnesty efforts such as 116, however, are a direct violation of federal law.

Rather than continue to look silly and to make up contorted "logic" to support their view, the DesNews editorial board would be better off to just be honest. Openly advocate for open borders, amnesty, and giving away the nation. A lot of people will disagree. Some will agree. But at least you'll be honest.

Ok
Salt Lake City, Utah

If they are here illegally, send them home. It just isn't that hard. Send them home, pronto.

Utah_1
Salt Lake City, UT

The Utah Compact states "Immigration is a federal policy issue between the U.S. government and other countries not Utah and other countries."

The 4 bills reject that. HB116? Not the answer.

HB 469 throws out over 100 years of US case law about immigration, creates a way for Utahns to sponsor people from around the world, providing the immigrants are not in the US illegally.

It claims that there is NOTHING in the US Constitution that grants the Federal Government power over Immigration and prior to the Case Law noted above, the States had that Power.

It tells the Federal Government to protect our borders, create rules for granting citizenship, but as the State of Utah, we can take care of immigration, thank you very much.

The sponsoring principle of HB 469 provides a limiting factor of how fast immigrants can come, makes sure they do not place a larger burden than we can handle, and is more like co-signing a friend's car loan. It is the truly unique piece of the puzzle. With it, you don't need HB 116. Someone here illegally could find a sponsor, go home and come back with permission.

homebrew
South Jordan, UT

Utah's one party solutions are not what this nation needs. This state is a laughingstock nationally. Dont try to tell the rest of the nation what to do. Just keep your bigotry to yourselves.

Trooper55
Williams, AZ

I don't believe that this bill is worth the paper it's written on. Anybody or any churches that support this bill is stating that it's alright to break the law. I am one person who believes that they need to be deported and come back the legally way, don't reward them for breaking our laws,but make them pay the price just the way we do if we break the laws, and as far as that matter if it breaks families up they knew the chance they were taking when they married someone who was here illegal.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Hunt
twoartistic -- I am deeply concerned that my church leadership would thwart the rule of law.
Mike Richards
Alfred
Considering
Ok
Trooper55

I will remind you all again, The "brethern" have spoken.

"The Church has spoken a number of times about the issue of immigration. Specifically, it has spoken in support of the Utah Compact and has described the package of bills passed by the Utah Legislature, taken together, as a responsible approach to the difficult question of immigration reform."

I'm beginning to question your LDS membership.
Just as you have questioned mine.

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