@2bits: I'll look into it. Thanks for the "heads up."
Demo Dave | 1:50 p.m.I don't recall if any groups were specifically
named. If they were... I don't remember them. It was mostly individuals who
wanted more restricted use of the canyons. But there were several articles in
the DMN last summer reporting on these public comment meetings where people (I
called them radicals) made these presentations or comments at a canyons master
plan meeting with the State Government and the Forest Service asking them to
restrict access to the Canyons.Some of the proposals were... -Limit the number of people who can enter the Canyon on a given day
(especially hollidays). -Charge an access fee for the canyons.-Close all but a few foot trails to restore the canyons their pristine
state.It would take some research to find the articles. If I have
time later I will try to find them.I'm involved with a committee
that buys land to preserve public access to the canyons and foothills in
Sandy... so I keep an eye on these meetings and their proposals.
Dear 2 bits, Who are these alleged radical groups and what are their intentions?
I belong to several environmental organizations that some would consider
"radical," and I'm not aware of this agenda. The trails are meant to
be used - but not abused.
Demo Dave 12:26 p.m.Don't think this stops at the EEEVIL ATV people.
IT doesn't stop there. Radical Environmentalists have plans to cut back
drastically on trails HIKERS can use in Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons
too.There are radicals out there who think like you... (that if it's
something YOU don't do... then 20,000 miles is 19,000 to many). There are already plans to close most hiking and biking trails in the canyons.
AND to limit the number of people who can access the canyons to the elite who
can afford to pay the fees, and limits on how_many_humans can access the
canyons.So... this MAY become a situation where... they came for the
ATV_people, and nobody objected. So they came for the hunters, and nobody
objected. SO they came for the hikers and bickers and there was nobody left to
speak out for them.I'm just saying... don't be so quick to throw
other recreational users under the bus... you may need the whole outdoor
recreation community to rally together to stop some of the plans the
Environmentalists have as next_steps in their play_book.
P.S. About the money you paid for more trails: It went toward repairing the
fences and restoring the landscapes that you and your buddies ruined.
That's a cryin' shame, Jack. The ATV crowd only has about 20,000 miles of trails
available to them at the present time in Utah. In my opinion, it's about 19,000
miles too many. If you have lost areas to ride in it's because you've proven
yourselves incapable of playing by the rules. Public lands are not the private
domain off off-roaders. They belong to all of us. So when you ride off-trail,
leave your trash, break down fences and no tresspassing signs, ride through
stream beds, and generally don't care about anyone else, you lose access to
those places. In the end, we all lose those places because by the time you're
through with them, they've been seriously altered, if not outright destroyed.
It's a price that everyone pays for the bad habits of a few. The closures will
continue until the behavior changes.
I think there should be an audit done to see how much of the ATV license fees
have been used to improve and grow ATV trails.===IMO...
Utah having ATV trails is NOT a bad thing. If ATV enthusiasts have places they
can ride legally and KNOW where they can ride legally... they won't ride other
places!Of course there will be some jerks who do bad things. But
it's not just the ATV crowd that has their people who break the law and do bad
things.There are good ATV riders out there as well... so it doesn't
help to just try to vilify ALL of them (Just my opinion).And you ATV
riders who give the rest of us a bad name... KNOCK IT OFF!
Further proof that just because you give states more control doesn't mean that
it's an improvement.I remember a line Mel Gibson made in the
Patriot... "Why should I trade my one tyrant who lives 3,000 miles away for
3,000 tyrants one mile away?"I'm convinced that those repubs
who bash the fed government everyday are quite ignorant of what our local
government does. HB477 being just one of many examples...
2 bits, Tax payer money in Utah is misappropriated everyday. That's what
you get with a one party system.A General Fund for friends and relatives
of the highest paying campaign contributers.What about Mayor Godfrey
(Ogden) giving away public property to a private citizen for fifty years? $5,000 contribution was all it took.KDave | 8:50 a.m. April 27,
2011 Moab, UT-The noisiest, smelliest, most torn up place in the State is
SLC. Arguable but...they don't even let ATV's on the streets in
"That" Utah town, imagine how much worse it would be if they did?...over 20,000 miles of trails in Utah and nowhere to ride.
He has a valid point (one every anti-ATV poster has conveniently ignored so
far).His point is... the government started changing annual ATV
license fees and promised this money would be used to IMPROVE and INCREASE
trails available for recreation. And instead it seems they payed to have the
areas where they were riding CLOSED! And instead of using the money to IMPROVE
these areas... they instead used the money to print "Keep OUT" signs.
The money was SUPPOSED to be used to improve the areas... so they could be used
with less chance of damage to the surrounding environment! The money was
evidently mis-appropriated (collected under false pretenses) or mis-used... that
doesn't seem right.===You can post the "Waaaah
waahh" stuff all day... but it doesn't do anything but create contention
and division (and work AGAINST any constructive dialog). Why not try posting
something that would be constructive or helpful, instead of just trying to build
contention?===Some ATV_areas have been improved. I've
heard the Piute_ATV_trail is very nice, but I don't know that any of these funds
were used there. And it's too far away for a day_trip.
Dear Letter writer - Welcome to the land of the free. The fruits and nuts on the
left have little sympathy for you. Lame, half-minded statements like "you
could spend your whole life riding the trails in Utah and never see them
all" are just a blatant example of their stupidity. Like your ATV was the
only one ever sold in the state. To bad you and your fellow riders can't make a
collective effort to have the fees and money "stolen" from you over
the past 30 years refunded to you. Thats what would really get their attention,
especially since that money all got wasted on some other meaning less government
project, and some worthless bureaucrats salary and benefits.
Whaaa!It's never enough for you guys!It would take 1,000
lifetimes to ride every road in Utah and never the same one twice - but that's
still not enough for you.BTW - after 30 years of riding, I would
have thought you'd learn to appreciate what a beautiful State we live in and
would want to share in keeping it that way.
The letter writer's point is not that he likes riding his ATV in the wilderness,
or even that there are not enough trails.His point is that the
government promised something and charged a fee for it, but hasn't followed
through on the promise.This happens all too often.
The noisiest, smelliest, most torn up place in the State is SLC.
ATV riders have hundreds of thousands of trails and roads to ride on. You
couldn't possibly ride every mile of open trail or road in a lifetime. The greed
of the ATV crowd is amazing. Other people love the outdoors as well but not
everyone wants to hear and smell your machines everywhere they go.
Gosh, all you states rights guys can see it isn't such a great thing after all.
Let's see, we could privatize the land like many of you want, but then private
landowners would really shut you down.
Wow... Mr. Fugal, you think maybe in 30 years you'd learn that
public lands aren't your personal playground where you are free to shred the
landscape any way you feel like.
Boo hoo! What a pity you can't be satisfied with the thousands of miles of
available off-road trails in Utah. Please get back to us when you can certify
that you have used and gotten tired of ripping up all of them. Better yet,
please confine your noise and pollution to your own garage.