Extremist - Someone who thinks the part is greater than the whole.Sovereignty, freedom, liberty, as individuals. Brotherhood, family, community
as our highest calling. The rule of law, as the safety valve. These are the
"whole."Unfortunately the "mainstream" RINOs
have turned their back on these core principles, and have far too long, traded
favors for power. Using tax code and regulation to pander to special interests
and corporations. You were granted a thimble full of our sovereignty to keep
the peace and order so that we could make the best of our lives. You lusted for
more, more, more. The shackles of growing oppression, have forced the
hand of the common citizen. Your hope to return to the days of this
slumbering giant, lazily ignoring the seedy back alley you conduct your secret
combinations in, are forever dashed. We are watching, keeping notes, passing
the news. And just to be clear, it is not extreme to desire freedom, liberty
and honesty. What must feel extreme to you good ol' boys, is the swift and
enthusiastic desire of many to finally take a stand.Wish with all
your might, but the ire you created by selling out, is not waining.
To clarify my last comment, they...the "mainstream conservatives" ...
are the rehash of the Nixon moderates...they'd like people to think they are,
but that is an illusion.
Lavarr, what does it really mean to be a "mainstream conservative?"
Please define that term. Anything "mainstream," on a scientific scale,
would mean "moderate." As you know, Reagan was no
moderate and the "moderates" insisted on Reagan naming George Bush as
his running mate to balance the ticket. Reagan was called "far right"
and "extremist." This battle in the Republican Party is one that has
always existed. Everyone wants to be a conservative, apparently. So moderate
and liberal Republicans have simply given themselves a new "me too"
label. This battle is to keep the Reagan Revolution alive in the
Republican Party. I am proudly a Reagan, common sense conservative. They are the
Nixon "conservatives," and even though I went to school with his two
lovely daughters (now very liberal), that would be an oxymoron.
Democracy is the rule of the people who care. We are not governed by the whim
of the masses but by the opinions of those that give a darn. Caucuses are a
perfect example of this. If you consistently don't attend your caucus, one
night every two years, than you have proven you don't care that much. If you do
attend your caucus, you can have an enormous influence, including unseating
powerful and wealthy incumbent senators.
@Pagan: I'm not sure what you think your headlines are supposed to prove but I
can tell you it does nothing to persuade me that you are correct in anything.I can put forward just as many headlines as you do where Democrats have
put their foot in their mouth. Ever hear Joe Biden talk about anything or is
that just "ol' Joe being Joe"?You have shallow arguments
pal.----The last convention and election show that NO
ONE owns the Republican Party except the people who show up and get involved and
are elected as delegates.It takes time to go meet all the candidates
and get past the soundbites but if you are a good delegate you do it. You find
out what they really believe and what they will do.It's the
self-proclaimed moderates who have held power for too long in the Republican
Party. Often times it is difficult to tell the difference between a D and an
R.Conservatives said enough is enough and stood up and got people
elected who believe like they do. You'll never, ever see a Conservative back
away from that label.
Extremist liberals took over a great deal of power within the democrat party a
few years ago.The last election was powerful nationwide repudiation of that
narrow-minded ideological radicalism. Now, we see a similar movement from the
right, a narrow-minded ideological radicalism on a state level. No, not the Tea
Party. But elements both within and without the Tea Party.The Tea Party itself
is just a grass-roots response to the craziness from the left. Now republican
need to keep dialogue open and stop demonizing dissent within the party.
'Who owns the soul of the Utah Republican Party?' - Title Soul? I'm more worried about the brain. *'Gays greatest threat to
America, Buttars says' - By Aaron Falk - DSnews - 02/19/09 *'Buttars
used 'black baby' remark again, officials say' - By Rodger L. Hardy - DSNews -
07/05/08Line: 'At an earlier legislative session Buttars said in
referring to a bill, "this baby is black ... it's a dark and ugly
thing." *'Sen. Orrin Hatch utters profanity about President
Obama's health care reform' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar - DSNews - 03/01/11 *'Herbert's new education panel missing diversity' - By Amy K. Stewart
- Deseret News - 04/19/10 Nationally: *Sen. Kyle mocked
for making up numbers in abortion debate By Sarah Iraelsen-Hartley DSNews
04/12/11 *'Sharron Angle's Advice For Rape Victims Considering
Abortion: Turn Lemons Into Lemonade' - Sam Stein - Huffington Post - 07/08/10 *'Brewer Finally Backpedals: I Was Wrong About Headless Bodies' - By
Ben Frumin - Talking Points Memo
LaVarr - you and your friends, Doug Wright, Kirk Jowers, Bob Bennett, Mike
Leavitt, etc. fear the caucuses because you cannot control them. You would
prefer that the elites, and lobbyists like yourselves control things instead of
your neighbors that take the time to show up at the caucuses. You love every
thing that Chaffetz has done in the last 3 years, you just hate that he beat
your candidates Cannon and Leavitt at convention, and Cannon again in a primary.
You don't like Chaffetz because you, the king makers, did not choose him, not
because of what he has done while in office.When Bennett lost last
year at convention, he spent 10 times more than Lee, Bridgewater and Eagar
combined. Some joked that he should have saved some money and just sent every
delegate an iPad with a 'VOTE BENNETT' screen saver instead. He did not lose
because was not conservative enough. He lost because he forgot what his job was.
He is an arrogant elitist that lost touch with his constituency.
Let's see...Not accepting $100 million for the unemployed to teach
them a lesson,but paying out $13 million to businesses for doing
nothing,Passing last minute secret laws to protect their secrets, Blaming Public education for nearly all economic shortfalls,Helping
People bad - helping Business good, mentality....Political purism
and absolute control equates to regimes like Nazism, Maoism, and the Islamic
Taliban.The correct answer is:Moderation is ALL
Pretty polite article that would have the reader believe everything that is
written is true. Several points they make are not really factual, for
example"Their legislation respects the rule of law, allows
compassion and provides Utah business with hard workers"this
legislation has been deemed illegal by the state and the fed so it does not
respect the law. And since when do Utah employers need help finding hard
workers when those legals who will work are not hired?Another thing
they say is that Utah has good governors then lists some of the past but they
also include the present who has signed into law several faux paux's, such as
access to government info, illegal immigration, and now a highway spending bill
that has come under repeal. How many of these is a governor allowed before he
gets himself out of the "good govenor" group? Herberts group also
cost the taxpayer $12 million on another higway deal gone bad so there was a
payoff.If the state were run as a business the business would have a
new boss by now or be broke.
The caucus system is the best way to make sure grass roots movements can work
over large amounts of money. It is the only way someone with $100,000 can go
against someone with $2,000,000 in election funds.Most people that
want the caucus system changed, there are exceptions, are frustrated that they
don't have as much power as people that show up to the caucus meetings. It
doesn't take money, you just have to show up.What we need are more
people getting involved earlier, not shutting down the system that protects us
from the power hungry people wanting to take over.
It is the caucus/convention/primary system used by the Utah GOP (and to a lesser
extent, the Democrats) that allows newcomers with limited funding to credibly
challenge and even defeat well funded, entrenched incumbents. Hence Chaffetz's
win over Cannon and Lee over Bennett. The caucus system greatly
diminishes the power of incumbency, money, and the media in Utah's elections.
And so the media dislikes the system. And given the DesNew's close
relationship with the Cannon family it is nigh unto a violation of professional
journalism standards and ethics for the paper to report or opine on the system
that allowed Cannon's defeat by a newcomer without disclosing the obvious
potential conflict of interest.
This article is an example of the acceptable, subtle, incivility that is
accepted even as the media cries for "civility".Start with
the headline about "owning" the GOP. Can we expect the same headline
about who "owns" the Democrat party next week? Or will the
implications that GOP nominees are bought and paid for be left only with the
GOP?Next, notice how the GOP is divided into only two camps:
moderate/mainstream and "far right." Are there no left leaning
republicans? It seems there are not even any "far left" democrats as
democrats are grouped into "moderate/centrist" and just plain
"democrats." From the perspective of our media, it seems
there is no such thing as the far left or any radical liberals in this nation.
"Socialist" is a dirty word even as we are forced to accept socialized
medicine, which has been renamed "single payer" or
"national" health care to conveniently hide the truth.Here
is the answer to the central question.Thanks to Utah's
caucus/convention/primary system, the GOP is run by those who care enough to
show up, rather than by any big money interests.Who can object to
Looks like no Dem can detail what they believe, why it's better than the rest
and why we should all embrace it.All we get is the same old tired
diatribes of how bad the "right" is.Pretty pathetic when
you can't make a case FOR something and always have to put down those who don't
believe like you.@truthseeker: interesting quotes but they mean
what? We should embrace Socialism? Communism? More spending? Government
dictating everything we should buy, say, how much money we can keep to take care
of our family? Who gets their wealth redistributed against their will and who
gets to receive that wealth by doing absolutely nothing?All of your
Socialist programs are against the Constitution but the Left doesn't care about
that document.Borders? What are those? Just more voters on the
rolls.Abortion? just killing a fetus, not a human.Military? Who needs one with open borders. Environmental concerns?
Don't have any now since we have open borders and will bring all the world's
population to America.America? Gone. Now under the New World Order
with Soros in charge!I'll pass!
Love how this article is phrased the "far right conservatives" really
as opposed to the far left "main stream conservatives". How about
stop the name calling! At least, that speech by the President everyone can agree
"In the present crisis," referring specifically to the high taxes and
high levels of federal spending that had marked the Carter administration,
"government is not the solution to our problem; government is the
problem." He then went on to say: "Now, so there will be no
misunderstanding, it's not my intention to do away with government. It is rather
to make it work."Ronald Reagan"..The difference
between ideological advocacy and holding public office: Having accepted partial
responsibility for the nation's well-being, one assumes an obligation that goes
beyond bumper-sticker slogans. Certitude is the enemy of wisdom, and in office,
it is wisdom, not certitude, that is required...Over the last several years,
conservatives have turned themselves inside out: They have come to worship small
government and have turned their backs on limited government. They have turned
to a politics of exclusion, division and nastiness."(Mickey Edwards,
co-founder of Heritage Foundation, "Reagan Wouldn't Recognize This
@esquire: you have't put forth any facts. You've just shared a post, again, with
your hatred and vitriol towards anyone who doesn't believe like you.@ETBass: you're no better than esquire. Do you have any details for your
name-calling or do you just feel better because you used the word 'nutjob' in a
sentence.I'm betting that you learned that in PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Right
Lifelong Repub?Are you so beholdened to the teachers union that you
see no room for improvement in our school system? Or is everything just going so
well that we shouldn't worry about getting rid of bad teachers, improving the
curriculum, voting out salary-heavy lame administrators.Not one of
you who condemn and trash Republicans, conservatives or tea partiers have put
forth anything that is worth considering. You have told us what you are for and
why we should vote your way.Condemning vouchers etc isn't an
argument. What do you stand for? Why do you stand for it? Why should I vote your
way?What is mainstream and why is it mainstream? Maybe my beliefs
are mainstream and you folks are the extreme left!
Get a clue LaVar, if you think "moderates" are taking over you don't
know what is going on. True Republicans are taking the rest of the party back
next March, a movement that started in 2010 and the heroes you describe like
Hebert are done. HB116 was rammed through in a fashion similar to Obamacare by
"Chamber of Commerce" Republicans(hotel owners, dairy farmers, etc.)
who believe in a "plantation philosophy" of "we need the slaves
to pick the cotton". If you think that is the future of the party and that
those guys are going to dominate going forward then you need to find a new line
of work. I was a delegate at the county convention and I can tell that the mood
there is one of "no amnesty of any kind for any reason" and that it is
time for RINOS to go elsewhere. The delegates like myself and others were sent
there because we represented the will of the people in the districts who
attended the mass meetings and feel the same way we do. HB116 and RINOs backing
it are on their way out.
So, those precinct caucuses and conventions are bad now that the citizens have
discovered that they can actually have an effect on Utah politics? This seems to
have upset the lobbyists and special interest groups that feel their control
slipping away. In 2008 citizens realized when Jason Chaffetz was able to replace
Rep Cannon with a fraction of the financing that they no longer had to submit to
lobbyists and their financing of incumbents. In 2010 they realized
that the citizens could remove an incumbent senator, who was representing money
and political power, but not the citizens of Utah. The Republican Citizens
packed their neighborhood precinct meetings and refused to vote for delegates
that appeared to favor the incumbent senator. The lobbyists and special interest
are not going to let this happen again if the can help it. Therefore we have
this article by LaVarr Web, a paid lobbyist. Lobbyists lost a lot of
money in their investment at the 2010 convention, when Utah Republican Delegates
refused, by wide margin to nominate the incumbent. In addition the convention
delegates stayed to the bitter end of the convention in order to place an
anti-amnesty plank in the platform.
The nutjobs control the party. There is no room for moderates in the Utah
I would like to ask Mr. Webb who has been governing our nation the last
half-century? No, it hasn't been the tea-party. Not the folks from Code Pink.
Those in the middle gave us wars in the middle east, the Patriot Act, a 14
trillion dollar debt and other problems that we face. I got involved in
politics for the first time last year and I was one of those wackos who helped
unseat Bob Bennett. It seems that both Piganelli and Webb believe that as long
as you vote the right letter, everything will be fine. I don't consider myself
a Tea Party person, but if what they believe is that just being a Republican
isn't good enough, than I'm with them one hundred percent.
What did Nancy Pelosi say recently? That "moderate Republicans" need
to take back their party ..so that elections won't matter. Yes indeed Mrs
Pelosi. Maybe that's why "the far right" had so much influence in the
last election - we saw that the REpublican mainstream e.g. Bob Bennett were a
little too comfortable working with the far left. George Bush and amnesty, John
Huntsman and global warming you could go and on Why be a Republican if
there is no difference between that party and the Democrat party of 30 years
ago? Say what you like about the "far right" but it plays an
important role in keeping the Republican party from drifting too far left like
it did under G.W. Bush
To Craig: Richard Nixon's domestic policies would put him to the left of most
Democrats today. Eiesenhower said that anyone wanting to undo the New Deal was
"stupid". Sorry, but I think your analysis is backward.
I find it humorous that Mr. Webb attempts such a back-handed compliment of the
Tea Party. "Mainstream" and "Far-Right" are not necessarily
mutually exclusive. One is a measure of popularity, the other a location on an
ideological spectrum. To presume that a far-right ideology can not be mainstream
reveals the tin ear that too many Republicans have given to their constituents,
and which gave birth to the TEA Party movement.Also, given Mr.
Webb's close assiciations with certain past governors (with reputations as being
on the liberal-mderate side), I would challenge his assertion of being
mainstream or conservative. Republican, yes, but really in name only.
The GOP in owned by the radical right, plain and simple. Reagan wouldn't be
welcome in today's GOP. That's what's happened, and you all seem so oblivious
to that fact.
To all the self proclaimed moderate Republicans: Please explain how the folks
you elected the past 30 years have run up $14 trillion in debt and you still
support them? Cause those of us that have been trying to get across the
message that we are spending far too much still wonder what you're thinking.
Moderates support big government. Period.
re: RanchHand | 8:23 a.m. April 24, 2011I don't disagree. However,
isn't interesting that the State Capitol, Utah GOP HQ, & the church office
bldg are all within a mile of each other on State Street in downtown SLC.
I do not consider Mr Webb a mainstream conservative. Those who move to the left
try to convince everybody else that they are still in the right. A Democrat
thirty years ago would be in the mainstream Republican view today. The right
wing has not changed, others have moved left.
I'll tell you and all future candidates what us moderate Republicans are looking
for.Someone that supports public education. Not charter schools,
not vouchers, not demeaning the teachers of our children.If that
candidate comes along, he or she will win in a landslide.Right now
the ultra right thinks they have to blast public ed and the teachers. This is
where they are losing the battle with the public and if they aren't careful will
lose their power.Us parents see public ed as a GOOD thing not the
evil that is portrayed by the far right.It really is that simple.
Oh my goodness! Is it the Republican Party that has destroyed this country or is
it self-serving politicians egged on by a self-serving public whose mantra is
"Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!"?Posters have singled out elected
officials and smeared them with paint from the brush of their own bigotry. It's
no wonder that people see the "system" as being corrupt when they,
themselves, are corrupt.The Republican caucus system is the best
thing that has happened to the REPUBLICAN PARTY in Utah politics. No longer can
an incumbent spend himself back into office. No longer can he count on sleepy
sheep following along as he 'shepherds' them to his fold. Those interested
enough to stop whatever they were doing for an evening have the chance to boldly
tell candidates that they're fed up with empty promises. We're all
conservatives on certain issues and liberals on others. Even the most liberal,
judging from what they post, are very conservative when it comes to allowing
some non-liberal to speak in their opposition. Even the most conservative has a
liberal attitude about 'defense' spending.Bickering is not unique to
No one on these pages, including the 2 authors of the post, have put anything
forward to detail what is or isn't mainstream and why what you consider
mainstream is better than what you don't consider mainstream.It's
not about labels of political points of view but the details of the principles
of those points of view.I chuckle when I read on these pages every
day how bad the "extreme right wing", "ultra reich wing",
"wingnuts", "AM raido", "Rush, Beck and Hannity"
are. What you never ever do is detail why their political positions are wrong
and why yours are right. In fact, it's a rarity if one doing the denigrating of
the Repubs ever puts forth their own plan of action and why it should be
considered and is better.I don't know what "mainstream"
means and neither do any of you. What you take it for is when someone agrees
with your point of view and the rest are extreme. No one gives pause that their
own points might be extreme and not mainstream.Every comment is
stating that conservative views are bad but no one says why. Up for it?
The headline presupposes that the Republican party has a soul. And the opening
sentence presupposes that it has a heart. Both are debatable in a party where
the Eagle Forum has become to be seen as "not conservative enough".
We've been here before folks. In 1948 Truman joked that "Out of the great
progress of this country, out of our great advances in achieving a better life
for all, out of our rise to world leadership, the Republican leaders have
learned nothing. Confronted by the great record of this county, and the
tremendous promise of its future, all they do is croak, 'socialism.'"A return to realism at that time was led by Maine Republican Senator
Margaret Chase Smith, who feared was harming not just it's electoral prospects
but the country. That summer she would issued her "Declaration of
Conscience" "I don't want to see a Republican ride to political
victory on the Four Horsemen of Calumny- Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry, and
Smear."She went on to say, "I don't believe the American
people will uphold any political party that puts political exploitation above
Who owns? The Party or the people? The people of America have always trumped
the Party. Our governments, local, state and federal, are owned BY the people,
FOR the people and OF the people. The Party will always yield to people,
because Party power is derived from people. If you hate what the Party is
doing, then the people have no one to blame but themselves. People ARE the
Party. Slinging slurs like "party wingnuts" isn't very enlightening
or useful in the discussion. Get involved and reshape the Party into an image
more to your liking. Put the next caucus meeting in March 2012 into your
calendar. Show up. Participate. Choose candidates who reflect your values.
Nobody owns the Party but YOU.
Mike:: Your right about holding your nose and choosing the least smelly
candidate. But this is a republican state. Full of idealogical short sighted
voters who put people like Mike Waddoups, Karl Wimmer, and Cris Buttars in
office again and again. Never considering a candidate if he is democrat. Things
need to change, or we will just get the same ol same ol, every election cycle.
Mr. Webb's (and commenters) defense of the Utah caucus system is dishonorable.
It isn't a coincidence that this system results in such a low participation
rate, despite being designed to be open. Many segments can't just put that date
on their calendar. Some people work those hours. Single parents often can't
get away. And even when political newcomers go to extreme lengths to make
arrangements and attend, their voices are many times silenced by the momentum of
those already in power. Utah's extremism won't change until the caucus system
We can start by getting rid of everyone who voted for (either time), or signed,
HB477. We also need to take back the Republican party from the far right
wingnuts, and make its candidates more in line with the more moderate Utah
citizens' frame of mind.
Two often voting becomes an exercise in holding your nose while you mark the
ballot because both candidates stink.It shouldn't be that way.As a registered republican, is my allegiance to the party or am I duty
bound to find, promote, and vote for a candidate who has the backbone and the
ability to represent my principles and the principles of my family?Political parties are necessary evils. We are not Republican-Americans, nor
are we Democrat-Americans. We are Americans. The same goes for Utah. We are
not Republican-Utahns nor are we Democrat-Utahns.Integrity keeps us
from voting for someone whose party platform violates our conscience. That same
integrity should propel us to vote for people who understand the role they will
fill as our representatives. They should understand the limits that we, the
people of Utah, have placed on them. They should fully understand their
authorized duties. Within that context there is room for discussion and debate.
Outside of that context, its just mindless babbling.Lay down the
party flag-waving. It was a bad idea when it began. It's still a bad idea.
Who owns the Republican party (and the Democrats for that matter)?The one who brings the most Cold-Hard-Cash to the table, that's who.
How hard was it to figure out that a party is controlled by those who donate
money and by those that participate (i.e., show up)?
The battle in the Republican party today reminds me of the Democrats in the
sixties and seventies, where mainstream Democrats were being challenged by the
"New Left" for control of the party. The New Left became too
influential, the party became too extreme, and a big chunk of long-time
Democratic voters deserted the party.The Republicans could learn
Don't get me wrong. I think I'm a moderate like most Utahns. It's just better
to study both parties, compare with your priorities, and choose "the lesser
of two evils" earlier rather than later. Then we won't be pinching our
noses so tightly when we are in the voting booth.
Mr. Webb best described who will own the soul of the Utah Republican Party:"...the task is pretty simple. Mainstream Republicans need to turn
out in large numbers at precinct caucuses at 7 p.m., Tuesday, March 27, 2012,
and mainstream Republicans will be back in charge. Put it on your
calendar."Reword his statement to cover all parties and states
and we identify who owns the political soul of America. Show up or forfeit your
future to extremists. Never again complain about "the lesser
of two evils" on the ballot. Neglect your neighborhood party organizing
event and you choose one of those evils by default. Too many Utahns wear their
"unaffiliated" party status as if it were a badge of honor. Actually
it is a confession of willful neglect.