Comments about ‘Readers' forum: Left is gullible’

Fred L. Greer

This letter was difficult to read, so I can only assume you're mad at liberals, and used a Thesaurus to try to make youself sound more intelligent in your rant.

I think the Blue ribbon winner and 1st prize of Gullibility belongs to all the Ultra-Far-Right folks, donning their pointy Tin-Foil-Hats, listening to AM radios, in bomb shelters, eating Glenn Beck's food storage, that they are they only TRUE Americans, seriously believing our President is not an America citizen, and is an fact a secret Muslim and Communist.

People who live in Glass houses should not throw stones.

Professor Stark makes a statement in the article that, "Both LDS and Christians in general have some pretty severe limits..." Anyone who assumes they are not one and the same has a credibility issue with me.

And the author's attack on Saul Alinsky, with the usual lazy charge from the right of his Socialist/Marxist teachings is refuted by his own words, "And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right.' If you don't have that...you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by ... fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide." He doesn't sound like a supporter of Marxisim, does he?

Conservative author William F. Buckley said Alinsky was "very close to being an organizational genius." But I guess organizing poor and downtrodden people held down by bigotry is a crime to the far right but it provokes the question, "Just who are the gullible ones?"

Mr. Greer

Please go back and read the article you cite. It has nothing to do with being politically liberal or conservative. The study from Prof. Stark looks at how those who are theologically conservative (religiously orthodox) stack up against those who are not reference belief in things such as UFOs, Bigfoot, etc.

All this letter is going to do is stir up unneeded animosity. The Deseret News should filter these things better.

@LDS Liberal

It appears to me that you have successfully answered what some might call a partisan, myopic, us vs. them letter, in kind. The ultra-right and the ultra-left certainly deserve a share of blame for the lack of civility in politics, but I'm always surprised at the hyper-partisanship that can be seen in the most moderate of voices.

re: LDS Liberal | 12:10 a.m. April 19, 2011

As usual, you've only thrown stones at the messenger and ignored the message.

Mr. Greer quoted Michael De Groote: "Two and one-half times greater gullibility on the left than on the right as surveyed by Baylor University professor Rodney Stark and reported by Michael De Groote."

250% greater gullibility on the left means that those who call themselves 'liberals' are 250% more gullible that those who do not call themselves 'liberal'.

Professor Stark is co-director of religious studies at Baylor University. He taught for thirty-two years at the University of Washington. He studied at Berkley. He has written 28 books and 144 articles.

How about commenting on Professor Stark's message?

How about giving Professor Stark credit for having done his homework - thoroughly?

We have an incompetent President who is failing to lead this country out of a very serious problem. Professor Stark has given a very valid reason why people voted for Mr. Obama. The people were 'gullible'. They were 'hoodwinked'. They were 'fooled'.

We can all see the results of a poor choice. Now we know why that choice was made.

"How else to explain the rise to the apex of American political power with little accomplishment or experience?"

The left?

Can you say Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Sharron Angle, Carl Paladino, Christine O'Donnell.

These are the darlings of the right.

Tell me again, who is gullible?

Gulability of the reigious it said. I don't have any idea what that has to do with the left that doesn't base it's politics on religion as the right does.

The hope and change stuff must mean you think we are gullable for voting for Obama. He said he would change health care, check. He said he would regulate the banks more, check. He said he would support gay rights, check. Now the left wanted more but we essentially got what we voted for.

A majority of republicans and other right wing folk believe Obama is a Muslim, was not born in Hawaii and was going to take your guns. Still have your guns don't you.... I give up on the others, you will never believe the facts.

But hey, thanks for convincing the entire Middle East that Obama is Muslim. That's why they are all rising up and expecting the US to help them.

It amazes me how frequently one can be influenced to vote against their own best interests.

And this writer wants to laugh at the left's gullibility?

The survey is badly flawed and for a person to denigrate another based on it shows a lack of comprehension.

The most glaring flaw is that it treated belief in religion different than belief in astrology and the occult. If it were legitimate these would be parallel.

The survey blatantly shows the bias of Stark and his team.

Here's a quote: ""Education won't do it," he said. "If you don't want your kid to believe in Bigfoot don't send him to school, send him to Sunday school.""

So he's saying it's gullible to believe in Bigfoot and not a virgin birth, heaven or the earth being created in 7 days. It's obvious bias.

I am opposed to gullibility in all its incarnations and regardless of political persuasion.

That said, listing all the things the religious right believes in that are objectively, demonstrably untrue would exceed the word limit of this forum.

"Intelligent Design," anyone?

And as JoeBlow pointed out so well above, all that is necessary to reveal where the greatest gullibility actually lies, left vs. right, is to look at the people in the spotlight representing each political philosophy.

Add: "Not at any time. I've never joined any organization not even the ones I've organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right.' If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide." - Saul Alinsky

I think gullibility is not restrained to only the left. As for the study cited, it would be interesting to see the sample used. If only identifying oneself as "liberal" is the sole criteria, it is not a fair study with a random sample to properly represent the population. Purely anecdotal, but it seems the far right never question their pundits, and the far left never question theirs. People who are unable to think critically, question their own beliefs, and disagree with the talking heads seem very gullible to me. How many far right people disagree with much of Glenn Beck? How many far left disagree with much of Keith Olbermann? They hear what they want to hear and only believe every word they say.

Great Great Letter from the writer, you describe liberals to a tee. Way to go.

Fred Greer,

Have you read Saul Alinsky? One of his first teachings is to demonize one person on the opposite side and rally your forces against this person. I think the right has read him and is using this by blaming everything bad in the world on Obama.

Don't think that just the left uses Alinsky. If you had read him, you would know that you are being led by the right, just like Alinsky taught.

It's probably true that liberals are more gullible as a whole. Mainly because they comprise more real Americans than other named groups.

The left, the derogatory name given to Liberals, are those people who actually believe in the promise of the United States Constitution of equal opportunity and freedom for all the people not just the selected few.

And so, the left is labeled as gullible for believing so.

"You can balance the budget by cutting taxes"--need I say more?

Mr. Greer,

You seem to believe that Obama adheres to the "socialist/marxist teachings of Saul Alinsky," yet you are calling others gullible. As a fellow conservative, I am embarrassed by your reasoning.

Okay, I just went back and read the original article. It states that conservative evangelicals are less likely to believe in the occult/paranormal than other members of "liberal" churches or casual religious observers. Atheists are the least likely to believe in the occult/paranormal.

The article has absolutely nothing to do with politics. The author of this letter read the article to mean what he wanted it to mean.

*'Univ. of Maryland study finds Fox News viewers to be misinformed on key issues' - By Ryan Witt - Examiner - 12/17/10

'Over 40% of respondents said President Obama started TARP even though TARP was signed into law by President Bush on October 3rd of 2008.'

*'During the June 6 edition of Fox News' America's Pulse, host E.D. Hill teased an upcoming discussion by saying, "A fist bump? A pound? A terrorist fist jab?'

* 'Bill O'Reilly apologizes to Shirley Sherrod for 'not doing my homework' - By Matea Gold - LA Times - Published by DSNews - 07/22/10

Line:
'NEW YORK Fox News host Bill O'Reilly offered a rare mea culpa Wednesday, apologizing for airing a controversial tape of a speech given by a black U.S. Dept. of Agriculture official that was edited to make it appear she was racist.'

*Sen Kyl mocked for making up numbers in abortion debate By Sara Israelsen-Hartley DSNews 04/12/11

It's not just the left... We are ALL gullible IF we think that EITHER party has all wisdom, all good ideas, or anything but their OWN interest and keeping THEMSELVES in power at the forefront of their agenda.

Anybody who thinks ONE PARTY has all the answers... and the OTHER PARTY is always wrong... is gullible.

Anybody who can't see that both parties are most interested in staying in power... is gullible.

Anybody who thinks they don't have to keep an eye on their politicians (IF they are from their party)... is gullible.

Anybody who thinks only Democrats have good ideas... is gullible.

Anybody who thinks only Republicans have good ideas... is gullible.

Anybody who thinks Republicans only say no... listens to too much Democrat clap-trap.

Anybody who thinks all Democrats are Communists... listens to to much Republican clap-trap.

We need the ideas of both parties, and we need to keep an open-eye on both parties (not just turn a blind-eye to your own party and give them a free-ride and your undieing support).