Sorry Doug, bad article. It was not properly investigated and thought out.
Money? It's all about money???Get a clue.It's all about
EXPOSURE, and more importantly, what they get for more exposure...future
converts!And with that I say, GO COUGARS!!
I agree that this is NOT about the money at all. It is about getting exposure
and this wouldn't happen in the MWC because of the Mtn.
The Utes and the Cougs should have waited in the MWC??? Wait 24
months and read this article again. The Ute football team will be known for
thumping PAC-12 opponents on a regular basis and the Cougs will be playing Notre
Dame and Georgia Tech on national T.V. Coug basketball will be thriving and ute
basketball will have revived. The so-called "minor" sports will be
thriving for both schools. Enough nonsense Doug! It was a great
summer when Utahans waved goodbye at the MWC.
Surprising article but a good analysis. I think you are quite right, ESPN isn't
making a contract with BYU because they are so fond of them, they simply want
cannon fodder for bigger name and bigger draw schools. They may or may not get
more money but one things for sure and that is that the rest of the programs
including a promising basketball program have been thrown under the bus.
Let me get this right Doug. Our leaders at BYU, including the President, a
member of the Seventy and the Board of Directors, apostles and the 1st
Presidency put no thought into this and did not make it a matter of prayer, but
you in your infinite wisdom decided they are all wrong and you are right. That
is real chutzpa in my mind. To whom did you go for your insight?
The only purpose this article serves is as food for the trolls.
Let's see...Gonzaga and St. Mary's or UNLV and SDSU. I'd say that
was a wash or maybe even advantage WCC. SDSU had a good run this year but will
drop off a lot next year.Then you have cough, cough Utah, oh wait
they are now in the Pac 10.2. Good thing the tough competition is moving on to
the big time. LOL.Wyoming, NM, AF, CSU, TCU.Not much to
write home about there.By the way, BYU isn't about the money. They
have all the money they now need or will ever need. The basis for this article
is so off base it is laughable.
@Flashback: So Utah is guilty of a sin of commission while BYU is guilty of a
sin of omission? I'm pickin up what you're puttin down.One has to wonder
if it's better to act, or be acted upon? Act or react?
At the end of the day, except for a reporter writing a "the sky is
falling" article to stir things up, who really cares? Have you ever been
to a track meet at BYU.....neither has anyone else. The basketball team can
still make the tournament, but will play inferior competition to do so. Maybe
they can schedule an actual good non-conference opponent for a change.
Volleyball, baseball, soccer, tennis, golf will have better competition. The
other sports don't draw enough fans to get all worked up about this.
@I M LDS 2Given the level of your comments regarding politics, I'm
not surprised that you would agree with Doug. You continue to claim an LDS title
but reject LDS teaching. (go I M LDS 2?)
I agree with Doug. BYU sold out big time in order to exploit the football cash
cow.It really is shameful.(go cougs?)
Does Robinson just copy and paste articles from the Tribune these days? Nothing
in this article hasn't been written before. Sounds like he's been reading Ute
boards with the "high school gyms" propaganda. BYU will play in front
of more Gonzaga fans next year than Utah fans this year.
I am a little surprised to see this article coming out of the Des News, but
thanks for telling it like it is, Doug. Of course the Koolaid drinkers and spin
meisters who have been bending over backwards to try to find some good in all
this are upset with you. I have stated several times that BYU has trivialized
all the other sports at the expense of football (and as you stated it isn't
clear at all that the football team is going to benefit) and have received venom
galore from the faithful. Ouch! But sports breed emotion and that's what makes
it fun, but come on people, it is okay to look at it with a rational eye once in
a while and call a spade a spade. I hope BYU can get all of its sports into a
good conference, perhaps like the Big 12. I know, I am drinking the Kool-aid
now, but one can still dream, right?
Football dominates all major colleges. I was amazed to find out the pay
discrepancy between, not only the football coaches, compared to the same
school's other sports coaches, but also with their athletic trainers. It's
amazing, just from the info I got from my friend who is an athletic trainer at
the University of Georgia. Their is no parity between the different sports in
colleges.Football is king. That's, unfortunately, the way it is.
Doug,I love the irony in your comment, "During the winter indoor
season, the track team will compete in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation
whatever that is."You pretend to be the defender of the
"other sports" but you don't even know that the MPSF indoor track
schools include Arizona, ASU, Cal, UCLA, Stanford, Washingtn and Oregon, some of
the premier track programs in the country.If those other sports were
so important to you how come you only write about football and basketball?
Duke's Cameron Stadium Capacity: 9,300That smaller arena has really
hurt their national appeal and recruiting, hasn't it Doug?It's the
ability to follow a team nationally that matters, not the onsite seating
If it was all about the money, Davies would still be in school.
Wow, what a great story. It is the truth, what is frustrating is that if anyone
mentioned any of the things written in the article in the comments section it
would be banned and denied. The censorship is really crazy at the Desert News.
So glad for an article that tells the truth.
Sure glad I don't pay to read this drivel. Oh, yeah, and I won't have to pay
through the nose to watch pathetic broadcasts of "the mtn". Maybe
Doug Robinson hasn't noticed the oblivion BYU called tv home the last 6
years...as for playing in small stadiums, at least they will be full! A few
seasons ago I caught BYU at Portland and the place was ROCKING with BYU fans.
BYU will not play in an empty stadium in the WCC. Guaranteed.
BYUalum,Not as slow as it was when Dick wrote about how Ozzy visited
Heaps during practice...Still laugh about that.
Wow, if the goal of a column is to generate interest from the readers, Doug hit
it out of the park on this one. I don't think I've seen a column get more
comments than this. Way to go Doug! The Dnews should give you a raise.
Dougie, You never fail to be the negative Ned do you? You put your
foot in your mouth when you came out with the article about BYU wasting their
time playing Oklahoma. You spouted off how they would get destroyed and had no
chance at all. How did that go again? oh thats right BYU beat oklahoma in front
of a national audience. With the move to independence Dougie, BYU will be seen
much more frequently on national tv in both Football and Basketball. They now
have a real tv contract with espn instead of the lowly mountain where more then
half the world probably doesnt even know exists. Sure the basketball team will
play in the WCC in smaller gyms but sobeit, at least they will be playing on
espn and byutv. So they will play about 8 to 10 games out of 30 some odd in
small gyms per year, big deal. And then there is your statement about byu as 6
to 7 win team being independent in football, come on Dougie thats maybe a
absolute worst case scenerio. BYU has the talent and is very capable of beating
the teams they are scheduling.
Funny to watch the Cougar Nation explode with indignation over less than the
typical adoring coverage from the DN. Good job Doug. Someone had to
Wow...this article is wrong on so many different levels that I don't know where
to begin...so I won't :)
Loved the comments about this great story on BYU selling out the other programs
just to make a few million $ in Football. Since I'm trying to buy a winter
residence in SoCal I'm jumping for joy that BYU Basketball will play 6 league
games in California. Now I can attend those games instead of going to the MC.
Burr I don't like the cold weather. I have followed Pepperdine since high
school. Great school, great surf. Thanks BYU for making my dreams come true.
Here's another thought about the money - actually 2 thoughts. First thought:
The latest report on BYU Sports said that the majority of the programs were
being subsidized by football and the BYU Sports were making money. The other
thought: With the MWC tv contract, schools could only afford to bring in 1 or 2
big name schools a year. As an independent, BYU can afford to bring in twice
that number and still support the rest of the sports program.Losing
records? Mediocre records? As long as BYU has quality coaches, I seriously
doubt that there will be a long run of losing seasons.
Those who keep saying Robinson is right, that football is driving the move or
that the WCC isn't as good as the MWC, are missing the point. Of course
football is the biggest sport by far and is driving the rest in going
independent. There's no other way, since the MWC won't take BYU without
football. And obviously the WCC isn't as good as the MWC in most sports in
terms of competition and respect. Just as obviously, a basketball team from the
WCC can earn top-notch respect. These are things everyone who follows sports
knows.Where Robinson goes off the rails is right in the headline, in
claiming the move was about money. BYU has been as clear as can be that it's
not primarily about money, and there isn't the slightest evidence to show
they're not telling the truth. The move makes perfect sense as a matter of
exposure. Money matters, of course, but as we saw with the suspension of
Brandon Davies, other things matter as much or more.
It's interesting that the vast majority of fans who support BYU's move to
independence are BYU fans, while the vast majority of fans who criticize the
move are BYU haters or Utah fans.Isn't curious how obsessed our
friends on the hill have become in looking out for BYU's best interests.
Many colleges don't have men's soccer teams so BYU has been playing in a
semi-pro league for years. The men's volleyball team has been playing in another
league for years as well.
I guess there must be a quota for comments a writer gets per month. Doug must've
been a bit short....
I must admit, I'm shocked at all of the negative takes on your article, Doug.
You put to words what I've thought for a long time. The WCC seems like a major
step backwards for most of BYU sports, especially men's basketball, and while it
might be fun to see BYU play some of the bigger named schools, who wants to see
them get pounded more than they already do sometimes?!Only time will
tell if the BYU administration was inspired on this call.
Again, does anyone know ANYTHING about the WCC and the sports BYU has "sold
out" to??? You look in the rankings and almost every sport has a West
Coast team ranked higher than any MWC teams. Believe me, the "other"
sports at BYU are not missing out on anything leaving the MWC. I played
volleyball and water polo and was highly recruited in California--Pepperdine was
one of the first schools on my list because it is a prestigious school with
excelllent sports programs. Many of my friends who played soccer chose USD over
the SDSUs, Wyomings, or ASUs. Besides all of that, the WCC is more aligned with
BYU being religious, private instituions with lots of money.I don't
care what you think about BYU, but this was a very poorly researched article.
Wow, Doug, it must be a very slow day in the news room for you to write on this
old topic. In my opinion this was the worst article you have ever written for
all the reasons above. Most of the BYU fans are just fine with the
new arrangement. The Ute fans are gleefully chomping at the bit to knock
anything about the Y. I don't think Dave Rose would have come back
as coach if he didn't see something that you, obviously, don't see. Go pick on
the Runnin' Utes.Go Cougars!
Yeah, would have been great to stay with the likes of Boise State. But Fresno
State and Nevada may not have fled the WAC and been invited to the MWC if BYU
and Utah headed out for greener pastures. Saint Mary's and Gonzaga are perennial
powerhouses in basketball, so while you have worthy insight concerning track
(were you a track athlete?), you are wrong when it comes to basketball in the
WCC. The addition of BYU will make the WCC rival the MWC. The Mountain TV deal
kept the Cougars in regional isolation. Many people did not get to see Jimmer
play as much as they would have had the Cougars been out of the MWC. BYU will
win at least 8 games this year in football. Three cheers for independence!
Is it considered plagiarism when you steal the "intellectual" property
of Utah trolls, such as Hedgehog and Chris B.? Because that's what you did. At
the very least, it seems like lazy "journalism".I would go
into just how faulty your logic is, but cougarinboston | 1:16 a.m. has already
done a wonderful job of that.
One of the consistent arguments in favor of leaving the conference is the
mistreatment of BYU by other MWC schools. Do you really think religious schools
in CA are going to love you any more? A move from secular anti-mormonism to
religious anti-mormonism is a horizontal move at best.Also, the
arrogance of many BYU fans is one of the reasons BYU was so fun to dislike (as
confirmed by this discussion board). I will miss nearly 100 years of tradition
lost - but after reading these comments - the change might not be so bad.
As a BYU alum I have been puzzled by the Athletic Department for years. Ever
since they dropped wrestling and gave at best a stupid reason, and worse, a lie
for doing so I have had my doubts. The color and uniform changes were
ridiculous, and now this moronic move tells me the AD is fumbling around again.
I bleed Blue, but I wish Coog fans would forget the Big 12 dream. Something may
happen eventually for BYU football to take them back into a conference,
especially if their ratings, schedule and on-field success are strong as an
independent. But be careful, a Big 12 that needs BYU may be a ghost of its old
self. That invite would probably go out to Air Force, and BYU as its partner.
Not making my heart beat very fast.I really look forward to BYU-TV
broadcasting Cougar basketball games, my HD antenna works great. And I get
BYU-TV in hotel rooms all around the country. Even more interesting fun will
begin when the WCC schools can't find enough tickets to satisfy the demand for
seats at their home basketball games against BYU. If it's really about money,
and it's always at least a little bit about money, the WCC will benefit and
perhaps some upgrades may occur there, as well.
I didn't realize that Doug Robinson and Rick Reilly were twins.There
were a lot smarter people than you Doug who carefully evaluated all of the pros
and cons of BYU's move to independence.If you took off your Utah
homer glasses once in awhile, Doug, and you'd see that there are many pros to
BYU going independent, which you obviously chose to leave out of your hatchet
157 comments and counting...wow. Last I checked the article about Jimmer
winning the Wooden award was less than 100...as a Y fan, I am saying maybe Doug
is more right than we care to admit...college football is the machine that
drives and steers the bus. When the WAC deal imploded, that bus was forced to
choose less desireable routes.
It is an over-simplification to say money was the reason for the switch to
independence. TV exposure and the departure of Utah were the main reasons for
the decision. Money has also been an issue in the MWC, but not as important to
BYU as TV.Prior to the MTN, BYU had its own local TV sports network for
football, which was shown locally on KSL and syndicated to other stations in the
west. Advertisers were plentiful, and the games always received great TV
ratings. BYU could broadcast its games locally and rebroadcast its games
worldwide over the BYUTV cable channel.MTN promised the MWC schools wide
exposure on the satellite and cable networks, but was unable to deliver once
Comcast began playing politics with the satellite companies. This left BYU
without a way to reach its worldwide audience. Once Utah left the conference,
there was absolutely no point in BYU remaining under the MTN's constraints.It is certainly true that the non-football sports at BYU will suffer initially
from this change. But that suffering is more a result of the MWC's crushing of
the WAC. The former WAC would have been a lateral move.
The author of this article obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. He's
so bent out of shape that BYU's other sports teams will be playing easy
competition while also complaining that BYU will no longer haver the easy 10
wins each season. Sounds to me like he just wants to complain for the sake of
writing an article (and a pathetic one at that).
Come on Doug. "During the winter indoor season, the track team
will compete in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation whatever that is... Although some of the sports actually might offer tougher competition
swimming, golf, volleyball the track team got hosed."Current
NATIONAL rankings of MPSF Men's Volleyball Teams1. USC (19-2)2. BYU
(20-7)3. UC Irvine (17-10) 4. Stanford (18-8) 5. Long Beach
State (13-13)6. Hawaii (15-12) 6. UC Santa Barbara (14-12) 8.
UCLA (16-12)11. UC San Diego (9-19) 13. Pepperdine (9-15)14.
Pacific (11-18) Yes, Doug, those are all MPSF teams from the
conference BYU's men's volleyball team has been playing in for over a decade.Current MPSF Indoor Track TeamsArizona Arizona State California Cal State Northridge Long Beach State Oregon StanfordUC Irvine UCLA Washington Washington StateOf course, including this easily researched information or talking about
the huge improvement in television coverage for BYU's minor sports on ESPN/BYUtv
versus the MTN would have undermined your sold out slam, so you chose to gloss
over those little details with your flippant "whatever that is"
This article is like wildfire for comments from the passion.On the
neutral side, BYU fans now know what it's like to see an article with negativity
towards their team on DNews (and not from Dick, that was pretty much
expected).There is alot of bickering!BYU fans if you are happy and
sure about your decision to go Independant with football and WCC in others and
somethin else for track, GOOD FOR YOU! Be happy and dont wig out when something
is said, after all- you guys are right, right? So why the need to constantly
reaffirm your position and stance towards the whole thing?Utah fans: Just
one comment for you guys: PAC-12.
Wow Doug, I hope you don't get OT Pay for reading all those comments. So, what
was your point - exposer? Well I think you just did it but Jimmer did it better
and more to come for FB, BB and many others. I will tell you when June 2011
come which I will post HAPPY NEW YEAR - bye bye old mwc and hello new
INDEPENDENT, WCC, WAC and who else? Yeah, I like mostly FB & BB.It is good to be a COUGARS!
Dave S's "no new non-Mormon viewers on BYU-TV" is utterly inaccurate.
I only have to find one new non-Mormon viewer to prove your point wrong. However
it might have been better to say that the vast majority of people watching
BYU-TV are most likely Mormon.On the other hand, I have several
non-LDS friends interested in the less religious aspects of BYU-TV
(performances, practical living, movies, series, etc.) Most of them are
religious and thus feel they don't need the religion but they know the message
will be life improving.One final thought. I am a firm believer that
the world needs BYU-TV and more like it to counter the baloney we are offered by
other commercial channels.
Sorry to burst some bubbles here regarding Utah not going to the PAC 12 if Texas
agrees to create the PAC 16 but here goes. Chip Brown of Austin, Texas did the
most difinitive reporting on this issue last summer and I still have his
articles. Texas A&M was never going to the PAC 16 and they made that clear.
They had and still have a standing invitation to join the SEC. There are many
reasons why they would want to affiliate with the SEC. So, with Texas A&M
out and never seriously in, the line up was and will be in the future when this
expansion is tried again is Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Colorado
and Utah. Of course Colorado and Utah are already in. The remaining four may
follow later. If Texas does not come or goes independent it will be Missouri.
The continued attempts to denigrate Utah's invite to the PAC 12 are shallow and
untrue expecially since Utah and Colorado were in the expansion discussion when
Tom Hanson was commissioner of the PAC 10 long before he retired and Larry Scott
Any plan that would keep Wyoming on BYU's schedule destroys the credibility of
that plan's proponent.
YesSir23"The MWC "WAS" a 3 or 4 bid league, now we
have to hope to knock off Gonzaga every year to get a bid."The
operative word: "WAS".With BYU moving to the WCC, the WCC
becomes a 2 or 3 bid conference and the MWC drops to a 2 or 3 bid conference
(the MWC may never get 4 bids again).It's not going to be an
either/or proposition for BYU and Gonzago; both teams will get bids, along with
a third team, like Saint Mary's, in many years.The minor
disadvantage of smaller arenas will pale in comparison to the huge advantage of
increased national television exposure.Adding BYU's national cachet
to that of Gonzaga's national cachet will give the WCC two nationally respected,
big name programs. After a year of Jimmermania, BYU already has the attention of
the national media. It will simply be focused on the WCC now, instead of the
Dave S | 12:53 p.m. April 13, 2011 extrapolates his own experience to people he
does not know. Is this ego or ignorance?
BYU will make enough money to finance any and all parts of its sports program.
None of the sports will be hurt by the move to football independence because
every other sport has something football does not; a national championship open
to all D-1 schools. Will football have a better shot at a BCS or NC bowl game?
Time will tell. One thing that will happen is that I, along with hundreds of
thousands of other BYU fans, will be able to watch all the games on HDTV.
Doug,I want to compliment you on this article. I can see where some
readers may take issue with some of your assessments, but on the whole I agree
with you. In particular (and I am probably in the minority on this, especially
among Ute fans), I agree that many of the arguments apply to the Utes. Most of
all, I agree that this is all about money (for both the U and the Y), and that
makes me sad. I am upset that the BCS situation has put schools into a
situation where they would prefer to play non-natural rivals from all over just
because of the conference's access to BCS bowls or because of some TV deal. I
am excited about the Pac12 and the opportunity it provides, but I will admit
that I like playing the teams that the U plays. I have enjoyed these rivalries
for years. I don't care about Oregon or Arizona or USC, etc. Again, I am in
the minority here, no doubt, but it is sad that money and the BCS have so
thoroughly messed with two of the best teams (formerly) in the MWC. "Money" is right.
And why "only now" is this article coming out? Where were you months
ago when the deal was made?You must be bored...oh, and
wrong... completely wrong. Get a new profession.
Dave S, I know for a fact that you're wrong, that in fact non-LDS people I know
do already tune into BYU TV to watch BYU sports. Many more will do so when live
football and basketball are regular features.
TCU is NOT a home game this year, I think it is in the Dallas Cowboys
stadium---so a home game for TCU.
People are upset at this article, not because the truth hurts, but because it is
filled with specualtion and a direct attempt to damage the reputation of BYU and
suggest foul play. Amazing that everyone has forgotten that about
the WAC chapter and how BYU and the WAC were betrayed by Fresno St. and Nevada.
If that original agreement had succeded, Robinson would need to be writing
something esle. It's poor journalism to take a sliver of the entire
experince and rant about a it as if it is the entire story.
All of you that claim non LDS viewers will tune in to BYU TV are sorely
mistaken. The only viewers you will gain are already LDS viewers. I have BYU
TV on my cable package and I didn't know I had it until about a week ago.The bottom line is nobody cares about BYU TV that is not already LDS!!!
They didnt post my comment so Im toning it down. I guess its ok for Doug to be
harsh (WCC facilities are the pits, BYU sold out for the money, arent exactly
flattering). Anyway, so much is wrong with this article Similar to Dougs
comment about indoor track (see my post on page 3), his comments about
basketball are to create controversy not to inform. With the exception of UNLV,
when the nation hears MWC teams they dont think basketball, when they hear
Gonzaga and Saint Marys they think basketball. Additional, while the WCC arenas
are small, most are high quality facilities and appropriately sized for the
schools student body. Why does BYU play volleyball in the Smith Fieldhouse and
not the Marriott Center? Because it is better to have a packed house then a half
empty arena (ask the UofU basketball team). By the way, AFA only seats 6,000,
TCU 7,200 and CSU 8,700. Dukes arena only seats 9,300, and as far as interested
BYU fans, there are more BYU alumni/fans in California, Oregon and Washington
than Wyoming, New Mexico and Colorado.
As a basketball fan, I'm not looking forward to this change. The MWC was a 3 or
4 bid league, now we have to hope to knock off Gonzaga every year to get a bid.
Plus, I loved the rivalries we had built with New Mexico and UNLV. We had played
a lot of those teams for decades and now have to find new rivals. Season tickets to watch WCC opponents or MWC? I'd still go with MWC.I agree that all other sports were sold out for football. Track, which has an
unbelievable tradition, really got the short end of the stick here IMO.
The WCC has a bigger TV Footprint in California than the PAC-12 does, thanks to
BYUtv, and their (BYU's) contract with ESPN to broadcast all WCC Basketball
games that aren't picked up by "The Network" as Dan Patrick calls it.
Anyone who thinks that St Mary's fans won't watch BYUtv because they aren't LDS
isn't thinking. I watch the Big 10 Network all the time, and I have no vested
interest in any of those teams. I think this is a great move for BYU. . . and it
may end up being beneficial for the WCC as well. I'm also glad to know that more
people in California will be able to watch BYU play basketball than will be able
to watch Utah, or UCLA, or USC, or Stanford, or any PAC team.
@Pac12 loves UYou are just mis-informed. Go back and read the
stories when this was coming down last summer. The prize was indeed the Texas
and Oklahoma schools. That is who Commisioner Scott was pushing for, big time
and with gusto!The Utah Colorado idea was definately the last option
scenario for them. As for Utah, it never happens if Scott succeeded in his
getting his first choices.Don't kid yourself, you're in, indeed, but
like the 3rd girl invited by the same guy to the prom....Well, you've got that
going for you..
@ Mormon Ute: sorry!@ NeilT: actually, for future consideration, the
MWC had one and the WCC had one (future) team. Two teams or sometimes three to
the Dance, the WCC should appreciate that. Something the MWC didn't. @ MESOUTE: do you suspect that somewhere this season, if BYU had games
broadcast over the Internet, that people would have clicked in just to see what
Jimmer was all about? Someone other than the LDS faithful? Or do you suppose
that a non-member who suddenly finds him/her self being recruited by BYU might
click in to watch a game when given the link?Those are two realistic
possibilities where greater exposure can occur because of Internet broadcasting.
Not as huge as going from maybe one national broadcast to seven or
eight, but still real and an improvement.
@BeWhyUteThe Pac-10 might well have remained as they were, at 10,
when the Big-12 thing blew up, they may have re-calibrated, and lived to fight
another day.The reason they did not is because Commisioner Scott,
jumped the gun, invited Colorado early, in order to take Baylor off the
table.Remember, they were still negotiationg with the Big 12 schools
when the Buffs were invited.Excluding Baylor, really was the kiss of
death for the merger, because there were too many State Legislators in Texas who
were insisting on Baylor being included in the merger.Remember,
these are State schools. They account to the State Legislature and Governor.
This is why BYU was wedged out of the original Big-12 mix. Gov. Richards said no
deal without Baylor, and BYU was out.The Liberal Presidents in the
Pac-10, who despise any Faith Based Institution, is what ultimately blew the
deal up. So, once again Ute fans, connect the dots, and realize without BYU
being Faith Based....The Pac 10.2 goes with the Texas schools and never calls U.
Once left with 11 teams, they could not back out of Colorado and
RBN:Doug exposed nothing that hasn't been talked about now for
months. This was in no sense a piece of innovative journalism or bringing new
information to light. In fact, his premise that if BYU and Utah had
stuck it out in the MWC that they eventually would have been admitted into the
BCS along with TCU and Boise is the best laugh I have had today. The thought
that Utah and TCU should wait around to make that gamble is hilarious. BYU
waiting around in a doomed conference and a brutal TV deal when ESPN was ready
to deal is also a laugher. Many, more superior, articles about the
pros for BYU's move have been written at the national level. Obviously, those
arguments were more persuasive to those who run the university. So,
who exactly are you trying to set free? You are quoting scripture for this
issue RBN? Please.
MESOUTE: Three points. 1.) I dont think BYU was only looking for an increase in
non-LDS exposure. BYU has an international fan base and many, not all, will
enjoy watching them on TV. 2.) BYUtv will increase non-LDS exposure because two
fan bases will be watching, BYU fans and the other teams fans. The other teams
fans equal an increase in non-LDS exposure. 3.) If a kid likes football and he
is mulling whether or not to go to BYU, I definitely think he will be watching.
Not quite buying your argument VegasCoug as far as the impact of exposure for
hoops in the WCC tournament. Remember, Montana, Just Weber, and Logan State all
have the same tournament exposure and it does not give them much of a leg up in
recruiting (which is what we are really talking about in terms of exposure in
athletics. Exposure for the Mormon Faith is quite distinct, although still tied
to the equation). Sure there are other variables at play, but you should include
those as well instead of just saying: BYU hoops are on ESPN>>>
therefore, kids will be impressed by that.
OJW: I love track and field and the athletes will miss competing for a
conference championship but in my opinion that is the only con. Now their meets
can be televised not only nationally but internationally. That is a huge pro
because T&F is more popular overseas. This could also bring more
international T&F athletes to BYU. Also, as a parent who has a child that
competes in T&F, I love going to watch my son compete but it can be
difficult. A lot of times he doesnt know which invitational he will participate
in until the week before, making travel plans very expensive for his mother and
me to attend. I will still plan on attending Regional and NCAA Championships
among other competitions but it would be nice to see him on TV a few times.
Mesoute, BYU TV will probably draw more non-LDS viewers than The Mtn once it
gets established. BYU TV is already included in most cable packages for free,
unlike The Mtn, which many folks who would like to see the games don't get, and
quite a few can't get. And it's available outside the US. Non-LDS fans of the
teams that play on BYU TV will surely tune in, and if BYU advertises the games
on ESPN, as I expect they will, they'll draw plenty of other viewers for big
games who would never have seen a game on The Mtn.It's not all about
the non-LDS viewers, though. BYU wants LDS viewers worldwide to be able to see
the games too, as it provides another way to bring members together, to focus on
Church-related stuff, and will help in recruiting far-flung LDS athletes.
I have to agree with some of Dougs comments but I admit, we have heard them all
before. I am glad BYU went independent and I am glad Utah has moved to the pac
12. For years in both football and basketball both schools continue to think
that they can beat the big boys in other conferences. Utah as gained some
respect by winning some BCS games in football. As for basketball, both schools
have gained respect, but just can't come away with the big NCAA title. Depending
on how both schools do in their own new conferences will be proof if the can
really compete with the big guys. Everybody can try to act knowledgeable and
everyone can dog on the other school for their choices, but we will all know how
it turns out very soon.
@ BeWhyUteLet me correct you on a few things, obviously you haven't
done your homework so you made assumptions.First: you said "No
the Pac 12 does not love U. U were leftovers. They loved Texas and the Big 12.
They were spurned and scrambled to find 2 teams to get them to a place where
they could have a conference championship in football. The Pac12 took what it
could get." The Pac 10 has been exploring expansion since Fall
2009, Utah and Colorado were the top candidates. The Texas plan was a last
minute minute option to grab large tv markets in Texas. To grab Texas, you need
A&M, Tech, OU, OSU. They said "No" So, no biggie! they went back
to their original candidates.Second: you said "The fact that U
aren't even sharing in the full money pool for several years tells the story
about how much they LOVE U".The reason the U won't make full
share for a few years is so they don't have to pay for its membership in the
Pac-12. the Y being excluded tells you how much they are loved
Amen Dutchman..I'm not so sure BYU leaves the Independence dynamic
for a Conference, once the ball gets rolling.If they did, it would
be with lots of caviats and exceptions..In fact, Independence is
spreading, if only in a hybrid form. Texas and Oklahoma already get
double the TV money vs the other Big12 schools. That is how they kept the
Conference together, otherwise, Utah is still in the MWC. Thank
Texas' love of the free market, Utes, otherwise, Pac's last choice never gets
down to U. ESPN has created the Longhorn Network, which nets Texas
an additional 16-18 million per year on top of their Conference deal.USC, Ohio St. Florida etc. will be next. Utah needs to worry that
the Flagship "Brand/Cache" schools of the Pac 10.2 may be wanting a
larger cut.Yes, dare we say, the Socialistic Conference model may be
modified, even in places like Berkely and Seattle.BYU and the Pac10
was never going to happen, Glenn Tuckett knew this in 1985.Those who
think otherwise, just don't understand the "Culture" of the Pac
10.2.Berkely, Palo Alto, Seattle. It's why Baylor was wedged out.
did you really just compare Wyoming basketball to Gonzaga and the WCC. Did you
watch any sports this year?
Dutchman: I could not agree with you more. Your comment reflects a line of
thinking that was prevalent in the national media last August, that the
relatively minor moves we saw last summer, including TCU's move to the Big East,
could be a prelude to some major conference shake-up's yet to come. It would
not surprise me at all to see some major changes, if not this summer, then over
the next two years, possibly including a move to independence by Texas or USC,
and the return of 16-team mega-conferences. We'll see.Going into
this environment, being in the PAC 12 is more stable than the Big 12, simply
from the perspective of the history of both conferences: the PAC12 has a long
history of a stable core of schools who see their affiliation as being much more
than just athletics, while the BIG 12 was coddled together after the collapse of
the SWC in the late 80's and could just as easily go the way of the old SWC.
BYU is smart to wait and ride this out for a few years.
Doug - I like your columns and your witty writing, but not this time. Is this a
late April Fools' joke? Did somebody from the Utes pay you to write this?
Wow, seldom do you see an article written that is so wrong on so many fronts!
A) What are you, a Communist? BYU was worth WAY more than they were
getting from the pathetic MWC TV contract. If your employer were paying you half
the prevailing wage, you know that you'd leave for greener pastures at the first
good opportunity. And your wife would knowingly--not sarcastically
say--"Yep, it's all about the money." B) Read this carefully;
THE MINOR SPORTS MAKE NO MONEY! They would not even exist were it not for the
football program. They should thank their stars every day that BYU even has a
football team. Now that BYU has gone independent, the minor sports budgets will
increase, not decrease. Everybody wins. C) The exact same argument you
made about football winning 9-10 games a year if they stayed put could be used
for the minor sports that are now going to a so-called lesser league. So if the
football team loses by having too hard of a schedule, the other teams will gain
by having an easier time. You can't have it both ways Doug.
Hey Neil T, the WCC had 2 teams in the sweet 16 last year (Gonzaga and St
Marys)The WCC is certainly a step down from the MWC in some ways
(small schools with small gyms) but it's a big step up in other ways; ESPN and
BYUTV exposure being paramount here. What's better exposure for BYU basketball,
playing in the Rebel Invitation on the Mtn or playing in the WCC tournament on
I know I'm a minority on this board, but I have to agree with Doug. I could
very well be wrong in my opinion, but I think BYU made big a mistake in leaving
the Mtn West Conference. They may well have made a good move in moving football
to Independent. Will BYU be able to draw crowds for many of the WCC opponents
in the Marriot Center? They will be able to draw for Gonzaga, but who else.
Some say that BYU you look for a big name conference to take them in. But who?
BYU doesn't play on Sunday and that probably eliminates them from any big name
conference. I don't think that the big conferences are going to stop playing
games on Sunday just to have BYU in the conference. The WAC and MTN WEST
conference did, but they needed the strength of BYU on there schedules, these
big name conferences don't need BYU. It will be interesting to see how this
whole move transpires.
Without the money they get from the new independent TV deals, Dave Rose would be
the new coach at Oklahoma.Robinson is wrong. There is good mixed
with the bad. Trust me, when Utah is getting creamed in every sport but
gymnastics, there will be a little "bad" being a part of the PAC 12.
Doug's premise is correct. Football may get to a better place because of
independence but the other sports do not appear to be headed to a better
place.We told Bronco at the New Mexico Bowl fireside that we will
miss the future firesides that won't occur in Albuquerque because of BYU's new
direction. He said, sympathetically, "It's for the greater good".The "Sold Out" angle in Doug's column is perhaps not a
productive viewpoint, though. Surely, all sports at BYU have been re-positioned.
It was a calculated, global decision. What remains to be seen is if it truly
works for the greater (global) good.
The truth shall set you free. But, sometimes the captives don't want to be
free. Doug, at least you tried. Good job exposing the cons of BYU going
independent in football.
antiBCS,Thanks for throwing all Ute fans into the same category.
The record will reflect that myself and several other Ute fans on these comment
boards have never claimed we will dominate the PAC-12. We have faith in our
teams that they will prove we belong at that level, but that in no way means
domination. So you are wrong in saying I am the pot calling the kettle black.
I have never boasted, but I have defended many attacks from Cougar fans who seek
to boost their team by putting mine down.At least I quoted the
comment I found to be arrogant and lacking in humility. So where are the quotes
you base your statement on?
Certainly some risk in going independent, but I think the perspective that it is
going to hurt the "lesser" sports is wrong. I talked to an assistant
coach of one of the lesser sports and asked what he thought about the change.
He was ecstatic about it because with BYUTV his team's games will now be seen
all over the world. That's a huge recruiting tool with parents ("you'll be
able to watch your daughter play"). He certainly wasn't complaining about
big bad football which, btw, funds his program....money, money, money...even the
lesser sports could use more of it.
@Pac 12 Loves U - No the Pac 12 does not love U. U were leftovers. They loved
Texas and the Big 12. They were spurned and scrambled to find 2 teams to get
them to a place where they could have a conference championship in football.
The Pac12 took what it could get. The fact that U aren't even sharing in the
full money pool for several years tells the story about how much they LOVE U.
The President's "sold out" their athletic programs when they signed
that bone-head mtn. TV contract.
@OJW, you point out some valid issues from an individual award and recognition
perspective, however, no one, well, almost no one in the television viewing
audience cares about track. The fact is that BYU's football and basketball teams
fund the minor (non revenue generating) sports. The move to independence only
serves to increase that funding ten-fold. The exposure on BYUtv will
have a larger impact to potential track stars all over the world. Case and
point, when was the last time anyone cared to watch a track meet on tv that had
BYU as a participant? Can't find them can we? Now, there may be a venue to
actually watch a track meet with BYU. Yes there is validity in not
winning an individual conference title, but I submit that the greater good may
ultimately be served. Staty tuned, it's going to be a groovy ride.
Agree. BYU joining the WCCC is a joke. I would rather play SDSU, UNLV or New
Mexico any day as opposed to Gonzaga. The MWC had two teams in the sweet
sixteen. How many from WCC?
PAC man,No jealousy from this Ute fan. I'm happy where we're going.
We're getting a much better deal than we had with better chances to prove
ourselves on a much bigger stage on a more regular basis. Big step up for the
U. I just find it funny how BYU fans have for months been putting down our good
fortune and touting their own. In fact many have been purposely inflating their
own situation. So now that a reporter has the guts to put the facts in writing
and it doesn't look as good as many BYU fans have been painting it they are all
over him. It's just funny. Good for a few laughs.As far as your
points go, yep, you've got us on national exposure. We don't have the fan base
you do. I've never argued that point. On the home and home games, I do believe
some of those deals are 2/3 away and only 1/3 in Provo.Both schools
will be better off and only time will tell which one rises to the top, if either
I am not quite buying the exposure argument that is so popular on this thread. I
said not completely. I do buy the fact that ESPN will pick up perhaps 5 games
and in that respect the exposure is increased. But BYUTV will not increase
exposure to non-LDS. LDS who enjoy BYU sports will benefit to be sure, but your
average kid mulling whether or not to go to BYU will not be seeing these games
on BYUTV. I guess it is a give and take and the take with ESPN grants enough
exposure to satisfy Tom Holmoe. Maybe I am wrong, but if I am I prefer a civil
argument in place of an attack on my inquiry. Fire away.
Doug, YOU don't even care about the minor sports. Softball? They're playing in
the WAC. If you are putting your entire argument on the shoulders of your
research, you have failed.
It must be a VERY slow news time. This whole argument was debated months ago and
Doug is only trying, rather pathetically, to stir up a ladybug nest of
This article belongs in the Op Ed section not the sports section. Doug, all
you've done here is offer your personal opinion on BYU's decision. Your
headline shouts "Sellout!" Yet you provide nothing outside of
"it's a sellout because I say so."Have you had
conversations with coaches and administrators in the BYU athletic department
within those other sports that brought you to this conclusion? If so, why didn't
you quote any sources? Even "anonymous sources" would have sufficed
in this case since public criticism from within at BYU is hard get I know.Time will tell whether your opinion is accurate, but I saw no other
solution for BYU athletics especially football and basketball. Money certainly
played a role in this decision but exposure for BYU and the LDS faith sit above
money on that list. BYU is not short of funds for its athletic programs and
never will be with or without conference affiliations.This is not
the end but a means to an end. I think you missed the point.
This article is based on an oppinion not fact. Speculative at best.
Great Artcle Doug! Finally!!! a Deseret News article that is not so
pro-byu and anti-Utah. There is no doubt that this move to Independence and WCC
will hurt their Athletic programs (especially basketball) Football might pull it
off! but there is no guarantee!What suprises me is how so many byu
bloggers on here are so ungrateful to the Mountain West! your comments like
"Wyoming, SDSU, and New Mexico are pulling us down". Rocky Long (SDSU
head coach) will not play byu in the near future because of the way byu up and
left the MWC. He said "they think they are to good for us" Now you
know why so many schools don't like byu! The Mountain West has been
a great conference for both byu and Utah. I hope the MWC moves forward and gets
stronger with Boise State leading the way.
Mormon Ute"Can we get a little humility out of the BYU
fans?"Pot calling the kettle black there Mormon Ute; Utah fans
have been beating their chests about their PAC 12 invite since June. To read
Utah fan comments, you'd think the Utes were going to dominate the PAC 12 from
the moment they stepped into the conference. A bunch of scrubs and JC transfers
in basketball is supposed to be good enough to be middle of the PAC next year,
and challenge for the conference championship in two years.The
jealousy of the folks on the hill is laughable.Why do you even care?
BYU's move to independence has absolutely NOTHING to do with Utah,
but every day Utah trolls spam BYU articles trying to convince themselves that
it's a bad move for BYU. If it really was so bad, you and Utah homers like Doug
Robinson, wouldn't be spending so much time trying to convince everyone of your
BYU hating fantasy.
Yes, the WCC move was such a slap in the face to the Coug Basketball program
that Dave Rose jumped at the chance to take that open head coach position with
the Utes...oh, wait - actually, he asked Oklahoma, "Hey! Where do I
sign?" Errr, that's not right...to Mormon Ute: you may be
right, BYU's program has fallen off a cliff before and it was a long way back -
but there's no reason to believe they won't continue to win 20+ games a year for
the forseeable future. And unlike Laramie, Ft. Collins or Colorado Springs, San
Diego, LA, the Bay Area and Portland all have 15k+ arenas available to move a
high-demand BYU game.
Track has been arguably the most consistent and highest achieving sport at BYU.
It also arguably has the greatest international reach with many athletes
competing from around the world and then returning home to serve.Track is the
most widely partipated and followed sport, world wide. For the outdoor teams to
have no conference affiliation is a shame. This means that for now, no track
athlete can become a conference champ. Invitationls only serve as warmups for
conference and national meets. BYU track athletes are now forced, along with
football, to place nationally or nothing. Men's track only has 12 scholarships.
Women's has more due to title IX. BYU track is built on blue collar athletes who
support themselves through school and sacrifice to represent their school and
church. No other BYUY sport can match their success. Now they are left to fend
for themselves. How many know that the Men's indoor team placed 3rd in the
nation this season? The news was overwhelmed by Jimmermania. The BYU track
program deserves better. It's a worldwide sport that admirably repepresents a
worldwide church. Football pays the bills, but track shouldn't get thrown under
@1A BB Fan...could you kindly point out how many Friday night games BYU will be
playing in next season? You are so uninformed it makes dave s, hedge and chris b
seem like anderson cooper.
Some have suggested that BYU will move into the BIG 12-2 when an invite comes.
I wouldn't be in too big a hurry if I were BYU. I call it the Poland syndrome.
It would be like moving your family to Warsaw, Poland just before before the
Germans attacked in September 1939. The BIG 12-2 is still ripe for attack by
both the PAC 12 and BIG 10+2 because the push to conferences with 16 teams is
not over evidenced by the TV negotiations with the PAC 12 that allow for future
conference expansion and the comments made by Jon Wilner that PAC 12 expansion
to the PAC 16 is not over. BYU could get into a situation where they join a
conference only to have it picked apart and they are left without a conference
again. Better to remain indy until the blitzkrieg is over or take the family to
Switzerland until the war ends.
Doug, BYU was already participating in the Mountain Pacific Sports
Federation... of which we had won three NCAA Division I national championships
in Mens Volleyball. So if you were wondering "whatever that is" you
have your answer.
Mormon Ute "I have to say the reaction from the Cougar faithful
to this article was sooooo predictable"Yes, you're quite the
soothsayer there MUte, considering this subject has been debated over and over
and over and over for the last 8 months.Utah fans are just jealous
that BYU is one of the few athletic programs in the country that has the
national cachet and resources to pull off being an independent.--Enough of a national reputation to sign an 8-year contract with ESPN--A state of the art HD television station that's already distributed on
the basic tier of cable programming to 60 million homes--A big
enough name to be able to schedule home-and-home games with teams like Notre
Dame, Texas, Georgia Tech, within weeks of declaring independence, and calls
from teams all over the country who are interested in scheduling BYU for future
games--Attractive enough to be invited to play in nationally
televised made for TV games against Oklahoma, TCU, and West VirginiaIndependence may not be the PAC 12, but it's certainly not the MWC and the MTN
Doug, As a local reporter you should be more informed. You must love going to
the MWC venues and seeing the same ole same ole. Look forward to to
possibilities of the new venture for BYU. You will get to go to new places and
see new things. BYU will make so much more money to help the other sports out
it isn't funny. Many more people world wide will be able to see BYU. I don't
see the other sports affiliation staying pat. I think in the future it will
change for the better. money may be a big part of the change, but in reality
Money makes the programs possibily. Also don't just assume playing better
competition will be more losses.
It's been ages since I have read an article with so many built-in
contradictions. One would think that BYU will never be able to produce an
all-american in T&F ever again...Hmmm, I thought it was about personal
accomplishments rather than competition against the nationally prominent
programs like Wyoming, Nevada and BSU. And frankly, I would rather attend a
Basketball game at 3,000 seat arena in Portland where the chances of being
drenched in brew are much less and the F-bomb rarely spewed than in some venues
of the MWC that happen to sit on a hill.
Rikitikitavi,Can we get a little humility out of the BYU fans?
"Some campuses in the WCC may just have to rent larger venues when BYU
comes to town to accommodate huge crowds of BYU fans in SoCal
especially."While this may happen on occaision, I doubt it will
become a regular occurance. Let's see what happens next season with the Jimmer
show moving on and BYU's offensive mastermind now at UNLV.I agree
BYU has a national following that Utah cannot match, but to suggest week in week
out you will overwhelm smaller gyms is over the top. When your team isn't
winning and Jimmer isn't lighting up the score board reality will set in and the
crowds will shrink. It has happened before. Then my Bishop will start getting
those letters from BYU athletics again offering $1 seats in the MC for youth
groups in an effor to fill the place.
Excellent article. I believe the best, most insightful article coming from this
writer. A novel thought to have an indepth, biting article against a BYU sports
decision by this newspaper. The obvious follow-up question is why it took so
long to write this article? The conf alignments were always none at the time of
the football independent announcement. I still like the decision overall for the
school. Yes, it's strictly football driven, but that's obviously where the money
in any sports program/department comes from. Any of the other sports (basketball
included) that generates any money is merely frosting on the cake. The potential
of what the Cougs can do as an independent, away from that Mickey Mouse TV
contract Mr. Thompson generated for the MWC, will never be seen if they stayed
in the MWC.
CG | 8:51 a.m. April 13, 2011 Orem, UTWhere did you come up
with the idea I was a Colorado State fan???Go back and re-read the
post a little more clearly!!! Geeesh you BYUfans really are sensitive!!
@Honor Code,Max was right!
Everything you said is true, Doug. Truth does hurt. BYU sold out all other
sports for the football program. And this ESPN tv deal isn't that great either.
Notice how all of their games are Friday night games. Not exactly the big-time
rating slot if you ask me. And the televised games are not even against high
profile competition--other than TCU.
Of course it's all about money and exposure. BYU going independent in football
Dave SThe truth does hurt as you'll see next September when the team
that supposedly got left in the dust beats up the team that still lives in the
shadow of their big brother.
Re: Dave S, Has nothing to do with the truth hurting. It has to do
with being sick and tired of inane commentary about BYU's decisions. Most of
this article is completely based on poorly-informed assumptions. The last
decade has shown us that BYU knows what direction they want to head in, and they
are doing a pretty good job of getting there. I'm sorry if it's not quite the
direction ute faithful would have them go, but it's not really up to you. The
endless stream of criticism is getting old.
BYU is not going back to the MTN and the MTN is not going to get better. As
teams establish themselves they will leave. What do you think will
happen to BSU when nobody can see them play. They will no longer be the anti BCS
darlings. TCU will rip up the Big East. BYU will be established as a smaller
version of ND. That has a nice ring to it, to be mentioned in the
same sentence with ND. Most of the WCC schools are Catholic. BYU will get
compared more and more to the Catholic schools and many of them have strong and
storied programs in various sports. The BYU lesser sports will
recruit better athletes because they will actually be televised nationally and
internationally. The accomplishments of the BYU lesser sports will actually get
some publicity outside of the Daily Universe.Go write an article on
how wonderful the Ute football and basketball teams are going to do in the PAC.
Utah will be better off financially in the PAC..Eventually. Otherwise they would
be better off in the MWC. They would have had more success with roughly the same
amout of exposure as a top dog in the MWC-vs-struggling to compete in the
PAC.Just my opinion and I hope I am wrong.
Yes, football was the driving force behind the move. And the motive behind that
was a mix of two objectives completely aligned: money and exposure. The mtn/MWC
gave BYU neither.But to focus on the puny basketball gymnasiums of
the WCC does nothing to strengthen Doug's argument...small crowds on the road is
not a bad thing for BYU basketball, especially when BYUtv will own the broadcast
rights to any of those games that aren't picked up by ESPN. Other than the
playoffs or a NY-BOS series, when was the last time you saw a major league
baseball game in front of a full house? Americans consume their sports events
remotely these days in front of their big screen HDTVs. And BYU's move to
football independence and WCC membership grants BYU all of the TV exposure (and
$$) it will ever need.Not as great as PAC 10.2 membership, but a
great consolation prize.
I am happy for Utah to have moved to the liberal conference now the PAC 12.
They should feel at home there. U of O and Cal Berkley are among the most
liberal schools on the planet. Utah's departure allowed BYU to slip out of the
window while it was still open. Thank-you to UofU. BYU will not miss out. Also,
BYU will be at home away from the venomous atmosphere found on certain of the
MWC campuses. Some rivalries had become extremely hate-ridden. To wit:UNLV,
SDSU, UofU,&Wyo. Personally I hope the (once) big 12 comes calling. Some
campuses in the WCC may just have to rent larger venues when BYU comes to town
to accommodate huge crowds of BYU fans in SoCal especially. There is already
talk of Portland U. moving the BYU home game to the Rose Garden. Simply put:
BYU carried the MWC conference on it's back for way too long leaving million$ on
the table and millions of viewers in the dark.
Rise and shout, the Cougars are out!Wow, Doug, you really know how
to get the Cougar fans riled up!I have to say the reaction from the
Cougar faithful to this article was sooooo predictable. Once they got over the
shock of what happened to their other sports programs in the wake of football
going independent, they have been working overtime to put a good face on the
situation. Now that someone has finally written an honest critique of what
happened, they are coming down on it like a ton of bricks.
I am a loyal BYU fan and agree "exposure" is paramount, but I hope to
see greater "exposure" in all BYU sports--not just football and
basketball. If that doesn't happen, I'd like to see all BYU teams in one strong
conference and not a proliferation of weak ones few people know about. For me,
the verdict is still out on this "fragmentation idea"--at least for
the minor sports.
When BYU fans nationwide can tune in to watch almost every BYU football and
basketball on ESPN/BYUtv, the question won't be "why did BYU leave the MWC
and the Mtn?", the question will be, "why didn't BYU do it
sooner?"BYUtv is already working on I-Phone apps so BYU fans
will even be able to catch the games on their electronic devices.
We seem to have forgotten that BYU originally had a deal with the WAC and
certain members of that conference did their best to leak that info and secure
for themselves a better financial boon. BYU and the WAC was betrayed by Nevada
and Fresno St. Robinsons spin is poor journalism at best because
he's clearly ommitted the "WAC" element. Where BYU is now was not
their first choice. Where they are at now is a result of unethical leadership.
Bluntly, BYU was stabbed in the back. To blame BYU for going
independent is hypocritcal when all teams are trying to one thing or the other
to better their financial situation. Are you going to tell me that Utah didn't
move to the PAC 10 for money and exposure?
Who woke you up, Rip Van Robinson? All of this was thoroughly hashed out last
fall, and you've added exactly nothing.In any case, you simply
ignore what doesn't fit your idea. BYU has said this is more about exposure
than money, and that fits the facts. This will allow more people to see BYU
sports, including basketball. That's good moneywise, but more to the point,
it's good for advancing BYU and its unique message. ESPN and BYU TV will
provide far greater exposure.Bad for football? Hardly. I'll miss
the old rivalries, but the football program will greatly benefit from the larger
stage.Bad for basketball? Sure, in terms of conference competition,
it is, but the basketball team will also benefit from the increased exposure,
and the WCC isn't so bad that a team can't excel on the national level from
inside it, as Gonzaga has shown for many years now. Recruiting from the area
covered by the conference will also be helped.For most of the other
sports, some lose and some gain, but none would thrive without the funds
provided by football and basketball, and they know it.
Wow Doug it looks like you stirred up a real hornets nest with this article.
The truth hurts I guess!!
Doug, you made your reputation writing humorous articles. You should stick to
that. Getting out from under the invisibility of The MTN network, and getting
the Men's basketball tourney off the floor of the T&M Center are two reasons
enough for moving to the WCC for basketball. I'm willing to concede that it
might be a small step down in competition, trading SDSU, UNLV and UNM for St.
Mary's and Gonzaga. But after attending the MWC b-ball games in Vegas last
month, I for one am glad that I won't ever be associating with "fans"
from the other schools in the MWC again. As for the size of the arena's that
BYU will play on while on the road, who cares? As long as they can still
accomadate 22000 at the MC, and if "all" their games are on some type
of TV, why do I care if an opponents home court only seats 4000? As for
football, in my opinion the Independent schedule is far better than the MWC
schedule. I think that Bronco and Tom will ensure that the schedule is
well-balanced after 2013 and beyond.
I am quite surprised that for as long as you have covered BTU sports that you
have no clue as to what the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation is. When I was
broadcasting BYU Mens Volleyball I say the MPSF founded with Pac 12, Big West,
and West Coast schools. It is a good conference and I believe the tracki teams
will thrive in that environment as the volleyball team has. And do not sell the
WCC short. With more quailty teams coming into the WCC the level of play will
get better, not that it already is with its strong teams in USD, ST Marys,
Gonzaga, and Santa Clara. Womens sports will thrive as well as the mens sports
and BTU will continue its winning ways in ALL sports.
I should also note that an article that states that BYU is at a disadvantage to
play the "Loyolas and the Gonzagas" is giving way too much credit to
the Wyomings and the New Mexicos and CSUs. Loyola, Gonzaga, Pepperdine, St
Marys, USD and the likes have all had national contenders in basketball, swim,
soccer, volleyball, etc. I guarantee you the BYU women's volleyball and soccer
teams are thrilled to be linked with these schools. This is a huge step up for
a majority of the sports and anyone that knows anything about those sports knows
that. Do not think these teams were sold out. These are big-time private
schools with lots of money and lots of prestige and incredible sports.
Nothing is forever. It's at least 50/50 that when the Mtn. TV deal is over, BYU
will leverage it's ESPN ties to return to the MWC.
Woman"No matter what anyone may say, we all know..."some "Utah fans" will always be obsessed with their big
brother in Provo.
Doug, You're making a big stink about nothing. Yes the WCC may be a step down
for the basketball teams. That point can be debated, but track and field?
Really? I can't think of a sport in which conference affiliation is less
meaningful unless it is cross country. Despite team scoring, track is an
individual sport, and individuals train to qualify for nationals. Conference
meets are little more than distractions in this regard. The track team doesn't
have a conference schedule, and they only compete exclusively against conference
teams in one meet. The rest of the year they are already essentially competing
as an independent. Please why don't you go write an equally ridiculous article
about how Utah's move to the PAC 12 is throwing all of their non-football sports
to the wolves.
Honor Code When has Colorado State ever been relevant in football or
basketball on a national level?While you're still making that
exciting drive over the pass to Laramie in the dead of winter or staying home to
watch the game on the MTN, BYU will be playing in Malibu or San Francisco or Los
Angeles, with the game televised nationally on ESPN/BYUtv.Rather
than being bitter, you should be thanking BYU for leaving. The Rams now have a
better chance of finishing in upper third of the MWC.
Where is Duckhunter and sammyg? This is an honest article about BYU sports.
They must be over posting comments on the Utah articles as they do every single
The track coaches don't feel they've been thrown under the bus. They know they
will now get more money trickling down to them. And they are the only BYU sport
that stepped up their competition by joining the Mountain Pacific Sports
Federation which consists of the top 8 Pac-10 teams. Perhaps a similar
arrangement for outdoor track is in the works.
Doug, 1. If you don't have money, you can't run a Ahtletic program! The
financial windfall and TV exposure will benefit the other sports in a big
way!2. The Independece thing is only for a few years until they get
invited to the Big 12.3. Football is King and basketball is all about
getting to the Tournament no matter what conference your in and the WCC has a
better history in the tourney than the MWC.4. Baseball just got a major
upgrade by going to the WCC!!5. As a fan, who wouldn't want the football
schedule that Tom is putting together? The MWC didn't have anything other than
Utah, TCU and Boise St. oh and by the way, BYU has scheduled all of them in the
future years!6. Now all the Y fans across the USA can finally see them
play! You wanted them to stay put with the MTN?7. I would rather see the Y
go 8-4 playing a better schedule than 11-1 playing in the new MWC.
You say BYU's sports other than football and basketball got sold out. What other
sports?Those are all sports that have INCREDIBLY limited viewers. It
really doesn't matter what league they are in. And yes, pretty much anyone would
let the other teams play in tiny leagues for the sake of the programs that make
all of the other sports financially possible. Just a ridiculous
article. You will get great readership though because all of the Utah fans will
jump right on it and say "finally someone sees what we have been
saying." Meanwhile, all of their claims have not panned out at all. BYU is
doing better now in recruiting than we were with the MWC (and Utah is with the
PAC12. Two quarterbacks that Utah absolutely pursued chose BYU over Utah and
Stanford last week). Also said nobody will play us. That isn't panning out
either, as you can tell by the football schedules we are putting together (even
TCU decided it would be worthwhile to play us because of the money we bring with
ratings and national viewers). So why exactly wouldn't we leave? Oh
yeah, we need to play in Laramie?
Doug forgot to mention why BYU went independent and why the U went into the
PAC-10. They were lied to by the MWC about their TV coverage and both programs
were losing millions in revenue because of it. When the Football programs lose
millions so do the other sports. As a general rule the only money making
programs for college sports are Football and Mens Basketball (very few Womens BB
programs make money)and those funds the rest of the sports. Now they have major
TV coverage and in many ways have much greater competition in other sports.
*won a game. Not one a game.
@Honor Code 6:47amThanks for the laugh."MWC will
prosper and continue to grow"
I totally agree. Look how the WCC has turned out for Gonzaga. In the past ten
years they haven't even gotten an invite to the tournament (all ten years they
went) and have never even one a game in the tournament because of their
affiliation with the WCC (5 trips to the Sweet Sixteen). Give me a break.Now check the cellar dwellers of the PAC12 (and the upper eschelon of
both the PAC12 and MWC). How have they faired? Gonzaga probably has an easier
time getting there then they do. BYU won't win the WCC tournament every year
(though they may) but I would say they have a better road to the tournament
every year because they will always have a shot at winning the WCC tournament.
And all that matter is that you get into the tournament (as UCONN just
displayed). Also, they will likely start getting better recruits mostly because
of their current performance and because of the exposure that BYU players will
get by playing all the time on ESPN. Your claim doesn't pan out.
Other than prestige the alternative offers nothing (we already got the money).
This article is a retread and not correct on many points.Track was
not sold out. It is unique because it doesn't matter what conference you're in.
The goal is to prepare for and place well in the National Meet. Being independent will allow BYU to compete in higher profile meets leading up
to the National Meet. So they may be in Georgia this spring against great
athletes instead of winning their 29th out of 30 MWC championships.Volleyball was already in another conference. And as Doug wrote, the WCC is
an upgrade for some sports.Overall I see BYU's move as a serious
upgrade for BYU fans
Good Commentary today Robinson! The LDS church should seriously
consider getting out of the business of Division 1 Intercollegiate athletics.
It's a bad fit. And they did make their decisions based on the money. See if
you can get Rondo to comment on this. His take is most interesting!
No coffee this morning Robinson? You may want to mention that this happened
because of a glaring snub by the PAC 10, misguided leadership in the MWC (thanks
Thompson) and one of the ugliest tv contracts ever. Can you really blame BYU? If
you do, you refuse to look at the whole picture. What's really
killing you is that BYU is still coming out looking like Roses! Big fat TV
contract with ESPN, Coach Rose stays, recruits coming in faster than you can
say, "Honor Code" and the list goes on.Are you sure Doug
that you're not trying to throw water on the fire right now. BYU is hot and your
utes are cold and crumbling. BYU didn't "do this" only
because of football, it's much more complex than that but just for fun, name a
school, Div. 1, that doesn't sell out for football?
Doug,Research?"During the winter indoor season, the
track team will compete in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation whatever that
is..."The fact that you don't even know what that MPSF is shows
just how little you know about BYU sports. The MPSF is without question the
premier men's volleyball conference in the country and BYU, which has won three
national championships, has played in the MPSF for over a decade.You
are right, BYU deserves better than the WCC, but that also goes for the MWC. The
main reason for the move to independence and the WCC wasn't money, it was
exposure. BYU has a nationwide fan base and the majority of BYU's fans outside
of Utah couldn't even watch BYU football and basketball because of the MTN.Case in point: Beginning of the basketball season, BYU was
playing Fresno State in the Marriott Center. Great storyline with Rose vs
Cleveland, but instead of televising the game or giving BYU the rights to
televise the game, the brainiacs at the MTN decided to show replays of a sports
statistics show and a MWC roundtable discussion.Bottom line:WCC + ESPN/BYUtv > MWC + the MTN
Please stop the comments about the Sunday play excuse. The Big 12 only plays on
Sunday in the pre-season. This is an easy fix for BYU. If the NBA can work at
no Sunday home games for the Jazz, with little exceptions, any conference can
work out no Sunday plays for the Y.
What a load of hooey.BYU welcomes the WCC. And meet our
Ambasssador of Public Relations...Doug Robinson. You can add up all
the Olympic Sports for an entire year Doug, and they will not equal one game at
LES or one or two games in the MC.BYU will play 32 games/regular
season in Basketball. Only "Eight" of those games will be in smaller
WCC gyms. So what? Utah can't beat WCC teams anyway.Eight games will be played in 23k MC. That leaves
"Sixteen" games to be scheduled with ESPN, all accross the land. And
finally, these teams will do home and home's again, with the clout of ESPN.And why do you assume that UNLV, and others won't hook up with BYU
again? They will.And is playing Eight games a year in 3-6k gymns
worse than playing with 1500 at AF, 4k at Utah, or 4k at Wyo, etc.It
is assured now, that BYU improves their schedule and National Exposure.This is a very ill informed article. It's ok Doug, it will be alright.Gonzaga was on ESPN 16 times last year. Who's cares about gym size.
Doug, you indicate that BYUs indoor track team will compete in the Mountain
Pacific Sports Federation and then sarcastically comment whatever that is. Did
you take the time to find out what it is? If so, why didnt you let your readers
know? If not, why not? Is it because such information would not help in
creating controversy that you so obviously were trying to create? Well, here is
the information you left out. The teams that are a member of the indoor track
Mountain Pacific Sports Federation are, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Cal State
Northridge, Long Beach State, Oregon, Stanford, UC Irvine, UCLA, Washington, and
Washington State. I think thats a pretty impressive collection of teams to
compete against, actually more impressive than the MWC.
It would have been ludicrous for Utah to not take the invitation. The Utes
weren't on the Pac-10's first-tier invite list, and when Texas declined the
Pac-10 overtures, Utah had to accept the offer. It would have been fiscally
crazy for the school not to move to the Pac-12 and instead remain
"patient" in the MWC with the hopes of future riches/notoriety. Bird
in the hand. . . And, yes, of course, it's about the money.
Wow, my first comment is censored simply because I call the piece a pathetic old
argument that the trolls will salivate over for increased 'click' rate.Did I miss anything that hasn't already been covered?I'm happy for
independence over the alternative of staying in the MWC. Money is not the main
issue, exposure is. BYU fans will be very happy to watch their team. The WCC
will benefit from BYU involvement as will the other sports affiliations.It will only get better as things evolve.
I for one, like the move and see it most likely as a stepping stone to a bigger
conference or some other sort of alignment. Either way, we are better off. Right
now, we get to see the red rocks and the blue soxs, so I look forward to not
having to go into sports bars to watch BYU football. Of course this
years aways schedule is better than the home schedule and three of them are
close. Go Cougs, beat UT, Ole Miss and TCU. Remember the OU game and Cowboys
Stadium, we can do it again.Do you really believe that Utah or
Wyoming are better basketball rivals than Gonzaga or St. Mary's. I look forward
to the new faces and competition. I would rather travel to Seattle or San Diego
than to Ft Colins or Laramie.
Alright, Doug, two admissions that are not pretty, but here they are:1) When my little brothers to the north say "the campus is our
world," they are right to this extent: I am interested in BYU. Period.
Yes, playing rivals is fun, playing bigger schools is more fun, but watching BYU
on TV is the most fun of all. More BYU, that's what I want. That's what I got.
2) As far as conference attractiveness is concerned, I still think
Utah was a make-up call for the PAC, but I am really happy for them, honest! To
paraphrase, "Just in, baby, just in!" And it wasn't going to happen
for BYU. I think going independent is a way to tie a
several-several-million-dollar pork chop to our ankle so at least the dog will
play with us. I do honestly believe that at some point in the future, a major
conference will condescend to playing with us because we will be able to bring
so much money to the table.And having said that, it works for me.
Cherrycoug | 6:46 a.m. April 13, 2011 Kearns, UT"CSU,
Wyoming, Colorado State" Guess you never took time to see who
was actually in the MWC??? Couldn't expect a better post than from a
BYU fan!!! LOL
Why am I supposed to care about the size of the arenas I don't patronize? Did
the Marriott Center somehow lose 17,000 seats because of the move to the WCC?
To 95% of BYU basketball fans, there will be zero perceptible change, and the
game is about the fans, not the players or the coaches. They'll do what they're
paid to do, regardless of venue.
Doug, you missed the point badly.Independence isn't about money.
It's about exposure. The MWC and the MTN TV deal was a trainwreck. Even the
BYU-hating Utah fan would admit, the exposure was terrible with the Mtn. With independence in football, which is clearly BYU's top sport, BYU
gains exposure and can further the mission of the church.With that
said, there is also the possibility of a future Big 12 affiliation that is known
and understood by the BYU administration. When and if that time comes, they
will be able to assess the success of the independent/WCC affiliation, and
decide if that's a better fit or not. And if so, that'd make the WCC
affiliation only temporary and a means to accomplish a better situation.Come on Doug...this is obvious and has been pointed out thousands of
times now this last year.
You're partially right.Much of the motivation WAS about money, &
yes, some of the other sports - men's basketball - are going to be worse off
than now. But without football $, 'minor sports' simply don't exist at BYU.
The LDS Church doesn't fund BYU's athletic programs from general church tithing
funds. Athletics are entirely self-funded, mainly from football and donors who
care about football. The MWC's money situation was pathetic. BYU
will make 10+ times as much money from their TV money as an independent, as with
the MWC. Once Utah left, there was absolutely no reason for BYU to stay.As for basketball - BYU tried to improve it's basketball situation by
leaving. They wanted the WAC and wanted some MWC teams to join them. That
league may have surpassed the current MWC. But that deal fell through and they
got the WCC.As BYU said, the other big driver is exposure. ALL BYU
football games will be available - somehow - nationally. The same likely
applies for basketball.And then there's the Big XII. They need two
more teams. BYU is ready to move if/when the opportunity arises.
The BCS will never accept a non-BCS conference...period.
BYU HAD to leave the MWC as fast as possible. If Football had stayed, then in
their best years they would have been playing for a chance to play in the MWC
top bowl, Vegas, against the #5 PAC-12, probably Utah if Utah chokes.
BYU will only have to endure small arenas 8 times each year. Even so, I don't
know how many times it has to be said but this move has everything to do with
getting exposure for all sports and especially football and to a lesser extent,
basketball and that has been accomplished.
Re: Louisiana CougarYou might want to join the rest of us in this
century. BYU hasn't had men's gymnastic or wrestling teams in over a decade.
It looks like you have a hard time with change. It's ok ... things will work
out just fine.
Did anybody else click on this link thinking it was going to be about BYU
football selling out its season tickets?
Doug, you've lost all credibility when you say Utah would have been better off
passing on the PAC12. There is absolutely no way the MWC, even with Boise, is
better than the PAC. You are dead wrong.But you are correct that byu sold
out all sports for football independence. They are starting to find out how
difficult it will be to have a viable schedule.
Wow, add one more person to my ignore articles list. What these
"locals" need to understand is this parable:If your wife
is held hostage by an evil drug lord, and to free her all you have to do is
remove your kids from public school and place them in a private school. You
freakin' do it.That makes as much as sense as this article. I too
spent little time in thinking of the parable (strange parallel?).
FYI Dougy boy, the TCU game is not a home game. Don't get technical on me either
about it being at a neutral site. It's in Texas.
Sticking with the status-quo was the best option? Give me a break. Being in a
conference with other private owned, faith based institutions makes sense to
me.....plus I won't miss the MWC or worse...the Mtn. Network.
BYUIDAHO could bring Intercollegiate athletics back and play in the Hart Gym.
That would be comical if BYU Provo came to town as the center does not have
seats around its basketball courts. Could bring portable ones in. But seat as
many people as other wcc opponents and faith based school.Thing is
no one watches sports besides football and basketball. Gonzoga will be a good
rivalry too. No all conference players or something to compete for will hurt.
But all in all it is a good thing I think.
This isn't BYU's fault. It is Utah's fault in the persuit of the allmighty
I've read in the past that BYU expects the athletic department to be
self-sufficient so that tithing doesn't pay for the athletic department. So
since football is the sport that brings in the revenue, it makes sense that the
other sports would need to cater to the football team. Another alternative,
which I wouldn't prefer but I think many respectable people would, is that BYU
takes the BYU-Idaho approach to intercollegiate sports.
Let us be clear, and I promise to uphold my earlier pledge to be civil to my BYU
counterparts. Utah and BYU have carried the WAC/MWC and all of its bottom
dwellers for decades, whether that is in football or basketball (intermittently
in both from the two schools). The best scenario would have been for the two
schools to go together to the PAC or whichever conference together, but that did
not happen. I don't fault BYU for bolting and it is in their best interests
dollar-wise (they will get more from ESPN and independence). That being said, I
do agree with the main core of the argument that BYU did not have basketball's
best interests in mind when it made this decision, but at the end of the day it
is football driving the bus, wherever you go. Even at "basketball
schools" such as Kentucky, UNC, Syracuse, etc., the conference money is
driven by the pigskin and thus it is easy to see why BYU would take their
opportunity to cash in while we have a break in conference realignment crises
and say goodbye to the UNMs and the SDSUs of the MWC.
As a huge BYU fan, Doug does make some sense. Utah went to the Pac-10 for the
money. TCU went to theBig East for the money. Unfortunately, because of BYU's
religious affiliation (and lack of willing to play on Sundays) they were not
invited to other major conferences and thus the only way to keep up with the
Jones' financially, was to go independent.Money does drive college
sports and BYU made the best decision based on the landscape at the time (yes,
if Utah had not gone, BYU would have remained in the MWC........it's not a
coincidence that Utah leaving precipitated BYU's move).Football is
the cash cow in college athletics. Look what the Big12 was willing to do with
Kansas......leave them behind even though they have one of the top basketball
programs in the nation. That's reality and Doug was spot on in a number of
It's too easy to simplify the decision down to just money. Although I'm sure
that had a major influence. There were many other serious issues, issues with
the MWC, with The Mountain network, and the relationships with the other
schools. Consider their reaction, like TCU's, to our leaving the conference.
It's been far from classy and yet given the same opportunities, they would have
jumped themselves. Or look at the abuse the BYU teams get for being from a
church school. Just thinking about what Jimmer endured at SDS was enough to
make me hope we never play there again. It will be interesting to see how these
new schools react to us and how long the welcome will be. At least in many of
the other major conferences, there is a respect and support for each other. I
say let's give it a chance. Hind sight is easy.
Was this article an attempt to try to get some other conference to notice and
salivate? If BYU was such a catch, all the big leagues would have made the
invitation already. It will be fun watching the bullies from Provo
beat up on Idaho, Idaho State, new Mexico State, Utah State, north Dakota, etc.
Can't wait to get my popcorn and licorice and cotton candy with members of my
ward Wait, I'll be watching UCLA, Arizona State, etc.
Sour grapes. I am disppointed to see this coming from a writer who should
understand college athletics and the importance of revenue in running a program.
Yes, you are right, in spite of your complaining, this is money driven. 1.5
mil vs. say 12 - 14 mil per year. And TV exposure for its programs. Yes they
could have stayed with the MWC/Mountain network but they did what they had
to.Because of religious beliefs, they will never be in a conference
that uses Sunday as an athletic day. We see that more clearly now as the PAC-10
is going to Sunday play more than ever. The Big12 already is.The
basketball program will be ok. I would much rather go to Pepperdine for a
January game than Laramie. Every game will be on TV. A great recruiting tool.
They will only play 8 WCC road games. Two will be huge regardless of the area.
In spite of those games, the program will do just fine.Utah and BYU
was right in dumping the 1.5 mil league and seeking a better situation for their
athletic well-being. They were right last summer and they are today.
I trust BYU's board of trustees and the administration at BYU.I think that
many times they know more than we do.For me, living in the Seattle
area going independent means that I can watch all the BYU home games on BYU TV
(live streaming on the web). I have been able to watch exactly ZERO BYU games
for the last 20 years.It's an all or nothing situation. I either
get to watch all the games or nothin. I'll take the ALL thank you very much.
Thanks Doug!!! I'm drooling over the fact that at the end of football season
next year when BYU is not worthy of a bowl game, I can smile and nod my head and
say "Told you so"!!!As for the mens basketball, you'll
never really hear much about mens basketball until around the middle of March
and that's if BYU is capable of getting into the NCAA
Tournament..........otherwise you won't hear a thing!!Someone posted
on here today that it's only a matter of time before the Big 12 come
calling........sorry BYU will never get in the Big 12 for the simple reason they
don't play on Sundays!!In the mean time the MWC will prosper and
continue to grow and BYU will be on the outside looking in. As most schools in
the MWC would say "GOOD RIDDANCE"!
Doug, Your premise could not be more flawed with regards to the motivation for
independence. This is about exposure for BYU and money is a benefit but not the
main motivation. Before the mountain, BYU was on ESPN 2-3 times a
year and was a nationally recognized brand. Now, whenever BYU is talked about,
it is often brought up that it is impossible to find their games. Many people
who wanted to watch Jimmer and the cougars could not because they couldn't find
the games. Also, does it matter the size of the gym that the other
schools basketball teams play in? Wyoming, CSU, air force, TCU, and even utah
have stadiums that seat more than WCC schools but that doesn't matter when no
one supports those teams. When you watch the games all you see is a sea of empty
seats. i would rather play in smaller arenas with fans than in larger empty
arenas. Finally, our "Rivalries" with CSU, Wyoming,
Colorado State, are not worth the grief and hatred of their fan bases. I would
rather be with fans that appreciate what BYU can do for them rather than hear
bigoted sterotypes. Try Again Doug!
Doug, I have been a Cougar fan longer than you have . . . and I agree with
you!The WCC has very little appeal to me. I have supported ALL of
the Cougars teams for four decades. I wrote sports for the BYU Mens Gymnastics
team back in 1970 as a BYU student. I went to wrestling matches when Mike Young
and Mac Motokawa were conference champions. I followed the Golf Team around the
Riverside Country Club when they played Arizona State and USC in dual meets.BYU has become BUY.I miss the MWC competition already!!!
Heck, I even miss the WAC games when UTEP was a huge opponent in hoops.BYU has moved on financially. Maybe there are some advantages. Clearly,
money is a big factor. Many Cougar fans hope BYU will affiliate with a
conference ASAP. For now, however, I think you hit the nail on the head.
Doug must already have withdrawl symptoms thinking about no more cheerful
welcomes for BYU at Laramie, and the delightful weather there.Lifelong Republican is partly correct. Exposure is the key characteristic of
this move. Money helps because it greases all the wheels of commerce including
paying for those sports programs that bring in negative cash flow.I've seen no entity that watches its finances better than the LDS Church,
unless it's my wife.Chill out, Doug. Call me if you need some ideas
for a column in the future. My ideas might not be better, but certainly I can
match this one.
I can assure you that the people criticizing this article really don't know much
about the big picture of college athletics. I argued all along that maybe
football might come out ahead, only time will tell, but it was about money only.
The rest of the athletic program suffers enormously, particularly the minor
sports. Is college about ESPN money, or is it about the students? If it about
the money, then pay the athletes once and for all and stop the amateur status
charade, especially on merchandising. I seriously doubt this was thought
through very well except for football.
Doug wrote, "All of these teams combined could have presented a lineup that
was formidable enough to win acceptance as a BCS conference."There
isn't a shred of bankable evidence that the MWC would have ever been let into
the BCS. Quite the contrary. The only time the MWC teams got to peek inside
the door was out of grudging politeness. Exhibit 1 -- the ridiculous and
condescending pairings that TCU and BSU received from the elitist BCS. Exhibit
2 -- the insulting smugness of Utah native and Ohio State president Gee. And
many more.Utah and BYU bailed because the future in the MWC was clear and
BYU is BYU it doesn't matter what conference they are in. People either care
for the place or care less about the place. Their exposure comes about by way
of their unique knack of being loved or hated. I submit it doesn't matter one
whit what conference they are in -- They WILL be noticed. Go Utes.
OK, I won't be as hard on Doug as all the rest of you are. I think
he makes some valid points. Stepping into Independence is an unknown realm and,
in a way, a leap of faith. First, it won't be easy to schedule big name
teams at home. Looking at the future schedule, teams like TX and ND want to play
a 2 and 1 format rather than 1 and 1. Even with ESPN's help it may be difficult
to schedule. I hope I'm wrong. Second, it's not cool for our Bball
team to play in gyms that hold 4,000. Maybe this will be the impetus to get some
of them to expand, or maybe we can coax them into moving the games to a bigger
venue. All that said bowl wins, NCAA tournament wins, individual
NCAA champions in track and cross country are all still available and matter
more to fans than conference championships. Perhaps not having goals
of conference championships for some teams and athletes may actually elevate
their goals and result in more success.
Doug,I actually agree with most of your points - it looks like we
are in the minority in our views on this one. I especially lament the mass
exodus of the MWC at the time when it was finally getting recognition. With the
addition of the teams you mentioned along with Utah, TCU and BYU - wow what a
conference that would have been. But one can only guess on what might have
been... I predict 4 to 5 years down the road BYU will try and get accepted into
a major conference - if not sooner.
I'm just glad, being on the East Coast, that I will actually be able to watch
BYU football! I've missed it so... I feel bad for the other sports if things
don't work out, but hopefully they will. Gonzaga will be a great match up for
Lets see....would I rather watch BYU play basketball on HD TV in the small gyms
of the WCC or listen to them on the radio like I had to a lot of times this
season.....? Exposure nationwide is great, but exposure in my living room is
much more important to me.
What a member of the Salt Lake press takes a simple, but honest look behind the
curtain in Provo? "It's impossible!!!"Actually thanks
Doug, no one needs a hatchet job on BYU's administrators and their decisions
regarding independence, but after 8 months of the spinning loom that is Utah
sports "journalism" any voice of reason is going to get accused of
being a hatchet job.
Doug - why did you omit mentioning the chess and debate teams and their futures?
Doug!This is a terribly one-dimensional argument. For one thing,
it's common knowledge that entire athletic department rides on the
football/basketball bus. BYU's bus just got a lot bigger, even if the seats are
less comfortable. Secondly, the ones ultimately responsible for this
major transformation are the fans and the media. It's our dollars that feed the
department, and as consumers, we have our preference of what sports we would
like to see the most, namely football and basketball. If swimming and track and
tennis and golf and volleyball had the same pull among the masses that football
has, then there would never have been a need to go independent in the first
place.Finally, Olympic sports participants still compete on
scholarship, and not necessarily to be seen by huge crowds. Where they compete
is less important than being able to compete at all. I don't think they care so
much about exposure, just about being able to compete and go to school.Sorry, it's a flimsy argument in a slow sports season.
Sorry but the mormon church already has plenty of money. Money
might be a big factor for a school like Utah but it really isn't an issue for
BYU.It is all about exposure.I guess you'll get plenty
of posts explaining that to you so I guess your article served its purpose.
Horrific article.Let's see. Where to start. How about the other
sports?Women's soccer. The only fear BYU has in Women's soccer, is,
can they step up to the WCC level. BYU is Queen of Women's soccer in the MWC.
The WCC has won 3 NC's in the last decade. Baseball. Pepperdine won
the NC in the 1990's. The WCC is annually a 2 or 3 bid league. The MWC has only
gotten more than 1 once. Track and Field. In Indoor track, BYU will
compete in the MPSF, along with 4 Pac-10 schools. That's better than the
punching bags the MWC offers up for the Cougars. In Outdoor T&F, BYU will be
Independent. Not sure if you are familiar there Doug, but there are a MILLION
invites in T&F. Sleep-walking through conference championship weekend did
NOTHING for BYU each year. Independence is better than the MWC in T&F. Basketball. With BYU, the WCC has a better RPI nearly every year over
the last decade. The WCC+BYU=21 NCAA wins since 1999. The new MWC=9. Women's BB, Gonzaga went to the elite 8.
Nope - So very wrong. First: Sick and tired of holding up the
bitter and vile fans of the SDSU and WYO. The truth is they have held us down
for years. The MWC is way over rated by us and those in it. Better to get away
from those angry people who need us way more than we need themSecond: It will be fun to have a new set of schools to play against - with a
more mature fan base. Third: It does bring track down, but really
football v track - football is king and more people watch one game of FB than
ten years worth of track. Fourth: The move will make us a much
better football team which in turn will bolster the whole schools reputation -
rising tide floats all ships.Finally - How long before the Big 12
comes a calling - this is a temporary state of affairs. I for one
love the new face of BYU. Independent and loving it - sometimes a divorce
actually bring out the best in someone - especially when the old spouse was
really lame. Bye MWC - I will only miss Air Force and TCU.
This article is seven months too late, and I've heard these same, tired
arguments seven thousand times.
I think you are vastly overrating the appeal to the MWC schools. Gonzaga has a
much better national presence in basketball than any MWC school. Playing two
games a year against Gonzaga will be more noticeable around the nation than the
entire MWC conference schedule has been, and more people will watch them
nationally than all of BYU's "the mountain" games combined.Nobody, outside of a few mountain west basketball nuts, gives any respect to
New Mexico, or Colorado State, or Wyoming in any sport. New Mexico has a great
basketball program, and "The Pit" is a tough place to play, but few
outside of New Mexico really thinks of them as distinguishable from New Mexico
State.As for the minor sports.... yawn...
@ the SNUTE trolls like WCCBYU was planning on independence and
spending on infrastructure to make independence happen for years before Utah
lucked into being the last option after CO for PAC expansion. The
Utes leaving for the PAC may have sped up the plan but it certainly did not
create the plan. The plan was being put in place for years. USC
management is derelict for not going independent. They could generate up to $100
mill a year on their own. UCLA and CAL could do much better than sharing with
WSU and Utah. Don't be surprised if more big time programs decide dragging a
conference around is foolish.
Doug,May I take the liberty of quoting Jessie J when I say that in two
years the cougars will be singing "look who's laughing now" If the U
and the Y would have sat around and waited for the BCS to acknowledge the MWC
and the man behind the curtain (Craig T) both teams would have made a whopping
one million dollars next year and 25% of the country could have seen their
games. As far as selling out the other sports, I will bet that attendance at any
home events will not suffer next season. (well, without Jimmer bball would have
dropped no matter whom they played). Please Doug, how about doing us a favor and
writing about how the U/Y men's baseball teams are doing, wait, no one would
read that article, and they still play in the MWC.
anyone with a brain, knows this is only till the Big XII comes calling.
Finally someone is honest about BYUs move. It may work out in Football,
relative to where they are now, but they will not come close to Utah's entry
into the PAC. Basketball will now have to win the conference tourney to get an
invite, see St. Mary's. Short term gain, long term loss for BYU.
Lame article. Doug we've heard this a thousand times before. Either give us
something new or move on. Nobody viewing your articles anymore? Need to stir
Sorry, I'm not ready to sell my Cougar stock. I still think 9-10 wins per
football season is possible and an occasional undefeated season can happen. With
the strength of schedule they are creating and the actual ability for people
around the country to watch them, they may yet recreate a 1984 scenario. Even if
they don't, I love how BYU sports in general is reflecting well on the school
and the Church. I think they have every possibility of being in the NCAA
basketball tourney on a regular basis and of being ranked high enough to return
to the 16, 8 or even better final teams. I don't know yet if the glass is half
empty or half full, but I like that, instead of having a 20 ounce glass (MWC),
we can choose our own glass and fill it as full as we want. Half of a 64 ounce
cup is still more than half a 20 ouncer.
Hey Doug. You are foolish!!
Blah Blah Nonsense. Nobody watched BYU play the other sports because they could
never find them on TV. BYU has moved beyond the little, sparse
Intermountain region. It is all about coverage. BYU basketball may
be better than ever because they can now recruit the best players in the church
from all over the world. A lot of talent played close to home (NOT UTAH) because
of better coverage. AND they will get some great non members because of the
national and international coverage. The MTN was a ball and chain
that held BYU down. Sorry to burst the bubble of all the Intermountain Homers
but BYU is now national. Losing WY and the rest of the MTN is big
step forward and not to be lamented. If you have to have a
conference the WCC is good enough. What counts in most of the minor sports is
being able to compete nationally. Track, basketball, baseball and volleyball
benefit greatly from the exposure. There is no injustice at all to
the minor sports. They now have a much bigger stage and people will actually
watch them internationally. It will pay off big time in better
players and scheduling.
You start the article by quoting Jessie-J? that says it all right now
No matter what anyone may say, we all know BYU went independent because Utah
joined the Pac-12.
Ah, Doug, what a comfort that you've been wrong before. GO