I would like to point out that LDS Employment services is open to all people
without regard to religious affiliation. When I went to their employment
workshop one time most of the people in the workshops were of other faiths.
To "LDS Liberal | 6:05 p.m." the welfare system is not socialism. You
obviously don't understand what socialism is.For the Church welfare
system to be socialism, first, it would have to be owned by the government.
Second, it would have to be compulsory. Third, it would not require that you
work for what you receive.As President Benson said "Another
notable counterfeit system to the Lord's plan is collectivized socialism.
Socialism derives its philosophy from the founders of communism, Marx and
Engels....Today Congress is doing what Madison warned about. Many are now
advocating that which has become a general practice since the early 1930s: a
redistribution of wealth through the federal tax system. That, by definition, is
socialism!"You can't tell me that socialism is good, knowing
that Prophets since Joseph Smith have denounced it.
Since welfare is being spoken of - In New Hampshire if you are single with no
children and lose your job you can get food stamps for only three months unless
you are receiving unemployment benefits which you are probably at lease looking
into at least 5 places that might be hiring. I qualified for food stamps while
working(didn't ask for them) but not while unemployed and had no money coming
in. I have only had to use the church welfare a couple of times. I
like the idea of it being availible if we need to use it. Recently one of my
husband's care providers told us because of our low income we should ask the
church for help. I guess we are just proud and are smart enough to know how to
make do with what we have or just plain do without.
re:ConsideringWhat do you know about the functioning of the U.S. welfare
system? What were the components of the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work
Opportunity Reconciliation Act? Most of the welfare system consists of Medicare
and Social Security. Are you advocating the end of these programs? Is your
family prepared to take care of the elderly in your home or financially support
their care? (note: nursing homes cost approx $6000/mon). What about those in
your ward who, through no fault of their own, lost their jobs? Are the ward
members equipped to pay mortgages/rent/utilities/gas etc. while the member
searches for a job? The bottom line is, as I've seen in every ward
I've ever lived in, there is a small handful of people who contribute the bulk
of the monetary and administrative needs of the ward. It takes a
"village" ie govt. and charitable contributions/programs to assist the
needy. I would note from Dallin Oaks talk that agency cannot be
taken away. It is a condition of life on earth. Agency, freedom and choice are
"Welfare - that evil Socialist ideology where the haves give to the have
nots.Re-distribution of wealth, etc., etc. etc. ... [sarcasm,
off]"How ironic that in matters of public morality, mores, and
culture, "liberal" will remember the importance of "free
agency" even as she conveniently forgets that important principle in
matters of charity.Just because I am opposed to government doing
something, does not mean I am opposed to the thing being done.I very
carefully censor what movies, tv shows, magazines, books, and music are allowed
into my home. But, excepting some basic decency standards for over-the-air
broadcasts, I am very leery of government presuming to censor for me.I donate time, money, and talents of my own free will to not only the LDS
Church run welfare and humanitarian efforts and programs, but also to effective
non-LDS programs.I object most strenuously to having government
reduce my ability to do so by forcefully taking my income (and thus time) to
fund its poorly run, often destructive programs that foster dependence on the
dole in too many case.And I highly suggest Elder Oaks,
"Weightier Matters" talk, Liahona, March 2000 on "agency".
While investigating welfare reform as President, Bill Clinton visited LDS church
officials and left extremely impressed with what he saw.
I participate in helping with the church welfare system because it is a
wonderful and inspired program. Not becasue it is a life long, failed system
forced on me by the government. That is the difference between socialism and
caring for the poor and needy.
I think we can all agree that it is more important to teach a man to fish (
while providing him a fish while he learns to fish) than to just keep giving him
free fish everyday. Is that a fair statement?
Thank you, Wastintime, for pointing out the truth in the "socialist welfare
system".Brave Sir Robin, even a simpleton should know the truth
about the 1996 "welfare law". Why don't you?
Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act 1996:Granted states more autonomy over welfare delivery. Requiring recipients
to begin working after two years of receiving benefits;Placing a lifetime
limit of five years on benefits paid by federal funds;Aiming to encourage
two-parent families and discouraging out-of-wedlock births.Enhancing
enforcement of child support.In granting states wider latitude for
designing their own programs, some states have decided to place additional
requirements on recipients. Although the law placed a time limit for benefits
supported by federal funds of no more than 2 consecutive years and no more than
5 years over a lifetime, some states have enacted briefer limits.The
LDS system is great in theory, but often people get assistance with little to
nothing asked of them in return.
Oh LDS liberal you know full well that the Church for the most part asks people
to do something in return for the aid received. Unlike the Government, which we
all know just gives money away while asking for HARDLY anything in return.
@LDS LiberalThere's a difference.LDS welfare - Provide
immediate relief, then teach self-reliance.Socialism - Provide immediate
relief, then keep on providing it until the money runs out.Even a
simpleton can understand the difference.
Argghhhh!Welfare - that evil Socialist ideology where the haves give
to the have nots.Re-distribution of wealth, etc., etc. etc.[sarcasm, off]Hats off to our LDS Social Justice.
Would love to see some statistics about church run farms. How many, which
states, total number of acres. That would be impressive also. To see how much of
the supplies that the church uses, that it produces itself. The amazing thing to
me about the church welfare system is that it is about enabling people to become
producers and not just consumers.