Comments about ‘Temples, welfare highlight Sunday conference topics’

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Published: Sunday, April 3 2011 5:13 p.m. MDT

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

I "told" you Mormonism is liberal.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Welfare with work attached! Imagine that! Liberalism (socialism) is free everything with no work attached= dependancy= loss of human dignity= just another form of slavery! Work for your welfare and you have a perfect way to care for the poor! I think the Mormons are on to something that I wish the government would adopt! Imagine getting food stamps or free healthcare only if you cleaned up roadside trash or washed public building windows/floors/walls for your benefits! Most poverty would vanish!

higv
Dietrich, ID

We are taught to be charitable with our own property. Not take money from one person to give it to another. How can you be blessed for not doing something willingly.

jonjon
Cedar Hills, UT

I "told" you Mormonism is liberal.

------------

More like Libertarian. Listening to the prophet made me excited for the Rome Temple Dedication. Also Elder Holland could make a Billion Dollars as a motivational speaker.

Serenity
Manti, UT

Elder Holland could make a billon dollars----

Elder Holland, Elder Bednar, Elder Dallan H Oakes, to mention a few would all be great motivational speakers. In fact, they were, during conference. I was very motivated.

Now, I also want to go to Rome to attend the new temple being built there. Who would have thought?

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Not take money from one person to give it to another. How can you be blessed for not doing something willingly.' - jonjon | 8:59 p.m.

Did you give your 10%?

I dont' believe you. We should audit.

Also, did you get your 'recommend?'

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Pagan | 10:59 a.m." the 10% tithes it to take care of the physical needs of the church, and has absolutely nothing to do with welfare.

The welfare money that is donated to the church is not just "given" to people. The recipiants, where possible, are asked to work for what they receive.

To "LDS Liberal | 6:07 p.m" Explain how making people work for something, and creating a non-governmental service is liberal.

What is being done is conservative or libertarian, but not liberal if you must classify it.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Pagan | 10:59 a.m. April 4, 2011

Tithing collected from LDS members is not used for welfare needs. Those funds come from fast offerings that are above and beyond the 10% donation you referred to.

And yes, members are "audited" during tithing settlement at the end of each year. Whether they answer truthfully is between them and their Maker.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'And yes, members are "audited" during tithing settlement at the end of each year. Whether they answer truthfully is between them and their Maker.' - Rifleman | 11:49 a.m.

Not true.

As I understand it, if a person does not meet the minimum requirements, they do not get a 'recommend.'

Giving 10% is one of those requirements. Or giving 'from fast', but giving none the less.

So, a consequence: The denial of recommend, is evident.

If not 'giving' that 10%. Or from others, as your example gives.

How is having a consquence...

a 'charity?'

To claim that money is somehow 'not' given to welfare...
when the very TITLE of the article cites 'welfare highlight'

is a contradiction.

Also, since both Rifleman AND Redshirt1701 had to reply to me...

I must have hit a sore spot.

Good day.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

To Pagan: Both Redshirt and Rifleman are correct. It is you that is misinformed. We are asked to give 10% od our increase to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. This amount is our tithing money. This is what is counted as our money to obtain and MAINTAIN a Temple Recommend.

The money we give to fast offerings, temple building, printing of the Book of Mormon, and other offerings are above and behond the 10% tithing.

We are not audited in the same since a business is. The Bishop/Branch President doesn't have us bring in our pay stubs and then he looks it over and say you gave 10% or you didn't. We give that as an honor testimony. The Bishop/Branch President doesn't ever say prove it. As Rifleman so perfectly put it what we say is either honest or it is not, thus it is between us and Jesus Christ, no one else.

Did I give my 10% last year, yes and much more to the other areas I can give. In all I gave closer to 15-20% to the LDS Church. Do you have a problem with that?

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Pagan | 11:57 a.m." you didn't hit a sore spot, you just got two repsonses submitted within a short period of time.

I was just trying to correct your ignorance. However, as you show here, you don't want to learn something new. You only want to continue to live in ignorance.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Pagan | 11:57 a.m. April 4, 2011

You need to slow down and catch your breath. The reason people are responding to your comments is because they are inaccurate.

You are confusing the annual tithing settlement with the temple recommend interview which only occurs once every 2 years.

You also appear to have some confusion regarding fast offerings but it would be fruitless to try and explain it other than to say tithing funds aren't used for welfare purposes.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Pagan is correct broadly, ie. if a member admits they don't pay 10% tithing then they are denied a temple recommend. However, leaders don't actually ask about wages/income or request proof of wages/income. It is merely a declaration by the member. Therefore, people could lie and declare themselves a tithe payer and get a temple recommend.

re:higv
"How can you be blessed for not doing something willingly."

Agree. I choose to "willingly" pay taxes to help the elderly, poor, and disabled.

Govt. and charities have a role in caring for the needy in our country. Neither can do it alone. If it weren't for the govt. programs, the demands on the Church for assistance would be significantly greater. The majority of govt. welfare goes to Social Security and Medicare. How many wards could shoulder the burden to keep the elderly fed and housed without Social Security? How many wards could pay the medical expenses of the elderly and disabled without Medicare?

I wonder what would happen if tithing went to care for the needy and fast offerings went to pay for church operations?

MrsH
Altamont, UT

And actually, I look at "willingly" in a different way.

If I don't want to give, I DO NOT have to. It is my choice whether I want a temple recommend or not. (Tithing or fast offerings, I think you're splitting hairs here.)

Obviously some do not care, and so do not give willingly. That's your privilege.

But why do you insist on judging my choices?

MiP
Iowa City, IA

Pagan, you lost me at "As I understand it..."

RedShirt1701, I disagree with your assertion that the LDS welfare system is "What is being done is conservative or libertarian, but not liberal if you must classify it." My disagreement: I don't think it should be classified. Because, ultimately, if someone needs your help and is unable to repay "you" or the system, would you still withhold your help?

Serenity
Manti, UT

Hmmmm this sure got off the Conference talk topics. In the Holy Bible, in the book of Malachi, the Lord commands us to pay tithing otherwise He says that we have robbed Him. We are also commanded to be charitable towards the poor and the needy throughout the Scriptures.

So when we pay tithing, we are only being obedient to the Lord. We are accountable for our own tithings and offerings to the Savior and if we are able to look into His eyes and tell Him we were honest with Him, then we can tell the bishop that we are full tithe payers. That way we also have fulfilled ONE of the requirements to receive a temple recommend. There are many more.

Everyone who believes in the Bible, not just Mormons, are required to tithe according to Malachi.

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

The LDS Church welfare system is only temporary in nature. It is there to help and get someone started in the right direction. President Reagan went through the Welfare Center of the Church and indicated that this is the way the US should be run. As many leaders have stated, we take the person to the lake/stream and teach them to fish so that the next time they can catch their own fish. The US system is to take them to the stream and get them fish but never to teach, thus they come back and need someone to catch that fish. One is socialistic and one is self-reliance.

Also, for those members who need assistance may be asked to assist at the Bishop's storehouse to stack shelves, can goods, clean the chapels and other work. They are never forced however, assistance may be taken away at the Bishop's/Branch President's discretion. The LDS Church's organization is perfect ran by imperfect individuals yet it has worked for 75 years and continues to do so. By the way the fast offering stays in the Ward/Branch for use of local members.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

re:Bill in Nebraska
"Also, for those members who need assistance may be asked to assist at the Bishop's storehouse to stack shelves, can goods."

Apparently few people are informed about the govt. welfare system.

#1. I've lived in many different wards outside of Utah. Many times assistance is given without requiring people to work for it. (few people live near a Bishop's storehouse). The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 allows states latitude in how it distributes aid, requires recipients to find work or perform community service within 2 yrs., and imposes lifetime limits.

#2 Unused fast offerings are returned to the Stake.

#3 Families/individuals in Utah, with its majority LDS members, receive federal/state aid. So apparently the Church welfare system can't/doesn't meet everybody's needs. The Church welfare system applies only to LDS members.

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