Comments about ‘Public service is noble’

"Teaching, delivering the mail, fighting fires, being a police officer, being a social worker and being a clerk who staffs our public offices... They were, and are, proud to serve the public."

Get with the program, Mr. Florez! For a guy who works for a newspaper, you're _so_ behind the times!

Listen to Michelle Bachman, or Newt Gingrich, or FOX News, or Walter Williams, or Charles Krauthammer, or any one of a dozen freshly-elected TeaParty Governors: Public employees are in reality the people who single-handedly destroyed our economy and are propelling this nation into economic and moral ruin!

That's the new Tea Party line, and by golly, I'm going to follow it!

(Today, at least.)

Ya - Public Service, like making $600 a month in the Military.
Feeling proud to serve your Country was the biggest pay-check we ever got.

The Tea Partiers and the GOP see every public servant an the "enemy of the State" that must be destroyed.

While protecting WallStreet & the Banks that actaully gutted the system.

Pathetic.

It's noble UNLESS... you're in it for the $$$$.

That's why all the strike threats... and protests... based mostly on the $$$ are turning many people against public employees recently (like the crass and pushy mob of Union protesters in Wisconsin recently).

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I agree public employees make a sacrifice to do what they do... but they need to make sure they don't get in it for the $$$. They have to be SERVICE oriented people.

When you get a money grubbing person in a public position... it usually turns out bad, not only for the people, but also for the employee.

"It's noble UNLESS... you're in it for the $$$$."

Please show us the peace officers, firefighters, EMT's, park rangers, school teachers, librarians, social workers, youth counselors, maintenance workers, restaurant inspectors, etc. who are "in it for the $$$$."

If you'd spent your career in a public sector job and the new Governor declared that your retirement package and health insurance benefits were an unreasonable burden on taxpayers (while simultaneously giving generous tax breaks to corporations), what would you do?

In a Labor Day address in 1980, Ronald Reagan said:

"Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."

Yes, his comments we in regard to the Solidarity movement in Poland, but does that in the slightest way change the essence of his central point - that free unions and collective bargaining are essential to freedom?

Poles have a right to organize and collective bargaining, but school teachers, cops and firefighters don't? Really?

BTW - what's wrong with expecting to be fairly paid for the work you do? Since when is that _not_ an American value?

Blue | 11:44 a.m.

You said, "please show us the people who are in it for the $$$"...

The best example I can give you is... the public_employees in Wisconsin.

They ditched the kids they were supposed to be teaching, and left them without a teacher so they could go protest for more money.

They were cursing and yelling and acting like ADHD riddled children because their MONEY was being threatened by not letting the Union push the legislature around.

THESE people were obviously too obsessed with money.

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Because their money was threatened (not their jobs, just their raises)... they ditched their jobs, yelled and cursed and pushed people around and broke windows, art, doors, etc, to make a scene during the Legislature... in hopes of intimidating the Legislature into doing what they wanted (instead of showing their displeasure where it SHOULD be demonstrated... at the BALLOT BOX).

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I never said we had people like this in Utah. I don't think we do. I used to work for the State and we have more good people than I can count working there. And most of them KNOW they are making less $$$ than they could elsewhere.

The salaries of public employees are listed on the Internet. Spend some time and compare your neighbor's salary to your own. A very quick check showed that there are more than 2,400 Utah State workers receiving more than $100,000 per year in compensation. There are more than 6,700 receiving more than $75,000 per year. There are more than 14,700 receiving more than $50,000 per year.

That's hardy slave wages.

Compare those wages with the wages of the people who pay the taxes that pay the wages of those State workers. There's a pdf chart listing twelve non-farm areas in Utah. The average wage is $3,080 per month, or $36,960 per year. On that chart ALL areas except mining had an average income of less than $46,272 per year. Mining averaged %60,780 per year.

Comparing top wages in Utah State Government with average wages in other industries is not fair, but can almost 15,000 people be paid more than $50,000 per year in Utah State Government 'serving us'?

It's time for some of those 'servants' to find a private sector job.

Public service has stopped being noble when they stopped caring about the public. Teachers don't care about the students. City workers don't care about city residents. They just care about lining there own pockets. Don't get me wrong, there are good public servants out there. Most of them are not. Everytime I am waiting in line to get something done, there are at least 10 people behind the counter just joking and laughing. Its always funny how they are allowed to take their breaks during the rush hour. If they are there to serve the people, why does it take 3 hours just to make an appointment with the social security office. That is how long it took me.

Jory: "Public service has stopped being noble when they stopped caring about the public. Teachers don't care about the students. City workers don't care about city residents. They just care about lining there own pockets..."

I was about to respond, something along the lines of "Are you serious?" but then I remembered what day this is.

Mike Richards: Compare those wages with the wages of the people who pay the taxes that pay the wages of those State workers. "

(I know you'd never attempt satire so I'll take you seriously.)

"(C)an almost 15,000 people be paid more than $50,000 per year in Utah State Government 'serving us'? "

Well... yes. What are the education and licensing requirements for those jobs? If you're not comparing jobs of comparable educational and professional requirements, then you're simply dealing in apples-to-oranges.

What's really fascinating here is that the Tea Party crowd has invented a new enemy - public employees - and it doesn't bother them at all that there's no evidence to support their slander, they just go with it because irrational, aimless rage is so emotionally satisfying for them.

re: Blue | 3:53 p.m. April 1, 2011

Let's get past the name-calling and slurs against people who have different politics than you do. Frankly, knowing that the Deseret News allows people to slander a whole group of people using words like 'Tea Party Crowd' instead of requiring us to deal with issues - without the slurs - seems to be counter-productive.

Education does not guarantee a bigger salary. If it did, every college student who received a degree in music appreciation would be paid as much as every student who graduated in the hard sciences. I have nothing against music appreciation, but there are limited opportunities for those graduates.

The public sector serves the public. Paying someone over $100,000 a year to scheme of ways to justify his job is not serving the public. Having unionized public employees threaten to shut down the government unless their demands are met does not serve the public.

Government is broke, penniless, bankrupt. Everyone knows that except unionized public employees. They've swallowed, hook, line and sinker, the class warfare, class envy mantra that flows out of Washington.

Their work is not worth more than anyone else's.

Hey LDS Liberal:

I got news for ya. The Wall Street people you are always talking about give just as much money to the Democrats as they do the Republicans and the Democrats have played that to their advantage as much and even more than the Republicans, so get your facts straight. We all understand that you are government employee who has never known what it takes to make a payroll or keep a business going but your paychecks have come from hard working tax paying citizens so please give us a break and stop spreading lies

2bits lectures us with "When you get a money grubbing person in a public position ..."
I wonder if he's referring to Dick Cheney (former CEO of defense contractor, Halliburton") and when Cheney's rush to war on Iraq got no international support and has bankrupted the country while he and his Halliburton buddies made out (and still are) like bandits?

Mike Richards | 12:51 p.m. April 1, 2011

Where do you get your information?
I made nowhere close to 100,000 a year when I worked for the state.
I think most state workers would wonder also who is making that kind of money
There are some state jobs that require science, engeering, law, medical degrees.
But I do not know that the average state worker makes that kind of money.
it is true that once they are on for a year it can be hard to fire them.
But most state jobs are not lined with gold.
The truth is I make more money now working 9-5 at a private business then I did working 5 am to midnight as a social worker.
And I am more respected, have better retirement, and more time off.
But education is wasted on me apparently and very many state workers because we do not have scientific or business degrees.
Apparently the work that police, firefighters, social workers, ect.. do is not of value in our society.
I say see what happens if we all quit.

Mike,

You're saying that the "Tea Party crowd" _doesn't_ think of public employees' unions as an enemy?

Show me anyone, anywhere, with a B.A. in "Music Appreciation."

What I'm talking about are jobs that require teaching degrees, engineering degrees, IT/IS degrees, medical degrees, degrees in finance, accounting, administration, social work, etc.

Compare apples-to-apples, or you don't have an argument.

Society can pay public employees less if it wants to. What will result. Lower caliber people with less options will be the ones who choose to apply for those jobs.

Like the new dumbed down math where kids don't learn times tables or add fractions? Reading without phonics? Your kid can't read or do math?

Let's be cheap with all our public employees and see where that gets us.

re: VIDAR | 6:58 p.m. April 1, 2011

VIDAR, you claimed that you worked for the State as a social worker. That implies that you have a degree from a college or university. Surely with that kind of education, you know how to do a little research for current wages in Utah. (Hint: Google Utah Public Salaries. Then, after you've found the site, browse by agency. You'll find the name, the position, the department and the compensation listed for every person on the public payroll. Click on the name, and you'll see exactly how that they arrived at the compensation figure.)

re: Blue | 7:21 p.m. April 1, 2011

Blue, until you can prove that the citizens of Utah NEED to pay 14,700 State workers more than $50,00 a year to do the ESSENTIAL work of the public, then YOU'RE part of the problem - overpaying people for jobs that have little or no real value to the people who pay their wages. YOU justify each and every one of those jobs. YOU show that each is based on Constitutional authority. PROVE your point.

RE: Mike Richards

ok i checked it and you are right there are many people that work for the governement that make too much money.
Most of the top people I saw were lawyers, doctors, accountants.
But the majority of those who work for the governement do not make these high salaries.
And 50,000 is not that much money to make so I do not know what you point is.
Now lets do the same comparison with the private sector.
Lets start with what CEO's make vs the average worker.
you are right in your point that some people are paid more then they should.
I think we have this problem in the government.
But I also think we have this problem in the private sector as well.
Too many people at the top take everything and leave scraps for those at the bottom.
And those at the bottom are not paid nearly enough.

VIDAR | 8:44 a.m. April 2, 2011

Okay! We agree that SOME public employees are paid too much money for the jobs that they do.

For someone who has been laid-off or downsized, $50,000 IS a lot of money. It may not be the amount that most people want, but it would be sufficient for most of us.

The private sector has nothing to do with this debate, other than the fact that the private sector pays the taxes that pay the wages of the public sector.

In the private sector, if I don't like the wages paid to someone, I don't HAVE to buy from that business. That's just not the case in the public sector. We're stuck with Government. We can't shop around for government services. If we COULD shop around, then the government should not be competing in those areas with the private sector.

People in the private sector are normally paid what they're worth. If an employer consistently underpays his employees, they'll find other jobs. If he consistently overpays them, he won't be able to compete. Over time, it works out.

re: Mike Richards | 10:09 a.m. April 2, 2011

Funny, I seem to remember paying taxes when I worked for the government. I guess it is not only those in the private sector that pay the cost for running the governement.
The problem with your kind of talk is that it is never the people at the top who suffer, but those at the bottom that are making 30-40 K a year. It is the worker who has their wages freezed, and benefits cut.
Did you know that our Utah legislator gives itself state health care benefits and that after ten years they get these benefits for life for themselves and their spouses.
I do belive it is valid to compare what CEO make in this ocuntry compared to their workers.
yes the businesses fail, but then the government bails them out with our tax dollars. And then it is the worker that loses their job, not the overpaid upper management, and if upper management does leave, they take with them golden parachutes funded by our tax dollars.

Mike Richards 4:43 PM

"Let's get past the name-calling and slurs against people who have different politics than you do."

Really, Mike? For someone who accuses Obama of hating the Constitution and the Democrats of everything but kicking puppies, you sure seem thin-skinned.

And saying that the private sector has "nothing to do with this debate" is a misnomer, at say the least. If private business had to focus on teaching children, delivering mail, paving roads, and do all of the other things that help keep society running smoothly, they'd be a lot less profitable. To enjoy the benefits of someone else's work while not wanting to pay their fair share for it seems...well, it seems typically conservative, nowadays.

re: LDS Liberal | 8:29 a.m. April 1, 2011

[...The Tea Partiers and the GOP see every public servant an the "enemy of the State" that must be destroyed... Pathetic.]

Actually, I think the word is ironic Public servants are *the state*.