Re: Pagan | 3:34 p.m. March 31, 2011 The Seattle Parks and
Recreation Department wanted to stop beach bonfires to help slow "global
warming". At the same time almost the entire state of California was being
consumed by brush fires bring the smoke as far west as Salt lake City.When it comes to common sense our friends in government show an astonishing
lack of it.
@DustMagnetWhat does "flex fuel" (actually E85 Ethanol)
have to do with emissions? Ethanol production does nothing but drive up food
prices, we don't want any more of that garbage here than we absolutely have to
'I suppose we could go back to the old horse and buggy days but even horses have
an emission problem.' - Rifleman | 3:16 p.m. Well... I
guess that's comparable to today. *'Fourth-straight red air quality
alert issued for Wasatch Front' - DSNews - 01/07/2011 *'Lung
Association slams Utah areas for bad air' - By Amy Joi O'Donoghue - DSNews -
04/30/09 *'Mucky air blankets northern Utah' - By Jasen Lee - DSNews
- 12/02/2010 Or not.
I'll take Salt Lake City's air over Los Angeles's every day. I suppose we could
go back to the old horse and buggy days but even horses have an emission
Brigham Young, in his day, also had a physical reaction to the inversions that
occurred in the Salt Lake Valley, and traveled south to spend winters in St.
George due, in part, to difficulty breathing. Inversions in that era were
fueled only by the burning of wood in fireplaces in residents homes (prior to
coal being widely used for home heating). And consider how few residents lived
in the valley then.
If you think it's toxic now, wait until the inversion traps that radiation in
Don't you just love those lovely spring and summer brownish skies? How about
the frozen winter fog with it's colorful pallet of blacks, grays and browns? So
beautiful! Must be filled with vitamins and minerals to make us all stronger!Those who are unable to go outside because of that super, duper fresh
air are so jealous of the rest of us. We on the outside breathe deeply and feel
so healthy!And those fabulously lucky respiratory compromises
patients in the hospitals........ Hot Dog, what a great life they are having!Even those in the fabulous fresh air of the Los Angeles Basin are just
dying to get to Salt Lake City and it's amazingsurroundings.
srw | 8:58 a.m. March 31, 2011 Riverton, UT "Car pooling can
cut emissions by 75 percent," said Carpenter, "A car with one person
in it lets one pound of greenhouse gas per passenger mile, whereas a van full of
people lets 1.5 pounds of green house gas per passenger mile."That doesn't make sense. What are the correct numbers? ==================== If I may.1 car X 1 pound / 1
passenger = 1 pound per passenger1 van X 1.5 pounds / 8-15 passengers =
0.1875 to 0.10 pounds per passengerThat easily equates to 75% to 90%
reduction.While Carpooling in a car with 4 people is a clear 75%
reduction.[If you don't want to carpool - try driving a vehicle
getting 40-50 miles per gallon as opposed to a truck or SUV-- it will do the
same thing .... in addition to saving you about $200 - $300 per month.Dollar for Dollar - you could actually be getting that new car for nothing].
What pollution problem?
Not that i am pro kennicott - but there are plenty of other major companies
polluting in UTAH - again - go to the EPA website and look up the TRI (toxic
releases from companies of HAZARDOUS MATERIALS) - look at ATK (for example)And don't forget it is not just the air! check on groundwater plumes of
toxic chemcials - some of which emit vapors that can affect people in houses,
etc.Cars are just part of the problem - i moved here 2 years ago and
own a flex fuel vehicle and yet can't find flex fuel for sale.What
is being done to promote electric for heating etc.? The state i moved from gave
cheaper and cost effective pricing if you heated with electric on off peak
davidmpark,I agree. There is no pollution problem here in Utah.
Forget what scientist tell you (what do they know anyway?). Forget what doctors
tell you about all the deaths and health problems related to Utah's air (what do
they know anyway?). Forget what your eyes tell you when look outside and see
the winter pollution inversion or the pollution haze in the summer (what do we
know anyway?).Rest easy tonight, Utah. Just remember, man cannot
affect the environment one little bit. Rest easy.
The largest RECOGNIZED factors to increases vehicle emissions are--in order: 1) Poor traffic management--slow moving & stop-n-go traffic
SIGNIFICANTLY increases vehicle emissions. Vehicles are less efficient at slower
speeds and while accellerating; just about doubling the vehicle emmision rates.
Shutting down I-15 causes emmissions levels to go thru the roof.2)
Fleet exemptions--Most diesel (trucks, pickups, and passenger cars) and fleet
vehicles (federal, state, and local government vehicles, as well as those
operated school districts, utilities, and large companies) are granted exemption
from emmission testing...even in the counties with the highest pollution
problems.3) Diesel vehicles--while the gases out of the tail-pipe
are about the same, diesel engines emit a much larger amount of
particulate...especially at accelleration and when the engine isn't properly
tuned--they are generally exempted because of pollitics and economics--deisel
engines require special test equipment.It seems that most government
"fixes" are focused on what the public can do, rather than the
govenment changing they own practices.
I remember another article by the D news that quoted Kennocott's emissions as up
to 25% of SL Valley's air pollution. I wonder which number is closer to the
truth?Even if it is 6% that number is still way to high for one
company. I hope they really can halve their emissions by 2014, on a bad air day
a 3% change could literally make a visible difference.
Here are a few things SLC could do to improve air quality.#1: Close
all drive-thrus. Make people park and go inside if they want something. All
those cars idling in line are just creating pollution.#2: Alter
government office and school hours, opening and closing later means less
vehicles on the road during the 6-8AM and 4-6PM rush periods.#3:
Replace all buses with new hybrid models. This includes school buses.#4: Install new intelligent traffic control signals all across town. These
detect changes in traffic patterns and can alter light timing to reduce traffic
jams. Yes, it's an expensive thing to do. Yes, it will inconvenience
some people. However these changes can have a large effect on air quality and
require only minimal changes to people's everyday lives.
St. George has is nice :)
cjin | 8:01 a.m. March 31, 2011 Salt Lake City, UT A few hazy
air days are necessary if we are going to continuing growing. We need growth to
support our economy. We need to grow to support our families. Tokyo supports
about 35 million people. We should be able to support at least that many in this
valley. ========================= And the Japanese --
use mass-transit,R&D Electric Vehicles,No ones drives SUVs
or over-sized trucks,Coal powered plants are being converted to Natural
Gas.I guess you've never heard of the Kyoto Protocol.[Oh, and they are Socialist.]But whatever is good for business,
right? -- Be happy in your little pig-pen.
Last summer on a Timp hike I looked down into the valleys and said "do I
really want to go back down and breathe *THAT*?"We need to face
the fact that as population along the Wasatch Front continues to climb, if we
want to have this place remain in any way a decent area to live in, we're going
to have to change our patterns of development and transportation drastically.
Walkable communities, high density developments rather than suburban sprawl and
strip malls, initiatives to make it more feasible for people to live closer to
where they work, better public transportation, and even biting the bullet and
increasing the gas tax all need to be discussed.Unfortunately, I
don't know that we have the political will to do anything. People are so opposed
to getting together as a community to make long-term plans ("planning how
to deal with growth? COMMUNISM! how dare you limit developers'
'rights'?")In the early days of Utah, we were world leaders in
urban planning. In today's political atmosphere, anybody who would publicly
advocate such planning would almost need to worry about being lynched, even if
they were Brigham Young.
That first quotation should read "natural beauty," not "national
The pollution around here is terrible! We had friends visit us from Southern
California and they were complaining about our pollution. Their eyes were
stinging and their throats were scratchy...now that's a big switch from 20 years
"Car pooling can cut emissions by 75 percent," said Carpenter, "A
car with one person in it lets one pound of greenhouse gas per passenger mile,
whereas a van full of people lets 1.5 pounds of green house gas per passenger
mile."That doesn't make sense. What are the correct numbers?
Want to cut particle pollution by at least 6 percent? Shut down Kennecott. Now
they want to increase production. Just look at that sludge mountain they are
building between Magna and I-80. As the wind blows, it picks up those
particles, and get this, the particles don't just land on Magna, they cover the
whole Wasatch front, and beyond. Kennecott should not be allowed to increase
production, it should be forced to cut production and if possible to shut down.
'Forbes Magazine recently labeled Utah one of the country's most toxic states a
designation that could create concern about the health of residents...' -
Article Could? More like 'has.' * 'Northern
Utah's air is the worst in the nation' - KSL - 01/11/10 Line:
'SALT LAKE CITY -- Northern Utah currently boasts the worst air in the nation,
and it's not even a close margin.' * 'Red air quality alert issued,
limit driving' - DSNews - 08/25/10 *'Study says coal burning in Utah
kills 202 a year' - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/19/10 'SALT LAKE
CITY A study commissioned by Utah state agencies says air pollution kills 202
residents a year.' Small steps to clean the air in Utah are nice. But why can't we take big steps? Are the lives of residents
in Utah worth so little?
I have three comments:1) If UTA is so "green," then why
did they skimp and buy Tier 0 engines on the FrontRunner trains. Have you see
the smoke belching from the engines when they go from Salt Lake up the hill
through Davis County. For just a few thousand dollars, they could have bought
much, much cleaner Tier II or II engines.2) This city is full of
chickens named Little. We have days when pollution is bad. Many, many cities
do. When we have inversions here, it is not uncommon for the jet stream to be
cleaning out the LA basin and the east coast, thus making us the "most
polluted city." Big whoppee! There has to be a "the most," but
it doesn't really mean anything. People don't seem to understand that
generally, we have the cleanest air in the country. Our pollution levels on an
annual basis are much lower than most comparably sized or larger cities on the
planet.3) Before the EPA existed, Utah had Air Conservation
Regulations. EPA keeps lowering the standards, and Utah keeps meeting them.
Working together, we can do anything, but it will take all of us.
just go to the EPA TRI (toxic release inventory) for Utah (you can google it -
this site won't let me provide the link). This is what you are breathing and
drinking! Jobs are not as important as lives and health!
A few hazy air days are necessary if we are going to continuing growing. We
need growth to support our economy. We need to grow to support our families.
Tokyo supports about 35 million people. We should be able to support at least
that many in this valley.
to davidmpark -come on over to my place and see what hydrochloric acid does to a
Because the State's lawmakers value the dirty corporations' money more than the
people or the environment. By law, as i have been told, utah cannot have more
stringent laws regarding pollution than the minimal guidelines that the EPA
has.What is needed is politicians in this State running on pollution
issues - difficult, because the pockets of opponents will be fattened by the
polluters.People need to speak out and continue to speak out. For me - i
will be moving out of this filthy place as soon as i can. My property was
polluted last year - it appears nothing will be done about that or to stop it in
the future.DEQ is meerly the face for the politicians who are in turn the
face of the corporations.If you value your health and lives - move!
Ah, yes: Pogo: we have met the enemy and it is us.I cannot figure
out why Utah is so polluted with so many believers in this being God's country.
How does one dare do this to God's country?
A moratorium on development it the SL valley is the only way to fix this
problem. Make all new business move to south of the prison. The second most
valuable method of pollution clean up is stop salting the roads and make all
construction vehicles wash down their vehicle when leaving a job site. Oh, and a
annual mileage tax on all commercial use vehicles.Government does
not need to spend so much time and money to get a handle on pollution and
inversions in the valley, they just have to be willing to target the commercial
business source and make them feel like they need to be more active in cleaning
up this junk they are leaving behind.
So, Forbes publishes one article WITHOUT publishing the raw data, and now that's
the pretext to seize more of my rights, steal more of my property and money, and
pretty much order me around with social faux pas? No - I refuse.Any
scientist knows that pollution is the same as trash: useful, valuable
commodities people throw away.The air pollution does contain CO2,
O3, and many other USEFUL chemicals that must be HARVESTED - not used for
political pretext by those incapable of seeing the wealth flow in on it's own!
No, instead we get demands to turn over our ability to travel more than 10 miles
in a small time frame to another government entity, and/or we loose more rights
to electricity and heating fuels.For goodness sakes, we are not here
for the sake of government and those that feed from it; we're MEN! Created to
expand our abilities and to create better lives for ourselves - not to serve
weak people who wish to throw away the treasures of the earth for some