Kakashi-Here are some more from the way-back machine:KC Jones, Bill
Sharman, Tom Heinsohn, Billy Cunningham, Larry Costello: All star players who
won championships as coaches.
RE:RedcliffsThis would be really frustrating for the zebras. They
would wear out their whistles calling "rookie" fouls. And they would
not know who to point at after every whistle, since there would be so many
offenders; IE rookies.
We could see a team next year with 3 players with 1 year of experience in
Hayward, Favors and Evans. Now add 2 more rookies that will be pretty high draft
picks, but in what is considered a weak draft by many. We have also seen
historically many very high college draft pick never really become big time
players in the NBA. Now also we possibly add Tomic (that I know very little
about)and you have 1/2 the team made up of developing players with very little
NBA experience. I can see now Kobe's eyes just light up when playing a roster
I'm hoping this ship gets turned around quickly, but I'm afraid this team is
barely on life support right now and I think making the playoffs next year will
be a stretch. As bad as the Jazz have played, we would still be able to make the
playoffs in the East, but the West has many more good teams that the Jazz would
have to leap frog next year. The Jazz right now are much worse than their record
reflects. Remember, early in the season the Jazz had one of the best records in
the NBA but if you go back even before the all star break the Jazz are a real
bottom feeder right now. We need big changes, and I don't know it that can all
happen over 1 off season. I'm hopeful, but also realistic. Go Jazz!!
@CJ Answers to your questionsKOC signed Elson when it looked like
Fes was gone. Then Fes came back. Hence 1 to many Cs. Sloan controlled the SG
postion and did not want a shooting SG. The Jazz have been weak in the SG for
decades. The only time they were good was with Hornecek to open the inside. It
is a Sloan bias.Price was a Sloan Pet. He has a few fans who love
him. I doubt if KOC is one of them. Greg did not like the way Boozer
treated the organization over the years. No one liked the injuries and the
"Im a starter attitude". KOC traded DWill because that was
the best deal he could get quietly before the trade deadline. If he waits for
the new CBA, there is a soap opera and trading a Max contract is harder with a
hard salary cap. There are 96 minutes of C/PF. Rotating
AJ/Favors/Millsap thru those minutes makes great sense. It makes a lot more
sense than playing someone like Elson or Fes for 15 minutes. Millsap
may also be able to play some SF part of the time.
It is in the Jazz best interest to lose as much as possible. They might stay
ahead of PHO and jump IND in the draft. Yes everyone is frustrated
but lossing may make a difference in the draft. Get off of Corbin
and KOC until next year. Sloan had VETO power over all trades and
player selections. I am sure Corbin does not. So far the only
decision that is mostly KOC (with input from Greg) is the trading of DWill for
Harris, Favors and picks. Harris is okay or will be next year. Favors is going
to be ideal at PF for the Jazz (a key position). AJ has started playing well
under Corbin (did not under Sloan). The Jazz have Favors and AJ to
build around. Millsap and Harris are okay. Let KOC get a shooting SG
(something Sloan would never permit) before you rag on him. Let him upgrade the
PG if necessary. Corbin is losing games right now. That is smart and
what needs to happen. It is in the best interest of the Jazz to draft before PHO
and IND if possible. Judge Corbin and KOC next year when it really
is their show.
I want Frank Layden back..........
van gundy is a dream
@CJ Milesjust to add...Larry Bird and Rudy Tomjanovich were
all-stars who became coaches with winning records...Doc Rivers is a one Time
All-Star when he played in the NBA...
@CJ Milesi can name two more...Larry Bird and Rudy
@CJ MilesDare me to name one more...:)this is fun...:)
@CJ Miles....i forgot one NBA Superstar from the Magic Johnson
Era...its Magic Johnson's rival himself...Larry Bird...want me to
give you his standings as a coach?1st year: 58-24 - Lost Conference
Finals2nd year: 33-17 - Lost Conference Finals3rd year: 56-26 - Lost
NBA FinalsI hope the next time you post something...make sure to at
least know what you are talking about or research...i had fun researching...i
had some idle time so what the heck for the fun of proving you
Kakashi.....that was good.
@amgolferyep...i think the real reason...its because if they waited
for next year...Deron will have the upper hand on to which team he should be
traded...if its New York...I dont think new york has assets left for the
trade...so when New Jersey inquired...i think its the best possible deal we
could get for him...and we might still have an outside shot of getting him
back...if Deron is willing to come back...im sure there werent any bridges that
were burnt...so i think he would be more than welcome...to lead us back into
it...i know it wont happen...but its a possibility...im no expert...but for
me...having an athletic big with loads of potential...and a former all-star
pg....who still has juice on the tank and a lottery pick...is good...
Hey B Russ--KOC didn't dump DWill b/c of a tendinosis (chronic) of the wrist.
His wrist just needs to heal nothing more. DWill's wrist will be fine trust me
but one must allow it heal. Yes rest. We received Favors which was good and
Harris is decent--DWill he is not though. Deron's wrist looked good tonight. I
miss how he can take over a game being banged up and all. If Harris could learn
that I would love him.@Sloan Hater--until now I have really fathomed
the idea of JVG coming in and coaching but the more I ponder this idea I like
it. Corbin can then assist him if JVG see's fit. Bring it.....
I'll stick up for KOC a bit, here. We went for it all when we re-signed AK,
gave nice contracts to Okur and Boozer to come here, and signed D-Will. These
four decisions forced less desirable decisions, as we had to let some great
talent go in order to keep our investment in these four. Last season, the Jazz
had the 2nd highest payroll. These four underachieved.I applaud
Larry H. Miller and KOC for giving it everything they had. We're coming home
from Vegas with nothing but the shirt on our backs. Not all of KOC's decisions
have been golden, but KOC's success likely rates better than your average GM in
What general manager gets rid of Maynor and Brewer for a couple of bucks?!?!?And we're still over the salary cap!!!
@CJ Mileshere are some player coaches that might fit the bill...Lenny Wilkens 9 time NBA All-starJerry Sloan 2 time NBA
All-starLarry Brown MVP first ever ABA All-star gameBill Russell
name says it all...:)
@CJ Milesim not sure if my other post was disapproved...but...here
are some coaches..."All-Star" players who turned coach and did a
decent job...Lenny Wilkens (9 time All-star)...Jerry Sloan (2 time
All-star)...Larry Brown (MVP of the first ABA All-star Game)....oh and
finally...the biggest NBA superstar who played then coached and won
championships for both....Bill Russell...Did those names answer your
Question?...oh..and please dont make any reason that they arent coaching
anymore...my point here is that they coached...and they have a decent winning
It's interesting how many people, Sokol especially, don't understand the Jazz's
organizational structure. Jerry Sloan had the final say on all
players draft or otherwise. KOC has always been asked, or told, to find players
that fit in the Sloan System and were of a high enough character that they
wouldn't tell the old man, Sloan, where to stuff is unrelenting negativity. Considering that KOC has helped build the Jazz into a consistent playoff
team while working within these constraints speaks of his talent. Let's just hope this streak of losing gets Greg's attention and he shows us
Jazz fans that he really cares by demoting Corbin back to an assistant while
bringing in Jeff Van Gundy!
I would like the commentators here to put yourself in Corbin shoes for a minute.
When he doesn't let Al Jefferson back in the game he was smart enough to show
his hand and let AJ know that he is the coach and Jefferson can just save his
wind for the hot soup. These guys are getting close to 40,000 to 100 large per
game and the a 26 year old center is going to tell Corbin how he would do it ???
I don't think so. Quite a few have been getting on KOC but, again,
athletes are a tricky business. Before you know it you end with Kirk Snyder from
Nevada and he turns baaaadd fast.I think that the universal feelings among the
NBA GM's is that you cannot second guess how a youngster or spoiled vet will
react or say, you just do the best you can. Anyone remember Len Bias ? I
thinkthe D-will trade will pay off in the long run. To me the Jazz
organization has just given themselves the best option for the most future
options. I say just wait, and give them plenty of rope.
Fire Jerry Jr.There are teams in the playoffs this year with far
less talent than Jerry Jr has to work with..........
I'm rooting against the Jazz. The more games we lose the better daft pick we
get. Then get Jimmer, Derick Williams, Jaycee Carroll, and Mat Howard. Also,
get rid of A.K., Bell, Fez, Elson, Miles, and Watson. And most of all get rid of
Ty Corbin! Sign some one like Alvin Gentry, he almost took his team to the
playoffs, and he still might, with less talent than the Jazz!
I'm definitely bias as a Washington State man here, but Weaver is a baller.
You'll like his defense and unselfishness, but he does/did have a slow release.
Kakashi....You should start naming NBA stars (not role players) who tried
coaching.....Magic, Isaiah Thomas, Jordan, should I keep going?What
gives you any indication that Malone would be a good coach? Been out of the
game for 10 years and could not relate to today's players as the style of the
NBA is different. He comes from the Jordan, Thoms, Magic era and, well, those
players from that era haven't been great coaches. Role players from the era
have done OK but not the stars. Name one coach in the NBA who was a
star when he played?
I would come up with an injury to if I had to play for the Jazz.
@ C J MilesI think KOC pulled the trigger on D Will because he knew his
wrist injury had become cronic. I think he felt that the offer for D Will on the
table from the Nets was as good as any he would get in the future. Favors is the
real deal. Harris is a good backup at the worst. Now it's up to KOC to complete
the deal and get the most from the two first round picks, whether it's through
his selections or if used as pieces to a trade.
@CJ Milesagain you humor me with your statement of "Old Players
dont make good coaches"...Should i remind you that one of the best coaches
today...is an Old Player...Phil Jackson...he even won a championship with the
Knicks as a Player...How about Nate Mcmillan...who coached Portland to the
playoffs even with half a team...Jerry Sloan a hall of Fame coach was a
player...do you want me to continue?...
I think the Jazz should just give in and hire Karl Malone as the new head coach,
and bring Antoine Carr in to be an assistant. Their record probably wouldn't
improve much, but the post game, coaches interviews and team drama would be the
most entertaining that Utah has ever seen. Besides, with Hornacek already
coaching we could all start telling the Horney Big Dog joke again (its been
years since I've got a laugh out of that one).I don't know about the
rest of Jazz nation, but it would give me a reason to start watching Jazz games
Sokol........ The Jazz have good players on this team. Do they lack a great
outside threat? Yes... Do they need a good defensive center? Yes, but name
current teams that have that on the team now!!I think where KOC has
failed is the following:He keeps stock-piling 4's. And can't find a
2. I mean really, how many power forwards does one team need when it has holes
in other places? There is no need for Favors, Millsap and AJ on the same team.
Makes no sense.Why does he insist on keeping Price around this long?
Why did he let Matthews go when he could have traded AK away or not given Memo
such a large contract in order to keep him?Did he even try to keep
Boozer?Why did he trade his best player, DWill, without even waiting
til the collective bargaining agreement was a done deal? Could have kept him
til next year and shopped him to all the teams instead of one........
KOC has brought us some of the best second rounders. I think his trading skills
are lacking as of late but I have faith that the Jazz can turn it around. I know
that right now the Jazz are not so hot but we are a young team and a lot of the
Power in the West is old. In a few years we will be on top again.
Does KOC's success really send a tingle up your spine or other parts? Come on
you really have to be blind to not see the miserable outcomes of the KOC-Greg
Miller brain trust....KOC has failed the fans, failed in drafting, failed in
keeping stars...Do we need to name names? Of course not...I pity those that
defend the man who saw the greatest coach leave and a man, who would have been
perfect for the job in his side kick...
Greg now its your turn to dump some people including KOC, Corbin, Laydon, Bell
CJMiles: Sounds like your really frustrated with CJ, your usually not down on
him for this long. I have missed the last few games and haven't been able to see
how bad it has been.I'm just going to look forward to the future and hope
the jazz get a few good players in the draft. Vesely, PJones, TJones, Knight,
Jonas, Walker, any two of those would be OK.I hope Evans gets alot of PT
at the 3 and I hope Hayward learns to be assertive on offense.
SokolWho would you consider a better GM? I'm not saying O'Connor is
amazing but very few GM's are (Buford, Presti, Walsh). Fact is, most NBA draft
picks do not make it in the league. The majority of players never even earn a
second contract. O'Connor has done a reasonable job in the draft (Milsap, Miles
(not great but an NBA player), Mathews (undrafted), Williams (Mo and Deron),
Brewer, Maynor, etc) especially considering the Jazz rarely get picks in the top
15. Has he drafted busts? Of course, but every GM in the league has. The Jazz
system is also hard for a lot of players to learn making it harder to find
talent that sticks. Should the Jazz replace O'Connor? Maybe.
Sometimes shaking things up can help, other times it can really hurt. O'Connor's future is completely dependent on this seasons acquisitions.
Corbin, Favors, Hayward, Harris, Jefferson, and the draft picks are all solid
pieces to build a franchise on. If players don't pan out, then O'Connor's time
in Utah is probably over. I for one think they will and the Jazz will continue
I like Weaver, he is a better player than Raja Bell any day of the week. Sounds
like some of these Jazz players need to put their purses down and start taking
sokol you are just plain miserable person. All your posts full of venom and
negativity. Did you ever say anything good about Jazz....
I think Fes will...But Malone nor Stockton would allow these 2nd ..Raters to dog
it and toss the season away.Please KOC's record is sufficient to show the guy is
a failure...Was he a salesman for the Millers or something? What gives? Two
guys that should have been cut from the organization a long time ago continue to
drag it down, KOC and Kirilenko.
Has anyone ever thought about evaluating the Jazz medical staff? Just a thought
here but it seems like the players that we have that are injured take an awful
long time to recover from what sound like relatively minor injuries.
MK........Funny stuff. Now I know the reason AJ doesn't have energy to play
defense. Thanks for enlightening me. Old players don't make good
coaches. I don't understand why everyone loves Hornacek as a coach. Give me
some examples of how he has improved the team? Or improved individual players
with their shot? AK is a bad example. He is all over the place.
sokol lives in the past and is now asking for players of yester year to bail the
Jazz out, but one of those players (Hornacek) has been enough to slay the entire
offensive output. Jazz need coaching not washed up players who think they can
coach.Will Fes make it to the hall of shame inhabited by Koufos,
Almond and others?
Hey CJ I don't think that Big Al will take 25 shots, I just don't
think he can do all that work. The way I see it Big Al does, on average, 20 head
fakes and 25 jab steps per shot he takes. So to take 25 shots that would
translate to 500 head fakes and 625 jab steps in a single game. Way too much
work especially now the Jazz are out of the playoffs.
I am tired of all the games missed due to injury. I would love to see the day
that players got paid only when they played. Guaranteed money is just wrong.How ever if my boss would pay me even though I didn't show up, I am
quite sure I would take that deal.
Looks like CJ will be playing 40 minutes on Friday and jacking up 25 shots and
only make 10 of them.....Big AL will get off 25 shots and make 8 of
them.Lakers by 20
Ha ha ha...what Koolaid are you drinking...Do the names Kostas Koufus, Morris
Almond,etc..mean anything to you? I would say we have the worst GM in
basketball since Isiah Thomas...or Michael Jordan...This guy should be
gone..replaced by either John Stockton or Karl Malone as GM. The new coach
should be Jeff Van Gundy.
I've always found it amazing how many guys get "hurt" on losing teams
and need to sit out, while the winners have no such problems and have guys
pushing to get playing time.Frankly, I think it's a scam. Guys
don't want to play with minor bruises if the games don't mean anything!
KOC is a great GM. The Jazz need to search their 'emergency list' for Corbin's
Go get JC Carrol.
Blow up this team.
How can we get KOC out?
OH, go ahead, and just add the Jimmer!