What do I hate about the Rick Reilly article?It makes me, as a Ute
fan, want to come to the defense of BYU and specifically Jimmer. I've taken my
jabs at Jimmer, all in good fun with friends who are Cougar fans, but the kid is
a phenomenal athlete and obviously a good person. Rick R is a classless
"celebrity" that hides behind the skirts of ESPN after making rash,
unfounded comments. It is no coincidence that you can't make comments at the end
of his articles as you can most other ESPN stories. And could the religious jabs
have been any lazier? I can't believe we withheld a polygamy comment.Jimmer won't likely be a star in the NBA, but that doesn't take away from what
he accomplished in the NCAA. Even I couldn't help but pump my fist after some of
the long-range threes he drained. I have no problem admitting I spent the
2010/11 season jealous of "The Jimmer". (Okay, so the name does get
obnoxious)GO UTES!!!(By which I currently mean, GO - and
get a coach already - UTES!!)
You wasted all this space to give the "outside media" the attention
they're looking for Harmon????You've got your own
"arrogance" to worry about!! I wouldn't be worrying aboutESPN
(the one that BYU embraced because of new TV contracts, even when Samuelson and
Checketts knew what kind of deal you were getting with the MTN).
I'm a Cougar fan, and no, I didn't like the Reilly article. But the reason I
didn't like it wasn't that he said nothing valid and it was hate-filled or some
huge religious assault on the LDS faith. I didn't get that impression. The pizza
guy comment, Provo car-dealer comment, etc, seemed a little excessive and the
guy probably isn't too fond of BYU and its athletes/culture and he, like many
Americans, seem to think if a kid isn't huge, covered in tats, and a certain
skin color, they aren't much of a natural athlete. But his story also told a lot
of hard truths- Jimmer didn't play defense, he didn't box out, and he had a
really off night. So Harmon's defense seems a little too strong of a reactionary
piece in my opinion, taking things too far in the other direction. Reilly was
largely right about Jimmer's performance. The problem I had with Reilly's column
is he unfairly took one poor performance and painted his whole career and his
abilities as less than what they are based on his worst moment
Thanks Dick! Your article just affirms what I said early. Reilly had
an axe to grind against BYU and mocked all religions. I have no problem about
debates and opinions on facts but personal attacks are a 'below the belt'
cheapshot.The guy showed his true colors like an 'angry mob'. He
needed to be called out.
I believe Reilly targeted the Jimmer because Fredette is white - as well as
being religious. Same reason he picked on that kid in Iowa who wouldn't wrestle
a girl, another white religious nut!You see Reilly would never
target a black athlete for a scathing review like he did with the Jimmer because
like most lefty writers he is afraid of being called the "R" word.
Typical liberal double standard. The next time Reilly writes a critical article
of a black athlete will be the first time he does so...
Great. Let's dig up every offense and injury we've had from Sportswriters. I'm
not sure why this was written or what we learned new. Like the "Big
Love" show, etc., the best thing is to ignore this tripe. Reilly obviously
did not watch Jimmer until his last game and pretends to know his future based
on one bad outing. Jimmer for his part NEEDS to play D and step it
up in championships which he did not do this year at the MWC vs. SDSU and NCAA's
vs. Florida. Champions do that. I love Jimmer and feel lucky to have watched
many of his performances this year. I rely more on the insight of NBA players
who have played with Jimmer on whether he is NBA caliber. I'm sure he'll do just
fine and will be making a lot more money in the next 5 years than you, me or
...umm no, cottonwood, Harmon is spot on. He has drawn a strong corollary
between the psuedo-intelligentsia in sports journalism eminating from the Denver
area and unwarranted and unsubstantiated attacks on all things BYU. Rick Reilly
is a coward who hides behind the skirts of his own celebrity who won't even
allow his comments to be commented upon. He is case and point as to what is
wrong with sports and sports coverage in the USA. The cult of celebrity trumps
talent and personality constantly now. The fact that you don't see it proves
If you lived in Colorado, what would you do? One state university is a
consistent embarrassment both athletically and academically. Cheating has been
rampant in the past. Political correctness rules over fact and logic. It is
bound to attract writers that mirror values of the major university and the
elected officials. They think they are very, very smart. They let their
political bias reflect on everything they do.
Great. Let's dig up every offense and injury ever dished out by sportswriters.
Best thing is to ignore this tripe and not stoop to their level. I feel sorry
for these "experts" who missed one of the best season-long
performances by a college hoops player (and one with class) in recent memory.That said, Jimmer could learn from this experience. He DID NOT play well
in the MWC championship vs. SDSU or in the NCAA's vs. Florida. He came out tired
and lacked his usual intensity in both games and will need to learn to step it
up (and play D) in the NBA.I have no doubt Jimmer can do it and
trust the judgement of NBA stars who have played with him FAR MORE than Reilly
or any sportswriter who probably can't even dribble a basketball, much less play
a game. Jimmer will be earning far more money in the next 5 years than you, me
or Reilly (or any Isuzu dealer).
More than a pattern Harmon, a program of hate. Nice piece of work. Nobody is
crying foul, but it's nice to know where your enemies are and where hate is
Truth will win out in the end, regardless of what sports writers or others think
they know. Sure negative comments hurt, but we must just keep on doing what we
can and let the chips fall where they may. Harmons column reminded me of the
following 3 observations of life:1. A friend, a graduate of the University
of Colorado described Bolder as "a community of 80,000, surrounded by
reality." 2. It seems that the far left AND the far right spend more
time bashing their opponents than crafting good solid arguments for their
positions. 3. Eisenhower is credited as saying: "You never get credit
for all the good you do, nor can you ever explain away all the lies that others
tell about you." Thanks Jimmer, for giving us something good
and positive to rally around these past few months. It has been an incredible
ride. You have lifted us from thinking only of depressing world events such as
the economy, war, natural disasters, people hating people. Your talent,
humility, hard work, and dedication to your team-mates have served you well, and
been a reminder to us all of how we should live and serve others.
Leave it to harmon to once again spread the gospel of vicitmisation. Seems like
just yesterday he was on his soapbox denouncing the PAC12. And the lemmings lap
it up.This same "soapbox' was used by harmon to promote the
unrealistically and unattainable virtues of the jimer for over two years. Should
we have expected anything different when the National media finally realizes
that all this hot air doesn't add up to the actuall product on the floor?Rielly was simply calling out the self induced propaganda machine as
being fraudulent. What stings the most is that after years of building up the
myth known as the "jimer", on a National level, will be remebered as a
I recall no one, Reilly included, thought that John Stockton would be a star in
the NBA. So what does Reilly know? Apparently nothing.
Rick Reilly is irrelevant, and he knows it. This was his bratish way of saying
"look at me." As for Jay Mariotti, just ask Ozzie Guillen what he
thinks of that guy.
I am pretty sure he used the term "Jimmered" incorrectly at the
beginning of this article. From my viewpoint it has always meant "you got
beat down in a defeated or vanquished kind of way". That is why it is
always chanted at the end of the game when the defeat is certain. I have seen a
few such as Harmon think Jimmered means just "beat up". It just seems
wrong to call Jimmer "Jimmered" because Reilly did not come close to
defeating or cutting down Jimmer in defeat.Harmon should know this better
than anyone since he has witnessed the most Jimmering first hand. Come on Dick,
get it together.
There is much more support for Jimmer than there is for Rick Reilly. Rick is
one of the few people that can get Ute Fans to pull for Jimmer and BYU.
Who cares about Rick Reilly and what he says anyway! A couple of points he has
written about now and in the past. If going on a LDS mission is such an
advantage, then why don't other coaches use it to their advantage? Believe me,
most coaches will tell you they feel it HURTS most athletes to leave for 2 years
(even at the Y). Second, why doesn't the issue ever come up when BYU is having a
bad season? As far as Jimmer not playing defense as a liability in the NBA? 90%
of the NBA players do not play defense! Go watch any NBA game if you don't
believe me! I would rather have a great shooter on my team than a defender
I notice a lot of bYu fans are clinging to "Riely only saw one game"
excuse as a way to discredit his views.1)But I must ask; Isn't that
game a pretty good snap shot of his entire season?Does the jimer not
shoot in the 30% ( certainly trended that way over the last 6 games)2)Does the jimer not turn the ball over a lot for a PG?3) Does the
jimer not take ill adviced shots when other teammates are open?4)
Does the jimer not play defense?All four points can be attributed to
just about any game he played this year.
Reminds of grade school when jeolous kids are throwing rocks from a distance,
too scared and cowardly to go at it face to face. Thats what Mr. Reilly reminds
of. He also reminds of the individual that Forrest Gump beat up; remember that
little hippie that was treating Gump's girl friend bad, the one that he loved,
admired and grew up with--we are like peas and carrots. Also, all those hippies
that were boarding the bus; thats what liberalism reminds of. The reason why I
recognize it is because I grew up with it attending school in Flagstaff Az.
Never want to be part of that rock throwing culture; they don't have the courage
to go at it "face to face". Mr. Reilly never played with prisoners
like Jimmer did; In fact, Mr. Reilly probably couldn't handle being around
prisoners--too cowardly and itimidated, while throwing rocks from a distance.
@ hedgehog. "Jimmer" is spelled with two (2) m's. One thing Jimmer
will not be is a fraud. All the points he scored in college is not a fraud.
I've read the article twice now, and I don't see the hate. Mr. Reilly
exaggerates slightly, but he also makes some valid and fair observations. Jimmer
has a great game, but there are definitely weaknesses to it. He has a future in
the NBA, and it will have to be a good fit with the right team. And
regarding exaggerations, I read Mr. Harmon's columns of the past couple of
months, including two on Mar. 23 - How would Jimmer Fredette, Maravich measure
up? and The Jimmer glossary, and I conclude there's been exaggerations for and
against Jimmer. Both Mr. Reilly and Mr. Harmon exaggerate, even if they are
great reporters--well, good ones...I don't want to exaggerate!
With no evidence to the contrary, Reilly can draw any conclusion he desires.
Reilly saw one Jimmer game live. It was among his worst performances. Based on
that game, it would be reasonable to conclude that Jimmer was a defense inept
ball hog. "Mr. Reilly," we protest, "if only you would have tuned
to obscure channels to watch other games, you would have a different
opinion." Mr. Reilly had only viewed highlight clips of Fredette. The live
experience left him wanting. Anybody who jacks up 30 shots will be able to fill
some 20 second clips.Reilly's analysis is accurate if we consider
only the Florida game. Rick has no interest in research. He has no interest in
accuracy. Is it reasonable to evaluate an entire college career on one
performance? Obviously not. But, despite evidence to the contrary, Rick
developed an inadequate analysis based exclusively on a myopic performance
evaluation. Rick was wrong in 2001. He is wrong now. He doesn't care about facts
or the opinions of Utah Valley.
Yep, definitely a pattern. Reilly is as transparent as a livingroom window. He
has someone else in mind for the Naismith and is dong his best to dis Fredette
to give "his guy" a better shot.
Hedge,I'm the main one saying Reilly saw only one game because he
said so. You and Reilly are perhaps the only 2 people in the country that can't
say anything positive about the kid. I can understand loving the U but can't
fathom anyone who can't give some credit to Jimmer for an outstanding season. I
challenge you to come up with one legit compliment (or statistic). What did
Jimmer do to you? Run over your dog? Date your daughter (that is if you're not
single and 45)? Have you not forgotten you were jilted by BYU Admissions all
those years ago?? Get over it!!!Pity the poor soul who lives in
Michigan and wakes up daily to trouble BYU fans around the world. Can I help you
find a job or does your wife know you have time on your hands??
Some people used to complain that Wilt Chamberlain couldn't play defense, and
some others complained that all Bill Russell could do was play defense. If I
recall correctly, Jimmer scored thirty-two (32) points in the Florida game.
That isn't too shabby for anyone. Jimmer's greatness has raised expectations to
ridiculous levels among many people, including some of his supporters, and
triggered envy especially among the pickle sucking detractors. Nobody playing
in the NCAA this year had a year like Jimmer. He had a better year for his
team, and as a consequence of that team success, well deserved recognition for
himself than anyone. This recognition has been carried with humility. When he
says that his measure of his success is whether "people think he is a good
guy" it says a great deal about him. Some may remember, as I do, that
while McMahon was playing at BYU, the Daily Universe printed this comment during
fall camp, "The biggest concern on the team was whether they could find a
helmet big enough for McMahon's head." That is certainly not Jimmer, and
probably not McMahon either, but it was funny at the time.
A special reminder to all you BYU fans........Jimmer was fun to watch, but if I
do recall, it takes 5 guys to play basketball!!!This includes
sharing the ball and playing defense!!
eatcoastcoug,I have no problem with the jimer. He's a good shooter
and seems like a ok kid. I simply bring rational thinking to irrational arrogant
fan base.It was just a few days ago the ministry of propaganda
(harmon) was comparing the jimer to pistol pete.jimer might pay at
the end of the bench in the NBA for a couple of years. That's all it is.
Jimmer has legitimate concerns about making the transition to the NBA along with
most of the top 10 prospects. A recent report on the prospects with the biggest
bust potential put Jimmer in the middle of the pack. The other names are mostly
10 ten projected picks. That is good company and a good risk.If Jimmer is not playing 40 minutes a night he will play much better D.
If he can stay in front of his man that will be adequate. Opponents can't pack
the paint with Jimmer. Further, give Jimmer a couple of years to
develop as a PG. Given his shooting, his passing should develop to be just as
proficient. He understands the game and how to get the shots for himself and
others. He finds a way to adapt and succeed. He is much faster and quicker than
most realize. Wait for the combine numbers. He has the potential to be a Kidd
type PG if his defense is adequate.There are a handful of PGs that
nobody defends well. Jimmer will have problems with them but everybody does.
However, he stretches the defense and opens the inside.
Jim McMahon once said of Joe Theisman who was being critical of him "I
don't listen to guys that can only punt the ball 1 yard" The same for
Reilly, don't listen to anyone who didn't play college basketball, what does he
know? he has no credibility!Stay Classy
Anyone who thinks that going on a mission is a physical advantage has never
served a mission!
Thanks for an interesting article Dick. Rick Reilly from what I can gather in
his articles is an anti religious bigot. This only supports my thoughts.Some people feel attacking a college player like this is uncalled for
and while I kind of agree I feel the attack he made on a high school wrestler
was 10x worse. That kid did not deserve the attack Reilly made and Reilly went
on and on about how many bad things have been done in the name of religion and
how this kid forfeiting instead of wrestling a girl was one of them.The ONLY quote Reilly used in the article was the negative one from Nick
Martineau. Why didn't he quote Jimmer? As Harmon noted in another article Reilly
got special access to interview Jimmer. I feel bad for Nick that he is catching
so much flak for that quote and I wonder how much the quote was doctored and
taken out of context to make it come off the way Reilly wanted.Pathetic article. I wish I could comment directly on it, but ESPN won't let
Wow Dick. Exaggerate much? Jimmer is an AMAZING college player. Best the
state has seen in a while. The jury is still out on how he'll be has a pro,
could be a bust, could be great. We'll have to wait and see. That
said, I really doubt Jimmer has shed a single tear, or had to go to a single
second of therapy to rebuild his ego after being shattered by Reilly's article.
He's a big boy and doesn't need you doing his crying for him.
Some sports writers are just pugilists period! To point out that Jimmer had a
bad 1 game is ridiculous! I remember as a kid my hero Wayne Estes up at Utah
State was playing in an NCAA game against Arizona State along about 1963. Estes
had been averaging in his Sophomore year 20 points a game. Wayne Estes had a
bad game against Arizona State, that is, a bad game by Waynes Standards.He
scored 11 points. Did the sports writers bad mouth him. Mostly not! A
different time back then, But there was 1 writer from the SLTRIB that did.Mooney was his name. Sports writers a lot of them are very unhappy, critical,
people. They really don't have much of a life. Reily falls into a catergory
that many of us call "the little man syndrome" I think most of the
audience knows what that means. I have gotten sick of all the Jimmer media this
year, I will admit. At times it has just been to much. However, to say that
Jimmer doesn't know how to play is childish. He is a scorerer, not necessarily
a shooter, their is a difference. JC was a shooter
Us Jimmer fans may all be thanking Reilly in a few years. Why? I'm betting the
"rip job" article will do nothing but give Jimmer motivation to stay
an extra couple hours training, after an already long day just to work on his
perceived weaknesses. Jimmer has that quality that all the great athletes have.
Hard work ethic and determination. Couple that with his incredible God-given
talent and this kid WILL prove the nay sayers blatantly wrong.
Hedgie;You are definitely on the same level as these CO. sportswriters who
like to bash those who do not buy in to their liberal views. Dick Harmon brings
FACTS to life in this article but hatred blocks the view of those will not
see.When will you stop troubling yourself with matters of class -vs- no
class, hate -vs- rivalry, obsession -vs- competition and jealousy -vs-
admiration when it is evident to all that you do not understand.You get
attention from a few posters for your little hate inspired tantrums and if that
is what your looking to get out of life then more power to you. It is a
reflection of a very sad life, however.I for one am very sorry for you,
your pals and for the Co sportswriters. DN, before you decide
whether or not to post this, please keep in mind that it is written in the same
spirit(sad to say for me) that this article is written about and also the same
spirit as some of the posters in the comment board.
hedgjimmer shot 45 percent this season ? stop trying to low ball him with
30 percent. if you are going to argue use fact, not fiction
Dick,Thank you for the story behind Jimmer bashing story.Your description of the elitist, anti-religious, anti-Mormon bigotry that
pervades the Boulder area is spot on. It's very similar to what's found at the
University of California, which was the main culprit in the opposing the PAC 10
inviting a private, religious school to join the conference.
Hedgehog,Are you trying to slur Jimmer but spelling his name Jimer?
Let's cut the slurs. The DesNews will no longer allow posters to slur the Ute
name by misspelling it so let's do the same for the players. I am a Utah fan
like you but sometimes your attempts at smack are embarrassing. I enjoyed
Jimmer the last two years. He is by all accounts an outstanding young man.
Someone we can all emulate. Yes, his game isn't perfect and Reilly is free to
point that out but he crossed the line when he brought in personal attacks and
religious beliefs. I was left to wonder what all the evangelicals thought when
they read the part about a Mormon boy reading his Bible. We Mormons don't
believe in or read the Bible do we?
Reilly is more comic than sportswriter. He went for laughs, and missed. He was
out of line in the article.Maybe Reilly does have an agenda where
BYU is concerned, but do you deny that Dick Harmon also has an agenda?Harmon needs to tone it down a bit. He does play the victim card, and gets
lots of people worked up to do the same. Turning the other cheek is the best
response, not name-calling and sweeping generalizations.Maybe Reilly
is speaking as Reilly, not as the designated voice of the University of
In Stitches,It's not the mission itself that makes people think BYU
athletes get an edge from their mission service, it's the two years of
maturation that comes with it. In a way, it's like an extended red-shirt
period. You get two extra years to mature physically, mentally, and
emotionally.I served a mission, and came home stronger and more
mature than I was when I left.
with all the crazy jimmermania going on this year I never heard byu fans or
homers (guys like dick harmon) complain about Jimmers terrible defense.
apparently they only watch half the game. Maybe dave rose told jimmer not to
play defense so he could save himself for offense (which I highly doubt). Rick
Reilly hit the problem with jimmer right on the head. As expected by byu fans
and homers (guys like dick harmon)the truth hurts. Here's some more truth. Danny
Ainge was the best cougar ever. Jimmer had crazy range and was very entertaining
to watch. He also seems like a genuinely nice and humble guy. He would fit very
nicely as a specialty 3 point shooter with a very good team like the Lakers.
Great article Harmon! I thought that the Reily article was unprofessional and
focused on just getting attention as opposed to actual reporting. @
hedgehog, no, you certainly can't know everything about a player from just one
game. Just look at the Utah game vs. San Diego (or San Diego State for that
matter). The team struggled, but isn't normally THAT bad.
I hope your reading these comments reilly since you blocked us from being able
to comment on your pathetic article!!!
One wonders what Reilly would have said if Jimmer and His Pizza Men would have
won the national championship?We'll never know...until Altman's Pizza
really does win at the Final Two.But we do know it will hurt Reilly to
have to report it.All the more reason to hope Brigham OLD gets farther
into March Madness faster/sooner.We wouldn't want to have Reilly miss that
happening.Go White. Go Blue.Let's get All Reilled Up.
Let me disclose that I am a Ute fan before I begin my comments.Jimmer was an exceptional college player. There is no doubt about that.
Anyone who argues to the contrary did not watch, does not understand the game,
or chooses to write something that will incite readers.I believe
Reilly fits into the third category. He has intentionally written something to
stir the pot. Strangely, his logic falls flat. He mentions that Jimmer plays
with 4 other "pizza boys"...If Jimmer was not any good and his
supporting cast consists of "pizza boys," how did BYU have such an
extraordinary season?The jury is still out on what kind of pro
Jimmer will be. I think he'll be a contributor, but never a star much like
another beloved BYU player, Mr. Daniel Ainge.
I love hedgehog. She is completly objective. All of us Ute fans fell the same
way he does, he just has the guts to post it. Go Utes.... we will win the Pac 12
in football and basketball. We acthally had a better year. We beat UNM twice,
and yBu lost to them twice. That means we were better.
Those that can, do. Those that can't, write about it.
the REAL DEAL BYU fans are not blind to Jimmer's defense, it's
simply a question of priorities. Jimmer is such a threat offensively, that teams
were double- and triple-teaming Jimmer every game. Jimmer was working extremely
hard on the offensive end, so Rose structured his defense to:1) give
Jimmer an opportunity to rest a little on defense2) keep Jimmer from
getting into foul troubleJimmer isn't the defender Jackson is, but
we really haven't seen Jimmer play defense up to his capability. With his work
ethic, I'm certain Jimmer's defense in the NBA will be much improved over what
we've seen in college.
When did the Jimmer become immune to critisizm? He had an awful game against
Florida. He took too many tough shots, shots that Rose doesn't have a problem
with when they go in, but he clearly ran out of gas and could not deliver late
in the game. He should have done more to get his teammates involved when he
realized he was spent and could not deliver. Just facts if you watched the
game. Florida played terrible that day, could not shoot from the line or
outside of the paint, and was there for the beating. Jimmer did not deliver.
When you're a superstar, you can't just soak up the glory, you take the heat
when you don't play well. That's the territory the mighty Jimmer has entered.
I just don't see what's so bad about calling out a guy when he has a
bad night, especially after he's been nothing but praised upon for months.
I mean really Mr. Harmon, who really cares what sportswriters say anyway ?
LOL(he's a friend from college)Jimmer will do fine in
the pros, celtics - count on it. Reilly will get lots of opps to tag him
again, and again and again... and it won't have a thing to do with reality - it
just sells papers folks.
One point Harmon brought up about a previous Rielly column, about the age
difference in returned missionary players. This one has been put to rest long
ago, so if you hear any sportswriters try to bring up that babble, just
remember: If there was any advantage to be gained, then you'd have Bob Stoops,
Mack Brown, Nick Saban, Les Miles, etc., etc. sending all of their star players
off to the Peace Corps for two years after their freshman or sophomore seasons.
I'd like to thank all the Ute fans who have stood up for Jimmer in the posts
above (full disclosure: I heartily rooted for Utah against Alabama and when they
made the finals of the NCAA). I don't represent BYU fans, but to those who were
supportive of Jimmer, thank you. I think Jimmer was the kind of player that if
you watched him play, you could tell he was special. This year was a treat, and
I'm sad to see it end. It was fun to have so much media attention and discussion
of Jimmer and the team, but I suppose with the good you also get some bad. Reilly was a wart writer in his article. He could have focused on so
many other things that Jimmer has done this year or over Jimmer's career, but
instead he wrote about a wart and focused on a single game. I expected more from
a celebrated writer like Reilly, but after reading Dick's article, maybe I
Hedgehog, maybe you should do the math before you talk about Jimmer's shooting
percentage. Even including his terrible game against Florida, Jimmer shot 44%
from the field (without it, it goes up to 45%). And yes, he does turn the ball
over a lot per game for a point guard, but not for a person who has the ball as
often as him. He was the entire offensive keystone, which means he is bound to
turn it over more, especially when the focus of the entire opposing team is on
one player, him.The biggest beef here is that both you and Mr. Reilly
somehow are assuming that Jimmer played terribly all year against good teams.
Fact is, he had one--yes ONE--bad game all year. He was bound to have one
eventually, especially since the level of play he had to put forward to
compensate for the severe loss on the inside--Brandon Davies--is unsustainable.
This team made do with what it had, and in order to win, Dave Rose made the
changes he needed for the team to win. He used the pieces available to win as
many games as possible.
Once again, Harmon hits it spot-on with his report. Mr. Reilly really is a
classless clown parading as a reporter/columist. The BYU haters are
out there and Rick Reilly is near the top of the list. He really owes Jimmer
and his teammates, along with BYU and the LDS Church a big apology.
While I despise Rick Reilly and his pathetic article about Jimmer and Mormonism
you are really grasping for a causal link to the University of Colorado being
"liberal." Name a University other than BYU in the west that is not
considered liberal (and there are a lot of Mormons that will even claim BYU is
too liberal)? By their very nature, Universities are a place where new ideas
are tested and boundaries are pushed. This isnt unique to Boulder Colorado.
Five articles over 22 years hardly make the case for a political conspiracy
against BYU and Mormons in general. Boulder, Colorado is no more liberal than
Seattle, Washington, Albuquerque, New Mexico, San Diego, California or even Salt
Lake City, Utah. On the other hand, Laramie, Wyoming is probably the closest a
college town can get to being as conservative as Provo and I dont see a lot of
love coming out of Laramie for BYU or Mormons. Dick, you are using the same
tactic Reilly used by making some rash generalizations. Dont scapegoat a
political philosophy to try to explain the reason that three writers wrote
disparaging articles about BYU.
williary"When did the Jimmer become immune to
critisizm?"Nobody said Jimmer was immune to criticism, but
Reilly's Jimmer bashing wasn't "criticism", it was simply a hatchet
job by a hack "journalist" with an anti-religion, anti-Mormon,
anti-BYU, bigotted ax to grind.When Reilly hasn't written a single
article about Jimmer all season long, even though other ESPN writers have
written dozens of articles about Jimmer, the timing and tone of Reilly's article
cannot be excused as meer "criticism".How many times
throughout the season did we see Jimmer serve up a heaping helping of humble pie
to people like Tre'Von who mouthed off about Jimmer.Reilly is the
ultimate coward because he waited until after Jimmer's final college game before
he wrote his hatchet job.
Turn the other cheek, sports fans.
@H-hog:One post from you per DN article is sufficient.@Rick
Reilly: Hate and envy spawns his expert analysis.
Reilly's article stunk. He made some valid points, but they came after he did
too much bashing. I also thought Harmon spent way too much time doing detective
work and writing about something that should be obvious... Elitist BYU has many
haters and there are probably more in their home state of Utah than Colorado...
I'm guessing Dick that you've been to games at the Spectrum or Rice-Eccles?How well Jimmer does in the NBA will be interesting to see. Jimmer was
an undeniable force in college, but yes by NBA standards he seems too slow for
PG, too short for a SG, and has not proved he is a good defender. I think
Jimmer's best chance to shine is by going to a team like L.A. where teams have a
hard time containing Kobe and their big guys in the paint which many times
leaves a guard on the perimeter wide open. I do NOT think the Jazz would be a
good option, but I wish Jimmer success where ever he lands, and I'd love to see
him prove the critics wrong.
So, why did you use the misnomer "progressive" about all that?
Jimmer is soft on defense and does not have the toughness or tenacity that Danny
Ainge had. Sure he broke his records but Ainge got the Cougars further.
Listen to what Dan Patrick had to say on his radio show today. Thoughtful and
void of any harshness, except for his colleagues Colin Cowherd and Rick Reilly.
In it he chastizes these two morons for being contrarian merely to sell their
column, not for journalistic objectivity. People underestimated John Stockton
when he was drafted and they've had to eat that crow ever since. They said
Steve Nash was to small, Joe Montana didn't have the arm strenght, Charles
Barkley was too short, Steve Young was just a left handed running back etc, and
so on and so forth. These are just words written by men who were once the kids
standing on the fringes of the game wanting oh so badly to join in but lacked
the courage and talent. A lot like Hedgehog.
@Hedhog, you and Mr. Rick Reilly are twins, you never have anything good to say.
I used to read SI faithfully years ago. Rick Reilly wrote some very entertaining
columns. I think with this one, Reilly was trying to be funny but missed the
mark because he got a little too personal with the Bible comments and Bourbon
St. strippers. But the part about being able to sin by osmosis in New Orleans
made me laugh.Too bad we all can't let #32 have a few weeks' rest to
finish up school and prepare for the draft. Let's just see how things work out
instead of predicting and arguing about something that hasn't happened yet.Good luck, Mr. Fredette.
Great article, Dick: Reilly is clearly past his prime, and I'm glad you pointed
out some of the patterns. Very interesting and enlightening.
'90CougarI read In Stitches post and he said "physical"
advantage. Being more mature is great, but doesn't make up for not being in Div.
I shape when the season starts or for having battled amoebas etc. As far as
maturity, how is it much different than those parents who don't start their sons
in school until they are 6 so they will be bigger? I've known plenty of folks
who do that. Also, with this "maturity" of returned
missionaries at BYU comes extra responsibilities for many that other schools
don't have; namely, marriage and children. Sure you don't have to worry so much
about your player getting into the same kind of trouble, but then again if they
are living the honor code you wouldn't anyway.As another poster
commented, if it were such an advantage more schools would find ways to
replicate it (i.e. peace corps etc).
Anyone notice that 90 Cougar never says anything positive about BYU or BYU fans.
Supposedly he's a Cougar but he spends all of his time trying to call the other
Cougars to the carpet. Me thinks he is a troll in cat clothing.
It's articles like this that show we LDS might just have a little bit of a
persecution complex. If Jimmer Fredette doesn't make it in the NBA, will you
all admit that Rick was right? I didn't think so. If he does do well, will we
have to hear about it for the rest of our lives? Probably. When someone says
something negative about BYU or Jimmer it doesn't necessarily mean they hate
Mormons. Our ancestors got tarred and feathered and chased from their homes,
surely we can take it if one guy says Jimmer may not be at the next level what
he was in college.
Hedgie,Once again thanks for the laughs that is all your post are ever
worth.. By the way how goes the great hunt for the most pathtic job in the NCAA?
Rick Reilly has my support - great article Rick !
So let me get this straight... the way to address this is to now attack
Colorado? Anyway, Reilly wasn't really attacking Fredette nearly as
much as he was going after Jimmer fans who he feels grossly overhype him. That
was his target moreso than Jimmer.
You can bash Reilly all you want, but he makes a great argument.The
great players know how to win when it counts. Jimmer failed in that respect. He
let his own legend get to him. Then the overhyped Jimmer did not "show
up": 37% from the field; 20% from distance; and 6 turnovers. Say what you
want, but Jimmer did not distinguish himself among the great players of the game
because he failed to lead his team to victory when it mattered. Period.
So, all the journalists from the state of Colorado got together, voted that Utah
and Mormons were bad and then wrote accordingly? Yup, sounds like. In other
news, the journalism coalition of North Dakota has moved South Dakota to the top
of its list of bad guys.
Reilly's article is sensationalism. No different than Dick's Jimmer Glossary
article the other day.What's done is done. And
Collinsworth, dang it, where's my pizza!!!
Reilly does what so many others who opine and editorialize do to prove their
point: illustrate the absurd. Even though most Y fans disagree with his take on
Jimmer, it's more tongue in cheek and over the top than a vicious vitriolic
attack. Reilly is one of the few detractors, as Jimmer finishing first in all
america AP voting, and recieving the Oscar Robertson Award attest to.
Woody Paige? Talk about washed up and burned out. His liver is going down for
the count. Who knows what the lefty part of colorado's problem is. These most
"tolerant" of people are the most prejudiced and narrow minded people
around. Free thinking great as long as they agree with you. I have lived
around libs in calif. all my life and it rarely fails to be true.
"Anyway, Reilly wasn't really attacking Fredette nearly as much as he was
going after Jimmer fans who he feels grossly overhype him. That was his target
moreso than Jimmer."Ahmen brother, Ahmen.
Rick Reilly just proves he is small-minded. Scriptures also tells us that
contentionis of the Devil. I wonder how someone can have such hate and vitriol
as a human being.
Two issues with this article:(1) Last week's game was not the worst
of the year for Fredette. For every amazing 14-18 shooting display, he also has
a 12-35 game. That's just how it is for streak shooters.(2) Dick's
persecution complex is huge.
I typically like Dick Harmon but his argument in this article is equally as
ridiculous Reilly's! Just because 3 writers in the last 20 years have written
articles painting BYU or BYU players in a negative light does not mean the nasty
"liberals" from boulder have some personal vendetta against BYU!
People do you seriously believe what Dick Harmon is inferring??? Neither the
media nor the city of Boulder is out to get BYU! From time to time a
reporter will write something negative about your team or your favorite player.
I don't agree with Reilly's article but...brace your self jimmer lovers...a lot
of people doubt his ability to succeed at the next level and think he has flaws
in his game. Personally I am a big BYU and jimmer fan and hope he succeeds in
the NBA! As a BYU fan; however, I get embarrassed every time something like this
comes out and shows how short sighted so many BYU fans can be!
reilly feels lonely and useless...
I thought it was funny. Reilly is a great writer, and this is just a poorly
thought out piece, but I don't think he intended any blood.Besides, most
of what he said was true.Mormons have to step back and not be so
sensitive.If Mormons were better neighbors and legislators, people would
be less likely to take shots at them.
Thanks, Dick. Sounds like you nailed it. When someone writes a nasty,
irrational, hit piece, we must look for reasons beyond the apparent. I think
you did a good job of smoking this one out.
@Lia. I think you are missing the point. This article was not about mormons,
it was about disrespecting a very fine college basketball player and individual,
and then using Jimmers's beliefs to try and authenticate the writer's bias.
@ Liayou said:"Mormons have to step back and not be so
sensitive".Should we just "Put some
ice on it"? Remember that one? LiaWhat's with all
these people who believe Mormons should just sit back and take it. "Don't be so sensitive" "Just relax and accept it"
"You have a persecution complex" blah blah blah No way, "We'll give as good as we get"...Mitt RomneyMormons are not pascifists, you're thinking of other groups.This
latest rant was so agenda driven and biased it must be countered.Seriously, how does a National Sport Writer only see The Jimmer, the very
2010-11 "FACE" of College Basketball just one time? His
own Network featured him constantly. Talk about a Dereliction of Duty.He admits his sloppy research and ignorance and then wants us to value
his opinions?No Lia.....Nobody has to stand still while being
assaulted, verbally, physically or otherwise.
@Lia"If Mormons were better neighbors and legislators, people
would be less likely to take shots at them."I'm sorry that you
apparently don't get along with your neighbors and you don't like the way Utah
is run. Personally, if I disliked where I lived, I would move. But I certainly
wouldn't generalize about millions of people based on my limited experience. And
I definitely wouldn't use that as an excuse to make fun of their religion, etc.
or try to claim that it excuses others from doing so. And I've never met a group
of people who deserved to be mocked as you claim Mormons do. I hope
I am never that intolerant.
Thanks for the back story, very interesting and good to know.
I have enjoyed all the Jimmer publicity because it may be many years before this
happens again. Not everyone has to be a Jimmer fan. Rick Reilly may have had
some low blows, but I don't care. I also think he does not care about any
response from any story, particularly this one.
Oh please! BYU fans think there is a huge conspiracy to bring down their way of
life! Riley has a great argument in 24,25 year olds playing college football.
Can you imagine if Adrian Pettersen played college ball when he was 24? It is an
advantage when the sport centers around strength and speed.Polygamy,
African-Americans, missions... they are all things that people outside of the
Utah culture find strange, deal with it. I am from an LDS family and
"get" that our culture has some weird things about it, as well as good
things. The point of this artice is trying to make is that BYU fans are
"victims" because a writer was unimpressed with the Jimmer... Wah...
Bluto,"What's with all these people who believe Mormons should
just sit back and take it."Please tell me you're kidding! I
know this sounds very paternalistic, but "What did they teach you in Sunday
School?"I'm not familiar with the Book of Mitt, so I don't know
if the quote you gave was taken out of context. I do know that I haven't found
a footnote in my Quad that says the "Sermon on the Mount doesn't apply
where BYU athletics are concerned."I believe Reilly went for
laughs, and crossed a line (probably several). Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he does
have animosity for Mormons.Either way, I believe the best response
is the same - do nothing.
Looks like Reilly got exactly what he wanted, to rile up an entire fan base and
bring more attention to himself.
Are BYU fans guilty of the overhype heaped on Jimmer? I don't think so. It was
fueled by the media, which went National. It didn't really start to get crazy
until ESPN started going crazy with it. They had a "Jimmer Watch"
during SportsCenter where they'd update BYU games several times to see how well
The Jimmer was doing. While doing highlights of other games, even NBA games,
they'd say things like "and so-and-so shoots it from Jimmer length".
Rick Reilly's own employer was more guilty than anyone in this overhype. So
please, Hedghogs and the like, don't start putting this on the fans. The
national media has been telling us for a while now what we'd already suspected,
that he's pretty amazing.
I thought Reily's article was funny, just like I, the black community, and the
nation thought that Don Imus's "Nappy headed Hoes" comment was funny.
Stereotypes often are.
The story isn't about Jimmer being an overrated player at BYU. Its about him not
being a great pro player. Jimmer looked like Allen Iverson in the "big
game" 30somthing percent from the field and no points in the final 4 min.
When a BYU fan compares Jimmer to Pistol-Pete and John Stockton I
cringe. Push your lips together next time someone asks you how good Jimmer is.
"I believe Reilly went for laughs"Really '90Cougar? Who's
laughing? Obviously not the people poked in the eye.I'll quote this
again..."All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that
good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke.Again, I'm not calling
Reilly evil but let's be honest, the article though written for entertainment
was carefully and thoughfully written for specific purposes.Would
any decent person write an article like this? The guy showed his 'true'
colors.I'll be tolerant up to a point, but after that it becomes
sammyg,I'm Mormon too. I'm not laughing at what Reilly said, but I
don't feel "poked in the eye" either. I'm just rolling my eyes at his
article, and even more at some of the comments I'm reading.You're
not calling Reilly "evil," but you have no reservation throwing him in
the waste-bin reserved for "not decent people." Nice.I'm
sorry to hear that your tolerance has been exceeded.
'90Cougar... so I take it you seek after humor of this type, interesting.I can take a joke like anyone else, but you are in the minority for not
feeling some 'eye pain' from the comments on this thread.I have no
reservation for calling things like they are. If 'brother' Reilly would like to
open up a channel so decent dialogue can be shared, then great.But as the
inflamer he truly is, he sits behind a shield, and CHOOSES to write the way he
does. My tolerance has only been exceeded to point where I choose to
discuss it on these boards. Obviously yours has been tweeked to that point as
well, to defend his writing style as humor. Interesting position... for a
Mormon.I'm not not critizing him as a human, just his writing
ability. This style of writing in the context of what many of us are
interpreting has a name. It's called bigotry, not humor. Mr.
Harmon's article clearly outlines the pattern. I just fail to see the humor in
all of it.Just to be sure, my dtr-in-law has a BYU English degree,
wonder what she would say?
'90Cougar... I know you don't seek after Reilly's type of humor and you clearly
stated that you're not laughing at his article.I understand your
level of tolerance might be different than mine. Sorry my last post got the
better of my emotions.
Interesting how someone who calls themself "'90 Cougar" always takes
the position of criticism when it come to BYU or their fans.
I am Mormon and I am an Aggie first, a Ute second, and only root for BYU every
20 years. That being said, Reilly's Jimmer article was ridicious. Reilly's
article today about the kid from Butler was all about what kind of a good kid he
is, how he's kind of goofy, etc. It was a nice feel good article, which is what
articles about law-abiding college athletes should be - give us some insight
that maybe others haven't seen, make the kid real, show us his warts. My problem
with Reilly's article on Jimmer was that he ripped the kid a new one as if
Jimmer was asking for fortune and fame. The day after the article Dan Patrick
ripped Reilly a new one for many of the same reasons people here are - it was
unfair to rip on a college athlete, Jimmer didn't ask to be the face of college
bball 2011, Jimmer had 1 off night and you can't judge his season on one night,
and the religious bigotry was obvious. Dan Patrick made those same points,
they're good enough for me.
Jimmer..... Thanks man! I love the game, but over the last few years I have lost
a desire to even watch it. There is to much ego, and money involved and a lot of
the players think they are above everything (LeBron). I was not a BYU fan until
you came along and until the school stood up to thier word with the honor code.
They stand for something a lot bigger than sports. If you read this, thank you
man. Your an inspiration. Please stay humble, and know this jimmied fan's
favorite NBA team is the one you will play for! Can't wait to buy your jersey
for me and my future son. God Speed! And for all you negative morons......
it's been a real treat watching you play college basketball and seeing you on
I find it facinating that the BYU fans act so suprised that someone would poke
fun at us Mormons. You can't tell me that LDS people walking down Burbon Street
with all the drinking, wild women, vomit smell, and loud music that doesn't make
for a hillarious image.BYU, WAH.........
sammyg,Thank you. Trust me, I've let my "emotions get the
better of me" in some of my posts.
I find interesting Dick Harmon's assertion that Boulder, Colorado is a hotbed
for anti-Mormon sentiment, incubated in the hands of influential people with
platforms for "distribution". Dick presented thought-provoking
evidence of this. I also find it interesting that the University of Colorado was
the launch pad of Parker and Stone, the South Park creators, who seem to take
particular delight in lampooning the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
on that show and elsewhere.
With me living in the SEC country and team in the SEC would have loved to have
Jimmer that is Includes KY BTW GO big Blue or Fl or any other SEC team. SO
Reiley can u smell what the Jimmer is Cooking, also He is Jelious because he
will soon make more then Reiley ever thought of.
My problem with the Reilly piece is that it just doesn't go away. ESPN left it
up for an unusual amount of time, and it is still fairly prominent now. Reilly
was over the top and unduly critical, but that's his right. But has ESPN no
other columnists to highlight for nearly two weeks?
paranoid nonsense. reading both articles displays who overdosed on vitriol.
Woody Paige is William Shakespeare compared to Reilly, who barely merits ten
seconds if not for his prestige & platform. For 30 years I've sat
dumbfounded as his honors & awards piled up; it simply beggars belief.
There's no there there, like if Vince Carter were named MVP ten straight
seasons.I have never met a sports fan who likes Reilly, or read
anything on a sports forum praising him, or heard a respected younger
sportswriter name him as an influence. Neither Jason Whitlock or Bill Simmons
have much use for him. Emperor's new shopping mall, I guess.It's
just Reilly trolling, zoobs, in his usual lazy self-plagiarizing/parodying way,
don't sweat it. Jimmer ain't Maravich (lol), Bird (LOL!) or maybe even Redick,
but NOBODY in the NBA takes Reilly seriously, unless John Elway just bought the
I don't even know how to really respond to this thing, other than to say the
writer seems over-sensitive and seems to have been harboring this conspiracy
theory for twenty years. The topic is a bit sensitive since it touches on
religion.I do find it pretty laughable that he thinks that there is
some sort of vast anti-BYU conspiracy and bias out of the Denver media due to
the local support of CU, it's liberal, hippie agenda, and some sort of misguided
jealousy of BYU's success (uh...BYU is barely on the radar of most CU fans
unless they were playing CSU or Air Force). Hell, CU barely makes it on the
radar of many of the local sports media, and we certainly don't have very many
representatives amongst them.
To then try and attribute every imagined slight to BYU and the Mormon religion
over the past 25 years by Denver sportswriters to the existence of the
University of Colorado and its reputation as a liberal community seems
absolutely ridiculous to me. While Reilly is a CU alumni, neither Paige or
Marriotti that he also singles out have any relation to school beyond covering
it as a part of the State and metro area sports scene. He also seems to be
painting CU, its alumni, and the community of Boulder with a similar
stereotypical brush that he's accusing the Denver sportswriters of using. I grew
up a conservative kid, and when I attended CU I certainly didn't become a dirty,
pot smoking hippie...or a religious bigot...simply because I attended the
school, and neither were the vast majority of the students I attended school
with.The author also conveniently leaves out many times when BYU received
plenty of support in Colorado; look no further than a few weeks ago at the Pepsi
Center for the first two rounds of the NCAA tournament. Pro-Jimmer articles
were EVERYWHERE in the Denver Post.
I went back and read the Reilly article this is in response to, and it was
critical of Fredette, particularly his performance in his last game. But I don't
think there was anything in the article that seemed particularly out of bounds.
There was one shot at the image of BYU fans wandering around Bourbon Street. I
do find it interesting that he perceives the criticism of the hyper man-love
hype surrounding Fredette as a direct attack on the school, and apparently
Mormonism in general. The article was mostly a critique of the hype around him
and the comparison people are trying to make between him and his game to some of
the historically great white players (we could talk about why people are mostly
comparing him to white players, but that is a different conversation).Lastly, it's not like Reilly's making up any of the stuff he uses against BYU:
is Jimmer a subpar defender? Does Jimmer take a lot of shots to get his points?
Is the BYU football team older than the majority of other teams?
Hey Utes fans, remember we hate Rick Reilly more than you could ever imagine.
Remember when that news report about football players raping girls came out five
years ago? Well, none of them ever pressed charges and their stories were later
exposed as lies. Want to know who perpetuated these lies even though he had no
evidence?:Rick ReillyIn fact, you can attribute all of
our shortcomings to that clown.