It is interesting to note that Senator Howard TAX Guardian is not going to vote
for repeal. From his years fighting for the side he is representing, I bet he
has either used GRAMA or since he has inside information, ethical, I am sure, he
is one that would not want the HB477 to really be the governing law. He or his
people would not be able to gain the access to public records and the process.
I am grateful for Senator Jones being with the other Senators who were ones that
made up their mind on this Bill in two hours of process. Senator Waddoups
believes that is long enough on such an important process as access to
government records. He indicated he has heard enough in six years to know it
need these kinds of changes, even though he also knew that the General Counsel
had it a month and probably wasn't much behind this bill. Senator Waddoups can
still make his deal by not getting a vote from the Senators this week, so he
slows down the process and hopes the people forget about this shortcutting and
shortchanging of their Constitutional responsibility.
I think in a previous election a great issue was made about
"flip-flopping" (regardless of the reason) and now it seems the thing
to do. I agree that 477 was a bad bill and should be changed, but it sure seems
that this is an illustration of flip-flopping.We used to call it
changing your mind, or getting additional information, but in this case maybe it
was just "bad judgement" to vote for it in the first place.If they are concerned that their non-public phone calls (like from the spouse
on plans for the evening) maybe they should carry one cell for personal calls,
another for public business. All it would take to "punish" is one
person to say Rep. XXX gave me his personal number so we could chat. With an
idea like that it is a good thing we don't still have the big old
"bricks" for cell phones.My boss once said, "It's my
desk, my phone, my paper, my car, my gas & my time, Don't use them for
anything else! That should apply to all public
The question should not be as to Who, the lobbyist was that pressured Dougall to
author/sponsor this bill, but, it should be WHY Dougall thought the bill had any
merit or integrity? Mr. Dougall's thought processes are seriously flawed at
best, as evidenced by his actions on this and 116.
To Morgan Duel | 11:43 a.m. March 23, 2011 It is the media that
keeps the legislators honest and keeps the people informed of what's going on.
As can be seen from the way HB477 was handled (ditto the voucher law from a
couple of years past as another example), the legislators were doing their best
to shove this legislation down the throats of the people of Utah without their
even being aware that they were being force-fed. We HAVE to know what's going
on, and defeating laws like HB477 is the only way we can keep transparency in
government.Kudos to Mr. Wright, and the alert citizens of Utah, for
keeping this in the public eye. Good work!
To: Morgan Duel | 11:43 a.m. March 23, 2011Taylorsville, UT As
much as some complain about the media, they are most responsible for the fact
that we know what went on with HB477. Thank goodness for the fact
that we have a free press; it not, we'd have never known what these legislators
were doing.I say, "Thank you very much, Doug Wright. Keep up
the good work!"
I wonder if HB 477 would be such a big deal if the media did not feel slighted.
KSL had a huge push on this issue this morning with Doug Wright leading the
charge.But maybe it is time to look at the individuals in the
legislature and see the problems and how to resolve them.Maybe we
should vote them all out.
New media has a loooooooong memory. And it's not expensive to get the word out.
Beware, you politicians. It's a new world out there.
Corruption in government and a push for government secrecy go hand in hand don't
I agree, the only solution is absolute and complete repeal of HB477 AND then
enact a real ethics code for Utah politicians!
With HB477's repeal, these reps and senators also need to fix the problem with
their lack of legislative ethics.Not only do they want to conceal
their behind-closed-doors activities, they don't want to be held to a code of
Sen Waddoups, after pushing HB 477 through the process quite rapidly, now wants
to take the necessary time to ponder the ramifications of repealing this bill.
He also wants to have a replacement bill ready to pass when HB 477 is repealed
(if it is). Why the rush is his and other Senator's stance. It is interesting
that now they want to "study" all the ramifications of the repeal of
HB 477 but were not willing to properly vett the bill before it was passed...not
enought time then it appears. What will the replacement bill be one must ask.
Very likely more of the same...a way to hide or cover future actions of the
legislature they don't want public. Why do they need this sort of cover? They
already have closed coccus meetings where much of the legislative business is
conducted before it comes to the floor of either house. What more do they need.
The privacy "issues" of individual legislators is a "smoke
screen" for other intents of a bill like 477 or whatever will replace it.
We need sunshine, transparency; now and always. Just repeal 477 and move on in
sunshine and transparency!
All Dems for repeal- and all Utah county and south and basically Davis county
and North Rep.s for repeal- hmmmm makes you wonder about those SLC Reps. that
are not for repeal? What is their issue or their sense of safety in opposing
All citizens need to contact all state senators today - not just the one from
your district -and let them know for certain that the people expect a repeal of
477 and no replacement is needed. Don't just talk about it - do something about
it. Make the contacts today.
'Almost enough Senate votes committed to repeal HB477' - Title
Almost? Almost?? I have yet to see any topic in Utah
that has created such a groundswell. People from EVERY aspect of Utah living
agree on this. Democrats (Yes, they exist in Utah), Republicans,
Independants, conservatives and liberals, I've seen all come to a common ground
on this topic. HB477 is a bad bill. However because that
is SUCH a political majority in this state, there is still a QUESTION wether or
not HB477 will be repealed. Very sad really. When ALL of
us can agree on something, it still seems to be in debate. Send the
message Republicans. For all this talk of 'goverment infringment' Republicans
gave us the Patriot Act, which allows search of property without warrent... the TSA, which allows search of person... and now HB477
which DENIES accountability by Utah legislature by denying information about
their actions. I would say this is unaccetpable, but no one cares
what a Democrat thinks in Utah. And apparently, they don't care what
Republicans think either. Because the legislature is COUNTING on Republican vote
apathy... to do what they want. And not what the voters
Gov Herbert and the Legislature made a big mistake in passing HB477. They
simply must admit the mistake and reinstate GRAMA, as it was, before they made
the error. Senate President Waddoups continues to fail to admit the mistake.
It is clear that he, and others like him, must be removed from office. The
sooner the better.
the only reason they would consider a special session is they are afradi of the
groundswell. The govenor has already buckled on this one but he was happy to
sign it into law. He has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar and he is
making the best of it.The amnesty bill now has been declared illegal
so it makes me wonder why the big push at the end of the session to push these
two untoward bills through in spite of public outcry against both.Do
the legislators understand they are to make laws that help the people not the
government?It amazes me how soon the reality leaves those who are
elected. They think they are better and are able to see further than people who
elected them. At the end of the day we want to be able to see what you are
doing so more messes like this don't happen and we don't want illgals for
neighbors. There are laws in place for those who choose to abide by
them and we have a court system for those who choose not to abide by them.
I agree with Urquart:"This is bizarre that we have a special
session called with four days' notice for a bill that won't go into effect for
three months," he said. "It must be good PR, it must be good press,
but it's bad governance."This is bad governance. The bill
needs to be scrapped and they need to start again from the beginning.
While they are at it, they need to repeal HB 116, the guest worker bill which to
TOTALLY unfair to all those in Utah who are currently unemployed, and to those
individuals outside our country who are waiting in line to work here legally.
Come on people, this really isn't that complicated. First, they stuffed this
bill through the late sessions, even with plenty of concerns from the public,
because they do not fear voting repercussions. Second, they may or may not
overturn the bill because they truly do not fear voting repercussions.This is Utah. If you put Hillary Clinton on the ticket with an R by her name,
she'd cruise to victory. Lawmakers aren't stupid, they know how Utah voters
vote. They walk up to the ballot screen, select the Straight Party - R option,
and trot out of the voting precinct. For all the local concern over
this bill currently, if you believe Republicans in Utah will go to the ballot in
2012 and vote for a Democrat over any of the Republicans who supported this
bill, or any of the other wacko bills that were passed this year, you must be
really new to the state. Just won't happen.
I'd like to know more behind their reasoning for passing such legislation to
begin with, but you have to be suspicious whenever government officials want to
hide what they're saying or doing. I can see how open records laws can be abused
for political reasons, but that should be addressed without creating an
environment where elected officials can hide inappropriate behavior on their
It's pathetic that our "leaders" could not see this coming. It isn't
like they tried to implement the new law and found it unworkable. The stench of
the legislature hadn't even cleared the hall and they KNEW they had made a
mistake.New Coke comes to Utah politics.
They would vote to not repeal? It does make one wonder why? And please don't
talk about privacy issues here. These are publicly elected officials using
communication devices bought and paid for on the public dime. As a school
official when I use my computer bought and paid for by the state I use it
knowing all of my communications can be accessed by my superiors. In this case
taxpayers are their employers. If they are truly in favor of transparency then
be transparent. I hope the DNews people serving on this new commission prevent
any restrictions on the public's right to know.
"Senate President Michael Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, said it is "very
possible" that the Senate will take no action Friday"Interesting response, senators. Go ahead, fail to vote according
to the wishes of your constituents (as elected legislators are elected to do)
and face the next election!"Uh, duh. How come I lost my seat.
I can't figure it out."And that would be right. Some elected
legislators just can't figure it out.
Who was the lobbyists that pressured John Dougal to run HB477?Who
was the client who paid the lobbyist?