The two top crime cities in the United States are Detroit Michigan and Flint
Michigan. Neither of these cities have significant numbers of undocumented
immigrants, and the level of crime is close to being inversely related to the
number of immigrants in a neighborhood in both these cities.
My ancestors barely learned English for a whole generation. Up until World War
I many public schools in the US offered instuction in German. There were
multiple Polish newspapers published in the United States as well as the Yiddish
Theatre. A great portion of immigrants never learned English. Those ranting against immigration sound exactly like the no-nothings of the
1850s or the Nativists of the 1910s.
RRB's claims are rubbish. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has
clearly stated it supports the principals of the Utah Compact. To claim the
Church has done anything else is a boldfaced lie.
What a mistake UT, 2.2 billion Ga , 10.5 billion Calif. the amounts spent on
hosting illegal immigrants in those states.Prison pop. in Ga 40% is
illegals, teen pregency up 32% most illegals,no other country allows criminals
to walk its streets having no idea who they are (gangs, rapist,murders) with no
ID, cost billions to its citizens, able to drive on its roads with no
license,free education, health, welfare, and majority don't speak the
language,and able to send over 70 million out of country back home, home values
drop 4% on avg. in those areas and pay no taxes.
It is interesting to me that the church and or churches have taken a stance on
this issue. Religious institutions have a unique perspective on immigration
because they are given the chance to actually meet the immigrant and realize
they are not taking away from our society but actually in a very real sense
adding to it. They buy our food, gas, housing, etc. In many instances they are
paying taxes as well. Most would sell their soul to be here in some legal
capacity. Immigrants do not enjoy looking over their shoulder every minute of
every day. But that is better than where they came from. Are they to blame for
high health care prices, rising taxes, and longer wellfare lines? They are
nominally to blame but the real blame rests squarely on self serving politics
and unethical labbyists and policies. I am suprised at the narrow views of the
readers of this site. Look at the big picture and spend your time and efforts on
issues that truly affect our country.
I have been following the Utah immigration compact and reading most anything I
can on the subject including the comments made by some of the people on this
website. I am an attorney in Arizona and see first hand what aggressive
legislation does on this topic. I would encourage the readers of this site and
citizens of the U.S. in general to get educated on the matter before forming an
opinion. Propaganda and press has made the immigration topic a scapegoat for the
real problems we are facing. The reality is there will always be illegal
immigration. We cannot stop it. The majority of the people coming here illegally
are simply wanting to work and provide for their families. They are doing jobs
that no other american is willing to do. Of course there are bad seeds coming
too but what Utah has done is put the issue squarely where the problem
belongs...to the federal government. There is no workable way an immigrant can
come to the U.S. legally right now. So, encourage to close the borders, get a
program so people can come here to work and be accounted for, kick out the bad.
What ever happen to the seprate of State and Church? I for one say that if they
are here anyway but the right way then send them back to were they came from,
and don't let the church have any say in the matter. They take jobs from people
who have worked all their life and all the churches want to do is keep them
here, make the churches that back theses bill pay for the up keep of them.
Please don't put it on the taxpayers back.
@Osgarth This is a black and white issue Crossing the border without
authorization is a crime. The statute reads: 'Any alien who enters or attempts
to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by
immigration officers . . . shall, for the first commission of any such offense,
be fined under title 18 (of the U.S. Code) or imprisoned not more than 6 months,
or both.If these wretched masses are truly "yearning to be
free" then let them stay in there own country and overthrow their
@Osgarth My ancestors, like the millions of others of LEGAL immigrants that
built this nation, came here legally . . . they were forbidden by law from being
on the public dole, they learned English, they were net contributors to their
new country not net detractors, in short they complied fully with title 18. The
people you are talking about deserve no more humanity than does the burglar in
the night or the armed robber on the street; their children have no more claim
to citizenship than do the children of the bank robber have a claim to the money
that the robber steals from the bank. Let me make this point clear . . . I
welcome all LEGAL immigrants; their cultures, their hard work, their
innovations, their respect of our laws, and their contributions are what made
this nation great but those that are here ILLEGALLY are just plan criminals and
should not be afforded the rights of citizens or those extended to those here
legally but are deserving only of the punishment afforded to any other common
@Osgrath I can't speak for all the right but I can speak for me and welcome an
intelligent dialog. I'm willing to bet that your ancestors came here under the
laws concerning immigration that existed at the time they immigrated. The reasons illegals are here have no more relevance than do the reasons any
other criminal commits his/her crime, if asked every criminal will claim a good
reason for what he/she has done.
Mr. Governor, please consider what the voters did to the RINOS Chris Cannon and
Bob Bennett when they supported illegals over their own constituents. DO NOT
SIGN HB116 OR WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE.
J Adams, when you decide to make the move, might I suggest Mexico for your
country of choice
No, HB116 is NOT "Utah's answer to immigration reform." It is NOT the
will of the people of Utah at large. No wonder it was pushed through at the last
minute, literally in the dark of night.
It looks more like the bill was meant to kill E-verify and keep the drivers
privilege card program. Once it's killed, those parts are dead also. E-verify
was one of Herberts points. #3We did not find a solution, we gave
other states a way to kill enforcement bills.
HB166 makes no sense. If the governor signs it, and if the Federal government
turns over immigration to Utah, it clearly has not been thought out. A person needs a drivers privilege card for a guest worker pass. They have to
have a job lined up, one that is not wanted by Americans, or can't be done by
one, and their pay has to be equal to others in the area doing the same job. 20%
of the people here illegally work in agriculture, ranching, etc. The rest are
doing jobs like construction. In order for an employer to hire a person under
this program, they have to make sure that no citizens will do the job. Will our
state enforce their own law, or face multiple lawsuits? This could be costly.
And if the business owner has to hire a citizen first, if he's
dishonest, he will just hire a person here illegally that never signed up. This
could put everyone who signs up, out of work, unless they work in agriculture.
And if they are out of work, their guest worker pass expires. This is a mess.
Obviously open and respectful dialog is not something the political right seeks
nor wants: cut and dried, black and white, and we are dealing with objects, not
real human beings. We expect people who might be functionally illiterate, living
within a corrupt system, knowing nothing of the fine points of the political
process (rarely available to them in their home country) to work effectively
with the system without any help. The percentage of criminals among them
may be slightly higher than among native Americans, but the laws on criminality
are clear: anybody convicted of a felony needs to be punished according to law,
and every paroled alien criminal should be automatically deported, too. But punishing those huddled masses yearning to breathe free because of the
criminals is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I guarantee that my
immigrant ancestors, one group in 1708 from the German Palatinate, and another
from Northern Ireland and Scotland in 1864, did not go through legal channels to
come here. Likewise, many that came without papers in the past two decades have
added a lot to our society and economy.
Of course California and other states are interested in what Utah does. They
hope all the illegals in their state will rush to Utah and save them from
financial collapse. And of course, Utah will go bankrupt!
In my view, which spans more decades than I'd care to admit, the "federal
problem" isn't illegal immigration, it's the US Congress. How many decades
have we been without an energy policy, federal meddling in education without
compensation, financial problems that cripple the entire nation, open-ended wars
that go on and on (more than just one or two over the years--Korea, Vietnam,
Gulf, Iran, Afghanistan, etc), trade inbalances, government health care, etc as
well as immigration. Why do we keep sending these folks back? And when we
finally decide enough-is-enough, what a hue and cry from those who are let go!!!
It's just amazing!
Allow one group to break the law with a pass? This idea is a monument to
stupidity and insanity . How can anyone think this somehow makes sense? Can I
get a pass to break tax laws while we wait for tax law reform? This stupid law
will never pass the legal test and Herbert and the others who choose to pander
on this will commit political suicide. This will be the biggest mistake they
ever make. Illegals are going home sooner or later, the will of the majority is
strongly against them. We are in charge they are not.
I have friends from many cultures. I believe that the illegal and legal
immigrants, that are pushing to remake the laws of the United States, should
follow the example of Egypt and worked to Free all the people in their home
government. I believe that we are all children of God and deserve to be free to
govern ourselves and to be treated equally. I strongly resent immigrants that
expect be given special privileges that taxpayers have to pay for.
Utahns were the victims of a well orchestrated plan. Starting with the Utah
compact that promoted amnesty, the only bump came when the LDS church did not
sign it. Those involved just keep telling people that they endorsed it. Senator
Robles guest worker plan appeared, but her ties to Mexico made it to
controversial, so Senator Bramble stepped in with his "comprehensive"
solution. After he took the heat, he passed it off to Reid and Wright. The only people who will gain from this is the Salt Lake Chamber of commerce.
If it's vetoed or killed in court, it kills E-Verify enforcement. That should
make the chamber happy. If it goes through, the chamber gets taxpayer subsidized
labor. Utah's compact was all about greed. It hurts the Utah
families that have to pay for it with lost jobs, homes, wages. It's a new low
for Utah's business controlled Republican party. We want
enforcement, we don't appreciate you giving away our jobs.
The Latino "community" never wants to talk about the murders, rapes,
and violent crimes their fellow compatriots perpetrate against Utah and its
residents. They never want to talk about deportation of criminals. They never
want to talk about the legal immigrants who swore an oath to the United States,
learned English, and followed the rules. These individuals are expendable to
Archie and Luz. We do not want amnesty, but we do want laws to apply to
everyone. The Latino leaders seem to want the laws selectively applied. The Utah
Compact does not address the very concerns the silent majority has about
immigration reform. The feds are willing accomplices in their lack of
priorities, and the state of Utah is trying to please everyone. The solution is
not that difficult. Heavy enforcement of existing laws, employers should pay
heavy fines (say 10% of yearly gross profits per working illegal found on site),
and a reasonable pathway for non-criminals aliens. This should include oaths of
allegiance and complete severance of all ties to foreign countries. This seems
Instereo 12th Article of Faith.We believe... ...in HONORING,
OBEYING, and SUSTAINING the LAW.Right now, it is illegal, so it is a
CRIME.Try to get around that one.
Talking about Utahans and illegal immigration, reminds me of this movie.The movie "Battle Los Angeles" is unrealistic because
America's army goes all out to defend L.A. If aliens really attacked L.A.,
Americans would say "Take it." Like it or not, I
still say "REPORT THEM" when you see them every time, let ICE cuff
them and deport them all.
Those state Senators and Representatives who have voted for HB116 will pay the
penalty, by being turned out of office, next election cycle as will the Governor
if he signs this bad bill into bad law.In my opinion there are four
types of people supporting the cause of HB 116, illegal aliens, and "open
borders" (1) self-serving politicians seeking to pander to prospective
(hopefully grateful) future Hispanic voters to maintain their power (2) greedy
employers seeking cheap "economic slave" labour to increase their
profits (3) individuals or organizations who profit from their situations and
(4) good intentioned people who are being used as pawns of the others. The three former types are ingenuous in their claims to compassion and their
opposition to xenophobia and racism which are only masks for their greed and
Many Utahans, evangeliscals, LDS, and GOP members make a big deal out of
"moral" issues implying they are following "Christian"
values or even boldly asking "What would Jesus Do?" Yet, they forget
the very same God or ask the very same question of "What would Jesus
do" when it comes to immigration. Personally I think the sooner
we treat all humans as human now matter where they came from and the sooner we
realize this whole world is connected and problems solved in one area are
problems created in another and the sooner we get rid of the partisan politics
we have in our state/nation, the better off we will all be.
Thank-you Utah. I am overwhelmed with joy with your decision. I APPLAUD YOU!
I am very offended that the two guest worker program bills were passed. I will
personally campaign against the Senator from my district who proposed one of
these bills. She may be happy about the outcome but myself and many other
voting citizens are very upset. From someone who has been displaced from
construction work by illegal immigrants, it is very hard for me to consider
supporting someone who does not support me. I am 59 years old and have no other
training and I am now unemployed and unable to find any work. First time in 35
years. Pretty sad for a Viet Nam vet to be replaced by illegal immigrants. I
will vow to support anyone who opposes the legislator(s) who introduced and
supported the 2 bills that will be found to be illegal laws themselves.
My senator an representative don't give a darn what the majority wants: tough
crackdown and deportation of illegals. The "utah solution" is a total
travesty and an insult to the citizens. After trying so hard to have the
legislature do the right and honnorable thing it is now clear to me that the
only recourse left is to move to another country. BTW, I don't expect it to be
better there, but that's the point. I don't expect to be betrayed by the
One very significant way to bring the budget under control is to eliminate
social spending for illegal aliens.We must enforce our borders and
we must also have a national guest worker program. We must also realize that
many of these illegal aliens are good and decent people. Here is a solution
that I think would satisify the enforcement only crowd (I consider myself part
of this group).1. Offer a large reward to people, including illegal
aliens, who turn in employers who employ illegal aliens without engaging in due
diligence to keep them out.2. Make it illegal to rent housing to illegal
aliens. The penalty? The landlord has to refund all the rent.This
will set illegal aliens and their employers and land lords at each others
throats.Don't enforce these provisions until 6 months after the law
is passed to give all the opportunity to settle their affairs.Start
a guest worker program at the same time you begin enforcing the above provision
with the understanding that the guest workers stay here for no more than 3 to 5
years, a background check will be done and their children born here are NOT
Sorry Utah, "we the real people" are "NOT" going to support,
just deport these illegal immigration's, that's our reform Utah. With our national debt poised to reach its $14.3 trillion limit in the very
near future, taxpayers expect Congress to work together to reduce wasteful and
unnecessary spending and be more vigilant about how we spend public funds. The
American people want Congress to deal with the tough issues of cutting spending,
and almost every member of the Senate has agreed that we must address our fiscal
situation immediately. While there are certainly many issues that
warrant the Senate's consideration, we feel that the Senate must not debate and
consider bills at this time that do not affirmatively cut spending, directly
address structural budget reforms, reduce governments role in the economy so
businesses can create jobs, or directly address this current financial crisis.
The American people resoundingly rejected the way the Senate waited
until Christmas Eve as a mechanism to force hurried debate on President Obama's
massive health care legislation. Voting to proceed to another legislative
measure effectively runs away from the central issues of spending and debt and
repeats that flawed process.
ILLEGAL is a crime, THE END, if our State Officials, refuse to call a spade, a
spade, then we MUST replace them!