Quantcast
Utah

Why scholar thinks Mormons should support Ground Zero Mosque

Speaker at UVU says minority religions need to back each other

Comments

Return To Article
  • one day... South Jordan, UT
    March 17, 2011 1:53 p.m.

    to...I M LDS 2 | 2:52 p.m. March 14, 2011
    "9/11 was most definitely a religious AND political AND military statement"

    from who? Muslims only?

    9/11 was so bizarre, sad but bizarre. 3, 4 airplanes flying around everywhere without further action to avoid what happened? c'mon we are USA, and we were not able to avoid that tragic event?

    This is a free country, we can build a temple, mosque, any building to worship, no damage...no problem.

    Don't blame the Muslims for 9/11, blame your government! we trained them, we gave them guns and money and after that we call them the enemy, no marl for that

  • rightascension Provo, UT
    March 17, 2011 7:05 a.m.

    RE: After he earned degrees at Uof U and UCBerkley, he taught economics at BYU,

    His liberalism so appalled Ernest Wilkensen, Wilkensen commissioned students to spy on him and report back. He resigned from BYU when the Spy Ring went public. After his resignation, He started his research /polling organization and within a couple of years became the pollster for Ronald Reagan's campaigns, Governor Reagan's administration, and then the Reagan Presidential administration.

    Apparently Wilkensen had rather strict definitions of what it meant to be a liberal.

  • amst plano, tx
    March 16, 2011 8:36 a.m.

    Different issue completely. This is about Muslims being able to build a mosque in new york city in the united states of America. Mecca is in a different country with different laws. Thus it is a issue over American law affecting Americans don't change the subject.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    March 16, 2011 12:20 a.m.

    How about building a Mormon Temple in Mecca?

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    March 15, 2011 10:21 p.m.

    I am a committed, believing Latter-day Saint. I believe that there is no justifiable position Latter-day Saints can take but to support freedom of religion, including the building of a Muslim community center in New York City.

    I personally know many Muslims. They are not terrorists, and they do not want Sharia law in America. American democracy and freedom is as important to them as it is to Christians, Jews, other religionists, and non-believers.

    Prothero is absolutely right. Latter-day Saints should speak out in favor of the right of Muslims to build where anyone else would be legally allowed to build.

    And I think it is wrong--read that "hypocritical"--to criticize Muslims for the behavior of the crazy element among them without acknowledging the crazy elements among all groups.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    March 15, 2011 8:01 p.m.

    Northstar1.... by what measure did "they win". What objective did they achieve. Are you saying that their ultimate goal was to have their host countries government overthrown? How the heck did they win? And how is this a Victory Mosque?

    Using how Arab tyrants rule their countries should not be the basis for how we run our own. If the Jews have been able to make peace with the German people, surely someone from Kaysville can get over the it. Focus on something more than a once in a life time event.

    Last year over 15,000 people were murdered in this country.... 95,000 women were raped. Why don't you focus your rage on something that happens day in and out in this country. You want to make America safer.... focus on those thing in our own communities that help.

    This irrational fear of muslims is crazy. People who point to muslim scriptures as saying telling muslims they should be violent to other faiths don't know their own scriptures very well. These same edicts are found in Christian scripture too.

    It is very sad so many people choose to live their lives so scared.

  • Janca salt lake city, utah
    March 15, 2011 8:01 a.m.

    JLFULLER writes: "When it comes to Islam, the problem is not faith. The problem is politics. Islam mixes politics and belief into an amalgam that makes it hard to have one without the other. Few condemn Muslims for their particular belief in God even if they call Him by another name. The problem is with those Muslims who put politics before their faith. For Muslims who put faith before politics, I doubt they are the people Congress is concerned with."
    now try this PERFECT FIT:
    When it comes to Mormonism, the problem is not faith. The problem is politics. Mormons(in Utah)mix politics and belief into an amalgam that makes it hard to have one without the other. Few condemn Mormons for their particular belief in God even if they call Him by another name. The problem is with those Mormons who put politics before their faith. For Mormons who put faith before politics, I doubt they are the people Congress is concerned with.
    Now THAT is said perfectly!

  • geezergary Salem, UT
    March 15, 2011 1:01 a.m.

    Wow, what a wonderful idea! This would make us immediately accepted by our evangelical brothers and sisters. In Mitt Romney's book No Apology, he devotes several pages to the threat of Radical Islam. Mitt has done his homework and he understands the threat. As a nation, we fail to confront that it at our peril.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    March 14, 2011 6:01 p.m.

    Somehow, Muslim students manage to attend BYU without causing trouble.
    With only a few exceptions, the vast majority of Muslims living in the U.S. manage to live alongside Christians peaceably.

    Terrorism is not confined to Muslims. Were the IRA Muslim? How about Timothy McVeigh?

    The largest number of Muslims live in Indonesia, India and Pakistan.
    How many resort to terrorism?

    We should build bridges with moderate Muslims, join forces to fight those using terrorist tactics and combat ignorace.

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    March 14, 2011 3:54 p.m.

    the problem with muslims is they still follow all the rules from the old testament. that includes wiping out cities, stoning people to death, death penalty for disobedient sons or wives, etc. At least the jewish and catholic folks stopped following the old testament and just kept the peaceful dogma.

    how do we convince muslims that they don't have to follow the old testament anymore? I figure you all are the people to ask, since you all stopped using it.

    any suggestions? what made you all stop following the old testament rules? if we can come up with a way to convince muslims to stop adhereing to it, we may find peace in our lifetimes.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    March 14, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    sergio,

    Yours is a bad comparison. The proposed "Cordoba House" (also called the Ground Zero Mosque) is at 45 Park Place, the former Burlington Coat Factory building, which is only two blocks, around a corner, from the WTC site.

    Not the same thing at all.

    9/11 was most definitely a religious AND political AND military statement. In America, we separate Church and State. But not in most parts of the Middle East. Caliphs are not only religious leaders, but also political and military leaders as well.

    The "Khalifat Rasul Allah" (Caliphate) is the political successors to the messenger of God (Muhammad), the power and authority of which was transferred to the Turkish Grand National Assembly (by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk). Thus, the powers of the Caliphate have been vested in the Turkish Parliament, which in turn has delegated its authority to various Turkish government institutions. At any time, the Republic of Turkey may decide to reinstate the caliphate, and has the legislative power and also the religious authority to do so.

    Ultimately, there is no distinction between Islamic houses of "worship" (Churches) and non-religious structures.

    Always remember Hagia Sophia and Constantinople.

  • Hugo Stiglitz Ogden, UT
    March 14, 2011 2:07 p.m.

    This is America, we are free. In America, we are free to build any type of building of worship. If its their land and its legal, they can build whatever they want. Sorry folks, I believe in the Constitution and I believe in America. If you dont like freedom and would want others to tell you where to build, go to another country. God bless America.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    March 14, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    Having lived in the middle east for 10 years, mostly in Iran and Saudi Arabia, I believe it will be at least 2,000 more years before a Mormon church is built in either of those countries. And having a taxi driver in Karachi whisper to me that he was a christian and lived in fear of his life didn't help to change my mind. Therefore I will pass on supporting the mosque at ground zero.

  • sergio Phoenix, AZ
    March 14, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    %northstar1; Following your lodgic the Mormon temple in St George would have to be removed because of its proxcimity to the Morning Meadows massacre site.
    9/11 was a political action, not a religious statement.

  • Cherilyn Eagar Holladay, UT
    March 14, 2011 1:11 p.m.

    The issue is one that the LDS faith also faced: making a religion compatible with the rule of law.

    Islamists subscribe to Sharia Law, which is counter to many constitutional principles. Shall we begin with "cruel and unusual punishment?"

    It only takes a small percentage of any group to change the face of society. A good example is in our own history: Only 12% of Americans actively supported the war for independence from Britain

    If Islam wants to become established under Constitutional law, it is going to have to eliminate some of its extremist views found in Sharia law, just as the Mormons had to compromise to receive statehood.

  • northstar1 Kaysville, UT
    March 14, 2011 1:06 p.m.

    Absolutely no bearing whatsoever! The Ground Zero Mosque should NOT be allowed anywhere near the grounds of the tragic event. It would signal to the terrorist perpetrators, and the keen followers of their religion, that they won. Bottom-line: If Christian groups went over to Arab countries and demanded to build a Christian building next to a site with tragic history, they would be jailed, hanged or outright stoned to death. Building a mosque near the 9-11 site is outright provocation at its best and they should not be allowed to rule on this one. Period! Why are people even debating this one.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    March 14, 2011 1:01 p.m.

    Wherever they ban muslims, they will ban Mormons.

    Wherever there is hate for Muslims, there will be hate for Mormons.

    Wherever they take religious freedoms away from Muslims they will take it from Mormons.

    Where they oppose mosques they will oppose Mormon Temples.

    The same people who dislike Muslims are also the same who think Mormons are a cult. Do not stand shoulder to shoulder with intolerance because they will come after you after they get rid of the group currently in their target.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    March 14, 2011 12:49 p.m.

    I am a bit amazed at the comments on here. I shows how very little people know about the history of their own religion. Statements like "muslims mix faith and politics..." well what do you think the early "saints" did? I know, I know, it was different back then because it was the true faith, and so it is an exception.

    When you start casting dispersions at other faiths, you really need to have your facts straight or you really end up looking ignorant. The church has made it very clear that LDS are to grant to all others the same privilage of following their own beliefs, just as we expect to be able to do likewise. We as such, should stand for everyone's right to practice their faith, no matter if we agree with it or not. The government should never be allowed to make members of any faith, as distasteful as one believes that faith to be, feel that they are not allowed to practice their faith at will.

    And to comments such as "in Suadi Arabia we can't preach"... well, get over it. We hold ourselves to the highest standard, not the lowest.

  • Curtis Hight Anchorage, AK
    March 14, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    My relationship with Muslims and everyone else in the world brings me to love my Muslim neighbors, some of whom I attended services with at their local community center last Friday, but also to question Mr. Prothero's paradigms: in January I joined Bahá'í neighbors at a special devotional to pray for Bahá'ís being persecuted in Iran and for peace in the world. I trust that if I read one of Mr. Prothero's books or listened to him lecture that I would find that it was merely the constraints of a newspaper article that made his views appear to me as narrow and misguided.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    March 14, 2011 11:31 a.m.

    DN: why didn't my first comment get posted?

    Did you know?
    It can be said that Iraq was more secular under Saddam than it is now, after the U.S. invasion, BECAUSE the Iraqi Constitution, adopted in 2005, states that no law can be enacted which contravenes Islamic (Sharia) law.

    Regarding the 9/11 community center/mosque, some 9/11 families oppose it while some support it. Bin Laden's goal was to further drive a wedge between the U.S. and Muslims.
    The Prof. is spot on.
    Build the mosque/community center.

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    March 14, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    Those who carried out the Mountain Meadows Massacre are not my brothers, those who participated in that murder burnt there LDS brotherhood card up when they meted out there sentence of death.

    I agree with you LDS Lib from Farmington, terrorism is all the same it targets innocence and commits murder in the name of a twisted and perverted religious or political aims.

    We as free United States Citizens regardless of our political, non-religious or religious beliefs need to see the real motivation behind terror and hate and understand evil and tyranny in whatever form it may take. I personally feel that supporting a Mosque at this location is a provocation of intimidation and is inspired by those who promote disunity and the ideology of 2nd class citizenry of the free Republic of which we stand.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    '...I did not claim to be a conquered person, nor does the pact of Umar suggest that people need to be conquered to have this Pact in effect.' - Big Hapa | 10:45 a.m.

    'One must study for themselves to know the Muslim motivation to have a Mosque, it represents among many things, the Pact of Umar this thousand year old pact allow's a conquered people a choice of conversion to Islam or death.' - Big Hapa | 9:28 a.m.

    Argue with yourself as you wish. I am not needed for that.

    Since we both agree that you are NOT conquered, I wonder why you brought it up. Since, as you say, it is not needed.

    It is possible that you posturing from a point of anger and hostile feelings toward Muslims, but only you can answer that.

    Myself, I do not try to place blame on all for the actions of a few. Otherwise, I would be upset with everyone.

    There are good Muslims, just like good Mormons, etc.

    My name is Pagan. Not my belief. That was your assumption.

    And if you side against tyranny...

    why did America invade Afghanistan?

    Good day.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 14, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    I believe the "LDS" in "LDS Liberal" less and less each time he posts.

    MMM was not a "terrorist actack" by "Radical extremists". It was a part of an ongoing war and motivated by real belief about poisoning. It was also part of the greater attempt to preserve some land for Native Americans. I am surprised liberals do not praise it as a legitimate resistance to the denial of land to Native Americans and the imposition of white rule throughout the country.

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    March 14, 2011 10:45 a.m.

    No, if you read closer with less arrogance you can plainly see that I did not claim to be a conquered person, nor does the pact of Umar suggest that people need to be conquered to have this Pact in effect. Interesting how you claim that I said I was a conquered person when I clearly did not.

    I am sorry that I do not subscribe to your pagan opinion clearly you are posturing from a point of anger and hostile feelings toward others who are not of your Pagan position.

    I however would stand up for your right to have pagan, budhist or whatever you believe in and I would not label you as a 2nd class Citizen or dhimmis. Finally, the motivations we have are either benevolent or they are not I stand side by side with any creed or religion against tyranny.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 14, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    I'd to remind my "Brothers & Sisters" (gag) of September 11th.....1857.
    Mountain Meadows is our own 9/11 terrorist attack by "radical extremeists".

    Have another spoonful of that humble pie.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    March 14, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    The comparison of Park 51 to the YMCA is a bit strained. It is probably good on most levels, but the Park 51 Center is clearly more religious than the modern YMCA is.

    Why there is such huge hatred on the part of some of Muslims is beyond my understanding. Probably because I grew up in a place with many Muslims and have interacted with them in many situations.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 10:09 a.m.

    '...it represents among many things, the Pact of Umar this thousand year old pact allow's a conquered people a choice of conversion to Islam or death.' - Big Hapa | 9:28 a.m.

    Are you a 'conquered people' Happa?

    You don't SOUND like your conquered.

    As, a 'conquered people' wouldn't have the ability to speak out.

    Also, to claim you ARE conquered when you are not, fails to give justification for any retribution, real or percived.

    And last, the constant rhetoric of the 'us vs. them' is NOT soely from the other side.

    *'Company to Remove Bible References From Combat Rifles' - Fox News - 01/21/10
    Line: 'A Michigan defense contractor will voluntarily stop stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights made for the U.S. military....'

    Still waiting for those WMDs.

    Yes, 9/11 was horrible.

    Does that give justification for FUTURE deaths?

    *'Body of fallen Grantsville soldier arrives home to neighbors, thousands of flags' - By Alex Cabrero - Deseret News - 10/19/10
    Line: 'Byrd was shot and killed in Afghanistan last week.'

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    March 14, 2011 10:09 a.m.

    I don't support any religion that advocates killing other people.

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    March 14, 2011 9:28 a.m.

    One must study for themselves to know the Muslim motivation to have a Mosque, it represents among many things, the Pact of Umar this thousand year old pact allow's a conquered people a choice of conversion to Islam or death.

    This pact of Umar dates back to around the year 720, it mandates dhimmis as they are referred to in Islam, to a subservient role to any muslim in many ways it is comparable to the Jim Crow laws to blacks.

    This pact involves the denial to all persons or dhimmis, zero equalitly to a Muslim from the earliest of days to the present the religion of Islam and the its muslim followers have second class citizenship in mind for all persons who do not acknowledge Mohamed as the one and true prophet of Allah.

    I do believe in the rights of all creeds, religions and fair minded people the right to live and let live. However, the question of tolerating this extremely provocative and inflammatory gesture of a mosque at ground zero is nothing more then a continuation of this thousand year old tradition.

    We US citizens are 2nd class or dhimmis.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    'The Muslim practice of building mosques at the site of their victories/conquests indicates they may consider this mosque as more than a "community center".' - ShaunMcC | 4:46 p.m.

    1) You are not speaking AS a mulsim about thier faith. Rather, you are speaking as an outsider about something you probably know little about. How would I know this? You didn't identify yourself as one.

    Only speaking about another group, as if you knew it intimately.

    2) There is no 'conquest' here. Only implication. If radical muslims CLAIMED this as a 'victory' and 'conquest', I could see your point.

    But again, Muslims have not made this claim. Only those against them to begin with.

    3) There was a small mosque INSIDE the twin towers before the 9/11 attack.

    *'Muslims and Islam Were Part of Twin Towers Life' - SAMUEL G. FREEDMAN - NY Times - 09/10/10
    Line:
    'And so he learned about the Muslim prayer room on the 17th floor of the south tower.'

    4) The results of such fear-mongering.

    *'Muslim congressman weeps at terror hearing' - MSNbc - 03/10/11
    Line:
    'Tearfully describing the story of a Muslim-American first-responder paramedic...'

  • sergio Phoenix, AZ
    March 14, 2011 8:36 a.m.

    They owned and operated at the site before the 9/11 event. Now they are proposing to improve on their property in conformity with the NY zoning and building laws. It is not like they have gone out and sought a location at the 9/11 area to cause problems. They already owned their location. They should be entitled to do improvements. In north Phoenix the Mormon church is building a temple that the residends of the area very much oppose. But, the church owns the land and has the right to improve on it in accord with state laws.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    March 14, 2011 8:22 a.m.

    'Why scholar thinks Mormons should support Ground Zero Mosque' - Article

    This is one thing I can (gasp!) agree with Mormon scholors about.

  • amst plano, tx
    March 14, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    People really should get over themselves. If they want to build a mosque they have that right. There is nothing prohibiting it in the constitution period. I can understand the mix reactions that are occurring especially since it is ground zero we are talking about. Popular opinion cannot, should not, and cannot afford to determine were followers of Islam or any other religious body wish to build a place of worship particularly if they own the ground. I do not agree with opposition to deny them the right to build the mosque but I will agree that people have a right to voice their opinions. We are a country of law not opinion and the law does uphold their right to build it.

  • nick humphrey kent, WA
    March 14, 2011 3:00 a.m.

    "Mormonism has made a transformation over the years in public opinion and acceptance."

    yes, public opinion and acceptance of mormons has gotten worse =)

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    March 14, 2011 2:24 a.m.

    Why should there be any support of a mosque anywhere near ground zero? I lost a relative in tower one that day,also can anybody give one legitimate reason why it should have my blessing.All it would do is rub salt in the wounds of the fallen while laughing at us.Look I'm not a PC kind of guy but I do recognise the danger they present and how to defend against it.I wish you all would search a little deeper before a foolish decision is made.

  • JJL Eugene, OR
    March 14, 2011 1:32 a.m.

    Re: Big Happa

    "There is no warrior or militaristic history with the LDS church fonder and Prophet Joseph Smith."

    Uh, ever hear of the Nauvoo Legion and Lt. General Joseph Smith?

    I am certainly not comparing Joseph Smith to be even remotly like Muhammed, but let's not overstate the facts.

  • Alex 1 Tucson, AZ
    March 14, 2011 12:24 a.m.

    I have had a number friends who were Muslim that I have invited to major events in my life (one as soon as two weeks ago). Yes, friends. I have studied and worked with them and they have NEVER EVER experienced persecution or intimidation from me, period. I say this boldly, because I will not be lectured to about extending the hand of friendship to Muslims just because I have misgivings about the Ground Zero Mosque.

    I am as much in favor of looking for the good in every religion as anyone (and I do), but I'm not going to sit there and pretend that all the Islam wants to do is get along. Coptic Christians are being slaughtered by garden variety Muslims for pretended offenses against the name of Muhammad. Look it up.

    From the beginning, Islam has been spread by Muslims who were just minding their own business living their religion, part of which involves Sharia law. A legitimate Muslim can live his religion by conquering for Islam by the sword and gain eternal life. These are facts that we wish weren't true, but true nonetheless.

    Bottom line: be neighborly, but watch your back.

  • Miss Piggie Nuevo Leon, Mexico
    March 13, 2011 11:48 p.m.

    @Rock Of The Marne: "Most Middle Eastern and Southeastern Asian Muslims I know are good people."

    The issue is not about the good people. The issue of the Peter King hearings is about people who would do us harm. The question is, where are the radicalized youth getting their instructions? And is there any way to stop them. We have been attacked dozens of times and we are consequently on high alert in airports and other places. We need to find out who is providing the source of terror and how to stop it. Our nation can't go on spending billions of money we don't have to try to avert terrorism. We need answers even if DNews monitors and many posters on this thread think otherwise.

    -------------

    @Breakfast of Champions:

    "I have studied Islam extensively, have personal friends who are Muslim, and have even visited both mosques in Salt Lake and talked with the Imams."

    Why don't you go to a Mosque in a Muslim country and see what they teach. Perhaps in the Mosque where bin Laden worships.

  • Alfred Nuevo Leon, Mexico
    March 13, 2011 11:16 p.m.

    @l.cee: "First of all--let's get this straight. The mosque is not AT ground zero but NEAR it a couple blocks away. How can that be a problem of disrespect?"

    The building situated where the Mosque is proposed was hit by flying debris from the attack. That technically makes it part of ground zero.

    "Come on. Let it go and stop letting the secular (read media) fearmongering take you over."

    As was reported in the Congressman Peter King hearing, 80 percent or more of physical attacks around the world are instigated and/or carried out by those who claim the religion of Islam. That should engender some fear... perhaps not of the mongering kind.

  • l.cee Ridgefield, WA
    March 13, 2011 10:06 p.m.

    First of all--let's get this straight. The mosque is not AT ground zero but NEAR it a couple blocks away. How can that be a problem of disrespect? Have ya heard what they really are going to do with the actual "sacred" (as some people say) Ground Zero? Is this what you want: respect the dead with (wait for it) NEW...HUGE...SKYSCRAPERS!!
    Come on. Let it go and stop letting the secular (read media) fearmongering take you over. Go serve a Muslim (remember, they too are children of God and are loved by Him) and you'll learn to love them. If not, then go hide in your bomb shelter and try to find the joy in that.

  • Led Zeppelin II Bountiful, UT
    March 13, 2011 8:42 p.m.

    I am sick and tired of extremists on the right thinking all Muslims are bad.
    They are no better than the extremists on the left who think all Christians are bad.
    If this Mosque has nothing to do with extremists than why not support it?
    If it does than I am against it. I have great Muslim friends and I am blessed to have them. I learn so much from them. And their kindness is genuine.
    People on both sides are constantely generalizing people and discriminating them. I dont even know what liberal or concervative means anymore at least to most people.
    I try to do the right thing. Not what Democrats or Republicans would do. I think it is better to pray about it and listen to the still small voice.
    We need to get our lives in order instead of worring about others or judging others.
    Be kind and love everybody whether we support, or agree with them or not. It really hurts me to see all this hate in the world. If we do not support good we become the bad.

  • owlmaster2 Kaysville, UT
    March 13, 2011 8:36 p.m.

    No matter what was said in the article one thing that was said was right on point.

    Republican Mormons are Republicans first and Mormons second.

  • Benevolus Fruit Heights, UT
    March 13, 2011 7:51 p.m.

    Let Stephen Prothero know he has it wrong. I'm Mormon and I absolutely support the right of people to be insensitive. Muslims want to build a Mosque next to the site of 911, let them. I didn't know it was a matter of religious bigotry to opine it would be offensive.

  • lampa Mc Kinney, TX
    March 13, 2011 7:35 p.m.

    Yes, we Mormons should defend the rights of unpopular religious minorities, including Muslims.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    March 13, 2011 6:52 p.m.

    ShaunMcC, you are so right. Mountain Meadows is set aside as a place for the LDS to stand and reflect on the worst thing any of us could ever do. Never Again!
    Muslims, rejoiced on the streets of the middle eastern countries when the towers fell. We all saw it on the news and on the internet, even thier own news.
    A picture is worth a thousand words.

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    March 13, 2011 6:28 p.m.

    Yes the savage attacks of religious bigotry unite all peoples that have survived the refiners firer and have a hardened survival resolve as the outcome.

    However, that is the beginning and the end of the analogy with LDS follower and the Muslim follower of Islam.

    Islam has a direct link to a warrior prophet Mohamed leading his followers into glorious battle in defense of the teachings of Islam.

    There is no warrior or militaristic history with the LDS church fonder and Prophet Joseph Smith.

    However, in this modern world of global interconnections of information and good will it is always wise and prudent to respect and admire similarities and differences. My thought on the Mosque location is that it is purposefully provocative with intent to inflame and cankering an all ready deep rift of suspicion and distrust.

    Time heals all, but in this case it will take a God to heal this wound.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    There are a few problems with this:

    1) Does someone else being a religious minority mean that other religious minorities automatically music sympathize and agree with their causes? No.

    2) Define persecution. (I'm not picking on Muslims, just read) While 'Mormons' were murdered, raped, tarred & feathered, forced to relocate on foot. Muslims today in America experience unpopularity and as much violence as other groups have. No one is forcing Muslims to relocate, etc. Muslims today and Mormons yesterday do not compare. I'm sure Muslims have faced severe violence in their history, but modern America hardly qualifies as an example of it. Plus- Mormons view Joseph Smith as a literal prophet of God; so for 'the believer', no one faces more persecution than a true prophet, making it a bad comparison to use.

    3) If a radical Mormon blew up a building, the LDS church would never build a temple next door to avoid any possible disrespect. Muslim's aren't necessarily being disrespectful by wanting this mosque, but Mormons have a VERY different set of ethical premises than Muslims, and will certainly lead to different conclusions because quite simply, Mormons have very specific beliefs, which are different.

  • ShaunMcC La Verkin, UT
    March 13, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    The Muslim practice of building mosques at the site of their victories/conquests indicates they may consider this mosque as more than a "community center". Their determination to continue with this in spite of the public feeling against it shows they are not interested in "peaceful coexistence" but in putting forth their agenda regardless of how others are affected. Comparing with Mormons - how offensive would it be for the church to put up a visitor's center or temple at the site of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Instead they put up a simple monument honoring the victims there to remember them and remind us of what can happen if people act out of fear and/or revenge instead of love. There is a world of difference.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    March 13, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    MoJules,
    Attempting to discredit an opposing viewpoint with your "I do not spend my whole day reading every ones comments on DN" bomb (as if to suggest that I do)is a perfect example of how cognitive rigidity defies reason and courteous dialogue. However, let's try to take the high road and keep things civil and without vitriol.

    For those who have taken time to read DN posts dealing with the blatant frustration, antagonism and yes, in some cases, downright animosity that spews out the mouths of some Utahans, it becomes discouraging to compare how similar reactions from anti Muslims; Muslims who in reality are merely collateral damage of the publicized acts of a few radical extremists and drum beaters that are quick to condemn an entire Hispanic race for the migratory patterns of border crossers they may not even know.

    I am ashamedly reminded at the cruelty inflicted upon interned Japanese Americans half a century ago by a bunch of lunatic, uneducated, knee jerk, mob mentality, flag waving American citizens stirred into a hateful frenzy by media and government spreading false information.

    American brothers, please; have we learned nothing from foolish errors in our previous American history?

  • goatesnotes Kamas, UT
    March 13, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    "More faithful to the Republican Party than their Mormon faith." Best line in the article, and regrettably in too many cases, too true.

    As Mormons why would we even want to associate ourselves with Ted Bundy or some other notables who became infamous because of their deeds?

    Why can't we understand, conversely, the desire of the vast majority of Muslims to disassociate themselves from Osama bin Laden?

    One day we will all be brothers in fact, not merely the children of Abraham in name only.

  • Sutton Cedar City, UT
    March 13, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    "Islam is an ideological movement of militant worldwide domination and subjugation, deceptively veiled in religious dogma."
    __________

    What is ironic is that you can say that about any religion on earth...

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    March 13, 2011 4:07 p.m.

    There are similarities if you look for them.

    One sect of Muslims pay 10% of their income to the church, have a womens organization, have a youth learning group and have a mens group to meet about religious things, and have a prophet. Smacks of a popular church locally.

    This group also has hospitals set up in third world countries where they GIVE medical attention to populations in these countries where doctors and professional medical people from their church are called to go to these hospitals and work for free for a year at a time.

    Having worked with the UN I know that this sect puts 100% of the donations they receive into actual projects unlike groups like UNICEF where only 10% of the donations actually make it to relief sites. This one particular group of Muslims set the tone for other groups actually helping the poor and needy.

  • Dr S Purcellville, VA
    March 13, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    One does not need to agree with a religion, group, or individual to understand that if democracy is going to work, then everyone needs to be treated with respect. If we expect to be respected, we must show the same level of respect to others that we would like shown to us.

    The professor is right. If we expect to be able to build our temples and other places of worship where we want too, then we must respect others right to do the same.

  • pakundo St. George, UT
    March 13, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    Islam is an ideological movement of militant worldwide domination and subjugation, deceptively veiled in religious dogma. This is in stark contrast to LDS Doctrine, and many, if not all, other religious doctrines. The primary purpose of Islam is to implement Sharia Law worldwide, and eliminate all other law. In America, this means eliminating our US Constitution, which we Mormons clearly understand from verses in the D&C comes from God. Since the General Authorities have not issued any proclamations stating that the verses in the D&C about the US Constitution have been abrogated, then I can only presume that the Church is also opposed to the implementation of Sharia in the United States. An area of about three miles around any and all mosques worldwide is considered de facto part of the conquered territory of the Dar al-Islam, which roughly translates to the House of Islam. Thus, unlike the construction of LDS templesor really any other denominations house of worshipa mosque is a claim on sovereign territory and part of the Islamic policy of world domination. In this respect, ALL Americans should be opposed to the existence of ANY mosques on US territory.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    March 13, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    Jonathan Eddy I am referring to this blog, I do not spend my whole day reading every ones comments on DN, but I did read all the comments here and that is what I based it on.

    On a personal basis about this Mosque, I really would not care, but I do care how the people of NY and the families feel, let them vote, let them decide and all the rest of us stay out of it.

  • bwoods Tucson, AZ
    March 13, 2011 3:41 p.m.

    Many have already made great points about this professor's weak logic. I just want to say that there is a HUGE difference in his vain attempt to relate the two groups and why we should support the mosque on Ground Zero. The huge difference is this:

    There were no radical Mormons who committed an act of terrorism resulting in the deaths of 3000 innocent lives.

    Also, in spite of 9/11, Muslims are far from being persecuted in the same way that the Church was being persecuted, even by its own government.

    For him to try to relate the two groups and attempt at guilting us to support the mosque is just offensive.

  • peterl Los Gatos, CA
    March 13, 2011 3:40 p.m.

    The Muslim religion is not organized and has no hierarchy or head like the Mormon church. That is probably why they do not make a unified statement against radical Islam.

    I think it is good that we accept all peaceful relgious folks. But unlike Mormonism that holds to feedom to choose religion as one of its most basic tenents, if the Muslims ever become a majority, amen to all other religions.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    Sorry, I can still see the celebration in the streets when news of 9/11 reached the Islamic world and since when was Islam a minority religion?
    My son lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years. They held their own church meetings, moving from one house to another each week, not gathering in too large a group to be noticed. They were not allowed to bring religious Christian books with them, though he had been hired because of his Word of Wisdom compliance and the LDS teachings on families.
    One Egyptian member, a convert from Islam, had changed his name and identity that he would not suffer the penalty for becoming a Latter-day Saint.
    Sorry but this building represents more than a 'coming together'. To the Muslim world(beyond the borders of America) it has a broader meaning of conquest and the continuing struggle to bring that about.
    Wonder how the Missionaries would be received in that suburb of Detroit?

  • utesovertide Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 2:34 p.m.

    Ever since this issue arose I thought it was petty and trite. Mormons constantly face battles over temple building due in large part to bias against the religion. I don't care what religion you are or what it teaches, you have the absolute right to build what you want on your own property. Are we so forgetful we don't remember our own Main Street battle here in SL and how much time the mayor wasted in dividing the city?

    So many people have posted on here that they fear sharia law, as if it somehow will become the constitution.. well, you know, a lot of people take issue with LDS doctrine of work for the dead, and feel that doctrine will one day mean everyone in the history books will be classified as Mormon. Yet those who know that is not true believe all of these other biases and whine and complain that their temple building is challenged.

    I agree with the scholar and Hatch on this one. Besides, as was already pointed out, mosques were already a part of the Wtc destroyed on Sept.11, and Muslim prayers performed in the prayer room pentagon.

  • garysticht San Antonio, TX
    March 13, 2011 2:32 p.m.

    @Instereo: You ask:'What LDS people need to do is ask themselves "What would Jesus do?"'

    Would Jesus build a building that would incite such passionate debate in such a controversial place or would he say, let's be sensitive to those who may object and look elsewhere? He would seek the way of peace and not contention.

    Based on the fact that the LDS Church has moved numerous chuch buildings including temples and gone ahead with plans only after common ground has been met why would a different standard apply here?

  • garysticht San Antonio, TX
    March 13, 2011 2:04 p.m.

    at freedomfighter
    Reread my post: "While they are children of Abraham, Muslims need to purge themselves of their radical element if they ever hope to become accepted in the mainstream. The silence of the majority of Muslims to acts of violence and hate against Christians, Jews, and any other non-Muslim speaks volumes."

    Maybe I should have said that the radical minority should be purged or at least condemned and not condoned by silence if Muslims hope to be viewed as a "religion of peace" instead of accepted in mainstream.

    The difference between radical Islam/Islam and a radical LDS group/LDS Church is that the LDS Church leadership would speak out vehimently and distance themselves explicitly from radicals going so far as to excommunicate said radicals, if needed, to ensure that a small minority doesn't represent the majority. I wish it was the same with Islam and it's radical minority.

    @atl134 Casting shadows can also be a figurative meaning not literal. It is interesting that debris from the planes that were crashed into the WTC hit and damaged the building proposed to be torn down to create Park51. For me that is too close.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    Thank you Instereo and Bob1971 ant other like commentators for standing up for open mindedness and fairness. Many of the commentators here make us Mormons sound like bigotted islmophobes - that is not what Christ taught. What about Ted Kennedy's assistance with getting that steeple issues on the Boston Temple resolved in our behalf? We need more open minded and Christlike people from our Mormon culture to stand agaist bigotry. While I don't always agree with Orrin Hatch, if he supported the building of the Islamic center in New York the cudos to him and I agree with him. Mitt Romney is only interested in giving mouth service to Religion. His real interest in in the Presidency and power!. As a Mormon, I will have to look closely at Mitt's real intentions. I can not say that I will vote for him just because he is a Mormon.

  • nautilus San Antontio, Texas
    March 13, 2011 1:12 p.m.

    Okay, so the LDS'should support the Mosque at ground zero. Is that for 'unity'.

    Then why do some past-presidential contenders not support even the thought of having a "Mormon" run for president. I am sorry, but it works both ways. Such comments counter to what the LDS believe become issue.

    It is a personal offense to invite themselves to build the Mosque at ground zero with those families whose loved ones were killed in the attack on 9/11 by that same place their family members died. Is that like rubbing salt in their wounds?

    There surely must be another place where the controversial Mosque can be built, drawing less attention to the wounds still left by the deep crater left in the place of the Twin Towers.

  • Moderate Thinking Bogota, Colombia, AA
    March 13, 2011 1:00 p.m.

    The answer to the question "should Mormons support Muslims?" as posed by the article is yes - over and over again. Of all people, we Mormons absolutely should understand what Muslims are going through, both because of extremists within their own religion who are are such a tiny fraction of the minority yet are tainting the whole, and because of lack of understanding by those outside of Islam who are allowing stereotypes and fringes to define Muslims in general.

    As Mormons, we have the responsibility to seek learning and understanding of "things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms"(D&C 88:79)

    Every Mormon I have known who has kept this commandment in regards to Islam has gained nothing but respect and reverence for the true nature of the religion practiced by our Muslim brothers and sisters.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:59 p.m.

    @MoJules

    Have you read no blog posts in Deseret News how Hispanics migrating north are being vilified by so called Christians? Justice? Yes. Mercy? Never. Same argument. Refer to all undocumented Hispanics living in Utah as drug dealers. Call all Muslims Jihadists. Get rid of "those people". Get rid of them all is the cry of Christians and non Christians alike.

    Ignorance, intolerance and emotion seem to be overwhelming education, Godly service and common sense.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    March 13, 2011 12:53 p.m.

    Ron Hilton, I was going to say the same thing, the Mormon church would not dream of building a temple near the Mt Meadow.

    So, for years the world has thought that Mormons were polygamists, and we have constantly said, no we are not, we do not embrace that practice and those that do are excommunicated from the Mormon church. What is the difference in asking the Muslims to do that with the extremists?

    I agree 100% about not building the mosque near ground zero, and I would not condone the LDS church building a temple near Mt Meadow. I agree that most Muslims in our country are good people and are getting a bad rap, just like most Mormons on Sept. 11, 1857 were good people.

    Oh, and Stephen Prothero used some really tasteless tactics to get his point across. We learn from the past, we don't hold on to it and re hash it, be it slavery, the treatment of the Mormons. But Sept 11, 2001 is the present, it isn't even ten years yet. Also, it seems that the LDS church had property for a temple in Harrison NY, it wasn't built.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    @Say No to BO
    "Apologists for Islam always speak as though mainstream Muslims are peaceful and tolerant; that only the fringe are a problem."

    Even Glenn Beck estimated that only 10% of them are radical. Heck a poll once showed that 13% of tea party supporters believe violence against the current gov't is acceptable.

    @Ron Hilton
    "Whether or not Muslims have a legal right to build a mosque a Ground Zero,
    it would be at the very least insensitive, and at worst a deliberate provocation."

    There was a mosque in the world trade center (17th floor).

  • gizmo33 St. George, Utah
    March 13, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    in some countries there is no other way of life accepted such as in the middle east. and its not just mormon missionaries that are banned its the practicing of any other kind of religeon except Islam or Muslim and if they do not want any other religeon in their country then it is they're right to have it that way. I have no use for the LDS religeon and that is my right to have it that way also. if you desire to be LDS then more power to you. the world is not for just one its for many.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:41 p.m.

    @garysticht
    "We absolutely do not need to support the Mosque that would cast a shadow over the memorial at the WTC."

    You don't know what NYC looks like do you... something two blocks away isn't even visible.

    @AmPatriot
    "However, you can compare it with every form of government that exist or has ever existed. Islam can be compared to Marxism, Czars, Rulers, despotism, socialism, Monarchy's, democracy's, and Obama, but the thing it is not is a religion."

    Like Mormonism (hey if you're going to pretend Islam is a gov't I'm going to pretend the same with the United Order).

    @Max
    "Mormons can't support things they are against just because they too were persecuted. "

    True, a better reason would be that Americans should support this mosque if they care about the Constitution.

    @Annalaurab
    "I still do not think that this building should be on ground zero.
    Why not build it a few blocks away?"

    It is being built a few blocks away.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:37 p.m.

    insterio
    "What would Jesus do?" He would inspire honorable men to set up a constitution that would promote the individual over the state, and shout from the rooftops that liberty is an inalienable right that comes from God.
    As for comparisons between Mormons and Muslims...there aren't many. I don't see the LDS church inciting its members to jihad, rather, I see the LDS faith promoting the observance of the commandments of Christ.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    March 13, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Insterio, you said " LDS people neglect other "moral" issues like health care, immigration, or education." The Mormon church teaches self reliance, and so most people who do not rely on government are able to pay for their own health care, they do not ask the tax payers to do that. There are some that can't and they get medicaid. We are taught to obey the laws of the land, and there is a big difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration, the Mormon church very much supports legal immigration. As for Education, I personally think public education is terrible and if I could have afforded it, I would not have had my daughter in there. I also do not like that we are paying their salary and especially for teachers that do a poor job. But as for obtaining education, the LDS church strongly teaches that we should get an eduction.
    Jonathan Eddy, please tell me where you found this that you wrote about? "We write on blogs like this how worthless some people are and they need to be obliterated from our neighborhoods." Boy, I didn't see that written and I read all the prior comments

  • AggieNation St.George, Utah
    March 13, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    While I understand the concerns that many anti-NYC mosque proponents hold, I seriously doubt that Muslims will be successful in establishing Shari'a law. The constitution states that no law shall be created respecting an establishment of religion. So chill out, no worries.

  • Ron Hilton Holladay, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:07 p.m.

    Whether or not Muslims have a legal right to build a mosque a Ground Zero, it would be at the very least insensitive, and at worst a deliberate provocation. A better analogy would be if the Mormon church wanted to build an LDS temple at Mountain Meadow. A small memorial to honor the victims and make clear that the perpetrators did not represent Islam would be a more appropriate gesture. But the mosque and the motives of those wishing to build it are very suspect.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    @Meg...How would that same conversation go in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia. It would never happen. Even in Egypt the Christians are in danger right now and were driven out of Lebanon years ago.

    "A prophet, an angel, revelation, new scripture and polygamy."

    Commonalities?

    Surely, and this can also be said of Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Solomon and David as well. All considered Prophets of God by Jews and Christians alike.

    A bit of a phony attachment by the lecturer.

    So, do we now say the Israelites and Muslums have common distinctions? Of course, they both revere Moses and Abraham, strict diet etc.. Other than that, how are they getting on these days?

    Do Mormons and Muslums have the same World view?
    Sharia law, Infedels, death to Apostates, HonorKillings, Womens place, Caliphate etc?

    Does being sensitive to Ground Zero automatically make you Anti Muslum? Can one even disagree anymore without political correctness ruling the day?

    Please vistit Europe and see what how Muslums have melded in with Western Civilization.

    Let us hope and pray that the moderate Muslums will win the day as the Consensus. However, to be naive as to the goals and aims of radicals is perilous.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    This should be an irrelevant discussion. There is evil in the hearts of some Muslims. There is evil in the hearts of some Christians. There is evil in the hearts of some Mormons. Most acts of terrorism in this country are committed by white allegedly Christian males. It is time for Americans to recognize the contributions of Muslims to our world. As Mormons, you seek out the approval of the mainstream religious communities yet insist on your uniqueness. I am amused to see some rationalize their disdain by over analyzing what Islam is. It parrots the mainstream rhetoric about Mormons being Christian. You should offer a hand of friendship and demonstrate tolerance to all people or embrace hypocrisy honestly.

  • zero_limits_33 Eagle mountain, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:57 a.m.

    @AmPatriot

    "First of all, lets get one thing straight, Islam or Muslims are not a religion and cannot be compared to or with any other religion in the world that exist or has ever existed, not even Mormonism."

    First of all, I do not know why you bother distinguishing between islam and muslims. A muslim is a follower of islam. If you did not know the word islam means 'submission to god' or 'peace' or 'way to peace' if I remember correctly.

    Secondly I am amazed at your audacity when asserting that islam is "not a religion". Islam is undeniably a religion. The sharia is a set of laws, but how is that different from all the commandments given in the bible?

    The cultural center/mosque should be allowed. Even if you believe it is in poor taste, in America we uphold the right to offend. If we can allow the WBC to protest at the funerals of our nations heroes then we can allow the cultural center/mosque to be built.

  • balboa Eddy, TX
    March 13, 2011 11:31 a.m.

    Mountain Meadow Massacer, members being tared and feathered - how much are we different. We tend to forget where we came from and our own history. The people hated the Mormons most likely were ignorant of what we beleived in, most likely never read the Book of Morman and did not know a Mormon personaly. How many of us have read the Koran, know a Muslim or know their beleifs. Islam is as much in harmony with us as Mormans as are the Baptist and Catholics. Mountain Medow was caused by a rogue group not representing the church and its idiology. Muslims are Gods children, they are out brothers and sisters, they are as spirtual as we are and just as human. The author made a good comment.Are we more republican than Mormon and are we really on Gods side.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    March 13, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    Perhaps this Muslim center should be built right there close to ground Zero as an offering of reconciliation, peace and forgiveness. Such a building could say to radicals from all tendencies, that people from all cultures and religions can and want to live together. Such a Muslim Center perhaps would represent a slap on the face of those extremist that have kidnapped the civilized Islam and a slap to those in the Christian right, and Jewish right who live by fear, paranoia and condemnation of those who dare to be different. The Golden years of peaceful association between Jews, Muslims and Christians took place in Spain between 800 AD and 1492 AD under Moorish rule. When Christians took over they expelled all those who didn't convert to their faith and five hundred years later we are still fighting.
    A Muslim Center near ground Zero that welcomes Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, seems like a step on the right direction.A Beacon of acceptance and multiculturalism.

  • Breakfast of Champions American Fork, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    You people also realize that the Pentagon was hit during 9/11 as well, and there is a mosque INSIDE THE PENTAGON. No one complains of that one being inappropriate. I see no reason why anyone should want to stop the building of a community center in an old Burlington Coat Factory building.

    People, you are ridiculous.

  • Sutton Cedar City, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    When it comes to Islam, the problem is not faith. The problem is politics. Islam mixes politics and belief into an amalgam that makes it hard to have one without the other.

    ___________________

    You say that like Christianity doesn't do the same exact thing....

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    Mitt Romney is against the 9/11 Mosque, not because he's a Mormon, but because he's a politician.

    Mormon believe members of any religion should be able to worship "how, where, or what they may."

  • freedomfighter American Fork, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:14 a.m.

    @garysticht

    BTW, you have also shown your ignorance is saying that Islam is not of Abraham. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. Judaism and Christianity believe they come from the line of Issac. Muslims believe they come from Ishmael. The Koran teaches for this reason that Muslims, Christians, and Jews are all "brothers of the book" and should therefore help one another.

  • Fender Bender Saint George, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    I am a Mormon and I have supported the construction of this mosque since day one. I am suprised and disappointed by how many LDS members are opposed to this mosque.

    From the comments on this board, it appears that many Mormons (1) insist on blaming all Muslims for the terrorist acts committed by a small minority of fundamentalist, extremist Muslims, (2) insist on applying negative, inaccurate stereotypes to the Muslim religion as a whole, and (3) refuse to see how closely this mirrors the public perception problems with Mormons in the United States.

    During Romney's 2008 presidential campaign, I often read comments like the following:

    "I will support religious freedom for Mormons as soon as they allow me in their temples."

    "Mormon men treat women horribly, and are allowed to marry multiple under-age wives."

    "Mormonism is a cult determined to take over the government."

    It seems the same arguments are being used by some Mormons against Muslims. How can we demand tolerance from our society, and treat others with such intolerance?

  • wrz Nuevo Leon, Mexico
    March 13, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    @JLFuller: "Islam mixes politics and belief into an amalgam that makes it hard to have one without the other."

    You got that right, JL. Further, Islam's mix of politics (Sharia Law) and belief is a handy mechanism that provides plausible deniability. They can claim to be a benign, loving religion while at the same time support world slavery and terrorism.

    And that mix of politics and belief is extremely dangerous for the survival of our America. We honor the rule of separation of church and state enshrined in our Constitution. Yet, with Islam the two are the same. And, as we speak, certain Muslim communities in America are demanding that they be ruled by Sharia which means that the church and state separation is being minimized and shoved aside.

  • freedomfighter American Fork, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:11 a.m.

    @garysticht

    BTW, you have also shown your ignorance is saying that Islam is not of Abraham. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. Judaism and Christianity believe they come from the line of Issac. Muslims believe they come from Ishmael. The Koran teaches for this reason that Muslims, Christians, and Jews are all "brothers of the book" and should therefore help one another.

  • Breakfast of Champions American Fork, UT
    March 13, 2011 11:06 a.m.

    @garysticht
    "While we preach the gospel to all the world we do not do so with a sword in hand saying, 'Join us or die.'"

    You have no idea what you're talking about. I have studied Islam extensively, have personal friends who are Muslim, and have even visited both mosques in Salt Lake and talked with the Imams. You are WRONG, and it frightens me that so many people liked your comment. Islam is a religion of peace. Yes, skeptics, it is.

    Let me ask you this, if 2% of Mormons became violent with gays, should I believe that the LDS faith supports that? Absolutely not. The teachings of LDS leaders and the majority of peaceful Mormons would show that this fringe group does not really understand their faith. Islam is the same.

    As a Mormon myself, I suggest we stop listening to what the news has to say and start going out to meet and friend Muslims ourselves.

  • balboa Eddy, TX
    March 13, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    We can not seperate ourselves from history and say as Mormons, things are different. The speaker is right. We had our Mountain Medow Massacer, we are exclussive about who we let into our temples, we have had to fight off hatred and misunderstandings, all from people who knew nothing about our religion nor had they read the Book of Mormon. I suggest that we put a mirror in front of ourselves, we may see a people who have not read the Koran, who never met a muslim and never tried to seperate the religious beliefs from the actions of individuals. Muslim teachings are in harmony with Mormon teachings just as much as are the Baptists and Catholics. They teach love of God, doing good deeds and raising a good family. The author is right, we may br so caught up in politics, being a republican that we forget to ask ouselves, "are we on gods side". Muslims are Gods children and our brothers and sisters, any venom against them is not from God.

  • Dave Duncan Orem, UT
    March 13, 2011 10:47 a.m.

    Supporting the RIGHT to do something that demonstrates extremely bad taste, and is offensive to many, is not the same as supporting the offensive ACTION itself.

    While those building this mosque apparently have the right to do so, it is extremely offensive to many people, and those behind it do themselves no favor in enacting this poorly-made decision.

  • Resolute Voice Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    The missing part in this discussion is the millions of peaceful Muslims whose deafening silence in defense of the true nature of their beliefs is drowned out by the radicals. We only heard token condemnation of 9-11. We hear no condemnation when radical Muslims massacre innocent children. Even the so-called moderate American Imams seem to ignore the human waste caused by radicals. Mormons had a Mountain Meadows. Muslims have bombings in Israel, the use of weapons of mass destruction against different ethnic groups, September 11, the Lockerbie bombing, Fort Hood, USS Cole, 1984 Marine Barracks, etc The perception of Islam will change when its own members take their own religion back and consistently and publically cry freedom and denounce the violence. The status of Islam will change when Imams stop preaching Sharia and inferiority of others and start condemning violence not just in America but also in Muslim countries around the world.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 13, 2011 10:27 a.m.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens if an issue ever comes along in which religion can't be twisted enough to rationalise it to our republican thinking, which comes first. There have been some interesting, thoughtful posts to this article but I don't think this issue is enough to see a separation of church and party.

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    March 13, 2011 10:24 a.m.

    Most Middle Eastern and Southeastern Asian Muslims I know are good people. If you try to get to know them they are some of the friendliest people around. Unfortunatly it is the fringe nut jobs that taint the public perception to the negative. Not that I want to see us in another war, but we should support those in Libyia tryting to overthrough their dictator. It's their own revelotionary war; a war in which we ourselves recieved some help from the outside (France).

  • Trueman Draper, Utah
    March 13, 2011 10:19 a.m.

    To compare the discussion about Mormans in 1904 and muslims now is absurd and just proves that ignorance and appeasement can be dangerous when we continue to ignore the muslim problem in the world....not Morman problem.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    March 13, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    Regardless of religious or political viewpoint, we are all guilty of falling for the propaganda of hate. Just look at what is happening in the world today. Is there any individual or group that isn't showing some form of "justifiable" animosity toward another individual, nation, religion or group? We all "rightfully" hate in the name of Christianity, national pride, party affiliation, you name it. There is always a well founded reason to wipe a person or a nation of people off of the face of the map.

    We go to church on Sunday and preach a gospel of peace, but on Monday we write on blogs like this how worthless some people are and they need to be obliterated from our neighborhoods. The people of Utah are not free from blame. Let's keep passing new laws that legally justify no compassion for "law breakers" and let's see how acceptable our offering are before our Creator. We are all hypocrites and we had better change our ways in a hurry or we will be the next group of people to be justifiably hated.

  • nicholdraper West Jordan, UT
    March 13, 2011 9:45 a.m.

    How silly, comparing the Muslim 1.5 billion to Mormon's 13 million. Yes they certainly need our help. Mitt Romney, Harry Reed, Donny and Marie? Is that how us Mormon's are viewed, how nice, I thought it was Big Love, the Mountain Meadows Massacre movie, derogatory comments in the op ed sections of newspapers and the oh you're one of them comments I have received once in awhile that signaled the end of a friendship or interview. I don't imagine that our support will do Muslims much good.

  • JLFuller Boise, ID
    March 13, 2011 9:40 a.m.

    When it comes to Islam, the problem is not faith. The problem is politics. Islam mixes politics and belief into an amalgam that makes it hard to have one without the other. Few condemn Muslims for their particular belief in God even if they call Him by another name. The problem is with those Muslims who put politics before their faith. For Muslims who put faith before politics, I doubt they are the people Congress is concerned with.

  • Meg Portage, MI
    March 13, 2011 9:33 a.m.

    A few weeks after 9/11, our Relief Society invited the women of the local Islamic Center to lunch and a discussion about Mormon and Muslim beliefs. We had a wonderful time together, and we learned a lot about the things we share in common. Perhaps in a time of increasing viciousness, it is a good idea to build bridges rather than walls.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    March 13, 2011 9:31 a.m.

    Here's the crux of the article "I think these Mormon Republican people in power are more Republicans than they are Mormons,"

    As an LDS member who came from Ohio as a republican to Utah, I quickly learned politics is worn on many LDS sleeves. I think the thing most interesting is how because Republicans don't believe in abortion or gay marriage, LDS people neglect other "moral" issues like health care, immigration, or education.

    Sure there are explainations for why they believe as they do like "It's against the law, period" or it costs to much or privatization and free enterprise will solve everything. I wonder though if the Savior they claim who restored the gospel would sanction their policies that seem to favor the rich at the expense of the poor.

    What LDS people need to do is ask themselves "What would Jesus do?" They need to do this not just with "moral" issues like abortion but in issues that involved interpretations of the constitution or with political policies.

  • Bob1971 LA, Ca
    March 13, 2011 9:26 a.m.

    Why aren't more Mormons speaking out?
    "I think these Mormon Republican people in power are more Republicans than they are Mormons," Prothero said. "If they took the time to see themselves as at least as Mormon as they are Republican they would do the right thing. They are more faithful to their Republican politics than they are to their Mormon faith."

    This author is the reason why Mitt Romney will likely never be the President of the United States. Mormons in Utah can elect Mormons in Utah to represent their people and the representative can give faithful representation. As the President of the US Mitt Romney will never be elected if he puts his Mormon faith over the politics that got him elected. I just don't understand my fellow Mormons. Our faith is not the monopoly on great politics and it is not the monopoly on true morals sent from the divine. Open up and see the world for what it is we don't have all the answers and the monopoly and good decisions. Republican, Independent, or Democrat serve your party and your country and not your faith or rigid ideology.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    March 13, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    Wow,

    This scholar is really trying to twist facts and manipulate the mormons into supporting the building of a Muslim temple/ymca.

    The support for building a temple/mosque in NYC does not determine whether or not you support the rights of a religious minority. How ludicrous. I remember Mormon church building permits being turned down because the neighbors did not want a temple built in their neighborhood. Where was the muslim support?
    The mormons quietly retreated and either found another spot to build their temple or they waited and did community outreach.

    The Muslim community would do well to see what the Mormon church does in terms of community outreach in communities where they want to build a mosque.

    The islamic faith is not a religious minotiry, they are a world religion, unlike the mormon faith that is very North America-centric. The islam world should support the american muslims.

    And by the way, I'm pretty sure Mr. Romney supports Muslims rights to worship freely (as long as that does not go against anyone else's religious/human rights - i.e. no sharia law)

    Sorry Mr Prothero, you have it all wrong

  • Jonathan S Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    While it's surely useful to note commonalities when examining two or more things, it's at least equally important to note differences, which is why we admonish kindergartners to "compare and contrast."

    This DN piece, yet another editorial disguised as an objective news story, does the former, but fails at the latter, as does the hero of the narrative, Dr. Prothero.

    The professor laments that Islam lacks admirable celebrity adherents, or at least those which are inoffensive. I can think of a couple - Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - but I wouldn't insist that these two better define Islam than, say, Osama bin Laden. It's not non-Muslims' fault that bin Laden is the face of Islam, though, as Prothero contends. Rather it's the fault of Islam itself for repeatedly glorifying and urging the slaughter of non-Muslims in its holy book. It's also the fault of the majorities of a slew of Muslim countries, who, opinion research proves, resoundingly approve of terror.

    Mormons and Muslims are widely disliked religious minorities. The former hasn't murdered my countrymen en masse, unlike the latter. That's the difference that matters the most.

  • International Cougar Fan Tacoma, WA
    March 13, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    Is building a mosque at ground zero showing sensitivity to the families of all Americans who died on 9/11? That is the crux of the problem. Why should the LDS church support an insensitive proposal? I would think and hope that the LDS church supports Muslims on things that are good and of benefit to all.

  • Annalaurab Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 8:03 a.m.

    I have a lot of respect for many Muslims and have many as friends but I still do not think that this building should be on ground zero. Why not build it a few blocks away? It's not the building itself I have an issue with but rather the location of it.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    March 13, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    Apologists for Islam always speak as though mainstream Muslims are peaceful and tolerant; that only the fringe are a problem.
    So, how come LDS missionaries aren't allowed in most middle-Eastern countries?
    We're in Russia, for crying out loud. Why not Saudi Arabia?
    Our Marines have died in an effort to bring them democracy, and they haven't done it.
    There's a serious disconnect here, and professors giving speeches are not going to remedy it.

  • LAnon Cedar Hills, UT
    March 13, 2011 7:59 a.m.

    As atl34 said, this was(is) to be more of a community rec center that is to help teach tolerance and understanding. In studying world religions, I found the Mormon faith to be more closely aligned to that of the Muslim faith than almost any other religion be it Catholicism, protestanism, eastern mysticism, and even the Community of Christ (former RLDS). How far away from Ground Zero would it have to be for it to be acceptable to you?

  • pat1 Taylorsville, UT
    March 13, 2011 7:49 a.m.

    I don't have as strong opinions about the building as garysticht, but I do agree with him about the influence of the radical muslims. If the "silent majority" of muslims have different motivations from radicals, we don't hear much about it. There have been discussions from non-radicals on NPR, but national public radio isn't as sensationalistic in their presentation as Fox news so such discussions aren't heard by many.

    The Judeao-Christian group of people have a violent past as well as the muslim religion if you take the Old Testament as your guide for religion--David was a warrior king who killed a lot of people, when the Israelites came into Canaan they were instructed to kill everyone who wasn't Israelite. A few centuries after the Nicean creed, Christianity existed with the sword. But this hasn't been encouraged for many centuries now.

    Because the less radical muslims don't talk much, we tend to fear all muslims.

  • timpClimber Provo, UT
    March 13, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    I have carefully studied this issue because I lived and worked in an African country under Sharia law. I saw muslim slaves (one of the slavers offered to buy my American female assistant for seven horses), how they treated women, ran their businesses, etc. Then for 18 years taught the children of non muslim refugees from muslim countries. Their stories of persecution make Haun's Mill seem tame. I have studied the Koran and the additional writings that are accepted as holy law. I have read the writings of the man behind the NY masque (especially those published for muslims in other countries) and he is on a crusade to turn America into a Sharia based nation and believes he has been chosen to begin a Granada like condition in the US (Granada Moorish Spain had all Jews and Christians as slaves building the Iberian Calipha) So this scholar's plea for Mormon support should be taken with a bucket of salt.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    March 13, 2011 7:31 a.m.

    Well said, Graystitch. Muslims live the Sharia law, which states that anyone who is not Muslim has no rights - not even a right to live. Muslim women are treated like chattel, and if one of the wives displeases her husband, she can be severely beaten, disfigured or killed. They can have up to four wives.

    The scholar who wrote this article appears not to be familiar with Mormon or Muslim teachings. He says Mormons should support a mosque built in the shadows of the 9/11 disaster because they have a lot in common with Muslims. He says that Mormons used to be persecuted but now have become part of the mainstream religion so they should understand the mosque. Really? I think not!

    When Muslims have won a battle in the name of Jihad, they build a mosque on the site of that battle as a sign of victory in the name of Allah. To allow a mosque to be built there would denigrate the memory of the victims who died there while proclaiming victory to the ones who murdered them. No, Mormons should never support a mosque on that site.

  • Max Syracuse, NY
    March 13, 2011 7:24 a.m.

    Mormons can't support things they are against just because they too were persecuted.

  • texlds Dallas, TX
    March 13, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    "Prothero was surprised and disappointed that Mormons didn't seem to be supporting the rights of another religious minority...."

    Well, what can I say in defense? It seems that many Mormons these are more influenced by Fox News than by Joseph Smith, who said,

    "If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a Mormon, I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination" (History of the Church, 5:498).

    And let us not forget that it is the blessings of Abraham that we strive for in our religion, and his blessings include Ishmael.

    As for acceptance in the mainstream, why would any Mormon ever, ever hold that out as something good? Mainstream is Babylon which we've been told to flee without looking back.

  • Gr8Dane Tremonton, UT
    March 13, 2011 6:13 a.m.

    The "scholar" doesn't get it. People with common sense would understand, that this isn't about religion or attacking Islam per se. It's about the Shari'a law, and getting the west to "submit" to Islam, whether it takes 10 years or 100 years. They go to the heart of the west's biggest and most important city, and establish their bulkhead. And in Detroit, there are is an entire suburb dominated by muslims dedicated to shari'a law, and where even local cops don't police anymore, and you can hear the "call to prayer" over loudspeakers 4 times a day. That's what this is about; such radically different cultures and beliefs, and values of shari'a that are radically opposed to western judeo=christian values. The subjugation of women, honor killings...have no place in our society, and the new york center, aside from being breathtakingly insensitive following the 9-11 attacks, would seem to say that that's ok. Well, Im not ok with that.

  • Terrie Bittner Warminster, PA
    March 13, 2011 5:44 a.m.

    @garysticht--You are using the same argument anti-Mormons use against us. They say we need to purge our religion of the FLDS who force their young girls to marry older men. Our response: They hijacked our name, but they aren't us and we don't control them. In the same way, radical Islam has hijacked true Islam and the real Muslims can't do anything about it.

    Go to LDS.org and put in the words Muslim and Islam. You will see many articles praising this faith and telling us how to treat them. Then read the many recent talks on religious freedom.

    The church, without mentioning that mosque, makes it clear where God stands. Where God stands, I stand--so I support the mosque. We don't move our temples and chapels unless forced to do so. Watch the battles we wage to keep them where they are. They should hold their ground as well because we could be next if the haters win this battle.

  • AmPatriot Kearns, UT
    March 13, 2011 5:31 a.m.

    First of all, lets get one thing straight, Islam or Muslims are not a religion and cannot be compared to or with any other religion in the world that exist or has ever existed, not even Mormonism.

    However, you can compare it with every form of government that exist or has ever existed. Islam can be compared to Marxism, Czars, Rulers, despotism, socialism, Monarchy's, democracy's, and Obama, but the thing it is not is a religion.

    And like our constitution we love and honor it with religious fervor but like the Muslim Koran, it is not a religious document we refer to as if it is a nameless god. The Koran is a rule of law, rule of order document not to be confused with love and kindness we expect from a god or holy man.

    And this document that the United States rules itself by is the law of the land contrary to Muslim government rules. Our constitution and laws prohibits any other form of government to set rule of law and rule of order.

  • garysticht San Antonio, TX
    March 13, 2011 3:08 a.m.

    The only problem with this argument is that the LDS Church has never taught the destruction of all other religions to acheive its desire of one faith, one Lord, one baptism. While we preach the gospel to all the world we do not do so with a sword in hand saying, "Join us or die." If someone choses to leave the faith we are not bound by honor to kill that person as a heretic. LDS Temples and Churches are moved or redesigned to be sensitive to the desires of local residences. We absolutely do not need to support the Mosque that would cast a shadow over the memorial at the WTC.

    While they are children of Abraham, Muslims need to purge themselves of their radical element if they ever hope to become accepted in the mainstream. The silence of the majority of Muslims to acts of violence and hate against Christians, Jews, and any other non-Muslim speaks volumes.

    No, Mormons should not support such a building.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2011 12:56 a.m.

    An open community center with cooking classes and basketball courts. Frankly this is like what I guess i'll call a YMMA. I mean, if the concern is over "radical islam" what you should want muslims to build is everybody's welcome type community centers like this one anyway.