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Speaker at UVU says minority religions need to back each other

Published: Sunday, March 13 2011 12:40 a.m. MST

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atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

An open community center with cooking classes and basketball courts. Frankly this is like what I guess i'll call a YMMA. I mean, if the concern is over "radical islam" what you should want muslims to build is everybody's welcome type community centers like this one anyway.

garysticht
San Antonio, TX

The only problem with this argument is that the LDS Church has never taught the destruction of all other religions to acheive its desire of one faith, one Lord, one baptism. While we preach the gospel to all the world we do not do so with a sword in hand saying, "Join us or die." If someone choses to leave the faith we are not bound by honor to kill that person as a heretic. LDS Temples and Churches are moved or redesigned to be sensitive to the desires of local residences. We absolutely do not need to support the Mosque that would cast a shadow over the memorial at the WTC.

While they are children of Abraham, Muslims need to purge themselves of their radical element if they ever hope to become accepted in the mainstream. The silence of the majority of Muslims to acts of violence and hate against Christians, Jews, and any other non-Muslim speaks volumes.

No, Mormons should not support such a building.

AmPatriot
Kearns, UT

First of all, lets get one thing straight, Islam or Muslims are not a religion and cannot be compared to or with any other religion in the world that exist or has ever existed, not even Mormonism.

However, you can compare it with every form of government that exist or has ever existed. Islam can be compared to Marxism, Czars, Rulers, despotism, socialism, Monarchy's, democracy's, and Obama, but the thing it is not is a religion.

And like our constitution we love and honor it with religious fervor but like the Muslim Koran, it is not a religious document we refer to as if it is a nameless god. The Koran is a rule of law, rule of order document not to be confused with love and kindness we expect from a god or holy man.

And this document that the United States rules itself by is the law of the land contrary to Muslim government rules. Our constitution and laws prohibits any other form of government to set rule of law and rule of order.

Terrie Bittner
Warminster, PA

@garysticht--You are using the same argument anti-Mormons use against us. They say we need to purge our religion of the FLDS who force their young girls to marry older men. Our response: They hijacked our name, but they aren't us and we don't control them. In the same way, radical Islam has hijacked true Islam and the real Muslims can't do anything about it.

Go to LDS.org and put in the words Muslim and Islam. You will see many articles praising this faith and telling us how to treat them. Then read the many recent talks on religious freedom.

The church, without mentioning that mosque, makes it clear where God stands. Where God stands, I stand--so I support the mosque. We don't move our temples and chapels unless forced to do so. Watch the battles we wage to keep them where they are. They should hold their ground as well because we could be next if the haters win this battle.

Gr8Dane
Tremonton, UT

The "scholar" doesn't get it. People with common sense would understand, that this isn't about religion or attacking Islam per se. It's about the Shari'a law, and getting the west to "submit" to Islam, whether it takes 10 years or 100 years. They go to the heart of the west's biggest and most important city, and establish their bulkhead. And in Detroit, there are is an entire suburb dominated by muslims dedicated to shari'a law, and where even local cops don't police anymore, and you can hear the "call to prayer" over loudspeakers 4 times a day. That's what this is about; such radically different cultures and beliefs, and values of shari'a that are radically opposed to western judeo=christian values. The subjugation of women, honor killings...have no place in our society, and the new york center, aside from being breathtakingly insensitive following the 9-11 attacks, would seem to say that that's ok. Well, Im not ok with that.

texlds
Dallas, TX

"Prothero was surprised and disappointed that Mormons didn't seem to be supporting the rights of another religious minority...."

Well, what can I say in defense? It seems that many Mormons these are more influenced by Fox News than by Joseph Smith, who said,

"If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a Mormon, I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination" (History of the Church, 5:498).

And let us not forget that it is the blessings of Abraham that we strive for in our religion, and his blessings include Ishmael.

As for acceptance in the mainstream, why would any Mormon ever, ever hold that out as something good? Mainstream is Babylon which we've been told to flee without looking back.

Max
Syracuse, NY

Mormons can't support things they are against just because they too were persecuted.

Serenity
Manti, UT

Well said, Graystitch. Muslims live the Sharia law, which states that anyone who is not Muslim has no rights - not even a right to live. Muslim women are treated like chattel, and if one of the wives displeases her husband, she can be severely beaten, disfigured or killed. They can have up to four wives.

The scholar who wrote this article appears not to be familiar with Mormon or Muslim teachings. He says Mormons should support a mosque built in the shadows of the 9/11 disaster because they have a lot in common with Muslims. He says that Mormons used to be persecuted but now have become part of the mainstream religion so they should understand the mosque. Really? I think not!

When Muslims have won a battle in the name of Jihad, they build a mosque on the site of that battle as a sign of victory in the name of Allah. To allow a mosque to be built there would denigrate the memory of the victims who died there while proclaiming victory to the ones who murdered them. No, Mormons should never support a mosque on that site.

timpClimber
Provo, UT

I have carefully studied this issue because I lived and worked in an African country under Sharia law. I saw muslim slaves (one of the slavers offered to buy my American female assistant for seven horses), how they treated women, ran their businesses, etc. Then for 18 years taught the children of non muslim refugees from muslim countries. Their stories of persecution make Haun's Mill seem tame. I have studied the Koran and the additional writings that are accepted as holy law. I have read the writings of the man behind the NY masque (especially those published for muslims in other countries) and he is on a crusade to turn America into a Sharia based nation and believes he has been chosen to begin a Granada like condition in the US (Granada Moorish Spain had all Jews and Christians as slaves building the Iberian Calipha) So this scholar's plea for Mormon support should be taken with a bucket of salt.

pat1
Taylorsville, UT

I don't have as strong opinions about the building as garysticht, but I do agree with him about the influence of the radical muslims. If the "silent majority" of muslims have different motivations from radicals, we don't hear much about it. There have been discussions from non-radicals on NPR, but national public radio isn't as sensationalistic in their presentation as Fox news so such discussions aren't heard by many.

The Judeao-Christian group of people have a violent past as well as the muslim religion if you take the Old Testament as your guide for religion--David was a warrior king who killed a lot of people, when the Israelites came into Canaan they were instructed to kill everyone who wasn't Israelite. A few centuries after the Nicean creed, Christianity existed with the sword. But this hasn't been encouraged for many centuries now.

Because the less radical muslims don't talk much, we tend to fear all muslims.

LAnon
Cedar Hills, UT

As atl34 said, this was(is) to be more of a community rec center that is to help teach tolerance and understanding. In studying world religions, I found the Mormon faith to be more closely aligned to that of the Muslim faith than almost any other religion be it Catholicism, protestanism, eastern mysticism, and even the Community of Christ (former RLDS). How far away from Ground Zero would it have to be for it to be acceptable to you?

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

Apologists for Islam always speak as though mainstream Muslims are peaceful and tolerant; that only the fringe are a problem.
So, how come LDS missionaries aren't allowed in most middle-Eastern countries?
We're in Russia, for crying out loud. Why not Saudi Arabia?
Our Marines have died in an effort to bring them democracy, and they haven't done it.
There's a serious disconnect here, and professors giving speeches are not going to remedy it.

Annalaurab
Salt Lake City, UT

I have a lot of respect for many Muslims and have many as friends but I still do not think that this building should be on ground zero. Why not build it a few blocks away? It's not the building itself I have an issue with but rather the location of it.

International Cougar Fan
Tacoma, WA

Is building a mosque at ground zero showing sensitivity to the families of all Americans who died on 9/11? That is the crux of the problem. Why should the LDS church support an insensitive proposal? I would think and hope that the LDS church supports Muslims on things that are good and of benefit to all.

Jonathan S
Salt Lake City, UT

While it's surely useful to note commonalities when examining two or more things, it's at least equally important to note differences, which is why we admonish kindergartners to "compare and contrast."

This DN piece, yet another editorial disguised as an objective news story, does the former, but fails at the latter, as does the hero of the narrative, Dr. Prothero.

The professor laments that Islam lacks admirable celebrity adherents, or at least those which are inoffensive. I can think of a couple - Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - but I wouldn't insist that these two better define Islam than, say, Osama bin Laden. It's not non-Muslims' fault that bin Laden is the face of Islam, though, as Prothero contends. Rather it's the fault of Islam itself for repeatedly glorifying and urging the slaughter of non-Muslims in its holy book. It's also the fault of the majorities of a slew of Muslim countries, who, opinion research proves, resoundingly approve of terror.

Mormons and Muslims are widely disliked religious minorities. The former hasn't murdered my countrymen en masse, unlike the latter. That's the difference that matters the most.

wwookie
Payson, UT

Wow,

This scholar is really trying to twist facts and manipulate the mormons into supporting the building of a Muslim temple/ymca.

The support for building a temple/mosque in NYC does not determine whether or not you support the rights of a religious minority. How ludicrous. I remember Mormon church building permits being turned down because the neighbors did not want a temple built in their neighborhood. Where was the muslim support?
The mormons quietly retreated and either found another spot to build their temple or they waited and did community outreach.

The Muslim community would do well to see what the Mormon church does in terms of community outreach in communities where they want to build a mosque.

The islamic faith is not a religious minotiry, they are a world religion, unlike the mormon faith that is very North America-centric. The islam world should support the american muslims.

And by the way, I'm pretty sure Mr. Romney supports Muslims rights to worship freely (as long as that does not go against anyone else's religious/human rights - i.e. no sharia law)

Sorry Mr Prothero, you have it all wrong

Bob1971
LA, Ca

Why aren't more Mormons speaking out?
"I think these Mormon Republican people in power are more Republicans than they are Mormons," Prothero said. "If they took the time to see themselves as at least as Mormon as they are Republican they would do the right thing. They are more faithful to their Republican politics than they are to their Mormon faith."

This author is the reason why Mitt Romney will likely never be the President of the United States. Mormons in Utah can elect Mormons in Utah to represent their people and the representative can give faithful representation. As the President of the US Mitt Romney will never be elected if he puts his Mormon faith over the politics that got him elected. I just don't understand my fellow Mormons. Our faith is not the monopoly on great politics and it is not the monopoly on true morals sent from the divine. Open up and see the world for what it is we don't have all the answers and the monopoly and good decisions. Republican, Independent, or Democrat serve your party and your country and not your faith or rigid ideology.

Instereo
Eureka, UT

Here's the crux of the article "I think these Mormon Republican people in power are more Republicans than they are Mormons,"

As an LDS member who came from Ohio as a republican to Utah, I quickly learned politics is worn on many LDS sleeves. I think the thing most interesting is how because Republicans don't believe in abortion or gay marriage, LDS people neglect other "moral" issues like health care, immigration, or education.

Sure there are explainations for why they believe as they do like "It's against the law, period" or it costs to much or privatization and free enterprise will solve everything. I wonder though if the Savior they claim who restored the gospel would sanction their policies that seem to favor the rich at the expense of the poor.

What LDS people need to do is ask themselves "What would Jesus do?" They need to do this not just with "moral" issues like abortion but in issues that involved interpretations of the constitution or with political policies.

Meg
Portage, MI

A few weeks after 9/11, our Relief Society invited the women of the local Islamic Center to lunch and a discussion about Mormon and Muslim beliefs. We had a wonderful time together, and we learned a lot about the things we share in common. Perhaps in a time of increasing viciousness, it is a good idea to build bridges rather than walls.

JLFuller
Boise, ID

When it comes to Islam, the problem is not faith. The problem is politics. Islam mixes politics and belief into an amalgam that makes it hard to have one without the other. Few condemn Muslims for their particular belief in God even if they call Him by another name. The problem is with those Muslims who put politics before their faith. For Muslims who put faith before politics, I doubt they are the people Congress is concerned with.

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