Need to change the subject as fast as we can from basketball. Go Utes,
Good coaching now pays off in September. Glad we get you at our place in Provo
this year. Good luck in your new league. Hope you represent our state very well.
Can't really hate a team that has so many ties to my Cougars, but hope you at
least have one loss.
Tommy2Shoes: Unlike your team down south, we are in a conference. A BCS
conference. We can get into the BCS without running the table anymore. Not that
I wouldn't love going undefeated.
MCH1056 Tommy says something classy and nice and there you go acting
all juvenile. Oh brother!
Amen to that fresnogirl. There are "fans?" on both sides that these
boards could do with without.Who Am I Sir? A UTAH man am I!
MCH1056"we are in a conference. A BCS conference. We can get
into the BCS without running the table anymore."So can Arizona,
Iowa St, Baylor, Duke, Vanderbilt, Indiana, ... the list goes on and on.
"Can" doesn't mean U ever "will".Every BCS
conference needs bottom feeders to help the elite teams pad their records.
Ohhh man, I can not wait for the next month to eat up the football news. I've
got my season tickets renewed and am roaring to go. Too bad the Jazz stink, so
basketball season is no fun this year to carry me at least until the summer.
Six more months until football again.....please come quickly!!!I'm
excited to see how the depth chart unfolds!!
hedgehogHow well the defense plays won't matter if the Utes don't
have a quarterback.
Well until the "bitterness and jealousy" subsides it's going to be
darn difficult to become a Ute fan this first season or two. Sure a
10-3 season is a very good season but those 3 losses were just miserable. So how
does a 10-3 season in the MWC and Las Vegas Bowl convert in a stronger
conference???Nothing wrong with optimism but when fans start
flaunting the BCS card and how succesful the Utes are going to be this coming
season I just don't buy it.Face it, Utes have not matched up that
well against PAC-10 opponents. Just doubt that changing a few players and going
into a stronger conference is going yield the same W / L record. Doesn't make
sense but stranger things have happened.
"How well the defense plays won't matter if the Utes don't have a
quarterback"Sportfan,You like to bang this drum
don't you.Let's review once again for ya - K?Based on
what you said, I'm assuming you don't think much about Heaps; He has a lower QB
rating than Wynn and lost in his only head to head. Infact Wynn won the game
with one arm. Heaps couldn't beat a one armed QB?Also, I might add,
that both Ute QB's available this spring were both rated higher than wynn
comming out of high school. Both have bigger arms. both are more mobile, both ar
bigger than Wynn.And finally, a new offesive system is being
installed.. making Wynns experience less painful not having for spring.
hedgehogSorry, your analysis of Wynn and Heaps: FAIL!!!Compare the last 6 games of the season, when Heaps was the
full-time starter and Jake was starting to find his rhythm versus the last 6
games of Wynn's sophomore year.Heaps' stats were MUCH better than
Wynn's.It's hillarious that you compare Wynn's high school numbers
with the high school numbers of Utah's other QB's, but avoid comparing them with
Heaps' high school number. It's obvious why you wouldn't want to do that.Bottom line is Utah fans would give their eye-teeth, and every QB on
Utah's roster, to have Heaps starting for the Utes next season.btw,
your 2nd grade level name calling just makes your arguments look, well, 2nd
"Compare the last 6 games of the season, when Heaps was the full-time
starter and Jake was starting to find his rhythm versus the last 6 games of
Wynn's sophomore year."sywalker,one word...
FAIL.Somehow you left out quality of opponent didn't you? How about
an injury that required sugery? No? not valid for your little anaylsis? LOL.No, the best way to compare both QB's is to look at the season as a
whole... and before you start Yning that Heaps didn't play all the games...
nether did Wynn.Again,Higher QB rating - WynnHigher head to head- Wynn
hedgehogYou're a little over-optimistic expecting high school
numbers to translate to college level performance.Until we see how
these new quarterbacks perform in the face of a blitzing USC linebacker, it's
impossible to predict whether any of Utah's QBs will be effective in the PAC
12.Wynn had lots of issues in the second half of last season and
nobody knows how he's going to perform coming back from shoulder surgery.Utah's QB situation is more precarious this year than it's been in many
"You're a little over-optimistic expecting high school numbers to translate
to college level performance."UofU,I think we'll
all be pleasently suprised at how well both the QB's do in spring practice. But
no question about it, the Utes will need to have Wynn ready to go next fall...
at least for a few games.
hedgehogOnly someone who lives under a bubble of delusion in
Michigan would think that comparing a true freshman quarterback who was
splitting time with another quarterback, with a full-time starter, would give
you a valid comparison of the two quarterbacks.Skywalker was
correct. The only valid comparison is the 2nd half of the season when both
quarterbacks were playing at their best.If Wynn performed poorly in
the face of good competition, that's more of an indictment of his quarterbacking
abilities heading into the PAC 12 where the competition will be stiffer every
TDS troll here (not really here to troll, just to comment)As much as
I hate to admit it, the Utes have proven that they can reload on defense. I
crossed my fingers last year after the Utes only returned 3 starters from the
previous year's defense hoping that they would finally be weak, but you proved
me wrong, congratulations. I also didn't think that a good defensive line would
matter if the entire back seven were only good-to-average. I was proven wrong
again. (Stupid good Ute defensive line)!So time will tell how Utah
fares in the Pac-12, but until further notice, it looks like Utah will
continually field good defenses. I will say this, that the toughest defenses in
the league will wear down if the QB has problems or if there isn't at least a
steady running back that can keep the offense on the field. I'm surprised how
well you guys held up against Boise State because it seems like the Utes
couldn't convert a first down to save their lives. But, Boise only scored 26
points. It should have been way more. Good luck this spring!
SoCalUteWhatever.Utah fans also thought that Henderson
was better than Jimmer last year.Heaps will be an All-American
before he's finished his career at BYU.Check out the video at
PlanetBYU of Heaps passing a football through the basketball hoop from the 10th
row in the Marriott Center ON HIS FIRST ATTEMPT.I don't see anybody
on Utah's roster that even comes close to that kind of passing ability.
". The only valid comparison is the 2nd half of the season when both
quarterbacks were playing at their best."Coronblew,Ok, let's try again.Does your anaylisis include similar
competition? how about shoulder surgery?Maybe the true analysis is
inconclusive. But to chest pound that Heaps is heisman worthy and that Wynn is
trash.... well, as I say ... simply delusional.
Looks like Kwitt is already moving and blending the team to perform better next
year. Finding the best player for each position is what he does best. Can't wait and....Go Utes!
Hedgehog,You always conveniently leave out the most important
variables to your arguments and comparisons.Wynn- Sophmore- Had a
year in the program to learn the system with 6 games experience under his belt
heading into the 2010 season. Heaps- Freshman- Arrived on campus
spring of 2010, split the reps at QB until the 4th game of the season. If you compare Wynn's and Heaps freshman highlights, Heaps owns Wynn. 2,313yds
to 1,329, 15td's to 8.And lets look at the head to head for the BYU
vs. Utah game. Wynn- 13/30 199yds 1TD 1int Rating:103.38Heaps-22/37 238yds 1TD 1int Rating:114.73Also, Wynn's injury was
sustained in practice the week after the Y game. Check it.However, Heaps
was playing with broken ribs against the Utes.The problem with Wynn
is he just hasn't progressed. He is small, un-athletic, and clearly intimidated
on the field. Not to mention his already minimal skills will take a hit due to
this injury to his throwing arm. Hopefully one of the other QB's steps up or
its gonna be ugly in the PAC.
How about broken ribs hedgy?Heaps played most of the Utah game with
a dislocated rib, and still outperformed Wynn head-to-head.
"Wynn- Sophmore- Had a year in the program to learn the system with 6 games
experience under his belt heading into the 2010 season."Jeffe,just so you know, Wynne has played in only 4 more games than
Heeps. And if we're now taking in last year let's not forget the "freshman
"Wynn" with 3 games under his belt took the tds to overtime...
followed that up with a MVP performance against CAl.On a sidenot:
Thee Ohio State looks like they're in the market for a new coach...I would guess
Kwhitt get's a call later this week .... and declines the offer yet again.
Jeffe,Wynn hurt his shoulder in the ISU game. In practice after the
BYU hit dislocated for the 2nd time and he had to have surgery, but, the
original shoulder injury was ISU.Scenic view,The minute
football is played on a bball court without receivers or defenders, I will stop
laughing at your comment.
hedgehogWynn had over half a season to learn the Utah offense before
he stepped onto the field... BIG difference between that and Heaps starting his
first game right after fall camp ended.From Poinsettia Bowl MVP to
TCU, ND embarrassment, not exactly the kind of shining endorsement you'd hope
for for your starting QB heading into your first season in a BCS conference.But, if you're not worried, the Utes should be fine. Afterall, hedgehog,
you're famous for your prognostication skills.btw, Heaps outplayed
the more experienced Wynn, and the Cougars would have won if Anae hadn't decided
to go ultra-conservative with his play calling after Jake had moved BYU inside
Utah's 20 on 4 of 5 passing with plenty of time left to score a TD.
pocyUteYou obviously haven't watched the video if you're
laughing.Wynn is slow, injury prone and a mediocre passer at
best.More power to U if you think you can beat USC with Wynn.At least the Utes have the 2nd easiest schedule in the PAC 12, so there
won't be any excuses for finishing in the bottom half of the conference.
Wow, some of these comments are very immature. Good luck in spring
ball Utes. Hopefully Wynn heals up quickly and you guys represent our state in
the new Pac 12! It'll be interesting to see how the offense shapes up with Chow
at the helm. Personally, I thought the spread offense was the best system for
your strengths, because you had so much speed to spread the ball around to on
the field. As far as the Heaps argument, Wynn is a great
quarterback, but NOBODY who watched that game would say Wynn was better than
Heaps. That being said, the Utes won the game and obviously football is about
more than just the QB. I can't believe spring ball is here!!Go Cougs!
Hedgehog,Wynn started the last 6 games for the Utes in 2009, and 10
games in 2010. Not to mention Wynn had the entire off season to study films and
learn the Offense, took the majority of the reps in Spring and fall camps
heading into the 2010 season, and had most of the offensive playmakers returning
for 2010. Compare that to:Heaps arrived on campus
January 2010, split reps with Riley Nelson, and James Lark in Spring camp.
Split reps with Riley Nelson through fall camp and the first 4 games of the
season under the ridiculous 2 QB system. Had no big time players returning for
2010. And as far as a freshman Wynn taking BYU to overtime in 2009
and losing, the same could be said about Freshman Jake Heaps burning a
highly-touted Utah D for 238 yards in the air and only losing by 1 point after a
horrible blotched call by the officials, and a miracle field goal block. Jake
put BYU in the position for the upset. The comparison between Heaps
and Wynn is not even close my friend. Heaps will be a great at BYU. Wynn
will be forgotten in 5yrs.
Swoop,please explain to me how throwing a ball through a hoop
translates to success on a football field. So yes, I'm still laughing.also, please show me in my statement where I said anything about Utah beating
USC. In fact, I didn't touch on that issue at all. I was merely
pointing out that Jeffe was wrong in his statement that Wynn's injury occurred
after the BYU game, and expressing the chuckle that I got from scenic views
statement. Hey, Papa John hit a half court shot, but I don't see him in the
Capt. CougI think your comment about Heaps and Wynn were pretty
accurate, however, at the end of last season, most people would have thought
Wynn was on the fast-track to stud-dom. I was disappointed in his performances
in big games, but I don't know how much of that is from injury vs. Wynn's inborn
limitations as a qb.I respectfully disagree with you asessement on
the Utah offense changing, however. The spread needs a qb who can run, and Wynn
just can't. DE's never had to respect the option read because they knew they
could tackle the running back and still get up and tackle Wynn for a loss. That
isn't a knock on Wynn, it was a coaching error by putting Wynn in an untenable
situation. Wynn is definitely cut out better of a west coast style of offense.
PocyUte, Wynn may have gotten beat up against ISU, but he was never
sidelined, which would indicate the injury was not too serious. It just sounds
like a poor excuse for his awful performances against TCU, ND, and BYU. Utah's own publication "Block U" said this:"Wynn's injury happened sometime this week and did not play a role in his
struggles against the Cougars Saturday."The fact is Wynn was
healthy enough to be on the field and his throwing seemed unaffected by the
injury, so I doubt the injury was severe enough to make a difference. K-Whitt
probably just wanted there to be some excuse for the beating they received by
TCU and ND, and BSU. In which Utah was outscored 101-13. Utah needed to
regain some credibility on their way to the PAC. The truth is Wynn
is a mediocre QB. He reached his full potential as a Sophmore,his skill and
game performance have not progressed. I truly do wish the best for Utah football
in the future in all but 1 game each season.. But that fact is, no offense,
especially under Norm Chow, is successful without a great QB.
pocyUte,I agree with your comments. A spread offense needs an
athletic, mobile QB. I guess I was just looking at the rest of the offense. In
past Ute seasons ('06,'08) it would have been difficult to get all those
receivers off the field. But, with the addition of Langi, a pro-style offense
makes sense. As far as Wynn goes, in my humble as pie opinion, it
was probably a mixture of injury, nerves and confidence. Heaps made some
mistakes early in his career and seemed to work through those. Wynn had a great
freshman season and seemed to stumble once he started making mistakes and people
started second guessing him. The injury probably added to all of that. He was
also looking over his shoulder at Cain at the end of the season. The perfect
storm for a lack of confidence. I'm sure we'll see an improved Wynn this next
year, although I think Shreve could be pretty special. Should be fun
to watch both teams! (Yes, I can admit that as a Coug)
CordonBleu (1 of 3):"The only valid comparison is the 2nd half
of the season when both quarterbacks were playing at their best."I wouldn't exactly consider that a "valid comparison". A
"valid comparison" would show that in the final 6 games of each teams'
seasons:(1) 2009 Wynn (Freshman year) -- QB rating 130.75vs.
Wyo (7-6) -- 137.06vs. UNM (1-11) -- 169.81@ TCU (12-1) -- 111.55vs. SDSU (4-8) -- 120.28@ ybU (11-2) -- 86.91Poinsettia Bowl vs.
Cal (8-5) -- 173.03Opponent record: 43-33 (0.566)(2)
2010 Wynn -- QB rating 139.85@ AFA (9-4) -- 124.92vs. TCU (13-0) --
79.24@ ND (8-5) -- 98.19@ SDSU (9-4) -- 175.78vs. ybU (7-6) --
103.38Opponent record: 46-19 (0.708)(3) 2010 Heaps
(Freshman year) -- QB rating 116.16vs. Wyo (3-9) -- 100.58vs. UNLV
(2-11) -- 162.25@ CSU (3-9) -- 242.64vs. UNM (1-11) -- 137.51@
Utah (10-3) -- 114.73NM Bowl vs. UTEP (6-7) -- 171.70Opponent
record: 25-50 (0.333)
CordonBleu (2 of 3):Do you think that its possible that Heaps
QB-rating improvement over his last 6-games MIGHT have had more to do with
facing only ONE team with a winning record, rather than demonstrating any REAL
personal growth? Heres a couple OTHER looks at a valid
comparison(s):2010 Head-to-Head:CSU: Wynn-206.43,
Heaps-242.64.....Edge: HeapsAFA: Wynn-124.92, Heaps-21.00.....Edge:
WynnWyo: Wynn-143.98, Heaps-100.58.....Edge: WynnTCU: Wynn-79.24,
Heaps-58.81.....Edge: WynnSDSU: Wynn-175.78, Heaps-107.20.....Edge:
WynnWynn WINS!Freshman year Head-to-Head:Wyo:
Wynn-137.06, Heaps-100.58.....Edge: WynnUNM: Wynn-169.81,
Heaps-137.51.....Edge: WynnTCU: Wynn-111.55, Heaps-58.81.....Edge:
WynnSDSU: Wynn-120.28, Heaps-107.20.....Edge: WynnWynn WINS
again!Wynn ALSO wins the POSTSEASON head-to-head by beating 8-5 Cal
in the Poinsettia Bowl with a 173.03 QB rating to Heaps 171.70 rating vs. a
lower quality opponent in 6-7 UTEP.
CordonBleu (3 of 3):Freshman year FIRST 6 games:Wynn vs.
Wyo (7-6) -- 137.06vs. UNM (1-11) -- 169.81@ TCU (12-1) -- 111.55vs. SDSU (4-8) -- 120.28@ ybU (11-2) -- 86.91Poinsettia Bowl vs.
Cal (8-5) -- 173.03Opponent record: 43-33 (0.566)Heapsvs. UWa. (7-6) -- 104.37@ AFA (9-4) -- 21.00@ FSU
(10-4) -- 89.92Vs. UNR (13-1) -- 96.08@ USU (4-8) -- 84.59vs.
SDSU (9-4) -- 107.20Opponent record: 52-27 (0.658)If
you think its fair to compare QB productivity scores between one school playing
against 0.708 competition, with the other lining up against a 0.333, then I
think it would be even MORE equitable to measure Wynns 0.566 vs. Heaps 0.658.
And in the case of Freshman year FIRST 6 games....once again, its Wynn,
hands-down the winner.Edge: Wynn.
pocyUteIf you don't understand the correlation between being able to
throw an extremely accurate pass and being a great quarterback, then you
obviously don't know as much about football as you pretend to know.
"although I think Shreve could be pretty special."Captiancougar,I secretly agree. Let's see how things go in spring
practice but I think the name Shreve is going to be discussed in great detail
Naval VetYour stats prove nothing! Heaps was playing
much better than Wynn by the end of the season.BYU 5-1 in their last
6 games, including that all-important bowl win, which, for Utah fans, is always
the end all, be all of the college football season, regardless of how the
regular season went.Utah 3-3 in their last 6 games, including 3
humiliating losses and 3 lucky wins.btw, I noticed you didn't post
Heaps QB for the 6 games. That, of course, would have totally destroyed that
point of your carefully chosen stats.
All these comparisons between Wynn and Heaps are meaningless.I'm one
Utah fan that would love to have Heaps on our team. I'm just hoping that some
of the rumors that I hear about him are true and maybe he will be on our team if
the honor code strikes again.As for what this article is talking
about - I'm excited for the first season in the PAC 12!!! I hope we can compete
well and go to a bowl game - no matter what else is said, we are part of
something great. I can't wait to see teams like USC, UCLA and Oregon on a
regular basis. No more trips to Laramie or preparing against the cut blocks of
AFA. Even if we are middle of the PAC, it's a huge step forward.I
love hearing all the excuses from coog fans though as to why they lost. Keep
them coming.Kyle will have this team ready to compete just like he
does every year.Go Utes!!!
Jeffefirst of all Block U is not run by the school, it is a property
of sportsblog in association with CBSsports. So to say it is "Utah's own
publication," is flat out wrong.Now, a very reputable news
source, which I and many others like to refer to as "ESPN" reported,
"Wynn initially hurt his shoulder in Utah's 68-27 win over Iowa State on
Oct. 9."Now, you say his throwing was unaffected. That's you
opinion. In my opinion, having seen every game which Wynn has played in, and
most of them live, is that his throwing was definitely affected. As a freshman,
he could throw the ball 50 yards with some zip on it (See complete offense at
TCU in '09)However, in 2010 it looked like he was stuggling to get
the ball 30-40 yards down the field. The fact is, neither of us know
how much he was affected by the injury. You will have your opinion of him, and
I will have mine. I just think it is important to look at all the facts
involving situation, and some that you have cited are incorrect.
Sportsfan,And if you think that throwing a football through a hoop
is anything like reading a defense, throwing to a moving target, while being
chased by 300 lb lineman, then you don't know that much about football
either.I'm not saying it isn't important to be accurate as a
quarterback. I'm not saying it isn't an impressive feat. What I am saying is,
that Jake Heaps throwing a football through a basketball hoop from the 10th row
and 99 cents will still only get you a 32 oz. soda. It may only take 89 cents
if they are on sale. It doesn't make him a great quarterback or serve as an
indicator of his future All-american, or as the litmus test for passing ability
as Scenicview intimated in his initial statement.
"I'm sure a lot of folks are sweating bullets."Drones the
troll voice from beneath his bubble of delusion in Michigan.Panic is
setting in up on hill.We don't have a quarterback. BYU has a great
quarterball, lets take him.We don't have a basketball coach. BYU has
a great coach, lets take him.Dreams on! It's not going to happen.
I'm going to take a cue from fresnogirl (refrain from spreading rumors as facts)
and correct a previous poster...a cougar fan no-less."Face it,
[the] Utes have not matched up that well against PAC-10 opponents."----sammyg Hmmm. How bout I face this: reality.-Oregon
St. (last played in 2008, Utah WON 31-28, avenging a loss the year
previously*)-Oregon (last played 2009, Oregon won 31-24*, Utah won their
previous match-up in 2004)-Arizona (last played in 2005, Utah WON
27-24---Utah also won the year previously too in Tucson 23-6*)-Arizona St.
(?)-UCLA (last played in 2007, Utah WON 44-6 ---the Bruins were ranked
#11, venging a loss the year previously)-USC (last played in 2001, Utah
WON 10-6*)-Cal (last played in 2009, Utah WON 37-27*, Utah also beat Cal
the match-up previously 31-24 in '03)-Washingon St. (last played in 2000,
Utes lost 21-38, Utah won the year before 27-7*)-Stanford (last played in
1996, Utes won 17-10*)-Washington (?)-Colorado (last played in
1962...lol, Utah won 37-21)
Why do all of the professional cherpers have to start their cherping before the
season even starts. Utah always comes up with great defensive players. This year
is going to be a challenge. It will be fun to see Kyle work his magic. Offense
will be more interesting. I am a BYU fan but I watch as many Utah Football games
as the best Utah fans. I want Kyle to succeed. He is a great coach. As for the
QB's. Both are young and have a lot to learn. I think watching as the season
progresses will tell the story. Oh, by the way I heard Heaps had 10 tough downs
the other day in 7 on 7 drills. Apo is a new toy with great speed. I am sure you
will get to know them real quick in Sept. Here is hoping neither team will have
nasty injury problems. You will need all the players you can get in the cheap
shot PAC 10+2Jeff
MiPHow have the Utes fared in road games against PAC 10 teams with
winning records? (not neutral sites, but real road games played on the home
field of the opponent)
@ almost everyone who has posted Take note: He who drives by looking through
the rear view mirror ends up going backward. My sights are looking to this
coming season, so all of this Wynn vs Heaps gargbage is worthless
information.The past does Not equal the future.My money is on the
Utes going forward.
Jeffe,I agree with you, the rumormongering is ridiculous. I was just
busting your chops, block U, though a blog is much different than a message
board.As for why Wynn played, I can only speculate, and I've heard
tons of speculation from people close to the program, but obviously not from the
2 people who know (Whit and Wynn). My guess is it was a mixture of Wynn playing
down the injury, and Whit feeling that a partially effective Wynn gave the Utes
a better chance of winning than a 100% Cain.FWIW, I think Heaps is a
very good QB and would love to have him in the program. Like Cougar Claws said,
I think Wynn's struggles last year were a combination of injury, defenses having
film on him, mentally scarring from TCU, and then an offense that didn't really
cater to his strengths.
sammyg,MiP stole my thunder (very well done too) do you do much
research before making such ridiculous posts?
Coach Whit rocks. The Utes are gonna be just fine. I can't wait to see the Utes
surprise the Pac members. That's gonna be just plain fun to watch. I'm also hoping, now that we are not in the same Conference, that we can be
more supportive of one another. After all, we truly are brother schools -- with
the same founding father. Not many schools can say that. Go Cougs!
The Utes will be very surprised at how hard it is to win on the road in the
PAC12. The MTN had three good teams last year; the PAC will have 6 minimum. I
don't think Utah will be one of them.
I was worried about Wynn in a spread this year but now that its Chow time, i
think Wynn will be the man! He's a great qb but he aint no spread qb. He's a
pocket qb who will now be part of a pocket offense so look out!!!