@Kami...I can answer that for you-from VERY personal experience. I understand
that this is an anonymous forum in many respects, so you can choose to believe
me or not. Either way, what I tell you is the truth. I made mistakes, I had no
scholarship, I was dismissed from the University. As one who went through this
process, I know how BYU and the other church schools deal with students across
the board. I do know that there are extenuating circumstances in some instances,
and not everybody is "kicked out"! But, I was. I was allowed to return
to BYU to finish my schooling, yet it took a while. It was one of the most
trying times of my life, yet I learned! That is what human beings are supposed
to do; learn from their mistakes and not repeat them. The dismissal of Brandon
is not intended as a punishment, rather to encourage growth, learning, and
understanding that there are consequences to each and every action, regardless
of who you are.
John C.C wrote, "Ultimately BYU owes its long-term success to its
standards. Any other foundation is not sustainable."While I
honor and sustain BYU's morals-based Honor Code, I'm not sure it alone can be
the foundation of any institution of higher learning.Academic
excellence, cutting-edge research, superior instruction are three time-tested
'standards' upon which great universities have built their reputation.
To: patriot | 1:50 p.m. March 3, 2011 Cedar Hills, UT - Do you even read what
you write "What about the fans that pay the tickets to watch. How will they
be feeling after each of the remaining losses that are sure to keep mounting
without Brandon? Yes another casulty from the honor code. Seems like nothing
good ever comes from this or am I missing something here?" A young man is
dealing with the cosequences of his decisions and actions and you are worried
about fans? I believe the bus left the station and you missed the bus on this
one. You are telling us that nothing good comes out of a life experience where
an individual stands accountable for his actions and grows a little taller for
working through this? What universe do you live in my friend?
@UU32I am a BYU alum and support their decision. Not because I think
I am better than anyone, or that I haven't had my own mountain of mistakes, but
because they are doing it with Brandon's best interest in mind. Caring for
someone does not mean they should "get away" with certain behaviors,
but BECAUSE we care for them a consequence is enforced. The ONLY reason it is
public is because he is a public figure. That was not purposefully dealt out to
humiliate him.There is a difference between casting stones and
having consequences for ones actions. From the comments I've read, I think most
BYU fans and others feel for Brandon and wish him the best. I do too. We don't
take pleasure in his suffering or think we are better than him. We ALL make bad
choices that lead to painful consequences. Not having a consequence sends the
message that whatever the violation of honor is, is fine or no big deal. It's
not. We are expected to be the best of who we can be, which brings ultimate joy
to ourselves and others.
People keep wondering if BYU will let Brandon back on the team next year. What
makes you think he wants back on the team? Brandon has the skills to play for
any pac10 team and I wouldn't be suprised to see him at Arizona next season.
of course BYU supports its honor code and how it enforces it. The real question
is what about the player that was suspended - yes the student athlete and his
family. What about the other players on the team. What about the fans that pay
the tickets to watch. How will they be feeling after each of the remaining
losses that are sure to keep mounting without Brandon? Yes another casulty from
the honor code. Seems like nothing good ever comes from this or am I missing
Hold on........ How many posts on here are even the truth? There is so much
garbage being said on here that isn't even the truth yet you are all on here
judging each other. The lies told on this forum continues to amaze me. Most of
you who post, can't even tell the truth. The trolls, the wanna-be's, etc....
"The Lord is no respecter of persons." Principles are eternal and
there really are consequences to actions--both positive and negative. Agency is
a beautiful principle.
Driving home to St. George from Las Vegas yesterday I listened to the Las Vegas
sports station about the Davies situation. After two hours of listening to their
rants against BYU and the "Mormon Church", I finally called in; I just
couldn't take it anymore. Even though I frequently hear their pro UNLV and
anti-BYU vents, it was as though they had bottled something up for years and
finally blew. They hinted over and over that BYU was racist, that discouraging
coffee was "a superstition, dating back several thousand years", that
religion was basically childish and stupid. For some reason, the screener put me
to the front of the calls, because I said I thought they were out of touch with
society if they could not admit there is a right and a wrong, somewhere. They
yelled over me - actually asked me what was wrong with premarital sex. Silence.
I asked them if they ever draw any line in the sand as there are many young
people listening to their program, and does the fact that many people do
something make it right? I admit I was dumb, (but Romney and Huntsman are in for
A fine article by Brad Rock. If BYU is going to have an honor code, it has to
apply to everyone equally.Regarding the basketball team this year,
it's gonna hurt. I doubt that they will go very far in the NCAA's -- too many
Bigs are gone. A healthy Chris Collinsworth might have been able to make up the
lack of size in the middle, but now there's no one on this year's roster who can
fill that role. (No insult intended to Anderson -- but he doesn't have the
speed and inside presence of a Chris Collinsworth or a Brandon Davies.)Setting the Basketball consequences aside, I hope that Brandon Davies can work
through this, and remain at BYU. Everything I have seen or read about him
indicates that he's a fine young man. All of us make mistakes -- all of us have
to set things right and then move on. I hope that everyone embraces him, and
that he is able to return next year. Brandon, if you happen to read this, know
that we are with you and pray for your success.
doc33:It seems that the infraction may have been self-reported. If
that is the case, it says a lot (of good) about the character of Mr. Davies
because he knew would be at the "mercy of the court."This
is a very tricky case for BYU. I can't help but feel that those who are taking
the hard line on these posts have very little experience dealing with these
situations. The reality is hundreds if not thousands of current students at BYU
have made the same mistake. Church discipline, especially if self-reported,
would almost certainly be informal probation unless there was a predatory
pattern. The suspension from the team, combined with the unavoidable public
airing and humiliation, seems incredibly harsh in comparison. (The church
ceased public disclosure of church discipline decades ago.) In my opinion, this
should have been dealt with at a time when public scrutiny could have been
minimized, which in this case could have been four weeks later. (I could care
less that the team would have benefited.)I think maybe too much
weight was given to concerns that BYU would be labeled inconsistent or
hypocritical, and a young man has paid the price.
Uncle Gadianton:"If the so-called "Honor Code"
actually meant anything, there would be several individuals no longer associated
with the University. Instead, those individuals are lionized, honored, and in
some cases, still employed at BYU. "Fine. Kindly name ONE
person who is in violation of the Honor Code who is lionized, honored and still
employed at BYU. Let it out. Let us hear who they are, their name, what they
did, and how you know. Oh, and just one please, and don't tell me
it is inappropriate to call them out here. It is not as if you have a problem
insinuating hypocrisy on the part of the whole university.
I find this article a dreary appology. It's as if the writer fears
'embarrassment' so much he cobbles it up, when in fact, most of the response has
been decidedly favorable. In any event, the Honor Code and its enforcement are
not meant to address public popularity, but to benefit the spiritual development
of the miscreant. I hope that in considering all the facts and circumstances
the BYU administration does not get caught up in the notoriety of this event
(decides it has to preserve honor in public) and can forgive someone who has
displayed repentance. This does not seem necessarily a Michael Vick situation.
Isn't it always better to forgive? That he is an athlete and a prominent
student should not be the guiding principle of the final decision.
Keeping promises and commitments can be difficult but are the right thing to do.
It is a hard lesson learn but what is the lesson in dishonesty.
In my experience with the BYU Athletic Department, I encountered dishonest and
dishonorable behavior, which directly harmed me and my family. This was brought
to the highest echelons of the University and its Board of Trustees. However,
despite the so-called "Honor Code," the incident was not remedied or
corrected, and not one person involved was dismissed from the University.If the so-called "Honor Code" actually meant anything, there
would be several individuals no longer associated with the University. Instead,
those individuals are lionized, honored, and in some cases, still employed at
@John Corrill: Your post misses several important points. This athelete knew the
rules when he chose BYU. Choosing a college is not the same as living in the
country where you were born. He also knew what the consequences were going to be
if he disobeyed them. They are clearly outlined when you apply to the school or
accept a place on the team. The punishment may seem harsh to you, but he chose
them freely and accepted the benefits that came with attending this school over
another one, including scholarship money. That money came with certain
obligations.Throughout life he will face harsh consequences for
violating his committments. This is only basketball--a mere game. Better to
learn now the value of having honor than to learn it as you destroy a family or
find yourself in jail. College is a critical time for determining who you are
and how you will live--and learning the consequences of your actions.
This may well lead to a personal victory for Mr. Davies. Other victories are
Considering the way the team played tonight, it is apparent that there is more
to this story beyond an honor code violation. Obviously, someone dropped a dime
on this player. Who was it? Another player? Maybe a jealous one? Was there a
racial component to this matter?At any rate, this whole episode
could ruin what has been to now, a splendid season. Too bad. I am sure more
will be revealed in the coming days.
Rock is clearly a BYU fan. Why does he ever even write about the Utes?
Very well written article. So true the statement that BYU doesn't exist because
of its athletics, but vice versa (paraphrased). We've forgotten that. Some
people think this is foolish or old fashioned but I think its great. The real
interesting thing will be if BYU does well in the tournament. Here's hoping
they will. Who knows? Maybe it will give them an edge or chip on their
shoulder. I, for one, sure hope it does. And I'm pained to see him go. But if
Davies can overcome this, he'll be a better person and likely a better
ballplayer too, becoming mentally stronger. This won't be the last time a good
player goes through this at BYU, the timing of it all just stinks.
None of us need to know what the infraction was, although many have educated
guesses. Its not important, really, and publicizing speculation (whether it
turns out to be true or not) is probably kind of irresponsible in most instances
(not all though). Towing the line and not making an exception is ultimately
good for the University, as its an opportunity to put its money where its mouth
is (even though it'll lose tons of money if BYU doesn't go far in the tourney).
This will shine well for the University cuz people will remember that it has
standards and won't hypocrocize themselves in a sticky situation. He made a
mistake, and unfortunately doing so let his team down and millions of fans,
including me. For those who don't understand how people could agree with a
decision like this without knowing the details, maybe you've never REALLY
trusted someone or something. That's not meant to offend, but I'm going to
pretty much always (via default)side with the school on decisions like this.
Its like trusting your intuition or having faith.
So the outside of my house needs painting, I have broken branches from the
winds, my neighbors tree leaves a bunch of those awful gumballs, they are the
size of a gumball and prickly. So come one everyone that is judging right now,
Brandon knew what he was doing. I am disappointed that he let the team down. I
wish him the best.
UU32 | 5:58 p.m. March 2, 2011 Bountiful, UT Let he who is without
sin cast the first stone. If that is your best argument, it is
laking. This is not about he who is without sin, this is about signing an
agreement. To the outside world, this is a travisty that should be quickly
forgiven because it was not against the law. I am in the military and I have
secret clearance. If I were to violate the rules for a secret clearance, I would
lose my job. I know the rules, I know the consequences. For example, if I were
to claim bankruptcy because of misue of my own funds, I lose the secret
clearance and its not against the law. There is no difference here. Every
student, not just athletes signed up front understanding the rules and the
consequences. If this were just a student and not a student athlete, there would
be no discussion. The student would leave quietly and no one would know the
difference except that students family. If BYU had a losing record, no one would
care. Go BYU, you will be fine.
Your word is all you have. Brandon has kept his word and his honor. Good luck
tonight Cougs, a new star will rise from these ashes.
People (including politicians) can learn from BYU's courage in supporting
"honor." The school is demonstrating courage by supporting values
over money, and supporting the student by recognizing an error and allowing him
to make a correction.I wish Davies the best, and hope he comes back
next year.FYI, the people that are probably mad about the money lost
is the MWC. If BYU goes deep in the NCAA Tournament, the MWC gets future year's
cash for BYU's efforts. Same thing happened to the Utes when the MWC was
created. The future years' cash stayed in the WAC.
Some of us may spend eternity complaining about where we end up after this life,
but we will still be where we chose to be. Free Agency is God's greatest gift to
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
@ John CorrillThe difference is freedom of choice. You can choose to
go to BYU or not. You can choose to obey the Honor Code or not. However, once
you've chosen to go to BYU and you've signed the Honor Code, you no longer have
the choice of disobeying the Honor Code without consequence. You may consider it
archaic or overly harsh. That is your opinion. I think you're wrong. Some of us
still believe that a man's word is his bond. Brandon Davies will suffer the same
consequence that any other student in his position will suffer. Yes, he's not
allowed to play Basketball for the rest of the year - too bad. This situation
has very little to do with Basketball. In fact, at this point, Basketball is a
secondary concern. You may not understand this, but I assure you, Brandon
does.Brandon, if you read this, hang in there! While there are
consequences for actions, there is also forgiveness and fellowship. You'll get
through this. All of us BYU supporters are pulling for you. I hope to see you
back on the court next year!
People complain that athletes get treated with no consequences and then BYU has
the backbone to do just that, they are criticized. The only person at fault here
is Davies. He knew the rules and he chose to break them. Yes, others break the
rules and don't get caught. That doesn't make it OK. I'm glad BYU has taken a
tougher stand on this topic over the last few years. It's time these young
adults start understanding for every action there is a reaction. Hopefully he
will learn a valuable lesson and everyone will move on from it. As for those
rolling their eyes across the nation....perhaps saluting a school like BYU that
has such standards. And by the way I also have great respect for those athletes
at Utah, Utah State and Weber State who live self-imposed honor codes.
@OsgrathI am a member of the LDS church and feel quite comfortable
saying that this punishment is inappropriate and overly harsh. You have your
agency in this church to think for yourself and make your own judgments.
For people who seem to be angry about the results of an Honor Code infraction as
being overly harsh and unfair, we should consider that the Board of Trustees of
the University oversees every policy that is enacted. They go so far as to
approve hiring at a certain level. The Board of Trustees control much of what
happens at BYU.The Board of Trustees consists, of course, of the
Prophet/President of the Church that sponsors BYU, along with his counselors and
the Quorum of Twelve Apostles. I'm pretty sure they are aware of high profile
cases like this. If they feel it is unjust, they will step in. The fact that
they did not step in with Harvey or Brandon signals to me that they approve of
the decisions. If you not a member of the Church, this says nothing.
If you are a member of the Church and are still upset at the actions here, it
might be good to consider whom you are upset at.
I'm very proud to be an Alumni of the archaic BYU- a little easier to be in the
world and not of the world today. This basketball season will be over completely
in a month- the integrity of the University and it's foundation is ongoing-
despite all the nattering nabobs of negativity.
@allenoilIt's real simple... either your word is good or it isn't. The
code is to strive to live a higher moral standard. BYU has been doing this for
a very long time. It's not something that just materialized. It gets so blown
out of proportion when it happens in sports...especially if there is a ethnic
minority player involved. It applies to faculty as well especially on political
issues that the church has taken a position to either support or to oppose. Not
all faculty are members either. They have boundries as well and are not to
cross those boundries. At BYU... living a standard and receiving an education
are more important than even having a championship team. Sorry but that's just
the way it is. It's not something that any BYU fan is going to enjoy
happening...but it's something that makes BYU a little more unique. Just like
playing basketball on sundays. It's a choice that BYU will always... not to
take the lower path. The purpose of the code is similar it allows you to use
your free agency to chose to do the same thing.
Every BYU student athlete knows what they are getting into when the go to BYU.
They sign up for it. They are free to pick some place else if they don't want
to abide by the rules there. And if they chose not to that is fine. However I
find it quite sad that a few (small few) for what ever reason choose not to
follow the rules, because there were 100 more hopeful students, who would have
followed the rules, who were right behind them in line hoping to get into BYU
@ Francisco d'AnconiaI agree with you that that just because I
"think the punishment is overly harsh and horrific does not make it
so". I suspect someone in Iran would probably say the same thing to me
regarding the stoning of women.I would also propose that the act of
a person agreeing to the honor code, does not automatically mean that ANY and
ALL decisions rendered by the honor code machine are fair, just or appropriate -
and that we all should rally around that decision and accept it.Frankly, I think it needs to be ridiculed and condemned as overly harsh and
I struggle with this issue. On one hand, I understand BYU's need to enforce the
rules. And if the rules say "if you do X you will be suspended from the
team", you should be suspended from the team. However, I feel for Brandon.
No twenty year old kid should have to go through the media scrutiny that he's
being put through. I'm older than Brandon, and I'm glad the media does not
broadcast everytime I make a mistake, because I make plenty of them.Hang in there Brandon. You have a lot of fans who want to see you back in
Blue and White next year.
I am reminded of a statement made by the president of the University of Oklahoma
while Barry Switzer was coach: "We need to build a school that the football
team can be proud of."Several years ago I attended a fall
football practice at BYU while Lavell was still the coach. There was a young
man there that no one watching could identify. I went and asked him his name
and position. I do not remember his name but he was a wide receiver, an
Afican-American from Los Angeles. I chatted with him for a while. The last
thing I said to him was something to the effect that he should take the honor
seriously because BYU did and would. His name did not appear in the football
press guide that year and I do not think he ever played for BYU. I think he
probably made the right decision for himself and BYU.
Everything will be okay. BYU's mission is NOT to win a national championship.
Brandon Davies, along with many, many other BYU students know the meaning of the
honor code, and still make mistakes and have to suffer the consequences. Members of the LDS Church may work with loving and compassionate Church
leaders to work through sins and transgressions, but there are also consequences
to those...even disfellowship or excommunication. Neither is a form of
punishment, but are structured so that members can return to full fellowship,
with the aforementioned help and loving support of local leaders.It's possible that Mr. Davies is also being offered similar avenues that might
possibly bring him back to basketball at BYU in the future, which he may or may
not choose to accept. It's none of our business what he did, or what he chooses
to do from here on out. We wish him the best.I'm proud to say that
Brad Rock has been my best friend since we were 7 or 8 years old. Brad, I
congratulate you on your perception and ability to put it into words clearly.
you've been blessed with a great talent.
"Where much is given, much is required". That is the quote I go to for
explaining why it is indeed fair for there to be more severe consequences for
athletes or students on scholarship then for students who are simply paying
their tuition. In this case, Davies was given much. He was not only given the
opportunity to represent his University in basketball, but was also given the
opportunity to have his education paid for at the same time. He knew what the
terms of these opportunities were when he decided to play basketball for BYU. He
knew what the consequences were. But he failed to live up to these standards.
With all that said, I hope the best for Davies. I hope he is able to
get through whatever his problem is, and that he will be able to come back and
help the basketball team continue to be excellent for the next two years.Go Cougars!
@ John CorrillWhether you were "trying" to establish a
moral equivalency or not, that's what the effect of your statement was, and it
was quite offensive. And just because you think the punishment is overly harsh
and "horrific" does not make it so. You don't know what the
infraction was, neither does any one else here. Agreeing to the honor code
means that you accept the consequences of your actions as determined by the
administration at BYU. It's your opinion that the institution is mistreating
Brandon. I and many other people disagree with you.
The honor code has more teeth now than it did 25 years ago... and I applaud byu
for enforcing it better. In the 80s my close friend went to BYUs summer
football camp and noticed that a high profile BYU football player was quite open
with the wad of chew deposited between his cheek & gum. Kuddos BYU
I remember attending BYU a long time ago and my roommate had an honor code
violation with a coed. Both were expelled from school. They got married. I never
had a violation (thankfully) because I would have lost my scholarship. I never
felt the code was a burden but a blessing. It helped me and those I ran around
with keep the commandments and graduate with honor.All of our
children attended BYU (Provo or Hawaii) and never had a problem with the code
either. Most were on full scholarships. One is a radiologist, one is heading to
Law school this fall, one is microbiologist and one is a homemaker and one was
killed by a drunk driver. We all support the honor code. Only the best and
brightest need apply. If you are lucky enough to get into the awesome school
you'll have the time of your life in a clean, Christian school.
Everything will be Ok. Some have worser tragedies than this. It is not the end
of the world.
@ Francisco d'Anconia:No, I am not "trying to establish a moral
equivalency between a young man being kicked off of a basketball team and women
being stoned to death and drunk drivers being executed?"What I
am proposing that the punishment for this "crime" is overly harsh. I
have no problem if BYU want's to have it's rules and consequences, but they
should be commensurate with the act. Agreeing to the honor code and then
breaking it does not mean that a person should be subject punishment that is
overly harsh and horrific. I think for both Unga and Davies, the punishment was
overly brutal.I have every right to judge and express what I think
is an appropriate punishment, because I am a fellow human being. If I see an
institution mistreating another person, I have EVERY right to speak up...as do
Thank you Skywalker, you took the words out of my mouth regarding opinionz
opinion.Suspension is a punishment but Brandon is free to do what he
would like. If he wants to remain at BYU, he will be able to work through the
system. If he chooses to leave, no one can stop him. He is choosing to live the
honor code. Forgiveness will of course come from God.God doesn't
force anyone to do anything either - but you can bet that there are
Opinionz:You miss the boat with your argument. Your insinuate that
there should be no consequence to action. Just because resolving sin is between
one person and God, doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. Someone can be
forgiven of breaking a law or sinning, but isn't there still a consequence to be
had? This is not forced compliance. He signed the Honor Code of his own
volition. He was not forced. He knew the consequences, made a choice, and now
is living with those consequences, which certainly are many.The only
thing about this that is public is that he is off the team for the HC violation.
What would you have them do? Lie and say that it is because of injury? Or
just say that he is off the team and leave the rest to the public and media
speculation? His sins are not public. The consequences of whatever sin have
been made public though.There is no hypocrisy with the Honor Code.
No one "forces" the students to be good. They are shown the rules,
agree to abide, and if they don't, they lose the privilege to attend BYU.
If every student is treated the same? why did they not announce that he can no
longer can attend the school. Are athletes held to a higher standard? Can he
be kicked off the team and still remain in school? Maybe some one can enlighten
Re: John CorrillWho's getting their hand chopped off or eye poked
out? You may feel the punishment is a little too harsh for the crime (without
really knowing what the crime was) but in the grand scheme of things, the
punishment of not being able to play basketball is very small, even though to
fans all over the country it appears huge, when compared to the consequence of
serious sin. The University, and the Church, is more concerned with the soul of
the individual, not whether they're able to play basketball or not. I guess some
would compare hand-chopping and stoning to not being able to play basketball.
OpinionzYou couldn't be further from the truth.You
obviously don't understand the principle of having an Honor Code, if you believe
that it can have any meaning without consequences for breaking it.Nobody is forced to comply with BYU's Honor Code because nobody is forced to
attend BYU. Those who choose to attend BYU do so with the full understanding of
what's expected when they sign the Honor Code.If you don't want to
abide by BYU's Honor Code, there are thousands of other institutions of high
learning that don't have such restrictions.What would be
hypocritical would be to have an Honor Code and then to allow it to be violated
without any consequences.
I guess the days of Mcmahon are long gone?
@John CorrillSeriously? You're trying to establish a moral
equivalency between a young man being kicked off of a basketball team and women
being stoned to death and drunk drivers being executed? Shame on you.
Representing a basketball team for a major university is a privilege, not a
right. I wish Brandon the best, and hope to see him back at BYU next year, but
he knew the rules going in. And it was Brandon not living up to his commitments
that lead to this situation. Who are you to judge what an appropriate response
is in the first place? This is between BYU and Brandon, no one else. Certainly
@Dennis in Harwich MA: Truth is truth and just because society has lesser
standards does not mean God will accommodate them. Truth will be truth now and
forever... Besides neither you nor I know the details of this incidednt. So we
have neither the knowledge or right to judge what was done.
Brandon, you sure have bad timing!
I'm not sure what @allanoil is so shocked at. Does anyone suspect for a minute
the Y would suspend a student for canoodling or knocking back a cup of coffee?
We support the suspension because we know (OK; we "strongly suspect")
that Davies' infraction was one of the more serious variety that typically
result in suspension or expulsion for any student. Why else would they kick him
off the team? Right now they have every incentive in the world to sweep
violations under the rug when it comes to hoops players. This isn't premature
judgement; this is common sense.
I wonder if the honor code punishments shouldn't be re-evaluated. I mean, we
don't cut people's hands off or poke their eyes out anymore.
Sympathies to Brandon and the team. They counted on him and he let himself and
the team down. Congratulations to BYU for putting principles before athletic
success. Dennis in Harwick, MA thinks that following a greater law is archaic.
That's were the LDS Church and the world part company. It's not archaic, it's
This act by the Honor Code Committee represents everything that both memebers
and non-members hate about BYU...it goes against everything taught in the
scriptures:-It is between she/he and thee-Forgiveness-It
represents the exact kind of forced compliance Satan suggested in his planIf someone has a problem it should be between that person and his or her
religious leader.There is no equality of punishment in this system
(who has been forgiven for similar actions because he or she has a Bishop who is
actually in tune with the Spirit and keeps confidences?).Punishment
should be between God and that person. If someone doesn't want to obey, then the
punishment will come from on high at the appropriate time and place.To take someone's sins to a public forum is worse than any rules violation
could ever be.Oh the hyprocrisy at BYU! How can you Honor Code
dictators even live with yourselves? "I will force them to be good!"
@Dennis:Oh, you mean take the easy road and stand for nothing? Is
that what you did??
@DennisIt's a valuable thing to know that living up to one's word is
more important than winning. It takes guts to do what you say you're going to
do. It's not easy, especially when so much of the world lives off what you can
get from others, rather than living an honorable life. If that's archaic, so be
@ Kami:You miss the point. Of course the cost is higher for a higher
profile individual. That goes without saying, but should Davies get preferential
treatment because he is an athlete. That would be patently unfair to the simple
student who is singled out for the samr infraction.One of the great
bastions of liberal apoplexy in this country is the thought that enough position
or money and you can circumvent justice.Higher profile people need
to recognize that they have more to lose and act accordingly. Sorry, it come
with the territory.My personal opinion is that Cam Newton of Auburn
U was given a pass until after the BCS championship game for exactly the wrong
reasons. If Auburn had had the ***** to act with honor, he'd have been suspended
and let the chips fall. Too much money on the line to let that happen.
@KamiOf course students who have more to lose suffer more. They
were more privileged than an ordinary student, therefore they have more to lose.
It's the same honor code for everyone. It's the same consequence for everyone.
Those who have been given more should worker harder to keep it.
In the Old Testament we can read of the story of Esau and Jacob where in Esau
traded his Birthright to Jacob for a bowl of pottage. Future blessings traded
away for what he wanted at the moment.This situation with Brandon is very
unfortunate; yet this is not a good time for judgments - after all, there are
many of us who also covenanted to an Honor Code at the waters of baptism This is a good time for self-introspection. I must ask myself if I am trading
away future blessings for the things I want now...Good luck Brandon.
If BYU can't recruit players from Provo that will live the honor code, then
where can they recruit players that will live the honor code?
Excellent article. This even is hard on Cougar fans, but not harder on Davies
and the team. I wish them the best. I'm ready to welcome back Davies if the
University would still have him. I've been around Universities most
my adult life. The tragedies I witness from students who have no restraints is
appaling. So much wasted talent and bright futures. I applaud the honor code. It
probably is more misunderstood than anything else.
I hope Brandon transfers from this archaic institution.
How can anyone complain about "honoring" the honor code? This had to
be a serious infraction or the administration would never have had to take
action. And....because this is a private school, they do not have to disclose
anything they do not wish to disclose.BYU is the most sought after
school in the country to attend. (according to a recently published report.) Oh,
that our other colleges and universities could have such high standards. Morals,
ethics, and honor are sorely needed to get our country back on track again.BYU basketball will survive! Take care, Brandon! Thank you for all you
gave us. Now, Go Cougars!
At first I felt kinda bad for Brandon Davies, but after reading this article
everything is in perspective now. I mean, hey, that is the rules, right.A while ago, I felt bad for that woman in Iran who they were going to
stone to death for adultery, but hey, that is the rule in Iran, and if you are
going to live in Iran, you need to live by their rules.Same deal
with drunk drivers in El Salvador - first offense and you get executed by firing
squad. At first it seemed a little harsh, but like Brad said, it is the
principle of the thing, so buckle up and take your punishment.I
mean, I was thinking that a one or two game suspension might be more
appropriate, but then what would that lead to - more people doing what they want
to do instead of living a principle centered life and living up to your
commitments. So I say, good on ya, BYU for executing your principles and
delivering your justice.
@bigsoccerYou are probably the 20th ute troll who has posted BYU
should get rid of athletics today. That is simply your wishful thinking. Utah is
only capable of competing with bYU in a couple of sports so rather than actually
improving yourselves you simply hope for the demise of your better. Pathetic but
pretty standard for ute trolls.
Well written article, and absolutely spot on.BYU means what they say and
they stand for many of the same things that I believe in. Do I love every
element of the honor code? No. But I wasn't forced to sign it either.Kudos to BYU, and I hope Brandon gets whatever he needs to fixed and returns
to action next season.Go Brandon, and Go BYU!
No one should judge Davies about his Honor Code violation. These athletes are
under intense pressure and scutiny. Non-athletic students would likely fold
under the same circumstances.Also, no one should jump all over BYU for
this development. Brandon Davies agreed to abide by the rules when he accepted
his schjolorship. He infracted the rules, and is being held accountable. It's a
tough lesson to learn; but an incredibly valuable one. Too bad most
basketball fans [clearly] have no grasp on the concept of personal
accountability. Otherwise, the sports boards yesterday wouldn't have been filled
with ridicule and hostility towards BYU and the LDS Church for the decision to
suspend Davies just before the start of the NCAA Touney.
@ allanoil, 70% of respondents are saying we trust BYU. We have no details from
the university, which is as it should be, and we have no counter story from
Davies, which I take as a good sign on many fronts. We trust that the university
has not over-reacted or responded to unfounded inuendo. Most of us
grieve for a young man who has been publicly humiliated, as well as disciplined.
We know that, if he will let it happen, the Lord can turn all things to his
good, even this. Most of us pray for him, and others, that struggle to make
things right through the atonement of our Savior.
Ultimately BYU owes its long-term success to its standards. Any other
foundation is not sustainable.
allanoil. It is a matter of honor, integrity and class. If you can't
understand blind support of this code perhaps your lacking in some of these.
Since it happened (whatever it is),I would love to have had it happen a month
from now rather than now but that is not what BYU is about. Everyone (Brandon,
coaches, school and fans) will suffer, but the message being sent is that a
persons future is more important than all the other things. Hopefully Brandon
will eventually be stronger for this and will come back to BYU for 2 more years.
If it weren't for athletics at BYU, that school would have half the student
enrollment gone, they should just get rid of sports down there turn it into
BYU-Utah, and just worry about education then they don't have to worry about the
@allanoil: I can't speak for all of the respondents, but I certainly understand
the results. The infractions don't need to be made public (and I commend BYU in
the majority of the respondents are likely agreeing with is just what Mr. Rock
wrote: when students commit to living by the honor code, they are expected to do
so, and are not exempt because of their membership on sports teams. That being
said, I hope the best for Brandon and the team in this difficult time.
To whom much is given, much is expected. I had to learn that in my early years
and it was the best thing for me. It also is none of our business what he did,
but for me, I threw all my stones in the water. I agree, give him support and
as many others have come through these experiences a better and stronger person,
so will he.
I feel for Davies, and wish him well.As for the team, it's too soon
to tell how much the loss of Davies will affect BYU's run. I've heard some
people already say they're done....which is insane. We'll see what adjustments
Rose makes, but this is a team that can rely on others to do just as well.
Kudos to my alma mater. Although I am a big fan of BYU B-ball, I applaud BYU
for this move. Every student is treated the same at BYU, regardless of status.
No one forced myself or Davies to sign the Honor Code, and it should not be
taken lightly.I have to wonder, though, whether coaches for each
sport have a serious conversation with their athletes at the beginning of each
season warning them about this. Why didn't Davies see what happened to Unga and
take note on what it could do to the rest of his team?
Brad, that was the most well thought out, intelligent article I've yet read on
this matter.I especially love it when you wrote, "Cougar
athletics exist because of BYU, not the other way around."I
hope good people stay close to Davies during this very VERY hard time of his
young life. Making a mistake is bad enough for a young person.
Getting national attention for the mistake while simultaneously letting down
many thousands of people you care about?The pressure must be intense
and I hope he is and will be okay. We're with you, Brandon. It's
hard now, but both BYU and the school will be just fine if good decisions are
made from here on out.
I think we've all seen situations where student athletes have gotten different
treatment than the "rest of us." In the end it doesn't help the player
any. They go through life without any accountability and it usually catches up
with them. Honoring agreements is about honor and we need more of it in
athletics and in life.
I am blown away by the survey that accompanies this article in that an estimated
70% of the respondents agree with the suspension of Mr. Davies when, as far as I
have read, his infractions have not been made public. What are they basing
their opinions on? Just curious.
Without fully understanding the consequences of violating the honor code, it
does seem as though students who have more to loose suffer more consequences.
In other words, what are the consequences for a student who isn't on a sports
team? What are the consequences for a student who isn't on a scholarship? I
don't think I agree with a system that gives more severe consequences to some
students for honor code violations, although I'm not sure how to fix that issue