Comments about ‘Readers' forum: Table Sandstrom's bill’

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Published: Friday, Feb. 18 2011 6:23 p.m. MST

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Vanka
Provo, UT

Ron and Sara, you are up in the night. The Compact is a useless publicity ploy for those who exploit illegal immigration. It is so general and obtuse as to be practically useless for anything but the purpose for which it was created: to further exploit illegal immigrants.

Sandstrom's bill has to deal with reality and specifics. It can't spout off about motherhood and apple pie and get away with such high-sounding, vague, political language.

Wake up and smell the churros, my friends.

John C. C.
Payson, UT

Opposition to immigrants is based on a few false premises.

False: Our immigration laws are good.
Truth: Our quotas are cruelly narrow, allowing only a fraction of those in who want to contribute legally. Then we lose patience with those who seek refuge from poverty and corruption and give up on the document process. Widen the quotas now.

False: More guest workers drive down wages.
True: More legal guest workers would replace the illegal ones, bringing wages and conditions back up for everyone. New workers and their families are also consumers, creating more jobs than they take.

False: Mexicans are bad. (Although few admit to this prejudice.)
True: Mexicans are good.

False: We can't widen visa quotas until we secure the border.
True: A decade of doubling the personnel and barriers made little difference. Only a recession jobs slowed down the flow. Our growing recovery will new new workers.

False: We can reduce border crime by increasing enforcement there.
True: We can reduce border crime faster by streamlining legal entry, forcing fewer applicants to become desperate victims of the smugglers.

One last claim: Even the undocumented residents pay taxes and commit less crime than us natives.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Tabling the law and just putting our heads back kn the sand so we can continue to ignore the elephant in the room is NOT a solution. It's just ignoring the problem.

Just shooting down every attempt at a solution doesn't solve the problem, it just kicks the can further down the road so we don't have to deal with it now... in hopes that it will just magically go away... our at least WE won't have to deal with it... and our CHILDREN'S generation will deal with it.

Just like the government's attempts to deal with the problem of the high_cost of healthcare.

I don't think the bill Obama pushed through will solve the problem... but at least it was something. It's a start. Something we can try and if it doesn't work... refactor it and do something else until we find something that does work. But just ignoring the problem doesn't solve it.

The same goes for Illegal_Immigrations and the obvious flaws in our immigration_law (or the lack of enforcement of our immigration_law).

This bill is something... a start... something we can refine_later IF it_doesn't_work.

Bryan
Syracuse, UT

The "culture of fear" you are afraid of will only exist in the illegal alien community. Anyone else, whether citizen or legal alien, will have no need to fear. Read the law. It says that a person' simple declaration that they are here legally, unless a police officer has proof otherwise, is enough to show that they ARE here legally.

If this law creates a "culture of fear" for illegal aliens, then this is a bill that we need. Illegals have for far too long abused and ignored our laws. No more. This bill is a beginning that will show that illegal aliens will be held accountable for their actions.

Timj
South Jordan, UT

I think Sandstrom is giving lip service to the Utah Compact while stabbing it in the back because of the LDS church's support of the principles in the Utah Compact. Sorry, Sandstrom, you can't have it both ways. You can't have your Arizona-style bill and support the principles in the compact. You can't support Republican immigration "reform" and support the same immigration principles the LDS church supports. No man can serve two masters. Your actions clearly show which one you support.

Emophiliac
Vernal, UT

Controlled immigration is good, uncontrolled immigration is bad. We already allow 1 million immigrants to legally enter the US each year. We've got something close to 10% unemployment for legal US residents. So, why exactly do we want more? The only way I can support any additional immigration of any kind is if business pays wages beyond the average amount and puts funds towards helping unemployed US citizens. Otherwise, business is just undercutting the livelihood of the average US citizen.

Indiana
Sandy, UT

I applaud the bill and thank Rep Sandstrom for his courage...

CJ
Murray, UT

A "culture of fear" and the "disrupting of families" occurs every time someone breaks the law, gets caught, and has to pay the price for it, ask the people at point of the mountain and their families.
Why aren't you against the "enforcement only" approach for them but you are for illegal alien criminals? I supposed next you will be pushing "comprehensive forgiveness" for all criminals as it creates "fear" and "disrupts" families. Illegal immigration is destroying this nation and has already put millions out of work, bankrupted state and national budgets, and doubled the size of the
drug trade.
We are being invaded by a foreign country and you two are standing out there with a welcome wagon. Wake up.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

It's certainly unintentional, but a byproduct of this bill will be the culture of fear mentioned above, and a correlation of immigration status with race, perhaps not in the minds of the majority of Utahns, but almost certainly in the minds of Hispanics.

What will be thought when a Spanish-accented voice fills the air? My guess is we'll hear fewer such voices in everyday conversation. The looks and suspicions won't be worth the conversation, on the part of the speaker.

This will certainly reverberate through the Spanish speaking world, and the LDS Church will be impacted in areas where it has seen high growth. Aspects of the Book of Mormon that deal with skin color will be scrutinized and highlighted.

Again, it's unintentional, but undesirable effects are coming, so don't be surprised when they occur.

tenx
Santa Clara, UT

I also applaud the bill and want to thank Sandstrom for his efforts. It's time to pass a bill to stop the invasion of Illegals into the US. Viva LEGAL immigration.

Emophiliac
Vernal, UT

Re: 10CC

According to the 2010 Census and the Pew statistics, 1 in 3 Hispanics in Utah are illegal. So, of course they are going to see it as an attack on them, because it IS them. Only 15% or so of illegals are white, black, or asian (not that they should be ignored). Like it or not, the face of an illegal is hispanic.

Hellooo
Salt Lake City, UT

Sandstrom's bill is a reasonable part of comprehensive approach combined with other bills in the legislature this year. Utah is fortunate to have lawmaker's that are listening to people's concerns and bringing forward improved bills that are cost effective and part of the need solution. @Emophilliac to be fair the face of the legal immigrant is, also, hispanic.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Prediction, when it's all said and done, 1 year after the enactment of this bill and the legislature is analyzing why undocumented residents are increasing and the budget is not balancing because the tap has closed from Washington, they will see that the bill is a money pit. And please, no more "special fees" for law enforcement because you dry up $ for human services.

Uncle Charles
Where freedom and liberty reign, utah

@10CC: wow, the sky is falling! the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

Now aspects of the Book of Mormon that deal with skin color will be an unintended consequence? Do you think all those red herrings haven't been covered since 1830? Or are you trying to say there will be new ground broken here for attacks on the LDS church?

Your hyperbole is hysterical!

@John: Your whole post is based on false premises.

Bad immigration laws? work to have them changed!

We have 10% unemployment in the country. We don't need any illegal or legal immigrants in right now.

Wages aren't artificially low because of illegal aliens? You actually deny this fact?

Who said anything about Mexicans? The discussion is about illegal aliens.

How many illegal aliens have actually applied to come here legally? Yea, not many.

What is an undocumented resident?

Nice platitudes in your attempt to plead for open borders.

Aren't Liberals always screaming about saving our country's resources? So why the hypocrisy about welcoming anyone and everyone? Do we have the necessary resources in the US or not?

Illegal aliens should be deported immediately.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

@Uncle Charles:

Several observers here have pointed out that Hispanics are largely the face of illegal immigration. It's not hyperbolic to believe many will see this law as anti-Hispanic. The Anti-LDS views on race won't be new or groundbreaking, but they will gain traction, in Hispanic nations.

Do you think this is unlikely? How?

CWEB
Orem, UT

What all these Utah "so-called" laws do--is take up time and money of our government, and ignore the Federal Government's complete failure--again, to do anything to fix immigration.

The Fed Gov. has created this problem. They have placed a piece of chocolate cake on the table in front of starving people. Here is the fork, and a napkin, we are leaving the room, but don't eat any!

And what do most of you Utahn's do? Blame the starving person for eating the cake. Who else? You blame the people who made the cake--(businesses). In reality, you are like those who passed by the wounded man in the story of the Samaritan. NO, of course you don't see that in yourself...

Nor do you follow the command of the Lord to love your neighbor as yourself.
You don't do anything to force our government to stop the lunacy!

Destroying the person who ate the enticing cake is not the answer. Where were all of you 6 years ago? Nobody was crying about immigrants...you've all just jumped on the bandwagon--typical of people who are self-absorbed.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Whether the bill is compatible with the Compact is irrelevant.

Is the Compact state law? - NO

Is the Compact part of the state constitution? - NO
So whoop-dy-frickin-do about whether or not the bill complies with the compact!!

John C.C.
Why do you confuse legal with illegal immigrants? I am not opposed to immigrants, nor are most who support enforcing our laws. Legal immigrants are welcome and wanted. Illegal immigrants are not.

Uncle Charles
Where freedom and liberty reign, utah

@10cc: Your sky is falling about the Book of Mormon is irrelevant to the discussion. This is a nationwide decision to stop illegal aliens.

Do you think Utah is the only state to be enacting these laws?

Do you think when AZ adopted their law that everyone ran back to their countries and complained about the Book of Mormon?

You are short-sighted and uninformed as to what is going on in this country. You keep track of the traction of your concern in your Hispanic countries. Report back in a year and let us all know how the missionary work has dropped off and why.

btw, illegal isn't a race.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Timj

The central purpose of the Utah Compact is to convince Utahans that there is, in fact, no such thing as illegal immigration. Notice how it very cunningly refuses to use the word illegal. It is supported by men who want illegal aliens here so that they don't have to pay their fellow Americans a fair wage.

And you do misunderstand the LDS Church's response to the Compact. If you examine both documents carefully, you will see that the LDS Church only supports LEGAL immigration, and that it CONDEMNS ILLEGAL immigration. Quoting from the LDS Church's statement: "We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nations laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them." It is no surprise that the LDS Church did not sign the Compact.

The Sandstrom bill does not go against the Utah Compact at all. After all, the Utah Compact does NOT refer specifically nor particularly to illegal immigration as distinct from LEGAL immigration, at all!

And I defy you to demonstrate that it does, Deseret News, and to justify censoring this comment!!!

VIDAR
Murray, UT

Emophiliac | 10:27 a.m. Feb. 19, 2011

So according to your numbers 2/3 of those who will be targeted by this "crack down" will be United States citizens.
This whole debate just stinks: a single race is being blamed for everything bad in this state and country.
I remember in history when single groups were targeted: jews, japansese, blacks.
The mexicans did make people buy bigger houses then they could afford.
They did not force people to borrow more money then they could pay back
They did not force the US car manufacturs to make cars that no one wants to buy.
They did not make the price of gasolone go through the roof.
They are not the terrorist that lead to a costly war.

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