I thought the latest frontier was being a missionary...even though he isn't?Wow, the guys busy.
Interesting article. I'm not so interested in how it pertains to Jimmer
particularly, as I'm not a BYU fan and I've only watched a couple of their
games, but the discussion points on college refereeing in general was
There's a well researched study from 2009 that confirmed the home team theory,
but to me, that was the least interesting conclusion. Search for"Fewer fouls called on home team" and you'll find it.
"Do officiating crews decide before a game how it will be called? Do
officials react to a player's stardom? If a player becomes whiny, do officials
tell themselves it's going to be hard for the guy to get a call or two until he
knocks it off?The answer is yes, to all, according to a veteran
college official I (Dick Harmon) spoke with on Monday while researching to
understand the dynamics of officiating and their approach to games and star
players."Having attended and watched all the games that BYU has
played, we would agree that the officiating changes with Jimmer in the game. He
has been mugged, slapped, knocked down flat, and no call has been made. Talk
about unfair....when you see moments later that our players tap another player
and draw the foul. It is very obvious that the referees are not
being totally fair to the physical pushing and shoving to Jimmer. He is an
outstanding player and has had to surmount not only the full court rotation
press, but also the injustice of poor refereeing. We just ask that
referees be fair in their calls. Anyone would get frustrated!Go
ESPN's take on the MWC officiating:"there can be no argument
that Fredette is getting the stuffing knocked out of him on a nightly basis, and
this past week in particular, the whistle was swallowed more often than not. It appears that Fredette's brilliance and as a scorer and ease in
finding different ways to score is leading officials to make him have to work
even harder than lesser players to earn the whistle."------------------MWC officials need to stop officiating the
physical play against Fredette like it's a rugby match, or a great season for
the MWC could turn into a national disgrace.As much as Craig
Thompson hates BYU, he needs to be smart enough to realize that the eyes of the
nation are watching and this could turn really ugly for the MWC in a hurry if
it's not promptly and forcefully addressed.If Fredette goes down
with a serious injury because the MWC fails to address this volatile situation
properly, the conference can kiss goodbye all of the good will they've built up
over the years.
I understand the idea that games are getting tougher the second time around.
But some of the fouls on Jimmer have been borderline flagrant. And there have
been some of the so-called "air borne" fouls on Jimmer that haven't
been called at all.If the officials don't put an end to it soon, it
wouldn't surprise me to see Jimmer get hurt. And that's something that no real
fan wants to see.
The reason the NBA protects it's stars is because they're the bread and butter
of the league.The MWC needs to be smart enough to protect its stars,
especially if they're not getting the same calls an average player would get.Just because Jimmer is nearly impossible to guard one-on-one, doesn't
mean that MWC officials should be swallowing their whistles on physical play
just to give opponents a chance.It's better to turn the game into a
free-throw shooting contest than to risk a player being seriously injured just
because he's better than any other player on the court.
Enough is enough.The physical play on Jimmer is starting to get down
right dirty and bordering on flagrant.I know that Craig Thompson is
going out of his way to make life difficult for teams leaving his precious
conference (see TCU/BSU game site switcheroo), and especially BYU, but it's time
he pulled his head out and realized that this could turn into a public relations
nightmare for him and the MWC if officials don't start calling the very obvious
fouls on Jimmer.Craig Thompson and the MWC are responsible for the
officiating and have an obligation to ensure the fairness of the officiating,
but more importantly, the SAFETY of the student athletes.A directive
to all MWC officials should be sent immediately to address physical play, not
only against Jimmer, but throughout the league.
All the officials have to do is try tocall the game according to the rules.If
you watch games around the country there is a big difference in officiating.
They all (supposedly) are using the same rule book.I know it is a difficult job
but when they decide they are going to change how they make calls becaues of one
player or it's a big game, or tournament time, then they get into trouble.If
they are consistent in how they call a game good players will adjust. But when
they change because of a player or circumstance that's when players,coaches and
fans get upset.
If ESPN sees it, it's pretty obvious.
My only thought on this subject is that, in general, Referee's do not like to
call fouls on the opposing team when the player with the ball looks like he is
'out of control'. That is a problem with The Jimmer. His drives are
so athletic and so dance like and sometimes even so unbelievable, that the Ref's
sometimes treat it as 'out of control' when it isn't. And that is
the other side of the problem...Sometimes The Jimmer appears out of control
because he was knocked around by the first defender, further knocked around by
the second defender and then off balance and out of sorts by the time the 3rd
defender bumps him underneath the basket. Thus, the infamous 'no call'.He is hard to ref, no doubt, but as a fan, all I ever want from an official is
to call it both ways. Stop with calling the stupid ticky tack fouls on Jackson,
when Jimmer is getting hammered and there is no call.
That MWC promotional video with players helping helping each other out looks
kind of lame when the MWC allows players to be mugged like Jimmer is being
mugged lately.Physical play is one thing, but this is way over the
Let's just remember the MWC coalition to hinder BYUs progress, soon it'll all be
over and then the MWC won't have anyone to hate.
PlanetBYU has an interesting take on the whole Jimmer mugging controversy.The MWC really needs to address this before a once-in-a-generation type
player suffers a serious injury because the officials are afraid to call a foul.
Jimmer always has always complained about no calls. It's happened every single
game since the beginning of the season. He looks at the coaches, then the
referees, or the other way around every time he doesn't get a call. I think
almost every player who drives to the basket gets fouled almost every play.
They aren't gonna call every single one, no matter who you are. I'm sure if you
ask post guys they think they should get more calls too! They get hacked non
The fact that Jimmer knows how to draw contact shouldn't be a liability. That is
part of his basketball IQ and skill.What I hate is when, say,
Brandon Davies, is called for some ticky-tacky foul, then Fredette is bumped or
mugged at the other end and no call is made.Is officiating a tough
job? Yes, but trying to play Basketball when the officials are inconsistent
during the game is far more difficult.Finally, I don't go to games
to watch the officials, I go to watch the players compete on a fair and equal
playing field. When I think that field is skewed, either by the superiority of
one team over another, of because the officials haven't a clue, then it no
longer becomes entertaining, and becomes an exercise in mediocrity; mainly
because the players or officials do not meet the level of competition.
To the dudes that want to put it on Craig Thompson:I am no fan of
Thompson but do you seriously believe that he is telling referees to call games
in a way that punishes teams that are leaving the conference?
I asked for someone to do some real research on this issue and tell us the truth
about these non-calls and the double standard.This was a nice first
try.I want to know if the officials have decided ahead of the game
to ignore fouls committed against jimmer that they would call against other
players. Simply put - is there a double standard against Jimmer?This article does not clearly answer that question. It dances around it. Please show a current MWC referee the tapes of the games with the
non-calls and stare him the eyes and ask him if they were not fouls and if the
tape does not prove that their is a double standard against Jimmer.Next question after they admit the double standard is - why does it exist?
Please do a follow up on this topic very soon. The issue will still be there
after the next game. Maybe you have time to line up an a official and watch the
game on tape together. Also look at the game against UTAH and Air Force. Home
"Jimmer always has always complained about no calls."Nothing could be further from the truth, but you're welcome to your clueless
Ernesto de Bajo If you know anything about the spiteful, vindicative
nature of Craig Thompson, you would know that he's not above telling officials
"not to get too picky about calling fouls because we don't want to turn
games into free throw shooting contests," when his real goal is to make it
more difficult for Jimmer to get fair treatment.
As a former referee, I view an official's job as having three priorities: No. 1
is to control the game. Things should not get out of hand. No. 2 is to be
consistent, to treat both teams equally. No. 3 is to make the right call.
Because officials are human, they make mistakes. All officials make mistakes
with No. 3. Officials with bad attitudes often make mistakes with No. 1 and No.
2. Underdogs get a lot of calls their way. Home teams get a lot of calls,
especially in noisy arenas. In the NBA stars get a lot of calls but not as many
as before the Donahy incident. In college some refs are like bad appraisers who
think it's their job to keep home prices down, and they don't like star players
and will allow them to be roughed up a bit. Usually players who show respect to
referees will get a few calls. There's a fine line between complaining too much
and not complaining enough. A player who doesn't draw too much attention to
himself can discuss calls calmly with most officials and get them to see his
point of view.
The thing that I'm so ready for is to have Jimmer play with refs from other
conferences during the NCAA tournament--this rugby-like treatment of Fredette
wasn't happening in out-of-conference play. Why? Because teams knew he'd get
around 15 free throws per game!Jimmer won't have to do much
complaining during the NCAA Tournament--those outside the mountain time zone
give Jimmer the same treatment as any other player. When that
happens, look for AT LEAST 2 tourney wins from "the team down south"
while the "amazing, vastly superior Utes" move from the cellar of the
MWC to the cellar of the PAC-12!
@lordandrew1.....you just had to throw in the Ute comment didn't you. This has
nothing to do about them, even Hedgie made a simple comment, making light of the
article. Teams are now focusing on Jimmer, they don't want to be embarrased by
him, they are going to do what they can get away with to shut him down. This
last game was no exception. I agree there were some instances where there was no
foul so it was not called yet, there were other times he was hammered by two or
three players and no calls made. When it's a foul, call it, that's all that is
Been extremely frustrating to watch Jimmer get hammered and then watch Brandon
Davies have to sit out the last 10+ min of the first half because of some of the
calls that go against him. Worry is about an injury to a great college
player...and he's been getting banged up pretty hard the past few weeks. I love
it when the refs let them play (thought the SDSU game was well called),
especially since BYU is so thin in their big men...but let's be real here!
Most of us are held accountable for our actions, but who judges the judges?Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.If
nobody else will do it then the media (KSL TV) needs to put together a montage
of video clips, all from the same game, showing the Jimmer getting assaulted on
the court with no foul being called and others getting a foul call over
something very trivial by comparison.Put it on YouTube.Put the names of the officials in the video.Hold them accountable
in the court of public opinion.Coaches can get an official fired but
it takes several coaches in the conference working together. Not likely to get
that in the MWC this year.I remember talking with Lloyd Eldredge
after BYU played George back in the Steve Young era. They played in a driving
rain. Every time Georgia asked for a new ball they got a new dry ball. When
BYU asked for a new ball, if they got one at all it was worse than the one they
were replacing.These guys need to be held accountable.
Jimmer's getting a lot of attention because throughout the season the other BYU
players have ridden his wave. It's now time for the other players to step up
and be consistent - force defenders to guard you. This will remove the double
ad triple teaming of Jimmer. If Abouo and emery can consistently score and
Davies pitches in on the inside, then there won't be so much pressure on Jimmer.
If BYU can figure this out, they'll make a deep run in the tournament. If it
is still the Jimmer show at the end of the season, look for another second round
Sometimes stars get mugged... see Youtube for a clip of Kobe Bryant getting
hacked 7 times on one play without a foul call, pretty funny... I wish the
Jimmer would let the coaches and fans fight that battle for him. He looks
spoiled when he tries to stare down the refs.
When is a foul not a foul? When it's Jimmer driving the lane.
lordandrew1, your last sentence was uncalled for. No wonder Ute fans criticize
BYU fans. We are sometimes arrogant, as they often indicate in their blogs, and
your blog reeked of arrogance! If we, as fans, want fair treatment by Ute
bloggers, we need to be fair in our blogs. Please, all BYU fans, let's be nice
with our comments. Let's not be like a bunch of chickens who peck away at one
or two they feel are inferior. Let's not put another team down just to make
ourselves feel superior. Think about what the result will be before posting.
Google/youtube the Jordan rules and Detroit Pistons Bad Boys. That was physical
It's interesting when officials call hand checks when no clear advantage is
gained by the defender, but then choose to ignore a player getting mugged and
tripped, when clearly an advantage is gained by the defender.
re lordandrew1: Your NAME says alot. Utah fans don't need to be told they have a
crappy team this year, I think they already know that. And yes, BYU is good this
year, mostly because of Jimmer. The thing you need to do is look outside your
bubble and be realistic about BYU's chances in the NCAA tournament! They will be
playing teams that are BIGGER, FASTER and way more PHYSICAL than any of the
teams you have faced this year. They will study film and know who Jimmer is and
they will know what to do about him. You might get lucky and have a higher seed
to give you a chance of winning more games, but you might not win those. After
all, it is called march madness for a reason.Good luck in the tourney and
try to remember...WHAT COMES AROUND, GOES AROUND!
Skippy"They will be playing teams that are BIGGER, FASTER and
way more PHYSICAL than any of the teams you have faced this year."More physical than Air Force or Utah were the last two games?Bigger and faster than SDSU or Arizona?You don't get higher seeds
because of luck, Skippy, you earn them, especially when you don't play in one of
the "power" conferences.NONE of those NCAA tourney teams
will be anymore prepared than the MWC teams BYU is playing the second time
through the conference and in the MWC tourney.Your analysis is
extremely flawed. Try taking off those crimson-colored glasses
first; then try it again.
What's funny is to see the players mug Jimmer, then look at the refs and when
they realize they weren't called for a foul kind of shrug and get back to it.
Officials. Get real.
How about simply "a foul is a foul"?How about following
the rule book?It's like each set of refs has a rule book of his own.
Did the ref who spoke spoke off the record also admit that maybe
there's a little of his ego involved in foul-calling?I remember an
NBA ref who was consistent. He called it by the book on both ends and didn't
care what anyone thought about it - players, coaches, home-town fans. The result
was a consistent game and less focus on the referrees.But Jimmer
been knocked around so much and hacked and slammed with no calls that you wonder
if the referees are discussing him and if it's an objective to not respect his
You might ask Ty Wesley and USU who got the bad calls when they played BYU. It
looks to me that Jim is beginning to "press" a little to get his
points and at time is a little out of control.
Officials know that Fredette is going to be covered tightly and manhandled.
They need to be diligent in making sure the defense is honest and not overly
physical. If the MWC Conference loses him because of lack officiating and
worse, it will hurt more than just the teams burn by a once in a generation
player. Think about it.
I do think the MWC needs to step in and say enough is enough. BYU is giving them
a glowing national spotlight for a conference, a nice going away present, they
ought to return the favor.
My my my, sounds like a bunch ally cats wailing on a hot tin roof.If
byu had other options than jimer this would not be an issue. Teams know that if
you stop jimer dredent you stop the tds.One demensional gimmick
team. NUFF SAID
The refs asked Coach Rose to take Jimmer out of the game? Why would they do
that? Answer: Take the pressure off themselves for bad officiating and everyone
in the Marriott Center knew it including Utah's coach as per his comments. Refs,
just do your job and officiate fairly! Brandon or Noah can't even breathe on a
offensive player without getting called for a foul, but anyone defending Jimmer
has a different rule book- or none at all!
hedgehog...HAHAHAHAHA... really? Stop Fredette and you beat BYU?
You are funny! First, very difficult assignment to stop Fredette, seems no one
has really been successful at this. Second of all how well did Abouo, Emery,
Davies, Hartsock and Rogers play against your beloved Utes? BYU is the real
deal and is a legit team. Enjoy disparaging BYU as that is all you seem to be
able to do. BYU is a great team, and Jimmer is AMAZING! Go Cougs!
What's up?Bad calls on Tai? You mean that technical he got for
swinging his elbows which is a clear violation of the rules?Sorry
bud, it was an unfortunate call for the Aggies, especially the timing of the
call, but it wasn't a bad call.
A mugging is a mugging. Should be called and stop all the justification by refs.
Typically intentional fouls call for ejection. Now the player being fouled is
asked to leave....? Wow...what a mind-set. What's next? Can't play bb without
From the way people are describing it, it sounded like Jimmer was ready to bust
a cap, so to speak. Bad behavior, no matter how unfair the refs may be, will
get you thrown out of the game.
I have officiated at a number of levels and more basketball than I even care to
remember. I will be the first to maintain that officials seldom have anything to
do with the outcome of a game. For every non call made in the final second, I
will show you five missed freethrows ten minutes earlier. Fans always want to
blame someone for their teams loss, just not their team.That said, I
think there is a pathetic precedent set in the NBA and it filters down to every
level, that of calling a game based on who is playing or the reputation
preceding a game. If an official sees a foul as conditioned by his training,
then call it. Don't look first to see who fouled or who was fouled. A carry is a
carry whether it's Koby or Joe. Call it. If the physicality of a game escalates
to the point where management becomes difficult, advise both teams and be true
to your warning, including technicals and ejections. Predetermining how you're
going to trat favored individuals is always a bad idea, since everyone is
somebody's favorite. Just call it by the book.
After the Utes' previous showing on their home court, Coach Rose said, "The
best way to guard Jimmer is to foul him. In practice we don't call
fouls."And there was the answer, Boylen thought, for the next
game. He surely took that statement to heart. Fouling
Jimmer became 75% of Boylen's game plan.But that didn't work either
as even with all the no-calls, Jimmer made 16 free throws, which was enough in
it's self to win the game.Does Boylen know the meaning of
backfire?Had Davies and Hartsock had their normal game, the margin
would have been double or more than what it was.
All of you criticizing the refs, have you ever been a ref? Just by walking out
on the court the Refs are automatically the bad guys. This is the case at
whatever level. Many of the calls they have to make are purely judgemental and
there's absolutely no way they can see it all! So next time you want to
criticize a ref, try being one yourself for a few games and you'll never
criticize them again!
The silver lining is that as long as Jimmer doesn't get hurt, he and the cougars
will be better prepared for the conference and NCAA tournaments. Go
Cougs. Keep on winning.
It is a disgrace that officials feel they need to penalize a good player -it is
not their job to try and help the underdog or make a good player work harder.
They need to call the same fouls for all players. A player that handles the ball
and drives and shoots a lot should be going to the foul line more. And there
should be no quota. If they foul him he should shoot, whether it is his fifth
trip to the line or fifteenth. This is now starting to get national notice. The
MWC needs to tell the officials to call the game right. Otherwise it only
validates the national perception that many have that the MWC is not ready for
the big time.
If any player is mugged and there is not a call, the ref's deserve all the
criticism. Just because it is a hard job doesn't mean they don't
have to get the easy ones right. A guy getting mugged by two, three or four
players is an easy call.
There is one positive to the physical play that Jimmer has to endure. If he
survives, he will be prepared for the NCAA tourney. Remember how physical KSU
was on Jimmer last year?
You have to admire the way Jimmer has handled the non-calls up to the last game
against UTAH. I have been frustrated by the non-calls for some time and feel he
did a good job of moving past them. The last two games have got to
be too much though and I think the line has been crossed too far by the defense
and the officials.I do not know of many people who could take what
he has received and not show their disapproval in this treatment.
Waaaaa! Waaaaaa! Why does everybody pick on us? We are BYU and we are better
than everyone else. We would never lose a game in any sport if it weren't for
people cheating to make us lose.
It is really within BYU's control. If the opposing team is going to mug their
star, then someone has to step on the mugger and that is not going to be a
referee. Two or three hard picks on the opposing team's star and you will see a
more straight up defense. Until BYU makes such plays they are not good enough
to win the MWC and have little chance for a deep run in the NCAA Tournament.
Soft or tough (not talking about Jimmer he is a nail), but the rest of the team
needs to stand up, clean and very hard.
Why should officials be able to restrict Jimmer from utilizing his unusual
talents? Jimmer gets plenty of assists because of excellent defensive play, but
fans love to see him make space and get off a three pointer or make an
incredible move and get off a driving shot. If defenders are allowed to foul
him, he's bound to get frustrated. Is Jimmer just supposed to put up with this
kind of unfair treatment? True fans of good basketball enjoy seeing talented
players display their talents.
To PerfectCougar. I think your name indicates your arrogance. You say that the
refs should get it right when the guy is getting mugged ... hence, refereeing is
a subjective job. Give it a try. Your mugging isn't someone elses mugging!
BTW,Since when is it the official's purvue to tell a coach when to bench
his player. As in life, on the court, unless a player has committed an
infraction, the ref has no standing in player removal. If he goes off, eject
him. Otherwise, if you fear for a players safety, eject the one mugging him."Coach, your player is getting beaten up physically. I don't have
the fortitude to eject the one beating him up, so will you take him
out?"It is rediculous that officials need to play touchy /
feely in calling a game. Call it, and let the chips fall. When you do, both
sides get the message and play accordingly. When there is a sliding scale, both
sides continually push for favoritism.
cvguy | 9:44 a.m. Feb. 15, 2011 Lehi, Utah "Waaaaa!
Waaaaaa!"===Classy.Players cannot guard Fredette
without fouling him. He'd light every team up for 60 points if they had to play
straight up "D".It does not benefit the MWC for BYU to
blow out all their teams just to leave the conference next year.Let's see if Harmon's column get Fredette a few more calls as he finishes out
his senior season, and moves into the NCAA tourney.I think it will
be good for ratings to keep Fredette playing in March, so we may see a few more
A foul is a foul. Three guys fouling at the same time is a mugging. Pick your
player, as all three committed fouls. Miss a slap on the arm, ok,
miss three guys hacking at the same time, its a mugging and negligence on the
part of the referee.I don't like it when the ref's miss a call when
the BYU players foul either.
@BYUalum 5:50 p.m.:"Do officials react to a player's
stardom?"Yes. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant rarely get called
for charging fouls.
I've watched closely to see how the Jimmer is handling all the hype and
expectations being placed upon him.Although its been a barrell of
fun, it's also came at a price. The kid has been thrust into the limelight and
treated like a rockstar, thus, the new added stress and pressure are eventually
going to follow.Jimmer is becomming more and more like Danny Ainge.
Yes, I said that and am a true blue Cougar. There's nothing I enjoyed more than
watching Ainge slay the opposition, however, with that said, I despised his
whining even more. Just like with Jimmer, I can hardly wait for the next game
to begin, but if he's going to start copping an attitude, he's going to lose
favor with fans, coaches, and sportswritters everywhere and that wont bode well
when Cousy and Wooden awards are voted upon.Focus up Jimmer and play
through the tough no calls. Nobody likes a whiner. The NBA is likely around
the corner for you, where whining is both accepted and permissible.I
don't want to look down the road and see a reflection of Ainge when I think
about the Jimmer!
Write letters to the conf.- fill their inbox- they do not read you here
Very timely article. Thanks for expounding on this phenomena Dick.Remember a few muggings of BYU stars of the past to include Kresmir Cosic by
both Utah and Arizona State Will never forget Phil Tollstrup charging off the
BYU bench to defend Cosic against an ASU football player suited up especially to
mug Kresh.Danny Ainge was roughed up a few times as well, but
usually took care of it himself.And who will ever forget the former
WAC ref turned commentator with an avowed hatred of BYU.
V I C T I M
@in arizonayou need to call down a little bit there...refs are human
and make mistakes... and we as humans like to point out others mistakes. Yes,
I've tried reffing, in two sports (not high levels though) and it's not easy,
but you have to get off your ego trip. I have friends that ref and I know their
egos get into the game. Quit worshiping the striped shirt that you once wore.
Stop whining hedgehog.We already know that the Utes have been
victimized by Jimmer (TWICE), or as most of the nation now calls it, J I M M E R E D !
I have to say that the comments on this board are extremely entertaining. I
haven't seen this type of idol worship since Obama took the white house. THE Jimmer, is simply a college kid who plays great basketball. Nothing
more, nothing less. Teams will attempt to stop Jimmer. Like it or
not, good players draw the defense; it happens all the time in sports.
I don't know about all this psychological junk of what is going on, all I know
is thatJimmer is getting mugged about 60% of the time. Why are things
being called different then they were earlier in the year. Call a foul when a
guy gets fouled, is that such a hard concept? I officiate high school football,
and when I see a penalty that affects the play I call it. It should be the same,
when Jimmer gets knocked to the floor. It is a foul!!!!!
Referee's have a tough assignment to balance allowing the play to flow and
"over-calling" a game. The issue with Jimmer is that teams aren't
trying to steal the ball, or impede his progress to the basket, they just want
to press full court and tire him out to impact his offensive game. If they
could find a way to make him play more defense and tire him out that way, they
would do that to.The problem is that Jimmer has the ball so much
that it would slow the game down if they called every single foul. The rule of
thumb is to make the call if it impacts the outcome of the play. Since defenses
are trying to steal the ball, and they rarely do, the refs aren't going to call
much of the physical play on the way up the floor. I don't know if
Jimmer's ego could handle it, but it would be interesting to see what would
happen if Emery brought the ball up instead?
Its so cheap. Craig thomson will probably have someplayer from the MWC try to
hurt Jimmer.We never get calls which is why I always boo really hard at
the refs and other teams.
Do you guys want a little cheese with your whine? Holy Cow, you are all
complaining about the game against Utah but a quick look at the box score
reveals Utah went to the line 8 times total Jimmer went to the line 8 times, and
his team went 24. Perhaps the refs were no calling either way? Total fouls
against Utah 20 total fouls against BYU 14. If Jimmer is to fragile to play mens
Basketball perhaps he should try the womens league otherwise shut up and play.
How do you suppose he will be treated in the NBA? Jimmer is getting double and
triple teamed, as should be expected since he has dropped 40 several times this
year, but as he avoids the first defender he sometimes initiates the contact
with the second, or the third this should not be a offensive call necessarily
but it should not be defensive call either. Therefore the ref gives no call, and
the Y-ners Yine!!
Officiating at all levels beginning with the NBA has filtered down to the lower
levels, i.e. College and high school. What is happening in the case of Fredette
is appalling. Allowing fouls and redefining what a foul is in any game is pure
nonsense. Officiating has always been over the years favorable to the home
teams however it is rationalized by officials, administrators, or the general
public. It's a fact. Whenever there are players of higher profile and talent,
the focus is always hightened. Fredette is being abused by teams and the
officiating needs to address it. He is being bumped and pushed out of his
driving lanes, and hacked almost 1005 of the time with a lot of contact being
ignored. All this does will ignite the player concerned, his fellow players,
the coaches and the fans. This could lead to further violent play and otherwise
fan unrest in general. There are cases when these things get and of control,
ending up with players fighting and the violence spilling over to the fans,
causing riots and fans coming to the floor.I say clean up you act
officials and call the game. This is not roboball.
Is it the officials job to decide whether Jimmer's style is acceptable? Why
should an official tell a coach he ought to take a player out of the game? Why
don't they call fouls trying to avoid the ticky tack ones? If Jimmer gets an
obvious foul call it, it's part of the game. Should officials try to make Jimmer
just bring the ball down and pass it off, so they won't have a tough call to
make? I thought that was their job!
Only BYU fans complain about referees calls after winning the game. Good gads,
it's just a game, get over it.
dknight68If all you've done is look at the boxscore, then you're
unqualified to discuss whether the physical play on Jimmer has gone beyond what
El Ingreso BYU fans are rightly concerned about their star player
being seriously injured because the MWC officials have decided to swallow their
whistles and not calls obvious fouls.Only BYU haters wouldn't be
concerned about the muggings taking place on the court.
Scott- Try taking off your blue tinted glasses and quit looking at basketball as
a red and blue game and start seeing it as basketball.
Thanks for the comedy most of you. Nearly all of you base your
"opinions" on whether or not your a BYU / Jimmer fan. Jimmer does get
fouled a lot. He also gets to the line alot. It is obvious to anyone with a any
Basketball IQ that teams are playing Jimmer tighter and more physically. Trying
to intimidate him won't work because he simply won't be. It would be great to
see consistency from the officials across all games with all teams but it does
not happen. Referees frequently influence the outcome of games by how they call
them. The law of averages usually treats teams equally overall. Jimmer should
just continue to play and leave the politics to his coach. He should get most of
the calls he deserves.
I'm sure Brandon Davies would love to be officiated with the same lack of
scrutiny as the guys guarding Jimmer get. Seems like Brandon gets
whistled for a foul just walking onto the court, breathing wrong or looking at
someone cross-eyed. Considering how hard Jimmer has to get hit before a foul is
called, Brandon sure gets some pretty easy ticky-tack fouls called on him.There is a HUGE disparity there.
As long as we win and Jimmer stays healthy the Y will do very well the rest of
this year. Jimmer is fun to watch and gets to the foul line enough in most
games. I observe many potential fouls not called on both teams. Just be grateful
that we are having an amazing run. Next up is TCU on the road. Good luck guys in
By the way, what is a "perfect cougar"?
pac manNo, I watched the game as well and honestly thought Utah was
getting the shaft. I am a Utah Man after all. For instance, when O'brien goes
down the lane and gets it across both arms, the ball is stolen away and Jimmer
gets a call on the other end when Clyburn waves at him, I decided the MWC was
going to ride Jimmer to the bank. You are all simply jumping on the Dick Harmon
bandwagon, who has never claimed to be an objective sports journalist, When he
says "Oh the injustice of it all!!" A look at the box score simply
shows it was not as you all have been describing. You really need to get off the
persecution complex. Your guys won the game find joy and rejoicing.
dknight68Did you read the article on ESPN? A completely neutral,
objective sports reporter from San Francisco who reports primarily on
conferences like the MWC, sees it exactly the same way as BYU fans h regarding
the hard, physical play on Jimmer not being whistled against Air Force and
Utah.Please explain how a neutral reporter sees the same thing
happening on the court as Dick Harmon and the vast majority of BYU fans, if
there's not some truth to it.
We deserve to get all the calls! A foul is a foul! Why is that so hard to
understand? Go away utsie trolls?
Yes, some of us have been refs, and that's why it's maddening to see no-calls on
hard fouls. As a former player, I also hate refs who call phantom fouls, or
church refs who call "over the back" even when there is no contact or
"reaching in" when a player makes a clean steal. But a ref who allows
a player to be knocked off course repeatedly, resulting in a missed shot or a
turnover is one who should be forced to quit (or change). I agree with the
comment that Jimmer and BYU will improve with poor officiating in the Mountain
West. I well remember when Devin Durrant's team met Kentucky. The Cougars
couldn't handle getting mugged because in those days in the WAC practically no
physical contact was allowed except for rebound positioning. Devin was thrown
completely off his game, and so were the rest of the Coogs. One reason our
intermountain teams have been doing better against so-called power conferences
(a misnomer since the Mountain West is one of the top four conferences) is that
the referees allow contact nowadays. Still, it's not as bad as in the NBA.
How hard is it to understand the disappointment and frustration of fans in
seeing the teams best player manhandled and the rules not inforced that are
designed to protect him?
A perferct Cougar is a BYU Cougar. Not true for a WSU Cougar or many other
imitations. No one wants to be called a Ute, so no one copies that name.
PerfectCougar,hmmm, it looks like you live in payson
"utah" therfore you're a ute.Utah: The name
"Utah" is derived from the name of the Ute tribe and means
"people of the mountains".Utes were known to eat mountain cougar
as a daily diet.
I am guessing that if your name is "articuno" you are trying not to be
taken seriously...........Im guessing you are a ute fan pulling a Chris B?
Games have rules. Basketball is only basketball when played by the rules of
basketball. It appears that some officials have decided, "Sure, Jimmer can
dominate and win by the usual rules of basketball, but can he win if we change
the rules?"Many years ago we played basketball in the old
Wallsburg Ward House in Wallsburg, Utah. The court was small and the walls
confining, so we invented "Wallsburg Ball." There was no
out-of-bounds and there were no fouls. We had a great time, but finesse, body
control and a shooter's touch were no longer required. Pure muscle and brute
force were the winning combination. Those who didn't wish to sustain an injury
declined to play by our rules.It seems the officials of the MWC have
discovered "Wallsburg Ball." You can't blame the players or their
coaches. You push the envelope to find what game the officials are calling, and
then take every liberty offered. But the fans really wanted to see what Jimmer
could do in the traditional game of basketball, and we are being denied the
chance of a lifetime. Sad! I hope not tragic.
A hedgehog is any of the spiny mammals of the subfamily Erinaceinae and the
order Erinaceomorpha. There are 17 species of hedgehog in five genera, found
through parts of Europe, Asia, Africa, and New Zealand. There are no hedgehogs
native to Australia, and no living species native to North America; those in New
Zealand are introduced. Hedgehogs have changed little over the last 15 million
years. Like many of the first mammals they have adapted to a nocturnal,
insectivorous way of life. The name 'hedgehog' came into use around the year
1450, derived from the Middle English 'heyghoge', from 'heyg', 'hegge' = hedge,
because it frequents hedgerows, and 'hoge', 'hogge' = hog, from its piglike
snout...Let's play the name game...
dknight68You cite one example when a foul on O'brien wasn't called
and a "phantom" foul committed by Clyburn that was called.Obouo was also called for tripping a Utah player when replays clearly show
that Charles didn't even touch the Utah player.That's not what
concerns BYU fans. It happens.What BYU fans are talking about is
over a dozen times in just the Air Force and Utah games when Jimmer drove the
lane and was pushed, grabbed, and tripped, often by multiple players, with
nothing being called.We're not talking mere slaps on the wrist or a
slight push in the back, we're talking about getting hit/tripped hard enough to
knock Jimmer to the floor, sometimes in mid-air, which is extremely dangerous.
I remember when Araujo punched a guy from UNLV and us byu fans thought it was
great and deserved.
I'm a huge BYU fan and to be honest I have been disappointed in the way Jimmer
handles himself on the court lately. No player should ever expect a call. I feel
like he has been looking for contact rather than looking to make a play. When he
drives uncontrollably inside he is going to get some contact. But it seems like
he sees it as a way out. He still makes some amazing plays, but I'd like to see
fewer turnovers and more control from him.
@ scenic viewHow about the "non-backcourt"-travel-double
dribble no call?I understand it wasnt actually a back court
violation within the rules of the game but to miss the blatant double dribble
and traveling violation was mind boggling.Even as bad as those
non-calls were, no one was in danger of getting hurt, unlike the Jimmer no
jazzfanThe reason Jimmer seems "out-of-control" is because
he's being hit hard MULTIPLE times every time he drives. That's the problem, and
it's getting worse because the refs are swallowing their whistles.The turnovers are a direct result of the fouls that aren't being called.Jimmer has been remarkably calm about all of the times he's been fouled
throughout the season, but it's gotten much worse the last two games and Jimmer
has a right to be upset that NOTHING is being called.
Everybody hates my Cougars and we are being cheated by the refs. Once Jimmer
gets to the NBA, he will never be "ruffed up".
"I remember when Araujo punched a guy from UNLV and us byu fans thought it
was great and deserved."How did the Dn's allow this comment to
get threw. I expected better zoobie censorship than this.
Any official who asks a coach to taqke a player out of the game should be
It's amazing how much hatred gets spewed by losers.Let's say it one
more time.Three groups of people determine the outcome of games.Team A, Team B, and team ref. If you don't see that, then you do not
know the game.I respect refs until they turn into opponents. Then
they are just meddlers. If they are not calling fouls that are typically fouls,
trying to even up the game, or engineer an upset then they are a pox on the
game.If they are part of the conversation they are not doing the
job. If their names get in the paper, they should be suspended.
So what do all of you ranters propose? Burning down the MWC headquarters?
Seriously, you're all sounding like a bunch of drama-hungry maniacs.
Craig Thompson needs to step in. Fredette is being triple teamed, obviously
fouled and not getting the calls. End of discussion. The other coaches are mad
that Jimmer scores and they don't want to blame their own players.
I want the league to publicly apologize to SDSU Coach Steve Fisher and Jimmer
for the poor treatment both received this past week.If they can
publicly, and wrongly, reprimand Fisher, they can make it right publicly as
well. While they are at it, they can state publicly that they have
discussed the problem with the officials and will be watching how future games
Here is the quote from ESPN:"After getting fouled on what
turned out to be his final basket of the night with 59 seconds to play, Fredette
let the officials know how he felt about their handling of the game's very
physical affairs. Before Fredette could attempt his free throw to complete the
three-point play, umpire Mike Reed advised BYU coach Dave Rose to remove his
point guard from the game, in light of his vocal unhappiness and increasing
frustration level. With the game no longer in doubt, Fredette left the contest
after scoring his final point. Whether the official should be
engaging in such a dialogue with Rose is something that can be debated, but
there can be no argument that Fredette is getting the stuffing knocked out of
him on a nightly basis, and this past week in particular, the whistle was
swallowed more often than not. It appears that Fredette's brilliance
and as a scorer and ease in finding different ways to score is leading officials
to make him have to work even harder than lesser players to earn the
whistle."Clearly not just a BYU fan's opinion.
I believe that an official telling a coach to take a player out, for complaining
about being fouled, crosses the line. If there was a foul call it, if not,
"T" the complainer if excessive. An official that will force a player
off the floor because the official won't make calls, is really bad. That
individual needs to hang up his striped shirt and move on to chess in the
park.A foul is a foul. If an official won't call a foul for
whatever reason, then he or she needs a new job. Nothing more, nothing less.
An earlier quote:"It's amazing how much hatred gets spewed by
losers.Let's say it one more time.Three groups of people
determine the outcome of games." - I guess this guy has never
sat courtside. The fans also have a big impact. In general they can change
momentum, but those on the front 5 or 6 rows can be heard by the players. The success of BYU at home is not just jimmer, but also that loud fan
base. Anyways, Jimmer isn't a saint and refs make mistakes. I would
love to see Jimmer play against the Jazz in the Malone-Stockton-Hornacek era. He
would be on the ground with a few broken bones. He hasn't experienced what
Harmon thinks is "mugging".
I was mugged on my Mission 5 times. So I am somewhat of an expert. Trust me Jimmer is "Getting "Mugged"
The only ones out of control were this senseless referee and "Smiley"
Cupetts! (Who's smiling now?) A big part of Jimmer's game is getting to the
foul line which he has practiced and prepared for all his life. Go ahead, refs,
and take that part of his game away. You do yourself proud!!!
dknight68: Welcome to Dream World!!!
Offensive players create contact and get way to many calls. It makes basketball
boring. Jimmer usually gets those calls. The refs let it go both
ways. I didn't notice Jimmer crying about it. But, The fans around me whined the
whole game. It got real old.
RD10"Offensive players create contact..."And
they've been getting away with it forever. That's expected.What's not expected is three or four defenders mugging an offensive player
everytime he drives the lane with nothing being called.Just as in
football, where the receiver usually gets the benefit of the doubt when there's
contact with the defender, the offensive player in basketball usually gets the
benefit of the doubt on any contact that creates a disadvantage for the
offensive player, whether that's a wrist slap, push in the back, a hold, or
Suggesting Jimmer to sit because he was taking a beating? Why not call some
fouls to calm things down?
jimmer and the byu team are student athletes, so is the rest of the mwc's
athletic teams. wouldn't it put past the mwc to look the other way. don't lose
your integrity commish.
All of you are pathetic. Blaming the officials. That's all BYU fans have done
for decades. Big babies.