Our immigration laws are not bad, but those breaking them are. All
countries have immigration laws, and the US has some of the most liberal. Over 1
million per year come here legally, more than the anywhere else in the world
since 2006. It's not about bad laws or any other excuses, it's about
forcing people to obey the law. Lack of enforcement breeds bad behavior.
"The Utah Compact demonstrated to the nation that there is an alternative
to Arizona-style, enforcement-only punitive legislation," said Paul Mero,
president of the Sutherland Institute, a conservative Utah-based think
tank." Stop bad-mouthing your Mormon neighbor: we have more crud to put up
with here than you can imagine.
How do we tell some of our needy citizens that their social programs are facing
extinction because the money has been spent on illegals. If families
don't want to be split up, then all of you go back to Mexico or wherever. Come
legally or don't come. I couldn't go to other countries and get away with what
you do here.Utah legislators...listen to the voice of reason. Stop
inviting illegals here. We can't afford them, don't want their gangs, don't
want our schools crowded by their rough kids, don't want their poor drivers.
They need to fix their own country and stop ruining ours.IMMIGRATE
The Church has taken no such stand on Illegal Immigration.....if it were so, we
would have heard it from the pulpit!Until then I suggest those who
seem to think otherwise refrain from such lies as the Church supports the
Compact and doesn't support honoring and sustaining the law.....including SB70!
I have yet to find a single source, other than members of this comment board, of
Elder Oaks signing the compact. The Church has supported it, but there is no
record of Elder Oaks signing the compact...surely a newsworthy occurance IF it
I am LDS & I do NOT support the pact or anything like it but then I live in
a border state with 2 million illegals and the multitude of problems that we
have to deal with because of them being here. Because enforcing tough
immigration laws can break up families I am supposed to give them a pass? I
don't think so. Those who exercised their free agency to break the law put their
families at risk not me or my state. If I have to be law abiding they should
be as well. You can't ask people to be obedient to the law and at the same time
state let some of them stay because their families will be split up just because
they chose to commit breaking and entering by coming to this country illegally.
I notice the states mentioned looking at the pact are not border states;
convenient since they havent got as large a problem as those along the border.
I don't know how Utah treats an undocumented worker in its state. It is a
felony to remain in the US without documentation to lawfully be in this
country. I don't know what to make of the Utah Compact other than it appears to
be a 'feel good' resolution. But if the intent to to encourage Utah residents
to ignore people who are in the state without documentation, its framers should
amend it. The resolution should state that all those residing in Utah should
obey the law or challenge it in court or in the legislature.The City of
San Francisco says it will NOT turn over those in the city illegally to federal
immigration officials. San Francisco is a sanctuary city. My concern is that
Utah will become a sanctuary state if officials sworn to uphold the law are
encouraged to, like San Francisco, look the other way when they knowingly
confront illegal immigrants.
I disagree with the statement in this article that "immigration policy is a
federal matter, not a state issue."Immigration policy is ALSO a
"state issue" because each state uses state taxes to cover the costs
of providing education, health care, and other community resources to illegals.
States are not reimbursed by the federal government for these costs! Which is why states with the highest illegal immigration levels are
b*r*o*k*e!!States have every right to, and must, play a key role in
immigration policy, and step in where the Feds fail to do their job.
My2Cents: you do NOT speak for the citizens of Utah.We need to
quit declaring people "illegal". Not ONE of your kind, My2Cents,
would bother checking the immigration status of a non-white person.
No one is for illegal immigration. What people who support the Utah compact are
saying is that just as our tax laws are broken, our immigration laws are broken
also. Both need to be fixed so that they work better and fairer. One example of
the broken nature of our immigration law is that there are around 3 million U.S.
Citizens who are married to undocumented people. There is no path way for those
people to change their status. The only option is for the undocumented
individual to return to their home country and be barred from reentering the U.S
for ten years. This is an example of the COMPACT talking about necessarily
breaking up families. The law could easily be changed to remove the ten year bar
and allow the spouse to return to their country and work on changing their
status. I know that some will say their is no Mercie for law breakers but many,
if not most of these spouses where brought her as children.
Big Question: Who side would you be on if you had lived during the American
Revolution? Beginning with the Boston Tea Party in 1773, would you have
supported bad law and been a Tory/Loyalist, loyal to the British Crown during
the ensuing War for Freedom in the American Colonies, or would you have broken
bad law as a Sons of Liberty and actively fought as a Patriot to establish law
that reflected Deity's Laws?And so it is with immigration and its
bad law. Whose side are you on?
@ajax: Yeah, because being religiously bigoted is exactly the same as enforcing
an immigration law.
There was a time in Idaho when it was illegal for Mormons to vote, hold
government office or even serve on a jury. Other discriminatory laws against
Mormons remained part of the Idaho constitution until all were rescinded in
1982.Lucky for we Mormons in Idaho at the time there was no stiff
opposition stuck on the absolutism of past legalities: no taunting like
"What is it you don't understand about the law?"
Allowing the Sandstrom crowd to prevail in Utah is the moral equivalent of
siding with the rise of the islamic brotherhood and sharia law in the Middle
East. Such thinking is a threat to all of us who appreciate the freedoms and
opportunities of modern society.
Elder Oaks signed as an individual, not for the LDS church, they instead
released their own policy statement. Like the Catholic church, they asked people
to come legally and to follow the laws. If more workers refueled a
recovery, our 100,000 Utahns out of work would give us a huge growth spurt. So many excuses not to follow the law. The compact is a call for us to
open our borders and destroy our constitution. The illegal immigration-amnesty
chain has been around for 25 years. If we don't get a handle on it, we are going
to lose the country. No society can exist unless the laws are
Regardless of who did or didn't sign the compact one fact is very plain and
simple. You can either say you believe in obeying and sustaining the law or you
don't. You can't say "obey all the laws except those that apply to
immigration". If you say that then you must make an exception for the guy
who believes that tax laws are unconstitutional and refuses to pay taxes.
It makes no sense that a guy who isn't current on his child support is denied a
temple recommend but an illegal immigrant who breaks into the country and steals
an ID from a child, steals a job from an American ,and then loots the state and
national treasuries can get one without even being asked his legal status. You
can try to make that shoe fit in name of "compassion" but it doesn't
work. Where is the compassion for the children of prisoners at point of the
mountain who likewise didn't do anything? This whole issue is a simple matter of
enforcing the law equally.
No need to choose. The gospel suggests that obeying and following the law is
the thing to do. It also suggests that we cannot have mercy, justice without
accountability.We are blessed to live in a country where we have the
ability to change the law. Either we need to change it, or obey it. There is
no other way. Ignoring the violations of law is NOT one of those ways.
procuradorfiscal I agree with your post. Give them a blanket, pillow, snack and
water on their way home. Then give the fast food job to a high school or college
student. Remove all incentives for social security theft, identity
theft and drug smuggling.
I'm LDS and disagree with Oaks and 100% agree with Sandstrom.
Re: "I am just really curious--if it came to push or shove, which would you
choose?"No need to choose. The approaches are not
incompatible. One says respect the law. The other urges respect for the
humanity of lawbreakers.Why would compliance with both require hard
Timj mentions:"If you're LDS, you may be interested in knowing
that Elder Oaks signed the Utah Compact, and the LDS church supports the
Compact."And he also mentions "xenophobic
hysteria".I know many active LDS who let the Revelation on the
blacks and the Priesthood become their "line in the sand"--the issue
which they decided to separate themselves from the LDS Church because they DID
NOT AGREE with it. Same goes for many LDS who think the Church is
off base and out of line for speaking out against Gay marriage. MY
QUESTION: Are there active members of the LDS Church today who are going to let
the legal/illegal divide be their "line in the sand"?Will
they hold to their "xenophobic hysteria",(clamoring for "follow
the law", "deport all illegals", "no exceptions, no excuses,
no more tax money wasted on illegals"), and in so doing, go against their
Church--who supports a more patient, compassionate view such as the Utah
Compact?I am just really curious--if it came to push or shove, which
would you choose? Your strongly held views and opinions, or the
Way to go Utah and those following their lead. Now AZ and NM can give the
illegals a going away party as they will now flood into your state. This will
give our state a chance to recover from the devastation caused to our welfare
system, not to mention the crime we have endured.
I am 100% in favor of Senator Sandstrom's illegal immigration bill. I am also in
favor of the basic concepts of the Utah Compact. The two are totally
different. The Utah Compact is about immigration and treating people with
respect that are trying to do things the right way.Illegal
immigration is a totally different story, I want illegals out of Utah
yesterday!I like the "family" value ploy in the Utah
Compact. Guess what? I totally agree that families should not be separated. If
you are here illegally as a family, then the whole family should be deported.
With over 30 years of law enforcement experinece, it seem reasonable to me that
when you either disregard existing laws or weaken them, there are consequences.
The consequences will be continued illegal immigration, jobs that should be for
lawful US citizens are given to those here illegally, and the criminal illegal
aliens element will continue to be significantly higher than lawful US
Citizens.And for those that don't pay attention to what it costs for
illegal immigrants, in LA County taxpayers pony over a billion dollars a year,
and state taxpayers "contribute" over 6 billion dollars. And we
wonder why California is 26 billion dollars in the hole?
The "Compact" is a bad solution to a big problem.It
attempts to provide incentives for illegals to come and remain here, at the time
when we should be doing the opposite to help secure the border.The
only solution to the immigration problem is for people who want to come to the
U.S. to follow our laws. Do that and they are welcome. Anything else is
unacceptable, and anyone (U.S. citizen or otherwise) who undermines our
immigration process should be prosecuted.
Re: "Utah proposal catching on. . ."Not in border states,
it's not. New Mexico's new governor just enacted Arizona's approach by
executive order.Illegal immigration is recognized along the border
as an emergency, national security issue, requiring meaningful emergency
action.Utah has elected the head-in-sand approach.Iillegal immigration already has, and will continue to degrade personal and
public security in our state, until we recognize and deal with the threat.Neither endless hand wringing over the consequences to families of their
own illegal acts, nor symbolic signings of meaningless compacts, actually
addresses the issue.Utah's politicians should begin complying with
their oaths of office and adopt both Arizona and the New Mexico [legislative and
Timj I am LDS and just because Elder Oaks signed it doesn't make it the right
thing to do. Don't follow like a blind sheep just because the Church want's it.
It's not right for this Country or UT not to mention it's unfair to the
immigrants who followed the law and did the right thing.
Legislation should reflect the values of the community. I'm grateful that the
Utah Compact has reminded us of these values. Now it's up to our legislators to
do the right thing.
If idealism isn't enough to justify fixing the visa bottleneck, try
practicality. Having endured a great recession and facing a baby boom
retirement crisis in medicare and social security, lets balance our economy by
inviting the guest workers we want instead of forcing them to self select
through illegal entry. This policy kills eight birds with one
stone:1. Less pressure for illegal entry means that the Border
Patrol can focus more on guns, drugs, and general security.2. More
workers to fuel our recovery.3. More contributors to Social
Security and Medicare.4. More workers we didn't have to pay to
raise and educate as children.5. Less incentive for identity
fraud.6. Less family separation as temporary workers may cross
freely, including those that choose to retire back home.7. More
stability in Mexico as our growing tide of prosperity also lifts their economy
and reduces the enticement for desperate workers to resort to the drug trade.8. Fewer victims for the drug cartels and smugglers to feed on.If idealism doesn't inspire you, try selfish practicality.
Illegal aliens are just that: Illegal. However, having seen firsthand the
unintended consequences of the AZ law, I support the compact as a first step to
a comrehensive solution, whatever that may be.
The two sides on this issue seem so hung up on what to do about the "rule
of law" when they both need to back up and look at that law. Why did we
start making people illegal? It wasn't because of population control. It was
the unfounded fear of job loss by those who don't understand basic economics and
the natural fear of "different" people by all of us.Let's
undo our mistake by broadening the irrational and cruelly strict immigration
quotas. Otherwise we are stuck trying to select the better of two virtues,
enforcement and compassion. Choose both. Streamline the visa process.
If you're LDS, you may be interested in knowing that Elder Oaks signed the Utah
Compact, and the LDS church supports the Compact.It's a reasonable
response to xenophobic hysteria. Immigration is way down due to the recession.
Don't make immigrants your scapegoat.
Stupidity is like a virus,, it spreads. Now we are going to have a CON PACT in
other states? This is nothing but open border amnesty hacks doing their usual
self serving re-definition of "compassion" to benefit those they want
to exploit to the detriment of American citizens who have a right to be here.
Maybe they can get Robles and Yapass to come and help them set up a "work
permit" to allow illegals in their states to break the law until they can
change the law to their liking.
The Utah Coalition should all be arrested as terrorist. The citizens of Utah see
this coalition for what it is and we do not support it at all. This coalition is
nothing more than an organized group of businesses who are criminally employing
illegal aliens and illegal foreign nationals. We are not talking about immigrant
who have papers and documents, this coalition has formed itself to promote
criminal occupation by illegal foreign nationals.Our legislators who
are business owners with conflicts of interest to legal immigration are using
this coalition as a means to bury their heads to hide from the truth. These
coalitions are nothing more than organized Antillean employers who are
exploiting and keeping the unemployed americans out of jobs. With unemployment
at 17%, the real number, we can no longer tolerate the impunity that business is
violating all federal labor laws.
This is great news. My only hope is that Utah may be more of a leader than in
words-only, and pass good law in 2011, reflecting the wisdom, the compassion,
and the humanitarianism of the Utah Compact that is so needed to make right,
the bad that besets us now.
lets get this problem solved now.were in a nation of everyones voices of
Pro-illegal-open border groups are using each others propaganda material?
Amazing. It's handled in civil courts, because that's who handles
deportations. It does not take away the fact that it's a crime. Nor does it
dismiss the fact that the people doing it are committing multiple felonies by
working, using stolen id's lying on forms etc. Do you really think
Americans are that stupid?