Sometimes you find the diamond in the rough. BYU find them all the time because
we have to. So does BSU and Utah. Utah will definately have the PAC12 edge going
forward especially if they ever win a Rose Bowl game. Let's cheer for both
schools to succeed. I'll always cheer for my Alma Mater BYU but I refuse to hate
@slcftballActually it's about 75% for 5's but drops to about60% for 4's.
But these are the crem de crem so obviously it's going to come out higher than
50/50 it's the 2's and 3's that are the challenge to predict.Scoobie
Heart doesn't win Championships! It helps but Athletes, Speed do!
@slcftballI don't know what the percentages are but I think most
people agree that the kids actually given the highest ratings are good players
and most will pan out. Where the ratings fail is with alot of the kids given 2
and 3 star ratings.I would love to see a breakdown but simple
numbers alone would seem to say that more 2-3 star rated kids turn out to be top
players than 4 and 5 star kids. Mainly because there are more 3 star kids by
multiples of 10 than there are 4 and 5 star combined.There are about
30 5 star rated players and about 150 4 star players. I think there are around
120 D1 schools. Only 2 schools got more than 2 of the 5 stars and only the top
10 schools got double digit 4 stars. all the 4 and 5 stars added together only
make up about the same number as total D1 schools.Niether BYU or
utah is going get that many of them ever. They are always going to have to make
do with 3 star kids and occasionally pick off some 4 stars. Just how it is.
Hate to tell you....but the stars and recruiters are correct 90 percent of the
time on 4 and 5 star kids. Now, some people do sometimes emerge and weren't
noticed, and everyone loves the walk-on to scholarship kids. But those 4 and 5
star kids that are ranked high can play except for the occasional 10 percent.
90 percent is pretty good odds.......
I love watching players with heart over stars any day.
Stars don't really tell you how well a player will play at the next level. At
The Silver Dome when BYU lost to Marshal I gave a whole slew of clippings on Ben
Rothlesburger from just his Senior year... to one of Edwards assistants. He
looked at them and said he'd never heard of him... but said he'd look them over
and pass them on. Not unusual since Ben only played Quarterback his Senior year
at Findly H.S... just down the road 22 miles from here in Bowling Green, Ohio.
He'd been pretty much relagated to playing a receiver since his coaches son was
a year older and already playing the QB position...though never as good as Ben
did in that one season. I spoke to Ben once and asked him if he'd heard of BYU.
He began by talking about Steve Young...so obviously he had. I asked him if
he'd consider playing at BYU. He laughed...then smiled and said I'll play
anywhere they let me throw the ball and I don't have to play behind a coaches
son. Ben literally came out of nowhere.Scoobie
Re: DuckhunterDo you use lower case for proper names related to Utah
or Ute fans as a juvenile form of disrespect, or are you just a careless typist?
@Bugoff In some ways you miss some of the really good points. BYU
has done very well..in fact... downright exceptionally well despite the lack of
4&5 star recruits. It has a National Championship. It has a Heisman Trophy.
And it has numerous other best at position trophies like The Outland...the
Butkus... the Davey O'Brian and the Doke Walker...plus a fair list of All
Americans most of whom were barely 1's or two's. We're definitely not an
Alabama or even in the same level of play as Half of the SEC. If we were...
we'd be getting some of those Defensive Corners and Safety's we've never been
able to attract...despite our Winter's here in the Rockies. The one aspect
that's missing here is that the Mountain West is growing so fast and soon to
become a megametro area. It's just now barely coming into it's own. There's a
rich array of really good athletes here who are only now being discovered...and
like it or not Utah, BYU and USU almost have an exclusive here. All 3 programs
will grow more successful from here.
Duck Hunted;" Still waiting on all those 4 star guys to appear on the
list. LOLDuckhunter | 8:45 p.m. Jan. 30, 2011American Fork,
UTSounds like "hope" is all they have. They sure don't have many
"commits".LOL PAY ATTENTION ! 19 recruits signed so far, moved up 4 spots on nations recruiting list for
colleges, 2-4 star athletes. Average--2.95' Glad to see that you managed
a diploma from Provo High. Weren't accepted into college were you. That
Geneva ground water has leached into your coconut. Stay out of the marches in
West Orem and seek proffesional help.. your not funny and the delusion that you
think your clever has become an addiction. Please seek help.
howard are you trying to compete with wedgie and christina for biggest
dimwit?No one says the star system is completely worthless, just
that it has limitations. I'm not sure why you love it so much considering that
utah isn't exactly hauling in the 4 stars either and aren't even close to
sniffing any 5 stars. I think it is fairly accurate on ranking the
easiest kids to rank. Those are the ones that are so obviously and ridiculously
athletic that even you could probably spot one of them as a top talent.Where they fail is with kids that are early commits so they don't attend many
camps or else kids that simply don't attend camps for whatever reason. Most of
these ratings come from what these kids do at these camps and if they don't go
then they don't get much of a rating. It is certainly fun to rub the
ratings of your recruiting class into your rival but the truth is neither utah
or BYU is signing all that highly rated a class.You need to hope
those lower rated guys panout since that is most of utahs class.
Yes some college walkons play in the NFL and some 5 star recruits bust. However, the odds are with the higher star players. If BYU had all 4 and
5 star recruits they would win more games. BYU's biggest problem is
not getting good enough players at key positions.
@HedgieSorry friend... You have it sort of backwards. Notre Dame didn't
bother to back up any interest in Mac. It was all pretty much one sided after
Dan Devine learned that Mac was blind in one eye. That's why one of the big 3
tv networks did a documentary entitled "The Devine Mistake" after Mac
set 71 NCAA passing records creating 17 new catagories never before tracked.
Mac's place in the history of NCAA football will always be tied only to
BYU...Notre Dame wouldn't even acknowledge him let alone even open the door.As usual you are way off the mark Hedgie!Scoobie
Re: DuckhunterThe sudden realization that star count doesn't matter
that much is curious given the Cougar Nations collective hyper-ventilation over
a certain 5 star QB before he had even taken a D1 snap.I wonder if
the Nation would be hyper-ventilating if there were a 5 star stud in this year's
class, or if they would still think that stars don't matter?
The Utes recruiting class of 2011 can be summed up in one phrase: even a blind
squirrel will find a nut every now and then. The Utes are going to get worked
their first few seasons in the PAC12.
@TJovercoming drug addiction is possible.
The no-class crews whiney, cracking junior high voices are getting desperate
now. Where are all your stars girls? I think all the 4 stars guys are waiting to
see if other schools are still interested. In the mean time, your obsession is
signing the types of athletes who will be worthy of the national prominence and
respect they have earned.
Not many more stars in utahs howard. Looks like you just suspend reality to try
and make false points.
But Hedgie, You haven't answered the question yet, now that Utah and
BYU have essentially parted ways, why do you continue to care so much about BYU?
The only other team you have even mentioned today is Notre Dame, and that was
in regards to McMahon. What is the fascination?
Looks like a dearth of stars in this years BYU recruiting class has helped the
Cougar Nation realize that stars don't really matter after all.
Sorry hedgehog, Bluto is correct. Mac wanted to play at ND but they did not
come calling. That is why he ended up at BYU.Many interesting comments.
High school is one thing, college quite another. The heart will determine who
goes where, not the stars.
hog, having a down year with new players doesn't put the team out of the
national competition. Bronco has has many 10 plus win seasons and now has a new
staff with amazing backgrounds.By the way, thanks for mentioning
NATIONAL. Fits well before championship doesn't it? You're probably not
familiar with that math equation though.
Here's the thing with highly ranked recruits and walk-onsObviously
no one knows how their careers will turn out before either of them play. But. .
.for the most part highly recruited players have more success more often than
walk ons do. That's just plain facts. You never know what you have in a recruit
but highly recruited players at least give you more of an idea of the great
potential they have and are more likely to be great players even though they
don't always turn out. So there is always good reason to be excited about highly
ranked players even though you don't know how they will turn out. With walk ons,
you don't really know anything unless you have height/weight/forty time
information and what accomplished in high school. Most of the time though, walk
ons are walk ons for a reason. More often than not, they simply aren't as good
or they would not be walk ons. The sign that you have a good walk on
is hearing about practice performance. If you're starting a walk on when you
could start a scholarship player, that's a positive.
HedgehogYet Once Again, you have it all wrong..Jim
McMahon often stated that if he had been offered by Notre Dame he would have
gone there. It was his Dream school.His Father was Catholic his
Mother is LDS.On Johnny Carson he stated he would go to BYU all over
again, because it's where he met his wife, the daughter of a Stake President.His book ripping BYU, notwithstanding.How often does one man
have to be wrong.Do you read and research anything?So
uninformed it defies all reason.And there was no "star
system" when Jimmy Mac played.
"Jim McMahon wasn't highly reguarded"ND was intrested in
A lot of tds using the o'l stars don't make the player spin.Yes, I
understand many highly ranked recurites don't live up to the hype. But no one
can disput the correlation between consistently strong recruiting classes and
winning on a NATIONAl level.If BYU wants to achieve the
"exposure" the soooo desperatly crave they cannot afford a non ranked
recruiting class. just saying.Keep whistling in the wind but your
looking at the future of BYU football ---- Not Ranked.
Some of my favorite players have been walk-ons, but not all my favorite players.
You never know what will happen until they get out there and play the game.
As long as our one star kids continue to beat the u it is all good. I just wish
the u had mens vollyball, track & field, soccer, lacrosse and cross
country...because we would crush the u in these sports as well.It's
good to be a Coug.
Notre Dame has as many stars as anyone....stars are all hype as is the ND
Program....Even the DNEWS and SLLIB MVP's in this state are dubbed
based on performance of two games, the semis and the finals every year...its all
very surface, no real depth of character.....Jim McMahon wasn't highly reguarded
at all except by his father coming out of Roy High....but there was only one
choice back then and he made it! He had no stars, Today he would be 6 stars!
We all have a chance to create our future. Dedication, determination,
persistence year after year give you a chance to win.There are a lot
of factors that determine who turns into a starter. How they handle the time
freedom of college is hard to predict.Also, some of these kids were driven
so hard by their parents to play football that by the time they get to college
they are burned out. It's happening right now all around us. Everyone thinks they are raising the next Jimmer only to find out that their
constant pushing will backfire on them.Enjoy the journey. It's
impossible for everyone to be the starting QB at BYU. Thank goodness there are
more important goals in life to chase.Some people are awesome (5
star) High School players, others dominate college (Ty Detmer) and others make
it to the pro bowl. It's ok to celebrate whatever success you have. There are
some great people who never played in the Super Bowl.....or college......or even
high school.Withholding your praise because they are not the
"best" only means that you are a loser.Take the high road
and cheer for everyone!
Its the same thing every year; if your team has a good recruiting class, you
pump your chest about it. If your team doesn't have a great recruiting class,
and your rival does, you say "let them prove it on the field"Its true of every team, no matter what.
Hedgie, Normally I ignore you, sometimes you make insightful
comments, today you just showed your infatuation with BYU. I thought you were a
U fan, yet you didn't even mention the U, and you completely missed the point of
the article. Sure, the SEC teams loaded with talent are more likely to win a
championship, but sometimes you never know (i.e. Weddle being a 2 star recruit
and Ben Olson being much higher and their respective results). If
your team is so superior, and BYU is so irrelevant, why do you even care? I
honestly haven't read an article about Utah since their bowl game, yet you're
still gushing over every BYU article you can find. I just don't get it.
Well Mike... having pointed these facts out in a post to Harmon's Jan 30th
article on Return Missionaries... I'd like to emphasize the fact that there's
more to the equation of how well these so called 5 star players will do. The
Peter Principle seemingly more often than not catches up with these 4&5 star
players early. It's sort of like trying to build a pyramid. Imperfections and
breakdowns in a lot of those sound looking building blocks will occur. You can
load up on all the 4's and 5's you want to... which will really look good on
paper. But...after the onset of injuries, academic problems, personal problems,
and the major factor that the majority of these so called blue chippers cannot
perform to the same level as they did in High School you are going to wind up
with a majority of your team being the ones and two's and probably several
unheard ofs. That's where the role of the coaches comes into play more than
anything else. Maturity is one thing. Ability another. But the value of a good
coaching staff is...Priceless. Watch what Happens.Scoobie
What does the last 20 National Champions have in common?Stars and
lots of lots off STARZZZZ.Go ahead with your damage control spin,
but I promise you an unranked BYU recruiting class will never EVER compete at
the highest level.Sure, the tds might find the "diamond in the
rough" long snapper or kicker in this class but so will Idaho St.
Once again the PR machine is in full our SPIN.Let me ask you this,
Would the "corporation" allow such a article if they tds had a highly
touted class coming in ? Y didn't we see this type of article last year?Trying to sell the "flock" that a 1&2 star recruit is just
as good as a 4&5 star recruit.... deep down you know this arguement is not
Re: Big Hapa'That is why you quit on your dreams ..'Really ? Ouch .. thanks for the encouragement. ;-)
I get tired of articles or opinions like this being aired so heavily out of this
state. Obviously he has a point. Recruiting evaluation is no sure thing and
they're going to get a lot of them wrong. There are going to be highly-touted
players who flop and non-touted players who become stars. But what this article
fails to take into account is the inverse. How many players with little or no
recruiting hype never hit the field or make it into big-time football? The vast
majority. Kevin Curtis and Eric Weddle are unique because their stories are so
unheard of. They're 1 in 1,000 situations. Conversely, how many highly recruited
or hyped players become stars? Quite a few. Guys like Tebow, Newton, Vince
Young, Matthew Stafford, Jimmy Clausen, Matt Barkley, Reggie Bush, Terrell
Pryor, Ingram and Richardson at Bama, Julio Jones, AJ Green... it goes on and
on. Every one of those guys came out of high school with immense recruiting
hype. And guess what? The hype was right! Cherry-picking examples to support his
point doesn't make this article correct. Recruiting evaluation is inexact, but
inexact doesn't mean inherently wrong
If the article is boooooring why are you commenting? I think that is stupid.That is why you quit on your dreams, you just never know what the new
day will bring.
I can't agree more with this article. I just laugh at all the people fretting
over the stars next to names and proclaiming themselves champions based on
"Boooooring!"....what????????this article echos my
feelings EXACTLY! Some much is said and compared and boasted about when it comes
to recruiting classes and what not. To me, how many stars a player or has or how
much they dominated other high schools means only so much. It really comes down
to the system in which they play in and their play on the field. like the
article said, walk-ons and 1 or 2 star recruits have out-perfomed the higher
ranked guys. With that, thats why i dont cry myself to sleep or rant and gnash
my teeth when BYU doesnt have a top recruiting class. I mean, who cares? Some
players will come in and contribute right away, others over time, and some wont
at all. Thats just how it is.
Cort Dennison, over looked by local teams, and especially by the Utes, is having
a very nice career at the University of Washington. I say especially the Utes,
because Dennison is not LDS and did not pursue BYU - he was raised a U fan.
Guess who his parents will be rooting for next fall when UW comes to