DJ,I wish more people were like you.
The point is, when we start giving up liberties we are then put on a slippery
slope.While it may just appear that we're trying to find illegals,
how far are we going to go? At what point does it destroy who we are? What happens if we begin to questions those looking of Arab descent? Jewish?
Christian? What the Repubs in this state want to do is to put us on
a very slippery slope crashing into Tyranny. I for one am afraid.
If Utahns are so racist and hostile to immigrants and outsiders, then why are
there tens of thousands of illegal immigrants here? Why are thousands fleeing
the failing economic and social policies of California to move here? The facts
disprove the claims of racism.
It's not really 'whites only'. It's LDS whites only. Other races welcome only
if they marry a good church member and convert.
No, but I'd be happier with fewer socialists, criminal sympathizers, and
left-wingers in our government. I'm sure many of them would be happier in
Venezuela or North Korea.
ConservOne sounds like he might be happier in Egypt with the rest of the
anarchists who hate the government.
The Real Maverick | 3:59 p.m.I know, I know... the Repubs out there
complaining that everything they don't like is hurting their freedom and killing
the Constitution are loony too.BTW... Most Repubs don't rant against
the TSA. I'm not a Rebpub, but I'm a Conservative, so I'm pretty sure you group
us together... but I'm happy the TSA is there to protect me when I fly.My position is... If you can search me when entering any Federal building
(court house, office buildings, Smithsonian Museums, etc)... you dang well have
the right to search people getting on planes.Some complain that
presumes everyone to be guilty.... BUNK... Is everybody entering a Smithsonian
museum "Guilty"? Is every person entering a court building
"guilty"? It's just silly faux_angst if they have no
problem when it's done at all these other places (Jazz games too)... and then
they fall down kicking and screaming when it happens at the airport.Patriot_Act too. I was against it when BUSH passed it AND Obama passed it.Same for Bush's "Comprehensive Immigration Reform". I don't change_positions based_on_the letters by the Presidents name.
"And thanks for pointing out what it's destroying. Though I don't see how
it destroys our FREEDOM.You sound like the people who think every
law they don't like is destroying their freedom.I can't prove it
WON'T destroy our Freedom... so I'll assume you are right. If it's going to
destroy our freedom and the constitution... I don't want it. "See, many repubs rant and rave against TSA and how they force Americans to go
through unnecessary processes to weed them out from terrorists.Meanwhile, many repubs support legislation that will force many Americans to
go through unnecessary processes to weed them out from illegals.Why
the double standard repubs?See, anytime we give an agency this type
of power, we're taking freedom away.I have a little quote for you
who support this type of legislation"Those who would give up
Essential Libertyto purchase a little Temporary Safety,deserve
neither Liberty nor Safety."-Ben Franklin
"Choose the Right". If Utahns choose the right, they will
support existing laws and the requisite enforcement. If
non-citizens choose the right, they will subject themselves to the proper, legal
method of obtaining permission to enter this country.Those who
"choose the wrong", and those who support them, cover their actions
and attitudes by shouting at those who "choose the right".Thus it has ever been. Thus it will ever be. Derision and contempt from
those in the "great and spacious building" may be loud, and they may
pull many away from true principles. But this will never make their wrong into
right, any more than shouting "It's dark" at noon will actually cause
the sun to darken.We're going to "obey, honor and sustain the
law". If you don't want to, at least have the intellectual honesty to
proclaim your intent to "disobey, dishonor, and subvert the law".
"It takes an overactive imagination to pretend the modern American
conservative movement (that bears no resemblance whatsoever to our father's and
grandfather's brand of conservatism) is not the key player in vitriol and
division."Sure, Left-wingers NEVER spout death threats,
insults, vitriol, etc. What planet do you live on?We can show
selective "compassion" to those chosen by the Left, and we can also
throw out the rule of law completely and live in chaos. That's where we appear
to be heading, anyway. The Left has been in power too long. Throw them all out.
It takes an overactive imagination to pretend the modern American conservative
movement (that bears no resemblance whatsoever to our father's and grandfather's
brand of conservatism) is not the key player in vitriol and division.Talk-radio pundits are making fortunes capitalizing on this.
The Real Maverick | 12:13 p.m.I didn't see "racial
profiling" anywhere in the bill... Have you read it?P.S. name
calling (like "Repub nutcakes", etc)... never leads to a civil
discussion of the topic. It just starts the name calling, rhetoric mongering,
bickering match.I didn't see anybody calling people names in here
till you came along. Well... except LOL who sorta called us all
"Racists".Maybe we should just stick to the point, instead
of calling people names.And thanks for pointing out what it's
destroying. Though I don't see how it destroys our FREEDOM.You
sound like the people who think every law they don't like is destroying their
freedom.I can't prove it WON'T destroy our Freedom... so I'll assume
you are right. If it's going to destroy our freedom and the constitution... I
don't want it.
LOL | 11:21 a.m.About the, "they all think alike, look alike,
dress alike, talk alike"... comment you made at 11:21.You
said..."In any predominate-leaning culture, people have the tendency
to think alike, look alike, dress alike, talk alike"...WOW...
that just sounds so laced with bigotry to me. You probably don't even realize
how bigoted stuff like that sounds.To illustrate... let me switch
the target group from Mormons/Utahns... to the Black culture. There ARE
communities where they are the predominate culture, right? Let's use Oakland
California for example.If you said (talking about Oakland, Compton,
etc)... "They all look alike, think alike, dress alike, talk alike"...
do you think you sound like a bigoted racist??? Obviously.But just
switching the target for your bigotry, generalization and stereotyping from
race... to religion, or state of residence... makes it OK in your mind???I don't agree. It's the same thing. Bigotry. Plain and simple.It's the same bigoted thought pattern... just applied to a different
group.You seem to lecture people on the exact things YOU do.
"How is it "Destructive"? What does the law actually
destroy?"FREEDOM.That's what it destroys.Where in the Constitution does it give the federal government or the states
rights to let policemen question people's citizenship?Please repubs, find
this for me.Anytime we give this type of power to others it puts us
on a slippery slope.What happens next? Can they then stop anybody if
their voice appears different? What if they're wearing veils or have long
beards? Do we really want racial profiling? Where does this road
lead us to?I know, and it's certainly not the free America that our
dear Founding Fathers imagined. You Repub nutcakes are trampling the
constitution and destroying the American dream. Give me freedom or
give me death.
In any predominate-leaning culture, people have the tendency to think alike,
look alike, dress alike, talk alike ...When things take too hard of a
right turn a one-step-closer-to-fascism exists and the scapegoating runs
rampant.Thank God the area is more of a melting pot than some might care
to believe and more and more people are speaking out against injustices
including those pertaining to race.
IT'S TIME THEY GO Utah, this sounds more like Lady Gaga's love on the rocks
for ill gotten gains then it does with activist liberal compassionate citizens
of Utah County, that trys to ignore any tougher legislation than Arizona and
the law's of the land, for their own ill gotten gains, when two word's pop-up
of illegal immigration, or, deport illegals, or call ICE. Not only that, but
people from all over the world come to Utah to enjoy its beauty and associate
with friendly, welcoming neighbors, then over stay their visa and don't go home
either. Utah is a "melting-pot" for this type of illegal action's of
breaking the law. It's now "Utah the anything goes state." They
think they are above the law. They are not. They are scared to death to say
papez pleez, and buy off the Border Patrol presence and ICE, with not only
with destructive legislation the rest of America has to pay for, and cover it up
with these illegal's are oppressed, hungry and in need and are welcome in my
home hogwash. Just deport them. It's that simple. "MY-VIEW."
How is it "Destructive"? What does the law actually destroy?I don't know much about it so I'm seriously looking for answers.
Sandstrom's bill is indistinguishable from the first Nuremberg race law.
(Remember those old WWII movies ... "Your papez, pleez?")
I just got back from a week-long conference in Arizona. Things looked
reasonably busy down there to me. And the Border Patrol presence looked about
as heavy as over in Texas. In any event, Utah needs to do what it
can to get rid of illegals. The proposed bill that places penalties on not
using eVerify sounds like the appropriate way to do this. If illegals can't get
a job, then it should be easier for them to go home.
Our old slogan, "Utah the greatest snow on earth."Our new
slogan, "Utah the anything goes state."
@JMA, here's another headline: "OK if Utah employers break the law".
Focus on those creating the jobs for undocumented labor. Sandstrom is doing no
one a favor.
Here's another headline:Welcome to Utah! We don't care if you break
If we believe in law, then laws must be enforced. If we believe that justice is
blind, then all offenders must be prosecuted.On the other hand, if
we believe that some offenders should be exempt because of the color of their
skin, or because of their place of birth, or because we like them, then why have
laws? Why not just admit that 'anything goes' in Utah?We have laws
for a purpose. They protect us and our property from those who neither respect
us or our property. When people enter this country illegally, they
show contempt towards those who live here. They show contempt for our system
when they use our schools without legally paying the taxes that support those
schools. They show contempt for our hospitals when they use the emergency rooms
without any intention of paying for those services. Guess who pays for those
services - yes, you and me in higher insurance premiums and higher co-pays.Without respect for our culture, there must be laws. Without
enforcement of those laws, we show preference for one criminal over another.Society cannot function when everyone decides for himself which laws he
If Utah passes an Arizona style law, it deserves the fallout. I don't want that
to happen. It is hard enough to get enough money for education, we are on our
road to recovery. Our legislators have decisions to make, I sincerely hope they
make the right ones.
DJ,I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself here. I'm not fond
of Sandstrom's proposed legislation, but I doubt it will significantly harm the
economy of the state. There are other more obvious problems with his proposal.
We already have an oddball reputation anyway. This is just something
else to heap on the stack.