When Luz Robles ran for office, she didn't have illegal immigration as one of
her platforms. Now she seems to be only focusing on one issue...any form of
amnesty for illegal immigrants. She needs to go.
People are asked to leave venues on private property all the time after the
event has ended.
I find it interesting that Daniel Arguleta made such a fuss(I watched his video
of the incident. "Don't touch me" with a nod to MC Hammer.) about
being asked to leave private property. So, the property owners ask someone to
leave and they put up a fuss, despite the fact that to remain there would have
been a crime? (Trespassing.) Why does this sound familiar? Oh yeah...it reminds
me of the illegal aliens and their sobsisters putting up a fuss about being
asked to leave the United States.Throw them out and send their
anchor babies with them AND heavily fine or imprison their employers who looked
the other way. (The sword cuts both ways.) Let them follow the proper path to
legal immigration and work hard to fix the system so our great land can accept
millions of our downtrodden neighbors in an orderly fashion. Let
market forces determine what a fair wage is once the illegals are gone.
It makes little sense to ask outlaws how the laws should be upheld. That would
be similar to asking the inmates how a prison should be run.People
were crying and hollering at Utah's last execution but it did not change the
law..or the outcome.
It is a federal isssue. Apparently many good citizens have not read the
Constitution. Utah can send some money to the federal govt. (instead being a
welfare state) with a request that the feds do more in illegal immigration
control. If I paid taxes in Utah to the Utah govt. I would be screaming,
"Don't you dare do that!" I want my money for state appropriate
activities, paying for better schools and such. If one has a problem with the
fed. govt. and its policies and actions, then one tells one's fed. reps. to push
it through Congress and convince the President of your case.Sounds
interesting, energizing everyone to watch out for those illegals, when we should
be watching out for the collusion between big business and big state govt. and
Our Government, has allowed the invasion of 30 million criminals in direct
violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution. they force American tax
payers to pay Billions to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders
children, free medical care,massive document fraud, & are destroying our
schools, hospitals, communities, culture while Robbing, Raping, Killing &
Assaulting American Citizens WAKE UP PEOPLE! obama and holder need to be
IMPEACHED! for not upholding the oath of office they swore to defend the
Constitution! If these clowns were to do their job, this would all be a Moot
point! Anchor babies and their criminal parents go, period, and cut the
phony tears, you knew you were breaking the law when you crossed the border. shut down any business hiring illegal labor and confiscate all property
belonging to the owner. Property will be sold at auction and the proceeds to pay
for the massive deportation. Oh and owners go to jail. Got a better idea?
Lets hear it!
Several latino men were asked to leave just for mingling? It is apparent that
racism is rampant in Utah. I am Latino and I very much understand the rule of
law. But it is not lawful for the state of Utah to create a law that lies in
the purview of the Federal government. It is blatantly unconstitutional for a
state to enforce Federal law. To do so is an affront to the Founding Fathers
and the Constitution itself. When will Utah stop being a rebellious state?
I hope the lawmakers do not wuss out. It is time to get tough on the illegals.
They will self deport if it is uncomfortable to be here. What does it take for
these pinheads to define illegal? Sutherland is only looking out for business.
Cheap labor at the rest of our expense. I need cheap gas for my business. Should
the rest of you pay for me to have cheap gas? Same old Same old
Federal authorities are vigorously enforcing the law, more under the Obama
Administration than ever before. The problem is huge. one of the biggest
problems is that U.S. businesses like the cheap labor and are creating
opportunities for illegal aliens. Look at yourself. But let me go out on a
limb, because it will be a pretty safe limb, anti-immigrant people would not
like aliens who have a different skin color and accent/language even if they
were here legally. You can interpret that any way you like and take it to the
If the feds wont do the job; its up to the states because the states are the
ones who pay the largest costs due to medicaid matches, jail costs, education,
etc.Are our lawmakers going to do the job they were elected to do or
just pass the buck to the feds who also arent doing it?We for one
are fed up with all the budget cuts being made so we can pay for anchor babies
and illegals. Past time to get rid of federal mandates like educating all kids
regardless of status and paying for the cost of anchor babies with a law from
1868. 2 Supreme court rulings and or Congress clarifying the 14th would go a
long way to solving this country and our states fiscal problems. You know they
are not going to rule the wrong way due to the current makeup.
What a farce some of these people are. Luz Robles argues on the one hand that it
isn't the state's job to enforce immigration laws and on the other hand she
thinks it IS the state's job to grant permits to illegals to break the law and
stay here and work.What a contradiction! She makes no sense at all and
is totally out of her league intellectually. she is a representative of a group
of law breaking criminals and has no right to be in the Utah legislature at all.
I wonder how many of the people who voted for her did so legally and how many
just showed up and voted. Shurtleff and other law enforcement hacks who
show up at these events and argue that they shouldn't be forced to do their jobs
are a disgrace to the state and should be shown the door. The bottom line is
that the majority of voters in Utah want the law enforced and illegals sent
home, all of these open borders advocates are irrelevant. Support Sandstrom and
let's send a message.
His opponents, however, countered that it is not Utah's job to take on
immigration enforcement in the vacuum of a failed federal policy.=====================================How dramatic. It is not failed..
it was simply abused and underfunded. It can be enforced, and has been enforce
in the past, and very successfully.Government is there to protect
the people. Interior enforcement of the Immigration Law is the way to do that,
and that ..is.. the job of the State where the Federal Government refuses to do
that. Sadly, the Federal Government used this ploy to get cheap workers and now
the issue has to be sorted out, and until the States start the process.. show
willingness.. it won't be done. So it is VITAL that Utah carry forward with its
For me the root of this is deeper. Ultimately we are fighting over two things:
First, resources and second culture.Let's face it, America is a
socialist nation. We have redistribution of wealth programs all over the place.
Where we differ from Europe, China and the former Soviet Union is are
pro-business environment and the enforcement of programs. Since we have been
very open about business and property rights we have had a much stronger
economy. The weaker the economy the more force is needed to comply with these
programs. As our economy weakens we fight over resources more.The
second is culture. In the old days it didn't matter where you came from, you
would learn the language, keep your culture but over time become very much
American. Now days we abhor this. We "celebrat" everything, to include
cultures that fail. This reminds me of the native people in the Amazon basin.
Like some science expirement liberals insist the outside world have no contact
with them in some false notion that it is best to celebrat who they are. Almost
like people in a zoo. Disturbs me.We are doing the same with
I went to the debate last evening and it was very interesting. The boo's and cat
calls were almost 100% from the anti-immigration side. There was some clapping
from those who recognize that these people are real human beings and that they
are in a hard position. This has been created by 40 years of not dealing with
the problem of having jobs that need to be filled to expand the U.S. economy and
not allowing enough individuals to enter legally. I know that some people say
that if we got rid of undocumented people unemployed Americans would take their
jobs but there have not been many unemployed computer programmers willing to
move their families to sparsely populated areas of Utah to shear sheep, or
harvest crops, or clean hotels. We need to fix the system, those who can not see
this fact are blinded by emotions that have a negative nature. For those how can
understand that these are real human beings and the vast majority are very good
hard working people please step up and sign the Utah Compact.
I'll say it again. AZ is the backbone of our country. Illegal means ILLEGAL!!
Utah should follow suit!!
I for one am really tired of people like ESQUIRE saying that anyone who is tired
of all the mess the illeagals cause in this country and really only
prejudice.I truly feel for the people who were brought here as children or
were born here and this is the only country that they know.But I am
concerned about having a border that can be crossed so easily that thousands are
doing it. If the Latin Americans can do it what is going to stop terrorist from
doing it? How does having an open conduit for terrorist makeing our country
safe?I also don't like the way they are using up our money...
weather in be in welfare,schooling, social secuity, health care etc.. this
should go to the leagal citiczens of this country not someone who is
"breaking and entering' our country.Let me get this stright!!!!
I DON'T CARE what the color of there skin is ! What I TRULY care about is if
they are legal citizens or not.
My wifes grandfather came to this country under immigration policies and became
a citizen.1. he had to have a sponser 2. he had to list his destination in
the United States where he was going. (in other words had to have a plan and a
means to carry out that plan before comming here.)when he arrived he
stopped speaking his native language (which I do not agree with) because he
wanted be become American. I have no problem people speaking other languages,
only they need to read, write and speak english. Illegal is Illegal send them
and their kids back and make a clear policy how they can work towards comming
back legally. With their employers and neighbors that do not want them to leave
they should be able to find a sponser. The States should have their laws on
immigration. fed can't and shouldn't be every where at one time. bring it down
to communities and the issue will become more manageable.
To DixieAggie,You say you are Latino and that it is
"unconstitutional for a state to enforce federal law" and yet your
appointed hero, Luz Robles, is trying to get the state to pass a law that
overrides federal law and grants amnesty in the form of work permits to
illegals. What do you actually believe in? Anything that allows your people to
break the law and loot the state treasury? None of your arguments make any
sense, you are on both sides of the debate whenever it suits your purposes. Quit
trying to rationalize law breaking and tell your countrymen to show they deserve
to be here by coming here legally in the first place.
Should someone who often speeds be exempt from the legal consequences of
speeding simply because they haven't been pulled over yet?Should
someone who trespasses be allowed to remain on trespassed property simply
because they have been there for a time?Should illegal immigrants be
allowed to remain in a country they illegally entered simply because they have
been there for a time?The children of illegal immigrants who were
brought here have nobody to blame but their parents for their illegal status.
Sadly, some parents choose to act selfishly without thinking about how their
actions might adversely affect their family.
I am expected to follow the law, why do a number of Mexicans think they are
above the law? If I am a little short on cash maybe I should rob a bank and say
I only did it for my family and expect I should not get punished. Maybe
everyone should be able to pick a law to break and not get punished for it, why
do illegal immigrants want the right to break laws.
The feds may be charged with enforcing these laws but the impacts of
non-enforcement are felt right here in our communities and neighbourhoods. The longer we wait in protecting our citizens and the very integrity of
our society, the more illegals will come and the larger the problem will
become.It appears to me that the Sandstrom bill carries with it the
same compassion and sensitivity to enforce illegal alien laws as laws that are
enforced against illegal acts of citizens. This incorporates the intent of the
Illegal immigrants are criminals. Period. If they will not leave voluntarily,
they should be tried for their crimes. Do not be confused by the rhetoric that
they are just committing "little crimes". If you were caught doing the
same things that illegals do on a regular basis, you would be in trouble at
least and quite possibly sent to prison at worst. Amnesty is NOT a viable
option. It was tried before and obviously failed. Had it been successful, we
would not currently have 12,000,000 foreign criminals living in this country
illegally.If we make the mistake of granting amnesty for a second time, we
will undoubtedly send the message that our immigration laws are meaningless and
our borders are open.....
My grandmother came to this country legally. If we circumvent the legal
immigration policy for those here now, what do we do with the next wave of
illegals? We might as well have open borders if we ignore our own laws.
@Gentile 6:43 a.m.:"It is a federal isssue."If
so, I have an answer... since it's a federal issue, round up all illegals and
bus them to the District of Columbia (Washington D.C.). That's federal
property. States should have the right to control the property within the state
and to decide who will cross state borders."Utah can send some
money to the federal govt. (instead being a welfare state) with a request that
the feds do more in illegal immigration control."I think you've
got it backwards. The federal government should be sending money to the states
since illegals cost the states billions in education, welfare, and healthcare.
law enforcement, etc. Furthermore the fed is doing nothing about illegal
immigration (they need the Latino vote) so there is no need to send more tax
money... to do nothing.
Good debate! Informative and civilized! The low point??? when two panelists
introduced the 'Mormon' prophets quotations in an infantile and below-the-belt
effort to makes us, LDS people, be ashamed for pushing for the implementation of
the laws of the land! Imagine that!! It is, after all, commanded in the 12th
Article of Faith. SUSTAINING THE LAW... it does not matter what the vague
instructions 'du jour' are. A lawsless country will not benefit the illegals
either. They fled those nations. Where will we all go next? China?
Mark S. came up to a scouting event a few years ago and gave a great speech
about camelot and obeying the law. He ought to re-read his talk and put it into
play. Illegals need to go home. We need to seal the border. If they continue
to come across the border and use the system and suck up all the benefits we
will go bankrupt and America will disappear.
DixieAggie:"It is apparent that racism is rampant in
Utah".No, it is not apparent. Before flapping your gums about
it, perhaps you should find out if their were any other groups loitering around
(and loitering is illegal); if the ones that were asked to leave were the only
ones doing it, that is the issue, not singling someone out for their
"race" (you can't single someone out if they're the only ones)."But it is not lawful for the state of Utah to create a law that
lies in the purview of the Federal government".Yes, the primary
purview does lie with the federal government. But what recourse do we have when
those tasked with enforcing it don't? Should we just ignore the problem
completely? Don't individual States have the right to protect their
citizenry?"It is blatantly unconstitutional for a state to
enforce Federal law".Really? Where in the Constitution
-specifically - is that outlined? Again, if the feds don't enforce their own
laws, who will?"When will Utah stop being a rebellious
state?"Rebellious? Are you serious? Are you going all the way
back to the 1850's for references? Get real.
@DixieAggie 7:02 a.m.:"It is apparent that racism is rampant in
Utah."You must be talking about State Senator Luz Robles."I am Latino and I very much understand the rule of law."If you are in this country and not a citizen, you apparently don't
understand the law well enough to obey it."But it is not lawful
for the state of Utah to create a law that lies in the purview of the Federal
government."There are many federal laws that states are
required to enforce/implement, medicare and intended medicaid come to mind. "To do so is an affront to the Founding Fathers and the
Constitution itself."The founding fathers intended federal
powers to be limited and that the states and the people retain most of the
power. That's not happening. @When will Utah stop being a
rebellious state?"When illegals leave and go home.
@Tom 9:12 a.m.:"This has been created by 40 years of not
dealing with the problem of having jobs that need to be filled to expand the
U.S. economy and not allowing enough individuals to enter legally."Not so. It has been created by imported workers staying after their
visas run out. Fully forty percent of today's illegals overstay their visas."...some people say that if we got rid of undocumented people
unemployed Americans would take their jobs but there have not been many
unemployed computer programmers willing to move their families to sparsely
populated areas of Utah to shear sheep..."Very few fake
documented immigrants shear sheep. They work in building trades and many other
lines of work that unemployed computer programmers would gladly take.
Especially when unemployment runs out and they need food for their families.For those who want to see the effects of uncontrolled immigration, watch
'Immigration Gumballs' in YouTube.
Yes, illegals are people. Yes, we must treat them humanely. But that being said,
lets not pretend like they were dragged here, kicking & screaming, against
their will. Nothing could be further from the truth. They came of their own free
will and for their own benefit and they broke the law to do it. The fact
they want "a better life" is not a legitimate excuse. Most people want
a better life. Most people also understand that they do not have a right to
acuire by illegal means those things that are difficult to acquire by legal
means. And they certainly don't have a right to do it in a foreign country. All
illegals must be sent home. Anything less will just encourage more illegal
Paul Mero says "We have no authority or power to deport people". True,
But we can dry up the jobs Illegals hold with mandatory E-Verify statewide. We
can also cut off all freebies given to Illegals by the state. Wake up People
flood your Legislator with calls and Emails or we are going to still be paying
for Illegals. Let's put any Legislator who supports Illegals over Americans out
of office. Speak now or things will remain the same!
The most important part of the debate are the millions of children of illegal
immigrants who are American citizens. Kicking them out of their own country is
wrong and immoral. They have the right to grow up in their own country, get
free education and have access to all the oportunities that their country can
offer them. Besides their country needs them, not only their talents and
contributions but also their new blood. Who is going to pay for all of you who
in 15-30 years will be retiring? The size of retired Americans will be much
larger than the size of workers who will be paying for them. We want these kids
and we definetly NEED them. Braking the law is wrong, even a civil
offense. Braking a MORAL law is worse.What the Nazis did was legal.
Segregation was legal. What the US founding fathers did was illegal. What Dr
King did was illegal. What Rosa Parks did was illegal. On moral grounds we know
who was right and who was wrong.
These people came here because the jobs were waiting for them here. Employers
were hiring them because they could not find other workers (Americans). The economy was doing great, unemployment was very low. We as a society
(law enforcement, immigration, and consumers) turned a blind eye to this issue
and freely used illegal immigrants services (in fast food, restaurants,
schools, retailers, hospitals, hotels, construction, etc). Where were all those
who now decry illegal immigrantion? Enjoying freely of their services. I'm all for securing the border. We have that right. But that's for now and
the future. These families are already here. Their American children are already
here. As a country we need to do the right thing. Throwing out of
their own country MILLIONS of American children and deprive them of their rights
and opportunities is wrong. Breaking up families and depriving these children
of their parents and siblings is wrong. The illegal immigration
issue is less about breaking a civil offense and more about doing the right
thing, the MORAL thing.
If it is blatantly unconstutional for any body but the federalgovt to
enforce federal laws then local police should notinterfere with bank
roberies or drug trafficing.
"Many good citizens have not read the constitution"I have read
the constitution.No where in the constitution does it say that
immigrationis exclusively the right of the federal govt to control.In fact the word immigration is not even in the constitution.The word
naturaization is in the constitution but itonly gives the federal govt the
exclusive right to grant citizenship.
Christine- Whether or not children born in this country to illegal, criminal
invaders are citizens is debateable. What is not debateable, is the fact that
children should NOT be allowed to benefit from the criminal activities of their
parents. Do I have to explain why?
The following statement is Deseret News hyperbole. The audience was actually
fairly quiet considering the issue. From the DesNews, "Depending which side
spoke, multiple people in the crowd numbering nearly 700 would stand, cheer,
boo, or jeer, despite the moderator's earlier plea to keep it civil and refrain
from boisterous outbursts."The audience did spontaneously
murmur and groan when Paul Mero, the president of the Sutherland Institute, said
that those that supported enforcement were no different than those that
supported Jim Crow Laws. I don't think that most of those in audience liked
being referred to as bigots.
When talking about spiraling taxes, when governors are looking for more revenue,
they have not the backbone to explain that large portions of taxpayers money is
being siphoned off to support birthright citizenship of babies, specifically in
Arizona, California, Texas and New Mexico.The children of illegal alien parents
are another astronomical cost for taxpayers. But then every state today is
exposed to illegal immigrants being transported throughout our country. Once
here the county hospitals are bombarded with new arrivals in the emergency rooms
with obviously no insurance and placing the whole financial measure on
taxpayers. Emergency rooms are inundated with illegal people with sore throats
and carrying flue germs and not such things as appendicitis or serious injuries.
Let me repeat these web-pages at Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
Volume 10 Number 1 Spring 2005 (the report on Illegal Aliens and American
medicine) defines the issue as a monolithic concern for hospitals across the
United States. Read this Health Care report and start spitting blood and bile.
Curiously, several of the provisions in Stephen Sandstrom's immigration bill
seem to be targeted against the LDS Church, despite the claim of church
exemption.At issue in the Sandstrom bill is to be able to prosecute
anyone as a felon who 1) transports an undocumented immigrant over any distance
and for almost any reason and 2) knowingly or otherwise encourages an
undocumented immigrant to live in Utah.Would LDS missionaries be
excluded? And what about Home Teachers and Visiting Teachers? Are they all
exempted from Sandstrom's felony law by church affiliation? Could you be taken
to court for giving an undocumented person a ride, say as a home teaching
companion? Might a smile or a helping hand qualify as encouragement to live in
Utah? Would members of a church congregation be guilty of a felony by
association if they knowingly assist undocumented immigrants among them?The issue of undocumented Hispanic immigration is certainly complex, and
a vigorous debate over solutions is expected. But not drawing the line on
provisions that are so clearly unprincipled and ruthlessly oppressive--church
exemption or not--threatens the human dignity and freedom of us all.
Am I alone in seeing an ity bity problem with the constant clamor for being
subject to kings, presidents, etc. and the thorough going insurrection by these
same people against your president and mine, Barak Obama?
Knowledgable observers generally agree that a workable and beneficial
immigration policy without room for amnesty of any sort is not possible. To
insist otherwise is to effectively close the door on any chance of meaningful
We don't need immigration reform...we need immigration ENFORCEMENT.
Surrounding states are dealing with their illegal immigration problems and
laughing at Utah for continuing to remain essentially a sanctuary state where
illegal immigrants can access driver ID cards, get in-state tuition, benefit
from vast welfare benefits and have their children housed, educated and fed by
Utah taxpayers. This is not compassion, it is immoral. Creating this
environment that persuades more families to risk the rape, human smuggling,
dangers of traversing borders and even death to get to Utah is far from
compassionate, far from humane. It is downright disgusting. The religious
and other communities in Utah that THINK they are offering compassion by
encouraging illegal immigration must understand what they create in risk to
life, property, liberty and the very nature of civilization when they promote
illegal immigration. Unwittingly they HARM the very children of God they
mistakenly believe they are helping. Both the illegal immigrants and the legal
citizens. EVERYONE looses when borders are not protected and carefully managed.
Ajax, I don't think you understand the meaning of the word
"insurrection," nor do you understand that article of faith if you
believe if means people should never express political disagreement with current
leaders. Likewise, your suggestion that supporters of amnesty have cornered the
market of knowledge demonstrates a very narrow-minded approach to the issue.Christine, I have long been an advocate of how the Japanese deal with
illegal immigrants whose children are born in Japan. The children are allowed to
decide whether they want to remain in Japan or leave with their parents. In a
recent case of a couple from the Phillipines, the parents were sad when their
daughter chose to stay in Japan instead of remain with them, but they have
nobody to blame but themselves. Their disregard for Japanese law resulted in the
separation from their daughter. It was not the fault of the Japanese people.
Utah will have to make a decision how it will stand on Illegal immigration. Weak
enforcement policy will bear one kind of fruit and strict policy another. Weak
policy will create a California Illegal Immigration scenario. Strict policy will
create an appearance of intolerance but keep you from being overwhelmed and
having your safety, your quality of life and your economy irreparably damaged.
Utah its your choice and your future. California once stood at the crossroads
with prop.187. We were robbed of our will by Gray Davis and an activist judge
who purposely took four years to make her decision. Arizona stands at their
crossroads now and the question is will the open borders political activists rob
them of their will. You are at your own crossroad and will be called on to make
a choice. California cried out for the country to hear our plight with prop.187
and no other state would listen. We recalled Gray Davis but the door had been
left open and the damage had already been done. Arizona is bravely fighting for
its very life. You will very soon be fighting for yours.
All these elected officials that refuse enforce our laws should be voted out of
office (M. Shurtleff)."We might as well hold back the tide as
do enforcement," (C. Bramble shame on you)."allowing
people to stay after they have broken the law .. is an insult to millions of
people around the world". It is also a BIG insult to the
citizens who's tax dollars pay to educate the children of illegal aliens AND pay
the salaries of the elected officials that refuse to enforce our laws.If the libs doesn't think the illegals should have to obey the law then I
insist on the same treatment. I don't like the speeding laws. I don't like the
concealed carry laws. I don't like the stupid rulings handed down by our corrupt
judges.If we are going to have anarchy I might as well get my share
of the spoils while we are going down.
The Church leaders are flat out wrong on this issue........and will lose a great
deal of credibility when this issue is re-solved and all the illegals go home!
Its just a matter of time....
It is unfortunate that those who favor the invasion of America by illegal
foreign invaders continue to insist upon referring to those opposed to the
invasion as racists. The reality is, America continues to welcome people of
every imaginable racial and ethnic background who have chosen to follow the
well-established "path to citizenship" that currently exists. There is
absolutely no good reason to reward those people who have decided to bypass the
existing, established process with amnesty of any kind.
Children brought here illegally have a chance to make things right between 18
and 18.5 years of age, by returning home and filling out the papers. Most choose
to stay here illegally and become just as illegal as their parents. The venue was closing, people were being asked to leave the building, the
Brown Berets refused, and instead tried to engage the security officer with a
verbal confrontation. The video was up on youtube. Search the Brown
Berets national website for information on how this militant group plans to
overthrow the US government.
Why! The need for Debate, being Illegal is guatemalaagainst the Law.The Soluation is to Deport Them.Deport them right on the edge of
the Mexico, Guatemala Border. Those from other places, a 1 way
ticket back, to where ever they came from.They are Illegal, that is
against American Law, what part of that do people not get.I do not
want to change the law that much regarding kids born in the U.S. from Illegal
parents (usually the mother). However the Parents Need to be Deported and the
kids need to go with them and when they are adults then they can come back. That
or Adoption. Citizenship should not be granted because you have the ability to
have a child.
Reading the comments on the illegal alien debate it is obvious what the citizens
want. I think the elected leaders better pay attention to the wishes of the
majority instead of political minority cries for amnesty. We are , after all, a
@Tom, the sheep shearers were here on Visas. America has had it with
Hawkeye,There are many decisions that must be made for minors by
their parents. Minors, for example, cannot enter into a contract.If
you look at citizenship as a contract between an individual and society, is a
child capable of making such a contract? As a minor, they are probably not old
enough to make such a decision. Likewise voting may be a privilege of
citizenship but we do not allow minors to vote even though they are citizens.Parenthood also brings with it certain responsibilities. Just because
you are being deported doesn't mean you can abandon your children, even though
they have dual citizenship. You might be able to assign permanent guardianship
to a legal relative who is a citizen here, but at no point in the future would
they be allowed to sponsor their family members since the parents who left them
behind are no longer their legal parents.No, give the kids a ride
home with the parents and use the sale of property left behind to pay for the
Yesterday's AP story about the turmoil in Belgium (look for the story on beards)
is a direct result of having a nation with two dominant languages. The southern
half of the country speaks French while the northern half speaks Danish.A similar situation exists in Canada where Quebec wants to secede and
become their own little country.In Israel you have a mix of Arabic
and Hebrew speaking groups.Ukrane, the Balkin Nations, Ireland...
The list goes on. Nations, for the most part, are usually defined by
language. Anytime you try to have a country with two distinct groups of people,
who do not share a common language, you also have divided loyalty, mistrust,
animosity, and attempts to divide and/or conquer. When population density
regionally reaches a point where there is little need for the immigrant to learn
the language of the host nation, youre no longer a melting pot.If
you talk to people in Mexico... if you get them drunk in a bar, theyll say were
taking it back, sorry. Thats not an uncommon sentiment in Mexico, so why cant we
take it seriously here? - Mickey Kaus
I don't see this as a 50-50 split concensus.....Everything I read
here in comments and I hear on the street tells me that the Sandstrom Bill has
the vast support of the clear majority of Utahns....Those who
support Illegal Immigration...get out your wallet, you pay for it......and keep
your compact hands out of my pocket
@C. Darwin: "...elected leaders better pay attention to the wishes of the
majority instead of political minority cries for amnesty."Recent polling reported in the Salt Lake Tribune (Jan. 20, 2011) addresses the
question of the majority will in Utah regarding the treatment of immigrants.
Specifically, Utahns were asked of their support for the Utah Compact, subtitled
"A Declaration of Five Principles to Guide Utah's Immigration
Discussion". Clearly expressed among the Compact principles is the
importance of a humane approach to immigration policy that, where merited, would
in effect allow for a conditional amnesty.The Compact principles are
in contrast to the purely punitive approach taken by the Sandstrom bill.So how did Utahns respond?Forty-nine (49) percent supported
the Utah Compact; thirty-nine (39) percent opposed it.My hope also
is that our elected officials honor the wishes of the majority of Utahns for the
humane and compassionate treatment of all immigrants.
We are always told that to enforce our laws is so inhumane, and yet Thousands of
American Citizens as well as illegal aliens have died because our Government is
to gutless to enforce the law. Tell me what is more inhumane?To not
secure our borders and enforce our laws is like letting the family of 10 across
the street knowing that 1 of them is a serial rapist and another is a serial
murderer. We would not let this evil access to our family and yet our
government allows this evil access to the citizens they swore to protect. This
is Anarchy and it needs to be stopped. Sandstrom and Herrod are
doing a great job and we need to vote anyone that is against their bills out of
Humane and compassionate treatment of all immigrants, does not mean we will stop
enforcing laws, or accept their illegal behavior. Th Utah compact
was written to confuse the populace by including illegal immigration with legal.
Perhaps a more honest poll would ask a direct question: "Do you support
Illegal immigration is such a huge, enormous, super-size problem that, in my
opinion, will never be corrected nor solve. The only option left to Americans
is to practice personal responsibility by not hiring illegal workers and
boycotting those business that hire them.
Sanctimonious exhortations over a mistaken and manipulative concept of obedience
to law in order to justify the unseemly mistreatment of others are woefully out
of focus. Just sayin.
A little advice from a Beatle would go a long ways. "Do me a favor, and
open the door, and let 'em in."Cut the government regulation,
all the quotas and years of waiting, and let 'em in. Here's wishing the federal
government would allow them in legally. If it can be done, screen out criminals
before they come, but let the rest in. Free entrance because we are a free
country.Will they take our jobs because they are willing to work for
less? It has ever been that those who are poor will work for less than those who
have more. We don't blacklist the poor we already have from jobs. To do so would
be to discriminate against the most needy, which doesn't make a lick of sense.
And, while they are here, they also create jobs, buying food from us, buying
clothes from us, and buying our entertainment. Are they a burden on
our social welfare system? So are our own people. How much does Utah expend on
the us? Why say one group is too much a burden while another is not?
Discrimination? Perhaps it be so.-- John Jackson
Candidate Jackson, who is them? the 4.5 billion people in the world worse off
than our neighbors to the south? We just open the doors and let those who want
to come here, come? How will we feed or take care of them? The
business labor economic cycle is very fragile. Too many workers, and our pay
goes down, too many jobs and our pay goes up. Flood the labor market illegally
with to many people, and the wages go way down, and the taxpayer gets stuck with
higher taxes to pay more social services and unemployment benefits. We don't black list our poor, they are legal citizens. We should not punish
them with people who take their jobs. They have families to support also. We have plenty of poor that needs help during this depression. We can't
afford to take in citizens of other countries. Discrimination? No, illegal
behavior that should be punished? yes. In Paul McCartney's song, the
people used the front door and rang the door bell. They arrived the legal way,
not through the back door uninvited.
Secure the borders. Check the papers of all current employees, aka REVERIFY all
employees status to work in the USA. Punish the companies that continue to hire
illegals. Illegals will go home once they are squeezed out of the job market,
and trust me plenty of Americans will fill the job market void. It worked well
in the 50's when we deported millions of them and amazingly our unemployment
problem was solved. It will work today again.
Candidate Jackson,And what do you believe will happen to the
citizens of struggling foreign nations when those who desire a better life
desert their countrymen instead of working to improve circumstances? By
thinking through things a bit more, hopefully you'll realize that starvation,
oppression and other social ills will only increase if our nation decides to
drain others of only their productive citizens (as unproductive citizens will
not have the means to travel to the U.S. in the first place).Screening by criminal background and leaving other countries to deal with a
greater percentage of criminals will ultimately decrease the quality of life for
more people than would possibly be helped by your suggested approach.Sadly, there are people who are so blinded by trying to help the few that they
lose sight of the harm that they cause to the many. Short-sighted approaches,
even those that are well-intentioned, are not what our country and world need.