Under current U.S. immigration policy, the Obama Administration will authorize
an average of 138,000 new foreigners each month to fill American jobs,
regardless of whether the U.S. economy is producing or losing jobs, or whether
U.S. wages are rising or falling. This should be of concern to those LEGAL
citizens and those LEGAL immigrants who are unemployed! Recently the
unemployment rate was 14% and that is calculated only by those who are LOOKING
FOR WORK, not those who are unable to find a job! We need to find equity in
wages for our legal citizens and those who are here illegally, you should come
across the border LEGALLY! There are many immigrants still waiting to become
legal and it's taking them several years. Why should you receive special
treatment by breaking the law? Just needing a job....
If Utah appears as though they have become soft on Illegal Immigration the
message will quickly spread to newly arriving Illegal Immigrants and those
already residing Illegally in other states. It is evident that talk is being
frequently heard in Arizona that many Illegal Immigrants have decided to move to
Utah to escape the new Arizona law. There would be little to stop tens of
thousands of Illegal Immigrants looking for greener pastures from making Utah
their choice destination for residence. The guarantee for Utah is if you are
weak on Illegal Immigration you will likely be a recipient of mass Illegal
Immigration like you have never seen. Choose wisely...It will change your state
and it will change your future and not necessarily for the good.
When they call themselves undocumented immigrant, they are illegal aliens. I suppose under the illegals logic, I could break into a business and if
I'm caught, I could claim to be an unhired employee....C'mon that
logic might work in the third world country they come from, but, it doesn't work
here. We actually have laws and follow them. Which is one reason why this is a
great place to live (until Obama became president).
Maybe these "poor indigent undocumented mothers" (non-liberal
translation: illegal criminals who hopped the border to get freebies from the
American taxpayer) should have thought twice about coming to a country and
popping out kids that they can't afford. Maybe, since they love
mexico so much and they supposedly are so hard working, they should stay in
mexico and work to make it a good place to live. Maybe we should
make our government stop giving out every free entitlement in the book to
illegals who expect to get them, and then they will deport themselves.
Prenatal care for indigent undocumented mothers is just a small part of a much,
much bigger problem.
Why is it that we so avidly support military ventures abroad of dubious worth
and so costly in blood and national treasure yet react so indignantly on hearing
of free prenatal care locally for indigent undocumented mothers?
"Tom" I'm sorry, but the illegals I know don't see things the way you
do. They ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, will not show up to court! If they are
caught, or "found out" about something they simply switch identities!
Or return to Mexico for awhile. (I assume you've heard about all the
"ID" mills who have been busted in the news)They switch identities
fairly regularly depending on what's needed. The ones who live near me
sometimes have 3-4 families to a home although there is still only ONE property
tax bill being pd. That would be o.k. if just A FEW families were doing it, but
there is a lot of it happening on the west side.Definitely, the
adult children who can never attain citizenship status are being
"victimized", but it is their PARENTS who have victimized them, not
Americans!We tried using amnesty back in 1986 and that obviously didn't
work. The longer we put off dealing with the problem (along with gathering ALL
the facts)the harder the problem will be to solve.Using amnesty again (in
any form) just "kicks the problem" down the road for the next
Thanks "Fitness Freak" I appreciate your recognition that these people
on the most part are good hardworking people. I still do not see how it is just
to have 3 million American citizen who when they are young and fall in love
with 3 million individuals who were brought here as children and do not have the
proper documentation, and they marry why we can not provide some means of
normalizing their status. When ever i have a problem with the law, be it a
traffic ticket or what ever, I always try to go before the judge and seek mercy
and see if I can get the fine lowered or at least do something so the points do
not go on my insurance. What would be so wrong with showing some kind of mercy
to these individuals.
"Tom" - I live and work amongst MANY illegal aliens so I know what
they do and don't do! First and foremost: MOST of them are very hardworking
people. I see them standing in the parking lot of the local home improvement
store (especially in this weather)waiting for someone to come along and give
them some work. My heart goes out to them!BUT - I think of the other
5 billion or so people around the world who DIDN'T SNEAK across the desert to
get here. Should all of those folks be allowed to come? Where does it stop?
What good are laws that aren't enforced? Should we re-write our laws to be
merely "suggestions", and have little to no consequences involved?The schools around me are WAY OVERBURDENED in the first place, and when we
take all the illegal children who's parents pay little or no taxes, how can we
possibly keep it up?I think the illegal aliens that have such a good work
ethic should go home and work to make THEIR homeland a better place. We simply
can't afford to care for the worlds nomadic populations!
raybies, Your post appears to imply that a human soul cannot also exist and
flourish abroad. I do not believe this is true, as I know many human souls
abroad who are doing just fine. In fact, I would argue that people with the
desire for a better life can bring about more good in struggling countries than
they can in the U.S.On that note, would you care to explain how
deportation harms the human soul in ways that other legal penalties that you
likely support (incarceration, etc.) do not?
We decide what is legal. We decide how our laws may be applied compassionately.
We decide which laws are enforceable and by whom, and what gets paid for, and
who pays. We have the means and ability to be generous and to choose positions
that are sympathetic to families of those immigrant workers who come here and
plant deep roots of families, values, and hard work. That some are so strident
based upon the technicalities of the law is a sad reflection of placing an idea
above a human soul.
We don't break up families, illegal actions do. There are plenty of
American families each year that are broken up because of illegal actions. If all are here illegally, all leave. That is not breaking up a family.
Americans make mistakes all the time, and we have to pay for our
@ Tom : confronted with the facts and truth of the matter you can only resort
to sarcasim in responce.. Too bad there is no other reply to the facts of the
It is comforting to know that we have so many good law abiding citizens in this
country who have every thing figured out at the age of 18 and never make a
mistake. It gives me renewed hope in the future of our country. Then of course
it is worth breaking up 3 million families because of a civil offense.
That's not entirely true Tom. A person brought here as a child, has 180 days
from his 18th birthday to return home and make things right. If they
don't, they become in violation of the law just like their parents. If they stay
until 19, then they are accessed the 10 year penalty. There are ways
for everyone to come here legally.Being here illegally can be a
civil or criminal offense. The criminal part is usually dropped, since the civil
part is deportation. Our compassionate law prefers the civil course, as fining a
person, then deporting, takes away resources that may be needed to start over in
their home country. There are billions of good people in this world,
most are willing to follow our laws. We should reward them.
One example of where the law is broken is when some one is brought here as a
child and grows up and marries a U.S. citizen. There are approximately 3 million
mixed unions in this country. The only option is for the undocumented individual
to return home to straiten out their paper work, then they are bared from
re-entry for 10 years. Being in this country undocumented is a civil offense.
There is no mercy in immigration law. The American legal system is built on the
premises of balancing justice and mercy, why should immigration law be excluded.
Also I know there are many unemployed computer programs clamoring to go to
central Utah and live out in the middle of no where and shear sheep. These are
good people. We can hide our head in the sand and say that nothing needs to be
fixed but that is taking a very narrow, mean spirited stance. That seems to be
what makes people feel good about themselves now a days, thinking they are
better than other people.
Tom, Are you suggesting that if someone is faithful to their religion, then they
should be exempt from the consequences of breaking the law? You should try
explaining that the next time you get a speeding ticket and see what the officer
has to say.Deportation is not a punishment for being a bad person.
It is a punishment for violating US immigration laws. Some "good
people" do it. Some "bad people" do it.What worries
me the most is what will happen to foreign countries if the US drains them of
their "good citizens" that illegally enter the US. Are you under the
impression that poverty, oppression, hunger and suffering abroad will decrease
if foreign countries suddenly receive an influx of deported "bad
people?" I would contend that the amount of suffering in the world will be
greater when there are fewer people abroad who want to improve their
These politically correct terms like "lack of documentation" or
"undocumented workers" is nothing more than a pathetic attempt by the
liberal media to legitimize criminal activity. What are we going to hear next,
a drug dealer is an "undocumented pharmacist"? Is a thief an
"undocumented collector"? The overwhelming majority of
Americans (AND Utahns) support the enforcement of our federal laws. We WILL NOT
accept amnesty in any form, no matter what the liberals call it, and no matter
how many times they try and shove it down our throats. There is
nothing wrong with the laws we have on the books, the problem is that the laws
are simply not enforced. These immigration laws are an inconvenience for those
who want open borders, and who want to turn America into mexico. Similiar to
drug laws being an inconvenience to drug dealers. The laws are not the problem,
it's the lack of political will for these weak politicians to do their jobs and
protect this country from the invasion that is going on.
If we bring compassion into the discussion, then the compassion shown to
Americans and the rest of the world by the lawbreakers needs to be included.
Tom, how can a person be an Elder's quorum president or a member of a Bishopric
if he is in violation of our national laws? Has the Church caneled the 12th
Article of Faith?You say that "the laws truly are broken."
I think you are mistaken. I think you meant to say "our laws are being
broken..." by illegal immigrants.Our immirgation laws are
designed to manage the number of people who are allowed into this country. And,
if the laws are executed regularely our population would stablize and our
unemployment would remain in the normal range. As it is, we are headed for
overpopulation on unsustainable levels and our unemployment will remain at
unprecedented high levels. Please view "Immigration Gumballs" on
YouTube for more well laid out facts about immigration.
@ouisc"I'd like to see states start to sue the feds for sheer
negligence."I'd like to see states start suing the feds for
costs incurred incident to illegals in thier states. Obama and his ilk insist
that immigration is the sole responsibility of the federal government and that
states have no say whatever in handling them. Yet the fed does nothing about
the billions in costs incurred by states when illegals enter their states
running up costs such as law enforcement, education, and unemployment. There's
something drastically wrong with this picture.
Since the feds have recently sued states for trying to improve their own growing
illegal immigration problem, I'd like to see states start to sue the feds for
There seems to be a bit of bias with the inclusion of this meaningless
statistic: "Research indicates that on-the-job death rates are
disproportionately high for Latino workers. In 2008, Mexican-born workers
accounted for 42 percent of foreign-born-worker deaths." Without
including information on what percentage of foreign-born workers are
Mexican-born it doesn't tell you anything. If half are Mexican-born then the
death rates are disproportionately low. It appears to be an attempt to generate
sympathy towards them without giving any real information.
I fall on the side of compassion for those who come here seeking a better life
through hard work, creativity and innovation. I am grateful for the many
immigrants in this country and my heart goes out to them in their plight to find
acceptance against people who want to lump them all together with drug-dealers,
anarchists, criminals, vandals and terrorists. I am ashamed of my fellow
countrymen who believe that there're only a fixed number of benefits, jobs,
money, and blessings to be had in this country. By sensibly working together and
resisting the urge to villify one another, we can find solutions in which all
human souls may find peace, liberty, community and happiness.May we
keep families together. May we embrace the children of every culture and find
ways to help them reach their dreams--so that our own dreams are all the more
possible. I hold to the optimistic Spirit of my pioneer
ancestors--those that made our country great. We are not done, but are still
building a bright and strong future together.
Tom, your not the only person who knows undocumented people. Many of us have met
them in one capacity or another. They are not all sunshine and roses. They all had a choice to make, and they chose to break the law. You can't call
that an honest choice by any twist of the word. They don't have a way to get
legal while they are here, but they do have a way to get legal if they go home
and come back the right way. I would suggest sympathy and caring for
the American people that have paid billions over the years and had their wages
depressed. I would give compassion to those hurt by lawless acts of those who
came here without permission, and to those denied government services due to
budget restrictions. I am tired of hearing one side of the story. I
am tired of the resentment and distrust cast upon my Hispanic relatives caused
by those here illegally and those who support them.
When Obama took the oath of office for the President of the United States, he
swore to uphold the constitution and execute the laws of the land. He has
failed to execute the laws of the land with his stance on illegal immigration.
He should be pressing his AG to go after illegals and have them deported. He
has not done that. He should be enforcing E-verify so that illegals will not be
taking jobs that they are not entitled to. He has not done that. Obama needs
to face impeachment.
Hopefully in the future we will be able to have a civil conversation about this
issue. It is a bit of a leap to say that good hard working people who love their
families and do not get in trouble with the law accept that they do not have the
appropriate documentation are equal to murders and bank robbers and rapist. The
undocumented individuals that I know are wonderful people they serve as Elders
Quorum Presidents and Bishops Councilors. I am sure there are bad people among
that population just like there are bad people among the general population, but
I would guess I have more first hand acquaintances with the undocumented
population than those who are calling them all kinds of names. The laws truly
are broken. These people have been encouraged to come here by our economic
choices and then there is not way to get legal. There is no line to get into
for most of these people. It is sad to see people who are so hard hearted and
unwilling to look at real solutions to an unfortunate situation.
They are not "undocumented immigrants." In most cases they are
"false documented immigrants.
John C. C. said, "we need to change the law to allow for much greater visa
quotas of both permanent and temporary workers."Why would we
want to do that while our unemployment rate is hovering between 9-10%?
We need to make sure our legislators hear our voices. We do not want these
Immigration bills watered down!
What is heating up is the need to actually enforce our immigration laws.
Our immigration system is not broken, just not enforced. We need to do several
things immediately.1. Make illegal immigration a felony.2. Mandate
E-Verify.3. Have the National Guard conduct workplace audits.4. Get
rid of any politicians who are more concerned with the needs if illegal aliens
than the needs of the citizens they pledged to serve (for example Luz Robles -
who has the gall to fly an American Flag on her website).
Amazing.....yet another in a long line of Immigration articles by the DNEWS
pandering to illegals.......I wouldn't be surprised if all future articles are
printed in spanish!Keep up the good work
The elected ones will continue to get this one wrong.Why? Union
influence, biz looking for cheap labor and identity politics.Obama's
administration is playing an interesting balancing act. They've ended worksite
raids and limited deportations to felons only.Their message: Unlawful
presence in general is OK.The GWB message was that they were too busy to
pick them all up.At the end of the day, these are merely signs of the lack
of political will. The best they hope to do now is release the valve on the
pressure cooker with amnesty.America isn't going to like that!
Having great respect for the law, we need to change the law to allow for much
greater visa quotas of both permanent and temporary workers. Artificial
barriers to the free flow of labor is harmful to both sides.Amnesty
should follow such a change, as an apology to those we treated as unwelcome.
Until then, we at least should treat those who here without documentation with
the respect that every human deserves, even those who violate rules, and
especially those who are actively trying to contribute to our society.
Reading the quotes from the experts, it's easy to tell what side of the fence
they sit on. Part (not all) of Arizona's SB1070 was put on hold, not due to
constitutional issues, or just on Federal/States rights, but more on
implications with neighboring countries. It's time we started
bringing the average American into the discussion, how it has hurt them, and the
cost to them. They need our compassion also. Any attempt at a guest worker
program would be a huge insult to the working people of this state. Especially
the 100,000 people out of work. I would suggest the Hispanic caucus start
showing compassion for all Americans.
There is another side to the coin, my son-in-law keeps getting hired by
contractors that try not to pay him. He is legal American, licenced Hipanic.
It infuriates him that he does quality work and the contractors try to stiff
him. I tell him to just put a lean on the homes.
It seems that the Deseret News and the SL Tribune have joined forces with
propaganda (mixing facts and untruths) and hyperbole trying to convince the
citizens that uncontrolled immigration from Mexico and Latin America is
unstoppable and a benefit to the United States. The DN reports,
"The Utah Minutemen were going red in the face." I was there and this
is totally false hyperbole, and an indication that this article should be on the
Opinion Page. As for the LDS Church's position on illegal
immigration, they continue to state that they are, "neutral," probably
because to support illegal immigration, they would be in conflict with the 12th
Article of faith. In reading this one would assume that living in
the United States is an entitlement, that the U.S. should provide for everyone
in Mexico and Latin America. I wonder if this entitlement attitude applies to
everyone on the planet? Lots of opinion and bias reporting in this
The bottom-line question is: Do we want to encourage people to violate the law
by allowing them to keep the benefits that they broke the law to obtain? I
believe that just as the thief should not be allowed to keep stolen property and
the speeder should be stopped and lose the time-savings accrued by speeding, the
illegal immigrant should not be allowed to remain in a place that they broke the
law to enter.Trespassing is often only a misdemeanor, but that
doesn't mean that the offender is allowed to remain on the trespassed property
after paying a small fine.
Consider the empty rhetoric that could be avoided in recognizing what we all
should know by now, namely that 1) being in our country without documentation is
not necessarily a felony, 2) undocumented Hispanic immigrants are not the
cause of the downturn in our economy nor of high unemployment 3) undocumented
Hispanic immigrants pay taxes, and 4) undocumented Hispanic immigrants receive
decidedly less rather than more of the benefits and advantages available to the
rest of us.Less well defined is the degree to which the undeniably
substantial contribution of undocumented Hispanic labor to our economy balances
the significant additional expense of health care and welfare services. Who
knows for sure? But regardless, I as a Mormon highly recommend the Catholic
heritage of natural law in meeting what I understand to be our obligation to the
less fortunate.Education for the undocumented is a notable exception
in the equation of costs and benefits. Rather than another expense to bemoan,
education is probably the only real solution to the Hispanic immigrant dilemma
of slummers and gangbangers.Certainly the call for a forceful,
unconditional expulsion of all undocumented Hispanic immigrants is a recipe for
disaster and is itself an uneducated response.
AJAXThere are a whole bunch of families with relatives at point of
the mountain who thought the law didn't apply to them. I guess the law was
"manipulated to rationalize a vindictive agenda" in their cases and
they are now the victims of our gross "human abuse" and their
incarceration is to our "lasting discredit". The average
illegal immigrant comes to Utah by breaking the law and crossing the border
illegally, oftentimes they carry a backpack full of drugs to help supply the
Salt Lake hub of black tar heroin distribution. After that they steal an ID
(usually from a minor) so they can go on and steal a job from an American
family. They then get health care they don't pay for and send their kids to
schools we pay for. They then systematically loot the treasuries of the state
and federal governments. Maybe in your infinite compassion you might
find a little for those who are the real victims, the people of the United
States. You and others who preach similar nonsense need to get a grip on the
real issues and discover the real victims.
Measures such as fences, more laws and stricter law enforcement are in effect
more posturing than substantial in stemming the rising tide of racial and
cultural diversity. Reactionary rumor-fueled resentment, moreover is
self-destructive. The browning of north america is the inevitable outcome of an
ongoing global leveling of people.The wiser course for everyone,
citizen and noncitizen alike, in achieving a fair and workable national
immigration policy is mutual respect and peaceful accommodation. Difficult to
understand but nonetheless true is that the well-being of others and ourselves
is not exclusive but always intertwined.
Most of the people who claim our laws are broke, are the ones breaking them.
I would think that with the recent attention on the harmful consequences of
bullying we would be more cautious of those in our society and our state
legislature who deceitfully misconstrue and manipulate the law to rationalize
vindictive agendas needlessly harmful to others.Lacking
documentation in and of itself hardly qualifies as reasonable justification for
the harsh, vindictive treatment of "illegals" advocated by those who
in their fervor mistake the law for a club.To undertake legislation
affecting thousands of families in the facile and cavalier fashion of the
Sandstrom crowd would be a huge mistake, costly in the extreme and leading to a
level of human abuse to our lasting discredit.
This just makes my blood boil. The arrogance of these illegal aliens.First they make a total mockery of our laws by breaking into our country, then
they have the gall to ask; "Who would Jesus deport?" as if the law
breakers are in the right. They are not!The first law of heaven is
obedience.While I cannot speak for Jesus; I would not be surprised
to learn that Jesus would deport them all. The law of justice must be satisfied
and these people show not sign of repentance or remorse.Enforcement
first! Zero tolerance!
We do not need to make any deals with illegal alien criminals. Luz Robles, Tony
Yapass, the signers of the Utah CON PACT, and their ilk haven't been able to
accept the fact that the people of Utah aren't buying what they are selling and
we are never going to buy it. NO amnesty, NO guest worker programs, NO deals,
come here legally through the front door and wait your turn or get out of the
state and stay out. We are all fed up with illegals and the crime and other
problems they bring, they have no right to be here and we have every right to
demand that politicians and law enforcements officers do their job and remove
Guest Workers #2 - from the article:Immigration and Customs Enforcement
conducted an audit of employees at Gebbers Farms, an apple producer in Brewster,
Washington. ICE found evidence that more than 500 of its workers, mostly
immigrants from Mexico, were in the country illegally. ICE then advised Gebbers
Farms of Social Security and immigration numbers that did not check out with
federal databases. The workers were then fired.John Morton, the
head of the immigration agency, said the goal of the audits is to create "a
culture of compliance" among employers, so that verifying new hires would
be as routine as paying taxes. ICE leaves it up to employers to fire workers
whose documents cannot be validated. But an employer who fails to do so risks
prosecution. After completing a federally mandated local labor
search, Gebbers Farms applied to the federal guest worker program to import
about 1,200 legal temporary workers most from Mexico. The guest workers, who
can stay for up to six months, also included about 300 from Jamaica.Gebbers Farms easily obtained the legal Seasonal Agricultural workers they
neededand the price of apples did not rise, as a result of following the rules.
Guest Workers #1 Creating a Utah Guest worker program violates federal
law. It is also NOT needed, as there is already a way for workers to come to the
U.S. legallythe existing Guest Worker program with categories for different work
types:- Permanent Labor Certification: A certification issued by the
Department of Labor (DOL) allows an employer to hire a foreign worker to work
permanently in the United States.- H-2A Temporary Labor
Certification (Seasonal Agricultural): Program for agricultural employers who
anticipate a shortage of domestic workers to bring nonimmigrant foreign workers
to the U.S. to perform agricultural labor or services of a temporary or seasonal
nature. - H-2B Temporary Labor Certification (Non-agricultural):
Program permits employers to hire foreign workers to come temporarily to the
U.S. and perform temporary nonagricultural services or labor on a one-time,
seasonal, peakload or intermittent basis.For those that say the
process/program is broken, an article published in the NY Times, 09 July 2010,
shows otherwise. Continued...
If you continue to encourage it, more will come. If you do things that
discourage it, fewer will come. That is not too complex to figure out.You can decrease the impact on our neighborhoods, save costs in social
services and schools, and be more compassionate to both illegals and our
citizens merely by enforcing laws that were intended to be enforced.By doing this you will also be defusing the decention that exists.
Why do we keep hearing the mantra: our immigration laws are broken? Nothing
could ve further from the truth. The simple fact is our immgration laws are
just not enforced. But most important, they are not enforced by the federal
government by design. Having served in law enforcement for over 32 years, I am
appalled; this is not just incompentence on the part of the federal government,
but burders on corruption by failing to protect those they have sworn to do so;
legal US Citizens.
"You can't reward illegal behavior with benefits," said Ronald
Mortensen, a member of the Utah Coalition on Illegal Immigration. "You do
that, you encourage corruption."Not much else left to say.
The tail is wagging the dog. A few pro-illegal groups are waging war against
the majority of American citizens. Clearly, a vast majority prefer deportation
and no benefits to illegals. It is a matter of patriotism and security.
However, the media and minority political groups continue to undermine the
foundations of America. Let our elected politicians represent the will of the
people, not the will of invading illegal aliens.