"Homosexuals don't try to impose an athiest lifestyle on you, so why do you
try to impose a heterosexual life on them?" They don't? That's
exactly what they're trying to do. The gay agenda is trying to force society to
accept their lifestyle and values through legislation and judicial edict.As a society we recognize that adultery is not good moral behavior. We
cannot stop people from doing it, but we don't condone or support it legally.
We know that adultery is not good for our society. It is destructive to the
family unit. Those who feel homosexual behavior is immoral and
destructive are being forced to accept laws that condone and support it. To me
it's like giving a tax exemption for the support of a mistress. That would show
support and approval for adultery. We don't do that because we know it would
encourage adultery and degrade marriage.Is it in the best interest
of our society to promote homosexuality? Many of us say it is not, but our
values are being ignored and put down more and more every day.
Ms. W:Are you kidding? Do you really believe that you chose your own
sexual orientation? Or that it was gifted to you in adolescence, perhaps,
because you were living a better moral life than the neighbor kid who turned out
to be gay? - This is the kind of simple intropsection I meant in my original
It is easy to find outrage in the actions, choices or lifestyles of others if
your goal is to force them to live the way you think they should. Homosexuals don't try to impose an athiest lifestyle on you, so why do you try
to impose a heterosexual life on them?
Thank you Star Parker for having the guts to stand-up for what is right even
though its not the popular thing to say. Remember the old saying whats popular
is not always right, and whats right is not always popular.
To "Pagan | 3:58 p.m." just because the laws of men allow sinful
behavior that does not mean it is correct.Since when is adultery
acceptable? Even when Jesus gets the people to spare the life of the
adulteress, he tell her to stop sinning.Since you are not a person
of faith, you don't understand or can't understand that what the world does is
not what God would have us do.To "Blue | 4:21 p.m." what
do I condone that is against God's laws. You claim to know me and Gods laws, so
please tell me, how do I "already do or condone _tons_ of behaviors that
are 'contrary to God's laws' "?
EDM:"I don't know whether to laugh or cry for those who lack the simple
introspection that informs us that no one chooses a sexual orientation.And Ms. Parker's opinion only illustrates that if anything can skew a moral
compass, it is religion. Bigotry hardly exists except in the name of God.
" I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the simple
introspection that informs us gays are not born that way. There is zero
concrete evidence to back up the philosophy that homosexuality is innate.
Everything I have seen has been inconclusive. The fact is,
everyone has choices. Including gays. I don't believe homosexuality is wrong
because my religion tells me its wrong, as someone on this forum pointed out.
It is instinctively understood that its wrong. No man made philosophy is going
to change that.
Re: "The scariest people on Earth are those angrily demanding that we
strictly adhere to 'God's morality' . . . ."The writer seems to
be the angry one.His disgusted rant is much scarier than sincere
Christian profession of submission to the will of a Loving God.Real
Christians are committed to loving and serving all God's children, even if they
lack the inclination or strength of character to abide God's law.Refusal of shrill demands to bend His will to the whim of libertines or the PC
left is neither hateful nor scary, except to those making those foolish demands.
I remember when I was younger the term "Christian" had connotations of
love, compassion and good. Now all I feel when I hear Christian is hate, fear,
ignorance and lies. If I were a Christian, I would be much more concerned with
cleaning up my own nest, than poking my nose around others nests, where is
doesn't belong. I truly do not remember that last time that I witnessed a real
Christian act of kindness. I have witnessed thousands of Christian acts of
hate, but no kindness. I see people like Ms. Parker rant in the name of
Christianity all of the time, this is not news this is venom. Christian venom.
Whether Ms Parker is right or wrong she has the unpleasant duty of making the
latest line in the sand, others in the past being bibilical justification of
slavery, Jim Crow laws, ability of racial minorities to vote, INTERRACIAL
MARRIAGE, etc. She has to explain why treatment of homosexuals is in some way
different from these earlier travesties.
Many great comments here that have said it all. However, just to add my 2 cents:
Both the American Psychological Association and the American
Psychiatric Association state strongly that homosexuality is not a choice but a
genetic condition and that homosexuals cannot change their fundamental
attractions. Common sense tells us no one would choose to be gay in this
homophobic world. Further, research shows that efforts to change a person's
sexual orientation may be harmful to the person, leading to depression and
suicidal tendencies. Gay people, just as the rest of the population,
come in many moral stripes. Many keep their partners for life, raise children,
and go regularly to those progressive churches who welcome them into the fold.
And studies show those in the military do their jobs no differently than
heterosexuals.With all of this in mind...how many fundamentalist
families have agonized over their gay children, disowning them or attempting to
change them, causing harm, alienation and grief for all concerned? Is this not
RS1701: "...there are those that are so prideful that they think that the
Prophets are 'out of touch' and that Gays should be allowed to marry, contrary
to God's laws."Sorry, that argument has zero merit. You already do or condone _tons_ of behaviors that are "contrary to God's
laws," and it's a darned-good thing for all of us that you ignore
"God's laws," frequently and repeatedly.Come on - we've
been through this before, right? Do we really need to list, ad
nauseam, all the things that the Bible unambiguously states are "contrary
to God's laws," but which for the sake of a just and sane society we
rightly accept and/or ignore.It's not "pride," it's simply
a matter of living in the real world as a rational human being in possession of
a properly functioning moral compass.Ms. Parker's original thesis,
that homosexuality is wrong because her religion tells her that it is wrong, is
irrational and indefensible. The more you press the excuse of
"it's contrary to God's laws" for your bigotry the more you reveal the
Bible itself to be morally bankrupt.
Is there any statistic more meaningless than Americans' self-reported
assessments of how "moral" they think their current society is? Yet
ask them about acts of "immorality" that they've personally witnessed
or been affected by and you will get a very, very brief list if you get one at
all. And the lists will generally includes items like "that boy I saw at
the mall with the pierced lip and blue hair," or "that girl in the
park with the low cut shirt". Oh wait, I thought of a more
useless stat: any one related to a question asking an American to compare how
"moral" he considers his present society in relation to how
"moral" society was in the past. Always, always, always will the past
be rated as more "moral", forever and ever, amen. This is why the
study of history is every bit as important as the study of math. Gives us the
much need perspective so as to not see apocalypse in every teenage prenancy
(which, incidently, have decreaed in the past 50 years).
Christians who profess the moral beliefs of the author are indeed a minority.American Christian morality is NOT at odds with the "morality"
of the Bible. Christ made it very clear that the main tenants of the gospel
were to love others as you would have them love you and to love God with all
your heart. The Ten Commandments were the basis of all moral doctrine prior to
Christ. It is disingenuous to claim therefore, that the Bible does not condemn
slavery or rape or any other act of unkindness. If these are not loving acts,
they are condemned by default.In as much as parts of the Bible
contradict Christs principal teachings, we can safely conclude that those parts
either should not have been included in the Bible, that they were translated
incorrectly, or that they applied to an ancient culture that we no longer
'The sin is the homosexual relationship, and sex outside of wedlock.' -
Redshirt1701 | 2:49 p.m. Annnd yet, 5 states allow gay marriage. So, that 'sinful' gay relationship, it's sex is actually WITHIN a
marriage. About sin... 'I must agree that PRIDE is the
greatest flaw in our nation's character. (sic) There are many who are proud that
they are not homosexual...' - LDS | 1:58 p.m. So, it is 'sinful' to
have pride...but it is NOT sinful to be proud you are not gay. When
you realize that many are prideful, not just those who are gay, you realize that
ALL should be held to the same standard. Not just homosexuals. Let's look at the 'traditional' example of marriage.Tiger
WoodsDavid LettermenJohn Ensign - Still Senator of NevadaMark
Sanford - Still Gov. of SC.John EdwardsPhilip GiordanoRobert
PackwoodMark FoleyLarry CraigJim GibbonsKevin Garn
All adulterer's, and yet, follow the 'traditional' example of marriage
between one man, and one woman. If you want to defend morality, make
yourself moral before you claim others are not. Work to make divorce
illegal. Then, come back to me.
To "LDS | 1:58 p.m." you forget that there are those that are so
prideful that they think that the Prophets are "out of touch" and that
Gays should be allowed to marry, contrary to God's laws.To be
attracted to a person of the same gender is not a sin. The sin is the
homosexual relationship, and sex outside of wedlock.
'There is much information about this available. Check narth etc.' -
firstamendment | 12:16 a.m. I do enjoy checking Narth.
The National Association for Research & Threapy of Homosexuals. Essentially,
a group that tries to support that homosexuality can be 'cured.' As
if it was a disease. Let's look at Narth's boardmembers.... As one of their board members, George Rekers, was found to be in the company
of a male escort. An escort found on a website in April, 2010. 'A
Heaven-Sent Rent Boy' - By FRANK RICH NY Times - 05/15/10 Line:'61-year-old Rekers was caught by Miami New Times last month in the company of
a 20-year-old male escort at Miami International Airport.' Narth is
like Exodus International, and yet, Exodus' research only showed a 0.4% change
to change orientation. I wouldn't go to Vegas with those odds. Rekers has since resigned from Narth.
I must agree that PRIDE is the greatest flaw in our nation's character. I agree
with Redshirt1701 to a large degree.There are many who are proud
that they are not homosexual and will not accept those that are. They may find
members of their family among the "sinners".Let's not be
casting stones. But rather be building bridges of acceptance, love and
This is just more pointless drivel that is used to keep the illusion of a two
party system alive and our minds off issues that actually matter. My
opinion on this is that anyone who is willing and physically able should serve
the constituion by joining to military. You can serve the constitution or you
can serve the president. I wouldn't serve tyrants like obama and bush who lead
us into pointless wars and don't stand for the constitution at all/
'New research has shown that...' - firstamendment | 12:16 a.m. How
unfortunate then that this research dosen't have an: 1) Author
2) Date 3) Study That we can all find. Just the
claim that it does. 'If the rate of success is defined as the
percentage of clients with a HOMOsexual orientation who became HETROsexual, then
this survey found a less than 0.4% success rate.' - Religious Tolerance
website The Exodus International study was done in 1978. The year I was
born. It had a 0.4% 'success' rate. The other 99.6%, had no change.
'AMA meeting: "Don't ask, don't tell" said to hurt patient care;
repeal urged' - By Kevin B. O'Reilly - 11/23/09 'The House of
Delegates also said a lack of marriage rights contributes to health care
disparities that affect gay families.' - The American Medical
JW: "The Deseret News ought not to accept anonymous comments."I disagree. The focus needs to be on the messages, not the messengers.
Ideas transcend the people who express them, and should stand or
fall on their intrinsic merits, not someone's name.
Homosexual behavior publicly condoned but morally unacceptable - Title
From my point of view, I'm feeling increasingly like a minority in our country.
Not because I'm black, but because I am a Christian. - Article These
two lines are very telling. 1) That 'minorities', like self admited
black people, cannot possibly make 'moral' choices. 2) That your
morality somehow makes you the 'majority' and therefore 'right' in many
regards. The color of your skin does not indicate what you
believe. Only as much as the claim that homosexuals cannot be
'moral.' Should a gay person be able to go to church? Should they be
able to follow doctorine? Should they be able to serve our
country? The answer is 'yes.' And yet, when some make
these attempts, they are labled as 'immorral' regardless of any actions taken or
not taken. Redshirt claims Pride is the downfall of morality.
Trying perhaps to tie this into the anual Gay Pride' parade downtown. Please review the 'days of 24' parade for other examples of pride. The military is not a christian branch. It is made up of many faiths and
peoples. Even those you may not agree with.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry for those who lack the simple introspection
that informs us that no one chooses a sexual orientation.And Ms.
Parker's opinion only illustrates that if anything can skew a moral compass, it
is religion. Bigotry hardly exists except in the name of God.
To "Sal | 7:41 a.m." actually, the decay of the US can be summed up
with one word. Pride.Should there be "jobs that Americans
won't do"?What about the arrogancy of the elites in politics
and the media?Pride has even trickled down to the poor. Remember
the footage after Katrina with the people standing around wanting "their
check"?We are quickly approaching the point in the pride cycle
where catastrophy is immenent.
Sal: "Our nation will continue see an increase in natural disasters as we
abandon God's standards."You're saying that natural disasters
are a punishment from God? What you are really saying is that God
kills terrified, desperate children in floods, earthquakes and fires because
someone opened a Victoria's Secret in the local mall.You are saying
that God _could_ prevent natural disasters, but either chooses not to, or
can't.Think carefully about that before you take it farther.procuradorfiscal: "But (morality) does not countenance the sliding
scale. It does not reinvent or redefine moral values to satisfy political
expedience or to curry favor with one or another voting constituency."Wrong, it absolutely does. Don't be so ignorant of history! We are hugely fortunate that religious morality _does_ undergo change.
Otherwise, we'd still be killing people for working on Sundays, not letting
people with birth defects into church and burning people at the stake for
heresy.The scariest people on Earth are those angrily demanding that
we strictly adhere to "God's morality" and shaking their fists at the
"immoral" 21st century.They fly airplanes into buildings,
Star Parker put her name on her beliefs and while I totally disagree with her, I
respect her for not hiding behind an anonymous name.So far there are
about eight comments on this article, and seven of the eight, and perhaps all
eight, have not been willing to sign their own names. The comments have been
about equal on the pro and con side, but none are willing to put their name on
their comment.The Deseret News ought not to accept anonymous
comments. Joe Watts
"Yet, at the same time that Americans are increasingly at ease with
homosexual behavior, the public says that the nation is not in good moral
shape."Wonder why?Our banking system almost
collapsed our economy in order to make huge profits and bonuses. Many are
morally bankrupt.Our politicians vote whatever way will increase
their campaign donations. Many are are morally bankrupt.Our
corporations will lie, cheat, steal and kill to increase their bottom line.
Many are morally bankrupt.And you are worried about a gay guy in the
How sad that Ms. Star, who identifies herself as a Christian, should think that
"better understanding about other people and cultures/more diversity/less
racism" is our ultimate undoing. Sensible people know that
being gay or straight is not a choice, and neither is right or wrong. It just
is. It's like eye-color or handedness, and just as innocuous.Perhaps Ms. Star would better represent her faith if she were more concerned
with caring for the poor and the sick, and less about openly gay soldiers being
allowed to die for our country.
Morality is, of course, the elephant in the room blithely ignored by this
administration.Christian morality includes tolerance of others'
failures, even acceptance of those benighted by ignorance, heretical teachings,
even corrupt self interest.But it does not countenance the sliding
scale. It does not reinvent or redefine moral values to satisfy political
expedience or to curry favor with one or another voting constituency.That was the beauty and strength of DADT. It permitted service by those whose
strong suite was service and love of country, without justifying or exalting
moral weakness.DADT was all good LGBT soldiers asked. But it was
never enough for selfish, officious, unpatriotic LGBT activists.Their goal was never limited to equality, but to use the law to dictate moral
redefinition.This administration is courting disaster by its
implementation of this ill-considered and ill-advised DADT repeal.If
it requires, not merely tolerance and acceptance of otherwise good soldiers who
won't abide Christian morality -- as did DADT -- but rather, requires embracing
LGBT immorality, it will destroy the military, and ultimately, the Nation.
I sincerely doubt there will be any problems following the repeal of DADT. All
of our allies have successfully and uneventfully integrated Lesbians and Gay men
into their militaries without problems. And most American military personnel
already say they serve or have served with Gay soldiers without any problems.For what it's worth, I really don't care if any soldier, Gay OR
Straight, is disciplined or booted out of the military because of inappropriate
conduct when on-duty. That's not what's at issue here. A qualified soldier
should not be at risk for losing his career simply because of who he's dating on
his own time. Under DADT, if Sgt. Mike is dating another man off-base, and his
commanding officer is informed of this and asks him about it, Sgt. Mike can
either lie or tell the truth. Either way he is jeopardizing his military
career.Hold all soldiers to the same standards of professional
behavior, regardless of their sexual orientation, and the military will be able
to do its job just fine. We don't need DADT to accomplish that goal.
Bravo to Star Parker for identifying the root cause of our decline as a nation,
our immorality. Things will not improve economically. Our nation will continue
see an increase in natural disasters as we abandon God's standards. When it is
bad enough Americans will repent.
"And I believe, along with George Washington, who stated this clearly in
his farewell address to the nation, that religion and traditional morality are
critical to the maintenance of our free society."But even
George Washington hired a known homosexual, Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben, whose
military training methods at Valley Forge were largely responsible for
Washington's subsequent successes in the Revolutionary War. Washington promoted
Steuben to Inspector General. He became an American citizen. The
German-American Steuben Parade is an annual parade held in numerous cities
across the country. Some of Steuben's training methods are still used today.
Birth or choice (it's birth, I never chose to be straight) it doesn't really
matter. What people do in their bedrooms is not my concern. As long as it's
consentual adults, it's none of our business. If you want to go impose your idea
of morality on others, then go find a country that's like that. Iran could be
one, they've got that theocracy thing going on.
"From my point of view, I'm feeling increasingly like a minority in our
country. Not because I'm black, but because I am a Christian."Oh for Pete's sake! Four out of five Americans identify themselves as
Christians. That's a minority? "As a Christian, I believe in
the truth of traditional morality as transmitted to us through our biblical
sources."No, you don't. Fortunately for civilization, American
morality is sharply at odds with the "morality" of the Bible.The Bible sets rules for owning slaves, and never once says slavery is bad.The Bible describes the circumstances under which rape is OK, and never
says that rape a crime - except as a property loss to the husband or father.The Bible says that women may never lead or instruct men, that people of
different religious beliefs must be killed, that eating shrimp is an
abomination, that women mustn't wear pants, that fields can't be planted with
two crops...If you're seeking a basis for your bigotry, you'll have
to do better than citing the Bible, because Christians have already wisely,
sanely, chosen to ignore most of the Bible's "morality."
Cause for concern is also that as we increasingly accept homosexual behavior as
teach that it is normal, we increase the numbers of people who believe they were
born gay. New research has shown that genetics play little role in homosexual
expression. Environment creates homosexuals or illicits homosexuality. Activists have been loudly pushing certain concepts upon us, and these
concepts are harmful. They do their own research, misrepresent facts, hire
protestors, work in shifts on Newspaper comment sections, etc. There is
much information about this available. Check narth etc. Crafting Gay
Children is an interesting article for propaganda efforts (a little biased, but
good information).I know many wonderful gays, and have gay family members
that I love, but, through research, I now feel they would be happily married in
eternal procreative relationships if it were not for propaganda efforts
(activists were trained in Utah by a leading Canadian activist, ex-Mormon,
anti-LDS propagandist, who publishes attacks on Mormons and Joseph Smith in
Newspapers and other media, and helps run worldwide anti-LDS hate groups). Love gays, but promoting it is not compassion, it ruins lives: increases
violence, death, suicide, addiction, prostitution, etc. Again, check narth.