Utah delegates vote no; undocumented students say bill gives them hope
Why does Utah offer LOWER in-state tuition levels to ILLEGAL aliens when LEGAL
American residents are forced to pay HIGHER fees?Where is the
justice in that?And, please, don't give me any sob stories about
it's not their fault. I'm not asking if it's their fault they were brought here
by law-breaking parents, I'm asking where is the "justice".
You know that it is going to pass. It is funny, but Anne Coulter, a new
Catholic, is against this DREAM act but the Catholic church prays for
immigration in the rosary. The LDS faith is for immigration because of the
immigrant converts to the faith. It is only the Jews in Israel who are against
immigration (and wisely so) but the U.S. will force Israel because we give
Israel so much money.
From Andrew: "While the Democrats and their progressive cronies are playing
favorites with people who have broken the laws of the United States the hard
working American citizens who are legal are getting pushed to the back of the
bus. I can only assume it is because the Democrats need to create another
generation addicted to the government handouts thus preserving their
power."From Teafortwo: "The DREAM Act is a nightmare. It
is treason. It is amnesty. There is no reason to provide a path to citizenship
for illegals who have chosen to bypass the existing, legal path. Taxpayers will
now be forced (even more than they already are) to subsidize criminals with
their tax dollars. Furthermore, it will just encourage more illegal immigration
as more people learn that they will be rewarded for coming here illegally and
breaking our laws. Rewarding criminals for criminal acts is insane."=================Children, who were brought here by their
parents, are not 'criminals'. Citizenship for these children (not their
parents) in exchange 2 years of military service OR 2 years of college -- which
they have to pay for as any other student would -- is the sensible,
compassionate thing to do.
The DREAM Act is just one more piece of astonishingly bad legislation that
rewards criminal wrongdoing while at the same time punishing those who do the
I could support this if it meant in-state rates and mostly free education for
white Americans too. But it will not because they may not always vote Democrat.
I could support it if they are required to learn english, have
extensive American history and social studies requirements, and be required to
study the Constitution and take an oath to uphold it. But it does not require
any of this.I would support it if included paid but mandatory public
and or military service. You come to love those you serve, they should serve our
nation before we give them all the goodies.I would also consider 2
years of public service for every 4 years of education we provide them. It would
be fair and they would be paid during the service that may lead to life long
jobs.Every illegal who gets free education should be matched by a
legal citizen getting free education too.And lastly, they need to
pay hefty fines and be on probation for entering and staying illegally in our
country, screw up and break other laws and your gone. But it does not do that
either, this is a VERY BAD BILL.
CWEB. You are wrong on so many levels I can't even begin to enumerate them.
Why don't you try crossing the Iranian border and see how far you get?
Dream Act my foot. It is a nighmare act. This is a democrat party ploy to
attract more voters. Why don't we get some of these TSA people down on the
border, as in shoulder to shoulder and pat down and get paperwork on these
lawbreakers coming across our borders? These people are not immigrants at all.
What is wrong with the media and the other bleeding hearts calling these people
undocumented immigrants. Hogwash.
Please! No more "these are God's children as well". With that kind of
thinking, why should we punish ANYONE who commits a crime? After all, we're all
God's children..... sheesh. Secondly, to those who would say,
"It's better to educate them to help them become better citizens because
let's face the facts.... they're not leaving", I'd say..... wake up and
realize what they really want. I work in construction...... the
illegals that are on my jobsite don't WANT to become Americans. They don't WANT
to be citizens. All they want is our money. End of story. Let me say that
again.... all they want is our money! Try, for one minute, to wrap your minds
around that. They don't care one iota about our economy. They don't
care one iota about you and me. They only care for themselves. That's why they
come here illegally. Please don't treat them like they're your 3 year old child
who doesn't know any better. They know how to work the system. They're doing it.
We're allowing it and I'm tired of paying for it.
The Dems still don't get it. We are broke. You can't continue to try and buy
votes with a credit-card. Where do these people (term loosley used) think the
money comes from...?Tax & spend. Tax & spend. Tax &
A "dream" for the illegals, a nightmare for the rest of us. The libs
won't be happy until the U.S. is just like all the other 3rd world countries. I
grew up 40 miles from Juarez, Mexico, and places in Utah are beginning to look
more like Juarez all the time.
@Poqui: "The fact is that we have a large population of disenfranchised
people in the United States that aside from being born abroad know no other
culture than the one they were raised in."That doesn't mean
that they should be handed goodies such as are contained in the Dream Act. Let
them make beds in hotels and pick fruit, jobs that Americans refuse to take.
They don't need to go to college to do those jobs.And for sure no
amnesty. What amnesty does is encourage more illegals to come here for the same
treatment. Something we don't need. We already have 15 million unemployed and
more like 20 million if you count underemployed... all of whom we need to get
employed until any illegals get work here.Just think, if we could
remove the 15 to 20 million illegals in this country taking Americans' jobs and
let Americans move into those jobs our economic problems would be begin to
rapidly recover. But no. Our leaders in the government would rather have our
economy struggle for years to come rather than do anything about illegals
occupying our country and sucking up our jobs.
Paying tithing also makes NO logical sense.One must realize that our
nation and state is blessed from God, and as we are kind to others and keep his
commandments, we will be blessed...even if it is not logical.These are HIS children. They need HELP. Turn you back on the
"least of these" and you turn your back on the Lord."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."Feed
the stranger, clothe the naked, care for the sick--unless it is NOT convenient.
Illegal immigrants are the people the Lord was talking about--are
they not?Maybe it makes no sense to you, but based on
"faith" it makes complete sense to help these people who have
nothing--while we have everything!
This is disgusting!
How pathetic these "Dream Team" flash mob people are, with their puppy
eyes asking for sympathy. If I see them while I ride the bicycle in
downtown SLC, with them holding signs screaming for passage of Dream Act, I will
be sure to give them thumbs down sign and shout "Boo! Boo!" to provoke
these selfish anti-American fools.President Reagan made a stupid
error in signing that amnesty bill into law in 1986, which only compounded the
illegal immigration crisis, with more illegals jumping the border to demand
amnesty or else.Illegals and their "legal resident for chain
migration" conspirators are what they are: selfish parasites, demanding
amnesty repeatedly.If Dream Act amnesty is granted, then we can
expect more illegals to come in hordes. The passage of Dream Act will only erode
the stability of the Republic to the point of collapse and dissolution. Look at
California. It will be "gone" by 2016 (5 years from now) as I predict.
California was prosperous with rule of law enforced just 5 decades ago, and now
it is on its way to collapse courtesy of unmitigated liberalism (communism).
Another end run by liberal bleeding hearts who never think with their head but
their gut. When the kids are legal they can apply to make their parents legal.
This act will become a magnet to every teen south of the border. The Dems just
don't think about the consequences. And you think the illegal teens here are
assimilated into the american culture? As a former HS teacher for 18 years of
these teens you are wrong, most of then have not and will not assimilate.
There are very sophisticated networks, right here among our Utah immigrant
population, that continue to smuggle more and more illegal immigrants into our
state. Why do they continue to come? Because the illegal immigrants that are
here are sending messages back describing how easy it is to get here and how
much support they get once they get here.We have revolutionized our
education and healthcare systems here in Utah to accommodate this influx.We seem to agree that we must stop future illegal immigration. To do
this, we must BREAK these networks. Passing this DREAM act FEEDS these
networks, and exacerbates the problem.
The government only cares about staying in power and Latino votes ensure that
Democrates stay. I am still trying to finish college and get no help from the
system, because I work. The citizens of this country are getting the shaft by
those in power. I believe in compassion, but this is not the solution.
Citizenship first,including renouncing Mexican citizenship, then resident
This is just another attempt at the Obama administration to further destroy our
country and our economy, which was started by GW Bush. What kind of insane
government would promote the invasion by a foreign country with millions of
poor and/or criminal element into this country? I guess the only answer to that
would be that our "elected leaders" just want to reshape us into
submissive 3rd class citizens who are just as poor as the mexicans that are
flooding into this country unchecked.Shame on any congressman or
senator who supports this amnesty in disguise. And shame on the deseret news
for their obvious liberal bias on every story regarding illegal immigration.
Please keep in mind that nearly 40% of our college education is subsidized by
the state through our state taxes. The tuition and fees we pay only cover about
a third of the expenses. Therefore, there are different rates for international
students.So we have the Federal Government trying to mandate the
states to subsidize the education of undocumented=illegal immigrants. This is
such an inherent contradiction to what the Feds tell us about states identifying
The real question is, do we want the illegal immigrants here illegally, or do we
want them to participate in the military, go to school, and train them selves to
better our society. The truth is that illegal immigrants are not going
anywhere. We might as well give them the opportunity for education, give them
an incentive to join the military (which needs more recruits), and then atleast
they will have a positive impact on society
It is not "undocumented worker" its Illegal Alien! Please realize the
only ones who like this are the ones who are illegal, namly the one outside ESA
CWEB- The DREAM Act applies to people up to the age of 35. Kids? Get real.
Furthermore, the parents who brought the kids will be allowed to stay. The DREAM
Act is just another act of amnesty for criminals that will inevitably lead to
more illegal aliens coming to this country, and, inevitably, another amnesty for
Let's see here...the Democrats just got hammered in an election so what it their
solution? Make all "undocumented Democrats" legal to vote. More people
on the dole to keep the Demos in power.
Epic fail. This bill will fail in the Senate and once the Dems lose control of
the House in December, this dream will be laid to rest. Finally. I
am so happy that the Demos think that giving amnesty to lawbreakers is more
important than supporting our economy, stopping the largest tax increase in
American history, and solving other truly important issues. Do they not know why
they lost so badly?
The fact is that we have a large population of disenfranchised people in the
United States that aside from being born abroad know no other culture than the
one they were raised in. To deny them the opportunity to continue to flourish
in their adopted country is selfish and cruel. This bill is not perfect but
it's an attempt to address a very real problem in our country that cannot be
solved by simplistic phrases spouted by angry voters.
John Stewart Pill @ 6:56- Please. You cannot expect people to take your argument
seriously when it is based upon a quote from an extremist like Thomas
Friedman.Secondly, I would be willing to bet that most of those students
listed were either legal residents or native born Americans. And I'll bet none
of them came from Mexico or points south. And lastly, who cares? The Rhodes
Scholarships have become as meaningless as Nobel Prizes and the Academy Awards.
They are far more about promoting politcally correct, left-wing ideas and
propaganda than about true excellence.
"House approves DREAM Act"Shame on them.
1. Amnesty is forgiving someone of wrong-doing... THESE kids did nothing
wrong--therefore, it is NOT amnesty--it is mercy toward those who have no way to
correct their situation, they are being used for politics! This should bother
any Christian, shame on the Utah Delegates!2. You all base your
opinion on immigration on FEAR. Your fears should not dictate action to help
your fellow man...especially these children.3. Your actions are
like passing by the beaten man and not helping...so much for the Good
Samaritan--the Lord must think, "why did I even bother to give them my
parables and say love one another, etc, etc, etc.? It only fell on deaf
ears." 4. Your fear shows that you think YOU earned your
blessings and wealth, that it DID NOT come from God, and that you feel your
freedom it a right, not a gift. 5. I am now ashamed of my fellow
Utahns, Christians and those who propose to be Christian, for the very thought
is a lie--shown by your actions and opinions.6. Adult immigrants
have a way to fix their immigration, kids do not.7. Hatch has not a
The DREAM Act is a nightmare. It is treason. It is amnesty. There is no reason
to provide a path to citizenship for illegals who have chosen to bypass the
existing, legal path. Taxpayers will now be forced (even more than they already
are) to subsidize criminals with their tax dollars. Furthermore, it will just
encourage more illegal immigration as more people learn that they will be
rewarded for coming here illegally and breaking our laws. Rewarding criminals
for criminal acts is insane.
@ John Stewart Pill, no matter how you like it, or how many pieces your monitor
is in, the law is the law. You can't get around it. They came for the jobs, the
jobs are gone, it's time to go home. It happens all the time in the business
world. They should be happy they had the opportunity to come here and boost
their earnings greatly. Now it's time to follow America's wishes. In
a poll that asked if we wanted forced deportation, or self deportation or
amnesty, amnesty was last, then forced deportation, the choice by far was self
deportation like the Arizona law would accomplish. I don't see
American workers asking for a hand out because someone came here and drove down
their wages illegally.
Amnesty by any name smells just as bad. I could maybe see it for veterans, but
not for students and definitely not for their families.John Stewart
Pillhow many of those names you list belong to ILLEGAL immigrants? How
many of those names you list even belong to immigrants as opposed to the
children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of immigrants? And
unfortunately, while the vast majority of the illegal immigrants in this country
are hispanic, none of those names appear hispanic. While I applaud the hispanic
culture for its work ethic, graduation rates among hispanics would seem to
indicate education is not as highly regarded within that culture.
Lame ducks seeking padding for the next election. As some wrote, there is no
vision and the duck is really lame. The British Isles, specifically England then
France and Germany are convulsing and hemmoraging because of this economic
boondoggle.See what happens when Americans try this in Persia or
You reported the Federal deficit reduction through increased earnings of $2.2
billion over the next 10 years. Senate's version $1.4 billion.But
you left off the true cost in the same study. A 5-20 billion dollar hit to
food stamps, welfare, and medicaid. I would like to see reporting,
not editorializing through omission. The fact that it's true cost is a boost to
the deficit is relevant.
Some of these comments are ridiculous. They talk about what the "law"
is, and what is "legal" and "illegal." In case you haven't
noticed, Americans make their own laws. And we're trying to decide what laws to
make regarding immigration. The debate isn't about what the law currently IS or
ISN'T, it's about what the law SHOULD be. No one is saying these people are
legal. What we're doing is trying to decide what to do with them. If I see
another comment saying "The law is "x" therefore there should be
no debate," I'm going to throw my monitor out the window.
The lame ducks have struck again.They suffer from short-term memory
loss.The midterm elections were about changing direction and listening to
the voters.DREAM has lost its public support yet they are full speed ahead
with a bill that has failed multiple times in the past.Sort of reminds you
of Obamacare, doesn't it?
This is a bad bill that will give amnesty to most illegals that are here now.
Once they get amnesty they will start pressing for family reunification. Each
hispanic immigrant brings on average 5 people from their home country once they
are legalized. (based on the past amnesty program in 1986 and current
immigration trends). Within 10 years we will have over 100 million new
immigrants to this country. America as you knew it will be no longer. Where
are we going to get the water and energy needs for 100 million more people???
This is a sad situation, but the blame is on the parents who brought these kids
here illegally. These kids should have a lot of anger toward their parents.As sad as it is, it is NOT the responsibility of the American people to
make right the wrong that has been done by their parents.It's all
very sad and I could probably go along on the basis of military service. But,
just going to college should NOT qualify someone for American
citizenship...especially if it makes it possible for these people to sponsor
relatives who have also come illegally.I think it will probably go
down in the Senate. There's no end to the havoc these Democrats can wreak when
you give them the chance.
I grew up in the inner city of Ogden. The house we lived in didn't even have a
bedroom. We were poor and we struggled for years. My mother (single at the time)
had to sue UTA to become the first lady bus driver in Ogden because they
wouldn't hire a woman. Funny thing is; I have always been looked at as the
fortunate "white" boy with opportunities. It hasn't been a
"DREAM" for me but I have fought for everything I have today. This propaganda is just a political demonstration. Perfect timing for
the Bush tax cut talks.
This legislation is a sham. I'm disapointed that this paper would carry another
liberal sob story. Here's the facts: they don't have to graduate, most will
be going to school on the tax payer's dime, but worse, this will bring about a
flood of illegals. Once in place, illegals from all over the world will enter
our borders, attend college at least on paper, and then they will be able to be
citizens in a short time and of course, vote Democrat. The latter is the real
purpose of this measure.
Legal or illegal, considering our lazy youth, these "Dreamers" might
be the best hope our country has. Just look at this quote from Thomas
Friedman:"If you want to know whos doing the parenting part
right, start with immigrants, who know that learning is the way up. Last week,
the 32 winners of Rhodes Scholarships for 2011 were announced Americas top
college grads. Here are half the names on that list: Mark Jia, Aakash Shah,
Zujaja Tauqeer, Tracy Yang, William Zeng, Daniel Lage, Ye Jin Kang, Baltazar
Zavala, Esther Uduehi, Prerna Nadathur, Priya Sury, Anna Alekeyeva, Fatima
Sabar, Renugan Raidoo, Jennifer Lai, Varun Sivaram."
Do not need this type of one sided "news."It is either legal or
illegal.Color me cancelled.
Andrew, I appreciate your comment and I've wondered the same thing
exactly. (I wonder if this comment will get printed for the exact same reason.)
DesNews has become a support group in the way they portray the stories about
illegal immigration problems. I can't remember the last story I've read where
it's portrayed the illegal as just that.... illegal. The stories they print
about other criminals don't seem to have the "forgiving" overtone that
the stories about the illegals seem to resonate. Why not interview an individual
like you and me about the passage of the Dream Act? I guarantee our perspectives
about how this passage will affect OUR lives is totally different than how this
story was. I'm not looking forward to passage of ANY bill that supports amnesty
in any sense. These illegals don't bring more money into the economy. They steal
it from the LEGAL families who would help the economy just as much if their
wages could be rasied by not having to compete with the illegals wages. I applaud all the Utah representatives for not supporting it.
Here are some costs I found. The bill is expected to have 1-2 million people
sign up for it. With 1.5 million, the estimated costs are 6.5 billion per year
for schooling ($6,000 per student federal subsidies).The cost of
processing, administration and running back ground checks will cost minimum
$2,000 per student ($2 billion). (students can be arrested three times and spend
no more than 90 days in jail). After 10 years, the congressional
budget office estimate that their increased productivity will give the economy
$2.3 billion. However at the same time, they would be eligible for food stamps,
medicaid and welfare at a cost of $5-20 billion dollars (Congressional budget
office). The congressional budget office expects more than half to
drop out, but they still will be able to stay in the country and work for those
10 years. That's a cost of 8.5 billion the first year, and 6.5
billion each year after, plus the cost of new applications. In return we lose
2.7 - 17.7 billion after 10 years (per year)
I have hope that our senate will reject this attempt at amnesty for millions age
12-35 and the under age children's parents. It's gone way beyond it's original
intent, and would stop most immigration deportations in this country for many
years. It has so many holes in it, that courts will be filled with
This bill is open ended, it's not a one time deal. It's a billboard
to the rest of the world that America is open to illegal immigrants. You can
come here and get a college education for your child. Then they can sponsor
you.It's a shame we are paying off those on unemployment to be
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, "Its funny the whatever the government names a bill turns out to be the
exact opposite effect.The federal reserve act. It is not federal
nor is it a reserve.The Patriot Act- is very much as unpariotic as
it comes.The Health care bill - is so unhealthy is should be the
Black Plague bill.The dream act is more like - the dream is over
act. Yea for more deficit spending. Inch by inch we always move in
the wrong direction.
oh come on make em all legal citizens, you never said a thing when you bought
that tyson chicken or built those nice houses in Spanish Fork canyon. alot of
these people were invited by the greedy in the beginning which brings up a
similar pt of how the pioneers who are going to be flooding Missouri someday
will be recieved. We can't bus them all back and our borders are far from secure
so the dilema was started by the greedy to begin with.
Search the Internet for S.729, the bill that comes up for a vote today in the
senate. This bill is amnesty for over half the people illegally here. Anyone 16-35 can apply, and all children age 12-18 that are attending a
primary or secondary school cannot be deported. That means all families who have
a 12-18 year old child just received amnesty, as their children can't be
deported. A disgraceful act by the Democrats, they are no longer the
party I supported for years.
This is another bad bill in a long line of bad bills. There should be opposition
to this DREAM. While the Democrats and their progressive cronies are playing
favorites with people who have broken the laws of the United States the hard
working American citizens who are legal are getting pushed to the back of the
bus. I can only assume it is because the Democrats need to create another
generation addicted to the government handouts thus preserving their power. What
is even more disgusting is the person the DesNews focused on is an illegal. It
appears the DesNews has become Utah's sanctuary newspaper dedicated to touch our
hearts with the sufferings of illegals who should not be here in the first
place. If you want to be here then do it legally. You do not get to come into my
home and dictate how I rum it because you are uncomfortable. The law needs to
mean something. I wish the Democrats and the DesNews would get that.