Geoff at Dayton, WY: "If LDS would admit they are not Christians but are
another religion alltogether [sic] then I would have respect for them and
possibly vote for one. Until that happens the LDS church is just another con
job."I like how you impugn the motives of LDS. You believe
they know they are not Christians and they are intentionally trying to deceive
people as to their true identity; as opposed to them being sincerely mistaken in
their beliefs. Very Christian of you. So, if the LDS would admit
that they are liars and con artists, then you would respect them and might vote
for them. Interesting. You respect admitted liars and con artists and would
choose them to hold public office. Why do I get the feeling that you are the
one doing the con job?
Geoff at Dayton, WY: "The LDS church is not Christian, and in it's short
history has never been considered Christian." That seems like
a very unchristian attitude to take Geoff, especially for a true Christian like
yourself. I think the Savior said "judge not, lest ye be judged." I
think Christ is the one who will decide who is Christian and who isn't.Geoff: "suffice it to say that along with Christian Scientists and
Jehovah's Witnesses the LDS church makes claims to be "the Real
Christian" church. That urks me to the bone..." So what?
You apparently make the same claim yourself, do you not? Or are you prepared to
confess that your church is NOT "the Real Christian" church. I find
it incredible that a Protestant would be bothered by that claim, since every
Protestant church in existence is a break-off of some other church which it
found to be in error and thus "not truly Christian." There are
literally thousands of Protestant denominations. They obviously can't even
agree among themselves what is true Christianity and what isn't.
The next time George Stephanopoulos asks Romney whether Arab leaders would be
put off by Mormons' belief that Christ will reign personally in America, perhaps
he could rejoin that they would find some comfort in the thought that Zion will
be built in America and not in Palestine!
adding to my previous comment...I would have a very hard time voting
for someone who believes the Book of Mormon is historically accurate. There is
zero evidence for that claim. Unbelievers would say the same thing to me about
Christians who believe the Bible is historically accurate, but they would have
to ignore the mountains of scientific evidence that backs up much of the Bible.
If mormons would say "Gee, the BoM is a neat book, but not 'true' in the
same way the Bible is" then, again, I would feel differently about them.Question for you who believe the BoM...Is the Koran true? It was also
presented to a "later day prophet" by an angel.So, you can
fire away and call me a "bigot" or whatver, but I think you should
know the truth about why I would not support Romney.Now, as for your
question JM...Christians can answer the question "Who is Jesus Christ"
better than Mormons can, and that is the most important question anyone can ever
ask or answer
As an evangelical protestant christian republican I thought some of you mormons
might like to know the reason some of us would not vote for Romney (or any other
mormon).The LDS church is not Christian, and in it's short history
has never been considered Christian. There are many too many reasons why this
is true to be discussed here, but suffice it to say that along with Christian
Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses the LDS church makes claims to be "the
Real Christian" church. That urks me to the bone (at least two of the
previous comments made the claim). If LDS would admit they are not Christians
but are another religion alltogether then I would have respect for them and
possibly vote for one. Until that happens the LDS church is just another con
One of the saddest things in the Christian world is that so many good Christians
are misled about LDS, usually by a few who sometimes are seeking money for their
misinformation. We could do so much good working together, yet, LDS are
ostracized, very much like early Saints, who were sometimes rejected by those
like Saul, who read Gods word, waited for the Messiah, and couldnt accept that
God would be begotten of lowly woman, live on earth, become man, and be exalted,
never to lay down His body again. Even sadder, some of these Christians on
the DN, reading Ash articles etc, are aware that they have often been misled by
anti-LDS sources, and LDS are closest to Biblical Christians, yet they continue
to promote misunderstanding. I dont think Obama is bad, but I do
believe he is president because of divisions created by conservatives. Grace, cmtman, check FAIR etc, for polygamy, MM? im curious, please inform on
what important questions those called born again can answer better than LDS?
(important to me being: life purpose; Why evil exists, Hell, Jesus suffered,
death, knowledge tree, etc? How: saved by loving grace without effort or
I think Mr. Huckabee was certainly smart enough to know he couldn't win. By
staying in the race, he split the conservatives, and assured the nomination of
McCain. I feel his bigotry against "Mormons" was more important than
his vaunted conservative principles.That said, I kept thinking
"When will they campaign staff let Mitt be Mitt?" The answer appeared
to be: "Not until the concession speech." I can't resist
borrowing a line from the liberal camp, "We lost. The voters are
dumb." The Bush administration appeared to lack competence. I thought the
2008 election would go to the most competent candidate. It turned out to
be a popularity contest akin to electing the prom queen. Now, we live with the
To Billcarson of Mattapoisett, Ma (6:41AM post):So how is Romney
personally responsible for the oil spill in this bay?You're doing an
awful lot of complaining but said absolutely nothing as to why Romney is
personally repsonsible for this oil spill.Was Romney pushing the
barge when it ran aground?You know as well as I do that answer is
Brentbot said ,"With regard to the "cult"issue Mitt believes in
a First Century Jesus Christ, not a Fourth Century (Creedal) Jesus Christ.
Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other
denomination."Roman Catholics are (Creedal) and voted conservative in
November and they consider Mormonism a non-Christian religion,not a denomination
and consider some protestants as "seperated brethren". They do unite
on some social issues. If conservative Catholics unite with Evangelicals Romney
will have a difficult time.
RE: SLMG | 3:55 p.mThe Democrat party has changed since Faust was a
young man.Demcrats are now the party of the FAR LEFT, unions, and
special interests, they are indeed a motley group of leftest
extremism and socialism and special interest.YOu are welcome to
believe what you want about the the demcrats, but they are NOT same party of a
few decades ago.Communists and socialsts have said they no longer
need to have thier own party becaase the Democrats taken on most of thier
platform.TODAY, most MOrmons lean heavily to the right not
necessarily republican, but toward conservatism, because that us where their
values and principle are most likely to be found,That does not mean
there are not LIBERAL mormons, but they are the minority, as they are in the
country as a whole:41% conservative20% liberalthe rest
somewhere around the centerRomney is clearly somewhere around the
center. Romney NEVER flipped flopped in the true sense of the
phrase, but change his mind over time on things like abortion as
he because more mature, knowledgable and experienced, that is not a
Interesting that some of the posts see the problem with Mitt as the media
descriptions of him. The media are not the "base" of the Republican
party. The evangelical right flank is the reason Mitt had to do verbal judo with
his moderate to liberal stances that made him the Bay State governor. No
Republicans are not all evangelicals, but every single candidate on the right
knows they have to have those votes to be viable nationally. If Mitt wants to
win he needs a new coalition that ignores the hard right and captures the middle
ala the current POTUS.
Cats | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 14, 2010 Provo, UT Mormons are heavily
Republican because they believe in the conservative principles of the Republican
Party. I guess it's hard for a Democrat to understand this since Democrats
are just a motley crew of special interest groups who are each out to get what
they can. Republicans are a group of people who are guided by principles they
believe in.Cats, how rude of you to refer to good upstanding LDS
Democrats "just a motley crew". President Faust was a Registered
Democrat was he part of that motley crew? There are tens of thousands of LDS
recommend holders that are democrats. Nothey are not "just a motley
crew." Perhaps you need to travel outside of Utah and discover there is
more to the world.
Anyone who watched the campaign closely could see the subversive attacks on
Mormonism from Huckabee and McCain. A good example was the commercial from
Huckabee that he ran in Iowa that made so many headlines about the cross in the
background and whether or not it was intentional. The part that was missed by
the media was the swipe he took at Romney. In the commercial he called himself
"the true Christian candidate." I remember it clearly and as a Mormon
know that was coded message for evangelicals. Prior to the commercial Huckabee
was behind in the polls and ended up winning over Romney. Huckabee is bigoted.
No doubt about it. Read his history. I think really if asked most Mormons
would call themselves Independant but continue to support republican candidates
because their conservative principles most match their own.
SLMG---"taking a company striping it bare, rebuilding to the satisfaction
of the bankers and leaving many of the employees on the street with no
job." It may be tough to stomach, but I welcome stripping the
government bare, rebuilding it to the satisfaction of citizens and leaving
lobyist,Union Boses, and Carrer politicians without Jobs.
REF: Cats 7:57amObama did not create the financial mess that the country
is in, he inherited it. It is going to take more than one term of the
Presidency regardless of who holds the office to clean up that inherited
mess.Everyone is goes on about what a great financial manager Romney is,
they should do a little research and they will find he is not a builder but a
raider of companys. Romney is known for taking a company striping it bare,
rebuilding to the satisfaction of the bankers and leaving many of the employees
on the street with no job. Romney does not connect with middle America. Before
someone points out my address is in Australia, let me asure you I am an American
citizen with blood that runs red, white & blue.
Mitt needs to do one simple thing to be electable: switch political parties.
This would be one of his more minor flip-flops.
Mormons are heavily Republican because they believe in the conservative
principles of the Republican Party. Evangelicals do NOT control the party, they
are just one group of people who also tend to be Republican....and they are NOT
the majority. I guess it's hard for a Democrat to understand this
since Democrats are just a motley crew of special interest groups who are each
out to get what they can. Republicans are a group of people who are guided by
principles they believe in. Whether or not Evangelicals like
Mormons is irrelevant. It's principle that keeps most Mormons in the Republican
As a Latter-Day Saint, I was torn during the 2008 presidential campaign.I would have liked to support someone of my faith for President.
Governor Romney's family was a plus. At the time, I liked his efforts on health
care in Massachusetts. But I found his flips on issues very
disappointing. Being successful as an elected leader in his state probably means
you need stands on issues that might not help you with the GOP base.But when your views when running in that home state do not jibe with LDS
doctrine and then you modify those to be successful with the national GOP base,
it creates a problem for you with voters of all stripes...including Latter Day
Saints.I supported McCain.Then McCain selected Palin.
Big Mistake.He should have chosen Romney. It's the economy,
Stupid.But McCain couldn't bring himself to get past his own
anti-Mormon attitudes....or disdain for Mitt's rise to prominence following the
Salt Lake Olympics.You see, McCain, whose Senate committee had to
approve the funds to bail Salt Lake out of the Corruption City Games, felt it
was he who saved the Olympics -- not Mitt.
Fantastic article, but the writers forgot MaCains give away of primary votes to
Hickabee in Virgiania just to torpedo Romney. They also didn't discuss the Salt
Lake Winter Olympics where MaCain was the driving force to make us look bad
including the trial of the Olympic Committee leaders. It took the jury 30
minutes to come back with a not guilty verdict. I wish Fox News would dump
No money, private or public need to be wasted here on a project or study. Mitt
(or Huntsman if he ran) is a Mormon and that just doesn't jive with the
Evangelicals. I've always wondered why Mormons are determined to stay with this
party when they viewed as the evil step children at Thanksgiving dinner,
relegated to the kiddie table in the basement.
George Romney didn't suffer at all because of his religion. He got killed by
the press when he switched his position on Viet Nam saying he was
"brainwashed" by the Generals. The media cartoonists had a field day
with soapsuds around Romney's head and Romney never recovered. Of course, he
was right about Viet Nam. As opposed to his dad who was widely
admired for his straight talk, Mitt comes across as willing to say and be
anything just to get elected.
Perpetuating the notion of Mitt - JFK parallel speeches is one instance where
the media ironically paints it in Mitt's favor. However, the two speeches were
perpendicular, rather than parallel. JFK explained in no uncertain terms that he
would not be swayed by religious leaders in governing the country. In contrast,
Mitt's main point was how central his faith was to governing - a faith that puts
a lot of emphasis on listening to ecclesiastical leaders. For those that judge
(rightly or wrongly) a Mormon POTUS as something to be wary of, his speech
magnified the concern.
He's a flip-flopper.He's mormon.
Yes, Mitt has business experience (and so did his Deputy Dawg, Meg Whitman).Government is not a business.You can't bust up the
government, sell off the debris, and then re-incorporate it in a tax haven like
the Cayman Islands.Mitt would be great at outsourcing the government
to India.As an LDS friend of ours said "I'm not voting for him
because he's Mormon." But said friend knew nothing about Romney,
other than the 2002 Olympics.He knew nothing about Mitt's liberal
record as a governor, or his health care legislation.
Every intelligent person reserves the right to change his/her mind.
Unfortunately, that has become characterized as flip-flopping for Mitt Romney.
In addition, Massachussetts health care was passed by the
legislature and many provisions were vetoed by Mitt. His veto was over ridden.
He didn't agree with many provisions of the law. However, that's a subtle
distinction that most people can't seem to get.I hope he can be
elected president. Things are so desperate now that we really need a man like
him to get our country out of the mess that Obama has created. However,
religious bigotry is a very hard thing to overcome. I hope he can do it.
With Mitt Romney it wasn't just about religion. But when the Latter-day Saints
are portrayed negatively in the media it says more about the media than it does
the Church. Since the truth is its own defense, fair-minded people eventually
learn whom to trust.I haven't heard much about Senator Reid's
membership in the Church being used against him.
Look at the ongoing oil spill property damage lawsuit Mitt left behind in
Massachusetts ! Mitt Romney was the 70th Governor of Massachusetts
from Jan 2,2003 to Jan 4,2007. During his one term the Buzzards Bay oil spill
happened during April 2003 . On April 27, 2003, eight years ago the
Bouchard Barge B-120 hit an obstacle in Buzzards Bay, creating a 12-foot rupture
in its hull and discharging an estimated 100,000 gallons of No. 6 oil. The oil
is known to have affected an estimated 90 miles of shoreline, killed 450
numerous bird species, and recreational use of the bay, such as shell fishing
and boating.Since the 2003 oil spill the US Coast Guard has appealed
the 2004 Massachusetts Oil Spill Prevention Act and one Massachusetts property
damage lawsuit has dragged on for eight years. Republican Mitt Romney is laying
the groundwork for a possible White House campaign in 2012, hiring a team of
staff members and consultants.
I have no reason to dispute this study, but it is only one factor among many as
to why Romney did not succeed in 2008. The study is incomplete and presents
only one slice of what happened. Romney did not connect with the voters for
many reasons. He seemed stiff and less than authentic. He cannot connect to
the middle class because he came from the privileged class. He has a history of
flip-flopping and his positions were never clear. And in listening to his
speeches since 2008, I'm not sure any of that changes. If he pulls a McCain and
tries to be something he is not, he will lose again. I have my views on how he
should present himself, and it is not in running from his record.
I am sure the anti-Mormon angles were a major factor in derailing Mitt. But he
also did not run a stellar campaign that grabbed voter's hearts or minds. In a
year when voters were leaning more moderate, he was a newly born conservative.
He is not a compelling speaker but whatever he channeled in his dropping-out
speech seemed to have more passion and come from the heart.Romney
should run on his strengths which are exactly what the country needs: a smart
"turnaround" business-savvy leader who will do what he says (unlike
Obama) and get us back on track with a balanced budget through reduced taxes,
smart healthcare legislation and a Reagan-like sense of values.If
people were to see Romney and his family under the spotlight again as a leading
contender or as President, much of the prejudice would melt away.
My wife and I were leaning toward Huckabee but that all ended with his bigoted
comments about Mormons, Satan, and Christ. There are good and bad people of all
faiths. What makes a "Christian" is how they treat others not how
their beliefs are different from others.
Mitt Romney has the right qualifications (the only one with non-governmental
(Bain, Olympics) leadership experience, a deep-seated faith, a vision for this
country's future, and an exemplary personal and family life. He won most of
the 2008 GOP debates.Mitt has the organizational skills to help run
a campaign in the general election and run the country. Mitt, who believes in
free enterprise, would appeal to the Independents and some Democrats for his
unique qualifications in these times of economic disaster brought on by the
Democratic PartyWith regard to the "cult" issue, Mitt
believes in a First Century Jesus Christ, not a Fourth Century (Creedal) Jesus
Christ. Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other
denomination, according to a 2010 Pew Forum poll. 11 of the signers
of the Declaration of Independence were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who
insist on a narrow definition of Christianity are doing our Republic an
A gallup poll showed that people in general are more willing to vote for a
mormon than a 72 year old (mccain) so it's probably something else than merely
anti-mormon stuff. Maybe Republicans didn't like Romney-care (after all, it's
very similar to Obama-care), or the fact he's called himself more liberal than
Ted Kennedy. Maybe he lost because of his perceived total flip-flop on issues.
If you want a key factor, then look at that.
He's mormon.Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Evangelicals didn't vote
for him. That's why he lost. Enough said.
I wish the media could be re-educated, and the evangelicals would keep their
twisted comments to themselves. Mitt would make a great president. He's smart,
he's very experienced, especially in financial matters, and I believe he would
do a good job if given a chance.