Where were all you law-and-order fanatics when ALL the politicians over the last
40 years, Repubs. and Dems. alike, decided to turn their heads and NOT enforce
the laws that you are all so self-righteously citing? This country rolled out
the welcome mat, posted Help Wanted signs on the boarder and watched as they
came in by the tens of thousands every year and did next to nothing! (Reagan,
Bushes, Clinton and all the rest). Now in all your hypocritical
self-righteous indignation you want to throw them all out! They came - no
problems, they raised families - no problems, bought homes, became an integral
part of our society and now you want to throw them all out! The law meant
nothing then, now - it's the holy grail! After what this government
has done (or failed to do)- we owe these people at least a shot at some kind of
amnesty. The Church's position is right on. Enforce our immigration laws at
the boarder like we should have done for the last several decades. Then deal
humanly with those who've been here long enough to establish lives here - like
the church recommends.
Compassion yes- absolutely. One of the most compasstionate things we can do is
send them back, and revamp the laws making it easier for them to come here to
live and work - legally!They come here illegally, and they are at
the mercy of slum lords, unscrupulous employers, and who knows what else. We
need to quit encouraging that by stopping the rewards to those who break the
laws, and revamp what we have on the books so it is easier for them to come here
- as LEGAL citizens/guest workers who pay taxes and aren't afraid to call the
cops on criminals.
It is pretty easy to say that the LDS Church supports the Utah Compact. They
had the opportunity to sign off on it and did not. Let's compare that to the
Declaration of Independence back in July 1776. The signers knew that if the war
was lost that they could all be tried as traitors to the Crown but chose to sign
it anyway. You want to talk about moral principles? That is putting your
beliefs front and center. The First Presidency SHOULD HAVE signed the Compact
and did not.
3 scenarios, alternate endings.1. "But judge, I was rushing my
pregnant wife to the hospital."2. "But judge, I was
escaping from a neighborhood gang."3. But judge, my children
are starving."Judge Sandstrom: 1. Dang speeder.
You may never use a hospital again. Your new child will remain there and your
wife must choose between you.2. Thats your problem. Just go
away.3. Serves you right. They're probably anchor babies.Judge Justice W. Compassion: I believe in the rule of law, mercy won't rob
justice. Therefore . . .1. You did endanger innocent drivers.
I'll fine you, but will also allow you to work it off. It's not in the interest
of society to further burden the working poor.2. Its legal to
defend yourself. Please detail the conditions that led up to this incident so
they can be reported to the proper authorities and decent families can live in
peace.3. You can work off the damages. As a preventative I'll
send you to a program on how to work within the system. I hope your children
grow up healthy and educated enough to pay our Social Security.
"Latin Leaders Praise the Compact". Now that is a surprise! These
are the people who march in the streets, waving foreign flags, demanding rights
for illegals. Just once I would like to see them march in support of LEGAL
IMMIGRATION and support all ethnic groups of the world to immigrate legally, not
just "their" ethnic group. Smacks of.... dare I say it? If I do this
won't be posted. The PC police will get me.
*** "Do you think WilliamA would want to be deported if he was her?"
***No, I would not want to be deported. But then if I stole a car -
or my parents had stolen one for me - I would not want to have it taken away,
either. That's entirely different from the question of whether I *should* have
it taken away.There are people who want to immigrate here - tens or
even hundreds of millions of them. If we don't defend our laws and our territory
where will it stop? How many illegal immigrants before you, too, realize that it
Part of my family came here legally from Mexico. It's not that difficult if your
willing to wait your turn. Many of those who don't wait are here for the jobs,
and plan to return with a nice nest egg. Also there are probably several million
here on green cards, that have been here for 10 or 20 years, that never have
applied for citizenship. They don't intend to. We can't give amnesty
to 12-25 million people. It would cost the country 1-2 trillion dollars.
Deportation is much cheaper at 94 billion, and it removes the incentive for
others who think about coming here illegally in the future. I hope
everyone in Utah realizes that these people do not speak for the entire Hispanic
community. Studies done by the PEW institute show a growing number of Hispanics
that want the laws enforced.
To littlebitI agree with you. Do you think WilliamA would want to be
deported if he was her?Infact I would like to ask Mr Sandtrom and people
that want a hard stance on immigration this.If you came here when you were
10 over 15 years ago for example, you married a US Citizen and had children.
would you still support your hard stance immigration bill?Please Mr
Sandtrom. If you read this answer it for us.What would you do?
*** "She doesn't even speak spanish anymore and she was forced to leave
after her most recent attempt to get a visa was rejected. What is this lady
supposed to do in a country where she doesn't even understand the
language???" ***Um, learn it? Kinda like her parents presumably
learned English when they came here? And she has an advantage - she spoke it
until she was at least 8, and probably longer. Funny you seem to think they have
no problem learning English and adjusting to life here, but somehow moving in
the reverse direction is impossible.There is nothing cruel or
incompassionate about enforcing a reasonable law and safely repatriating these
people, including your friend, to their legal countries of residence. Over 100
million people LIVE in Mexico, pay the bills, feed their families, and all the
rest. Believe it or not, you don't have to live in the United States to have a
happy, productive life. You wouldn't want to be an Ugly American and suggest
otherwise, would you?
@littlebitYou do realize that many laws are immoral and unjust. Look at
some of the people being deported. There is a Mexican born lady in my ward that
came to Utah when she was 8 years old. She doesn't even speak spanish anymore
and she was forced to leave after her most recent attempt to get a visa was
rejected. What is this lady supposed to do in a country where she doesn't even
understand the language??? The law needs compassion and you need to understand
that. Too many good people are being deported and thrown out of their homes
while people watch from a distance unaffected because they refuse to see how
this new legislation will hurt others. Wake up people we need reform but
not without compassion!
If we want to understand the true costs of unlimited immigration, all we need to
do is look at California. Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that one of the
main reasons for California's continued budget problems and outright bankruptcy
is immigration? The self-appointed "leaders" preaching to us about
immigration act as if we just need a few nice sounding platitudes and we won't
notice the real impact of immigration. The Utah Compact? I urge the
legislature and the governor (you know, the leaders we actually elect) to just
say a big "NO"!
I was at my son's school on Veteran's Day. The school had a short speech about
Veteran's Day and afterwards all of the students in the class of 26 clapped. All
except 3 hispanic girls. On the sly, I asked them why they didn't clap and they
told me that they are Mexican and not American and proud of it. All three were
born and raised here in the States. You don't get to see this type of behavior
on the Eastside of town which is where most of you "compassionate"
people dwell. Sorry to all of you Veterans for the disrespect of the "New
Generation" of Americans. Or should I say Mexicans?
If Tony Yapias and the LA RAZA crowd who want to turn Utah into Juarez are for
this compact, then I think Utahns will be overwhelmingly against this.
Those making the money off of immigration have spoken. Those with a political
agenda emboldened through immigration have spoken. What is there about this
approach that will end illegal immigration versus encourage it? Our national
government refuses to enforce the law. It is up to the states. I wonder if the
Obama regime will sue Utah for its approach the way they have obscenely sued
Arizona. Arizona has set a good example and we should follow suit. Mass
immigration at this point in our history serves no useful purpose except to
enrich some while suppressing the wages of others and creating enormous public
Compassion is something we can all agree on isn't it? Even if it means amnesty,
right?If not, then how many of us have refused a warning ticket from
a policeman and insisted on the real thing instead?Of course when it
comes to ourselves, we can all agree that compassion is a good thing. Isn't it
about time we extended this sentiment to others?
I agree with Say No to BO. I understand that the LDS Church is between a rock
and a hard place, because there are members on both sides of the border.
Certainly they care about all members equally, regardless of race or
nationality. However, it becomes confusing when we are told in scriptures &
by leaders that "we believe in obeying, honoring, & sustaining the
law", that "the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of
allowance", and that we have to be honest in dealing with our fellowmen.
How can sneaking into a country without legal documentation, working using a
fraudulent or stolen ID, & accepting social welfare & benefits that they
aren't legally entitled to be considered so insignificant that they are still
worthy of church callings & temple recommends? How can there be a double
standard of obedience? What became of obeying laws until they are changed,
& working to change those we don't like? Like "Say No to BO", I'm
By all means let us be civil in this debate. Let us civilly fine anyone who
hires an illegal alien 50,000 per incident. Let us civilly arrest anyone here
illegally and fine them the same amount. Let us civilly notify anyone here
illegally that they have 90 days to get out and go home. If they don't
go let us civilly round them up put, them in jail, and then send them home to
where they belong. We must be civil and respectful through the whole process.
When we put them on the plane let us civilly tell them that since they came here
uncivilly without respecting our laws to not bother every coming back again.
Wow! Most of these coments remind me how much hatred there is for a people only
trying to servive and feed there family.Most normal people with balance
and fairness in there lives will support a bill to keep families togeather and
to forgive people and help them better their lifeSeems a small part of the
republican party has really got a hatred for illegals. I guess they didnt like
Pres Reagen after all.Sandstroms bill doesnt have a chance to pass.The poor boy looked like he was going to cry on tv the other day after the
statement from the church came out.Love and compassion as well as
forgiveness will triumph hatered and ignorance.
Glad to see the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints endorsing this.
Should help people use reason when dealing with other human beings. It's
impossible to deport every single illegal immigrant like many of you would have
happen. Stop the bleeding through the border first.
Praise or hate it, the folks it targets are still criminals. Catch, prosecute
and deport. Prosecute all those who help them for criminal conspiracy. Prosecute
all who hire them. Get the message across loudly, come here legally or get out!
I believe this country is a blessing to the world. I believe God designed it to
be a blessing. I believe deeply in the words inscribed on the Statute of
Liberty Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses . . . And right now
Mexico is a lousy place for the have-nots. No opportunity, no way to make a
better life for yourself, corrupt, dangerous. And virtually impossible to come
here legally unless you have connections and money already. If I had been born
in Mexico, right next to the freest, best country on Earth Im not ashamed to say
I would have found a way to come here. But I was blessed to have been born in
this country. My ancestors decided they wanted a better life and came here.
Period. I understand we cant have open borders. In fact we should
strengthen them. But legal immigration should be easier. For those already
here, who have established a life here, have had children here, have been a
decent members of society, who have done exactly what most of us would have done
in their shoes, I dont see deportation as the only alternative.
Let the hate begin!!!!Inmigration doesn't work at all, it's
impossible to a Mexican (typical Utah example you always use)or
"hispano" to get a visa with the requirements you have now, for ex: a
lot of money and properties, are you kidding me!!!My wife and I left
USA, having family there(citizens and residents) but the law didn't help us to
stay there with them.By the way, while we were there we paid taxes
and health insurance.
I joy with those who really have reason to rejoice, those from southern
countries, in the Utah Compact and the statement from the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints.
The free movement of people for reasons of family visits, tourism, research,
labor and countless other purposes in north America needs to be promoted and
fostered. Illegal immigration deters this. Additionally, the compact is
mistaken in maintaining that it is solely the Federal Government role to enforce
and protect borders. This simply is not true, it is the responsibility of each
state and the Federal Government. The Federal Government has the exclusive
power to naturalize (grant citizenship) to such visitors and immigrants. Each
state should pass laws and rules that defines how their citizens, businessmen,
religions, governors and police are and should be involved.
Boy am I confused! On Thursday the Church joined the Utah Compact chorus with
their exercise in situational ethics.Then today I attend the broadcast and
receive my new handbook.I quote:"Members who emigrate to any
country should comply with applicable laws."...and "Church
members who refuse to...pay required income taxes...are in direct conflict with
the law and with the teachings of the Church. Such members may be ineligible
for a temple recommend..."...and "Members should obey, honor,
and sustain the laws in any country where they reside or travel."So,
which is it?
I agree with this article. I think we should show more loving compassion... as
we kick their buttocks out of the country.The folks that should
receive the most compassion are those standing in line to enter as legal
immigrants... those who are willing to obey our laws and to learn to speak our
language. That's where we should show compassion.------------@DeepintheHeart 6:54 a.m."Amnesty doesn't have to mean
granting everyone who came here illegally automatic citizenship."That's what most illegals want... just to stay here and work... and send money
home to their families... until they can get their families moved here, too.
All they want is a foot in the door."What about the right to
work and live here without voting rights, but with all of the same requirements
the rest of us have, like paying taxes in your own name?"Sorry,
but we don't have any jobs for illegals. We currently have 15 million
unemployed Americans sucking up billions in tax revenue as unemployment
benefits... money that we have to borrow from China.
That Compact is special interest at its best.
I am offended that Utah Compact co-opted Veterans Day for cheap political gain.
They even chose 11 am as their starting time.It is a despicable trick to
those who died preserving our freedoms.
BroJoseph: The notion that Sandstrom's law is a "hate law" is a
LIE.As for these Chamber of Commerce and Sutherland types in their
suits and ties who conceived and signed this "compact" in the name of
"compassion" (hah!), I am reminded only of that ancient warning of
man's potential for utterly boundless greed, profiteering and corruption, and
the terrible problem this would create for society at large: "It is easier
for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into
the kingdom of God." (Mark 10:25)
How ironic is it that all of these "leaders" stand to make a profit in
some form off of illegal immigrants. In my opinion true leaders to not
negotiate laws, they obide by them! Self-serving folks would be more accurate.
The illegals need to go home. We need to enforce the laws that we have. The
compact is pointless. The people are tired of this mess and we will vote to
clean it up.
You people calling for automatic deportation of anyone in the country that is
here illegally are not realistic and your claim to being for strict enforcement
of the law is almost comical. Ever try to talk a cop out of giving you a
speeding ticket? Ever ignore a parking ticket? Got any un-returned library books
hanging around? Cheat on your taxes, maybe? How about zoning laws; do you obey
all of those? Every one of you 100 percent "honest in all of your
dealings"? Amnesty doesn't have to mean granting everyone who came here
illegally automatic citizenship. What about the right to work and live here
without voting rights, but with all of the same requirements the rest of us
have, like paying taxes in your own name? Would that bring the Republic to its
knees? Crime needs to be punished, but let's be serious about what's a real
crime and what's a status offense. As to citizenship, I think everyone has to
get in one line, and those who do so legally move to the head.
Pack all of them up and get them out of this country! You don't to split
families because they can all leave together.
I agree with John Pack Lambert of Michigan. People who think the Church hates
Mexicans are very uninformed. Come to the Church History Museum to see the
Latino exhibit and you'll change your mind about that.I continue to
be astounded at the general feeling of hate and fear and yes, racism that
abounds in this country. If you watched the CBS evening news last night you
would understand why so many Mexicans try to escape for a better life. I am
saddened by the problems with the drug cartels. Read the book
Enrique's Journey, also. Yes, we don't want undesirables in our country, but
"Undesirable" shouldn't merely be defined as someone who has a Spanish
Re: ". . . 64 percent of Utahns agree with the premise of the compact
calling for a civil and compassionate approach to immigration legislation. .
."Here's betting the number is much higher than 64%. But many
of us have come to the realization that "civil and compassionate" have
become liberal code words for "open borders" and "winking at
lawbreaking."Of course, we all want our actions to be civil and
compassionate. But we can't lose sight of the fact that the most civil and
compassionate action we can take is to root out corruption, consistently
enforcing the law, without fear or favor.Or, in other words,
obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
This compact is unconstitutional and conflicts with federal immigration laws
that Utah cannot rewrite. This is a slap in the face of every immigrant that
ever came to this country legally and with honorable intent to become americans.
These illegal mexicans are here in Utah and the United States with
dishonor in their hearts and souls. These Mexicans are not immigrants and are
foreign nationals occupying the territory of Utah and the United States and
should bear the discrimination of every law and america for their crimes and
criminal intent. These illegal Mexicans in Utah have declared the American
people their enemy, why give them a hug? These business leaders have
lucrative profiteering and financial reason to keep illegal aliens in Utah. It
suppresses wages, they pay cheap, and they help illegal aliens get welfare and
other rewards for being illegal mexicans.Our elected officials have
every reason and duty to their country and citizens who elected them to toss
this compact in the trash and uphold the laws they were and are elected and
swear to uphold. No sanction, no quarters, and no love for illegal foreign
nationals who think they are immigrants.
Other media in the state are reporting that Archuleta (Utah Coalition of La
Raza) and Frank Cordova (president of Centro Civico Mexicano) believe the church
should of signed the compact, and all laws should be put on hold. Archie Archuletta commented that You have to see it as a mountain. That
mountain is the high ground of morality. And, so far, weve had some people that
have reached that top and the LDS Church is taking steps to reach it, Archuleta
said. We see the moral high ground still has to be climbed by some groups.It seems those of us wanting a lawful society are not moral yet.
Hate laws such as those promoted by sandstrom will open the doors for racial
profiling as we have seen in State and Local offices, using private and personal
information to abuse and belittle.Hate begits hate. Remember the Good Samaritan,
the alien, the foreigner who helped the citizen in distress. There is a parable
in this.When you hate your neigbour, in your time of distress, you will find no
solace but retribution of a just God.
Perhaps Yapias, who stated in the SL Trib article that he didn't think the
Church went far enough didn't like this statement:"We
acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its
borders. All persons subject to a nations laws are accountable for their acts in
relation to them."
I think they should highlight more centrally in the article that The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints endorsed this statement.I am sick
of having to deal with claims that the Church hates Mexicans and favors their
deportation just because the sponsor of the Arizona bill was a Mormon.
I praise those who obey our laws.
At least someone is speaking out for more truth and right. Something neither
Democrats or Republicans have done.
Its quite discouraging to see the top law enforcement official in Utah meeting
with (any group)to try to find a way to circumvent the law!
They will accept no enforcement except amnesty, in 2010, 2020, 2030.....
There is a group of "compacts" that all citizens of the United States
agree to that makes this "compact" irrelevent.That group
of "compacts" are called the USCA, or, in laymens terms, -United
States Code Annotated (laws of our lands).Its those pesky laws that are
ALREADY in place and just need to be enforced.Soon the Sandstrom
bill will simply reinforce the fact that illegal aliens are breaking the law and
need to be arrested.
Illegal immigration is the problem. Those here legally are not the problem.We cannot allow for any kind of amnesty whatsoever lest those in line
for legitimate citizenship will be cheated and the incentive for other illegals
to come will be enhanced. We can't have that. Illegals who wish citizenship
must leave and get in line. Those illegals who do not wish citizenship should
be asked to leave.Further, we now have 15 million unemployed
Americans which is costing this country billions in unemployment payments out of
our non-existent tax dollars. If just the 10 to 20 million illegals were not
here taking Americans' jobs our unemployment would return to healthy levels and
our economy would once again soar.These points are no brainers.
Can't see why our elected officials, et al., can see it.
Will public opinion change because of this? I don't think so. It's the same
pro-illegal groups effort to kill enforcement of immigration laws. America has a right to let in who we want, and send home those who come here
illegally. It seems to be a difficult concept to many.