Counter Intelligence,Point taken. But in my personal experience I
have had dozens of conversations with people on both sides of this issue. And
in those conversations it really did boil down to 'unnecessary hate' vs.
'recognizing that *everyone* is a child of the same God with similar rights'This isn't some issue of tolerance like arguing whether people should be
allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays. This is a basic question of whether our
recently instituted laws declaring arbitrary limits on certain races and
nationalities are wise, reasonable, or good.My ancestors faced no
quotas 400 years ago (yes, nearly all my ancestors came from Britain in the
early 1600's) but because some enterprising and -- genuinely racist [look up the
history] -- California Congressman started enacting racial quotas 100 years ago,
now it is accepted by many that certain peoples will never be allowed to try to
make a living in the United States.This isn't a matter of scofflaws
and villains invading our nation. This is a matter of incredibly arrogant and
bad litigation making it impossible for many to come here legally. Why the
'hate' for those? Is the nation full now?
Part Two:Isnt obey the law of the land a requirement for a temple
recommends? How can the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints allow its
members to break the law of the land without doing something about it like
stating public that its members needs to obey the law of the land and by help
law enforcement do their job? I know families are very important. Families
should be kept together. However, shouldnt we as American demand our
national and local laws to be enforced? If not, what is the purpose of having
law itself? US law forbids illegal entrance into the United States, do it not?
If the church is as saintly as they claim why arent they more outspoken about
illegal entry in the US and helping law enforcement do their job?
Part One:Just to let you know, I am an American Citizen. I was born in
Michigan. My father is an American Citizen. My mother is from Columbia. She came
to the United States legal. She became an American Citizen. She did things right
according to the law of the land. She learned English. She speaks English. She
writes in English. When in public she will do everything in English. She
believes that since you are American you use the language of the Americans,
which is English.She taught my sister and I Spanish. It is not our main
language however we can speak and understand it. We can write in it. However,
English is our main language. The United States is the only major country in the
world that doesnt require the language of the country to be used. That language
is English. For example in Germany, who speak German and in Mexico you speak
Spanish. Why is the United States different? It is because no one enforces the
The Utah Compact does not mention illegal immigration even once. If we can't
honestly recognize what the problem is, how can we solve it?
The compact does not differentiate between legal and illegal immigration. I will not sell my honesty or integrity to illegal immigration. If the
business community wishes to do so, then let them. But if you do use
illegal immigration, you are no longer part of this countries free enterprise
system. You are using public tax money to subsidize your business. A
redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle class to the business
community is not capitalism.
To J in AZ: It does represent a backdoor signing. Which is even more
troubling. Please...step up to the plate and sign off on it, don't just say you
agree to the ideals in principle. The First Presidency should sign off on it
"They have sided with the consensus view of pro-growth free-market
economists who recognize that immigration actually creates jobs and
revenue." Possibly true, but illegal immigration has accelerated the rate
at which the distriubtion of wealth has become more and more top-heavy. But then
"free-market economists" don't look at distribution.
Note to EMJ:Mark Willes, CEO of Deseret Management Corp. did sign
the compact. DMC is the main business arm of the LDS Church. I leave it to you
to decide if this represents a back door signing of the compact by the Church.
Wow, the vile and hate expressed in the majority of these responses just floors
me.Thank goodness we have a few leaders left who are willing to
speak the truth in the face of 'bandwagon hatemongering'. I appreciate the
Deseret News editors for being willing to stand amongst those leaders.To those of you who have gotten so caught up in the fear and hate and false
statistics about gangs, and crimes, and welfare, I would invite you to do two
things:1) Look at the real numbers. The ones the actual Chief of
Police in Salt Lake City has been providing, for instance. Any numbers you can
verify as coming from an actual in-Utah agency. The number of crimes committed
by even 'illegal immigrants' is lower than their representation in the
population. The number of even 'illegal' immigrants receiving any kind of
welfare benefit is miniscule in comparison to the State programs.
De-humanizing, arresting, and deporting every last 'illegal' immigrant would
literally do nothing to improve crime rates, employment, or welfare expenses.
Look it up!2) Learn what 'legal' immigration entails. Many cannot
come here legally at all. Did your ancestors face such unjust rules?
How about some compassion for a group of people all you liberals are forgetting
about. How about some compassion for your neighbor that used to work as a
roofer or construction worker , but lost his job or business because illegals
came into town and were willing to work for less than minimum wage.And, of
course, they never reported their income or paid income taxes.And
how about some compassion for your other neighbors that have business that are
failing because the now unemployed roofer and construction worker are no longer
buying things locally. The illegal workers send most of their money back to
their home country.Now you unemployed neighbors have had their home
foreclosed and everybody within several blocks just had their property values
dropped because of it. And now you, me and everybody gets to pay your now
unemployed neighbors state unemployment benefits. The illegals never had to pay
into this fund since they were working under the table.Yes, we need to
show compassion in this situation. I want to show compassion to all those that
are harmed or have seen their lives ruined by illegals.
Thank heaven that the sane and thoughtful members of our community have taken a
solid, rational stand with this Compact. May those that oppose it see the light
and abandon their simplistic, unkind, thoughtless and hardhearted approach. Praise the Lord! This compact is like a rising sun of righteousness
after a cold night of fear. May reasonable and good people everywhere embrace
its good and right principles. May mercy and justice continue to be the
hallmark of our state.
Should we expect anything else from the state's number one pro-illegal
immigration, pro-amnesty propoganda machine?Trying to be as civil as
I possibly can, I hope Deseret Media and every signer of the Compact fails in
their self-serving efforts on this issue. Clearly, the public does not support
you (no matter how much you twist and distort things.)I hope the
nation eventually gains control over its borders and enforces existing laws.
The LDS Church did not sign it. End of story. They may "approve" of
it but they did not sign it. What does that tell you?
Please Sign the compact
Immigrants are one of the great strengths of this country, they always have
been, and nothing has changed.Immigrants have also always been
denounced by many Americans throughout history, thinking they take jobs.This is simplistic thinking. Immigrants also buy goods and services with
the money they earn. When they buy cars, rent houses, buy groceries etc, it
requires that others be hired to provide for these needs. All of this activity
actually expands the economy.This is why immigration doesn't
contribute to un-employment. And in the case of Mexican immigrants they
actually decrease unemployment, because there is such a high level of
entrepreneurship among them.Instead of trying to get an psuedo
economic education from talk show hosts, tea party members and minutemen, people
ought to take a class in economics, from a real professor with a real education.
Those in high places in our state who have done this, agree, immigration is
"We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The Savior taught that
the meaning of neighbor includes all of Gods children, in all places, at all
times."This is about real people, and how we treat them and how
self righteous we consider our selves. The facts are that "illegal
immigrants" do contribute to our society and they do not have a higher
crime rate than native born citizens, but that is not the real issue. the real
issue is how we deal with our "neighbors".
A handful of people with questionable motives, who have been pushing for open
borders for a very long time, sign a document making arguments (often
contradictory) they've been making for almost as long. Among those people, the
former and current publishers of the Deseret News.How many articles,
many front page, has the Deseret News published related to this fancy press
release?The Deseret News is inventing the news, not reporting it.And the people who signed the document? The same types of people who
were running this country in the run-up to the greatest financial crisis in
nearly a century.
This is largely supported by pro-cheap labor lobbies. I will gain their respect
when they move from their Federal Heights neighborhoods and move to the west
side of the valley - where a large part of the population are illegal
immigrants. I will gain their respect when they put their kids in schools where
English is a rare language, and everything in those schools is spoken and taught
in Spanish. I will gain their respect when they walk in neighborhoods where
graffiti is plastered everywhere from violent gangs such as "Sur 13".
Laughable proposal by the organizers behind Utah Compact. Who benefits from
immigration "reform"? Amnesty or allowing illegal aliens to run free
in the state, thumbing nose at the law?The talk about
"Immigration" and "Immigrant" in Utah Compact mean illegal
alien. Who benefits from this publicity charade? Nothing but traitors who love
illegal aliens to encourage to 'displace' native population (including violent
& property, crime, welfare fraud/abuse, id theft, and job theft). Treason have heavy price for the backers of illegal immigration. I hope
Republican legislators have common sense not to fall for the politically correct
bait that is Utah Compact. Instead, they should ignore this charade and press
ahead to pass Arizona-style law. Illegal alien advocates do not care about the
rule of law, they want empowerment for illegals to 'rule' Salt Lake County area.
Pro-growth = pro-cheap labor.
This editorial is quite a stretch, even for the DN. Actually Forbes would, most
probably, express admiration for our business community if they worked to insure
that EVERY business has the ability to compete fairly. When some employers get
to take advantage of workers for 3-4 dollars per hour, and others meet the
minimum wage, (not to mention paying workmens comp., etc)for their employees.
Employers who employ the illegals have a DECIDEDLY unfair advantage.I
don't think Forbes magazine sees that as an admirable trait.
To Sensible Middle,Your arguments that immigrants are making some
sort of valuable contribution to our economy are totally off the wall. Most
don't pay taxes and they cost us ten dollars in social costs for every one they
contribute. With millions of our own people out of work we don't
"need" them by any stretch of the imagination. Your argument
that they are doing jobs we don't want is ridiculous, they have taken over most
construction jobs that Americans very much used to do. They don't help
the national debt, they helped cause and it and they are bankrupting states
across the nation. As for the family argument, that is the most
ridiculous of all, they left their families voluntarily to break the law and
come here to take what they can get and send it back. This is a cash drain on
the economy. They can have a family reunion any time they want in their own
More pro-ILLEGAL immigration propaganda from greedy business interests who want
their cheap labor even at the expense of the well-being and integrity of the
United States of America -- and all dressed up in suits and ties, to boot. A
One could interpret the statement in the compact that it supports policies that
protect families to be a direct request for laws that strictly enforce illegal
immigration. Given the largest segment of such individuals leave their families
at home when coming here. I agree it is shameful to support any policy that
encourages the breakup of families in their native lands to come to this country
and be exploited in doing so by business, politicians, and religions.
The Utah Compact fails to even say the words.Nowhere does it talk of
"illegal aliens" or even "undocumented."It uses the
term "immigrants" and "immigration" throughout.It is a
shell game at best. It implies that the problem is xenophobia. And that is
exactly what they want people to believe.But the Compact people are
wrong.May I suggest that the Compact people have a vested interest in
maintaining this de facto amnesty. Their interests may be political or
economic...or even keeping the pews filled on Sunday.
How can anything presented by the Utah Repubs be seriously considered without
addressing the BUSINESSES that are breaking the law and hiring these
illegals?If The Repubs really care about fixing this problem, then
they'd come up with a comprehensive law attacking those businesses who are
breaking the law. Once the issue with employing illegally is
addressed, this issue of illegal immigration will resolve itself. People won't
come here if they can't find jobs.But then again, those who give
away taxpayer money to their business buddies to the tune of $13 million could
care less about actually resolving this issue. They're just creating a lot of
smoke so that us lemmings think that they're actually resolving this issue.
Interesting editorial. I also believe immigration should be handled at the
federal level and I vote with that in mind. Our representatives should take the
voice of their constituency to Washington and seriously get to work on securing
the border. It's hard to blame the immigrants for coming here with the hope of
providing for their families when this shoddy immigration policy allows for the
mess we are in. Having said that it is also disconcerting to see the disrespect
by "illegals" when it comes to our laws. I wish the LDS church would
address that along with the cry for compassion. It always feels so one sided.
Leave it to Utah Republicans -- who spend a lot of time sitting in classes at
Church yakking about charity being the pure love of Christ -- to protest
compassion and civility in dealing with the poor. This is known as
"irony." It is also known as Pharisaism (look it up).
Nowhere in the "Utah Compact" is the word "illegal"
mentioned. Nowhere in the DN editorial is the word "illegal"
mentioned. We are dealing with illegal immigration, not immigration - two
different subjects. Ultra Bob asks if there a place to sign in
disagreement with the Compact; Yes, support the forthcoming legislation that
will be introduced in the 2011 legislative session - strongly support Rep.
Sandstrom and his colleagues in their efforts to prevent Utah from becoming
another California. The Compact will cause Utah to become a magnet for illegal
aliens leaving Arizona. How about some compassion for the law-abiding CITIZENS
of Utah?In contrast to the so-called Compact, the City of St. George
Mayor and City Council issued a Proclamation on October 7, 2010 strongly
opposing illegal immigration. The Washington County Commission has issued a
similar document. These are the kind of "Compacts" that need to be
given credence and support.
It makes sense that a state that is pro family and pro business would be for a
form of immigration that keeps families together and is good for business.These people come here, not only do they work hard and dilligently at
jobs that Americans don't take seriously, they are also consumers. They buy
things and this helps business.These people have helped our economy
grow. Given our national debt, we need a large and robust economy.
The logic expressed here is the same logic that gave us NAFTA, China's
most-favored-nation status, and a variety of "free" trade agreements.
If we look at just NAFTA, for example, we see that none of the wonders promised
came to pass. Jobs flowed to Mexico where Mexicans were exploited. The chaos
in Mexico is, to a large degree, created and aggravated by the "free
trade" policies of the global elites and their minions here locally. The
economic situation in our nation is the result of poor economic policy -
policies that those who signed the Utah Compact seem to love so much. We should
help Mexico and other nations solve their problems in their nations. Importing
millions under the mantra that we are benefiting is an outright lie. We are a
nation, not just an economy. Isn't it time our elites recognize this?
The people will not usually choose that which is wrong. I have more faith in
their judgment than that of those who are convinced they "know
The Utah Compact is simply a fancy advertisement for the continuance and
enhancement of cheap labor policies by the vested business interests in Utah.
The words are useless generalities with no specifics, all alluding
to the acceptance of immigration with out any regard for the legal or illegal
aspects. Utah respects local law because it protects business.
Utah wages war against Federal law because it protects people. I
believe that the words We champion policies that support families and improve
the health, education and well-being of all Utah children are phony as shown by
the actions and polices of Utah with regards to school, health care and general
welfare.When they brag about Utah being a business friendly state,
the real meaning is Utah has cheap labor and the government favors business
financially. Their words free society are a cover up for their
immigration policies. nothing that business does promotes a free society. Is there a place to sign in disagreement of the Utah Compact?
The compact is nice, but the Legislature makes the laws. Did Sandstrom sign it?
It's just some irrelevant symbolism, while the threat of counterproductive
immigration laws is still as big as ever.
When Utah is as bankrupt as California, will we wake up then? Do you really
believe that immigration, legal and illegal, has nothing to do with California's
budget problems? Sugar-coating immigration so that those making the money or
promoting their own particular political agenda is not a public service; it is
the opposite. Immigration serves no glorious purpose in our society. The
future, our children and grandchildren, will pay the price of our current folly
when the middle-class is destroyed and the elites are still singing about the
wonders of immigration. Immigration, pure and simple, is being pushed by those
making money off of it to the detriment of our nation as a whole or by those
whose political philosophies are blinded by ideology.
What a bunch of propaganda. Anyone who signs this thinks they can fly in the
face of overwhelming public opposition. This is nothing less than an attempt to
push illegal alien amnesty without actually having to admit that you are doing
it. This is "shooting from behind a rock" in favor of amnesty and
trying to pretend you don't know where the shot came from. We all need
to pay very close attention to all those who sign this and let them know that we
aren't fooled by it. Let those who sign it know that you are withdrawing your
support from them and that illegal immigration is destroying this state and
nation and they are tacitly aiding and abetting it.
Don't talk to me about immigration reform from Utah's leaders. Where were they
when the Democrats were trying to get it done and the Republicans, including
Utah's delegation, fought it? This is the same immigration reform package that
the Republicans previously endorsed. This compact may have some nice principles
in it, but it is a hollow gesture because the prevailing party here in Utah will
play politics with it.
More pro-illegal alien spin by the DN.